Jon Hamm | Club Random with Bill Maher
01:56:16 Share

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn.com slash results.

LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I've heard the tragic news that you don't drink anymore. That's not true. Oh, great. I did take about a 15-month hiatus.

Wow. That's a perfectly fine amount of time. It's like a reset button. Yeah. Oh, I'm so glad. Yes. What do you have for me? Anything. What do you want? What do you got? This looks nice. This is chilled. Yeah, this is tequila. It's Friday after all. Oh. Listen to this. Minute through the week. Everybody has a tequila company now, right? Is this yours? No, but I thought of a great name for one.

Tequila Mockingbird. I was literally going to say that. Did somebody do it already? No, but it would be amazing. Really? You thought of that? Maybe we should start it together. You know, you take a shot and you bust up the chipper. You know, put something into the thing. My good looks, your acting ability. Right.

Right? Hold on, let me get some. Oh, I'm sorry. You're the worst host in the world. Well, this is long overdue, sir. Yes, it's great to see you. It's great to see you. And great to see that we can actually have a drink together. Not that we need liquor to be entertaining or to entertain ourselves. No.

I have my, I've got coffee, I've got tequila, I've got. Oh, you've got coffee and tequila? That's like an Irish whiskey. Something like that. So you could do a downer and an upper at the same time? You know, coffee I've noticed since I was a little kid, and I think my dad had the same thing, does not, caffeine doesn't make me jittery.

Oh, wow. I think it's the way Adderall is prescribed for ADHD people. I think it just kind of levels them out, although I'm not ADHD. No, also you're just very stern.

sturdily made, I would say. There's something about you that's very, I mean, that's partly why you have such success as an actor. People like to see, I think they said it about Spencer Tracy, somebody who just stands there with a pair of balls and says his line. You know what I mean? It's the kind of guy who has to like

Go through psychological traumas in your real life in order you have some but you don't have to to like do your job Yeah, you know I I read a really great autobiography a biography of Humphrey Bogart

called tough without a gun ah and the title and Tough without a gun it was like he has the crate the craziest story like born on the Upper West Side like in the 30s when the Upper West Side was like he was not born in the 30s He was on Broadway race rate whatever raised in the yeah in the early early 20th century I'm getting my time where he was one of the actors who made the transition when they went from silent to talkies yes and

Is that first generation and what a voice obviously he had that going for him, but he was like a little he was like a fuck-up He went to private school got kicked out. He bounced around and he like most fuck-ups ended up in the theater. They'll take anybody and And it's a fascinating story and and you know differently handsome. I think you could say is handsome challenged and and still what an amazing career and

But, I mean, this, I think, says a lot about how deep women are, like, compared to us. Like, there really can't be an equivalent sex symbol to Humphrey Bogart among women, even though Martha Stewart is currently on the cover of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. Martha Stewart is conventionally attractive. But, excuse me, 81, this war on boners must stop. What? Helen Mirren.

It's in the late 70s. And you think she should be on the cover of Strokebook? I think, you know, it's different strokes for different folks, as they might say. Exactly. But, you know, that's...

Okay, I guess that's the correct answer. But I think it's actually shallower to think that you should retain beauty in age. Life is a series of trade-offs of good and bad. When you're young, you're beautiful and not that wise. And then it reverses itself. I think it's actually shallow to think someone should be physically beautiful.

capable of being on the cover of a stroke book at 80. I think you're on to something there. I also think that it's... I always find it funny how the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue tries to reinvent itself every couple of years. Like, we're not...

That's here to it's not it isn't what it is. Like, wait a minute. I think it's exactly what it is. It's exactly what it is. It was always in February. It came out. Why February? Because it's that's the footballs over basketballs in midseason. Baseball hasn't begun. It's kind of like the it's the low downtime in sports. Right. That's when I as a kid, I would watch wide world of sports and they'd have things like ice skate barrel jumping. Right.

Carlin had a great bit when he would do a thing about wide world sports and just start naming all these stupid things like cross-country ballroom dancing, roller fucking. Roller fucking. Yeah, well, that's kind of the Winter Olympics. I mean, but the Winter Olympics has skiing. Yes, it does. Ice hockey. I even got into curling, believe it or not. It's fascinating. Trust me, you spend enough time in Canada, you get into curling.

Which I'm not suggesting is a way of life. What were you doing in Canada? I was shooting movies and television, making prestige television for the people. Have you ever spent any time in Canada? And in Canadians. In Canadians? Yes, of course. But on tour, like a couple days in Calgary, then up to Edmonton, then over to Red Deer. Not Red Deer. Gary Mule Deer? No, Gary Mule Deer.

I barely remembered Gary Mildew. I remember him for Make Me Laugh. Yes. He made me laugh all the time. He was in that generation with, who was the guy? He was the doorman at the comedy store. Kip Adada. Kip Adada.

A big hit. When I first saw him, I was in high school thinking about being a comedian. And I saw him on The Tonight Show. And I was blown away. I think they all were, because he looked like he belonged. Apparently that went to his head a little too much, because obviously-- Well, I remember seeing the video for the song he did. Remember the song he did, Wet Dream? No. No. It was basically a song that was full of fish and fucking puns. Oh.

This is the 80s. It didn't take much. Yeah. But it was a big hit on the radio in St. Louis. And we all laughed because you could get away with the things that you weren't supposed to say because it was...

you know, you were talking about on porpoise or, you know, whatever, you know. I mean, this is what we're talking about. Of course. But they made, because it was the 80s, they made a music video out of it. Of course. And Kip Adada was doing his best kind of Don Johnson white suit. White suit. Looking good, you know. What I remember about him was that Tonight Show, and he came over to the couch, and there was other A-list star, I can't remember who it was, but Dean Martin or somebody, and he looked like he just, I mean, he...

He had a confidence that I assure you I would not have had at that age. And then, unfortunately, drugs. Drugs, goddammit, drugs, John. It's always drugs. I think a lot of people, the world moved on and they didn't either adapt or catch up. It feels like sometimes the whole thing is on a merry-go-round or a treadmill or something and you're kind of like, wait, when did the whole landscape shift?

Why did I not get the memo? Because I feel like sometimes whether you're a comic or a musician or a director or whatever and you start, you're making the same thing that you made or you're doing the same thing that you did. So true. And then the world shifts and it's like, wait, the landscape's different behind me and now it doesn't resonate the way it used to. You've always been really good at that because you stay plugged in and you stay and you talk to people and you engage with people and have...

And I keep basically the same philosophy for 30 years, even though the politics changes, so my audience sometimes changes. I mean, I've lost a fair number of this, what I would call the super woke, and it's good. Don't let the door hit you in the ass. You were no fun to begin with. You have a terrible sense of humor. I think that's... Don't you say, and you tell me, because you have a little more of a sense of what the mood in the room, so to speak, is, but I feel like that...

this particular affliction is waning in some way. Because it feels like it's reached its useful conclusion. The critical mass is like, okay, we get it.

We get it. There is a useful quality to some of what you're saying. The overreaction, overbearing thing of it is absolutely not useful. And in fact, it's counterproductive to your own point. You're shooting yourself in the foot and then wondering why you walk with a weapon. I mean, this is certainly the message I've been putting out there. Whether it's actually happening, the backlash, this is something that comes up. It's so funny you say this. This comes up so...

So often lately somebody says this exact thing to me people I very much respect and they may be right and I'm hopeful about that But there's this idea. Oh, we're seeing the backlash I gave out this award a few. Oh gosh, then we've been on strike for almost a month I guess it was over a month ago called the cojones awards. We invented this thing to give people words for standing up and

to cancel culture. It was literally a brass ball thing. And I gave one to Trader Joe's because there was a threatened boy. You can't say Trader Jose. Trader Jose. And they said, you know what? We don't think it's racist. Go fuck yourself. We think it's funny. So they got one. And by the way,

It is. And it is. It just is. So, I mean, Ted Sarandos got one for sticking with Dave Chappelle for his special when there was the big trans protest against that. So that's an indication to me that if I can have this little award show for people who stand up to cancel culture, maybe that's true. Maybe this is a wave that's coming. But the fact that a few people have stood out and did that

Me does I don't know these people are not going away. I mean the strike we're in now is a good indication of it How everything has become politicized this strike is not just a strike about writers. Of course. It is that and and there is a Definitely a need for a new model with the streaming industry. Okay, but I mean the way they characterize themselves as you know, oh

We can't make a living wage. Well, there are people who actually can't writers are making a living wage So I say it all the time when I talk about how you know, it must be so hard to do what you do I'm like, I'm not a lead miner, right?

You know what I mean? There's a lot of harder gigs. Exactly. And gigs that are less well-paid. Look, I love my writers and all writers, and I am a writer, so I'm very sympathetic. But also, let's just keep it real. And also, let's not make it, but they already did, a proxy war.

for our bigger politics. That's what's different about this strike and the 07 thing. See, this is about like, oh, we must be perfectly right because we're on the side of the working man and then you see like rock bands out there playing for the picket lines and it's, you know, it's,

Like it's Dylan with the, like you say, with... Woody Guthrie in This Machine Kills Fascists. Yeah. I agree with that. That can get a little intolerable in its case. But I think what you said at the beginning is correct. And I think that the only other times that this has happened, and I was having this conversation with a very fancy group of people at some point, but I... You look back at the history of when this has gotten into a strikey kind of situation. No, this. And...

The last time the actors and the writers got together to do this was 1960 when it was about residuals and reruns. 1960. It's when both of them went on strike at the same time.

And that every other strike since then has been at a significant sea change in the industry. In the 80s, I remember this because Letterman went off the air and I was like, what's this writer's strike? What do you mean? I was 15, 16 years old. Yeah, I remember that one. Remember what the reason was? Cable TV. Yes. What are we going to do about cable TV? It's going to ruin television, right? It's going to ruin television. Then what was 2007 about? Or ruin our gig in it.

DVDs home video right gonna ruin our gig it's gonna ruin our gig four years later that you couldn't sell a DVD if it Was made out of gold. So what are we doing now? It's another sea change in the industry and it's an extreme it's gotta it's got to be sorted out and You talk about it as an existential crisis because both sides are saying hey We can't pay the bills and you're like the bills are getting paid and in fact the the C suites are making

tens of millions of dollars in salary. They're not missing a meal. Right. But neither are you guys. Right. So let's all take a step back and understand that you have valid points. Right. Exactly. And that AI is a real thing that ain't going away. Right. It's not going to uninvent itself. No. No. Exactly.

It's just a new technology that is going to be used in support of the human brain. I hope. In the way that word processing. That is such a great dissertation on that. Somebody should write that as an op-ed or something. You're exactly right. There is a theme to this. And that theme is every time the new technology comes in, we fucking shit our pants when we could. And this is what bothers me about this. The governor of this state could do what politicians used to do called jawboning. He could get these two parties in a room and say, listen, I'm the governor of this state.

