Jay Leno | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Shows have been great. And I like the glasses. The glasses work good. I remember you were a little self-conscious when I was on MTV. I still am. You know, but you know, I think it gives you real gravitas.

It works. No, it looks good. I would tell you if it didn't. I said that to my wife. She said, I like it too. It does because it looks like... No, I've heard that many times that people like the glasses. Oh, this is... That's just water. I just can't get past the fact that the glasses represent to me a milestone of aging.

You know, it's like there are milestones of aging. You were telling me about the pickle jar last time I saw you. Yeah, yeah. Okay. It's that kind of thing, you know. Yeah. You can't apparently open pickle jars anymore. Well, it takes a little more strength. But you get to do the Walter Cronkite, you know what I'm saying? I am. Here, give me, I'll show you. Give me your glasses. Okay. Do the... What the... Remember how he would do the... Yes, but I...

President Kennedy died today at 1.45. I was going to do it. I can do it exactly. Oh, go ahead. You're fucking it up. And there it is, the flash from Dallas. Yeah, that's great. President Kennedy died at 1.05 p.m. 1.45, I think. Whatever it was. But, I mean, there was a guy who you could see on the air.

the with the genuineness of being choked up right but unlike what they would be probably doing today didn't let himself you know he had the self-restraint right people of that era i'm the newsman i'm here to do a job yes it's devastating news i may swallow a couple of times but then i go on and i do it i don't blubber yeah right jay exactly where's your camera right here

Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're all over. This is like a reality show. Have we started already? I'm lost. Yeah. Oh. Right? Yeah. Oh, I have. Okay. Well, let's go. What are you doing? We're doing it. This is the show. What do you expect me to do? I don't know. I get drinking high with somebody I like. That's it. Okay. There you go. I don't have a series of questions or anything. All right.

I mean, Jay, tell me something about your background. I understand you claim to be a comedian. Did I tell you that claim story? Tell that story. I love that story. No, I was in Dayton, Ohio. I had...

Just thought I was guest hosting the Tonight Show. I was, you know, doing the comedy club. So... Guest hosting already? No, in 86. I thought this was way before that. The claim, he claims to be a comedian? No, no, not claims to be a comedian. What it was, was it was about... I had been hosting the Tonight Show for a number of weeks. So I'm doing some clubs in Ohio. So they go, you're on Dayton. You're on at the New News, a female anchor. What's her name? Okay. Sorry, I'm Jay Leno. He's a...

She said, I'm sorry, I'm not familiar. I said, oh, my name's Chandler. I'm a comedian. I'm playing, you know, chuckles or giggles, whatever it is. And I guest hosted Tonight Show.

I talked with Jay Leno, Leno who claims to have hosted the Tonight Show. I go, you know, I can prove it. I said, you have film right here in this. This is an NBC affiliate. I'm sure there's tape. Now, either you told me a different story. No, I told you that story. It's so interesting because I will admit to the fact that the brain over time sometimes does. You know the one you might confuse it with is Buffalo.

Buffalo, my mom... Do you remember John Eric Hexum? Yes. Remember the kid who sadly killed himself? He had a... Well, tell people why. He thought the gun was... Right. No. It was a blank. It was a blank that would shoot a paper wad. But since he had it right against his forehead, instead of just going... The pressure went into his brain and killed him. Well...

The lesson, kids, is don't fire even a blank gun into your head. Right, right, exactly. And anyway, the guests on the show were him. He was the star because of, he had some show where he played a spy. What show? Guests on what show? A.M. Buffalo. A.M. Buffalo. A.M. Buffalo. It was him. Oh, God. Me and seven authentic African pygmy dancers.

All right, so I'm sitting in the green room right here, and John Eric Hetson is being interviewed, and the seven pygmies are sitting right here next to me. And they have spears, and they have their full, the seven of them sitting there. Jay, you said authentic. I would assume they have spears. So they're all sitting there, and we're all watching the show.

And, you know, they're coming and the talent coordinator comes and goes, Mr. Leno, Mr. Leno. I go, I'm Leno. Oh, you're Leno? Okay, you're up next. And I went, and I just thought, oh, okay. Oh, that's a scream. Yeah, it's just so stupid. Oh, my God. Mr. Leno. Over here. Over here. But I swear to God.

I thought you told a story about being a very young comedian who'd done The Tonight Show maybe once or twice. No, no. And you were working some club or somewhere. Maybe it was not a club. It's one of those private events where it's a business guy introducing you. You've done many of those. I certainly did it back in the day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we- No, this was, that was the- Okay, so tell me if this is in any way familiar. Go ahead.

And again, these are like corporate events. Larry Miller has a famous story about he goes up after the guy does a long, you know, someone in the company died.

And so it was like, oh, we all remember Frank. He was just such a great guy. We all loved him very much. And he died tragically of cancer after a long illness two weeks ago. And now a funny young man. So they don't know how to do show business. No, no. What you're thinking of is freshen. I'll tell you what it was. I was a comic in New York.

So this guy comes to see me and goes, I'm bringing some buyers in for a product. I've invented a new product. We want you to pretend to be the spokesman. I said, what's the product? It's called Freshen.

I said, what is it? He said, it's a moist toilet paper used after going to the bathroom. And it said on the side, do away with embarrassing rectal odor. I said, okay. So I go, what do you want me to do? Okay, you go on. I'll introduce you as my vice president of sales. And you do some jokes. Really? So anyway, so this guy invites all these Liggett Rexall dealers in.

And they're all sitting there like this. There's about 25 of them, you know. The guy goes, I've got this product. We think it's going to be a big hit. It's got adhesive. They put it on the wall next to, it sticks to the wall right above or below the toilet paper. And it's, after you use the toilet paper, you use this to avoid embarrassing rectal odor. And they're all sitting like this. They're all doing this.

You look at their watches, you know. Like they've heard this pitch before. Well, they just, they're obviously not interested in the process. So this guy, but let me introduce, he can see, he's starting to get flop sweats. Let me introduce my vice president of sales, Jay Leno. So I got up there and I started doing my act and they're all going. And so I do about 10 or 15 minutes to nothing, you know. And he goes,

And then he goes back. He goes, that, of course, was not my vice president of sales. But Jane Leno, a professional comedian. I've seen them all go, professional comedian. He was just like the most horrible. So then they all leave, right? And the guy says, listen, I want you to buy this product. So nobody buys the product, right?

He says, look, look, I'll be loving with you. I got a warehouse in Teaneck down here. I got like 500,000 rolls of this stuff. OK, take some to your stores. Just try it. No, not instant play. Just take it with you. Just take it with you. So I'm waiting now to get paid, right? So now people are leaving. Tears are streaming down the guy's face. Just try it. I'm telling you, try it. So he goes, what do you want?

I said, can I get paid? Yeah, I can pay. So I took like 10 rolls of fresh and that was my pay. That was a horrible one. Maybe that's the one. Okay. It's still, no. Okay. I'm telling you what the story is. Yeah, what was it? It's very basic that you were doing one of these corporate gigs where they often, I've had been introduced where they don't even understand to say your name at the end of the introduction. So it's like, Bill Maher is a funny guy who's done three Tonight Shows,

Here he is. They'll just end the set. It's just like people have no cue to clap. Yeah. They don't go, here's Bill Maher. So this one, you're doing this, some corporate gig. And the guy is like, he probably had it on a card, was reading your credits. And he's like, and we have a comedian on, Jay Leno. No, I'm fucking this story up.

What the guy embarrassed you by doing, he said, Jay Leno, he claims to be a comedian. No, claims to have done The Tonight Show. That's what it was. He claims to have... That never happened? No, the one that happened was Leno who claims to have hosted. That's where it came from. I think you get a couple of stories. Maybe. It's 40 years ago. It's club cigarettes. It's 40 years ago. The fact that you...

We're doing AM Buffalo. I think says so much about you, Jay, and your work ethic, because you would never catch me doing AM anything, let alone Buffalo, I bet, in February. But you've got to remember, back in the day, those were the local shows that brought a local audience. I know. Remember the PM magazine shows? They always used to have those at 7.30? Those are pretty big, too. And, you know, the funny thing about it is,

People come up to you like 10 years later and go, are you from Montana? No. Well, I saw you on, you know, Hello Butte or whatever the name of the show. I go, no. Oh, you're not from there. No, no. I was just on the show doing it. Yeah, I did every local. Oh, yeah, hilarious. But I know when you hosted The Tonight Show that you would be like, you'd get into the office at like 8 a.m., right? Oh, easy. Yeah, yeah. 8 a.m. Yeah, 7.30 a.m.

a comedian in an office at 8 a.m. Yeah, but you know... And you'd be calling affiliates. Yeah. I mean, that... You're following Johnny Carson, okay? The network's getting letters like, you know, they should just make that...

60 minutes of dead air in honor of Johnny. You know, it's not fair to put somebody else. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that you're dealing with. Really? Oh, yeah. Just crazy stuff. Yeah, yeah. What do you mean? Because they were so up Johnny's ass that they couldn't accept the next? Yeah, of course, of course. Really? Yeah.

