John Mellencamp | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Did you change your number? Or did I change my number? I feel like we used to be in touch more. And I feel like, anyway, that's what it is now. Because I feel like I used to hear from you a lot more. It's not me, is it? It's you. You got sick of me? No, of course it's you. Is this like Johnny Carson thing? Well, Johnny Carson...

You know, the kids don't even know who that is. I know. They always ask me in interviews, like, you know, who was your hero growing up? And I'm like, well, Johnny Carson. Was he a guy on Mount Rushmore? Yeah, I was asked to be on Carson. And I said no. Sure, a giant rock star. I said no. You never did The Tonight Show? You should have done it just to say it's on your bucket list. Well, now, but you know.

30 years ago, 40 years ago. But now it's different. Yeah, you know, back then if you were on the- Why didn't you do it? Because it wasn't cool. It was cool for me. Well, it was cool for me. I watched it every night. Well, why didn't you think it's cool then? Because the, you know- The what? The Rolling Stones and the critics and- The Rolling Stones? The Rolling Stones magazine. Oh, magazine. Yeah. Oh, what does that have to do with the domain show?

They didn't like it. What? They didn't like it. The Rolling Stone didn't like you being on the show? If you were on. You weren't cool, I see. Yeah, if you weren't on the show. Right. It's not like you comedians. Well, you had to do it. It was like, it was a rite of passage. If you're a comedian in show business, in the 80s when I came up, Johnny was everything. If you did, you could do other talk shows, but you had to do that one first.

And if you didn't do well on that one, the other ones didn't matter. And you had no career. You couldn't go on that path where then you get a sitcom, which I did. You know, there was a certain thing. It's like in a law firm. You know, I don't know what you do. You pass the bar, then you handle the cases, then they make you a partner. It was like you had to do The Tonight Show to become a partner. Right. And also, I loved it. I mean, I loved him.

Mm-hmm. He was a Midwestern fuck like you. Yeah, he was, I was around him a couple times. There used to be a place on Santa Monica. I don't know, it still might be there. And I was there a couple nights and he was there. And he was a drinker. Oh, yes, and a mean one. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember the name Bushkin? Mm-hmm. That was his lawyer, Henry Bushkin.

And he used to, in the monologue, he would always talk about, like, my lawyer, Bombastic Bushkin. Oh, yeah, yeah. Remember that? Yeah, okay. So Bombastic Bushkin, Henry Bushkin, wrote a book about Johnny like 10 years ago. It's awesome. It really rings true. Like, because it doesn't cover up the bad, but it acknowledges the good. But, you know, it does make you think about the Midwest and, like, where he came from and how...

And Bushkin says something like, Johnny's mother was as cold as that Nebraska wind. And it went through him. He never got her approval. And Bushkin also says at one point, Johnny says to him like, you know, something, something, something, because come on, you're my best friend. And Bushkin was like, we're friends? Yeah. Well, you know, you said something that, you know, I've heard this a lot in my life, I bet you have too, since I'm older than you.

Yay, someone's older than me. I know. It's a nice feeling, right? Rebook him. I know. I'm the oldest guy in the room. But, you know, people wanting their parents' approval, that never even dawned on me. Come on, really? Why? Because you didn't like them? No, there were five kids in the family, and...

Come on. You didn't want to make your father proud? Matter of fact, it was like, you know, you grew up the same year I did. Yeah. What time is dad going to be home? I'm going to make sure I'm gone. You know, what time's, you know. My father worked nights, so he was never home. That was good for you then. No, because my father wasn't, doesn't sound like he was the idiot your father was. Your father sounds terrible. My father was. If you don't want to be there when your father's there. Why? They're just people.

Yeah, but... Yeah, but what? I've never heard anybody... Like, I've never been married. I'm not exactly known as a family type guy. But even I acknowledge that there is familial roots we cannot deny. I mean, your father's in you. Yeah, yeah, I got it. We are our parents. I got it. Right. Yeah, Bill, I got that part. Yeah.

I got that part. Well, so how long did you have your father? He's still alive. Your father's still alive? 93. I talked to him today. Wow. Talk about a twist in the story. Wow. That's pretty great to have your father still alive when you're over 70. And do you talk about like prostate problems and stuff like two old people can talk? No, no, no. What are you talking about?

Uh, family. He'll tell me stuff about the family that I didn't know that this happened or that happened. So you don't dislike him? I never said I disliked him. You said you didn't want to be around when he was... I said I didn't give a fuck what they thought as a teenager. No, you said you wanted not to... Run the tape back, Bill. You're misquoting me. No, I'm not misquoting you. I said my father wasn't there because he worked nights. And you were like, lucky you. When my father came home, I tried not to be there.

Yeah, that's right. That doesn't mean I disliked him. It just meant I didn't want to have to follow his rules. Oh, what were his rules? A bunch of them. I mean, you know, you could imagine. I mean, you were there. The whole culture was shifting, and I was part of that young culture. So you were fighting authority, and authority was always winning. Yes. Right from the beginning. Something like that. Poor fucking you. Yeah, that's right.

And then you became a giant rock star. So in a way, your father, even though he didn't plan it that way, because rock and roll is- Okay, just to shut you up and set you on the right path, here's what happened with my father. I got married when I was in high school, right? They did not like that. That wasn't the plan for John. Right. Got married when I was in high school. I didn't talk, I went to college. He didn't give me a dime. Had nothing to do with me going to college. Mm-hmm.

When I got out of college, I immediately got a record deal like that. And I got a phone call from my dad. My dad was vice president of Robbins Electric, which built the Astrodome, built Disney World, Disneyland. Big contractor. Big electrical contractor. Like Del Webb. I don't even know what that is. It's another one they built a lot. Yeah. So anyway, I get a call from my dad. And he says, John, we need to get together and talk. I said, Dad, we don't really have anything to talk about.

And he said, yeah, we do. And I said, so we talked for a little on the phone. And so I agreed to meet my dad in Nashville, Indiana, which is a little town at a hotel, in a hotel restaurant. And we go there and dad's in his suit and he's driving his Jaguar, which I was totally against at that time, you know, all that crap. And we sit down in a bench, we order. And then my dad gets up out of his seat

comes over and gets down on one knee. I'm sitting here and gets down on one knee right there. And he says, John, whatever I've done that you feel was wrong for you and I held you back or I hurt you in some fashion, I apologize and I hope you forgive me. And what could I say? It was my dad.

And I said, OK. And that was probably 1975. We have not had a crossword since. But you married the girl. Yeah. I snuck off and got married. I came out of it. But he was still OK with that after that discussion? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because time had gone by. Wow. I pictured your father, Jaguar, suit. I pictured your father not knowing anything about your father.

and overalls with a pitchfork. I know, but that's kind of your image and you're farm aid and you know. - No, that's your image of me. That's not my image. - Contributed by things you've sung about. I mean, so many of your songs and I love them. I have three of them in my walk-in music when I go on the road. There's only 12 songs there. I hear them all year long. - Great, thank you. - Yeah, thank you. And one of them is "The Americans."

Really because I want to get the audience in the mood of like these are me You're the only person in the world that knows that song No, well the oh my audience does and and our country because like I'm again I'm picking songs They're not all overtly political, but I do a largely you've been to my show. Yeah political show I want the audience in the moon and so like this is our country is perfect and

I'm an American from the Midwest. You're not afraid to just say exactly who you are, which I love about you. You know, I wear jeans and I do this. So you understand that those songs like that song right there is is the idea of how we see each other, not how we really are. Which one?

Both of them. Both of them. It's not who we are, but who we... It's aspirational. Who we pretend to be. Yeah, you have one on one of your recent ones, the so-called free... The land of the so-called free. The land of the so-called free, yeah.

i mean that's cynical yeah i'm cynical right me too but i also think perspective is so important and like is anyone on earth completely free of course not relatively we're pretty free this country i mean and i say that as someone who used to a lot about the fact that pot wasn't legal among other things that make this country unfree but that was the one that affected me i deeply resented

Having to sweat bullets every time I went through an airport because some fucking dog might smell the pot behind my nuts and you know It's like this is not and of course that wasn't right and it isn't free But then you see what happens in Russia and you see what happens and you know, Saudi Arabia the fucking killer You will hold on for a second

You know, the divorce rate in the United States is higher. I mean, the divorce rate in Russia, I believe, is higher than the divorce rate in the United States. Oh, I'm sure. Why would you be sure of that? Because they're very unhappy people because...

Because Putin's running the joint. Because Putin's running the joint and also because they're drunks, they drink way too much vodka. So why did prohibition take hold in America? You know why? Yes, I know why.

Well, I'll tell the audience. Because women were fed up with men. Beating the fuck out of them. And not working and passing out on the lawn. Yeah, beating the fuck out of the kids. What? They beat the fuck out of the kids and they beat the fuck out of the women. Right. And it was like, oh shit, he's home. Ah, now you know why it's like. Did it?

My dad didn't drink, but it was just like, you know. Oh, he didn't drink? No. Oh. No, he never drank. I've never seen him smoke a cigarette. I've never seen him drink. And you didn't drink either? No. Wow. No. Never did? Oh, I did. I remember you drinking milk after the show when I saw you. Yeah, probably. No, I have a good story of why I quit drinking.

You want to hear it? We have nothing but time. And I love your stories. So I'm in college, right? I had long hair. My favorite thing to do was to get stoned and drink whiskey. Oh, you got stoned? Yeah, I used to. Good. I'd get stoned and drink whiskey and then go find the biggest guy I could find and start a fight with him. Wow. It was really fun for me. The adrenaline rush and it's like, okay, oomph.

I never won. Let's establish that. Maybe one or two out of a hundred. Oh my God. I always got my ass kicked. But one night, I went to a little college in Vincennes, Indiana, and I was with my friend. I'm loaded. I'm potted up. I'm fucking drank a pint of whiskey by myself. And I sat down at a bar next to the biggest guy I could find and spit at him. Oh, Jesus. Jesus.

So that's why I don't drink. But what happened was the guy goes, what the fuck? And so I said, you know, fuck you, you know. What are you going to do about it? He said, I'll take your little ass outside and beat the hell out of you. I said, well, let's go. So I said, why go outside? So I was a prick. You know those guys used to walk around like this and stare at you and you'd go, what the fucking? That was me. Yeah. That was me.

