John Waters | Club Random with Bill Maher
01:15:25 Share

Johnny boy. Hello, sir. I can't get up once I've sunk in this chair. How are you? Did you see Richard Dreyfuss in this chair? No. Oh, you have to. Was he here where he said all this stuff about being vomiting from the new Academy rules? He just was, he was horizontal for a lot of me. What does that mean? Like, I sat down and it's like... You have to see it to believe it. Really. But he was...

But he didn't adapt to it? He just was very loose that day. I mean, he would be, I would be talking to like a head there. And then he would get back up in the chair. I mean, he's just. Like big, like Tom Hanks. I wish I was that loose all the time. Although, I feel much less stressed at this age than I did when I was young. Hmm.

I think I do too, even though I'm busier than I've ever been in my entire life. Well, that's part of the reason why. What makes you stressed? I know. Idleness. I know. Well, to me, I always say that I'm not going to retire, except I was just in France. I couldn't say that there. It'll set you on fire. But you're going to retire. So I said that when I say on my show, when I die on stage, you can take selfies. And the only next thing is if they dig you up to have sex, then I say, or a lonely. Yeah.

if that happens. Oh, wow. You never know what's going to happen. But yeah, I feel like the stress in my life was definitely in the earlier years because you're all about

oh my god am i gonna be a failure or like how am i gonna eat yeah you know i don't worry i used to just whenever i was hungry i got little bag of planters peanuts and they always filled me up now what i want to do i read have you ever heard of this is true you know more models than i do that models now the skinny ones eat paper towels soaked in water and that fills them up i

Bring on the brawny. And then they just shit out the paper? I don't know. Well, they must. They must. Or maybe they get the kind that's environmentally correct, that vanishes in your system. I never heard that. And also models, a long, long time ago, I realized that was not really a great avenue to pursue. Yeah.

even for a hound such as myself. Well, I heard I was in here, and I did the pose, but on the stripper pole, and they said no one else has ever gone to that pole here. Well, maybe not on camera, but certainly not. Well, I have never done a strip. I bet you have. I never have. Isn't that a great stripper pole in front of my old side? And I was at the Playboy Mansion once. What would I do at the Playboy Mansion? But I was there once. Well, half... Was not half a...

A very important voice back when nobody was talking about it for gay rights. Yes. Yes. And he also hired me. I loved working for him. He paid well. I even read at the end I was on Playboy TV. I had some show where they did vintage porn. I remember that. They were fine. I liked them. I forgot about, yes, I forgot about Playboy TV. I remember having a meeting at the Playboy Mansion about Playboy TV because I was like the only guy in America who had it. Because here's what it was. Or admitted it.

Well, that's the thing. Married guys couldn't get it because the wife is like, really? We're getting Playboy TV? Yeah. And by that time, porn was...

was free. Yeah. So I don't get that either. You need a guilt tax. Porn free doesn't work. It works for me. Well, I don't think for you can type in Clarence Thomas naked in a goodwill box and it comes up without buffering. That is discouraging. You used to have to go into Boner World bookshop and slink over to the creepy clerk and pay for it with a stolen credit card and jerk off all night. You can't do that anymore. Yeah.

And you certainly were a pioneer, which explains all the arrow marks on you. You certainly were a pioneer of that milieu. Which milieu? The milieu of creepiness. Yeah, joyful creepiness. I mean, when I see in the news, like on an almost daily basis, stuff about drag queens. Yeah.

I think, wow, John Waters was like a half century ahead of his time on that one. And drag queens then were square, and Divine was the first one. Drag queens hated Divine because they thought he made fun of it, and they were scared of him. But now, you know. Yeah. I like drag kings are more interesting to me because they're like, look like boys I'd like. And then I find out, uh-oh.

So Divine is a man. Yes, Divine was not trans at all. He was a drag queen proudly. He didn't want to be a woman. He never dressed as a woman except when he made money, like RuPaul. And the one thing RuPaul is a great key to his success, RuPaul has a great look as a man too. Most drag queens do not. Interesting, because I remember having RuPaul back on Politically Incorrect, which was, you know, I loved it.

And then many years later I saw, I guess I don't follow the show, like he does it, and I saw that look and I was like, wow.

Right, he can he has a great look out of dry. You can be completely two different people. He calls it work clothes That's what the vine called it to divine. I always said he might be a woman. He wanted to be Godzilla We thought him up to scare hippies. What do you? What do you think about this I mean, I think what they really call this is intersectionality like everyone mean we're talking about how

RuPaul could be in the world as a drag queen and also as looking like a regular normie. He was also black. I'm sure he also had

friends who were not. This is intersectionality. And they seem to pit the groups against each other. No, I'm against that. I said on my show, we're weakening the pervert brand. We used to hang out all together. Why are we fighting? I don't care what anybody wants to be. The only thing with the trans movement, some of them need stylists. That's the one thing. And I'm all for it. I don't care what anybody... You've said it too. I don't care what people want to be. I think they can change every day. But then I start to think, am I...

Am I a woman? I never thought that before. But it seems like everyone is now. You seem like in rich kids' schools, they're all non-women. No, but you're not, there's nothing about you that makes me go, oh, he's a woman. No, I don't want to, but then I think maybe I, I always say I look for the proton, but mine's the royal we, and they don't have that to check. Well, I mean, I can tell you're not a woman because you like guys.

Yeah, but you know, the real, and this is true, Christine Jorgensen, who was the first trans I ever knew about in my life, and the greatest headline ever that they could never get away with today was, GI goes abroad and comes back abroad, which is a great, great headline. But Christine Jorgensen always, yeah, Christine Jorgensen always said she wasn't gay because she couldn't have sex with a man until she was a woman. That I understand in a way. That explains something. It does. Yeah.

But what I'm talking about with the intersectionality is not just the acceptance of we're different. That's not what they're fighting about. They're fighting about who is more of a victim.

because of how many boxes you check. I mean, they have fights about like, well... Well, you're talking about who? Who's gay? Like black lesbian women. Like if you're black and a lesbian... Well, that's two points. To me, I'm a lesbro. I always say...

Gay men need lesbian help. I'm too Nelly. I can't take change a fuse box. I need a lesbian to help. Oh, I see And lesbians like to fix things Wow, and they're really good. So I'm always like a gay man - I Can't change a fuse box me I always got along with lesbians and gay men didn't used to but I don't know why because they were the first people that helped start act up and their friends weren't dying of AIDS so they were really brave and started up so these days and

I don't know. I live in Provincetown, which is, you know, there's a lot of everything. Right. There's straight people, too. Straight people get along well, too. That's what I like. Everybody together. I was never a separatist. We all hung around together. Right. All the people that didn't fit in their own minorities didn't fit. We had rich white kids with black kids downtown that were gay. Who cares? We all got along together and took acid. And it was really nice. And also, when you're talking about who's a victim,

Who got shit on in life? I mean, there's so many ways it can happen besides just what the things you can quantify as, okay, I'm not of the majority of people the way they have sex. I'm not of the racial majority.

you could have like a great personality and the white guy could be, you know, a boring white guy. Well, I said it's progress to say there's bad gay movies, there's untalented African-American rappers. I think that's progress to admit that. But that's why I'm against homeschooling because I think, yes, high school is horrible for the fun people later in life, usually. But you got to learn how to fight. You got to, I don't mean physically, you got to learn how to outwit them. I was so crazy that the kids would beat me up

thought i hated authority more than they did but you can't tell your kids that today just hate the teachers and you won't get beat up so uh but i learned my way how to get through it and you didn't and everybody kind of has to why were you mocked in high school or something a little but not really because i just wanted to be beaten i didn't care what they thought you know i i wanted to get out of there but i got the shit beat on me once i never did i could always talk my way out of it

Yeah, this I feel like I talked my way into this one. But did you ever beat the shit out of somebody else? I never did that either. Absolutely not. I wouldn't. If there was a fight, I was I could do it with words, but not. And I wouldn't even give myself enough credit to say I've been in a fight in my life. It's not a fight. I had the shit beaten out of me once in my life. Oh, that happened to me. I got jumped. Yes. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. For having a black woman as a date.

in Baltimore. Is that right? I'm shocked that you went out with a woman. Yeah, I had a girlfriend. You did? It was a long, long time ago. Now, this is before you knew what you really were. I knew, but I was... Playing the part? Well, I was... Who knows? She was fun. She was in my movies. Great time. I had a great time with her. Did you have sex with her? Yeah. Oh, you did? Well, depends what you... Well, which one of the girlfriends? I had a couple girlfriends. I know. This seems so naive. I'm sure that sounds like such an idiot off a turnip truck, but like...