I remember I wrote a thing for Time magazine when Johnny died. They asked me to do a thing. And I said at the end of it, I said, you know, he was amazing for his time, but times change. And Leno is right for this time. And I don't know if they printed it, but I don't know if they liked it. Well, you know what's fascinating is somebody at NBC gave me Johnny's reviews when he took over from Parr.

And I was stunned at how vicious they were because Parr was the erudite guy he would have on, you know. Right. You know, and Johnny was sort of Aunt Blabby and all that kind of stuff.

And obviously had a wider appeal than Parr, but they thought it was, oh, the dumbing down of television and all this kind of comedy and all that kind of stuff. But television is always perpetually getting dumbed down because the population gets dumber. Right. There was a reason why erudite Jack Parr could survive in 1959. Noel Coward had a talk show in the 50s.

Is that right? Yeah. In America? Like 90 minutes. Let's discuss that. Hamlet, of course, certainly the third act. Well, Johnny used to do an hour and a half. Yeah. And the last half hour was like authors. Like he would have a serious intellectual discussion with astronomers and authors and people like that. Okay. But that's what my point was in that article. Like times change. Jay had his finger on the pulse of where America was in history.

his era. Johnny, if he had been doing that same show he was doing, would not have survived in 2008 or something. Well, you never know. Well,

Well, if he was doing the same kind of thing, it was broad. But your show was more of like a party. And that's what people wanted. It wasn't so, the accent wasn't that much on just people talking. And then it even moved after you to just throwing water in people's faces. Wow. You know.

It's just true. I mean, people, the artist has to follow where the audience is. The toughest thing about late night now is that the commercials, you know, you get used to streaming and watching Netflix. And I said, let me see what the guys are doing. And I go, another commercial? I mean, there's a nine minute break at 12 o'clock to 12.09. After 11 o'clock at night, you can add more commercials.

So they just come back for like a minute? They come back for a minute and you go, geez, I mean, you can't watch. And 30-second spots are so well produced now and they have so much content, they seem like a minute spot. And you go, how many commercials? 30-second spot of ads? Yeah, ads, whatever it is. Well, I remember when I was following Nightline, I had a six-minute gap. Right. Like three minutes of our commercials at the end, we were daring to...

the audience to go away, especially at midnight. I know. I know. You're daring them. I know. I know. I'll be like, let's go to bed quick. Now they do a hot switch, don't they? Haven't they done that forever? What do you mean a hot switch? A hot switch where you go from one show to the other. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then the commercial comes. Yeah. Yeah. So that you catch the people and get them hooked or whatever. I mean, I don't know how in an age of streaming and

you know, VCRs, DVRs, that anybody could, why would you watch something in real time when you could skip the commercials? Right. And yet they must still do it. People must still be in bed watching between their toes because those shows are still on. Yeah. I mean, Jimmy and Jimmy are talented guys. They're all talented. You know how many people I have, guys will send me, you know, usually older guys, they have some car they want to sell me or something.

I said, email me some pictures. I'm not going to go through that trouble. I'll go down, I'll put a stamp. I'll go down to the post office, buy a stamp, stand in line, put it in a slot. I said, that's really not easier than just going, bink, you know. But no, they don't get it. Well, my friend Jim Vallely has the greatest line about, you know, he's a sitcom writer. I know Jim. You know Jimmy, okay. So he said, like he was on Golden Girls, he said, TV guy used to come out.

And you'd look at the fall preview issue, what their lineup of different shows for different networks, and you'd see the two or three shows you were up against. Now you're up against everything that was ever made. Right. It's true. And that's the truth. You were up against everything that was ever made. Think about this. TV Guide was the biggest selling magazine in the world. Yeah.

Really? 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s. Yeah. Biggest selling magazine in the world. Now it's barely a pamphlet, you know. I didn't know that it still exists. It still exists. It's like a magazine. You know, it's like this thick. I mean, that was awesome. I have every fall preview issue from like the late 60s to the mid 80s.

I mean, we did a... It was very important to me. A TV guide on world events as written by TV guide and jeers to Hitler, you know, it was that kind of stuff. You did that on the Tonight Show? Yeah, yeah, and jeers to Hitler for invading Poland. So, wait, did you say you shot seven shows today? Yeah, yeah. We shoot seven a day for 10 weeks, 12 weeks. For 10 weeks. 10 or 12 weeks, yeah. Right.

It seems like every time I turn my TV on, that show is on. I don't know. It's different times. I don't know. It's a different time? I mean, different markets and different times. Oh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's syndicated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. It's old school. Boom. Right.

But you must love it. I mean, you look like you're having a ball doing it. I like it. It's easy enough to do. You know what? You don't do the time. Actually, I've got to see the movie. I've got to read the book. Right. I've got to listen to the album. Right. Without it, I'd just show up. What's this guy do? He's like, boom. And you talk. It's like doing jaywalking on the street. Jaywalking. Exactly. Yeah, same thing. You know, I brought that up recently. I did an editorial on our show about how

dumb people were. Oh yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I watched that. There's a TikTok guy who just ripped you off. That made me laugh. Did that whole thing. Well, I mean, that's the most, everybody accuses everybody of ripping stuff off. It's the most common thing

Kimmel does it on his show. It's not a ripoff of me. I didn't rip off Steve Allen. Steve Allen didn't rip off the guy on the radio, Arthur Godfrey. I don't know who it was. No, but you were the first one to... No, sorry. Your jaywalking thing was specifically aimed at showing how stupid people were.

These people, the other guys, they did talk to people on the street and people could sometimes get caught in the act of being themselves. Right, right. But yours was specifically, this person doesn't know who Lincoln is. Right, yeah. It was always amazing to me. And that's what was funny about it.

and sad at the same time. Oh, yeah. But I don't think any, no, I think you started that jaywalking or else you wouldn't have done it. That was an original choice. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. That was my favorite thing to do. And that's sort of what this show is. It's sort of the same thing. Yeah. And, you know, Jay, I love it that you're not like, you have no, like, ego about, like, you climbed the mountain, you got to the top for a very long time,

I've said many times, you got fired twice for the crime of being- Nobody cares that you climbed the mountain. You talk about climbing the mountain. I'll tell you a climbing mountain story. I had this guy on the- I had this guy in the tonight show. You never let me ask one question. Let me finish this. This guy is blind, and he climbed Mount Everest.

The most amazing, he's an athlete, he's blind. Who hasn't? Two months, he's climbing Mount Everest. He's holding on, he doesn't know if it's daytime or night. It rains. Oh, boo-hoo. So he's on my show, and I said during the break, do you do a lot of motivational speaking?

He's all pissed off. I go, why? He goes, every motivational speaker, I talk about climbing Mount Everest and how hot it was and it rinned in slowness. You don't know if it's day or night. You don't know where you are on the mountain. You don't know how far. I've got to feel my way to the top. It took me two months. And he says, inevitably afterwards when he does the meet and greet, somebody goes,

You know, I was going to climb Everest last year, but my kid's got soccer and the wife wants to go to her mother-in-law. And he's like blind. He's like, I just want to stab these people. He's still furious. Hilarious. Hilarious.

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He got fired twice for the crime of being number one. And, you know, you just have no bitterness about it. You ever tell you what they said to me? I said, I'm number one. You know what they said? We want what's above number one. No. Yes. Yes. That's my favorite quote. No. And I went, what's above number one? I said, we're number one. We're winning in every demographic group. I know, but we want what's above that.

That is priceless show business stupidity. Yeah, that's wonderful. How can you not have fun with it? Well, I believe to someone who was sitting in that chair at some podcast we did here, I think I was talking about this because the subject of agenting came up. And I was saying, to me, the argument, the strongest argument for why you need someone speaking for you is because you

NBC had Ari Emanuel, a dear friend of mine, and a genius agent, now one of the biggest moguls in the world. NBC had him in their ear convincing them. I mean, that is a genius salesman. You can convince a network to look for, what was the phrase? We want what's above number one. Right. That's...

And you did not have an agent. No, I didn't have an agent or a manager. Right. And do you have regrets about that? No, I don't have any at all. Because everything I do, I spoke for myself. There's one thing about... Maybe you needed that little snake in their ear to say... You know something you don't. You don't need the snake in the ear. But the snake worked. It got them to, again... And how did it work in the end? Who won in the end?

Well, they canned your ass, so you didn't. You should still be there. I wouldn't still be there now. Why? Because at some point I shouldn't have to know all of Jay-Z's music. I mean, it gets to the point where when you're 40 and you're talking to a 26-year-old supermodel, it's sexy. When you're in your 60s, you're the creepy old guy.

You know what? That's such ridiculous thinking. Just don't be creepy when you talk to them. You can talk to any person of any age. That's a ridiculous restriction to put on. Well, that is true. It is true. But I just say that because- You can't talk to a 26-year-old without leering. Well, not leering. And you were never a leerer anyway. You're famously happily married. Right. And a devoted-

faithful husband. You do not have to worry. If they come out in a short skirt, that's because they're selling a movie and that would get people... Well, my thing is I wouldn't change anything because it all worked out fine. Yes, but... But at least I rose and fell by my own hand.

as opposed to other people moving things around. You know, I remember one time I was on stage. Well, you didn't fall. You never fell. They felled you, again, for the crime of being number one. And I think if you could have had someone whispering in their ear, this is a very stupid thing to do. It's called a cash cow.