Figure it out. This industry is a little important to this state. We're kind of known for it. You know, Hollywood making magic, silver screen, all that. In the same way, I bet, not to keep bringing it back to the mining class, but I'm sure back in the old days, the strike busters and the Pemberton guards or whatever they were called, and the miners and crossing the lines and the scabs and the whole thing. I'm sure the governor of Pennsylvania had something to say about it. Of course, of course.

And what he would say is-- - Might not have been the smartest, and he might have had one side over the other, but either way. - What they would basically say, and what Newsom should say is, look, we're not going to do this forever, right? Can we agree on that? Let's start at the starting point. Okay, if we're not gonna do it forever, then at some point you guys are gonna compromise, 'cause I know neither one of you is gonna give up everything. So let's pretend it's three months later.

And this is really where it's going to end up without all this posturing and... All the kabuki of whatever it is. Listen to Weezer play to you on the news. Yeah. Or whatever the fuck. And... No one wants to destroy your sweater. That's a Weezer reference. I remember having the same... This is a similar thing when I was having a contract negotiation for Mad Men. The final contract negotiation. I'm like, okay, now it's time. I've worked under a certain...

expectation of payment and a certain expectation of what the show was doing. The show has wildly exceeded that. Now it's time to pony up. And everybody understood that. And I said, okay, let's go. I said exactly what you said. I said, we can do this for two weeks and

where we go back and forth and you go, "Guys, there's nothing, look, open the book, we don't have the money, we just don't." And I'll go, "Then I won't show up to work, and I'll quit, and then you'll, no, you can't, and it's James Brown with the thing, and I can't possibly go on any further, and then the beat comes in and I throw the cape off and off we go." Or we can cut to the chase. - Right. - And I know what I'm worth, and you know what I'm worth.

And so let's get to there, and then we're done. And it could always be done that way. That's such an interesting analogy, but you're totally right. Like, they both know the number. They both know the number. And yet they can't. It's so sad. Well, and I think part of it is, I really do think part of it is that the studios...

are not in the business of giving up anything. What business is? What business is? That's capitalism. That's exactly what it is. You try to keep as much as you can. I'm going to lie, cheat, and steal to keep my pile bigger than yours. Assuming you're doing the same thing. Assuming you're doing the same thing. That is capitalism. And it...

This is when capitalism runs into the forces of labor. I mean, because capitalism harnesses that part of us which is real and which is always going to be there, it has been more successful than anything else in history for raising people out of poverty and giving them a good material life. And not only that. Socialism did not do that. Not only that. Though we need some socialism. Something to aim for. Yes. Aspirational. It's human nature. Yes.

The whole reason that the woefully underserved and poorer people in this country tend to quote unquote vote against their own interests in the Republican Party is, well, what happens when I hit the lottery? What happens when I'm rich? Because I'm going to be rich.

Sinclair Lewis called them temporarily inconvenienced millionaires, poor people. That's how they thought of themselves. Isn't that great? I mean, it's a great turn of phrase, and it's a great description of that mentality. And-

I always get back to like having done a show for 10 years about the good old days. Right. Yeah. When you, you know, didn't have to listen to minorities. Right. And if you were gay. Right. You hide that under the bushel. Right. And men ruled. Men ruled the world. White, straight men, by the way. Right, straight men. God forbid you're black or any other color. No. It was a lot of bad. The.

Maximum tax rate was 75% right and you know what people still did okay? But you know what else happened roads were clean and they worked great and there were libraries and there were all these social services that existed to help everyone else and children up and Children learned things in school. Yes, we gave up on that thing of teaching children things. I mean, you know why we did Because I don't want to pay for your dumb kid. I

That's what it turned into. Why should I have to pay for your dumb kid? And there's a lot of racially codified stuff in that too, but that's what happened. I don't know if that's true. I think we've thrown more money at the education system

By decade than ever we keep throwing more money at it. That's not what's happening They I've known people who were like substitute teachers and they said you can't believe and these are this is not in some poor school district and Said yeah, the kids all have like giant computers on their desk, which they use to play act to play Tour of Duty or whatever the food my two of my very good friends teach in the LAUSD and

And they have similar issues with the teachers' union and how much waste there is in graft. And not teaching. And it's, yes, there's a lack of motivation for that to happen. Classes are way too big. You're basically managing...

kids that are undiagnosed with a lot of issues. There's language issues. There's millions. Classes are not always... Sometimes classes are way too big. Not in these nice schools. Normally, are they not too big. But like anyone, any kid who's deemed like special needs, and of course, there's been a lot of mission creep on that term. Sure. Okay, any kid who's...

special has to have like a second person i think this person that was telling me about it there was like 20 kids in the class and like eight of them had or four of them or something like that had another person in the class with them this other so there were like five teachers in a classroom of 20 the teachers were over okay not the kids oh that's that hasn't i haven't heard of that no i i will also say though to your to your point about special needs because i

Was raised in the 80s. I went to a very fancy private school because my mom wanted me to go there. Her dying wish was for me to go there. And I was smart enough to get in. And we had enough whatever for me to get in and go. Changed my life. Completely changed my life. Had a beautiful school. Had a beautiful 7th through 12th grade experience. My best friend, who is still my best friend and is going to be the best man at my wedding, went to the same school. And he...

I couldn't get the lessons. And I was like, what's the deal, man? It's like, let me help you out. Let me show you what's up. I'll help you. I just don't know. Turns out he's mildly dyslexic. He has a learning disability. He can't read as fast as I can. Just that. Yeah, sure. His brother, six years younger than him, same thing. By that time, the school had recognized that that's a thing. Right. And his brother sailed through that school like crazy because he had the extra attention. He had the extra skills.

Time and as we were saying before both things are true. Oh things are true When it's this dialectic where you write on have right one thing because the other and that's the problem See like if this was CNN The Democrat well first of all Trump would be on Trump would be on

I'll get to that in a minute. I think they should have put him on. I do too. Yeah, okay. I would have had a different approach to the interview style, but there we go. I mean, I don't blame her that much either, but I did have issues, and I don't want to talk too much out of school because I do a little thing on CNN now, and I love the guy who's running it, and I think he's got a big job ahead of him, and he's doing a good start. But like the panel afterwards, the Trump thing,

that's what bothered me because CNN has got to find a way to find people instead of six people who know I no one has been harder on Trump than me but have been six people all just as soon as it shut the it ends and this is the thing where He is a hero in this room. He did very well with the crowd You can't deny that you can hate him and hate what he's saying I get all that and agree with most of it, but the crowd loved him and

He was getting big laughs, big applause. You could just tell he had them in the palm of his hand. Okay, that's at least half the country. And then you're going to have six people who just come on and just, well, the lies, the lies. Of course, yes, we get it, he lies. You need someone who knows how to talk about this in a way that's a little more balanced, that doesn't deny that, but tries to explain to America why, okay, yes, these are bad things about Trump, but...

Here's why this is even more appealing than what you're selling and why people don't care as much about it as you do. You know, he lies and they're thinking, yeah, but all politicians lie. Now, I would make the counter argument not to this degree about these issues, but

just to start hammering away six people all on the same page. On the same piano key. I can find you people who could be much more interesting talking about this Donald Trump. It is hard to do because he is an incredible liar about the most important things and denying elections. Two things can be true. Right. Those can be bad. Those are bad things. And yet they resonate. And so the dumbest thing you can do

Is tell an audience that they this is and wag your finger at them and say, this is why he's a bad man. Right. And they go, you know what? Fuck you. I don't care. I'm going to vote for him just to piss you off.

As a comedian and host of a TV show and podcast, I get to live in my own little show business bubble. But I had no idea that in the real world, it can now take up to 11 weeks on average to hire for an open job position, even in this economy where apparently nobody wants to work anymore. So if you're hiring for a growing business, do you really have that kind of time to wait?

Well, I've got some advice for you. Stop waiting and start using ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter can help you find qualified candidates for all your roles fast. And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash random. ZipRecruiter can help you hire in a bunch of ways. They have matching technology, kind of like a dating app, but for work. And you can personally invite people to apply with just a click. It's a recruiting tool with 80% of users getting a hit in the first day.

So speed up your hiring process with ZipRecruiter. See why 3.8 million businesses have come to ZipRecruiter for their hiring needs. Just go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. ZipRecruiter.com slash random. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash random. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. We are supported by Lume. Have you heard of microdosing? It's being used more and more by people looking to improve their health.

and performance. And if you look around or watch the news or, God forbid, use social media, there are plenty of reasons to need a dose of something to calm you down. Microdose gummies deliver perfect entry-level doses of THC that help you feel just the right amount of good. Whether you're seeking relief from pain, anxiety, better sleep, a creative boost, or just to relax at the end of the day, or to get through your boss droning on about nothing at work,

Microdose gummies are the perfect solution. And if you want more than a microdose of THC, they also make higher dose gummies that are available in six strains, including strawberry cookies and watermelon sorbet. Microdose gummies are available nationwide. Here's an exclusive offer for my listeners. Simply go to microdose.com and use the code random and save 30% off your first order plus free shipping.

Go to microdose.com and use code RANDOM to save 30% and receive free shipping. Microdose gummies, because being healthy doesn't have to be boring. Go to microdose.com today. Do you like adventure? Check out Expedition Unknown, a podcast with Josh Gates from Discovery Channel. Josh Gates is a member of the Explorers Club and has a degree in archaeology. Panty dropper alert!

On Expedition Unknown, he travels all over the world searching for lost cities, buried treasures, and the truth behind unsolved legends. From the remote jungles of Cambodia searching for a lost relic to the American Midwest to find the legendary loot of Jesse James, Gates wants to get to the bottom of these mysteries. Listen to Expedition Unknown wherever you get your podcasts. You know what? I got to tell you something. You did real-time two, three times? A couple times, yeah. I remember...

You said to me once, you said, damn, I'm going to learn how to do this show one day. And that was you're being too hard on yourself. You're perfectly fine. And that is a different show. Yes. But sitting here and talking to you now, I'm like, oh, gosh, I see what he's talking about. You're a great political, you know, political, social. What? I'm engaged with life. I think I'm talking about the marriage. I'm engaged. That's changed my life.

But by the way, let's not bury the lead. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. And it has changed my life. I feel very, I'm very happy. I see. It's wonderful. You look great. You look healthy. I'm wearing makeup.