How can you get a hard-on if you're not attracted to, like, I couldn't get a hard-on for a man, but you say you actually did for a woman. Well, when you're 15 and 16 and 17, hard-ons come quickly. Even if you're looking at a hamburger, you get a hard-on. And there's an easier place to put it with a woman. But, well, I don't know about that. Not easier? Than a mouth? Of a...

I meant a vagina or an asshole. Oh, I was talking about something else. Well... There's many different holes that can be, you know... I know, but the tightest one is the one you use. Speak for yourself. LAUGHTER

Well, I guess, yeah. I mean, so anyway, I understand that because there's a porn star I know who's really good, who is straight, and he's a gay porn star. And I said, well, how do you get it up then? He said, you just shoot it up before. What do you mean? You know, you can shoot your dick up and it stays hard for 50 minutes. Shoot your, you mean a needle? Yeah, that's what Harvey Weinstein did. Remember, they all said about that. Oh, yes. Well, that's for people who are like. Well, it's the same thing. You can do it if you don't have to. Anybody can shoot up their dick and it works. Well, can't you just take Viagra?

Yeah, maybe this works better. I'm sure. Yeah. I guess anything that's directly injected. So basically they said they all use that. And go-go boys use that. I never knew that. I never knew that till this. How do you think they get it hard all night and sit there with hideous men looking at them? You know, they get that needle out. This is where their work. It's like medicine for work.

Modern science is a great thing. It really helps people. It certainly helps, yes, with stuff like that. What do you think when you see, like, I mean, we certainly see this in the heterosexual world, like Cher recently had a boyfriend who was

Good for old chickens make good soup. I always said that. I'm looking for people that like Geritol Gentleman and Glamour Puss Grammys. And the last thing is hospice hags. I hope I find a hospice hag. I'm getting there. I'm 77. That is so funny. A hospice hag. Yep. That's next. And then necrophilia. Which that's fear of performance. I've said that on your show before, I think.

But, okay, I think they broke up. I read that too. But I like Cher. I've met her before. I love her. And I think she's great. Good for her. And Harvey Levin was here and he was telling me about

like when AIDS was ravaging in the 80s and Cher was like the best person. Like she went and visited people. So did Elizabeth Taylor. They all did. Yes, but like Cher did it like without any publicity about it. And yes, Elizabeth Taylor was great too. Elizabeth Taylor really did that. Yeah. Yeah.

But, okay, so I think, and Madonna, I certainly have seen with guys 40 years younger than her. So, I mean, I think, you know, I don't care what people, some people like old people. I had a boyfriend once who was always with older men. And I said, why? He said, because I'll always be younger, won't I? Won't I? Well, that explained it. Oh, that's a stupid question.

I know. People think it's a physical thing, which it's certainly... Some people like old people. It's just what your love map is. Dr. Money, the crazy psychologist from Baltimore that got in so much trouble on Oprah, he was my friend, and he wrote a book called Love Maps, that you're born with a type. And you've got to figure out that that type, if you keep falling for it over and over and it brings you misery, you've got to change it. But sometimes you really still want that always.

And everybody has a love map. Well, that's exactly. I mean, this is my story, and I'm sticking to it. But it's not just how someone looks. I mean, obviously, people, we're all cuter when we're younger. Duh. But, you know, people can be attractive into age. But it's more of like...

I guess joie de vivre maybe would be the right phrase. There's something about being in your 20s. You just haven't been shit on enough perhaps in life, and you just have this optimistic, great-looking attitude. But maybe you want to meet somebody older that can show you things you've never seen. I'm talking about from my point of view. And they quite the reverse. And the thing is, if I can't be young my whole life, which I can't,

The next best thing to me is to be around it and then feed off it like the vampire I am. I agree. Whenever I hear any people my age saying, oh, they didn't have as much fun as we did when we were young, that means you're an old fart and have no influence anymore. Right. Because you have to keep up. You get youth spies. I read music reviews. I spy on people. I eavesdrop. I mean, you must have so many younger people who...

adore you and and so I bet you you spend a lot of your time like I do not with people my age not that I don't love my old friends but yes but I just came back from a week in France I did a book tour and the French have always been so great to me and the kids were 20 they weren't even born when I made my last movie right all the young boys were giving me French poetry they wrote I felt like a dirty old Verlaine well you are but no I didn't act on it okay I know yeah but um

Come on over to my house and read that poem. No, I didn't. But that's what I'm talking about is that it's so great that you've, you know, you've feathered your nest all these years and you have this body of work and, you know, celluloid is forever. So it doesn't matter if they were born like 50 years after the movie was made. And then here you are reaping in later life and

the fruits of that with the thing that is so hard to get unless you've done something like that when you're older, which is why else would, I mean, 20-year-olds wouldn't normally, if you were just John Waltman walking down the street in Paris, the young 20-year-old guys are not going to be giving you poetry. No. I mean... But in France, it's always been, I went there for my 70th birthday and I took five friends and we went out the first night and walked across the bridge and a kid on a bicycle said,

Rode by us, did a U-turn, and came back and said, welcome to Paris, Mr. Waters. I thought, this is a Woody Allen movie. Did somebody pay him to do this? But it was true. It was just so great. I'm so happy for you that you got to see that. I'm happy for me that I got to see my version of that, too. I said to Debbie Harry recently, aren't we lucky? She just came back from a huge tour where she's so respected. Aren't we lucky that we live long enough to see this?

Is she one of your buddies? Yeah, she's a great buddy. And I always joke to them, yeah, she's doing great. And she's lasted forever. She can sing every kind of music. She had a movie career. She was the same thing. She didn't wait until something didn't work. She tried something else. It's just as important. And what's she doing now? Singing. She does tours in giant stadiums. She does? Yeah. Blondie had just a huge...

With Blondie? Sometimes, yeah, definitely. But they just did it in London, like huge stadiums and getting amazing reviews. And she's having a really great time, you know? Yeah, they did a reboot of the movie American Gigolo. Yeah. Did you see? No, I didn't see. Why they should remake the bad ones, not the good ones. They should remake Ice Castles and movies like that. What?

Oh, because they were bad the first time? They were bad, so they'd get a second rewrite. Why would you make the classics over and just ruin them? I'm always amazed that they keep making some movies over and over again, and they're never good, like The Great Gatsby. And the last time, the Leonardo DiCaprio one, because there was a Redford one, and I think there was two before that. And I thought...

Well, maybe the book sucks. Well, sometimes bad books make good movies and good books make bad movies. That happens a lot. Or maybe everyone was just, you know, it's amazing when you look back with anything cultural or with people's tastes, like how much it changes. I mean, I very often am watching because I see some, I watch movies in the bathtub and all over the place. You stay in the bathtub that long?