Just milk that for as long as it takes. But you know, you find in show business, you die from a thousand paper cuts. What does that mean? What that means is when they decide they want you out, suddenly things start appearing in the trades that you're difficult. Really? Yes. Does that happen? No, not to me, but I would see it happen to other people.

You know, things would just get... Like who? Like what? Like, give me an example. Like, what did they say? Well, it did happen to me in the sense that once I did a... Oh, I did this movie. Tina DeLand did this movie a long time ago. And I had my contract that I had these certain dates that I couldn't do because I was committed to...

Were you the detective in that movie? Yeah, yeah, the stupid movie, yeah. What is it called? I don't even remember. Oh, you do. Come on. But anyway. I've seen it. And then they said, no, we've got to shoot in the United States. No, I already made this commitment. And then suddenly I started seeing things in the paper. I'm difficult. My hairdresser was arguing. I don't have a hairdresser. And I would just see all these things. And I'd go, okay, this is how it works. They just plant these little stories and little things happen. When you control your own fate...

It's fine. And plus, the nice thing was, you know, I'll tell you a story. When I was doing The Tonight Show, I got a call from, well, how can I say this? There was a group of people, a whole bunch of comedians were guest hosting The Tonight Show. And they're all handled by the same guy. And this guy called me and said, we want to handle you too and put you in the roster because we're asking $25,000 a night to guest host.

And I said, oh, that's okay. He said, what are you getting to guest host? I said, I'm getting $512 a night to guest host. Scale. I said, okay. He said, right there. He said, sign with us. And then when he comes around, I said, you know, I'm going to keep my $512 a night. Okay. And then I told Johnny's people, I'll do it for $512. And then they look at the ratings and they go, you know, Lionel's getting just as good of ratings as...

Johnny owns the company. You can save about, you know, 40, $50,000 a month by having him. And then I became the permanent guest host.

And I never discussed money. I said, the money will come later on. And it worked out fine because I got it under the, because I said, okay. And then, oh, and then they came to me with offers for money. And I said, oh, okay, that's fine. And I never had to argue. Well, see, to me, Jay, that is the quintessential story summing you up. Because when people ask me about you, I always say, and of course you do have your detractors. I mean, I don't quite understand them because I always say like,

Leno's such an interesting guy because as a human being, you could never do better than asking, what would Jay do? You know, he's a very moral guy. But he's also fucking Italian. Right. And boy, when he wants to fucking hide in the closet and outsmart you, he will do that. Well, I did that because... He will always fucking find the way to get to the top of that mountain. I had a hunch that...

that Jack Welsh was on my side. He was the head of NBCE, of GE? He owned GE. Which owned NBCE. Yeah, so when they were having that meeting and I was listening in, I heard him say, why don't we go with Leno? He seems funny. He seems to work good. He seems to be a hard worker. I like him. I went, thank you. Now where did you hear that? When I was in the closet. I love that. Jack was in the meeting. But in the closet.

That's like only you and R. Kelly could get away with an in the closet. That's right. Me and R. Kelly. Thank you very much. Well, he does have a hole in the closet. No, it's not a hole in the closet. I was just listening. No, I know. I wanted to know what was going on. And the funny thing was about it. Here's a funny thing. I did it twice. Twice? I never knew that. And the second time, I heard Warren Littlefield say, you know, somehow, I think, I don't know what goes on in this room.

He says, from now on, we didn't even speak to, we didn't even tell our second lieutenant. He says, we didn't even tell our second lieutenant what goes on in this room. So later that day, I'm walking home. I see, I walk by Warren. I go, second lieutenant Jay Leno, how are you? And he goes, what the fuck does that mean? What's that mean? I go, no, I'm just making a joke.

What did you say, second lieutenant? I just said second lieutenant. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah. It was very funny. It was very funny. And then another time. Wait, so what a mind fuck on him. I'll tell you the second time. The second time, he was in Florida in a meeting. So I kept trying to reach him. So I said, give me his room. So they ring his room. It doesn't answer. And I go, oh, he was just downstairs. I bet he was in the bathroom when the phone rang. So I called back again.

He goes, hey, it's Jay. I said, where are you? California. I said, you were just in the bathroom. He goes, how'd you know that? How'd you know that? And he had the room swept. And that made me laugh afterwards. You know what that...

That is so fucking... It's very funny. You know what that reminds me of? What? Did you ever see the Jason Bourne movies? Yes, I love the Jason Bourne movies. Okay. So at the end of, I think it's the second one, or what, he's talking to Pam Landy, the head of the CIA, but the CIA, played by Joan Allen. Amazing. Right. I love this one. That's supposed to be Gina...

Davis? No, Gina, the head of the CIA. She wasn't the head of the CIA. Pam Landy, she winds up being the good guy in the CIA. Yeah, but in the real life, Gina is Haskell. Haskell? Haskell, yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, right, she was head of the CIA. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so, you know...

At the end of the first or the second one, he's talking to her. And she's like, oh, I got him on the phone finally. It's like, oh, Boren, why don't you come in? He's like, no, I don't think I'm going to do that right now. And Pam, she gets some rest. You look tired. Oh, I remember the scene. Because he was across. Right. And then she's like, what the fuck? Jason Boren, you are a badass. Well, I'll tell you a story. That great Moby. Gina Haskell told me one time that. How do you know her?

I know her a little. We had dinner. The CIA person? Yeah, yeah, Gina Haskell. Why you? I don't know why me. Why me? I don't know. I've done a lot of people. I've done dinner with Gorbachev, dinner with Netanyahu, a lot of people. You know, when you're on The Tonight Show, they call you. Gorbachev called me when he was in. He said he wanted to have dinner.

All right. So I said to Mavis, Gorbachev and Recha want to have dinner, you know. And he doesn't speak English. No. No. So we have it. Of course, I make the big mistake. So I introduce him. And to me, she said, oh, you obviously married an older man. And you see, bra, bra, bra, bra, bra. And she gets this look. My husband is not elderly. No, no, no. I'm saying, I said, what?

And then again, I said, no, no, I mean, obviously you were a child bride. You look so, I was not a child when he married her. Okay, I'm just digging a hole here. I said, I'm just trying to be funny. So I'm thinking, why is Gorbachev inviting me to dinner? And

Oh, he wanted to borrow $50,000. He wanted to make a donation to the Gorbachev. I said, you know, I don't even give money to Democrats. You know, he asked me to dinner once too, Jay. And I said, look, I can't. No, but he was hitting on me. You can't look at that thing on your head. And then it was done. He was trying to get me to give him $50,000. All right. So you're at dinner with the CIA. Well, let me tell you a funny story.

So I says, is there any like Jason Bourne kind of stuff that actually goes on? And she said, one time they had an agent and the agent was driving with a double agent who was a Russian. And they sensed that they were being followed. So they're trying to lose this guy. So the other guy, someone's driving and the guy is sitting here. And they had an inflatable doll sitting

So they said when they come to the corner, open the door, jump out, and the guy will inflate the doll so it would look like he was still in the car. So they race around the car. This guy jumps out. The head pops out. So the car behind him, it looked like there was still two people in the car until they got where they're going. I thought that was great. It just made me laugh. It just made me laugh. But that's as top secret as it got.

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You know, we have a whole part of the military sub-tribe called DARPA. Right. You're familiar with DARPA? Go ahead. They're like, they're the dudes. Their budget is secret. Right. But it's billions and billions. There is no budget. There is no budget. Right. It's like the Virgin Mary. It's perfect, always, that defends budget. DARPA, like, develops, like, the shit we don't even know about. Like, the next wave of, I mean...

The other side plainly has stuff that has caused our diplomats to have headaches. Right, like in Havana, yeah, yeah. Yes, in Havana, some other capitals where they... It must be some sort of sound wave. A microwave, yeah. A microwave that they're... I mean, that's the kind of shit DARPA works on. Right, right. And, you know, obviously...

I'd rather have us to have it than them. Right, exactly. Whoever them is. In the same way. Yeah. You asked why I knew. I had done a... When you work for the CIA and you get killed, you get nothing. Star on the wall. Nobody knows who you are. Anonymous star. So we did a benefit for the families of those people. You did? Yeah. Jay. Jay, you're so you.

Of course you did a benefit for them. Of course you did. It's not bad. It's not bad. No, I'm saying it's just you. It's like you're always you. You're Super Leno. You're just Iron Jay. Yeah, yeah. But I must say, back to the story about the people who were character assassinating you at NBC, if they really were good at it, would they concoct a story about you having a hairdresser? No.

Well, no, that was a Dino De Laurentiis story. But yeah, me with the hairdresser, yeah, that's really believable. I'm just saying there are certain things that are out of the realm of believability. But the idea when you run your own show...

You hear the information firsthand. Because we have an agent, we hate Lenny, he sucks. They said they weren't happy with this one thing you said. No, no, no. You know what I'm saying? You don't get the... The perfect example, I'm on stage one day and I see...

A woman like this. A woman like what? You know, wanted me to sign something. Okay. You know, I'm talking and I said, I said, I said, I'm working. I said, what? Meet me right there by that door when the show's over and I'll sign it for you. You know, I just, I got some laughs. Okay. Right. So I got back, the show ends and I see her walk to the thing.