So anyway, we go out back. He beats the fuck out of me. I mean, I got up the next. Well, anyway, so he beats the fuck out of me. The guy that I was with comes and gets me like a wet rag, puts me in a pinto, an old pinto. We're driving back to the house we lived in. My hair was this long. You know, I was a hippie that I was not into peace and love. I was, you know. Theoretically a hippie. Yeah.

Anyway, so I'm leaning like this. He's driving. I'm leaning like this out the car window. And we go over this railroad track, and the car door opens. I fall out of the fucking car. My hair gets wrapped around the thing that connects, you know, blocks the car. And he's driving down the fucking road. He's half drunk and stoned.

And I go, stop the fucking car, stop the car. And he's dragging me down the road. Oh, my God. So I just got beat up. Then the guy I'm with is so drunk that he can't see that I have fallen out of the car. I get back to my house. I go to bed. I get up the next morning, Bill. I was unrecognizable to myself.

My orbits around my eyes, the guy had beat the shit out of me. I had road rash all over my legs. I had scratches here. And I looked at myself and I just went, this drug and alcohol thing is not working for you. I have a few questions about this. First of all, in this condition of what must have been extreme pain, you fell asleep? Yeah.

Was fucked up. I was so fucked up that you know that you know you've been drunk high enough He just went buggered. Yeah, but not after I was beaten up and dragged by beat up and no, this is my other question Well, I mean I have questions about why you felt the need to want this on you But first I'd just like to ask about the actual feeling of a fight because yes, I've avoided fight fistfights and

I don't feel like it's because I'm a total coward, but, you know, I'm not looking for fights either. And I seem to always be able to... Find one. Talk my way out of one. Yeah, I didn't think about that. I didn't. I know. You obviously sought it for no reason, which is really psychologically interesting, that you would seek to be beat up. I mean, if it wasn't another... No, no, no, no. I didn't think I was going to lose. I always thought I was going to win. Really? Yeah.

But you're not a big guy. Yeah, but I thought I was a tough guy. You're like my dog Chico. Yeah, probably. He's like this big and he just thinks he can fucking take on the world. He stands in the driveway every night for an hour and it's completely quiet here, wherever I live. And he just barks for an hour at nothing. Fuck you. I'm Chico. I'm here. And don't try any shit.

This is my house, you know, for an hour. Yeah, that's me. That was me. Okay, so... But all of that, however, all of that changed when I quit using drugs and alcohol. But what fomented this furnace of anger inside you that you would want? Melon camp. Really? You think it's the DNA? Absolutely. My uncle was the toughest guy in Seymour, Indiana.

Played football for IU. Big, tough guy. My grandfather was a big, tough guy. My dad's a big, tough guy. And, you know, it was like that was our, that's what I was taught. Well, your dad is a big, tough guy. Yeah. I hit my dad one time. I was 17, and he caught me in a big lie, you know. And at 17, my dad was only 20 years older than me. He was 37. And I thought, I can take the young man. Wow.

Punched him and he looked at me and he went, "Are you kidding me?" And he beat the fuck out of him. My life is so much less dramatic than yours. You know, I grew up on the mean streets of Bergen County, New Jersey. Okay, not mean streets, but circular driveways. I mean, we weren't rich, we weren't poor, we were like middle of the middle. And I always felt like, oh, everybody had the same upbringing.

But plainly, that's not the truth. No, you know, in the Midwest and in these small towns, there's not much to do except settle O scores. You think we lived in Shangri-La in New Jersey? It was the same thing. America's the same all over.

It really is. I mean, there's pockets that are different. Obviously, the cities. It's not really about region. It's about city or country. That's the difference in America. Even Alabama has cities. And they look and behave mostly like cities elsewhere. And the people out, even 20 miles out, then you're in Trump country. Certainly if you're in Alabama. But also, I mean, California...

All of the area of California above San Francisco till you get to Oregon is Trump country. That could be a state. It's a big, you know, California is huge. That could be a state. And it would just be, you know, Trump. It's the same in Bloomington. I mean, Indiana University is there. You've been there. That's where we met, yes. And, you know, that whole community is liberal thinking. And then you get outside of town. You know, who knows what you're going to run into. Yeah.

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There's a band called The Crepe Soul. The what? The Crepe Soul. Crepe? Like a? Like shoe. Shoe? Crepe? What's shoe? Crepe is a material that they used to put on the bottom of shoes. Well, you're educating me. I don't know. Crepe? Yeah. Anyway, have one of your work. Why is that a name for a band?

Well, there's a whole story behind that. We had three names. Crepe Soul was everybody's least favorite. We flipped a fucking coin. And if it landed in the crack of the wood, it's going to be the Crepe Soul. The thing went around, and it landed in the crack of the wood. You know, if I was in a band called Crepe Soul, I would purposely get my hair stuck in a car and get dragged down the road, because that's a terrible name. You have to back up.

I was 14 years old and everybody else in the band was in their 20s. Wow. Really? Yeah. I mean, I was going in clubs, nightclubs, fraternities, sororities, 14 years old, singing. You were like Michael Jackson in the Jackson 5. You were the young one. They knew you were the talent. Well, no, I co-sang with a kid named Fred Booker who was about four or five years older than me and he was black.

So I learned a lot about race real quick in 1965, 1966, because they loved us on stage. Because half the band was black, half was white. Wow. They loved us on stage. It's when we came off stage, when I joined the band, Bill, I was issued a gravity knife. A gravity knife? Yeah. What's that? It's kind of like a switchblade, but you just go like that. OK. And the knife pops out through gravity.

To stab other band members? No, to stab the fucking audience. Really? For the audience? Yeah, because, you know... Wow. And I was not familiar with how hateful people were to black people until I was in the Crepe's Hall. And that's what I... More than learning how to sing or to dance or anything like that, I learned about hatred. Okay, so let's go to 2023. Is that now? That's now. Okay. Like...

I'm not being naive when I write when I say that would not happen in 2023. Your ass, it would. You think so? Absolutely. Tell me why. Why do I think that? Yeah. I... Have you seen that? I have. In 2023. Yeah. And you have too. No, I haven't. Yeah, turn the fucking news on. You'll see it. See what? Racist comments. Racist... Yeah.

No doubt there are still racists in America. Absolutely. We're talking about in a city, in the music industry, and I'm guessing a fairly young crowd or a music-loving crowd. They just don't strike me as people who in 2023 say those kind of things or even feel that way. Have you ever heard a rap song? Yes. Okay. What about it?

Me and Chuck D did a song 20 years ago. 20 years ago was 20 years ago. Yeah, but we were talking about the N-word. We were talking about how it's not supposed to be used and how it's not supposed to be. I mean, that's what I have against, not against, but why I'm not a big fan of rap music. It's like you guys are selling out what the people stood up for and fought for, and you're making money off of it, seven months white kids? Right. I don't like it.

I don't like it. It's honest. Yeah, it's wrong. And so Chuck D and I did a song, and he just, I wrote the song, and then he rapped in the middle of it, and he just said die and word die. And that's right. Just give me an example, and then I'll get off this, but I'm just curious of a recent example in the last couple of years.

Specifically of an incident of racism that you saw, like on tour or something that is in this. I have a 29-year-old son. One of his best friends was black, right? They went somewhere in Los Angeles. The guy got in an argument with this little skinny black kid, waited for him to walk outside of the bar and ran him over and killed him.

How much more of a fucking example do you want? I mean, yeah. Look, I'm not denying that things like that happen in this country. I'm just saying it's not any better.

I mean, you may... Well, that's what we're arguing about. We're not arguing about anything. We're having a discussion. Well, we're disagreeing. No. And that's okay. Yeah, yeah. It's okay to disagree. You say it in one of your songs. Yeah. Freedom of speech. Yeah. Right. I wrote a song that I never recorded because I felt it was wrong, but it was called From the Fucking Cottonfields to the Plaguefields. Yeah. So my point is that, yeah, so what?

- Well, I would say that-- - Us white people love to have black people entertain us. - I would say that the playing fields are a lot better than the cotton fields. That's what I would say about that. Maybe I'm crazy, John, but it seems like making no money as a slave picking cotton was not as good as playing left field for the Yankees. I'm sure there were reasons why-- - Listen, no doubt. - Dave Winfield has some beefs against Steinbrenner, I'm sure. - No doubt there is one or two percent

of black people in America who have a better life. Oh, stop. That's what you think? One or two percent? Okay, let's say 10%. I'm just pulling a number out of my ass. It is. That's where it belongs. I just pulled a number out of my ass. I know, but I'm telling you, that's just not true. But, you know. Well, okay, well. Listen. We do have statistics. Talk to my son.

He'll tell you. Well, he saw one very horrific incident. Maybe that has colored his thinking. Well, why do you think that's the only incident that happens? Of course not. And it isn't. Again, the FBI has data on hate crimes. The FBI? Oh, they're in on it? No, they're not in on it. But it's like the government. You trust the government? I don't trust those fucking people. I'm willing to throw them. No, I've been often a skeptic of lots of things about the government.

But do I think the FBI is making up hate crime statistics? No, do I think they're exactly as they present them? No, I don't because okay if they're not making them up and they're not presenting them honestly, what are you somewhere in the middle? For example, they found out like a year ago that the coroners were kind of in cahoots with the cops and

on reporting deaths when police kill somebody. I believe it. Right. So there's, what I'm saying, I'm acknowledging it's not exactly the data that they're always giving us. And it was, yeah, it was infused with that would-be systemic racism. I'm saying we have...

Moved on from that not completely but and the FBI is not the cops So when the FBI compiles data on hate crimes, I'm like, yeah, this might be roughly where it is I don't think it's crazy off

I think they actually, I mean, I think there's mostly FBI people are squares and there's plenty of people of color in the FBI. Now, they've also had complaints about racism in the FBI. Plenty of. Yes, as there is everywhere. Plenty of cops. And they're valid. Plenty of guys, plenty of black people are ahead of.

