Harvey Levin | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I just loved your show last week. Oh. I loved your show last week. So many people say to me, you know, I'm your biggest fan, but you really are. I really am. I really am. It's impossible to, I mean, I would love you anyway, but like, of course, you know, especially someone like me who's been denied so much of my deserved appropriate, uh,

uh, you know, uh, whatever recognition in this industry by the mainstream establishment. So when the, I'm kind of small potatoes, when the small, but yeah, but when the smarter people appreciate what you do, it makes it, you know, and I do, I pray so appreciate that you appreciate it. Oh my God. It's just, I, it was so good. And you do know that, um,

I'm constantly saying to people when they say, did you see this like on, you know, some cable news? And I'm always like,

No, I get all my news from TMZ. They must go crazy. Wait a second. And they think I'm kidding. And of course, I'm not kidding. Because I gave up cable news pretty much. I still like Jake Tapper, but very few. That was a good interview, too. That was a great interview. That was a great interview. Yeah. No, he's a real newsman. But I loved seeing you on the other side of it. I used to do it all the time with Larry King.

you know i used to like when larry king was i don't remember you doing that oh i did it a million times did you still you must not have watched larry king i hosted for la i was the uh guest host for a long time you couldn't watch it every night i must i didn't watch it every night i must have done it it became like what the tonight show was for me in the 80s like something i would do four or five times a year it was a real presence and he would always give me the full hour

He told me they always doubled their ratings, so that was good. They went from like a million to two million or something. But that was like a big, I love that. It was so good. But it is so funny that I feel like I saw Sam Harris...

say that he recently gave up Twitter, you know? Right. And he was like, I did it for my psyche, you know? And I totally understood that even though I'm not someone who's ever been on Twitter, really a little bit. I used to tweet until it became like, oh my God, anything fun you would say, they'd cancel you. So what the fuck am I using this? But the fact that he was like, I gave up Twitter and my psyche is so much better.

I'm kind of that way with cable news. I am so much happier getting it from you. And I feel like you and your crew have a way. Of course, it's not the only news I get because you don't cover the kind of things I have to cover in depth.

But as far as TV, yes, I read different things. But I feel like I'm getting what the broad audience of the country, because you do hit on topics that are not just celebrity stuff. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, we're like a pop culture. Yeah. I mean, it's mostly this, the Vanderpump, whoever the fuck they are, did this or this one did this. But, you know, along the way, and then there are opinions. Yeah.

I mean, like we did the Alec Baldwin case today. Right. But that's celebrity. I mean, that's not Ukraine got a drone shot. But you know what's interesting? It is celebrity. But it's there are issues that make people care about things they otherwise wouldn't care about. That if it's Joe Schmoe, but like the Alec Baldwin case is bullshit.

It is a bullshit, ridiculous prosecution where they're just grabbing headlines. Yes. It is outrageous. They charged. I know we almost always agree, which is great. Outrageous. And I said the same. Well, yes. I mean, like I would just put it this way.

Do you think Alec Baldwin purposely shot the cinematographer? If no, then what are we talking about? No, no, no, that's not true. You can have a manslaughter case, which this is, with the armorer, where somebody engages in reckless conduct and they don't intend to kill, but they can be convicted of manslaughter. So you don't have to prove there's an... I think that's ridiculous too. No, it's not. Either it's a... What if you get in the car drunk and...

and you drive into... Drunk is different. No, it's not. It's still manslaughter. But that should be... Okay, you're the lawyer. It's manslaughter. I know, but it... Okay, that should be different than what Alec Baldwin did. Because Alec Baldwin is not the same thing as getting drunk where you have culpability. But he didn't do anything. They charged the armorer with manslaughter, right? She's the expert. She's the one... So if you're saying the expert had the duty, why does an actor have to...

double-check their work. It doesn't make any sense. We're agreeing on that part of it. I'm talking about the legal part of it. And by the way, what I think happened was they were so concerned about fucking COVID masks. That's my theory. I'm just pulling this out of my ass, but it could be true. What do you mean? I think that everyone... It's so typical of how America reacts to everything. Wrong. Always scared of the wrong things. And they could have been so...

apoplectic about everything COVID and germs on this set that they therefore forgot about the bullets and the gun. Oh my God. I mean, if I was rewriting in this as a play, that's what I would do to make that point about what I think America does when it has confronted with a crisis. But on the legal point,

Come on, don't you think getting drunk means you have some, that's an action you took and then got in your car versus just an honest mistake that that should not be manslaughter. Well, no, but we agree on Alec Baldwin. But if somebody gets in a car drunk and that's reckless and they kill somebody, that's precisely what manslaughter is. Right. Right.