Why? Aren't you all wrinkled when you get out? No. What, do you keep putting hot water in? What kind of movie are you watching? All movies are five hours long now. You think I'm watching the whole movie. No, no, no. I watch movies in half-hour segments. Okay. I have hours a long time in a tub. No, a half hour is a perfect time in the tub. Doesn't the water get cold? No. Have you ever taken a bath? I take a bath every night. Showers are too violent for me. I told you that before.

I only take baths. You have to take a shower first. No, no, no. I take baths, and then I'm always in my hotel, and the thing that says I have to have a hotel with baths, it's getting harder and harder to find them. Yes, it is. They don't have them anymore. I know. They all, I guess, want us to stay at Airbnb or something. No, no, even in hotels they don't have baths anymore. No, I understand. New ones, yeah. Yeah. If you're hiring, you're currently dealing with economic uncertainty, i.e., a ginormous shit show.

The number one job hire right now is to hire someone to fire people. I get the bad economy, but now more than ever, it's important to hire the right people faster. Mainly start with the ones who want to work, which for some reason is rare. Thankfully, there's a hiring partner who is focused on you and your needs, ZipRecruiter.

From pricing to technology, everything that ZipRecruiter does is for you. And right now, you can try them for free at ziprecruiter.com/random. Here's how ZipRecruiter works. ZipRecruiter sends your job post to over 100 job sites.

identifies the best matches for your job and lets you invite candidates you really like before other businesses can snag them. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Just go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free. ZipRecruiter.com slash random. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash random. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

What's the first thing that someone notices about you? In most cases, it's your face and more importantly your skin. Unless you're still wearing a mask outside, then they notice that you're a moron. Just a joke. It's time to put your best face forward. How do you do that? By adding in a skincare routine. It's not hard, you just don't have the right tools. Until now. Clean

Clinically proven to reduce wrinkles, fine lines and signs of aging, Caldera Lab is the leader in men's skincare and is here to save the day. Get an exclusive discount at calderalab.com/random to enjoy 20% off their best products. The skincare world is heavily female driven. Guys are like, "Who cares about my skin? I'm buying dinner." But it's time to change all that.

Not the dinner thing, that'll never change. Your skin. Luckily, men's skincare has never been easier with Caldera Lab and the regimen. You have a great start to your day with the clean slate and the base layer. The good is your go-to at night before bed. It's a serum that makes you look so young, your wife will consider having sex with you again. But seriously, she won't.

In every drop of this serum, there are 3.4 million antioxidant units protecting your skin. That's so many antioxidants, it's like getting gang banged by an entire field of blueberries.

It takes less than a minute, morning and night, to help reduce your wrinkles, fine lines, and signs of aging. Get 20% off by going to calderalab.com slash random. That's 20% off by going to calderalab.com slash random. Jump into first impression royalty with Caldera Lab.

Do you like adventure? Check out Expedition Unknown, a podcast with Josh Gates from Discovery Channel. Josh Gates is a member of the Explorers Club and has a degree in archaeology. Panty dropper alert!

On Expedition Unknown, he travels all over the world searching for lost cities, buried treasures, and the truth behind unsolved legends. From the remote jungles of Cambodia searching for a lost relic to the American Midwest to find the legendary loot of Jesse James, Gates wants to get to the bottom of these mysteries. Listen to Expedition Unknown wherever you get your podcasts.

The point is, John, that I'm watching shit like, I'll flip through the movie guide and see, and of course they're showing all these 50 movie channels. And they'll be like, oh, look at that, Terms of Endearment. I remember that from 40 years ago. We all came all over that one in 1982. And then I watch it and I'm like, what the fuck were we so excited about? For cancer you were sobbing, but today you weren't. That's the difference. That was a tearjerker.

It was. And I liked it too, in spite of myself. It was hard of me to admit I liked it then because it was such a tearjerker. But sometimes tearjerkers work and they are good. I found it, well, first of all, I didn't remember what even the story was. I remember it was Deborah Winger and

And I guess Jeff Daniels, Charlie McClain and Jack Nicholson. Of course, that I remember. The astronaut part. I completely forgot that the whole movie is that halfway through, she suddenly has cancer. Yeah. Which is like the oldest trick in the book. But also now in real life, this happened. A lot of people I know suddenly have cancer. Well, it always happens in real, but not when you're that young. No. Yeah. I mean, this is part of the, you know, let's kill the young girl genre in showbiz. Love story.

I just watched that again. Well, that was a howler then. I thought it was terrible. I think then people thought it was terrible, which is a huge hit. That was never, did that get Oscar nominations or anything? I don't think, did it? But you know what's funny about that movie is like, I am the easiest cry for in a movie. Like in real life, very hard to make me cry. But like if you just push the right buttons and it's not even that hard, I will cry at a movie. That movie,

Like, nothing. It's sad, but it doesn't do that thing, whatever that thing is that makes you cry. It's just plain sad, and it was just like, also, I didn't really give a fuck about either one of them. They were like pre-Gen Z's of their era. I don't even know if I ever saw a love story, to be honest. I just heard so much about it that I rejected it before I even saw it, which was probably unfair. What about the song, Honey?

Which song? Was that the song in it? Bobby, no. Remember Bobby Goldsboro in 1968 had a number one hit called Honey? Yeah.

You don't remember See the Tree, How Big It's Grown? Now that you're crooning it, I'm having flashbacks. Friend, It Hasn't Been Too Long, It Wasn't Big. Oh, but I just remember all the great teen death songs in the 50s, like the one Tell Laura I Love Her, and the best one was where he digs her up and has sex with her. Do you remember that one? There was a novelty song, I Want My Baby Back, it's called. I got my baby back, and you hear, girl, I got a coffin open, and you hear him smothered inside. I got...

One of the most shocking novelty hits, and it was in the top 40 in America. Well, that just shows. Look it up. I got my baby back. Yeah. See, you have memories of the 50s. I do not. Yeah, well. And that sounds like it might have been very formative in the creation. Well, it certainly was at the time. I thought, what is this? But all those teen suicide, Teen Angel and all those songs, now you would never have a teen suicide song. So you're on the road that much? I do 40 shows a year.

40? Yeah, but you have a private plane. I don't. That's a big difference. He spits out. I have 40 shows a year plus. I write books and do everything else just like you do. We have many, many things. We're busy boys. That's good. So good. Yeah. I'm not ever bored. I don't understand people saying I'm bored.

Oh, no. Open your eyes and watch people. I also have no problem with free time. If I have like, do I have it? Yeah. It's not like I don't work seven days a week. I don't have to go anywhere. There's always have to go. Really? I have fear of not flying. That's an awesome line. You know, man. And the other thing I thought today, the writer's strike. I wish they had that in high school. What do you mean? I would have to do my homework.

You know, if you were a writer in the Writers Guild and the writers strike up and you were still in high school, you could not do your homework and they couldn't make you do it. So that's, I'm trying to think of good things as an optimist. I wish I could be sanguine about it at this moment, but it just... Oh, no. It's like, you can have a movie that's about ready to get made and...

Maybe they hired me to write the script for this. Oh, I remember when you were on real time for this. I read this for that. I can't do it. Oh, by the way, the thing about, and this is your book. It just came out in paperback. Liar Mouth. Oh, it just came out in paper. Yeah, well, you plugged it on. Yeah, last time I did the show. It's so funny. And-

You know, I love a novel. It's too rare that I read novels. Oh, really? I always read them. I like them. I know. I like them, too. They're just not enough hours in a day. But the thing about she steals luggage. Well, people could do that. And then this is before that guy. He read the book, I think. You mean the trans, the one that works for Biden that steals luggage. I think he read the book. What is his name? Brinton, I think. I don't know his name. Okay. I used to.