Of police departments across the United States. And we're going to have to disagree on this bill. And we can. Yeah, I just... You think I'm going to throw you out? No, I just think that... I'm telling you... I just think that...

Being open-minded about what's really going on in the streets. As we sit here. Oh, I'm open-minded. Are you? Do you really think our government has improved since they killed Kennedy? Do you really think that Oswald killed Kennedy? You think so? Wait, wait. That's such a broad question. Our government has improved. What parts of it? Any of it.

Any of it. Any of it. No, it's pretty politically we have gone downhill. Yeah. There's no doubt about that. Absolutely. That doesn't mean people's lives are worse because culture is a different thing. And America has moved on a lot culturally, which includes race, gender, homosexuality. I mean, homosexual marriage, gay marriage was on the ballot in 35 states. Mm-hmm.

Up until about 2014, it failed in every one. And then the Supreme Court said it was the law of the land. You don't see that that is progress. You don't see that things are different. It's not perfect, but we made it. Here's my answer to that. I mean, you're so cynical. I can't believe I'm saying that. Here's my answer to that.

It's about fucking time. Okay, well, great. We'll elect you the timekeeper then. Of course it's about fucking time. Everybody's late on everything. As Joe Friday used to say on Dragnet, we're recruiting from the human race. Yes, we're all schmucks and we're all late. Obama was late on gay marriage. Kennedy was late on civil rights. Lincoln was late on slavery. Everybody's always late. Biden's late now on pot. Everybody's fucking late. Hold on for a second.

I, unlike you, do not believe a fucking single word that comes out of any of that. I just don't believe it. You don't believe gay marriage was illegal and then became legal? No, no, I believe that. Okay. But I don't believe anything that the government reports. Nothing? Like the unemployment figures? That's what Trump says. Maybe. Maybe.

Trump, when he ran the first time, I mean, it's Trump, so you have to like just use it for comic effect. But like the unemployment rate, they're saying it's 4%. It could be as high as 35%, 40%. He just pulled it right out of his ass. That's not what I'm saying. What are you saying? What do you think the unemployment rate is? I have no fucking idea. But you think it's wrong what they were telling us. What?

whatever it is, is probably a lie. So you don't trust the government? I don't trust the government. I do. You trust the government? I trust the people who work in the deep state. I trust these fucking bureaucrats. Yes, I do. The people with stale pizza on their desk and cold coffee who just do the job of making sure that your life is as cushy as it fucking is and most people's lives are because a lot of nameless, faceless people doing boring jobs do things like, yes, compile...

Data on unemployment. I do. I trust those stats generally. And so you, I suppose you trust science also, right? It depends on what science you're talking about. Bill, when we were kids... One of my main themes on... When we were kids in the 70s, we were going to enter an ice age by the year 2000. This is all scientific bullshit. Look it up. I understand. I know where you're going with this. And it's like...

What? It's not going to happen? Right now, climate change to me

It's the core of the fucking Earth heating up. I agree. I've always been on that page. And a piece of fucking plastic laying in the street is not going to make a goddamn bit of difference. We are not going to kill this Earth. It's going to kill us. Right. Well, that's what we're trying to avoid. That's what George Carlin used to say, and I never understood it or agreed with it. He used to be like,

People are worried about the earth. The earth will be fine. Yeah, the earth. It's not the fucking earth that I'm worried about. It's my ability to live on the earth. And you're right. That's what's going. Bill, you and I are two lucky fucks. Yes. We are living on the earth as... We're living. Yeah, as...

comfortable as people could ever expect to live. And part of the reason we live so comfortably is because, again, is our government shit? Yeah, in a way it never has been before. But it also is more functioning than most places on earth. I mean, the toilets flush, the roads are paved. Bill, the reason you and I are living the life that we live is because ultimately and finally, we don't give a fuck. Right.

I give a fuck. No, you don't. About what? About anything. I give a fuck about a lot of things. I don't give a fuck about anything. I give a fuck about staying healthy. I give a fuck about keeping my job. When I say I don't give a fuck, I mean I don't care if the guy in front of me doesn't take off the minute the light turns green. But some people do. Ha ha!

I've been in L.A. for 10 days. I've heard more fucking corn honking on the light has turned red than I've heard in the last five years in Indiana. I thought you were going to say something super profound. No. And you did like a Woody Allen on me. Yeah. Like when Woody Allen would be like, I don't know the meaning of the universe, but they've got to figure out alternate street of the parking on Wednesday. You don't even just do one of those kind of jokes. Yeah. Well, yeah.

You know, we did a new rule on this, but it really is a real thing. They should build into the traffic light a horn honk.

Because, no, really, because you have to honk because everyone cannot help but look at their phone in the one half of a minute that they have because they're so important. They need to check. Do you? No. I don't either. Of course not. Hold on for a second. I don't even have a fucking phone. Well, you own one, don't you? I own one, but I don't. It's for my convenience. Oh, that's why I can't get ahold of it. That's not one.

But it's for my convenience. It's not for... Right. Me too. I have a girlfriend. And I look and I go, what the fuck are you doing on that phone? I can't believe that. You have a girlfriend? It's hard to believe. She has a really... Who's your girlfriend? She has a really high...

Who's your girlfriend? Threshold for tolerance. Who's your girlfriend? You don't know her. Yeah, I know. Describe her. I'm saying, who is she? She's a beautiful 57-year-old woman that I met about who just walked into my apartment in New York unexpectedly. Walked into your apartment? Yeah, she was with some friends. Oh, I see. She was with a couple of friends. She walked in. She didn't know I was going to be there. I didn't know she was going to be there. And we met each other. How long ago was this?

Seven months ago. And she has not left my side in seven months. Well, of course, you're in the golden period. You know, people are always talking about relationships. You know, they're good for at a certain time. And I'm always like, spoiler alert, the beginning. You know, it's not a mystery why. There's nothing like seven months, right? Yeah. Listen, it's been great. She's not, you know, I have no, absolutely, I mean, I, she's never even, I mean,

got angry at me then. You've been around me, what, 20 minutes? And already... I am not angry. I'm loving every minute of it. And you're already pissed off. I am not pissed off. I'm thrilled you're here. Totally thrilled. I'm so appreciative, really. Because I thought we were friendly there for a while. Like, you came to my show, I came to your show, and then we stopped dating. Yeah.

No, I think it's the number thing. One of us changed our number. It was me? Yeah, I think so. I think so. You know, I am bitching, bitching, bitching, and then it's me. Typical. Yeah, I've had the same phone number for 150 years. Oh.

Do you know that my sister lives in a condo that my mother moved in after my father died with my sister? And they kept the number that we had in the house when I was a child. And my sister still has the number I had when I was two years old. Dang, that's wonderful. Yeah. I think that's great. But it is almost like you wish you could preserve that. It's almost a kind of an artifact of time. It's just a phone number.

But do you do you remember the phone number that you had when you were a kid? I'm telling you, my sister still has it. I know. Oh, of course. But you want me to say it on the air? No, no. I'm just saying. Of course. It's like it's like after my Social Security number is my identity. Ask a young person your Social Security number. Yeah. Yeah.

They don't know what Social Security is. There's no need for it because there won't be any when they get there. No, but there is a need to not raise an entire generation of nudniks who just... I'm not talking about IQ. I'm sure they still have IQs. But they just don't learn anything. Anything. Like, they're just...

The collapse of our educational system is truly stunning. I mean, they do talk about it a lot in the present, but I think when we look back on this time, it will be stunning to historians how far we let it go down. I mean, there was a time when people would graduate high school knowing like Greek and Latin. Oh, yeah. You had to have it to get into college. I mean, they wouldn't, even when I went, when we went,

You couldn't get out. They wouldn't give you the diploma to get out of high school unless you knew some shit, like basic shit in life. Like you had to have passed math and, you know, English and science. And I feel like when I talk to younger people, they don't know anything.

Like, certainly not history. I cannot speak on that because there were 325 kids in my graduating class at Seymour High School. Seymour? And I graduated 286th.

I was seven out of 410. Show off. Deal with that, you bitch. Show off. Show off. Seven. We would have picked on you in high school. Oh, you totally would. You totally would. We would have been picking on you in high school. I was picked on. Really? I spent my whole life, my whole life, my whole school life nervous.

Because I was not the kid who was most picked on, but I was sometimes picked on. Why? I was like the alternate pick on kid. Like when they got tired or for some reason they drove that kid to like staying home or something, they would, there's no reason. Kids are feral. Kids are, that's the book, The Lord of the Flies. You know that book? Why were they picking on you? Do you read The Lord of the Flies? Yeah, I know the story. Yeah.

I love it when you're fed up with me. I got it. I'm with you. Anyway, well, that's how kids are. Kids are worse than Nazis. They are. I mean, kids have to be taught. I know, but you're not answering the question. Why? I am answering the question. I'm saying there's no reason why they pick on a kid. You know why? Because they somehow sense, because they don't know shit, but they sense weakness. And they go, oh, let's exploit that. Huh.

Okay, that's my point. And you just asked me 20 minutes ago, you go, well, why did you fight all the time? Because somebody started picking on me. If I couldn't fucking whip him, my two friends and me could. So after a while, nobody picked on me. I mean, it's great to have a Joe Pesci personality. I'm not denying that's a great thing, and I wish I had it, but I just, I don't have that personality. I mean, I...

Yeah, and maybe it's because of that upbringing. Maybe because I was so scared. I always had a knot in my stomach going to school. Never. I never had one. Never. I couldn't wait to get to school. We should do a road version of The Odd Couple. You are a perfect Oscar. I'm a perfect Felix. Right? I guess so. You know The Odd Couple. Yes, but I think...

I saw the fucking movie. I'm talking to you like you're one of those teenagers who doesn't know anything. Yes, I've seen the movie numerous times. But you are exactly that guy, the smoking. Perfect. What? No, for Oscar, he was the rough-hewn, you know, and Felix was the personic, sort of, you know, like, sort of semi-intellectual, you know,

What did he say, I'm stupid? No, Oscar was not stupid. But he was rough. And yeah, I mean-- Now listen, admittedly, I am a walking contradiction. Everybody is. Yeah, but I really am. Yeah, you know what? Whenever a reviewer of like a biography wants to just hand it in and get back to the bar,

Make your theme. He was a contradiction. Every fucking human is a contradiction. It's the easiest, most cliche thing to hang on your biography. Janice, you know the Roman goddess that has the two faces? We often see the mask. Yes, Bill. Yes, Bill, I know.