As I get over there, security goes, Mr. Leno left instructions. He's not signing anything. And I go, what are you saying? You know, I see she's like, oh, like I lied to her. I go, no way. That's what having an agent is like. You have people saying things for you. And I see it all the time. I would guess they'd come to the Tonight Show and they would have some road manager that was just treating people horribly. And the star was actually very nice. Whether they know or not, I don't know. So to me, if I go by myself, if

If they have a bad opinion of me, at least it was formed by meeting me. Right. And they wouldn't if they met you because, again, you're Iron Jay. But no, it's true.

And I have seen that many times myself and have had to, like, say to people. Yeah. Because people who, like, have the word security in giant letters written on their back. Right. They just have a, it's just going to give you an attitude. Like, they've done actual psychological experiments like this. If you put people in certain costumes or things, they act a certain way. The famous one with prisoners and guards. Right. If you are the person.

prisoner and you're wearing the prison uniform and then the guards immediately start acting sadistically and it's like okay you're not really a guard but they just do it and security so they're going to act like big assholes and we're going to tell you what to do I did that once to Prince Prince was a guest on the Tonight Show so we put on a bald wig and a mustache and I waited in the guard gate and Prince comes up you know

And he goes, Prince, tonight's show. I said, Prince what? Prince. You're the Prince of what? Prince of what? He goes, he's like, I'm a musician. I'm on the show. I'll tell him, hang on.

Prince what? And now he's getting pissed. And then I was starting to laugh so hard. And then he saw me. He was really a funny guy. He was a nice guy. Really? Prince was a funny guy? Yes, he had a great sense of humor. Yeah, I've heard that too. And the nicest guy...

He stayed after the show. He told the audience to stay. He played an hour. You know what? I'm remembering this now. Yeah. When Politically Incorrect was newly on and looking for some sort of confirmation that it existed, Prince talked about it on your show. Yeah. Do you remember that? No, I don't remember talking about it. He talked about watching Politically Incorrect. Oh, that's great. And sometime later, someone who worked for him at one point and knew him pretty well said,

said that on the road, this is after he became very devout as a, what was he? Was he a Jehovah's Witness? Jehovah's Witness, maybe something like Seventh-day Adventist, one of those. And that he would invite four ladies back to the room.

And they thought there was going to be some great Prince Orgy, and he played politically incorrect with them. He talked to them about Jesus, and he had some bizarre... No, he was a very nice guy. Yeah. But he talked... He said... I'm surprised that when the limo pulled up, he himself said, why didn't the driver? Because I looked at him. I said, you are... Because he was a man of few words.

Well, no. When you talked to him, he was okay. Really? He was okay. No attitude. Very nice to everybody. No, no. I'm not saying attitude. I just... No, but you know what I mean. What I always heard about him was that he was a man of few words. He spoke through his music and didn't... But I guess he felt comfortable with someone. Yeah, he was fine. You know, you're kind of a... I never won anything. I wasn't trying to get tickets or anything. Right. Well, I'm sure he knew that. You're not...

like a person who really loves pop music or... No, I just like some of the music. Fun. No, I mean, you know, you had music on... Every time I did The Tonight Show, all million times, it was like...

Yeah, were kind enough to have me out first, usually. And then there was somebody in a very short dress. Right, right. And then it was, you know, Lady Antebellum. Right, right. And we would walk over to the side of the stage. We broke a lot of bands on the show. You did. Yeah, yeah. And it was always like when you're right there, standing that close to the band, no matter who it was, I was into it. You know? Yeah.

That's why people want to be in the front row. I'm not a big jazz guy, but when I used to open for Miles Davis, I really enjoyed it because I watched it being manufactured. Whoa. You opened for Miles? Miles Davis had an opening act? I'll tell you, Lenny's on the turnpike in Boston. It was Miles Davis, comedian Jay Leno. I didn't get billing. My name was just there. But it was Miles Davis, steak dinner,

Two drinks and the show, $12.95. Where were you in the order of the billing? No, I was first. Reason being the steaks. No, I was first. I was first. And sometimes I'd go on, and Miles wouldn't show up for 90 minutes. One day, somebody took his yellow jacket, and it disappeared. Took his yellow jacket? He always used to wear a yellow jacket, and somebody took it, and we had to find it. Oh, no.

Well, what was that? Kirby Hancock was in the band too. Yeah. What was that crowd like? Well, you know, back then, this predates concerts. Someone like Miles, he would come into Sandy's in Beverly, Massachusetts, any one of these jazz clubs, and you would do five nights.

for the money you'd make it one night playing Symphony Hall or something. But for you as a comic, what was the crowd like? The crowd was great because the crowd was... Super hip. Because it was a jazz audience. So they're there to listen. If they didn't like it, they should know. And they were smart. They were smart audiences, yeah. Right. I remember the first actor, the first jazz guy, we called him jazz, was Buddy Rich.

And they go, this is my first time on stage ever. Please welcome comedian Jay Leno. And you hear a guy go, we hate him! I go, I've never, did they see me come in? Did they know my parents? Why would they hate me? Nothing to go on. Yeah, nothing. I've never been anywhere. It's my first time. Right. You get used to that after a while. That was Kimmel.

No, that was Kimmel. You know, Kimmel's great. I'm just fucking with you. You know, I'm a fan. He has this thing that somehow... We don't have to even... It's fine. You know, I'll tell you something. I want you guys to be friends because I... I think we are. Such great love for both of you. I think he did as good a job hosting the Academy Awards as anybody. Right. Real jokes, really funny jokes, really ad-lib jokes. You know, it's just one of those awkward situations where...

He was a huge Letterman guy. Yes. And when Letterman didn't get to Tonight Show, somehow it was my fault. Right. And I think he resented that. And I get that. But, you know, Dave never had the Tonight Show. I... What? No. No.

Maybe I'm remembering these wars wrong. Here's the situation. I conflate this with the first Iraq war sometime. No, no, no. Is this different? This goes back. No, now you've got to go back to what's the one in Argentina? Falklands. Falklands, yeah. What it was was. That was a nasty one. Dave was a huge hit at 1230, huge. Johnny was a huge hit at 1130. Right. When I started subbing for Johnny, I was lucky enough to be able to maintain Johnny's ratings.

So with me there, they had a hit 1130 and a hit at 1230. And NBC did not want to sacrifice one hit. If they moved Letterman down, I would go to CB. I would just go somewhere else. Right. And then they would have a wide open spot. Right. Plus, there were a lot of executives that did not like Dave because for whatever reason. But you had a situation there where...

They had a hit at 11.30 and a hit at 12.30. To move Letterman down wouldn't have gained them anything. I mean, I guest hosted for five years. I remember asking Zucker, I go, doesn't Letterman have this job? He said, no.

Let him hit at 1230. We want to keep that a hit at 1230. Zucker was when? Zucker was at NBC. Jeff Zucker. I know. He was where at this time? He was at NBC. He was at NBC. He did the Today Show at NBC. Yeah, he did the Today Show at NBC. That was his big, yeah, okay. But Warren and all those people said, you know, that's a hit at 1230, and we want to keep it a hit at 1230. Right. So they had no intention of moving Dave down. Right. Yeah.

You know, I never asked you this, but when you did leave The Tonight Show, there must have been offers to do opposite The Tonight Show show from Fox or something. There were. There were a lot. Why didn't you do it? It's interesting because I heard Kimmel talk to you about that. I had called him, and I did. And I didn't realize I was supposed to do a follow-up call with him, and I certainly apologize for that. But I didn't do it because...

Here's what happened. They decided to, I was still on the air. They demanded that I say I'm going to leave in five years, even though I was going to be there another five years, because Conan people wanted that. I said, all right, fine, fine. I'll leave in five years. Okay, within that five years, Craig Ferguson comes along. And Craig Ferguson is a huge hit. He won a Peabody. I think he won some Emmys. And now he was beating Conan.

And then Zucker called me one day and said, I think we made a mistake. I go, guys, I'm out of here next year or whenever it was. And he said, well, suppose we gave you a show at 10 o'clock. I said, 10 o'clock talk shows don't work. It didn't work for Cabot in 68. It doesn't work. He said, I'll tell you what, I will pay your entire staff for two years regardless of what happens. So all my people get paid for two years even if we get canceled? He goes, yeah.

I said, all right, okay, I'll do a 10 o'clock show. Now, I remember Kimmel thought that, see, people forget all those 10 o'clock dramas were hugely expensive to do, hugely expensive, and they weren't giving the ratings they used to. Like ER. Like ER. Well, ER was a hit, but Law & Order and all the others, and they were just taking a hit at 10 o'clock. The senator's wife.

Senator's wife? I'm saying that must have been a show. Well, something like that, yeah. But anyway, those all were huge expenses. Tia Leone was the senator's wife. Oh, no, she was, Tia Leone was. Something, doesn't matter. Well, she paid the female president. But people in America are very pretentious about their 10 o'clock shows. Right. I feel like they're very. Well, Jeff's thing was, if you put a talk show in there, it'll get essentially the same ratings in a tenth of them.

production growth. Right. I remember I did that show many times. Yeah. A few times. Yeah, okay. So that didn't work. And then, you know, I would say, oh, Lennon deliberately sabotaged his show to try and get the Tonight Show. No, that doesn't work. It doesn't work that way. You try and do the best you can, and it didn't work. And then they said...