I guess I would call that like fourth degree murder. Is there such a thing? No. That would be because it would be like, yes, it's murder, but you in no way directly intended to do it. But you knew you could maybe murder by doing this stupid thing. So can we talk about law today? Because I feel like I need the upper hand on something. There's no upper hand. I mean, you have that background in law, which I think is also great on your show because-

Not that you need an extra dimension to be smarter than those kids you work with. Oh, stop it. What? They're great. Okay. See, this is where you and I disagree on something. We don't disagree as much as you think. I think we do. Okay. You have a lot of contempt. Okay.

That what I have contempt for is that they don't know, when they don't know something and you do, their attitude is, oh, dad, what an asshole. You know things. Like you're the asshole because you know something and they don't. Whereas a more...

I feel like a humble generation would be, I feel like this is the way we were. It's like, oh, if I don't know something, I'm the idiot. You know, all that generation does is, I wasn't born for that. You know, even if you mention a movie, I wasn't born. Yeah, that's why we put it on celluloid. I disagree with you, man. I'm watching it every night. So I'm a little bit older than you.

But you probably know this. During the Vietnam War, there was a mantra in my generation. And you know what that was? We are the same generation. Well, what was the mantra? Make love, not war. Well, that was one. Don't trust anyone over 30. OK, sure. OK, well, what's the difference? I mean, you know, that's the rite of passage with young people that they have contempt for. Look, it's not like we did a great job with this world.

And so they're looking at what was left to them

And I did that during the Vietnam War thinking, how could they lead us down this path? And that mantra was real. That was not just a thing. It was real at Bill. I don't think that's a bullshit thing. It was. No, that every generation, they left us. You know, every generation does what they can. They're living their lives. They're probably doing the best that they can given whatever the circumstances are. Do you think we're better off today than we were four years ago?

say 30 years ago? Well, let me tell you something, President Carter, we're better off when you lose your job. No, I just, I mean, better off, it's, first of all, whatever the answer to that is, it doesn't matter because there were so many other factors that came along that were not something that any generation can control. Most of history, I think, is first of all, dictated by the technology.

It's not even in our control. You know, they were going to get rid of slavery. And then along came the cotton gin. Somebody invented the cotton gin. And it made slavery incredibly difficult.

Okay. So humans reacted the way humans usually react. But there are human judgments that people make and choices that people make. And I could understand why somebody 30 years old who is looking at a pipe dream of buying a house or worrying about whether the world will even last. Right.

And who are they going to blame? They're not going to blame their contemporaries because they weren't the ones in charge. There are people in charge of things. Despite technology, people are in charge of things, and they're older people. So the way they look at us, honestly, it's kind of the way I look at people who got us into the Vietnam War.

Okay, well, that really wasn't our generation. That was my generation. No, it wasn't. That was the World War II generation. They were the ones in charge. Kennedy, Nixon, Johnson, those are people who were World War II people. Okay?

Kennedy served in World War II. So did Nixon, who prosecuted that war more than anybody. But isn't the principle the same? Well, you're blaming a former generation, but it is not our generation. You're a baby boomer. I'm a baby boomer. That's the greatest generation. They're different.

But they're different in our eyes. But they're not necessarily different in the eyes of, like, my staff that is looking at... But again, then they don't know things. They, you know, then they're ignorant. Because generation, if we're talking about generations, we should not lump them all together. Then why don't we lump us with the millennials? Because we're different generations. But we said don't trust anyone over 30. That is a sweeping statement. Well, it was as stupid then as it is now. Yeah.

It was stupid. Yes, because everyone... It didn't feel stupid then. Because you were under 30. Okay, well, my staff is... A lot of them are under 30. I'm saying, and when you're in your 20s, you're basically an idiot. I look back at what I was thinking and doing in my 20s, and I go, what a fucking idiot. I've said this before here. Even at this age of 67, if you asked me, would you... If a genie said you'd go back and be 25 again, would you do it? I would say, no. No.

If I still had to have that brain in my head, because I know all the pain that's going to come from being that dumb.