Forget the odd couple. This is more like the Sonny and Cher show. And I think I'm Cher. I'm you, I'm definitely Cher. Yeah, because I'm taller. You're not taller than me. Oh, I'll take out just enough to beat you. No, no. No, no. All right. I guess when the show ends and we're able to get up. You got to take those fucking girly high shoes off. Girly high shoes. How tall are you? 5'9". You're 5'9"? Yeah. Oh, then you're taller than me. I'm 5'8". Well.

I might be 5'8 now. I might be 5'8 now. Do you think we shrink when we get older? We absolutely do. Oh, shit. Yeah. When does it start? Let me ask you a question. At 70, I'm hoping. Let me ask you a question. What do you give a fuck?

What do you give a fuck if you're 5'8", 5'9", 5'7"? I don't give a shit. Well, I mean, it would have been nicer if I was 6'2", but God fucked up. No, no, no. God fucked up. Do you imagine? I was supposed to be 6'2". No. We put in the request. No, no, no. Yes, they prayed on it. What is so great about 6'2"? I used to see 6'2". It's better. No, it's not. How do you figure that?

Because chicks like it better. No, they do not. Well, they don't. It's not a deal breaker, but yes, in general, they would rather you be six two. No, they would not. Why are you wrong on everything? Of course they would. You're speaking from the position of a privileged, you were a giant rock star. Of course they didn't care you were 5'8". You could have been 2'8". Prince got more pussy than anybody and he was three feet tall. You could carry

him in your hand on the- Bill, Bill, why are you using those words around me? I'm not cursing around you. What cursing? Using the word pussy. I mean, that's- Who's a pussy? You said they got more pussy and I'm going, why are you using- Oh, yeah, they got more pussy. Yeah, well- What, you can't say pussy? Oh, no, I'm above that. I'm sure you were above it many thousands of times. As my point, you're a rock star. So yes, they don't care how tall you are.

And you still got that pompadour. That's awesome at your age. I got to give it to you for that. But you can still get your hair to look the John Mellencamp look. No, I used to have my hair over my eyes. That, not, who knows? No one liked that. This was your best look. It was? Yes, and you still kind of got it. I still do. Yeah. My girlfriend likes it. Hey, you're the king of age appropriate. See, I'm the opposite. What are you talking about?

57 is age appropriate. You're a big hero for that to women. I'm a villain. What are you, like, dating teenagers? No, not teenagers. That would be ridiculous.

You would if you could, though. No, no, no. You know that song Sealy Dan has, Hey 19? Yeah. What do you think of it? I think it was written in a different time. I was just talking to somebody the other day, and I said, listen to the lyrics to this song. And it says, hello, clit, put both your feet on the stick. I can see that you're only 15 years old, but I don't want your ID. And I thought, what?

He wrote that today. Oh, all of early rock was just, Will Ferrell once did a hysterical bit on SNL where he was like a, they were selling tapes of the 50s rock singers. Every song was like, you're 12 years old and I want to, it was just, and they just didn't care. Even when I was a kid, like first listening to music in 1968, Gary Puckett and the Union Gap had a big hit with Young Girl. Yeah.

Get out of my life. Get out of my mind. Mind, yeah. My love for you was way out of line. And he says in the song, my love is way out of line, and no one cared. No one tried to stop it. No one thought it was a record that should be pulled. You saw Almost Famous. Yes, of course. That's the way it was. Before there were computers, you remember that? Yeah.

Very much. Okay. I was late to computers. So was I. And email. I don't even have one. You don't have email? No. I can barely keep up with text. You skipped right to texting. Yeah, I just texted. God damn it. But back then, there used to be a page in the back of the book that gave the age of consent in every state.

for the band to know what the age of dissent was. You mean the Rockstar's Guide to America? No, it was our tour books. OK, you're staying in this hotel. Right.

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Hey, Texas, I'm coming to see you live in person. First, Austin, Friday, September 1st. I'll be at the ACL Live at the Moody Theater in downtown Austin. Then on Saturday, September 2nd, I'm coming to the Texas Trust CU Theater in Grand Prairie, Texas between Dallas and Fort Worth, but you know that.

And then Friday, September 15th, and Saturday, September 16th, the David Copperfield Theater at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Get your tickets at the link on our channel or go to BillMaher.com. There was a woman who came out probably when, at the time that David Bowie died, which was like six years ago. Right. And...

She said that she lost her virginity to David Bowie. And she was underage. I think she was 15 or something, 16. But she went to great lengths to emphasize that it was not a bad experience at all, that she doesn't regret it.

She described him as a gentle, considerate, knowledgeable lover, and he was wearing a kimono. So this chick loses her virginity to David Bowie in a kimono, and he's good. Of course, the usual suspects were all over this, because how could she know better than we about what's appropriate and what feels good? And no, you shouldn't change the law.

so that people can have sex with someone under age, but also acknowledge one person's personal story. It is not always, apparently, a nightmare. Let's make it the David Bowie law. If you can do it with David Bowie... You can do it with anybody. But, you know, our great-grandparents and stuff, people were getting married at 14, 14, 15 years old. And...

Yeah, maybe in your part of the country. But I mean, yes. No, I had a housekeeper that I think she got married when she was 13. And she was still married. She was an older woman. And she got married when she was 13. Now, there are people who have grandkids at 40. I did.

A grandkid at 40? I had one at 36. You had a grandkid at 36? I just told you a little bit ago that I got married when I was a senior in high school. Okay, but I didn't know you quickly had a kid. Why do you think I got married? He goes, oh, I want to get married. When I was in high school, yeah, there was like she was pregnant, and she was five years older than me. You know, three of the Beatles did that.

Did what? Married the girl because they got her pregnant. They did the right thing. So you're in good company is what I'm saying. Well, I'm telling you that there were a lot of people that did that besides me and the Beatles. Yes. No, no. Just because you were having sex at that age doesn't mean. I thought it was just you and the Beatles. No. Whoa. Mind blown. Okay, but.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know where you're hitting around. So that is a mind-blowing. I think I was 36. 36 to be a grandfather. Yeah, I think so. So how old was your kid when she had a baby?

19 or 20. 19. 19 or 20. Isn't it interesting the way families go in cycles? You know, the sins and the attributes that are good seem to carry on over to the next generation. I mean, when it's bad, of course it's bad because cycles like of abuse continue through generations. Not to defend R. Kelly, because I don't, but he was abused, you know, as a kid.

And that's not uncommon, that abusers were abused. Yeah, that word abuse gets thrown around pretty fucking... That's true, too. Pretty loosely, you know? Yeah. I mean, I... I agree. I think that... I need to see a finger in the asshole to...

I don't know what that means either. You don't know what figure in the asshole means? And you're the rock star? Oh, I think you very much know what it means. There's not a swimming party after this, is there? I mean, rock. There's not a swimming party after this. There is a pool. No, dream on. Okay, I have a question for you. Yeah. So I watch your show. I know, thank you. And

I see you press your belt buckle all the time. Press it? Yeah. You do this. I do? And you get busy with this hand and then all of a sudden... Is this during the monologue? Yeah. What are you pressing on your belt buckle? You know what? First of all, thank you for telling me that. Because I have a terrible habit, which is unprofessional. Mostly I'm very professional. I don't watch myself. You should. You should watch your own show. See what you're doing right or wrong.

So when I get a piece of information like this, it's very valuable. So I thank you. Because I don't know I'm doing that, and I don't want to be doing that. It looks like... Looks like what? It looks like... That's terrible, doesn't it? No, no. It looks like you're controlling the teleprompter. Oh, my God. It looks like you're controlling... Because you're going like... I don't, but what a great idea. Put a remote in my dick...

It's like right here and you'll be talking but it's always this hand, you're always right and then you go like that. And I think, is he pushing a fucking button to control the teleprompter? No. Because it'll go from one set up, you complete that and then you'll do that, boom, and then you're back.

And then you're talking some more, and then you do something with this hand to draw attention like a magician, and then all of a sudden this hand is on that belt buckle again. I think he's controlling the teleprompter. You trust me, right? Yeah, yeah. I'm not doing that, but I'm totally going to do that. It's genius. But it must be, you know what it is, I think, when I do that, because it's stupid and lame, excuse me,

I think the director probably cuts away at that moment and misses it. So, like, I'm still touching my belt buckle. He's not. Okay. But I'm not. Buddy, I'm just telling you. He's not cutting away. Exactly. That's my point. Because I caught it and so did my girlfriend. He's a great director, but he can't cover for, like,

somebody who's doing a stupid tick on the air. So when I get back to work, if that ever happens, if this strike gets ever resolved,

I can't wait to address that. And you will not see some belt buckle pushing, my friend, in the future. All you got to do is watch a couple monologues and you'll see it. I won't. It's the problem. But I appreciate you telling me because that's what friends do. What is the one thing that people like us who have everything we could have ever dreamed of...

What do we value above all else? Honesty, right? And that's the difference between me and you. You give me a truth that's like a gift. I have everything I need. I have 12 motorcycles. Wait, no, I don't. I don't do stupid shit like that. But I got a nice place to live. I got friends. Give me a piece of truth, and it's better than a covered dish. Well, I, on the other hand, don't trust anybody.

Don't believe anybody. Come on. Yes, you do. No. You believe me. Don't you believe me? Everything I'm saying that at least I believe? I believe. You don't think I'm faking anything, do you? I believe that you believe what you're saying. Well, that's enough. That's all we can ever do. Yeah. That's all we can ever do. Look, Bill. You can't ask for more. Just because we think something doesn't make it true. No, of course not. Well, but most people think because they do think it.

that, you know, George Bush was like a great president because they think that Trump is, because they think it,

That doesn't make it true. Well, I agree with that and I agree with the example, but of course it happens on the other side too. Lots of people on both sides think stuff that isn't true, but they just want to believe it. And unfortunately we live in a media world where they know they can make money feeding your myth back to you. Oh yeah. On both sides. Yeah. Used to be just one side. I used to be able to say Fox News and their bubble.