How about coming on at 1130? I said, look, I don't want to go through this again. He goes, if Conan moves back to 12, would you do a half hour at 1130? I said, talk to Conan. If you'll go to 12, I'll do a half hour. Just do a monologue and one guest. Okay. And of course, Conan didn't want to do that. And that's when he wrote the letter. And then they put me back in and we became number one again. But

Why did, after you left, why didn't you go to Fox or some other place? I'm pretty loyal. I don't... What? Loyal to these assholes who fired you? You know, sometimes the czar you have is better than the one you're going to get. You know? And here's the thing. Then you have...

Your old team's shooting at you as well. I just figured, let's just play this out and see what happens. This all happened fairly quickly. You know, I called Jimmy Kimmel and I said, I'm getting offers from ABC. I don't want to start a whole thing here. If they're talking about me on 1130, would you want to go on a 1230? I think he said, yeah, you'd like to. I said, oh, okay. We became friends. And then that didn't happen. And it became public.

And I suppose I should have called Jimmy and explained to him again, but I didn't. I don't know why I didn't. I just didn't. I thought he probably figured out. But I think maybe he was hurt by that, and I apologized to him for that. But, Jay, I feel like you're a victim of the terrible last viable prejudice in America, ageism. You have this idea in your head that

that you have to go out to pasture. As I talk to you now, you're exactly the same guy who was there then. So I don't think your brain is diminished. You're doing all these other shows, just doing stand-up. Your hair was white then, now it's white now. It's not like this is a job where you have to... I am a huge believer in low self-esteem.

What? I think it is the key to success. Because when you don't think you're the smartest person in the room, you shut up and you listen. When I got The Tonight Show, I hired the best producer I could, the best director, the people I thought were the best writers. I gave them contracts on a yearly basis, not 13 weeks. I said, do the best you can. And we had the same crew for 22 years. And when they would tell me the show sucked...

I would go, why did it suck? And they'd tell me why it sucked. Who said it sucked? Well, you know, somebody, you know, people, hey, tonight's show sucked. It wasn't good. But who said, are you talking about the fucking gaffer would say that to you? Yes. My theory was anybody can pull the cord and stop the train. You know, I remember one time we had a guy in the basement who I didn't know. I had done at the time a transgender joke. And I heard this guy was really heard about.

And I said, I was looking down to see him, you know, and he explained the situation. I said, you know something, I apologize. I said, you'll never hear another transgender joke from me again.

And he was so taken by the fact that he could bring this show to a screeching halt because of his one complaint. He turned out to be the greatest lighting guy or, you know, sound guy, whatever he did that we had. Oh, I thought you were going to say he sewed his dick back up. No, no, no. No, but I mean, to me, that's what worked. That's what worked for me. The fact that, you know, the fact that here's the thing, you're only as good as your last joke.

When I go on The Tonight Show now with Fallon, I go on as a stand-up. I don't go on as, you know, on my day, here's the way we did the show. You know, I go on as a guy who's a comedian who some of the audience may or may not know that I hosted the show. Jay, we are not competitive on who is a better human being because you always win. And that's fine because it's like I can't even get into this arena with you.

It's like boxing with Mike Tyson. If we're competitive, but like who's funnier, I'll fucking go toe-to-toe with you there. But you are fucking funny. I've always said this to people when they ask me, but I said like as funny as Leno is on television, you have no idea. I remember you and I had a talk once. It's a long time ago. And I was proven right. And I said, Bill, by the nature of what you do and who you are,

It's going to take you a little bit longer, but you're going to be there way longer than everybody else. Jay, I was 56. But what I'm saying is you've been on the air now for 23 years, something like that, doing basically the same show. 30. 30, okay. Well, politically incorrect. Yeah, but what I'm saying was I remember the early days you would complain about not getting guests because they were afraid to come on or whatever. We still have that problem.

Yeah, but you know something? You don't need it. It's nice to have, but you don't need it. No, absolutely. You don't need it. The reason I started this podcast is because it's like, yes, I give up, and I should have given up a long time ago on the idea that, oh, everybody should be able to talk about politics. Well, they don't, and they can't, and that's fine. Right. And here, anybody can be doing this. Right, right. Even you, Jay. Thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you.

Lovely. But what I'm saying is...

I'm just so proud of you, of what you've accomplished. No, no. And the way you've able to do it, how you've, how you've, because I remember when you would come on, you always have like one blowjob joke. Oh, we'd have to edit it out. And I go, I wish Bill wouldn't do the blowjob joke in the middle of a Tonight Show set. We have to edit around it, you know? But you always felt you had to put it in there. But I like the fact that I find the fact that now I watch you and you stand on your own and your points are yours. I know you're

never lying because you tell the truth on the show and it's what you honestly it's the only new show that i watch where i honestly believe the host believes what they're saying i don't have to agree right but i admire the fact that i can see that and i see that well you should guess coming on talking freer than they do on any other show right and that's really what makes i've never missed one of your show oh i do i watch them all i watch them all

Well, I'm all verklempt. So how many days are you on the road now, this era of your own? How many nights? Maybe 150, something like that. I used to do 210, but I don't anymore. You are such a preposterous human being, Jay. But see, I do the road. I don't do comedy specials. I don't believe that. I remember that.

Do you remember when you smoked a pipe? Yes, that was a long time ago. Okay. But I remember you were always a little older and definitely more high up in the show business tree than us youngsters at Catch a Rising Star and the improv and the comedy. Not the comedy store. That was out here. We were in New York, the comic strip. And so like...

I remember there was a pilgrimage once to see you because you were opening for someone at the Westbury Music Fair, which was a level above where we were. Right, right. And there was, oh, we're going to go see Leno and see how he handles that crowd. And we also went to see you at Dangerfields, which was, again, a gig above ours because it was a headliner who would come to see you at a nightclub, a real old-fashioned nightclub, Dangerfields,

on 61st in New York for two weeks, I think you were there. Right, right, right. And we all came and sat by the knee of the great master and you were smoking a pipe. That's right. And giving and doling out your wisdom on... I'll tell you a great Rodney story.

You know, I love Rodney. I knew Rodney 40 years. I had no idea who he voted for. I had no idea what his politics were. It was just about the time. Right. So in 2004, I had...

I had Rodney on the show. And to me, I used to love it when Johnny was with Rodney because Rodney goes, it's been tough. Has it been tough, John? Oh, I tell you, it's been tough. He'd do six minutes and Johnny'd have to tell you a word. But Johnny would just say, rough as it? Oh, I tell you. Bad week? Oh, bad week. He would repeat everything. And I thought, oh, I wouldn't give anything to do that. So when Rodney would come on, he would do that. So I had him on in 2004. And Rodney was in his 80s. Okay. And

He's doing stand-up. I admired him for that. He did stand-up. And he's sweating. And the hand gestures, you know how he does the, oh, I tell you. Well, the hand was a little off. Oh. Not enough that I think a layman would notice, but as a fellow comic and someone who studied Rodney. Right. So I said to Debbie, I said, I

I think Ronnie's having a stroke. Call the paramedics, you know. She goes, really? I said, yeah, there. So Ronnie, when he sat down, I said, Jay, how are you? Things are okay now. But last week, I tell you, you know, he's doing it. And he did fine. And he was fine. So the show ends. He went to the dressing room.

So by this time, the paramedics show up. And I knock on his door. I said, Rodney, paramedics here. Can they look at you? What? What's going on? I said, Rodney, you look like you're having a stroke. I'm fine. Well, I took him on the stretcher. He did have a stroke. Oh. He did have a stroke. But he managed to get through it. OK. So a couple of weeks go by. So he did the show with a stroke.

Well, he looked like he was having a stroke. He got laughs with a stroke. It's like Lou Gehrig hitting, he got 28 hits, I think, while he had ALS. Yeah, okay. That's a good hitter. Well, this is what it was, Rodney. So they take him out. A couple weeks later, Joan calls me, his wife. She goes, Jay, Rodney's in a coma. I said, okay.

You got to come to the hospital. So I get to the hospital. Rodney's lying there. Eyes are open. And John says to me, the doctor said Rodney can hear us, but he can't respond. So I'm looking at him and telling him how much I love him, what he meant to all us comics and how great he was and working at his club was such an honor for me.

So then Joan says to me, "Jay, put your finger in Rodney's hand." She goes, "Rodney, if you know it's Jay, squeeze his finger." So I feel just a slight squeeze and I went, "Rodney, that's not my finger." So Rodney goes like this.