Was he on your show? No. You should get him on now. He was a high-level official, I think, in the energy department. The energy department is the department that watches over our nukes and matters nuclear. And he was like, you know, he certainly was well-qualified. But he was a full-out, wearing a dress. Full trans. But...

You shouldn't be stealing suitcases. Right. And to me, I did know somebody that used to steal the flight attendant's pocketbook always on an airplane. It's always in the same place. But why? What is this? But stealing the luggage, you can easily do it because they don't check it. Remember in the old days, you had a tag. And when you got your luggage, there was somebody there that matched the tag. So what, you take your bag and then one other? You go in. Well, she has a fake chauffeur and everything that she stands there with.

But basically, you just pick up a bag and take it. And then if they say anything, you say, oh, my God, I have the same suitcase.

But where's your suitcase? You don't have one. You're not on the plane. You just go to the airport that morning. Oh. In where you live. But how can you get past security? At the luggage claim, anybody can go down that flight. Where the luggage comes down, you don't have to go to the security where that is. You walk right out. Oh. So you just stand around luggage, especially if you have a fake chauffeur. You point to one. They pick you up. And since the book comes out, I haven't stopped looking.

for random searches more than usual and I don't know why because I never used to get that but this sounds like something that it's not something that a common thief does because they do but now the problem is they have cameras so you have to go to different cities you can only do it once or twice but it seems more like a fetish thing like this person wasn't really looking to get rich they were looking because it's just like think of it potluck what's in somebody's luggage if you do a couple a day I mean think what's in a suitcase really what

designer clothes. Most people don't put their computers and stuff in there. It's your underwear. It's your shaving kit. I have more than underwear. I'd be really mad. That's why I always take anything I'm writing with me or anything I'm having memorized. They'd get nothing out of my suitcase. Oh, mine. Well, one time somebody stole my La Mer cream out of my suitcase in a check bag.

That costs $250. Okay. I guess we have different ideas. Or personal things. I guess you could blackmail people, too. Right. But still, there are people that do steal suitcases, and there are people that...

And since I tried, they always say the first thing they tell you in high school is write what you know. So since I'm practically on an airplane every day, it was easy to do research about it. And I did know somebody that stole the flight attendant's pocketbook always. And I was always so shocked by that, that she would do that. It's always in the same place. So what do you do? So if you're not, if you're only on the road 40 days a year. Well, that's 80 because you've got to go and come back. Okay. Okay.

I know you. When you came to Baltimore, you went back the same night on your private plane. Let it go. Put a crowbar in your wallet and rent the plane. What the fuck are you jocking me for? And then what else do I do? Well, I do. Here's what I've got. I've got the John Waters Summer Camp, which is three days where people live as my character.

I host a big punk rock festival in Oakland every year. It's the seventh year. I have the John Waters Easter in San Luis Obispo. I do birthday shows. The only thing I don't do is Groundhog's Day. And eventually I'm going to do that, but then I'd have to do the same show I did two years ago, but then I'd have to memorize it again. But these are all things you do on the road. Yeah. At home, I write books and movies. But that's a lot of days.

alone at home. I'm used to that. Yeah, but I mean, like, I'm just asking you, like, what you're... I'm curious what you're... Like, how many nights a week do you, like, go out to dinner with friends? I would say...

out of seven i'm almost never home seven straight days in a row but if i am three nights at least i go out to dinner and i it's all and i love to stay home it's like me too and i also love to have dinner with my friends yeah but i have dinner with my friends a lot you know you do i'm i'm in baltimore i have the oldest friends i don't trust people that don't have old friends i've had friends for 50 60 years me too yeah i'm just saying so that's who i see

Yeah. In Baltimore. Yeah. And I have an apartment in New York. I have friends in New York. I have an apartment in San Francisco. I have this whole circle of friends there. And I live in Provincetown this summer, which I have a whole circle of friends. So you have five homes. Four. Well, three I own, one I rent. So you divide your time. Most of them in Baltimore, but yeah, there's other places I'm going. Yeah, I'm going to... I mean, if you own a place, you spend a considerable amount of time there. I don't care. It's always ready for me. The cleaning lady, I have four sets of underpants. The key to happiness.

I was going to say, see, I could never do that, divide myself between places like that. Because I have to know where everything is. I know where everything is. And all my homes look exactly the same. But you can't have four of everything everywhere. No, I don't have the exact same four. But I have a whole set of underwear, a whole set of t-shirts. I feel like I'd be in one place and be like, God damn, I need those cuticle scissors. I do have cuticle scissors in all four. Well, I'm just using that as...

Okay. Whatever it is, a butt plug. My favorite one. I don't have any butt plugs. Oh, please. I don't have a butt plug. I'll be honest with you. Why don't you sing Yes, We Have No Bananas now? Well, let me tell you something. Somebody once gave me a baby Jesus butt plug, and I threw it out because I was so afraid I'd die and people would think I had it for real. But I say in my show, you should make ornaments. You should put them as Christmas decorations and decorate them with your family on amphetamines.

So there's a good thing you can do with every weird thing that people give you. But no, I don't have any butt plugs. Do I? No, I don't think so. A butt plug is a misnomer, is it not? Because it is...

What do you mean? I think it plugs your butt. What do you mean? Okay. Again, I am not the most learned scholar in this area, but is it not to loosen the butt? No, I think it's to get tension. I think it's like, I guess if some people like to, well, I don't know how rude I can be. If you want to climax and some men like to get a finger up their ass, something like that.

Okay, correct me if I'm wrong. And don't play stupid. I'm not playing stupid. I am. Straight men like that. Isn't a butt plug to loosen... I don't think so. I think some people wear it all day. I don't understand that. My friend Pat always says, look at that man. He has a butt plug on, I can tell. Like a banker sitting there. I don't know.

But it's certainly not to plug something up. No, it's not for diarrhea. Right. So it's not a plug. It's not a stopper. It's not a plug, and I think it is a loosener. I'm getting this from porn. Well, the thing that I'm amazed by about porn, here's the thing that gay men do. I had never heard about squirting on women until I saw porn, and I still don't understand it.

And I say that basically, I've seen porn of it, though, that you should really develop that if you're out with your gynecologist. Because think, if there's an old votive candle that's still burning, you can go, bang, put it out with 20 feet. You can really be the hero of your family celebration at Christmas. You can't imagine why that's sexy?

What are they squirting? Could you just tell me? Is it urine and cum? Oh, God, I hope it's not urine. Well, I think it is. It is? Partially, yeah. Like during actual sex when they're having an orgasm? I'm not the one. You should know. I feel like I should make that Lucy noise. Yeah.

I mean, I think there is urine involved. Oh, God. You've been involved in shooting. You've seen... I mean, sometimes... You have encouraged a woman to shoot. I'm not encouraging them. It's just some women are very... I just never... Gay men don't know about this. I'm telling you. If it wasn't for porn, I would have no idea. I'd say, oh, my God, what is that? But you... I mean, this is disconcerting news because, like,

boy, sometimes it's like you need the splash guard from SeaWorld. Oh, my God. If it's... A splash...

Anyway, John. New things you discover. I'm 77. I don't know about squirting. That's crazy to me that you, of all people. Well, I had heard, but then I saw porn of it. But somebody who's into so much more unnatural and crazy and freaky shit than that. How do you know what I'm into? I've seen you.

That's not, as many, Alfred Hitchcock said, I don't kill people in showers. You know, just because it's in a movie doesn't mean I do it. I know, but you're not really claiming that there's a complete disconnect between what an auteur comes up with and puts on film. It is what your idea is. Everything's a little bit in your mind, but, you know, I have never eaten a dog turd. Right.