But there's two bubbles now. I mean, it was inevitable. People in a bubble are going to create their own bubble. Yeah. Yeah. Or a different bubble. I don't know. But there's too many bubbles. Yeah. I mean, there's basically two. But I feel like, you know, we used to have a country that was so much more communal. Just media, for example. We all watched. There was only three channels.

And it was only a half hour long. I mean, Ed Sullivan was a variety show because you had to do something for everybody because that's what the whole family watched. Mom and dad and the kids. So for mom, there was like Robert Goulet's. And for dad, I don't know, there was like fucking Jugglers or some shit. And for the kids, now here's Creedence Clearwater Revival. Yeah. Here's young John Mellencamp doing his big hit.

Hurts so great. Yeah. Something like that. If you had done Ed Sullivan, that's my... You were a little too young to do Ed Sullivan. But I watched it. Yeah, but we watched it. And we all watched it together. And I feel like we're so divided. Nobody has the same common experience. Everybody gets their own news feed. Like your personal... Well, how about this? How about instead of talking about...

these mass shootings in schools, that we start showing it. Show those kids. Show what a bullet looks like going through a fucking five-year-old kid's head. That's what changed the Vietnam War. Yeah. They started showing... You're right. They started showing...

and what was happening to 18-year-old kids. And all of a sudden it was like, whoa, wait a fucking minute. Until, if you're going to change the gun laws, start showing this shit. Don't say, and 18 kids were murdered. Because that just goes in and out. Because we're numb to it. But if we see it, that's going to change everything. The gun lobby will be like, fuck, we're fucked. So the news, a bunch of fucking cowards show it.

You're talking about it. You're giving us numbers. Right. Show it. And you think they have the footage? Of course they do. Yeah, they could shoot it. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, you walk in, the fucking cops walk in there and it's like they're shooting everything. Right. It's there. They've got it. But show it. It ended Vietnam. Well, I can tell you what would happen if they did show it. Every politician would tweet out that their thoughts and prayers...

I said it in one of my songs. Yes, you did. I said, your thoughts and prayers are not going to help the fucking homeless. Right. Not going to help the homeless. So knock it off with that shit. Matter of fact, when I play that song in concert, I sometimes stop and I go, it just pisses me off when I hear that. Your thoughts and prayers. Fuck you. I mean, if we are really going to be comprehensive on the gun issue, I would certainly...

agree with that thing about showing it but there has to be much more comprehensive realistic view of why we have all these shootings among kids and it guns is a piece of the puzzle but it's there's also guns in movies and

The glorification of using guns in media. But they've, the woke have just, like their issue on this is just guns. And it's just, it's also the drugs the kids are on. I mean, RFK talks about this and they're like, that's a crazy conspiracy theory. It is not a crazy conspiracy theory that in the last couple of generations, they put kids on all these psychotropic drugs. Arianna Huffington became famous talking about this one issue.

On my show first and everybody's show in the 90s, the kids were on Prozac. You get kids on a drug, they're going to be on one kind of drug or another for the rest of their lives. You can't imagine my childhood if my mind had, all I had to deal with. All I'm saying is that a good place to start is to get these fucking guns away from people.

Just because it's the Second Amendment. And people go, you can't change the Second Amendment. Fuck, you can't. It's an amendment. Change it. Of course. But be realistic. That's never going to happen in America. If they start showing these fucking kids laying there dead, it will. I don't think so. I don't think the people who love guns, love them...

on a level that we can't understand. It's primal. It's not just something that's an issue. It's personal. It's in your house. You touch it, you know? It's like pot smokers are with pot, you know? It's very in our personal space. And the idea of taking it away, I mean, liberals are always in a disadvantage with this issue because it's not a visceral issue to say, you know, guns are bad.

It's visceral to be like, this thing I like, they're going to take from me. I don't think you're ever going to change that. They're not going to rewrite the Second Amendment. Listen, listen. Well, my point is, is that if you show what's really going on, it'll become like stoplights.

I don't want to stop at a fucking stoplight. That's always the stoplight with you. But there it is. I got to fucking stop. And then people start honking. And people start fucking honking because they have no patience. Because you're looking at your goddamn phone. That's right. Because you're so important. That's right. See, that's what the really important thing to know about America, John, is that everyone in America is very important. Well, and you know, and you know, want to know something? Got to check that phone. You want to know something? And they are.

But however, however, however, there has to be a certain amount of respect for other people and humanity that just right now is not existing. That's radical thinking, my friend. I'm a radical. You kind of are. You're a rebel. I told the president they wanted me to do a benefit. Which president? I'm not going to mention him. Not the current one. Not the current one or the one before. But before that.

And he wanted me to do something for him and I just said, "Hey man, you're just not fucking liberal enough and I don't believe you're going to change anything." And he never liked me after that. I don't blame him. Sounds like it was Obama. I played at Obama's inauguration. See, I'm a big Obama fan because I feel like he's realistic and I'm realistic.

I feel like your philosophy is less realistic. How do you figure? I'm the most logical guy I know. Logic. Yeah. Logical. I mean the logic of perspective. Yes, we have aspirations toward things, and then we have realistic ability to get to a certain place that's not the perfect place. Obama used to say, let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

I get it. I know you do. I get it. But here's my point. There is logic and there's emotion. And the problem is, is that people marry those things together. Can't be that way. It's like believing in Jesus. Right. That's an emotional decision. Okay. I feel like it's an emotional decision of yours to say that you can't trust the Department of Labor to tell me what they are. They're the government.

See, that to me is emotional and not very logical. It's broad. It's very broad. It's not really doing the work of getting into the weeds. Oh, the government is terrible. Let's get in the weeds. Bill, get in the weeds and find out just how corrupt they are. That's exactly what's going to happen. I feel like the Department of Labor...

Again, there's a lot of nerds, government, sincere government nerds working at a job. They're not like faking the labor statistics. They're not, oh gosh, let's say unemployment is 3% because we love Biden so much. Yeah, but you don't think so? No, I don't. Okay, why? Why?

Why? Because the economy bears out what they say and people in the government who have no reason not to use those statistics to make their arguments about one issue or another about the government. We can't make arguments without data.

Without knowing what's real first. You're saying we don't know what reality is. By the way, that's what the Trump people say. We can't trust anything. That's QAnon. We can't trust anybody. It's all a conspiracy. And that's not just, that's not even real. That's paranoid. That's too cynical. No, no.

Or. Or. Let me finish. Or, go ahead. Or not. Or not is right. No, there's no or not. That's my position. No, no. Okay. No, I think some politicians are honest people and they go into it being honest.

But when they all get together, you know? Oh, it's a corrupt business. Of course. Once they get together, it's like cops. The issue is not whether politics is corrupt or not. The issue is what would be better? Clubbing each other to see who leaves the world as we did in days of yore? No. Most of the things we have...

are like, yeah, we tried something else and yeah, this is very imperfect, but it works better than communism, which doesn't work at all. That's a true nightmare.

And people in America, in capitalist, democratic... Have you ever read the Communist Manifesto? Of course not. Why? You should read it. I get the gist. Oh, you get it. I do. No, no, you need to read it. The Communist Manifesto? Yeah, you need to read it. You know, on your recommendation, I will. Is it long? No.

Have somebody read it to you. It's pretty short, right? Yeah, have somebody read it to you. Yeah, it's basically I want your stuff. No. You have stuff and I want it. No. Yes, it is. No. That's not what it says. That's the whole book. I guarantee I'm going to do this. I'm going to send you a book report and I better get an A-. Well, I think you'll find out that it's not...

It's not anything close to what we're seeing. Let's say we're making it into a movie. Give me the highlights. Give me the pitch for the Communist Manifesto. We got the biggest. They already did that. We got Leo to play Mark. They've already covered that. They've already made it. What movie? I don't know. I'm sure they have. No. But Karl Marx was a miserable human being. Join the fucking club.

Right, but I mean, like, they teach the communist manifesto. Goddamn country right now is miserable. No, I'm just saying, because like Karl Marx, who was like a horrible homophobe and a racist and like all, it checks all the boxes of what the woke hate the most. He is like the third most taught economics person that they teach in colleges in America. Something like that. I may not have that exactly right, but he is widely taught.

And he really was horrible in all the ways that we now know makes a person kind of horrible. Right. But if you just read what's on the page. You think he's right? I didn't say that. I can see where he's coming from. I'm open-minded enough to go, well, maybe. I can see where he's coming from, too. Germany, which produces morose people.

He was very morose, you know, about... Because a lot of life, you know, life is winners and losers, and you don't even know why... Who winds up on either side. It's very arbitrary. I mean... Yeah, every 50 years, those guys fuck something up. I got it. Wait, what? Who? The Germans. Every 50 years. Oh, the Germans. They fuck something up. Every 50 years. Do you know the...

You must know the Tom Lehrer album. That was the year that was. It was a famous comedy album by this Harvard professor, Tom Lehrer. He wrote and performed. He played piano in a nightclub. He was a Harvard professor, but he wrote these genius songs. They're from 1964, and they're still funny, and they're still sometimes relevant. And one of them was about...

I mean, this is 1964. The war was only over 19 years. But we were very friendly with Germany. And one of his lines was, once the Germans were warlike and mean, but that couldn't happen again. We taught them a lesson in 1918, and they've hardly bothered us since then. But every 50 years, they do something fucked up. That's my point. And I did it in song.

Mm-hmm. But what I'm saying, you know, if you, I guess you've seen this and heard it. If you ask that machine that a lot of people have in their house and you can ask. AI? No, Siri or something. Alexa. Alexa. If you could, you ask Alexa when the next world war started. You've seen all this shit? Well, I know AI just lies. Do you know that? No. They just make shit up.

Like that's one of, that is like the biggest. - Oh, it's just like the government. - Exactly, just like the internet. - Yeah, yeah. - Just like people, 'cause it was programmed by people. But this is, as of this moment, I'm sure they'll work out the bugs, or I don't know, maybe they won't, but as of this moment, that's the biggest problem with AI,

is that you can ask it a question and it will give you an answer as if it's very, oh, well, we are AI, we know everything. And then you check it out and it's like, oh, no, this is not just slightly erroneous. This is like made up out of whole cloth.