I mean, his shoulder jumped. And Joan did, oh my God, he moved. And then we called the doctor and he didn't last much longer after that. But just to get a laugh out of Rodney like that was great. It was my favorite thing. If there was anything that we needed to complete the Jay Leno resume, it's you making a dead man laugh. Oh,

Okay, Jay, you win. You win. For fuck's sake, you win. It was great. And you made a dead man laugh. Now, here's what I can offer, and it's not nearly on the same level, but it's so interesting. It connects you and Rodney. Yeah. That is this. When I started, and for a number of years after I started, the hardest part was the opening because they don't know you. Right. So how do you, like, break the ice? Like,

The place we are now is such a luxury. Our opening line is, thank you. Thank you. Please sit down. Stop clapping for me because I want to do my show. And this is, thank you so much. But OK. But at the beginning, you had to find a way to do that. And I was just bad at it. And I tried a million things. And it just was not my metier. Rodney and you both had things I was so jealous of because Rodney's was fantastic.

Hey, how you doing? I'm all right now. I'll tell you, last week I was in rough shape. Right, right, right. Like, what can't you go from there? Right, right. So in two seconds he was in, last week I was in rough shape. That's all right, but last week I'll tell you. Last week my wife told me she was only going to have sex once a week. That's all right. Some guys she cut out altogether. Yeah, right. My favorite Rodney joke was,

about, let's see this club, Topless Bottomless. I go in, there's nobody there. I mean, it's such a perfect joke. Economy of words, Topless Bottomless, there was nobody there. When I was my very first year in comedy, he called me in my little shitbox apartment on 8th Avenue

Because someone tried to sell him a joke. My first joke, really, might take a lawyer into confession. Oh, yeah. You know my Dr. Cohen. Yeah. So...

And he had the grace. And what a great guy. Because I was nothing. He could have just bought that joke and said, I don't care if you stole it. Whoever was trying to sell it to him heard me say it and was trying to sell it and steal it. Right, right, right. And I'll always remember that, that he called me. He did not have to do that. No, he's a real comic. Okay. Did you ever meet Joe Ansis? Joe Ansis was his manager? No, Joe Ansis was his muse. Muse? Yeah, Joe Ansis was the guy who...

Oh, yeah. I don't know if you ever saw Rodney before he got the no respect thing. Rodney used to do bits. Really? Yeah. I remember seeing Rodney do it. And it was a funny bit. He used to do those old-fashioned pieces. He'd go, here's an airline pilot. Da-da-da. There you go. And we're flying over. So-and-so. Welcome to flight. So-and-so. We find 148 passengers on board.

On the left side of the plane, if you look out, you can see the wreckage of Flight 907 that crashed two years ago. And then he goes, you were with me on that flight, weren't you, Bob? And it was a huge – but it was like a bit like a Smothers Brothers kind. Rodney? Yes, yes. Yeah, Rodney used to do material. I never heard of him. And Joe Ansis was a guy – Oh.

He gave him a character. Think of the funniest guy you know who's afraid to get on stage. Right. He was that kind of a guy. And Rodney would sit with Joe after shows, and I think they'd kibitz and go back and forth. And if you read the book, it's a Goldman, Albert Goldman, Ladies and Gentlemen, Lenny Bruce. If you read that book, there's a whole lot of stuff in there about Joe Anthony. I'm a big Albert Goldman fan. No, really. Okay. Well, his Elvis book. Yeah. Did you ever read the Lenny book? No.

Not the Lenny one. I read the John Lennon one and the Elvis one. Well, you should read the Lenny Bruce one. I will. Albert Goldman took a lot of shit, and maybe he is a shit, but I tell you. Oh, what's that? Sorry, let me just turn my phone off. Jay, you're the last person I ever thought.

Would have a phone. I didn't even think you had a cell phone. Oh, yes, yes. But you don't text, really, do you? Not really, no. I mean... I don't like having a permanent record of everything I say. No. Just like... Oh, for fuck's sake. Why?

What, you're friends at the CIA? No, no. You're going to fucking get Jason Bourne to assassinate you because of something? What are you talking about? Texting is for just business. You're right. You don't want to write a love letter on text, but that's not what it's for. Whenever somebody tries to start a serious, long conversation on text, I'm like, no, that's for some other method of communication. I did a joke you would like. I said...

President Biden. Someone in the club, someone asked me, said, aren't you afraid of being attacked on stage like Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock? And I go, no. Yeah. Because my audience is my age. By the time they're getting out of that ship, I'm halfway to Cleveland. Again, ageist, Jay. You're too into that ageist.

See, I remember the old days when the only performance you could punch on stage were mimes. Remember? You'd go, hey, guy trying to get out of the box. Hey, come here. Smart enough. But Jay, I'm going to finish my story about Rodney. Go ahead. And why...

I was jealous of you and Rodney for the same thing, which was getting into what you're doing quickly. Yeah. Rodney had that. You used to come out and go, see the paper? See the paper? Yeah, see the paper today? And it was like, oh, fuck, that's so great. One of yours was, see the paper? Muhammad Ali's coming out of it. I think he's fighting Buddy Epson. Yeah. I think he was fighting Buddy Epson at the time. Who was? Exactly. Of course.

Barnaby Jones. Like a 90-year-old. Barnaby Jones. You know Barnaby's going to fight when someone called him Pops. Hey, Pops! Well, yeah, stupid. Yes, well, how about he's going to fight Buddy Epson? And you were like into it. Yeah, you just start going. And I was like, fuck, I need something like that. That used to drive...

Seinfeld crazy. Why? What do you mean? Because he'd watch me and I'd have a complete non-sequitur and it meant nothing. I'd go, da-da-da-da. It's the same with insurance. And he would go, wait, wait a minute. What's the same with insurance? After the third time you see him, you go, wait a minute. That has nothing to do with insurance. What are you talking about? And I would go, it's the same with insurance. Wait a minute. Wait, you still do that? No, no. But I'm sure I do it in some other form, but yeah.

But like when you do your act now, like I talked to you recently on the phone. You were at some Indian casino in upstate New York. Yeah, I was just there a couple of Sundays ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was the Gabino tribe, but Gabino. It was Chief Compadrinka. Yeah, Chief Compadrinka, yeah. Okay, so like you do 90 minutes? Yeah, about 90. Okay.

And of course, you do it not like me with a poor man's teleprompter. You know, I have a music stand on stage. Oh, really? Yeah. I've had that for over 20 years. Oh, okay. You think I could remember? I don't know, but it works. 90 minutes? It works. Yes, it works. I mean, of course, when I do a stand-up special...

like I just did adulting. Right. It's on a teleprompter, but when I was just in Montreal, I was just in Mount Pleasant, Michigan, there's a music stand and I can't remember 90 minutes. How can you remember 90 minutes?

In the right order, Jay. Well, I clear my head of everything else. Oh, well, if you're going to go there. Yeah, I'm sure. Well, fuck that. I'm trying to work on a thing now I thought was... Clear your head. I'm watching this. Tell me if this is funny. I'm watching... I see this commercial with Doug Flutie and Frank Thomas, some kind of male enhancement thing, right? Yeah.

And they're playing golf. And they're male enhancement. And then he goes, and women like it too. Wink, wink. I go, yeah, yeah, try that tomorrow at the office, OK? By the second week, HR will have you on the floor and all your stuff in the box. Come on, pops. Come on, let's go. And women like it too. Wink, wink. Yeah, that's going to go over real big. So are you saying this is a bit you're going to? Is it funny? It's very funny. Yeah, OK. But, you know, Jay, you're a funny guy.

But when you do your 90 minutes, it's more stuff like that. Because that's the old Leno that I remember that blew everybody away. That's really the Leno that you brought to when you started doing Letterman as a guest on Letterman. I mean, you would just blow the roof off the place. Because you were doing chunks of your act that were really funny. And they were...

But they weren't political. You got more political when you hosted The Tonight Show. Right, right. But you had that whole hunk about the sucking the sugar sacks dry in 7-Eleven. Yeah.

Remember the people who were in 7-Eleven? Oh, yeah, vaguely. Yeah, I can't remember that. Yeah, yeah. And whole shit packs in it. You know, like, whole bags of sugar sucked dry. You know, the fun part was, I remember what I would do letterman was to come up with words that were not swear words, but were hopefully funnier. So in the sense that we, oh, maybe I had the bit, God, I remember one of the bits was about, uh,

Those traveling carnivals and the syphilitic druids running the rides. The shirtless man, nice looking boy, lady. You know, that kind of deal. No, that's not where you said druid. You had a great bit about Bo Derek.

And what was that? Bo Derek and John Derek were two gorgeous people. Right, right. And they got married. Right, right. And you were like, okay, I could see the attraction, but like after they have sex, what is that conversation like? So the Druids were a working people. Do you remember that? Vaguely, yeah. That always killed me. So the Druids were a working, that's what they, imagine you said, I mean, they said after sex.

But, no, you had a great... So that's what your act is now, more like that. Yeah, you know, I took politics out. Oh, you did? Because... Like, you wouldn't comment on what's going on with the Trump... No, because here's where you are now. You should have elated half the crowd. I do a couple of references, and I notice the audience...

Here's the name. You know, Biden did this. Right. And then they wait. Is it going to be pro or con? Right. And they decide and go, you know, can we just rise and fall on the joke? Right. You know, I like to think there's some people who go to a comedy show. They just want to see comedy. That's all. They don't want to get a lecture. They don't want to be yelled at or whatever it might be. So you just that's what I love about Rodney. Right.