You know, I'm glad you're having one or two drinks. I mean, it's certainly, I think it's healthier than being in this, these people who are drunks and then they become a kind of a worst version of a drunk. We've all met that person. Yeah. Right? And some of us have met that person on more than one occasion. Right. Met that person in different versions of that person too. And the fun thing about coming to this show right after therapy, which I literally came

hear from there is these things are kind of recently been talked about but i you know there is a anybody that that examines their relationship to whatever the fuck they use to take the edge off or manage stress or deal with trauma or what have you is is going to come up against okay what what is it doing i used to smoke cigarettes you know because that's what you did because it was cool and then i was like at a certain point i was like what am i doing

I don't like this. But it took me 20 years. It took me as many years, too. And I did it twice. I started smoking when I was 16 because I looked cool, man. And I was playing baseball. And that's what everybody did. And Bad News Bears, Kelly Leak smoked cigarettes. And he looked cool. And he rode a motorcycle. And, you know, give me a break. Got to do it. John, why do you need therapy? You don't need therapy.

I think everybody could use a weekly, bi-weekly, monthly, some kind of check-in. Really? How you feeling? What do you feel? I don't know. Maybe you have it with your friends. Maybe you have it with somebody. I like a non. I have it with me.

I mean, I have it with my friends too. But I mean, look, I'm just talking out of my ass. I don't know you like that. But I just feel like I'm talking to a guy who has a very sound grip on life and reality. It doesn't compute to me why you would need to talk to somebody. But maybe you have demons. I don't know. It's not about demons. It really isn't. It's not that going to therapy is not really about sort of wrestling with these things.

you know, as you say, existential problems. It's more about kind of checking in and seeing where you are and maintaining a presence and a perspective on life. So does the lady or dude, like, have they said things to you that you were like, oh, I was not aware? Oh, okay. For sure. And again, it's a third-party perspective on whether it's relationships, career,

drinking, partying, life, whatever, whatever. And I had a great session today because it was like, I'm in a good place, had a couple things to talk about, talked about them, got some perspective on it. And, you know, it's helpful. I think it's helpful. And I have, you know, look, lost my mom when I was 10, my dad when I was 20. My growing up was a hodgepodge of

parents, lack of parents, family, lack of family, different family, different definitions of family, living by the grace of other people, understanding that I had to kind of self-motivate in a lot of ways. And there's a lot of extra baggage that you carry because of that that's unconscious. But I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but did you ever think, you know, maybe...

I mean, I feel like a lot of therapy is making you dig into things that maybe you wouldn't have dug into on your own or dredge up stuff. Maybe, again, devil's advocate, it's the human mechanism to forget because it's like, yeah, that shit happened and it was bad, but now it's so many years later. I think we're going to get to the same thing about two things can be true. I think there's a very valuable...

Part of living that is forgetting and letting things go and I think that there's a valuable part of life that is Examining things that you have been through. Well, can I tell you a short story to my perspective on this? Yes, it may not add anything but it is so true April 7th of this year. I looked at reading the newspaper and I looked up and I saw the date now and I

Because April 7th was the 50th anniversary of the thing that to this day was the most traumatic thing that ever happened to me in my life. My girlfriend of one year and three months dumped me on April 7th, 1973. And this was so prevalent in my mind, in my life for so long that I used to write a journal like on April 7th and January 7th because that was our first date.

Then I added the other two sevenths though at four times a year, but that was really the Providence of it and for many years This was just so if it wasn't after five or six years I'm sure it ebbed as something that was emotionally there But I still was writing the journal on those days and I would never forget This was the and when 50 came along. It's like oh my god. I wouldn't have even thought of it. I

except I saw it in the paper. And just the idea that I could come from this place where this thing was like my 9-11 to where I don't even remember that it's a big anniversary. It just shows that, yeah, I'll say this about that because it's actually very funny, first of all. Pathetic, you mean? No, I think funny. I think it's funny. I think that that is a...

Supremely human thing. Yeah, and I think I think everybody has a version of that whatever that is It might not be as bold faced as a date, right? But everyone has a moment that they especially from that time of their lives I read a book forget who wrote it about the human brain and it talks about how when we're when you're young and

Up until about your mid-20s, your brain paths, your neuropaths and your synapses or whatever are significantly wider. It's the 405. Right. And so all the stuff that comes barreling down there hits you like a ton of bricks. Emotions and love and comedy and... Right.

all right drama and sadness all of it is so much more elevated when you're that because the because the literally it's a physical thing not to interrupt I'll get back this in one second but that thing about narrow and wide pathways is true of all the things in the body it's why people have your and every problem that's why people have a heart problems you want to keep the passageways

So I've never heard this aspect of it, which is fascinating. So you're saying because the ones in the brain are also wired. Yes, and part of it is that your brain is still developing. And you're still developing the little side streets that are like nuance and other things and other interests and whatever. And now we look like the overpassers.

Van Nuys. It's like a map of Tokyo. We're like Woodstock 99 down there now. But yeah, you're still developing those side streets and things. So it's all going down the 405. Right. And so what are you thinking about when you're 14, 17, 19? Right, right.

Sports, pussy. Pussy. Pussy and pussy. Yes. And, you know, food. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's nuts, but it's true. And it cuts across all sexes and genders and affiliations and what have you. And it is what it is. Like, we are, as you say, at the end of the day, the one thing that binds us all is that this physiology is the same. We are, for the most part, the same.

And I think if we all got back to that and if we could figure out that, you know, it doesn't matter. Reading about this, like, stuff in the Ukraine and how all of the war is happening. You're just like, guys, at the end of the day, everyone just wants to go home. Make sure their kids are safe. Eat and go sleep and go to work. Everyone wants to have a job. And the job right now in Ukraine...

is making sure the Russians don't come in. Not to be glib. And the job on the Russians is like, eh, we don't care. Not to be glib about it or compare these as the same level problems at all, but just on a psychological level, the Ukraine war is exactly the writer's strike, what we were just talking about. It's like you're going to make a settlement, right, at some point. It's not going to go on forever. Why can't we do it tomorrow instead of all this pain?

And humans are not yet able to fucking accomplish that one. Maybe AI can help.

Maybe we'll have trust in AI that it'll just tell us the right fucking answer and we'll all agree. But as of now, that can't happen because AI is programmed by humans. And that's why, have you seen this? It's so funny. AI just makes shit up. Yeah. Like humans do. Like humans do. But like out of whole cloth. Yeah, no. Somebody said they did a whole thing like describe me and the guy was like, and he founded the institute or whatever. Wow.

wow, I'm amazing. No, exactly. It just is, it's a bullshitter. Then it really is human. But this thing about the passageways I find fascinating because like... I think it was called, I think it was a book called The Body by Bill Bryson. Is that name, Ringabelle? No. You ever interviewed him? No, but I mean, you know. He was a... Don't ask me about what I remember. He was, he made his, made his like bones in a...

travel writing. He wrote about Australia. He wrote a book called In a Sunburned Country. And then he wrote a book about traveling through England called Green Leafy Space or something. But he also wrote, he just kind of does these deep dives into very specific things. He's a really funny writer. The first time I was introduced to his writing was when I was in college and had no money and would go to the

bookstore when they had bookstores and I would just read books in there for hours on end because it was free and it was entertaining and he wrote a book called Among the Thugs and it was about following the hooligans for Manchester United like for a season and it was fascinating this was back in the 90s when nobody knew what

that was all about. You'd hear stories. There was no internet. You'd have to look at an English football magazine, which no one had. But it was a fascinating thing of like, wow, man, these guys go hard. Just roving bands. Peaky Blinders with chains wrapped around the thing. For what? I love Peaky Blinders. It's a great show.

Oh, shit. You're killing me, John. You're literally killing me. And I tell you, I'm sure for a lot of women, the image of you sneaking away to read books in the library because you were too poor, the handsome guy reading books, that has got to wet in more panties than scented candles. I used to go to the Walden Books library

in Florissant, Missouri. I used to ride my bike to Walden, my bike to Walden books through Ferguson, by the way. - Oh, famously Ferguson from the-- - From the riots. That was my route and I, unlike most people that are scared and freaked out by black people, grew up around black people. So it was like, oh, this is what Ferguson is. It's where black people live and it's a nice place. - I don't think most people today are freaked out or scared.

You should go to the Midwest. I said most. Fair enough. Some people, yes. I think this country has changed a lot. And some places and some places it hasn't. But I feel like the overriding thing is I am terrified of that which I do not know. And what this great information age that we live in has only accelerated is how much we don't know. And it's not helping people know it more. It's helping them be more afraid of it.

Does that make sense? Yes. But on the other point, I just got to say, I travel this country all the time. I know you do. And you obviously travel a lot yourself. I mean, you're on movie sets in different locations. But I'm just saying, I travel around the country. I feel like I'm, because of everything that's happened, especially in the last three or four years, since the 2020 social justice protests and so forth, I feel like, but even before that, I

I feel like I try to be hypervigilant of noticing, like, I'm just, as an observer, what's going on between the white and the black folks that I see here in the hotel lobby, you know, at the airport, you know, transportation. You just see people at the theater. I just don't see a lot of hate and mistrust among, like, actual people. I think that... You can see it in their faces. Your experience of your crowd and of the people that you're seeing, too, is...

But that's a lot of... I'm not disavowing it. But really, like the Mystic Lakes, Minnesota, is that really that different? Yes, it is probably. I'm sure there are much more redneck-y places. But it's also not, you know, Greenwich Village. Yes, nor is it East Atlanta, nor is it, you know, Okeechobee, Florida. I mean, yes, there are regional differences and all that stuff. My only...

This is my pie in the sky kind of Midwestern optimism, too. It's like I wish people led with curiosity and a wonder about what the difference is rather than fear.

And holding it at arm's length because I don't know what that is. Therefore, it might kill me. Therefore, I won't engage. But see, you're not allowed to do that anymore, according to the woke. So you're describing what I'm always talking about, which is like woke is the opposite of liberalism. It's not building on it. Curiosity about people and their differences, that's out. That's what liberals were interested in. Now, if you ask someone where you're from, meaning microaggression, it's a giant aggression and you're fucked.

It's happened to many people. See, you're not allowed. Don't you think, though, that, okay, I think, I also feel like there's a sliding scale, correct, that certain people get away with in my industry, for example. Oh, totally. You're not allowed to play gay, unless you are. You're not allowed to play trans, unless you are. Right. You're not allowed to play a different gender, unless you are.

So it's a little bit like, okay, not unlike what we're talking about with the writer's cycle, what are we allowed to do? Just let me know. It is literally the opposite of what acting is. Yes. Is being what you're not. But it's worse than that. There's a woman who wrote a book called American Dirt. I don't know if you've heard of it. I have heard of it. Three years ago. It was going to be a big book. Oprah was all over it until she wasn't, as I recall. Because it's a white lady imagining what it would be like

to go through what a migrant crossing the border, a Mexican. And because she's a white lady, you're not allowed to imagine what it's like to be a Mexican. And see, again, opposite. Liberalism is about empathy. Like, no, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes so I can feel your pain. That's traditional liberal compassion. Now that's the sin. So like,

You can believe anything you want. Just don't say that's the thing that's liberalism because I'm gonna stick with what it was I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna have to claim that yeah like empathy liberalism empathy and you want to do this other thing where if I try to be Empathetic to something. I'm not already then I'm the bad person great you have that that's your thing, but that's not what our thing was I

So don't take the name of my thing and put it on your stupid thing. I also feel like, if we're talking again about how pathways are wider, that a lot of this is being run by people that have very little experience in the world. Exactly. And how the world works. Yes. Because it's great when you're 23 and you know everything. And then...