That is a great question as to why that's happening why that's the biggest problem with AI plainly It has something to do with who programmed it the internet. Yeah, the internet is a bunch of bullshit errs and liars and They taught a so until they fix that I don't trust AI for anything unless they figure out something health-wise in which case We're both gonna love AI because it's gonna help both of us how because

He says with a cigarette in his hand. Because they'll figure out how to fix you when all the stupid shit you did to yourself comes back to haunt you. I've been, I'm trying to say, Bill, you're kind of like saying one thing with one hand and something else with the other. And you don't trust this, you don't trust that. But you love the government.

Why is everything so black and white with you? I don't love the government. I'm saying the government is the least bad option. Perfect is not on the menu. Of course not. Okay. So then you have to make a- All right, so start showing the fucking dead kids laying on the goddamn street instead of just giving us numbers. What dead kids? The dead kids laying in the classroom. Oh, the classroom. Yeah, start showing us that.

Show it to us. Okay, we agree on that point. I know, but- We both want to see dead kids. But my point is that when the truth lays there in front of you, people will make the right decision. People will? Yeah. You have faith in people like that? Happened in Vietnam.

Well, yes. Bill, have you driven down the roads here and seen the fucking rows and rows and rows of all the military guys that were killed in World War II over what? World War II? Yeah, World War II Vietnam. You don't think we needed to fight World War II? I don't think we need to fight any fucking war. Not World War II, the one against Hitler and Tojo? No.

Those fucking people should have just battled out amongst themselves. Well, they weren't battling out amongst themselves. They were allies. They were dividing up the world. Were they going to come and get us? Yes! No! There's a book called 1964. Yeah. You know the book? Yeah, I know the book. You know everything. I cannot tell you anything. What's it about? What's 1964 about?

Was this George Orwell's book? No, that's not. That's 1984. Okay. No, I don't know 1964. 1964 was a big book, I don't know, like 25 years ago. It posited that Hitler had won the war. And yes, then took over America. And it was America in 1964 that had been under Nazi occupation for 20 years. That's what that book is about. And yes, it could have happened. If Hitler wasn't insane,

If he had not started a two-front war, that could have very well have happened. If somebody would have let him into art school, there would have been no war at all. Well, that, yes, right. I mean, that is very possible. Yeah. I mean, if somebody would have let that guy into art school. Or if he sold a painting. Or anything. But he didn't. Right. You know, what's interesting is that you know who was born in the same year as Hitler and in a way has a parallel life?

Charlie Chaplin. Well, Chaplin, Hitler loved Chaplin. That's why he grew that. Hitler loved Chaplin until Chaplin pissed Chaplin off so much. That he made the movie, The Great Dictator. That's right. That's right. Because he was like, oh my God. So Hitler's mustache because he saw it on Charlie Chaplin? That's right. He didn't have it. That makes sense. And I never knew that. Yeah. That's what that's all about.

He loved Chaplin. Everybody loved Chaplin. He was a star on a level that is almost unimaginable. I know, I mean, Taylor Swift is now on a level that's like really quite, I mean. How do you, let me ask you a question. How do you feel about,

about legacy and all that stuff. Legacy? My own? Yeah, yours, Charlie Chaplin's. Well, you name it. Those are very different legacies, but I mean, I would love to be thought of as, well, the great comedians of the entire world, Chaplin, Bill Maher. Yes, that would be appropriate, but that's never going to happen. But no. But I

I mean, legacy, if you're talking about something after I'm gone, I'm not talking about, we're not always talking about you, Bill. I'm just, well, it's not always about you, though. What is the, well, then what? Okay, I'm listening. Which I don't like, which I don't want to do, but I'll do it. Not always about me. Go ahead.

But my point is... I'm waiting. Okay, I give up. Uncle. Well, let's talk about your legacy. Is it about you? I don't care. What legacy are we talking about? If it's not me or you, whose legacy are we... I don't give a fuck. I don't either. But you said me. If it's not about me or you, whose legacy are we talking about? I'm just saying there's no legacy. Of anybody? No. Well, there is legacy that the people who live on after...

Yes, you don't think there's people who like, say Mr. Jesus Christ. Hold on for a second. You just said a minute ago, if you said Ed Sullivan to a kid today, he wouldn't know who the fuck he was. Yeah. Well, they know who Jesus Christ is.

He's very famous. One. Okay, but I'm just saying. Look, I don't even fully know. Nobody does, actually, whether there actually was a historical Jesus. He may not have lived at all. But you can't deny that his legacy lived on. One. Not just one. One. Okay, we have one. We have him. We have Steve Jobs. No. No.

No, the iPhone did not change things? I'm not saying he didn't change shit. Okay, well, that's a legacy. He has a legacy. For two or three decades,

Okay, sing me one Glenn Miller song. Glenn Miller. Come on. Glenn Miller was my father's... So what? I'm just saying. What's your point about Glenn Miller? He was as huge as the fucking Beatles. Yes, he was. Okay. Yes, he was. He was huge. For the kids who don't know. Okay, but you and I cannot... Glenn Miller was a band leader. Yeah. This was the era of the 40s.

Bands, that was it. And a band leader who played an instrument. Tommy Dorsey, who's the clarinet. Regardless of who they were. Just hum me one fucking song. I'm just saying Glenn Miller was one of those big band leaders. Do you actually think that I think so much of myself that just two decades from now, anybody's going to give a fuck about any song that I ever wrote? I will. Didn't he die in a plane crash?

I don't know. Glenn Miller? Yeah, I think he did. I think he did. I think it was a wartime, like he was going to entertain the troops or something. I think you're right. That's if a guy playing a trumpet was entertaining. What was wrong with those people? And they were dancing to it. Yes. And it was two decades ago, two or three decades ago. Well, that was more than that. It was almost 100 years ago, Glenn Miller. Really? Yes. By the time the 50s came around,

It was Pablum, but it wasn't big band music anymore. It was Patti Page and Frank Sinatra and stuff like that. A lot of vocalists and... Bill. What? That's before my time. And then, of course, mid-50s, you have Elvis. Bill, let me ask you a question. What? Where are we right now? 2023. No, no, no. Where are you and I at right now? Club Random? No. We're on a great big fucking rock.

going around the sun. It's arrogant as fuck for us to sit here and talk about what you think and what I think is important. It's just not. Nobody gives a shit. I don't think we're under the illusion that we are. We're on a big rock going around the sun. It's been going around the sun for fucking millions of years.

What we say and do doesn't amount to shit. You want your kids to live comfortably on it, don't you? My kids are going to live very comfortably. Thank you. So you don't think environmental disaster is looming? Where? On Earth, the one we live on. I think that there are people making a lot of fucking money. That's why we don't have supersonic planes. You know that story, right?

If your point is that the people who profit from

there being environmental catastrophe lie to us sometimes and exaggerate sometimes I agree okay that doesn't mean they're also isn't environmental catastrophe looming what the problem here is that people in this country they all think they have the answer I couldn't be wrong so therefore it's okay if I lie or cheat in service of the cause because I'm just so sure

that Trump won the election. I can lie about it. Okay, whatever. So yes, there is people lying about the environment, but it also is a real thing. Yeah, yeah, listen. And it's going to get us. I don't know. It's going to get us. Just population will get us. I mean, I don't understand these people, like Elon Musk is one of them, who they talk like, we need more people. More people would be great.

And we already have too many people. And then they say, well, look, fly over the country. You could see how empty it is. It's not about we have room for them, but we all use stuff, you know, like resources. That's what we don't have enough of. Just that is going to fuck us. Just more people. Here's the point. We do have resources. We're just not using them. What are you talking about? Like what? Like what resources? Like how can you grow more water?

In China, there's tons of fucking cities.

that have millions of people, they're taking sea water and changing it over. They can do that right here in California, but you cocksuckers are too tight and don't want to spend the money to do it. You'd have more fucking water, you would have to steal it from Nevada, and you would have water out the ass. I will have you know that at least 10% of us are not cocksuckers. Not strictly speaking. Metaphorically, perhaps. But that's the truth.

They-- Well-- You can change-- You're not going to get me to defend California. I'll put it that way. You can-- look, I mean, the homeless-- And I love California, but it is a ridiculous state. The homeless situation here and across-- I travel all-- just like you-- travel all-- I see it everywhere. See what everywhere? The homeless. Yes. And we used to have laws that we enforced called vagrancy. Yes.

that we just seem to ignore now. Right. Nobody enforces it. And there are ways, humane ways, of helping. Look, if you want to blame somebody, I blame Reagan. Always a safe... Well, he's the guy that did away with, you know... He didn't help.

Yeah, he said, well, we're going to tear down all these old mental institutions. We're going to build new ones and privatize them. And we're going to tear down all these prisons that are run by the state. And we're going to privatize them. You're so right about that. I forgot about that. Yes, that's when it started that he...

Too many people who should have been in institutions were let out. Well, and they were going to build private, they figured out how to make money off the prisons. And so they, that's why there's so many black people in jail. And in your free world for the black, that's why the prisons are full of black, young black men because they can't afford to defend themselves. So every empty bunk is- And some committed crimes.

Yeah, thank God for prisons. I agree with you. But there's a lot of guys that are in prison for a half ounce of marijuana today. No, there are too many black people, I'm sure, in prison still today who are there because they didn't commit crimes or committed crimes that white people commit that white people didn't pay for. That still goes on and that's the kind of place, of course, racism still exists.

But that's different than, you know, there are more police interactions with black people. That's just a fact. So more of them are going to wind up in prison. You can't get out of, what? Here's the thing. An empty bunk in prison is making no money. Get somebody in these bunks. Let's say that each bunk that has a person in it is worth $100,000.

And they spend $30,000 supporting these guys who are in prison for whatever. And that's like, what, $60,000, $70,000 profit? But they just couldn't figure out how to make money off the mental institutions. How the fuck are you going to make money off this? This is the pathology of the Republicans. Similarly, Trump, for pennies, could have kept alive the...

sparsely staffed crews that we had overseas to keep their eye on possible arising infectious diseases.