If I could go back knowing what I do now, yes, that would be a fantastic deal. But you say dumb, and maybe they don't have the historical knowledge that we have just because of the fact that we've lived a lot longer. But I will tell you, and I mean this, there is no way TMZ would be successful if this were all in my head. We're talking about two different things. Well, we're not really. We are. They have a skill set. You're expanding this one area that I'm...

focusing in on with that generation, with the people who you work with, who are very likeable. I don't dislike these people. I watch them every night. If I didn't like them, I wouldn't watch every show every night. But you're trying to expand this in a way that is, I don't think, valid. Yes, that generation has a tough time economically. I get it. They also have...

The future there for them to take, the one good thing that's still left about America is that you can make your own way and you can reinvent yourself. That's true. Tomorrow. That's true. You did it. I did it. It's still available for them. And they do seem...

I feel for them when they talk about lives that don't seem happy. But, you know, my life wasn't terribly happy in my 20s either because that's the decade you're spending where you're trying to establish yourself. Of course it's a harder grind. You're in the infancy of your adulthood. That was my favorite decade. What? My 20s.

It really was. Really? Yeah. Your favorite? It was my favorite because, I mean, you know, I got out of law school and I went down to Miami and I taught law school and

And I just felt like the, and I made 11,500 bucks and I felt rich. And I was experiencing all these new things as an adult. It was magical for me. I loved my 20s. Loved my 20s. It's so interesting. I always thought we agreed on everything. We don't agree on anything.

I think we do. We do. I think we do. And I so appreciate it. You're like my Patroni, really. I mean, I feel like... I don't understand it because I'm... Because TMZ will like put my shit up there and, you know, whoever edits that does a fine job. I do that one personally. Oh, see. Yeah.

There you go, not trusting the millennials arm. No, I just get up earlier than that. Oh, yes, you do. It's past your bedtime now. It's only quarter. You're right. But, no, but, you know, it really has a lot of people who would never be aware of my show. Some people don't even get HBO. Kids don't watch TV. They don't watch TV. That's not their thing, you know. Well, you know, there's going to be a...

huge sea change because all these cord cutters, you know, now that it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger, you know, what's cable is in some trouble over this. It really is. And I think, you know, social media is so dominant. I was stunned during the Johnny Depp trial that that was, that opened my eyes and I realized, um,

People were getting their news from TikTok. And yes, it was biased and it was skewed, but that's where it came from. Now that I get my news from TMZ, it feels like a Wall Street Journal now, right? That's exactly what I'm saying. That's exactly right. Compared to getting it on TikTok. No, you're right. You're fucking Walter Cronkite.

See, that's what I... It's totally true. That's hysterical. Not to go back to this thing, but I do want to go back to this thing, I guess I do, about your crew. I don't dislike them, but if I said Walter Cronkite or you said it... They would have no idea. They'd be like, who's that? And you'd tell them and they'd roll their eyes like...

Oh, knowing things. That's so old. It's like that bugs me, you know? Can I tell you something funny that they did today? I heard one of them said one day, why would you ever read a book?

Okay, he's an outlier. Her. It was her. Okay, she's an outlier. Okay. Well, I guess there's two of them. Well, sometimes I deserve it. Today, it was so funny in the morning meeting. We were talking about a documentary on Cheetos, on flaming Cheetos.

It actually sounds kind of interesting. No, there's a big documentary on it. And so I started, you know, I pulled a Tuesday with Maury on him and I started telling him a story because I worked in my dad's liquor store.

when I was growing up and I said, you know, when I was working in the store, there were, you know, they introduced a bunch of new Cheetos and I remember that this guy came in with this big box and it was the first time I had ever seen Lay's potato chips. They had just come out. And Devin in my office kind of looked at me stunned and said, you're older than chips? Laughter Laughter

That's a scream. Oh, you know, some of them are witty. Oh, they're really funny. Yeah. I mean, there's a few of the guys there are like, oh, these guys are going to be comedy writers. They are good. I guess. And the other thing is that they, I guess,

I take umbrage because, of course, you know, I've told you this before, the genius of your show is that it's really a family show. You're the paterfamilias. You're the... What's that? You're the father, and then you have these kids, and, you know, these darn kids are always making fun of you, but you love them, so you put up with it. But I... But, of course, I relate to you. Duh. So, like...