You go into the world and you realize how much you don't know. And you can stand when you're a sophomore in college and tell everybody how everything is supposed to work and this, that, and the other. And it's adorable. But I feel like that's what's happening now. It's being run from the top down by this kind of... Exactly. Not trying to be shitty or even snarky or anything, but just saying...

There's a lot of people where I feel like the realities of the world haven't sunk in yet. And their pathways are a little too Broadway. And they need some side streets. On both sides, for sure. The other side is obviously that because it's easy. And again, it gets back to this idea of let's make America great again. What part? Because we all know what part you're talking about.

And by the way, it's still great. Right. I mean, some of that is true. Some of that is racial. There's no doubt about it. Like for a lot of people, especially poor people, you know, it's like if you were slightly ahead of another group because this was the way it has been. And to a degree, that still obviously happens sometimes. But if you had this automatic advantage, which is, oh, we're both up for the job, right?

I'm white. They're going to give it to me because the other guy up for the job is black. Or the other guy's Italian. Yeah. That's the history of America. Yes. Up until a certain point where, okay, then we changed the law. That didn't mean people still didn't do it. But for a while, it wasn't even against the law. Yeah. Okay. So then, okay, now it's against the law. This is how society changes incrementally. Yes. There is no revolutions, just evolutions. So-

I always just keep saying, let's live in the year we're living in. How much of this is going on now? Now, there are certainly many places where you're at an advantage to be a person of color because the last thing that's cool now is white people.

older, male, you know. So great, I'm all for that. Turnabout is fair play. But just don't look me in the eye and tell me the thing that was happening 30 years ago is happening now or that we're at the same place. We're definitely not the same place. I would take issue with the fact that it's

Not happening. I didn't say it wasn't happening right but what you said don't tell me that the thing is happening well I said to the degree it was 30 years ago or even four years ago and it's what you said like I'm if you look at history and you expect there to be these page turns of like now we're like the Supreme Court decided that racism was over so they got rid of the Voting Rights Act and you're like that seems premature it was and

That was. That seems premature. And that seems motivated by a particularly political and not jurisprudential set of principles.

of criteria. It's totally political. But here's the thing. The reason why Republicans want to stop black people from voting is because black people don't vote for them. The reason why Republicans want to stop anybody from voting is because they don't have enough votes in the country. Well, they would have to suppress the votes among the people who vote for the other party. That's what that's about. I mean, up until the 1920s, black people voted for Republicans.

The Republican Party was wildly different. Yes, but Abraham Lincoln was the first Republican and all the Democrats up until the 60s. Strom Thurmond and Lyndon Johnson pissed all the Southern Democrats off. That's what happened. They were Dixiecrats. They were the ultimate segregationists. A man who until almost the 21st century referred to a microphone as a machine. I remember that in the Robert Klein routine. Speaking of the machine, Saturday...

That's so funny, yeah. But a man who ran against Zach Galifianakis' uncle in North Carolina, who would have won had he not said that...

Because Zach's uncle or cousin or whoever it was that ran was Greek. He said, he's not one of us. Oh, God. Yeah, Greeks. The real insidious crowd that want to give you food. I mean, they're practically Albanians. Like Belushi, another one you got to keep an eye on. No, he was Macedonian. I thought he was Albanian.

I mean, no. Well, yes, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. Yes, you're right. If only there was a machine. We kept it in our pocket. It had all the facts at our fingertips. No, I remember it now. I saw the documentary. Yes, Albanian. You're correct. But... You know, I think it's a... Again, I maintain, and I think it's what's kept me moving forward in my career, in my life, and all the things, the setbacks I've had to deal with, whatever part of my life that I have.

I maintain an optimism about not just my own existence and self and people in the world, but I feel like...

Everyone's like, oh, Trump, it's going to be the end of the thing and that's a wrap. And you're like, or it's going to be four weird years. Right, as it was. And it was four weird years. Well, I mean, obviously the problem with Trump, again, is that it changes just the very nature of the country. So we don't really abide by elections anymore. That's the biggest problem. That's the hard one to take, which I don't think is permanent.

Don't think so. You know I my optimism I do think it is well I think once you go to that step where you don't then it's gonna be a long time then we're not this country will not come back until Charlton Heston Finds the arm of the Statue of Liberty sticking up out of the sand. That's pessimism. I'm off. Yeah, that is That's your liberty to her fuck hard pessimist that is better but

But I truly believe, well, we certainly will not be a democracy anymore. We'll be more like countries where the people in power just use that power to keep their grip on power. Yes. And I feel like that, I do feel like that that was the tipping point on January 6th was certainly that. And this idea that the side that engendered that particular situation was

decided that they were not then going to because they had to say that it wasn't what it was now we're in like Stalin's yeah of like word that we did what you saw pay no attention to the man behind the curtain Like we all watched it I watched it sitting in my office with my jaw on my desk going like but this isn't this can't be happening but see the Democrats mistake with that was to try to pin the whole thing on what Trump said that day to the crowd and

The crime wasn't what he said that day. The crime was the every day after the election when he didn't admit he lost. It was an everyday crime. It wasn't like... I'll go back even further because I watch your show every week and I watched you say, this is a slow-moving coup.

And it's the only way it can happen in the United States. And he was never going to give up power when he does. Right. And he went out the back door. And he's still doing it. And he's still doing it. And it's a bummer that I don't know what's going to happen with DeSantis and all the nonsense that is coming out of Florida. But Florida is at peak Florida at this point. Wow. Why? Were you there recently? No, I'm just reading the news. It's like, how are you going to get in a fight with Disney? That's a losing...

Oh, today they pulled out a billion dollars or whatever. Like, okay, good for business. Bob Iger, God love him, the guy who fired me at ABC. But see, again, so many years ago, it's almost like my 50th anniversary thing. It's like, you know, there was a moment when it was like, oh, ABC, you bastards, just because all the sponsors pulled out, you have to fire me. But

I was never that bitter. And like, I don't even think about it. I've seen Bob Iger out many times at parties. But so, let me put it to you this way. I don't give a shit. And what a badass movie he pulled. I gotta give it to him. And let me put it to you this way, because I think this is a, I think this works as a thought exercise. You were for want of a better word back in 98, 99? When was, when was? That was on from 93 to 2002. 2002. Okay, I was a couple years off.

You were canceled, correct? Literally. Canceled. Well, before it was cool. Before it was literal. The world, yeah, you were canceled, but you were also canceled because, oh, you couldn't trust you. Yeah, that's true. TV, God, no one could be trusted. I can't, where else I can throw him? Right. He's with the terrorists. Look who comes back up. Because what you're saying and what you're doing is actually relevant.

And so there's always going to be a market for that. And so I think that, again, when we're talking about this cancel culture, there were people that deserved to be canceled in some way, shape, or form. The reach exceeded their grasp, I think. Right. And then it became, oh, how did you, what was this? And he said, she said. Yeah. And a lot of people got scooped up in a net. Right. Yes. But.

Overall, the correction corrected itself. And then those people that were scooped up, they're fine. Everyone's doing their thing. Chappelle's not wanting for work. Well, you're picking an example. There are many people who are not doing fine who are scooped up in the net. Who've lost plenty. Example, Al Franken. Yes.

Now, that was a, once again, ridiculous overcorrection. Okay, but I'm saying I could name lots of people who got scooped up. And I wonder to this day, had Al said no? Yeah, he should have. He should have. And I think he knows it. And I think, you know, I mean, I'm...

So fond of Al. As am I. Yeah. I went on fundraising trips to Minnesota with Al and watched him with his constituents in a room in Duluth, in Eden Prairie, in all these places in Minnesota. And it was very clear to me that the guy was like...

Engaged, loved his constituents. And smart. Smart as all get out. And funny. And also a homework doer. Yes.

Not a show pony. I mean, I thought he took it a little too far. There was a long time he wouldn't do it. I understood why. He was a comedian elected to the Senate, so he didn't want to do comedy stuff on shows. And then, of course, after he was out of office, he didn't have to worry about that. I mean, he was a little rusty, but Al's just a great comedian, first of all. But he is wildly intelligent. And you can use that in the Senate. And he could have been a big force by now.

He could be running for president. I said this. I mean, Zelensky's a comedian. Yes. And I said this about that when Trump ran the first time. I was like. And by the way, Al Franken, you could still do it. I don't think the final page is turned on. Well, first of all, just because you're not in the Senate. People, Trump wasn't in the Senate. No. Trump was barely in polite society. I am 100 percent and would endorse that. Yeah.

I said this about... I hadn't thought of that before. Yeah, he could just say, fuck it. There's no rules anymore. No. You can run for president. There's no rules about anything, but especially that. The Rock is thinking out loud about it. Yeah. You know, Caitlyn Jenner wanted to be governor of California. Schwarzenegger was.

It's like when the good rolls dry up, I'll run the world. The skincare world is heavily female-driven and has long been the wild, wild west for men. Whether men can't find the right brand or simply lack knowledge and understanding of it, skincare is something that requires attention.

Luckily, men's skincare has never been easier with Caldera Lab. Clinically proven to reduce wrinkles, fine lines, and signs of aging, Caldera Lab is the leader in men's skincare and is here to save the day. Use our exclusive code RANDOM at calderalab.com to enjoy 20% off their best products.

Caldera Lab creates high-performance men's skincare products and the regimen leads off their product lineup, a twice-a-day routine to transform your skin. As a man, you have to take care of your skin. Plastic surgery doesn't work for men, as I like to say. Then you look old and weird.

Inside the Regimen Bundle, you'll find your skincare dream team, the clean slate, the base layer, and the good. It's an awesome face wash, a daily moisturizer, and then a go-to serum used at night before bed to make your skin look tighter and smoother. Avoid looking like you just came off a bender with Keith Richards and take the leap to skin royalty with Caldera Lab.

Get 20% off with our code RANDOM at calderalab.com. That's 20% off at calderalab.com by using code RANDOM. Take your health to the next level in skincare with Caldera Lab. I was at some fancy dinner again because I get invited to these things and I love going. You do, Mr. Fancy Dinner. And the question came up, like, how is Hillary going to beat Trump? And I said, they should hire joke writers because the one thing Trump cannot take is a joke.