I know, but you... But why? But John Ford also never made a movie about that. I feel like you're different than John Ford. Well, yes. Not worse. Yeah, I'll say that's probably true. I really got to catch up with John Ford because, like, I keep hearing things from various people. They're usually cinephiles. But, like, he does have this reputation as, like, oh, you... I never liked movies. I'm rooted for the Indians to kill him. LAUGHTER

in all his movies. Native Americans, you can't say Indians. My favorite thing, and I think you've talked about, is Sachin Littlefeather, who then found out that she was a pretend. They came up with that word. She's the Rachel Dolezal of that movement.

Isn't that amazing? It is, but I say, people say to me in my show, I bring her up and they say, oh, you should give her a break. Why? I say, if I came out to Sheikhi and sang Misa Luba and called myself a Caucasianaut, they would give me shit. That's hysterical. But that's the next step. That's the only thing I could do to compete with her. I may have told this story before, but I'm going to tell it again.

When I read that obituary of Sashene Littlefeather, I said to Quentin Tarantino, you have to make this movie where he loves to remake the endings of real events. The night she goes to the Oscars, they boo the shit out of her. John Wayne has to be restrained from rushing the stage a la Will Smith. She goes to Brando's house with the trophy and gets shot at on his front step.

I said, make the movie where she loves strong women characters, where she is sashing Little Feather, then takes revenge on the entire Hollywood community who booed her. But she can't now because she was a fake.

And that's the ending. And then it turns out she's not even an Indian. No, I think it would be a great movie where she hadn't shot John Wayne would be, you know, an exciting movie. Exactly. But you can't now because she was a fake the whole time. And you said on your show, didn't you say, so what? If people can be a different sex, why can't you identify with what race you want to be? In a way, there's, you know, how far does it go either way?

But wouldn't you love to see, I don't know, Russell Crowe as John Wayne? I'd rather see Russell Crowe as Sachin Littlefetter.

Sashin Littlefeather could be played by like that girl who played, who's Wednesday. Did you watch? Christina Ricci? No, no. No, they read. I know they did it. Well, she was in it too. No, she was in another one. Yes, she was. She was in it. Yes, but she wasn't Wednesday. No, no, no. Wednesday was, I can't remember if she's new. She was terrific and it was, she'd be a good Sashin Littlefeather.

I think the story is too short because only people remember her kind of our age, and no one liked her that much. No, but it was a giant moment. Yeah, it was. And the fact that when I did the thing on it in real time, the point I was making was, look where the liberals were 50 years ago. This was liberal Hollywood who booed the shit out of her, and somebody shot at her, according to her anyway.

Well, we can't believe much she said, can we? That's the thing. It's very possible. Yeah. But she made that up too. Because her whole family said, we shut up for years. But once she died, we said, we don't have a drop. But you like living alone, like I do, right? You could never live with somebody. Oh, I've lived with people. You have? For a long time?

And they always don't want to be in the public life. I'm like Dolly Parton. And then what, these were? Boyfriends that I've had. Boyfriends, relationships. But they have real lives and they're not in show business. They know I'm in it, but they're not impressed, which is so nice. And when was the last time you were in one of those relationships? Recently. Really? But it ended? I don't know that. Oh.

But it was not badly or anything. I mean, it's... But you don't seem like... I mean, I don't know you that well and I don't see you that often, but you don't seem like someone who's ever been in some sort of, oh, this relationship is over, woe is me, trough for too long. I've had that. Really? Sure. I mean, I think, yes, and I'm

Were you like moped for a year? I wouldn't say moped, but I always just worked harder. But certainly I have been through emotional relationships. Definitely. Haven't you? Yes. Yeah.

But I'm heterosexual. Well, you don't think homosexual people go through that? No, I'm joking, of course. Yeah, no. It's not. That is the same. Exactly. I'm sure. Love is the same. No, I remember when they legalized gay marriage, like not even the national one, but like somewhere, I forget. You know, it was going state by state, I think, for a minute. And it was some state that was not like one of the usual suspect liberal states and

You saw like that, you know They had the film crew in front of the courthouse for all these gay people getting married and it was like such an eye-opener That it you know was like wow gay or there's a lot of schlubby people who were gay to you like well you Heterosexual we would think because that what we see the images on TV It's like you're either, you know riding a penis popsicle or your gorgeous. Oh, yeah, I think and there was just like oh

No, it's everybody. See, I hated every wedding I ever went to, straight or gay. I think it's a corny. I hate going to weddings. I won't do it. I was on a TV show where I played the groom reaper where I was the one where they were going to die each week. And talk about squirting. It puts women in heat.

Like just being around it. And also, well, not some of the women I know, but it also is a way to really spend too much money. And for what? But I'm for marriage. I believe in it. My parents had a really happy 70-year marriage. My parents had a very good 41-year marriage, too. So I believe in it. I believe it's possible. I don't get an open marriage. And I don't get married.

And threesomes, somebody's always the lettuce. I agree. Who wants to be the lettuce? Exactly. I could not agree more about that. I don't get it. Then don't get married. I don't get it. I always said it's better for the ego than the dick. You know, like it's something you do when you're 32 or something around that. And you think, oh, you're hot shit and you want to...

You're right. It just doesn't work. One person gets left out no matter what. So then fuck a real sandwich. That's called splashing. That's splashing. That's fucking food. It's a lot easier. And you can be a pig about that. That sandwich was asking for it. You can be terrible about it. One person is always jealous. Unless like...

Unless a threesome happens completely spontaneously among the three people. How can it, what, on the street or something? Well, I don't know. How spontaneously can it happen? You go home with somebody and the other person wanders in trying to get a glass of milk and feed you? Are you kidding? I'm sure it abides in four in the morning when everyone's on ecstasy and out of the country.

I'm sure threesomes have happened. Well, that's like three people just go, I don't know you, I don't know you, and I don't know you. It's perfect. But if one person is already somewhat involved with another person, there's going to be jealousy. And if you're a married couple and the mom says, would you like to have a threesome? That means the other one's on the way out.

Well, it means if a couple, if one of them says to the other couple, let's open a marriage and have a threesome. The person that said it is the one that wants to get rid of the other one. Of course. If you say yes, you're on the way out. Right. Definitely. No, it's just it doesn't fit.

And it's, I guess there are people who are pulling off. But I know now people that are in threesomes that are like married, like when you invite them, it's plus two. It's not plus one. It's, they are a, they would be offended if they, yeah, that word. Yeah. But you have to invite. You know people like that? Yes. I don't know any throuples. I know two. Can you describe them?

Well, there are like two men to where they're all men to. Oh, they're all. No, there were two, three men together. Three men together. Like the three stooges. Remember, I love the three. Me too, because they slept in the listen to this before. This is way before I even knew what a gay person was. They slept in the same bed.

And they would introduce each other as my partner, even though they were in no specific business. Well, they were in the business. My partner. I know. I love the Three Stooges still. Yes.

Did you ever see the movie Snow White and the Three Stooges? No, I never. It's the Three Stooges and Sonia Henney, the Olympic skating star. Oh, of course. Why she made a Three Stooges movie is what agent told her to do that? That's the oldest story in show business. Why? Because that's the best offer she had that month. That's why. She was a skating star. Did she need to make a movie?

Do people need to go on reality shows at the end of their celebrityhood? No. No, it's a drug and they have to keep, they just want to stay in the public eye. Well, don't you feel that too? People say to me, haven't you had enough? No. Haven't you really had enough? No, but I wouldn't do a reality show if it all ended tomorrow. I wouldn't like, I'd like try to get out as close to the top as I could and not like

slowly slide down the mountain. I'd go back and do, I was a puppeteer was the first job I ever had for children's birthday parties. So I'd give a really fucked up one for the richest kid alive. Just go in and do it just for him. That would be my last show business thing. A puppeteer once for one show. Again, the great thing is you're, I mean, yes, it's not great to be our age, but

We've settled that issue. We did it. They can't take it away. And if it ended tomorrow, I would be so sad because we're both still enjoying our work so much. But it was like, okay, I guess I'm just being greedy. It's not going to get much better than this. It's not going to get better. Your career or mine. No, no. Right. I mean, what else can happen? And it's great as it is. Yeah, I know. But what else can happen? And I'm not a greedy guy. I don't have to do this and be a singer. Yeah.