No idea where Rodney stood politically. Couldn't care less. It was just about the joke. And that's what I'm trying to do now. But let's not say, Jay, that there's no place in the world for someone who you do know exactly where they stand politically. No, I think it's great. No, no. Because then I don't have an act at all. My situation is different. I do the other America a lot. No, I know. And, you know, like on this game show, You Bet Your Life, we sold it on the premise that there's no politics. Right. Right.

And people bought it on the premise. Because I see people come on, I see a contestant, I go, okay, I can tell right away, this is a guy I would not agree with politically. And that's fine. Jay, one of the major themes I've expressed over the last four or five years on the show, it's also in my stand-up act, is that

The biggest problem is that there is so much hate, people can't even know what the other side is saying. Exactly. So the main way to reduce that hate, or at least the first step, is everyone has to stop

talking politics all the time. We didn't used to do this. The neighbor back when we were kids could have been what we would now call a Trumper, but we didn't go there. And therefore we got along and the people who think that somehow half of the country they despise will self-deport or

are delusional. There's not going to be a civil war, or if there is, there's no way to split the country by states. We're all marbled in together. There's 4 million Trump voters in California. I mean, we can't do that.

we have to stop being political about everything. So anything that, like, and again, not me, I'm the exception here, but everybody else or lots of other people, be apolitical. You're right. Do it that way because...

You have to be able to get along with those people. I always say you can hate Trump. You can't hate all the people who like him. Right, exactly. It's half the country. And you know, I remember... You always had your finger on the pulse of that beat. That's why your show was so successful. You... That's why I do personals, because if you can't stand in front of people and do the joke, then it's not effective. You're a coward. You should be able to do the material to the people's faces.

And if they don't like it, they'll let you know. And people understand when you're being fair and unfair and what's a joke and what's not a joke, you know? I mean, is this a Trump joke? I saw this political science professor on the news and he analyzed all of Donald Trump's speeches.

And he said that Donald Trump talked at a fifth grade level or below. And when they told Trump this, he called the professor a duty head. Is that a political joke? Of course. Yeah. Of course. But if you follow it with a Biden joke, then, oh, then it's okay. Well,

Well, I mean, that's a political joke for this exact reason, because every single person who hears it will like it or not like it based on how they feel about Donald Trump. Right, exactly. His fans will hate it. Right. And his detractors will adore it. And everyone will realize it's not really that great a joke. Right, right, right. It's okay. But when you follow it with a Biden joke, oh, okay, then again. Right. I mean, I find that you actually have, I've had reviewers count people

Which side? How many were... You know, I think he's more this because there were like nine jugs on this and four on this. But I mean, you certainly used to do that on The Tonight Show.

Yeah. But then you have to because you're doing them on a lot. We've got to hate mail from both sides. Of course. And that's when you know you're doing it right. Right. That's what I, I mean, I get for the first time in the last couple of years, I get a mixed audience. I know. Politically. That's what I like about your show now. Stand up also. Yeah, yeah. Like where 40% will be sort of conservative and I'll do a Trump joke and I can, but then they'll still laugh.

Right. They're not crazy, all of them. They know he's a preposterous figure. Right, exactly. And now he's really going to look like he couldn't be going down. Yeah. I mean, I really was pessimistic about him coming back and winning in 2024. This January 6th hearing, I got to give it to these people and some of this stuff that's going to come out. I do think he's...

I think it's taking them to a degree where they're just going to go, no. Plus, the country has other problems. They're not concerned about the last election. Yes, exactly. And they see that this guy is, as I always said, everything comes back to the narcissism. That's right. When you're a narcissist, nothing is seen through any other lens. The whole thing is, I lost the election. That can't be right because I'm a stable genius. Right.

Just the fact that he said he wanted the metal detector removed because anybody with a gun is not coming after him. He's the president. I know. Well, in that crowd, kind of.

In that crowd, he was kind of right about that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and, you know, he always said, we have the tough people. Yeah. Meaning the military, the police. And that's very scary when a civilian leader is talking about, like, I don't want to push you too far, but I want you to know we have the tough people with us. In other words, the people with the guns. I mean, we're so close to banana republic and military. We're close, but we're not there. You know, you got Mark Neely and these guys. Who?

A joint chief of staff, you know, military. General. Oh, Milley, yeah. Yeah, Milley. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Had dinner with him, too, actually. Come on. I did. I had dinner with him in Washington. Oh, fuck you, Jay. I did. He's a very nice guy. I know. And a very reasonable guy. Shut up. He's a Massachusetts guy. Is...

So how did the, is there just a, is there an 800 number where like important people just pull you up? No, but I do a lot of veteran things. So you get invited. Oh, I see. You get invited to have dinner and all that kind of stuff. Of course. Perfect Jay. Always doing the right thing. So the world leaders want to talk to him. It's hilarious, isn't it? Yeah. I'm having dinner with William Shatner next week. There you go. Suck on that, Jay. There you go. There you go. There you are. I rest my case. I can't.

I know you have a deal with Lionel Wagner. Is he still with us? No, I don't think so. Well, why? I'm just making fun. Why drag him? I thought the name would get a laugh from you, which it did. No, when you walked in and you said, welcome to Ab's Place, James Franciscus. Yeah, that's right. Look what James Franciscus gave me, you know, some 19-year-olds. All right, well.

I can't tell you how much fun this is. This was fun. Thanks for having me on. You got so loaded, Jay. Oh, God. You know me. That's my life. You've never had a drink? No. Come on. It doesn't interest me. Right. But you never were curious as to just... Well, I'm sure your liver thanks you. Huh?

Yeah, I just, I have no moral, religious, or anything for or against it. Right. I was always the car guy. I was a designated driver. So it's just not something that interests me. You're a car guy? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, there's a side you know nothing about. I was supposed to do Jay Leno's Garage.

Yeah, but you know nothing about cars. So what? It's a celebrity show. You have another show on YouTube that's really about cars. Right, right. But Jay Leno's Garage, you don't have to be... You want to be on? Well, I'll be on. You booked me. I wasn't one. And what happened? I got COVID. Oh, that's what it was. Okay. Yeah, so it wasn't our fault. I understand you just had a bout of COVID. I did. Jay, I'll tell you a story if you die.

I'm joking. I'm just, I'm always mocking how overreactive everyone is to fucking COVID. Well, yeah. So you were fine, right? Yeah, I'm fine. Everybody was fine. I mean, everybody seems to get it now. But, you know, the thing is less virulent. We've had vaccines. Like, people got to let it go, don't you think? Well, I think you got to be, it does affect people differently. So I don't know. Okay, let's not, we won't go there. Yeah. Yeah.

But this car, I'm fascinated by this. So what do you drive? Right now I'm driving a 71 Porsche 911. Which of the 250 cars? Well, 203 actually. Okay, so how do you decide when you have that many cars? I mean, you're kind of like the Hugh Hefner of cars. You have a harem of cars. Whatever I'm working on at the time is usually what...

So that's what you want to... What does it cost you just...

To maintain, like, registrations, insurance. It's crazy. You must have a whole staff. I mean, you must have a registration come up every other day. Yeah, I know. And there's somebody who handles this? Yeah, yeah. We got it covered. We're fine. I know you're worried about it. No, I'm just... I got a full shop. It's so interesting. I do paint and body work. We do metal work. We do fabrication. Really? Yeah, it's 140,000 square feet garage. I mean, if I hit somebody, I could, like, get...

You'd fix it for me? I don't know if I'd fix it for you, but I'd help you out. Really? You'd do the work? You'd do the body work? That's what we do. That's what we do. Oh, okay. I didn't know it was such a... Oh, yeah. Come by sometime. I'm booked on your show.

Well, you're not booked now. But I was. Yeah, but you've got COVID, so we'll do it next season. You know what? You don't have to have me if you don't want me. No, I'd love to have you on. If it's really more about the car than the person. No, I'd love to have you on. But I feel like I've volunteered. I taught Norm Macdonald how to drive on my show. I know how to drive, Jay. I have an excellent drive. I sound like Rain Man now. I have an excellent driving record. I do.

And I watched Wapner every day. Wapner? Well, that was in Rain Man, wasn't it? Oh. Remember he was Judge Wapner. I used to have a joke about Wapner. Do you remember that joke? That's when People's Court was the only judge show on TV. And Wapner was huge. And I said, you know, it must be tough, though, when he goes to where...

The judges hang out. You know that bar, like, and they're sitting there going, well, I think the rights of the individual triumph the rights of the majority in certain cases. Here comes Wapner. Hey, how's the case of the puppy stained carpet? How's that working out? You know? I think I do remember that. Yeah, it was a stupid joke. Oh, Jay, you always say that about your jokes. It's a stupid joke.

But you wouldn't do it if it was stupid. When there was a writer's strike, like, you wrote your own monologue. Right, right. And nobody else could have done that. There's nobody else who... Well, I'm glad the strike didn't last that long. You're both... Somehow, you're somehow both the guy who never fired a writer, right? Isn't that one of your... No, I never fired anybody. Right. Guys left because they got better opportunities. Right. Okay. You never fired a writer, which, that's preposterous. And you...

you also can actually write your own monologue so you could have fired them all. No, not really, because The Tonight Show is too laborant. It's just too much. No, but I remember during the strike, I remember listening to it. I was like, wow, that's an actual real monologue of real new jokes. You must have really worked your ass off. You know, the key to that, I remember one guy said to me on the street one day, hey, I don't like you, but I like your jokes.