That's true. Well, but if you, if you, I don't know, he tries, because he has the kind of

Playground mentality bully like haha poke poke, but when he gets poked back he likes it He must he must like it because he's always treating about or saying something in a rally about me in a very derogatory way because he's always Accidentally watching this guy is the most devoted accidental viewer I've ever had at UNSNL Yeah that well that I understand why he would because they're actually doing him a

But for him to, like, take umbrage at some of the things and he – you're not going to beat him by being a bigger dick. No. He's got that space very much marked off. And also it's like – it's almost refreshing even though I don't agree usually with what he's saying. Like –

To watch a guy, this is what people love about him, to watch a guy, you just expect a politician to say the political thing. And this guy is like, fuck it. And there is something like... He farts in the punch bowl. Well, he... Like, shithole countries.

As if we all haven't said that. As if we all haven't thought that. As if all the people who came from shithole countries, they weren't offended because they were like, fuck right I'm from a shithole country. Why do you think I came here? Why do you think I risked getting in a fucking, you know, rubber raft or whatever? Uh,

That's why. There's a reason I left. So shit like that, I understand. People are like, yeah, he talks like a person. He doesn't lie and use you. And then other things are just obviously abhorrent. But he's all id. Yes, exactly. Right? There's no superego, as I learned it from Freudian whenever I took. Right. Superego, ego, id. Yeah, it's all from the, you know. All id. I've known actors. The lizard brain. I've known actors like that. For sure. Yeah.

Well, he is...

Yes. At the core, he's an actor. He's a bad actor. You can see the work. You can say, it's so funny. You can see the work. That's all. Is that what they say? Yeah, I'm sure they do. You can see the work. No, he gets results. You said about his CNN thing, he got laughs. Oh, they loved him. He worked the crowd. He worked the room. But I say this about your show a lot because I sometimes wish that you would do your show

Not in front of an audience.

Because I think you would have a more in-depth discussion. Well, of course you would never do that. You're a comic. Exactly. You hate the audience. And you love the audience. And it's for the audience in many ways. I love the audience now. I didn't always. I mean, the audience changed about, I don't know, three, definitely the pandemic had something to do with it. We like had to like get rid of half the crowd because of social distancing during the forever flu. Oh my God. Did you get it?

Of course. I got it only... All right. Which one did you get? I don't want to get into it. You're talking about the vaccine or the flu? The flu. You mean the COVID? I was fine until I got the vaccine, and then I got the vaccine, and then I got it like a month later. I don't want to start the whole thing. I understand the vaccine was very necessary. I'm not trying to put you on the spot. Millions of people would be dead without the vaccine. True. I'm not one of those.

So I shouldn't have been forced to take it. And after I had the vaccine, I think it absolutely had everything to do with me then getting it. It also very well could have been why it was a super mild thing where I barely noticed I had it. Again, both things could be true. If we're running for president tomorrow, you can be president. I'll be vice president. You'll die before me. I love you.

We'll flip a coin. Whatever. But that's why both things can be true. How good a slogan is that? You know who I always love? I love Midwestern people because they don't have, I don't know, there's just something about them that's commonsensical. And this is what Trump's biggest Trump card is. It's like, here's what conservatives always say to me about him. What you don't get is we don't like him either.

They don't like him, although they do in a way, but they feel like he's the thing that stands between them and this other thing where we've lost our mind, where men are having babies. I get it. I know, but I'm just saying that's his appeal. And that's what somebody needs to go on CNN and just be there on the panel to add that note.

To the discussion. I agree. It's always been fascinating to me whenever that happens. It's MSNBC, what have you. It's the same thing on Fox. I mean, watching Fox during the whole course of the run-up to the indictment,

was like, oh, I'm watching Tucker Carlson, and you're like, this guy. You've actually watched it? Yeah. I've never been able to watch. It's rough. Even when I'm on it. Because, again, you can see the work. It's what John Stewart did so great. He was like, this is theater. You're doing a bit right now. Yeah. And he's like, how dare you? I'm this, that. He goes, explain to me. You're wearing a bow tie. Right. How is that not a costume? Right. Which, of course, it was.

And, I don't know, it's telling that that guy got what he got and how he got got was interesting. I don't think it's all come out yet about that. Isn't it amazing what they found in his text? I think that's why they paid almost a billion dollars so they didn't get into anybody else's texts. They were like, let's shut this down now.

Well, what I read was the reason why they paid off is because there was ones that hadn't come out. And one of them said something that was, of course, there is still a lot, as you point out, of real racism in this country. And the phrase, that's not how a white man fights. Now, see, there you go. There's some racism.

I'm happy to like get out in the streets for you. What? From a guy who lives in Maine. Right. But for the stuff that is, and there it is. And there it is. And by the way, Kennedy, that was the greatest political sacrifice any politician ever made. He took the Democratic Party and the South used to be called the Solid South, meaning Solid Democratic South.

And within two elections, it was the solid Republicans out. Talk about a political sacrifice. But he did that because he sent troops to make sure that black kids could go to school. And LBJ doubled down. And he made sure that the civil rights passed. And that's when the Democrats lost their rednecks. True. And they wound up in a party that like... But now again, here we are 50 years later, 50 plus years later.

And Georgia's purple, blue. Yes, exactly. South Carolina might be coming soon. Right. Talk about incremental change. By the way, again, anecdotal, but I do travel a lot. When I travel to a lot of these southern cities, I feel like back in the day when I did, everybody talked like me. It was like the Deliverance Kid, for fuck's sake. No, not that. But it was like southern. And now...

They don't even have accents in Raleigh and Dallas and Austin. You know why? And Houston. Because they have international companies employing them. And because lots of people like to live in a place that isn't so fucking uptight. When you go to Atlanta, for example, I shot five movies in a row in Atlanta. Wow. Atlanta has the world...

whatever United States headquarters of Porsche Mercedes-Benz Delta Coca-Cola right Pfizer Wow, I believe And like two other like huge multinational corporations Oh and then Georgia Tech University Emory University

Georgia State University, all within Atlanta, Fulton County. And kind of the black capital of America. Black capital of America, for sure. I mean, Chicago certainly gets to be in that. Oh, and you go out to dinner in Atlanta, and there's world-class food, there's great restaurants, there's fun bars, there's beautiful music and art museums and the whole thing. And it's not like in New York or L.A.,

It's actually like black people and white people go to the same places. That's what I'm saying is like, just let's live in the year we're living in because I'm seeing that too. And the reason is because they all have great jobs and they all have great money. And because we're just further down the road, there's been more, I mean, much more interracial marriage. You know, it's very hard to like,

You know be fully on one side of it when mom and dad are of different races You know you kind of have to I mean, that's why Obama I think the thing I was taking away from this the greatest part of this whole interview is like let's live in the year We're living in and not be wistful for this mystical fucking Neverland of Of a time that didn't exist as if anything about this resembles an interview. I

My conversation, I would get asked all the time about Mad Men saying like, don't you wish, man, don't you wish? And I go, I'm a fan of painless dentistry. I don't know if you remember the scene in Mad Men where Don gets his tooth pulled, but it was rough. And like, I just don't, I'm like, no, it's better now. No, I don't. And I watched that show devotedly. It was a very...

Oh, you know what that tells me? I forget to do plugs. So I'm going to do my plug and then you're going to do yours. Mine aren't written down. Well, one of us needs aid.

June 16th and Sunday. Oh, I'm in Vegas. We got to go to Vegas together sometime. Really? Yes. I love Vegas. Oh, perfect. But not in the way that people love Vegas. I love Vegas because there's something about Vegas that is like unapologetically Vegas. Of course. That's what we love about it. There's gold on every surface. There's sparkly things. And it's politically incorrect.

and proud of it, or as proud as you can be these days. And it's for adults. It's for adults. You know, they tried in like the early... Yeah, remember that? That was a bad fit. Like Disney in the desert? Like, no it isn't.

Exactly. There's no Spearmint Rhino at Disney. Ever. It was a massive failure. You're doing the bit for me. Yes, that's exactly what I, what year was that? Like 95. I feel like, yeah, they really tried. It was a family destination. It was like classic Coke. And then it literally was like three years later, it's like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. You're like, oh, right. That's what it is. That's what we meant.

Right. And it ain't your kids. No. And of course, Vegas was probably the best when it was run by the mob.

I mean, I think Vegas was better when it was a little smaller. It feels like it's too big. Yes. Yeah. Oh, and it's, I mean, there's, you know what's great about it, though, is that the audiences are so hip, which is so ironic. I never thought I'd say that because when I first played Vegas as an opening act for people like Frankie Valli in The Four Seasons. Like the Sands? Diana Ross. Yes, I was at the Sands, my friend. Wow. Yeah. I was at Caesar's Palace with Diana Ross. Wow.

This was like my big feather in my cap credits when I was coming up in the 80s. Okay. But I was an opening act. It was horrible. Anyway, the town was not hip. At least the crowds that came out weren't. Now...

They're so hip because there's so many people in Vegas at any one time that, yes, 90% of them are hicks who want to go see fucking dolphins or magic or shit. But there's 10% is still like a lot of people. So I can do a great business in Vegas. We're open June 16th and 17th. Not only you can do business there. It serves the whole

swath of entertainment. But fuck the others. I'm there at the MGM Grand. Thank you, Ed. June 16th and 17th. Yes! June 16th!

A wise one. Phil Hartman. You're doing Phil Hartman. I'm doing Phil doing it. I do Phil Hartman's Ed McMahon also. When a guy does the best one, you just got to do his. We're not impressionists. Look, when I do Johnny, I do Dana Kirby's Johnny when he does it. That's funny. I do Rich Little's Johnny. Oh, Rich Little. Oh, okay. Yeah, that is more Dana. Okay, and Club Random's... Weird stuff. Club Random's...

That is weird. Weird, wild stuff. Oh, wise one. Okay, Clever Hand in a Video is now also being featured on Spotify. I didn't know Spotify had a video component. Exactly. Now we do. Because it's that fucking select. And we made the cut. Thank you, Spotify. So your plug, see, I'm not completely gone, is your new movie with Tina Fey,

And myself. Tell me about it. Directed by John Slatter. It's called Maggie Moore. Oh, yes. John Slatter, your boy from Mad Men. Yes, Roger Sterling and I getting back together. I always feel good about that when you see that people stayed friends. So John directed this wonderful film called Maggie Moores with the plural. And it's a murder mystery about two women who get killed who have the same name. And it's like unraveling the weirdness. It's got...

funny elements, this very dark comedy. Tina Fey and myself get wound up in this murder situation. And that will be debuting at the Tribeca Film Festival early June. I want to say June 12th. And then in the fall, Fargo season five. Oh, you're doing Fargo? Will be coming out. Oh, that's awesome.

As well as The Morning Show season three. So I have a couple of screens that I will be on. And yes, making prestige television and independent film to please the people. And you do it so well. You've really endured. How long ago was, when did Mad Men first go on the air? 2006 or 7. Oh, so you're on like your 20th anniversary almost. Close.