I wish I could sing. I would have exploited that already. But I have two Grammy nominations. I mean, I wish I was six too, but God fucked up. What can I say? Couldn't sing. Have you ever tried to sing? Have you ever sang on your show? I used to sing at the end of... I did a Hawaii show for 12 years. Just stopped doing it on New Year's Eve. And we would always sing...

Charlie Chaplin's theme song because I thought, oh, I'm a comedian. I should sing a comedian song. It was 100 years old. Stood the test of time and it was New Year's. You sang it by yourself? No. Okay. We used to have like celebrities who were in town, always in town on Hawaii and

Honolulu and Maui and they would Woody Harrelson help this Eddie Vedder used to help this Sean Penn and we had a lot of I would bring people on the trip it was a vacation every year and I really enjoyed singing that and for some reason I can hit the notes in that song Smile so I'm not I'm not a great singer but it's not an abomination

everybody else and of course when you have people like Joe Walsh came one year and played it with Eddie Vedder you know it was magical just you know you see that but you did this on TV or just no no no no this was a lot this was my annual your party yeah well it wasn't tell about it was a no it was like my business in your private life I'd say I've ever sung on your show ever no god no

No, but if I had to, that's the song I would sing because I'm practicing it. I think you should do it. Like Dinah Shore, see the USA in your Chevrolet. Well, Dinah Shore was a singer. I know. She was. And now they have a lesbian golf tournament named after her. She wasn't a lesbian. I find that so amazing. The Dinah Shore golf thing is the lesbian Woodstock. Imagine trying to have to explain Dinah Shore to someone in their 20s.

Where do you, where do you, where do you. She was the female Perry Como. She was great, I'm sure. But then she dated Brent Reynolds. How did that ever happen? I don't think the female Perry Como would really explain it to them. No. Perry. But she was, what would she be like today? Perry Como, kids.

He was known as the most, what was he, 50s? But he wore like, yeah, 50s. And he wore like cardigan sweaters my mother loved. He was the nicest man. He was known as such a relaxed singer that SCTV once did a parody.

I can remember like it was yesterday where he's it's a Perry Como special and they literally carry him in where he's like He's lying on a bed with his head on the side and the microphone just propped up next to it and he's singing Yeah Perry Como so Dinah Shore I feel was a little hipper than

I think she was probably a lot hipper. She was a southern blonde, but not like dumb southern. She was just like, she was very. She was wholesome. She was very wholesome. Wholesome, but kind of hot. Well, she dated Burt Reynolds later, which I thought was very confusing. Burt Reynolds, kids, you should know. I'm not going to go into Burt Reynolds. Well, he was the first male pinup that was, and also hairy. I loved him.

I love Burt Reynolds because he was that guy when I was a kid who was like, I want to be him. I didn't. Oh, God. Why? I thought he was creepy like a swinger, like a, I don't know, like he'd go to Plato's Retreat. He did? No. No, I said he felt like he would. And I always thought. No, he didn't. No, I didn't say he did. Burt Reynolds didn't have to go to Plato's Retreat. Burt Reynolds didn't have to go anywhere. No, he was definitely a sex symbol. He was not to me. He was a straight bear.

He, what? He was a straight bear. Hairy, very hairy. But isn't a bear fat? Yeah. Well, there could be a skinny one. There are others. I remember him coming out on the Tonight Show. No, you're right. And he'd be snapping that gum. He'd be chewing gum. And he had like super tight jeans and a super tight shirt. He looked fucking awesome. And he was a full ass man. But he was a stud. He was a stud. And you knew.

Oh, he sounded like he would have hung around with Trump. And you know what's so funny? You know who he hung around with? Who? He had a little coterie of gentlemen who he hung around with, all gay. Really? Charles, you don't know this? No. Charles Nelson Reilly. Yeah.

I hope I'm not outing all of you, but I don't think it's... No. Paul Lynn. Well, yeah, you're not outing Paul Lynn. At the time, he was not out. Well, he was as bad as that you could be. He was not. He was the center square on the Hollywood Square. I'm not making gay jokes, though.

in a way. Maybe that you were receiving. America did not know Paul. No, you probably didn't. He was the center square on the Hollywood screen. They would not have made that a gay man. And they always said he died of poppers, but I read the, he didn't. I read the biography of him. Poppers, really? Of course I know, but like, that killed him? Well, you can die if you do too many. I guess you can OD on poppers. How mortifying. Right, it wasn't a thing in the gay community that you would snap it under your...

knows right as you were coming or right before you come. But straight people did that too. That wasn't just gay. I promise you.

oh I don't believe you never did poppers during not during sex you never I used to do it like in department stores with friends and like be crazy like you ever see that Lars von Triggers movie where they all acted retarded you can't ever say this today but they would go out and departments and then people would run from them it's really good but it's very politically incorrect but we would just do it we did them on roller coasters going up the hill big hit of poppers and then go down

You never did them for sex? No, it was like college and it was the same stuff as poppers, but it was a little packet. It was amyl nitrate. Amyl nitrate. It was the stupidest drug I ever did. I liked it.

It was so short. Yeah, that's why. How bad could it be? It was three minutes. But it was like you'd turn red. Yeah, you did. Your heart would... It smelled like dirty tennis shoes and you got a headache. But it was fun. Why did you say it's fun? Because you didn't do it sexually. Try it. Oh, right. Well, it looks a little too late now. No, it isn't.

Go get some tonight. Rush. Go down the store. Go down the pink dot. They'll deliver it to you. Right. I'm going to put it all on the line, John, at 67 and do poppers now. Well, it's better than Coke. You do one Coke line of Coke and you drop that of fentanyl. I wouldn't do that either. No, me either. But I'm saying. But why in a department store? Just because it would freak people out. We would just go in there. Oh, I see. And then just to cause trouble. And then sometimes it would freak people out when somebody else would shoplift because they'd be looking at you. What do you think about this?

woman who claims that Trump raped her in a department. Well, my favorite thing is that Trump had the nerve to say that historically it was correct that grabbing pussy was fine and then had the nerve to say to the female prosecutor, you're not my type either. I couldn't believe he said that. And he's a free man.

He's an unbelievable man. But that is amazing that he had the balls to say that. Well, balls is not his problem. And who's his type? Who would be his type? I mean, imagine blowing him. Oh, my God, what a horrible thought. Yeah, no, that's true. But he definitely had a type. Yeah, he did. Definitely he did. But I think who would be, for a woman, what type would like him? Obviously gold diggers, I guess, you know.

But you've got to be digging deep to get gold for that, no matter how much money would be worth it. When he was around when I was young, he was a liberal. He was in Studio 54. Of course, exactly. Yeah, he wasn't this. No, he wasn't this. And everybody I know who knows him, everybody has said the same thing. He wasn't like that before he was president, and maybe he wasn't even like that

off camera when he was president, but I think the presidency made him that character full time. Well, he won by acting like that. What? He won by acting like that, but he got worse. Right, right. He followed the crowd that liked, whatever got a good response at his rallies, like he was just like a comedian. He'd keep the bit in. But we do that too. I'm saying. Yeah.