When they make fun of you or like really, I feel like cruel jokes. I feel like, you know, my thing, I'm always saying ageism, the last prejudice you can have is ageism. They have this terrible attitude about older people. Like if there's a problem, like, well, that'll be solved when they die. Yeah.

Great solution. Just wishing for people to die. Fuck you. Even if I agree with the cause you're talking about. But there's a way of... It's just a bad attitude. There's a total way of diffusing it because I tell them all the time, I want to be cremated. I go through the whole thing. No, but they talk... No, but what it does is it disarms them. Because what they're looking for is a reaction. And if you lean into it and if you say, yeah, and I'm older than dirt.

And I'm older than chips. But you're not. See, that's the other thing that bugs me. They talk about you like you've got one foot in the grave. Meanwhile, I feel like you have a much better life. First of all, you look great. No, none of us can look like we did when we were 35. But I would never guess you're the age you are. You're in better shape than they are. Okay, come on. You are. I always used to look at that and be like, what is this guy? This is not a competition. Because you...

No, but it's not a competition, but it's relevant to people who are always making jokes about your age, which don't ring true about you. That's the thing. I'm a comedian. I know when a joke rings true. So it's like, yes, is he technically this many years older? But what life is he leading? Is he leading a young life? Does he have a young energy? What about him is betraying this ancient age that he wears? Nothing. Nothing.

I get it. But we also, we collaborate a lot. We are together all the time. I understand. And I really appreciate, I really appreciate how they bring things to the table that I just don't know. And it helps shape what we do in a big, big, big way. I learn from them also. I do. Because I see. I believe you. It's a great way to see what that generation, which, look, I have lots of millennial friends who I do hear about it.

But yeah, I tell you, it's a great show because, again, you're the father and you have the kids. And it's that Mary Tyler Moore dynamic where they're not really family, but Mr. Grant was really the father. Mary was the daughter. Murray was the brother. I love that show. Right. God, I love that show. What's that show? I am.

No idea. And then you tell them, and they're like, oh, once again, he knows something I don't know about. What an asshole. Someone who would know something. Okay, so let me ask you this. I watched your 9-11 thing. Awesome. Oh, thank you. Of course. You don't have to thank me. No, honestly, I'm so close to it because it took six months. I love the way it was done, first of all, because it's not long. You don't have to watch. Everything these days is too long. Right. You can say it in an hour.

And you do. We did. Right. And the premise, I don't know how anybody wasn't all over this for the last 20 years. It's crazy. What is it called? 9-11, the fifth plane? The fifth plane. I mean, that says it all. There was a fifth plane. There's no doubt in my mind after watching this that that absolutely was the fifth plane. There's no law that says, no, we could only have four planes. No, there was probably, there could have been six. There could have been six. But there definitely was this one.

Because as you show, I don't want to give too much of it away, but, you know, there's four guys. And of course, these are politically correct terms. So we have to say, of course, not all Arabs or Muslims are terrorists. Yes, we never said differently, but it is just four guys.

Arabs sitting in first class. One of them is a man in a burqa. That's what the flight attendant said. Which also would have been a good title. The man in the burqa. That's what the flight attendant said. There were three flight attendants we interviewed. We interviewed the pilot.

And this was a plane, a United flight that was supposed to take off from JFK at nine in the morning. And it was going to Los Angeles. Same time as the other four. Same time. It would have aligned perfectly. And there were a lot of things that happened. But ultimately,

I think the reason this is so stunning that it never really came out is these flight attendants were all interviewed by the FBI immediately. The FBI was alarmed. They locked that plane up.

after everybody got evacuated. And all of a sudden, people on the ground saw two people running in the plane. The plane had been fully empty. And the authorities came and opened the door. And the hatch that leads from the cabin down to the bottom of the plane and the tarmac, it was open. Somebody opened this hatch. What the pilot thinks and what he told me, they found box cutters in the plane right next to his.

and it was one number up. Planted in first class. In first class, in the seat pockets. I mean, they did everything but leave a business card that said Muhammad Kablooey. Well, look, here's the thing. There was somebody...

on the ground that at least the pilot thinks that came up into that plane thinking the box cutters were put on that plane, which is what the intention was. And they were trying to look for weapons to get rid of them before anybody searched the plane. No, plainly that's, I mean, there's no other explanation. The FBI took, the FBI took the flight attendants to a lineup.

to see if they could identify these passengers. And it was never mentioned in the 9-11 Commission report, never. That was the most disturbing part of it to me. I mean, what other reason would there be box cutters planted in the pocket? The seat pocket. The seat pocket. Of course that's what it is. And, well, I have two questions. One, any idea where the plane, what the target was? Because my guess is the White House.