Being famous Wow. Yeah, and I'm just finally getting a handle on it. I wouldn't say that I think you've done very well. What did you do? What did you get out of a limousine and show your pussy? No, I don't remember any of that not yet. No, I

No, I mean, what did you ever do that was so terrible? Nothing. But my point is simply that, you know, I see friends of mine that go through the same, you know, kind of, you shoot on the rocket to the moon, and there's, understandably, there is a, you know, kind of, you're weightless for a second. So you have to kind of figure out how to manage it. And there's no rule book. But you know what, when it happens,

You're talking like you fucking, you know, fucked a monkey or something. No, I don't mean that. I'm not particularly saying I did anything wrong. But see, the thing is, when it happened to you, you weren't a kid. Yes. That's why it worked fine for you because you were already like not a nudnik. I don't understand how. No, tough, right? When you're young. I don't get it. I don't get how they do it. The only person that I've known or worked with that was famous...

from a very, like famous, famous, from a very young age, was Dan Radcliffe. And he has two great parents. And he went through his version of Bananas, whatever, but he came out of it great. And he's got a kid now. He's doing great. And I loved working with him. He's a wonderful actor. But I was like, that is a, at 13, to be Harry Potter on this planet is a lot.

And I loved working with him, and I still consider him a great friend, and he's doing great. And similar thing, I think he's 30-something now. However, I will trade that for my experience when I was 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. I will totally trade that for masturbation and getting beat up. Or kickball and having fun. There's something about actually having a childhood that you can...

be a kid in. But my sympathy for people who have exceptional childhoods that are actually in many ways better than my shitty fucking anxious ridden childhood, I

I have limited sympathy, I just do, because, you know what, was it really, yes, there were parts of it that were bad, but is it really worse to be Harry Potter when you're 13? I feel like you're very lucky. Oh, yeah, I think he would say that too. Right, right. And, you know, he's certainly...

I don't remember any scandal about him. He's not one of those kid actors from sitcoms where you find blowing bumps. There was some plague with child actors for a while. There was a while where, yeah. Because they probably were abused in a certain way. I think that that was almost systemic at a certain point. But, yeah, again, if we talk about living in the world that we live in now, I think that...

having the ability to understand like how trauma affects your life and how you can actually manage it and deal with it and actually get help and come through it. It's not a scarlet letter that you have to bear for your entire life. You can actually go like, yeah, that happened and it sucked and I worked on it and now I'm better. You talk about it in a certain way and I think you're right. I think your idea of just like, you know what, manage it and then go on with your day.

Find out find what it is that makes you happy and and pursue that and yours is stand-up and you've done it for I watched you on you know, what a Danger fields or something on the in the 80s on HBO when I couldn't have when I had a steal HBO for mine Right now my first time on TV was evening at the improv It was one of those shows in the early 80s. We're in stand-up Well, you know, it was a kind of a new thing all these young comedians They have to be like one new comedian a year and then there was like a million

So they just basically shot the brick wall at the comedy club. There was a number of those shows. We called them brick wall shows. And that was the first time I came out here in October of 81. I remember the little suit that I wore. Of course. You know, just...

And then there was a big discussion about whether if I did jokes on that show, I could then do them on The Tonight Show. Because The Tonight Show was very rigorous about you do your material on us first. Then you could do Merv Griffin. There were a lot of rules with the stand-up. Well, because there were like four shows. Yeah. Two. Yes, there was other shows. Right. And The Tonight Show was the pinnacle. Yeah, that was the chain. The Tonight Show and then Merv. Everything else. Merv, you know.

It was the other one Dinah Shore that was before my time Dinah short I remember man you watch some of those shows Mike Douglas Mike Douglas. I like Mike Tom Snyder I used to do but that was that was late night. Yeah, that was late daytime shows were I remember God part of this was why I really wanted to come to California because I remember seeing not only the daytime talk shows but

Merv Griffin, who had such a... Well, he was on it. ...malifluous tone to his... Yes. ...talk like this. Hey, how you doing? That's... Ooh, the lining. Rick Moranis. I was going to say, I'm doing Rick Moranis. Great Merv Griffin. Ooh, let me see that lining. But it was a free-for-all on those shows. If anybody's watching, Google Robert Morse, Merv Griffin.

And just see what happened on the Merv Griffin show. What happened? It is chaos.

Bobby. Robert Morris? Oh, yeah. From your show. Yes, and it's amazing. He's probably 33. Right. He was probably on Broadway in the show. I think he might have been. He was ironically cast in your show. Famously famous for that. And they brought him on the show. The show being? How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying. Or maybe the movie had come out, and that was what he was. People probably will remember the song that he, the lead, sings to the mirror, I Believe in You.

It's a great song. And great spirit of the song because it was so of a time that we have so lost. You're talking about optimism and to singing in the mirror, I believe in you. There's no shortness of irony in that song either. It's very funny that he's doing that because he's trying to pump himself up. Which we all are doing every day, aren't we? Every day, baby. Well, can I get the number of your therapist? Yes.

That and game shows made me want to move to L.A. Because I was like, man, there's some fun shit happening during the day at CBS Television City.

In the day, you're right. There's something about doing... They're going to DuPars, having a little breakfast, then rolling over to where you shoot your show, CBS Television City, and they are... There's something about doing bad stuff in the day that makes it even better. I mean, I know people think I'm a giant pothead. I don't know why. Maybe it's because you say it all the time. And when they see me, I'm...

But I'm not. I don't smoke that often. I smoke here. I smoke on special occasions. And so I've not most of my life been high in the day at all. But on those rare occasions when I do get high in the day, it's great. You know, maybe it's because I'm more awake or something. But I think there's something about, ooh. You're saying it makes you woke? A little too woke.

We're doing like adulty, nighttime, sexy things, but we're doing it in the day. I feel like it's like vacation. It's like when you're on vacation. No. Great movie, by the way. It's like being on vacation. Like when you're sitting by the pool and you're eating a pizza and you're having a drink and it's 2.30. Right. And you're like, well, I don't have anything else to do. You just feel good about yourself. You just do. I know. I know.

Could be worse. Right. You feel like, I made it. Or at least I made it enough to like... I made it here. To this lounge chair. But I think you have handled the whole celebrity thing as well as it can be done. First of all, I see you on so many commercials. Okay. Okay.

You're both not unhip at all, super hip, but also very often the sacrifice for being hip is like a commercial would never go near me. I'm way too toxic to God knows what I'll say tomorrow. They don't want to be like, hey, I'm Bill Marford Del Monte. I got to say something. We're stuck with a warehouse of tinned peaches. Tinned peaches.

Okay, so... And heavy syrup. But you... That's so funny. That's an all-in-the-family joke. It's a deep cut, but... Oh, I was going to say, who are your writers? I guess Norman Lear. Norman Lear. Started the show. Still going strong at 101. 101, man. That gives you hope, right? He gives me hope. There was a guy that was doing it in a way that he didn't have to do it in the 70s.

Making shows about underrepresented people making shows. And making them funny. Right. It wasn't homework to watch Good Times. Not at all. It wasn't homework to watch... Exactly. That's such an important point. For me also, like...

One day at a time, I was raised by a single mom. That was such a huge show for me. I also loved, don't get me wrong, I also loved Three's Company. But one day at a time, I was like, Bonnie Franklin, getting it done as a single mom. I was like, that's my mom. That's amazing. But your thing about...

Like weaving the comedy seamlessly in so that it wasn't messagey. That's something that they seem to have lost the skill to do in movies. I remember doing bits about, I think it was the Oscars of like a year ago where there was Nomadland and like all these...

just downer, you know, shitting in a bucket movies. That nobody saw. That nobody saw because they weren't, they had known how to, in the past, make movies that were about something but also make them entertaining. Chinatown is about something but it's also a story and a plot and so is Three Days of the Condor and

What was the one about Three Mile Island? China Syndrome? China Syndrome, yeah. I mean, they've done it a million times, but they just seem to only want a virtue signal, and they forgot how to be entertaining. Do you remember a little movie called, oh God, am I really going to forget it? Dog's Afternoon? Of course, Al Pacino. Do you remember what the big reveal is in the third act of that movie?

That his boyfriend wants to get a sex change operation. Right, right. I remember boyfriend, yes. Chris Sarandon.

It plays the boyfriend. John Cazale is his partner that they're shooting up the paper. Okay, right. His boyfriend is Chris Sarandon, and he wants to get a thing. Right. You're like, talk about burying the lead. Talk about being ahead of your time. Way ahead of your time. You're right. I forgot about that. And you watch the film. It's riveting, and then all of a sudden, the third act, here comes a wild left turn. Wow.

And it's still great, but you could, it wasn't about that. It just happened to be engaging with that. In a way that preaching about it. Yeah. And Charles Durning is like, what? Charles Durning is in it? He's the cop that has to handle that. It's a great film. It's one of my favorite films. I was just watching Shampoo. Talk about a great film. One of the greatest lines in cinema. What? Jack Warden.

Walking by the thing where Warren Beatty's fucking Julie Christie and he looks in the window and he goes now that's what I call fucking I even got doesn't realize that that's Warren Beatty fucking his own girlfriend But that's a mistress mistress. Yes, sorry and the door sort of slides open and he's illuminated But Jack Warden had a great career Jack were I feel like a lot of his career was tied to Warren Beatty Yeah, well having him wait

We played the football coach. Have a good weight, yes. But yeah, what a great... Yeah, hopefully that's going to be my third act. I'm not going to lie. It's a Jack Warden thing. It's better to be John Hamm, the John Hamms of the world, than the Jack Wardens. I mean, Jack Warden, it's a nice job. But it's a little like the upholstery business in the amount of excitement it actually... Fair enough. And that's, you know, but that's, you just, you know...

But you had a good combination of being born attractive and then smart. That's a big edge in show business. I'm sorry to say it, but a lot of actors are not that bright. There's no reason to apologize. That's just an observation that tends to be true because you're not rewarded for it necessarily. But it does come across...

So it's great if you can be a leading man and they can sense that you have a brain in your head because it's not always been a prerequisite No, but like I think you mentioned Humphrey Bogart. I mean like there was just something about him that but it was this authenticity That's what I mean. That's something that is very attractive on screen Especially and you can't quite something that I think look if you look at Harrison Harrison Ford's probably the best example, right? He's he's been a movie star for six decades and

Probably, right? 70s, 80s, 90s. Oh my God. So there's something that people see in Harrison Ford that they can relate to. Yeah, he's Spencer Tracy type. Exactly. He looks like your dad, your uncle, your cousin that you like, your brother that you like. All of it has positive resonance. And that is great in a movie star.

Tom Cruise is a different way. Tom Cruise looks like the guy who is the captain of the football team times the president times Neil Armstrong times all the other stuff. And there's something about that too, which is great. I agree. And you want both of those guys in the world. Did he personally call you to be in Top Gun?