We do that, but we're not the president. I know. Like if the bit, the wall, the whole thing, he didn't think about, like, how can I solve immigration? He just one day said, we should build a wall. And it got a huge applause, and he was like, I'll keep that bit in. That's all it is. That's all that guides him. People think, but okay, on the women thing, he's had pretty women. I'm not going to lie. I can't take that away from him. I...

To me, a pretty woman would be like Verushka or like... Verushka. Remember her? No. She was a model in the 60s. Oh. To me, she... No, they were hair hoppers to me all the way. Hair hoppers? Yeah, hair hopper is a person that spends too much time on their hair without irony. Oh, I...

What about ironing? Well, I have a book called Extreme Ironing. That's my favorite book I own. There's pictures of people ironing volcanoes, lavas going next to them, on speedboats, skiing. There is a book called Extreme Ironing. You should get it. It's really good. Ironing? Like ironing your clothes? They're all on an ironing board ironing with the lava coming out. It's all pictures of extreme ironing. And they're really there? It's not Photoshopped? I think so.

So the idea is that... You go with an iron board and iron it in the most dangerous situation. It's so good. I love it. There is no possible reason for this book to be... I love the human mind. There is just nothing too depraved or stupid or weird that they will not have thought of it and then done it. I know. So how can anybody ever say they're bored? No, exactly. Not when there's extreme ironing in the world. I know. That is...

Wow, talk about irony. Can you iron? Can I iron? I can't. If I have to, of course anyone can if they have to. I remember doing it many times. No, did I ever think I did it great and mastered the skill? No. But, I mean, for fuck's sake, you know, if you can't, like, approximate it. No, could I do it at the foot of a volcano? I probably...

Would be too nervous to do it properly. But, okay, so wait a second. Donald Trump is in Bergdorf, right? And he grabs pussy. And I remember... You remember Bergdorf. There was tiny little rooms with nobody else in them. Each designer had a little room. It was empty up there. Right. So you're saying you think Donald Trump, as much of a monster as he is, would do that in a department store, would actually rape people.

Well, I believe the story. What she said, I mean, she didn't say they were naked on top of the table. No, no, but she did say he penetrated her with his penis. I mean, that's full on rape. Did she? Yes, I just read it in the paper. Not finger?

This is E. Jean Carroll we're talking about. We used to have her on Politically Incorrect. I liked her a lot. And my amazing thing, though, the thing I didn't know, that there was some other movie, supposedly, that the defense brought up that had that exact plot, which she said I didn't know that. Well, I can imagine. There's somebody that's done everything.

Do I believe her? Kind of, I do, yeah. I do believe her, yeah. It's certainly possible, but it just seems like... Because so many other people said that. Whoever thought Harvey Weinstein would have done that all those things, all those times. But that was in a hotel room. This was in a department store. That's what I'm saying. Have you ever been to Bergdorf upstairs where the high fashion is? It's completely empty. There's just little cubicles that one woman that's rich enough to go in there. It's not like in the middle of a department store.

There is fingering room. There are spaces for possible fingering to happen. Do you ever see something like that in the news that makes you want to write a movie around it? Well, the Dalai Lama asking a child to suck his tongue. Exactly. Something like that. The Pope's going to say, eat my ass to the next baptism. I mean, anything can happen. You read it and you think...

Why would he have said that? No, but drawn as you are to the macabre, are there stories like that that make you go, oh, I could weave a story out of it, like me with the Seishin Littlefeather thing, if I was Quentin Tarantino? To me, I'm always inspired by something. I save it in my...

bank of memories that gets twisted into some other idea somehow but certainly i read 15 papers a day i go through them fast some of them on my phone you know just looking 15 newspapers yeah but i don't read every story but of course through them all and you know why i get why if they're my soap operas

Like, what are some of these papers that I... I get every day I look at. I get delivered at home, the Baltimore Sun, the New York Times, the New York Post, the Wall Street Journal, USA Today. Then I read online the London Times,

The Guardian, the New York Daily News, the Boston Herald, the Boston Globe. Oh, my God. But I don't read them all. I look through them. I know, but even that is daunting. And I'm supposed to be up on the news. I try, but man, the idea. But I just go through them. It's my soap operas. When do you do this? In between when I'm all day. Especially if I'm at an airport or I'm in a...

You know, when I wake up, I look, when I'm right in the morning, I don't look at anything from 8 to 11.30. But before and after I do, you know, just during the day at some point. I'll tell you, I'm right and I go downstairs and make a cup of coffee. While the coffee's brewing, I look through a couple of them. I feel like, I'm looking at you, you're like so svelte. I'm not that svelte.

You're very svelte. Well, I don't go to the gym. I want the body of a 98-pound weakling. I just can't get it anymore. I just think you have a motor in you that churns like a lot.

That's why you're skinny. That's why you read 15 papers. I think some people just have a motor that works. My dog is like that. He just has a motor in him. He's 15, and he runs around here like, get the fuck off. You've never even been here, and I'm going to bark at you. It's like he's just got a motor. I think you're that guy. He wants to escape a lifetime of human caresses. He does not want to escape. He absolutely does not.

But he would, just because, you know. Well, I'm glad I have that energy. Me too. You know. I'm glad you do. I wish I did. You have it? Are you kidding me? I have it. You do a TV show, and then when you're off, you go do a stand-up show somewhere. Yeah, of course. But you know what? Do you have to do that? To me, of course not. No, but is it in your contract, basically, that you have to do stand-up? In between? Contract with who? It's between. You know. Who's hiring me? Me. Your show. It has something to do with my show. But it isn't.

Well, it does in a way, doesn't it? It helps promote it. Yes, I think doing stand-up and doing real-time do feed each other. And you go to each city and actually that's like a politician that's shaking hands in the supermarket. Exactly. You get a feel for the country in a real way that you do not if you just sit in L.A. And by the way, I think you see that in other people who sit home in L.A. or New York and, you know...

It's funny and kind of sad. All the things I used to be able to only say about the Fox News crowd, I can say about liberals now, too. Like I used to always talk about the bubble that they were in. And conservatives, of course, are still in a bubble. But so are liberals. And that's just a different kind of bubble. And that's sad to me. I'd say the most radical thing I can think is that I'm middle of the road these days politically because both ends are so ludicrous. Yeah.

that for once I say, oh my God, I'm middle of the road is the most radical thing I can say. That's what I'm selling. Yeah. You know, it's funny because, you know, it's not so funny. It's not funny. But what is kind of funny though, is that even though like when you read 15 papers or even me, just a few or none someday, it does seem like everything is falling apart. And yet

When you go outside, life goes on. Life in America, no. I just came back from Paris. The city was alive. They recovered better than we did. Really?

Really? I mean, it was junk. The whole city, a lot of people everywhere, every cafe, you know, completely here. New York. You go downtown in San Francisco, it now looks like the beginning of Bo is Afraid. Have you seen that movie? No, but I... But you should. It has some really great shit in it. What is it? Bo is Afraid. It's Joaquin Phoenix, but it's three hours long, and he's going crazy through the whole movie. But Patti LuPone's great in it. No, that, I mean, look... They're all too long movies, I think.

I always say the same thing. They all need an editor. You got to kill your children. You have to have the guts to do it. You know, just get over yourself. But now they have to be taken seriously. They have to be too long. Which, to me, all my movies, there should never be a comedy longer than 90 minutes. 90 minutes. Yeah. Thank you. There's no good thing as a good long joke either. No. I hate shaggy dog stories. And also, like, very often comedies...

like, you know, just silly comedies, but ones I've enjoyed, like, there's really only a half hour that's good. Like, it's a half hour to get into it, which is like, I don't need it. You know, like... It should be three. Yeah.

from my old days of 16 millimeter film a beginning a middle and three acts that's 90 minutes but like but only the middle I'm saying the only the middle act is good because like the first act is about who they are how does he you know black knight why is he a black guy in the middle ages because he drank this water I don't that's the funny part get him in

the Middle Ages with the Celtic jersey on. That's okay. And then the last half hour is resolving the plot. I don't give a shit how he's going to make it work with the girl. The plot is what makes it hit. Really? The first 20 pages they always say, get your movie made because that's all the executives read. Is that right? But the last 30 pages are what makes it a hit. Because when they come out of the movie theater... That's such a wise thing. It's true. I've said this before to people who are asking me about screenwriting. I'm like, first of all, why are you asking me? I'm not a screenwriter. But...