Can't remember the names their bureaucratic letters, but we had group we had one in Wuhan China mm-hmm and because you know, they didn't find a Virus that year Trump looked at the budget and went get rid of this. It's not making money for us though What do we need it for yet? Because for pennies you could have stopped something that cost us six trillion dollars and

Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I agree 100%. But what I'm saying is that there are humane ways of getting these people off the streets, protecting them against themselves. I just saw an interview with some woman who's living on the streets here in L.A. And she says...

I don't want to get off the streets. I get up in the morning, I get fucked up, I have sex, then I eat a little something, and then I get high again, then I have fucking sex, and then I go to bed with some guy I don't know. Let's get a tent tonight. Yeah, let's get a fucking tent. And she doesn't want to get off the streets. But you would call somebody like that mentally ill. Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I kind of admire the...

live by the moment, but no. I mean, it's not meant, you know, such a fine line. We're all a little mentally ill. That's the problem is it's a slippery slope and it's a sliding slope. Now, everybody's somewhat crazy. Is that crazy? You can, you could make the case that's just, it's a lifestyle. People live crazy lifestyles. Guess what?

You want to live that lifestyle? Go live it. But you can't live it on the fucking streets of Los Angeles. That's right. That's right. You can't. Or let's create one whole community, a homeless land. There'll be no houses. It'll just be streets and dumpsters. If you remember during the Great Depression, they had this. I don't. I'm way too young. Well, you've read books or seen it on TV. I'm just telling the kids.

Where they had, you know, camps where people went and they worked. Camps, yeah. You know. And I'm not talking about the kind of camps that they had. No, no. That they had with the Japanese people. Camp is not always a bad word. That's right. We don't have to always be worried about it. I went to camp. Yeah, me too. I went to Nazarene. They didn't kill me there. Did you go to camp? Yeah, at the Nazarene camp. Nazarene. That's a religion. Well, Jesus was a Nazarene.

I know. If he... I went to the Nazarene church. If he really existed. If he really existed, sure. Do you think he really existed? My logic says no. My emotions go, well, I hope so. Why, because you're a Christian? No, because I'm one of those wishy-washy agnostics. Oh, I'm a full-on atheist. I know that. I know, I watch your show. Right.

But the reason why I think it's fishy is because, okay, we have four people who wrote about Jesus. The four in the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and St. Paul, right? Every book in the New Testament comes from one of those five people. The one who wrote closest to Jesus' life was Paul. Jesus dies in 33. Paul is writing in the 50s.

you know, with the leather jackets and the grease. And the other three, the other four, are writing way later, and yet they know more about Jesus than Paul does, who wrote... Right. If Paul, it seems like he should have known something, and he knows nothing. He barely conceives of Jesus as someone who lived on Earth. That's a little weird. And also, you know, if you wanted to create a God...

as a fictional character, I mean, it's a great story. I mean, it worked. I think, you know-- - Well, it took a lot of people in and, you know, the idea helped a lot of people.

Undoubtedly they found peace. Oh, yes. Well, the reason Christianity caught on because there was many new religions going around the Mediterranean at the time. It was a soup of religions. But this was the one that said in an empire that was largely slaves, the real party is after you die. That was kind of new.

Like be meek on earth. There's no problem there. You mean like being employed in the United States for your entire fucking life and you get the last 10 years to live it up? Is that what you're talking about? What they're saying is you really live it up after you die. That's where the real kingdom is. So like if you're having a terrible life as a slave, you're like, oh, you know, if I can just get through this.

then luckily I'll die soon and then I'll be with Jesus and its rainbows and unicorns. - Well, okay, I'm gonna tell a comedian a joke. - Okay. - You wanna hear a joke? - Yeah. - So this guy dies, he goes to hell. He's forlorn, he's down there, he fucking hates it. He runs into the devil. The devil says, "What the fuck's the matter with you?" He goes, "I'm dead and I'm in hell." He goes, "I'm a fucking reasonable person. "Here's three doors."

Stop me if you've heard this joke. I have not. So he says, three doors. He opens, he said, I'll let you go into any of these three doors. He opens the first door. There's exactly what hell is described as in the Bible. And the guy goes, I don't want to go in there. The other one, they open the door and there's all these people just toiling away like it says in the Bible. They toil and you have to work. And the guy goes, I don't want to go in there. The third door he opens up.

There's a bunch of people drinking coffee, but you're standing in shit this high the guy goes I'll take the people drinking the coffee and the devil goes good choice young man All right, you people back on your heads coffee break is over That's great I did not see that coming that's great Well in my band

we've known this joke forever and whenever we're making a record or on tour, I'll look at the guys and they all know the joke and I'll go, okay, you guys back on your heads. Let's go. You love that camaraderie, don't you? Yeah. That's one thing comedians really are jealous of musicians.

Well, you know what we're jealous of with comedians? When I saw you and I've seen other comedians, you guys don't have any production. No, that's so great. You can show up an hour before the show. I know. And I got fucking, I got a... You don't have to go to a sound check. No. They ask and I'm like, play a...

Fuckin' my voice from a tape recorder. You know, a guy with a mic, can you manage that? Yeah, I mean, but for me, the guys have to sound check. We gotta set up the stage, we gotta put up backdrops, we gotta put lights up.

And, you know, it's expensive. Oh, it's expensive and it's a schlep. Yeah, it is. But I haven't gone to soundcheck for years. But you have that joy of being with your comrades and, like, speaking together through the music. It must be a wonderful way to live a life. Well, that's not really the way it is. Really? Come on. Well, it was when we were kids, but now. Really? Not so much now.

You don't like hear a guy play a certain way one night and be like, "Ah, that was such a cool lick." Hold on, hold on, hold on. No? Hold on. Our shows are always the same. I know, but you know-- Once we figure out what the arc of the show is, and it'll take three or four, five, six, ten shows before we figure it out, but then it never changes. Never changes. It's not like somebody's all of a sudden gonna play a fucking lick that we're gonna go, "Wow, that was cool."

If he plays that fucking lick, he's going to look at everybody in the band. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? What the fuck are you doing? But you still don't get bored with it, do you?

No, because the audience always pulls you through. There you go. The audience always... There's no business like show business. They smile when they are low. Yeah, that's exactly right. And the audience always, always, you know, pulls you through. No, I can't imagine stopping, you know. Stop touring. You know, stop going out and, as my friend Rita Rodner put it many years ago, telling jokes to strangers.

You know, it's just, it would be like cutting my leg off. Well, you know, like I said, we're both extremely fucking lucky. Extremely lucky. Fortunate. Yes. You know, and really have, I have no reason to complain. I do, but I have no reason to. I'm glad you admitted that at some point. I am actually the luckiest guy, you know.

That's a great attitude. Well, I am. I was born with spina bifida. Do you know what that is? It is when the spine, unfortunately, gets bifida. Yeah, that's kind of it.

I'm sorry. I had a fucking hole in my spine in the back of my neck, and you're making fun of me. I had a 24-hour spinal bifida. It was, ugh, what a day. But then I felt good. I had some soup. Anyway, I was born in 1951 when they operated on people with pinking shears and screwdriver shears. Oh, so you had an operation for this?

I'll show you the back of my neck when we're done. I got a scar from ear to ear. They cut my fucking head off. Is this about the pool party again? I know you're wanting that pool party. Anyway. So wait, your spine is fucked up coming out of the womb. Yeah, it's like this. Is this just the luck of the draw? Like every, you know, not every one of them. There were four of us laying in Riley's Children's Hospital in Indianapolis and some young doctor named

Anyway, it doesn't matter what his name is. He just said, we can't let these kids lay here. He operated on, did experimental operations on all of us. They all died except me. Wow. That's fucking luck. I'm the luckiest guy you know. You know what luck is, Bill?

- Luck is thinking you're lucky. - Okay, but exactly, because the other way you could look at it would be not being born with spinal bifida at all. See, this is, if I was before the court of God, I'd be like, "Your Honor, you know, but why at all?" See, you're just assuming that some people are gonna be born with this horrible thing. Why does anybody have to be? Why does there ever have to be any kind of misery?

You know, why can't we, you know? Because this is real life, Bill. I know, but I'm just saying to religious people who are like, and their answer would be because Adam and Eve. Yeah, their answer is because God moves in mysterious ways. Yeah. Well, no, yes, that too. That's a ridiculous dodge. But their main answer is Adam and Eve, you know, trespassed in the Garden of Eden. And isn't it time to let them off the hook? We have to pay for their sins.

sin like forever that would be my religious I Reposed I think that that If you try to apply logic No to any of it. It just doesn't work. Were you brought up with a religion? Yeah, I went to Nazarene Church every Sunday. Oh, yeah What no is that a sect? No, it's not a pool party. No, no But is it Catholic? No

Protestant? Episcopalian? It's one step above, what's the people that can't cut? Well, you're not allowed to cut your hair. I wasn't allowed to dance. Jews? No. No, but I mean, is it like Seventh-day Adventists? Really? Close to. So it is its own sect. Yeah. And what differentiates them from mainstream Christians?

You can't dance. You can't go to movies. You can't, you know, you know where dancing leads. So it's like Footloose. I've never seen Footloose. I don't know. You've never seen Footloose? No.

Okay, well, you know, it was sort of seminal at the time that you were like... Okay, so what's your favorite movie? Ferris Bueller's Stay Off, I bet. No. Yes, come on! It was fine at the time. I think I tried to watch it recently, and it was like, okay, but, you know, it's hard for stuff to hold up. Like, we remember movies fondly from, like, the 70s and the 80s. You don't. You might, because I didn't watch them.

You didn't watch movies? I watched old movies. Why didn't you watch current movies? Like what? I mean, you didn't watch anything in the 70s and 80s? You ever saw Three Days of the Condor? Nope. Clute? Didn't like it. Oh, you saw it? Yeah, I saw it. Because Jane Fonda was hot. That's why you watched that one. That's how I read it, yeah. Really? Yeah, probably. Well, that's honest. Still hot. I love Jane Fonda. I didn't watch...