No, but I remember when I said yes to it, I got a call very soon after that saying, I can't wait to make this movie with you. And I was like, I have like three scenes in this movie, but he still reached out and said, you know, I can't wait to do it. Well, there were three good ones. I agree. Don't get me wrong. I loved every minute of it. But also, I'm just thinking Tom Cruise is not the kind of guy who doesn't, like, I think, look after every detail in a movie. So for you...

He must have wanted you there. I mean, maybe it wasn't his first idea. There is nothing on set that Tom doesn't want there. Exactly. And it is what he does so well. He curates an experience that is... And for as long as he has, it almost makes you think there's something to Scientology. There isn't, but it's one of those things that leads you down a path.

Listen, it works for him. No, he is a suis honorer, as they would say in Paris. Yeah. He is one of a kind. He just, yeah. And the experience was, I mean, I can only say it was as advertised. You just saw it in person. You knew it was going to be magnified on the screen. And everything about that experience was, and I watched him because I had my part to play. I wasn't producing the film. I had nothing to do other than show up

know my lines, look good in the suit, make sure I wasn't letting it slip. No, just not running down your throat. Exactly. But I watched how he took care of all the younger actors and was very aware that a lot of them, it was maybe their first movie, certainly their first major motion picture. And I was like, man, I've definitely seen the other version of that where it's like, fuck you, figure it out, or I'll do something that'll kind of

take your legs out of you and he was not that guy. - It's funny, I don't know if all Scientologists are like that but he is a lot like the Mormons which makes sense 'cause they're both recent religions which is unforgivable to be recently a religion but okay. But in the sense that Mormons, like when you read about it and all the things they believe and you're like, I can't believe you people really and then you meet them in person and they're just the nicest people in the world. - Delightful. - Delightful.

And those are the kind of paradoxes that people in this country politically have to keep in mind, that even a Trump voter cannot be a hard, it doesn't make them a monster automatically. It could, and they're wrong about a lot of things. There's monsters on both sides. There really are. And also, they just, it's just a big country with lots of people who don't see the world. It's what Lorne Michaels used to say about SNL. He goes, you know we're on in all 50 states.

Is that Dana Carvey's? I'm not sure. It's pretty good. It's a lot. I think it is. It might be Dana's. It's Dana's. I've been listening to a lot of their podcasts recently. But it's true. And he has, as a Canadian even, he has a sense of we are appealing to a wide swath. Absolutely. Very broad. And we are all part of the community, and this is something that we all have to pay attention to. And it's very true, and I think this is another thing, another strike against the social media of it all. But when you're...

forced to actually interact with people on a face-to-face basis and you talk to them and you and you breathe the same air and you're in the same space you get a very different experience than you do when you're typing on a screen about very different or when you're yelling at a camera about somebody yes and it is and it is wildly different what I remember learning that lesson when I was a teenager and I went on my class trip to Washington DC when I was 16 years old and I met our

senior senator from Missouri there, John Danforth. Right, I remember him. And I was like, this guy, he's going to take away the blah, blah, blah. And then I met him, I was like, greatest guy I've ever met. Are you kidding me? Oh, that guy's classy and smart and funny. He's got a great story. He's got a great office. It smells good. And humble. Correct. He was humble because he's from Old Money, Missouri. He's got a little blue blood sense to him. But even that was like,

What a carriage. He was 6'4". He had a deep voice. He looked like what I thought, you know, a senator would look like. Humble in the sense, hopefully, that he could laugh at himself. In person, they all do. Right. Because they all know that they're ridiculously lucky. I mean, I don't know if Matt Gaetz laughs at himself, but I bet he does. He's like, look what I'm getting away with. I'll do it for him.

So that's so interesting. So what were you like in high school? Were you like, you said you were 16 and on this class trip, were you like a popular kid? Part of it was a theater trip because we went to New York and D.C. and we saw a play at the arena stage in D.C., some Shakespeare thing. Were you popular by then? You were? Yeah. Because I was engaged with all parts of school. I was smart because I liked class. I liked participating in class. I was also athletic.

I love doing that. And my school that I went to, you were encouraged to do the arts, whether it was painting or sculpture or singing or playing an instrument or theater. So you did drama? I did theater. I tried painting and I was bad at it. They were like, okay, if you're bad at it, you don't have to do it, but try. And I tried. And then I did theater and I was like, well, this I actually like. This is kind of fun.

And I got feedback that suggested that. Right. That's interesting. You did all those things. I did none of those things. So you were this good-looking jock. You find your way. Gay. No. But you were into theater. And what was the... Yeah, that's a lot. I could see why you were popular. But I had a lot of friends that did the same thing. Like our theater teacher was wildly smart. He's like, get the jocks in. Guys, it's fun.

It's not, there's no stigma to it. There wasn't the Ferris Bueller, well, there's the dorks, the dweebs, the burnouts, the this is, the that's. We were all just kind of in the same melting pot at the school. And that was what it really did. Shout out to John Burroughs' school. It was based on John Burroughs, famous naturalist from the 19th century, and Thomas Dewey, which was art as experience. You must experience things to understand maybe you won't like them.

Well, that's not very redneck-y for Missouri, right? There's a lot of Missouri. Exactly. There's a lot of everywhere. It's really almost unpredictable, almost a fool's errand to try to predict how people will be in certain places. I mean, you could, oh, we're going to the Redneck Riviera. I'm sure they're going to be. And sometimes they are. And sometimes they're not. And it's part of, it's I think the best lesson, which is just be present, take it in,

I think the thing, once again, what I'm taking away with this is like live in the moment that you're in. Live in the year that we're in because it's not, it's going to change. Well, I mean, your life's going to change. When are you getting married? In about a month. In about a month. In about a month.

Whoa, so when's the big bachelor party night that we all go to? Well, it's going to be here. It's going to be here at the Platinum Lady. Coming to this stage, Ginger. Are you going to have a bachelor party?

I'm not planning on one. That best friend of yours is still your best friend? He's coming in. He better fucking do it. He's coming in from Australia. He'll be staying with me. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe we'll go to Australia. Oh, he's Australian? He's American. He moved to Australia. Oh, I see. They're priced out of living in America. So will it be a destination wedding?

It's right at the coast. It's not too far. It's drivable. Your invitation should be in your inbox. No, I wasn't. I'm really, weddings freak me out. I mean, just, it doesn't, it must scare you a little, the idea of especially a guy like you and the chicks must still throw themselves. It doesn't scare me. In fact, I'm like, I'm excited about it. I'm very. Yeah, I could tell you are. I am. It's, I was listening to, you mentioned Dana Carvey. I was listening to his podcast with Spade.

and our mutual friend Sarah Silverman was on yeah, and She's talking about being in a place in her life where she absolutely is comfortable in her relationship and she happens to be dating Whatever they're doing living with this person sharing her life with this person who we both might know but I know him really well and She's like I'm just comfortable and that's the way I feel I'm comfortable. There's worse things no No, I've been uncomfortable. It's not great. I

This is not that. I think we're born in a state of being uncomfortable. It's hard to get out that opening. Life is a constant struggle to retard the progression of being uncomfortable. Certainly, you know, physically, you have to take care of yourself a lot more. I mean,

John, I've been with you at times 10 years ago or so when we both were just drinking all night long. Like now we're drinking in a circumspect way. Yes, for sure. Right. That's a radical shift. Well, it's a concession to reality. It's a concession. I go to the gym. I never went to the gym. Really? You never went to the gym? I mean, when I was a...

In high school I did because I was an athlete. But then I was like, I'm in good shape. I'm fine. I'll work and I'll play sports. Now I'm like, I go to the gym because it makes me feel good. I'm not going to the gym to turn into some Marvel person. I'm going to the gym because it actually makes me feel good. Same way I go to therapy. Right. It's physical therapy. You've never been a spandex character, have you? No, I have not.

Not on purpose. I would consider it. It's just never been offered to me. Really? I would think you would be a perfect candidate. They had other guys fill the suit. To...

to be, what superpower would make, see I think you're just too, they see that you would, you know the problem with you, you're too smart to do the movie and you would be like, you wouldn't be able to keep a straight face if your superpower was like, you know, your erection could bend steel.

Tall buildings in a single bound. I don't know. I think that there's been a lot of advances in the superhero genre. I think that they're finding great ways to tell those stories now.

I think I was watching Taika Waititi talk. Do you know Taika? Have you ever met Taika? He's been on your show. Who? Taika Waititi. He did Jojo Rabbit. That was great. Yes. That is about as far away from a spandex movie as I can imagine. But he also directed... He also directed Thor. Yeah.

The last couple Thors. And so he has a very interesting take on it. And he's like, you know, it's like superhero stories are just stories. And they're stories with this mythical character in the middle of them. This mythical character that has all the powers in the world and all of these amazing things and can't die. And it's like, it's kind of like religion, isn't it? He goes, maybe in 150 years, Iron Man is going to be somebody that they write books about and they're going to pray to the thing of Iron Man and Thor. That happens all the time.

So here we are. I mean, did you ever see Change of Habit, the Elvis movie? Okay. Is it about nuns? Yes. Okay. I had a feeling. You know what? Okay. I mean, it's ringing a bell. This is a treat. I know, because you're, what year you were born? 71. Okay, this is before you were born, 1968. For sure. Elvis was not a movie star when I was born. Right. He died when he was six. Right. Okay.

77. Yes. Okay. So this is 1969. So he's been, you know, he emerged in 56. That's when he was, that's the year I was born. Okay. Like same month I was born, Heartbreak Hotel. Okay. Then he went into the army in 60. Okay.

So that's like he had a very brief period where he was like super. And then shut it down for, it's like Ted Williams. He gets out, well, no, but he gets out of the service. And for the whole next decade, the colonel puts him in these stupid movies. He did like 29 of them. Clambake, Clambake, Fun in Acapulco. You know, he called them travelogues. But they made. Put Elvis in a different place and make, it was like James Bond. It's without the stuff. It was hardly James Bond.

But I mean, it's in a different... Right. So in 1969, Elvis finally puts his foot down or something happened and he gets out of the movie contract. This is the last movie. And he goes, this is when he went back to performing and actually did great. That's the, to me, the greatest period of his recording is Suspicious Minds. Well, 68 was the comeback, right? 68 is the comeback, right. It's when he was like, oh, I'm going to

The leather suit thing looks great. Exactly, and I'm going to do, this is what I should do. I shouldn't be doing clam bake. What the fuck was I thinking? And then he killed Vegas for like five years, right? Yes, and toured until they dropped dead touring. So in 1969...

It's the new Elvis. It's a new world. You know, this is the hippie generation. You're 13. I'm 13 Yes, this movie was very influential I was like that's not what I'm gonna do in show business because okay so Elvis Wants to like change his image and he does the comeback special and that's a big hit. So he gets the script called change of habit where he's a ghetto doctor and

This is a giant departure from Deke Rivers, who will be singing at the end. Right, right, exactly. So he's got to win the race. What? Yeah, who has to win the race to get the thing. Exactly. Speedboat and Rennie and I running at noon.