I did try a number of times. Of course, we did everything when we were young and had that kind of time and energy and also idleness. I had nothing else going on. And anyone can have a good idea for a movie. Sticking the landing, that's where the pay dirt is. Most of the movies that get made don't have a satisfying ending.

Well, they test them so much now. That's the thing. That because of Fatal Attraction, the first movie that ever changed the ending because of a test screening, then they think, and it worked. Is that right? Now they think that every movie you can make a hit. Well, if that's true, there would never be a flop. Right. Also, like something that would be a satisfying ending, I guess, to a certain audience wouldn't be to me. You know? Yeah. A real, actually. I like feel bad French movies with frontal nudity.

Well, who doesn't, John? I know. I like a feel-bad movie because I feel good anyway. I like to go in and have a movie horrify me or come out thinking, whoa, that took me somewhere. I feel like the best ones are not, they don't feel bad, but they can be sad, they can be serious, but they also aren't so earnest. That's what I mean. That it's just about... Someone learned something.

thing it's so obvious they lose it and they get it back and learn something they used to be able to make it works that is the thing that works in scripts but what does the first act they have something they lose it in the second act and they get it back and learn something in the third that is a hit like what what would every movie like what well hairspray and the musical she is the girl she loses the boyfriend she gets him back and wins um doesn't work with virginity though

Well, these days. You can't get it back. It might because you can. Sew it back on? Fix it back up. Switch it on and put it on your head. Do anything you want. What do you think about all that? Well, we've already talked about that. Well, no, I'm talking about actually sewing on body parts. You want to do it? Fine. Of course. I'm not saying we shouldn't be able to do it. I'm just saying I feel like they're very cavalier about where we are medically, physically,

I understand why it might be. It's a lot easier to take it away than put it on. It's not easy to do either way. Well, it's still easier. Anything you do to your body that's radical like that is going to compromise your health in a very big way. Everything in the body is holistically related. And the argument would be, but then otherwise your mind, you know. Yes, okay. That can affect you too. And that's to be considered. I agree. But I feel like this part of it is not even considered. It's just like,

Oh, well, we'll snap on a penis. No, you won't. You won't just snap it on. That's rare because that really doesn't work so well to operate. Or either way, you're doing something that your body...

It's going to have a medical repercussion down the road. I'm just saying, throw that on the... If you want to go ahead and do it. I'm not saying that. That's not the issue, John. I'm not saying... Does it bad for you? But it also is kind of amazing, though, that you can find a doctor these days who will do anything for you. I was reading about somebody who... Michael Jackson. You always could. Yes. Right.

Good point. You can always find a doctor that will give you what you want. If you doctor shop and you have enough money. Did you see the Ken guy? Some guy wanted to look like Ken. Oh, yeah. Including... Having a Barbie doll crotch.

That's from Hedwig. I know, I know. But so if anybody wants to have, I don't care. And if you, it's your body, if you want to screw it up or it makes you, maybe it's worth it to somebody. How great is Hedwig? Oh, he's great. He's my friend too. You know him? John Cameron Mitchell? Yeah, he's great. No, we met once. Um,

But that musical is... Oh, it's great. I saw it the closing night when all four of the people who played Hedwig on Broadway came out at the end and did it. It was really great. I saw it out here in L.A. Yeah. It was... It first started, you know, in a punk rock club. Absolutely. But I mean, the score is... Yeah, no, it's great. And even today, he probably gets a little trouble. What do you mean? For political correctness. Because it's maybe not so politically correct today and how radical it was when it first came out.

everything i mean even pink flamingos you know you can't say the word fat anymore right you can't but you can and my favorite can be it you can't my favorite thing is that you can't say manhole anymore you have to say maintenance hole so i'm like a turret person when i'm trapped in an elevator with a lot of people i start shouting mate manhole manhole because you can't say it anymore so it's it's crazy and that's that's why i say i'm in the middle

You can't say, you're not supposed to say white paper. The one I heard on the radio the other day that someone still said white trash, which you definitely cannot say anymore. White trash? Yeah. That's the last acceptor. I didn't think it was acceptable. Yeah, but you know what? I heard it on somebody's say the other day. I could almost guarantee if you said white trash, like we're saying right now,

Nothing would happen because everything is about teams. You can't call trash anybody. No, I think you're wrong. You can, as long as you're making fun of the people who are on. If you're white trash, you could. No. If you are a trans, you can make trans jokes. No. If you're black, you can make, but Jew, it's the same way. Mostly. No. That takes part of the pressure off. I'm going to school you on this. As long as you're on the team of the woke.

You can't make fun of the things that they prize. As long as you're making fun of the stuff that the woke, the kind of people that the woke fight against, which are white trash, I can make a thousand fat jokes about Donald Trump that you'll never see a complaint on Twitter because the woke are the ones who do that.

The conservatives, they may not like the fat jokes about Donald Trump, but they are a lot easier about just brushing it off their shoulder. And if you did white trash, they would be like... I wouldn't say it again because I know it isn't funny anymore to say white trash. I mean...

Roseanne can say it. Why? Because it's just not funny anymore because it's not new, it's old, and it's like... What about redneck? Redneck you can say, especially if you are one. But why isn't it the... Well, that's not saying the word trash. Right.

Trash is looking down at that. You're less than other white people because you're poor Yeah, I feel like white trash should be able to be used to Describe a certain type of person of any race the way cunt can be used to write as you know in England is like the nice simple sort of that you silly thing and here it's like the worst thing but they don't take it literally in other words you don't hear when we say cunt

It's a very bad word about a woman. In England, cunt is like... You silly idiot. Right. Yeah, it's not even obscene hardly. Well, that's what I think white trash should be. I don't. I think white trash is just a dated word that doesn't work anymore for humor. Okay.

Well, I'm not going to push it. Well, I know you have to go to a book signing. I'm going to go to Book Soup, one of my favorite bookshops in the world. I fucking love that you are always on the go. And then what? You're going to go to Ray? I go to San Francisco tomorrow to do the San Francisco lecture with an Aubrey Plaza is interviewing me. Oh, I love her. Me too. And then I go home and then I go back. What about tonight? I said we meet up at the Abbey.

Because I get leave at 7 a.m. Ah, so what? We'll do some poppers. We'll go to Rage. Oh, God. About 11. Oh, God. No, next time I see you when I do your show, which I think I'm doing in the fall, tell me if you did poppers. Okay. And then we're going to go to The Open Fist. Oh, no, it's closed now. Fist.

What was the one I liked? The Spotlight. That was the last one. I took the New York Times there once and we had to do an interview with Johnny Knox on that. We did our interview at the Spotlight right before it closed. All right. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you, Bill, for having me here. I'd love to see your... I love it down there. I know. Isn't it a great... It's like Hell's Angels Clubhouse. They took me to theirs in Baltimore. It was great. The Hell's Angels. Yeah. See, everybody loves you. I'm like, yeah, it was great to be in there. And they had axes on the wall. I said, what are they for? They said, in case.

But I asked such a stupid question. In case one, I didn't have to ask. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, I'm so glad you did this. You know, I never do this on a Monday.