I watched black and white movies. My favorite thing to do in life was when my parents were gone on Sunday and my siblings left the house. And in Indianapolis, Frances Farmer had a show where she came on

and talked and showed old movies. And if I had the house to myself, what I would do is lay on the couch and I'd watch those black and white movies with the commercials that Francis Farmer would then explain

what was happening to the idiots like me. And what just happened? So Frances Farmer was an actress who, is she the one who went to the mental? Her mother sent her to the mental institution. They made a movie about that. Yeah, Jessica Langston. Yes. Yeah, I saw that. So now she's out of her mental hospital and she's hosting a TV show in the 60s.

In 1960, when I was a kid. Right. When I was a kid in the 60s. But that was local to you. It was. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Because we sure didn't get that in the New York market. It's too good for New York. Boy, that's rough if you're an actress. Now you're doing movie intros in Indiana.

No offense. Well, but here's the thing. You know, she was lucky to get it. And you still live there, don't you? Yep. Good for you. Yep. I live on 86 acres, and I go back home tomorrow, and I'll be happy to be there. Right.

But Larry McMurtry, you've heard of Larry McMurtry, right? Of course. Lonesome Dove? Yeah. Anyway, Larry and I are friends. Really? Larry and I, yeah. Larry was doing an interview, and they asked, because he stayed with me for a couple weeks, and they said, how did you like being in Indiana? And he goes, Mellencamp still lives in Indiana. He goes, no, he doesn't. He lives on 86 acres behind those gates.

You don't see anybody. That's pretty much it. So what do you do with the other 85 acres? I assume you have like a house that takes like an acre. What's the other 85 for? Woods. Woods. You want your own woods? Yeah. What do you do in it?

Masturbate. Look at it. You are really heading toward this pool party, aren't you? No, I'm just saying when I was a kid. All right, you guys, get your fucking pool clothes on. When I was a kid, you couldn't jerk off at home. You'd go in the woods and rub one out. No, that's not the way it worked. Not where you were? I was a Nazarene. I didn't do that stuff.

So that really did have an effect on you. I mean, you deny your... Really? You believe that? No. No, fuck no. I'm the biggest liar you know. No, but I love that song where you say, I always lie to strangers. I always lie to strangers, and I always lie to people I may know. Yeah, well... We all do. I hope some of the things you said are lies. No. We all do.

Yeah. Sometimes I just say stuff just to see that look on your face. Yeah. You can always get an honest reaction from me. Like if I think it's bullshit, and that's valuable, and vice versa. Well, I have a... Because when we're successful, people tend to defer sometimes to your opinion just because they think, even without evidence, that we'll be mad sometimes.

If they don't agree. And it's like, no, I just always want honesty. No matter what it is. That's the best thing you could ever give me. And I can see through when it's... Bullshit. Yeah, but people just, you know, they just defer because they think, again, without evidence, that...

It's just human to think, oh, this person will like me more if I agree with them. See, but I don't know who works for you. Everybody that works for me has worked for me for decades. Oh, well, I got a bunch of ass kissers. I know. I mean, it's the way I want it, but no, I don't.

but i'd like i have you know i've got guys in the band been in a band for 50 years the guy that runs my studio has we went we were college roommates so everybody around me is like you know way sick of kissing my ass it's like john no john you can't never you know what to your great credit i never heard any bad things about you like i never heard anything nobody ever like said you did something shitty

You know, nothing dishonorable, nothing to make the fans go, "Oh, God, I used to like him." You know, none of that stuff. Not everybody can like everybody's music, but as a man, as a person, I never heard... Nobody has anything shitty to say about you. Even people, whatever they think about you, he's not shady.

I'm not shady. No, not at all. He's authentic. I'm not shady. Nope. But I may be a lot of things, but I'm not shady. Exactly. And I would say the same about myself. I'm not shady. Yeah. You may not like me, and I don't really care. That's exactly what I was going to say. Although I would love it if everybody loved me. I would love that. I wouldn't care.

I would think that would be great if everyone just always agreed with everything I had to say and acknowledged. So what's the James Dean line? I'm too sensitive for this world, so you should love me and feel sorry for me. He said that? Mm-hmm. Did you ever see Giant? Did I ever see Giant? Like maybe a hundred times. Oh, because I never saw it. Okay, this interview is over. You need to go in the fucking house right now. No, I started it.

I started it. You started it? How could you stop? I mean, I don't watch movies like that. It's like long, right? It's like three hours. Well, what is your take? It wasn't like so compelling that I was like, I cannot take my eyes off Giant. It was, yes, I want to see it because I know it's a classic. It was made in the year I was born, 1956.

Got onto it because I was watching this documentary about Rock Hudson, which is a great documentary I watched it the other night and I know that's why you're referring to pool parties. I

Right. He was the king of, oh, man, you couldn't get a finger in your ass at Rock Hudson's pool party. That's right. You didn't have it. And you know what? I came out after watching. You came out? No, I came out after watching Rock Hudson. After watching. I missed the news one day. Congratulations. I think you're a better person because you're gay. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Well, Rock didn't give a fuck. You're brave.

I mean, that's what I took away. Rock didn't give a fuck? He gave such a fuck he never came out. But it was a different era. Of course he didn't come out. It was like 1940. No, it was 1980.

dynasty at the end. But my point is that everybody in town, in this town that you live in, knew he was good. Yes, within the industry, of course. That's right. Well, we all sucked his dick. Well, not all of us. Alright. But

Anyway, that was his big role in Giant. So I was like, oh, I gotta watch Giant. Why have you seen it a hundred times? What is so great about it? Because George Stevens was a fucking fantastic director. Dean was fantastic. But what about the movie? Brock Hudson was fucking great. The story is great. What is the story? And how does the story, because I know you. What's the arc of the story? Nobody writes about America

And well, more than you. How does this story reflect on America in a way that has your admiration so high? Because the story starts out with Rock Hudson being sort of a big, we don't talk to these people. I saw that. He's a big baller. He's a mocker. He's got money and a big ranch. The size of Connecticut. In Texas. And he has a lot of Spanish people working for him. And

Elizabeth Taylor goes and starts talking to him and it pisses him off. Anyway, cut to three hours of movie. At the end of the movie, he's standing up for the Spanish and he gets in a fucking fist fight because he sees somebody not, you know, we have the right not to serve people. So it was ahead of its time.

for standing up for the thing. And I just gave you the cliff notes first. Yeah, good. No, I can't wait to see the rest of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not all at once. I mean, it's just, I can't. Why? I just don't have that kind of attention span anymore. Anymore? I got a larger attention span when I'm older. Well, we'll fucking bully for you. How about trying? Trying? Yeah. I know.

Okay, watching a movie is not something I want to ever have to try to do. That's the relaxation part of my day. Okay. I don't need to challenge myself. Hold on for a second. Watching Giant is not about you relaxing. It's about watching...

America grow. It's about watching a movie that I hope is good. It's really good. Let's not suck its dick more than necessary. It's probably a good movie. It's probably super dated in a million ways, but I get it. It's also ahead of its time, I think. I'll give it its due. And I want to see it, but it's an artifact. I'll probably never watch it again because I probably won't find it that compelling. I bet I've watched it a hundred times. I get it.

You know, and I've watched Streetcar a hundred times. Well, you win. Because I think it's going to be a hundred to one. Have you ever seen Streetcar? Streetcar named Azari? Yes, I have. And? Brando, awesome. Norlins.

On the money. Yeah. I mean, do I remember it really well? Stella! Oh, no. What? Is that streetcar? Yeah, that's streetcar, but there's so much. I understand. That's a cliche. Yes, I know. We got the Napoleonic Code. This is my castle. That's what it says.

Not the same movie? No. You were just doing Brando in The Godfather. No, I was doing Brando. Those are the lines from the movie. It is. We got the Napoleonic Code. And if a man, what's good for the woman is good for the man with the Napoleonic Code. Have you ever heard of the Napoleonic Code, Steli? Yes, I know the lines. Wow.

I know the lines. I've seen the movie a million times. Wow. So when you like a movie, you watch it over and over. It's like finding a good song for me. Really? That's interesting. I can't do it that much. And there are movies that I love so much. Like Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Not that one at all. Like In the Line of Fire is a good example. I've never seen it. It's great. You should. Who's in it? Jack Nicholson. Clint Eastwood.

In the line of fire. In the line of fire. Wolfgang Peterson. It's great. Why don't you, well, you can't even. It's in color. It's in color. It's fantastic. I mean, there's movies like that where my point was, like, I know I've seen it four times and it comes on and I'm like, I am not going to watch it again. And then. You watch it. I can. Okay, like what?

Well, that's one. Oh, there's quite a few like that. Let me name some people in movies and I'll try to think of some. War of the Worlds, Spielberg's movie about... Yeah, I know that movie. The look on your face is just priceless. I'm guessing you find these, my choices, too bourgeois, too middle class for your rebel nature, so like too lowbrow, too man of the people.

You know, when you appeal to that many people, I think we should end this conversation by saying this. Keep it small and keep it going. Keep it small and keep it going. You know who told me that? Who? Pete Seeger. Best advice I ever got. Keep it small. What's it? Your career. Keep it small and keep it going. Oh, right.

We were sitting in Madison Square Garden. You were as big as it ever was. We were sitting in Madison Square Garden. They were having some kind of celebration for Pete. I walked up to him. I was talking to him. I said, what do you think about all this? Fucking Madison Square Garden sold out 360. Everybody in the fucking world's playing there. Bruce is playing. I'm playing. I can't remember all the other people that are playing. Everybody's playing. And I go, hey, what do you think about all this?

He goes, it's all right. Occasionally, I guess. I go, what do you mean? He goes, you want some advice? Keep it small and keep it going. He said, when the fucking Iraq war broke out, do you think I went down to New York City and stood around with all those people? He said, no, I walked out on the interstate with a sign by myself and said, stop the fucking war. He said, that's courage. All right, man. Thank you. That's good advice at the end. Yeah.

All right. I'm always there for free. Yeah, you're a lot of fun. All right. So look, see, I told you I was taller than you. Yeah, because you're standing on a... All right, get down here. Let's see the tallest. That's probably right at eye level. Yeah. I'm not putting on a swimsuit and getting into the bathroom. All right.