That's, yes. Okay, so he's a ghetto doctor. Inner city doctor. Is this where In the Ghetto came from? Same year. Okay. So it could have been, I don't know, but yes, the song In the Ghetto. Like, suddenly Elvis wanted you to know he cares very much about the people in the ghetto. This fucking southern man, shall we say,

I could see that being earnest, though. It could be. It could be. It feels like... Yes, it could be. I don't feel like that was a play. I mean, he was born in Tupelo, Mississippi in 1930. So I feel like there's something obviously there. Yes. I understand this thing. I think it's admirable that he wanted to reach out. This is also the great song he did at the end of the comeback special called If I Can Dream. Oh, my God. That performance, too. And that song. Forget about it. The whole thing, you know.

where all my brothers walk hand in hand. Again, this is not something Elvis seemed to care about for the first 36 years of his life. Hey, you know what? He got there. If you think he got there, exactly. That's what we say to all people who, like, get woker. He got there. We don't hate you because you... There's no timeline. Thank you. So, okay, so he's this ghetto doctor. And it turned, but it turned... It was called Bad Habits in The Habit? No, it's called Change of Habits. Change of Habits.

So Mary Tyler Moore, and it's interesting because you see that these two people are at very different places in their career. Elvis wants to change his image from Glambake to ghetto doctor. And Mary Tyler Moore is coming off the Dick Van Dyke show, but it's kind of fizzled. This is right before she gets her show in 1970. So she takes this job opposite Elvis. Show business. People want to work. Or maybe she thought this is the greatest thing, but I don't think so.

So she's a nun, but there's this program. Now this is really ringing a bell. Okay. Okay. So there's this program where the nuns, like three nuns get to like shed their habit and go in street clothes and work at the clinic.

in the ghetto because the church is trying to reach out. So they show up, Elvis doesn't know they're nuns, and it's, I didn't realize until I watched it again, it's an abortion clinic. And he thinks that they are three uptown girls, 'cause he sees that all the time, who come downtown to his ghetto clinic because they don't wanna be seen by their friends and family.

and he literally says like, "Oh, okay, well, oh no, it's not all three of you, is it? Oh, it's not the same guy, is it?" - Oh boy. - This is really a line in the movie. So, of course, Elvis and Mary Talamore fall in love, but he doesn't know she's a nun, and then at the end, we find out, and then she's sitting in the church at the end,

And Elvis, of course, even though he's a ghetto doctor, he still sings. Sure, I'm cool with you. Come on. So he's singing. This is when the church was trying to be hip with the folk song. The folk singing. So there he is at the church just singing about the Jesus. And there's a thing of Jesus. And the camera cuts back between her looking at Elvis and

And there's Jesus and Elvis, Jesus. And it's like, that's how the movie leaves you. Like, who could make this decision? I have to pick between Elvis or Jesus. Or why not? Hey, two things can be true. Two things can be true. And it also, what was the point of that? Was that... She changed her habit. No, that...

And that was the beginning of Sister Act One. And then Whoopi Goldberg showed up. And you wouldn't believe it, but they started singing. But have you ever watched an Elvis movie, like any Elvis movie? Yeah, for sure. Because... Viva Las Vegas is like, you know... I mean, to get stoned or a little tipsy and watch an Elvis movie... They hold up. They're very much artifacts of their time. But he is...

Ridiculously compelling as a performer. I mean, I mean it's what about the undeniable the early ones where he's did you watch that thing on HBO the two part real course six hour Elvis thing I was watching I was Transfixed by that. I thought it was just fantastic because I was so much old stuff that I hadn't seen You know, and I think for my generation that didn't really have Elvis when we were talking with madmen like

Elvis was still like in the top ten during the Mad Men era and so was Frank Sinatra like the Beatles and all the 60s stuff didn't really hit to like the late 60s. Yes. Really. There were still I mean obviously they had hits but Elvis was still there and Sinatra was still there. There were still Mad Men era. That version of that. Well the early. Popular culture.

It was still very much in transition to what we think of as the 60s. Well, that show starts in 60. Yeah. Okay, Elvis was definitely, that was his first year out of the army. 62, he had a big hit with, return to sender. Address unknown. Address unknown.

You know it. No such number, no such zone. For sure. Right. But then when the Beatles took over in 64, that was the British invasion, he was old news. That's why he was making those movies. Yes. He had the occasional hit. He had one of the Hawaiian movies, I think it was 65 or 66,

gave the world wise men say only fools rush in I mean it's only yeah I can't help that was a huge hit that was what he ended his concerts with that was the closing summation of my whole career is this song

I can't help falling in love with you. I mean, there's a reason that song has endured, you know. And it's part, it's 100% part of his magnetism. That 68 comeback special was really the, that was on live national television. And I think it got up until like maybe a couple decades ago, it was like still in the top 10 of like most watched shows.

No, did you ever see the early movies he did where they were not musicals like Flaming Star or... Kid Durango, Kid something? No, there was Kid Creole. Creole. Okay, but he's a, like you said, compelling actor.

He is a very... He's not a polished actor, but it almost works for him. Well, he was... I mean, he was devastatingly handsome. Devastatingly. Absolutely. Unbelievably good looking. Unbelievably. And just had this... And by the way, not for nothing, I think that Austin Butler...

Nailed it in that Elvis movie. I had lots of problems with the movie, but not with the performance. He was great. He was great. He was the right guy for that. And a lot of guys have played Elvis. I mean, I remember seeing Kurt Russell do it, like soon after Elvis died. That's how long ago. Like maybe 1979, they did a TV movie. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. He's a phenomenon. I think there has not been another Elvis.

No, I maybe make the case for Michael Jackson would say that but Mike I mean look but he didn't have he didn't have Other than the obviously problematic stuff that came out later. He never he was never never tried to be an actor He was pure pop tell my Michael. Yeah. Yeah, he was pure pop like he was just that was his That was him. Yeah Elvis had a second gear. He's right acting. Yeah. Yeah, Michael I think had dreams of being an actor I think

He wanted to, I mean, that just came along at a time when he started to fall apart as a person. You know, he just was so fragile. He just couldn't, I mean, talk about a candle in the wind. But yeah, he just, yeah, that was. Another undeniable talent.

You just can't. You cannot. Yeah, you don't know if it's... Process it. Well, and you don't know if it could have the kind of longevity, but, you know, Paul McCartney is a pretty amazing talent and has a longevity that's pretty sparkling. That was another fascinating thing to watch was that documentary, Get Out, Get Back. No, that Get Back was...

Also, when you look at what they were doing in those sessions and how fast they were working and how amazing what they did then became and then realize that they're all 26, 27 years old and Harrison's 24. I know. And just the emotional intelligence that they're dealing with and the stuff that they're dealing with in real time and also just Ringo. Yeah.

how he's like the rock. He's just the steadiest guy. Like, okay, what are we doing? Not this? Okay, I got it. I got it. Don't worry. Never misses a beat. Never misses a thing. Puts his fur coat on. Peace out. I got to go shoot a movie. Yeah.

I thought Peter Jackson was very smart to put the calendar as a framing device because you see, okay, they walk into the studio right after New Year's. It's January 2nd or 3rd. Did you hear that speech that Martin Luther King gave? What? Oh, that was happening too? Right. You're right. Wow. That seems like a big deal. Yeah, I forgot that.

Okay, so we see they're walking into the studio. Hi, Happy New Year. And by the end of the month, we need a whole new album.

And so they have nothing, really. They're just kind of fumphering. And they have all these side disputes that are happening. And George walks out for a minute. By the way, they throw him under the bus immediately. I love that. It shows that Lennon and McCartney, it was always about Lennon and McCartney, that group. They were never really fighting. And everybody else was a little bit a third wheel.

Also, by the way, also, like, he's playing songs, and some of his songs on that record are the most beautiful songs. And then it's like the things he had in his pocket become all things must pass. George? Yeah. One of the greatest albums of all time. Yeah, but that's... I just had these in my back pocket. Right. But the reason why he had so many songs in his back pocket is because... Couldn't get any of them on. Right, yeah.

So he kind of had... They were Octopus's Garden, they'd give Ringo one, they'd give George two, and then they'd have the rest. I think George may have had a hand in Octopus's Garden also. He likes to be under the sea. Who doesn't? There's a cover of Ringo's big hit, It Don't Come Easy, that George cut first, because he wrote it. I think so, yeah. There's a lot of George Harrison DNA in that song. Well, in the original, they're chanting Hare Krishna in the background. There's a dead giveaway.

There's a lot of tambourine in this one, shall we? Yes. As a very brilliant comedian of mine pointed out, the worst lyric in show business ever is, Bangladesh, Bangladesh, it sure looks like a mess. Oh, no. But he meant well. He did mean well. No, you should not do spandex now that I'm thinking about it. I think that's a blessing in disguise of it.

You should be like a, you know, there's no good like American James Bond. I mean, like... There's a lot. It's become a crowded space at this point. I think what I've been able to do... Not a James Bondian type. No. I've been able to carve out some fun things to do, most recently with Fletch, that I'm able to like, okay, I'll just kind of reboot this and put a little spin on it. There's a couple more...

There's a couple more books left to do. You know what my favorite movie of yours is? Beirut. It's a great film. Nobody saw it. Really? That is a great movie. It's a great movie. You know who wrote it? And you're perfect. I mean, you're so good in that. That's what you should play. I would do that for the rest of my life. If I could make Three Days of the Condor for the rest of my life, I'd keep doing that. That movie is very Three Days of the Condor-ish. Tony Gilroy wrote that movie. Tony Gilroy.

And that movie sat on a shelf for 15 years. Tony Gilroy, who wrote The First Born Identity. And wrote... Syriana. Syriana and wrote...

Michael Clayton. Michael Clayton. And directed by him. And I'm sure other, Tony Gilroy's amazing. He's kind of like the Robert Towne of this genre. That makes a lot of sense. It's a great film. Thank you. Well, all right. So let's get you and Tony Gilroy. Fuck, when is he? Still up his number. Was he canceled? What did he do? No, he didn't do anything. He started writing Star Wars movies. Spandex. Rogue One.

I mean, or rewrote it, I guess. Maybe Star Wars isn't spandex, but it's honorary spandex. Honorary spandex. Oh, shit. Is it 7.30? It is. God, I'd be at dinner at 8. I'm going to... All right. I have to get home. Did I do the plug? Yes, you did the plug. Did I do the plug? You did the plug an hour ago. I could sit here all night.

with you. Buddy, I wish we could do this more. Well, we can. We're free. We're free agents. You have my phone number and I live right down the street. You do? Well, a long way down the street. It's a long street. Sunset. All right. Club. Don't hit me. Give me a hug. What a pleasure. So much fun. What a pleasure. Thank you. Clubroom.