I said, okay, so you don't like to manufacture, but you like the product. That's fine. That works with me. I would always see comedians guest host different shows, and they never had material.

I mean, the reason Ellen was successful is she was a comedian. She opened the show with real jokes. It wasn't just, ooh, everybody cool? Ooh, give me some funk. It wasn't that. I know. Ellen's a great comedian. Great comic. Great comic. Thinks like a comic. Yes. Has funny jokes. Absolutely. Has an edge to her that's good. And the delivery is perfect. Yeah, she's great. The timing. Excellent. Spot.

spot on Benny timing, you know, like, and a minimalist, you know, without ever raising the voice. Right, right. And also, like, uh, uh,

in her standup, very apolitical. Right. Right. You know, very like everybody can get in on this. And that, I keep saying, we need more of whatever can make us have a communal experience. I agree. And you can't, you're right about your show. You can't, your show, you can't have any politics because right away, everything is tribal. Yeah. And we, and we didn't used to be there in this country. No, no. I mean, a man of, you know,

Jay, what are you, 10, 15 years older than me now? Yes, yes, I'm 88 years old. No, no, no. I mean, I know you're in your sevens. Yeah, I'm 72. 72. Yeah. How old are you now? 66. 66. Yeah. I know. But again... You're not so funny about that. You look the same because you have that Italian thing. No, you look the same because we look the same. I remember once the Rolling Stones were on TV in my office and some interns came in and I went...

You know, they got to give him, Mick Jagger looks pretty good. And they look at them and they're like, I mean, they were just laughing because he was this old, old man. And I go, does he really look that old? And they're like, Mr. Lalo, the guy's 82 or 61 or whatever. Oh, this is recently? Yeah. I mean, this was like maybe 70 years ago. Well, I mean, now. It just made me laugh. No, I saw them in the. I'll give you another example. We're sitting, we were shooting the car show, you know.

And the director said to one of the PAs, hey, Dave, when did you graduate high school? He said 2012. So 2019, 27, 2014.

When did you graduate high school, Mr. Leno? 68. 68? 68? Yeah, but Jay... That's in 19... No, 1868, you know. But you know what, Jay? What every other country in the world understands is that that makes you wiser. That makes you know things that other people don't know, which is not a detriment, right?

It's an ad. It's a plus. Right. It's good that you know that every other country, every other culture has always gotten this. This is the only stupid fucking one that looks at that and goes, well, it couldn't possibly have any meaning if I wasn't alive for it. Well, I was talking to one of your producers that made me laugh. I was talking to a young person, a younger person, maybe 35.

And he said, in the course of account, he goes, well, you know, back in the 90s, people were really stupid back then. I go, really? What was stupid about the 90s? What was the stupid part of the 90s? Like, people were illiterate, they couldn't read? What was the... And he couldn't tell me what it was, but it's just, people were just stupid back then. Well, people just get more and more stupid, unfortunately. I mean, because the people who... I mean, they were stupid in the 90s, but those people who were...

in the 90s, then became the teachers sometimes of the people. I mean, you know, like it's so, we're at least two generations past, I think, the last time. I mean, Gen X is the last generation that like wasn't a bunch of pussies. And I don't think this country can ever come back from where we are. I mean, people say, well, you know. It'll come back for you. Well.

Well, yes. You know what it is? I mean, it's like you talk about the greatest generation, and then you suddenly go to our generation. You see guys like Pat Tingle there. You know, remember the football player who gave up a lucrative. Pat Tillman. I mean, Tillman. I'm not Tingle. Pat Tillman, sorry. Died in Afghanistan. Died in Afghanistan. A friendly fire. He was an Arizona Cardinals star, a linebacker. Yeah, I mean, here's a guy who could have had a multimillion dollar career, chose to fight for his country. You'll always have those people.

And nine times out of 10, they'll be first generation. Okay. They'll be named Morales or...

or, you know, have some Spanish surname, or Cuban, or American, or Italian, or Latin, because those are the ones that keep the country great. They come in, they fight for the country, they have children, you know. When we used to knock on doors... That's kind of a fuck you to the Smiths and the Jones, huh? Well, I remember once we were doing a jaywalk. They don't fight for their country? And this guy answers the door, and he speaks Spanish, older guy, like 70-something.

Okay. He gets his son. The son comes over. He speaks English and Spanish. And then he introduced me to his son, who's got like an FU t-shirt on and some kind of pork pie hat. And he's got a video game. And he's just an idiot. I mean, the old man was probably still working. And his son was still working, but not as hard as the old man. And the kid was just a lazy thing. What about the Jews, Jay? Do they make your list of the good people? Yes, they do. No, thank you. The Jews are in.

Yes, they do. What about the Filipinos? Yes, I love the Filipinos. I think they would fight for their country. They're very, very... Well, that's exactly what I mean. But I think the first, just first generation people, that was one of the saddest things when they closed the border and you had all these people who...

could have come here and instead they'll go to someplace else. You know, Steve Jobs was Syrian, I believe, wasn't he? Well, one of his parents, I believe, was Syrian. Well, that's, I mean... Sure. He could have gone to another country. Yes. I mean, well, you're Italian, I'm Irish. I was telling Lisa Kudrow that my grandfather, who I never met, but he was my grandfather, had a full-on Irish brogue. I mean, we're a young country. Yeah.

And it shows, by the way, because we act like a teenager still. I mean, I think in historical terms, we are sort of like a little bit out of our teens, but still acting like douchebaggy teenagers.

You know, I see the Elvis movie in the theaters now. It always makes me think, like, this country is very Elvis-like. We're, like, fat, drug-addled, like, delusional gun nuts. Right, right. Just like Elvis. I mean, his story resonates because that's the story of us. This is us. He was 42 when he died. It seems so old when I was 25.

Do you remember where you were? Yes, I do. I do too. I was 21. I was driving back from my summer, the trip you take to see the country where you drive. And we had no money and an $800 car and were selling hash like easy rider. Right, right. And made it all the way to California. And then, of course, that took like six weeks and we wanted to get back home so bad. We drove home like in two days. Yeah, that's funny. And I heard it on the radio. Yeah.

Driving through Pennsylvania, Elvis Presley. And he wasn't even my era, really, because I was Beatles. Elvis was like, oh, he's like this old school. Right, right. And he...

But when he came back, like after the movie contract in 1970 and Suspicious Minds, that kind of stuff, he was cool again to me. I remember when he died, I said, you know something, I'm going to go up to Tower Records and buy an Elvis record. By the time I got there, there wasn't one record left. Everything Elvis had been sold.

It was like, wow, he only died like four hours ago. And yet you told me a story not that long ago. What's that? That you were in Vegas and they were taking down a big... No, I saw these two guys carrying Elvis's, one of those six-foot cardboard cutouts. Right. And I said, oh, are you putting up an Elvis thing? The guy goes, putting it up. No, we're taking it down. He goes, nobody knows who Elvis is anymore. All his fans are 80, you know. Yeah, and they just passed me in the hall, you know.

That stuck with me. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, obviously, since they made a movie, he must still have some resonance. Of course he still has resonance. Of course he does. Sure he does. But you're saying like there were... No, I'm just saying it's just a change of, you know, if you don't know, you don't know. But I mean, it's a little scary to think that someone as big and iconic as Elvis could be like, who...

But I'm sure he is, too. Was anybody bigger than Al Jolson? No. No? Say the names. Al Jolson? Al Jolson was huge. Is he the guy who did the blackface? Yeah, yeah. Mammy and Slammy. Yeah, Al Jolson. Jazz singer, the first talker. Okay, yes. You don't remember Al Jolson? Even Bing Crosby.

Yes. Frank Sinatra. I'm guessing the name rings a bell, but people have no idea that, you know. I mean, a friend of mine has a kid who's 14 who knows me as the car guy. Had no idea I...

His father said, you know, he did this night show before Jimmy Fallon. You're right. Nuh-uh. You know. You know, he did. Nuh-uh. Well, that's the famous Paul McCartney when he was in Wings. Like, people didn't know he had the wings. I have him on my phone. I have the funniest call from Paul McCartney. Oh. He calls and he goes. All right, that's all the time we have on the show. No, it sounds like a phony call. He goes, Jay, Paul, Paul McCartney calling. Yeah.

How are you? Because I asked him to be on my car show. And I called and I left a message. And he called me back to say that he's really busy right now. He's on tour, but maybe next season. I said, okay. But it's really funny to hear him just, hello, Jay.

Paul McCartney. Well, Jay, it may interest you to know that Tommy James of Tommy James and the Shondells. Crystal and Clover over and over. Speed dial. So fuck you, Jay. Thank you for coming by. Bobby Vinton. Bobby Vinton. I'm sorry that you have. Bobby Vinton is out in the hall right now. He's on the show. Thank you, my friend. Thanks for having me. I know. You know, anytime you call me, I will. I know. And like.

You're the kind of guy, like, this is how we get to have a conversation.