Well, because if I was planning the big attack with five planes, now you have to think of it in terms of five. Okay, the one that crashed in Pennsylvania, that was headed for the Capitol. So you got the Capitol, the Pentagon, the two towers. What else are you going to take out? Mount Rushmore? No. Well, some people think that... Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't think anybody really knows where the flight in Pennsylvania was headed. It could have been the Capitol, but it could have been the White House. I mean, what is...

As opposed to what? The Smithsonian? The Department of Fisheries and Hatcheries? No. You're going to take out the White House. Yeah. So...

This plane, by the way, it never took off. It got to the runway and they called it back because at that point it would have taken off. But there was a long line. It was the pilot said it was the only day. Usually it's one or two planes ahead of him. There were 10 planes and were not for that, the plane would have been in the air and God knows what would have happened. So do the same people who work on TMZ Vanderpump rules do the do the show like that? Isn't that something? Yeah.

All of them? Not everybody, no. I mean, we're doing a lot of documentaries now and we just have a great team. And it's a small team, but we're doing a lot of documentaries. And personally, I love doing these. I love, it's my passion.

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Okay. It's so natural, these plugs. I'll be at the Paramount Theater in Seattle April 1st. Oh, I love Seattle. And Sunday, April 2nd at the Arlene Schnitzer Hall in Portland. And Saturday, April 22nd, the theater at MGM National Harbor, Oxon Hill, Maryland.

Sunday, April 23rd at the Durham Performing Arts Center. I did a special there once. I love it. Durham, North Carolina. You have to see me do stand-up one time. You have to come. We have to go to Vegas together. I want to go to Hawaii. Stop doing it. Oh, no! It was the last year. Oh, you told me I could come to the next one and you quit so I wouldn't go. No, I...

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Stream Be My Guest with Ina Garten on Discovery Plus and check out Be My Guest with Ina Garten wherever you get your podcasts. And apropos of what we were saying before about where TikTok is, now TMZ moves on. You know, everything is always in flux in media. Right. And TMZ is, I could say that, absolutely morphing to a much more mainstream platform.

Where it wasn't, you know, now it's associated with gossip, but associated with things like this. Yeah. You know, because those two areas lap. We've seen that going back as far as Gary Hart with the Enquirer, that the gossip investigators are sometimes better than the mainstream media investigators, often. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, we've, I gotta say, I mean, at least the goal, whether we've accomplished it or not, but the goal for many years now has really been to not really just do a celebrity website. It's really more of a pop culture website. And we take on...

You know, like, you know, we mentioned Alec Baldwin, but there are other examples of, you know, the Jesse Smollett case. And there are like a lot of cases that may have celebrities, but the issues are really, really important. And I don't think there's this wall between important and pop culture. I think the two really merge a lot, a lot. Well, you certainly get more people paying attention.

to an issue if it has a celebrity attached to it. Well, you know that. I mean, you know, it's really funny. But you can't attach a celebrity to every issue that's important.

At some point, people are going to have to, if the country is going to last, you know, sort of get on the page that if you're a citizen, you have to have some sort of awareness of what the fuck is going on. I mean, whether or not Madonna is involved with it. But whose fault is it if they're not? Because I'll tell you, one of the things, the thing that bothers me so much is just that

Depending on what you read and watch now, your worldview is so skewed and fucked up that you cannot...

do anything but hate people who you disagree with because the way they present it on both sides is so like tribal that I think that's one of the biggest dangers in this country that, you know, people are getting skewed views of the world and they have such contempt for the other side. You talk about this a lot. I'm talking about it Friday night, right before you came here, I was working on what we're doing Friday night at the end of the show and at St. Patrick's day.

So, you know, it takes off on the idea that for 30 years, political hatred got so bad in Northern Ireland that it became violent hatred. And people had to live with bombings and they had to live with snipers. And I'm not saying that's exactly what's going to happen here, but they called it the Troubles. And...

Certainly the ingredients are exactly the same because of what you're just saying. When people get to this point where the hatred is this serious, where you have Marjorie Taylor Greene saying, we need a national divorce. In other words, we can't even talk to you. A heated conversation is so much healthier than no conversation at all.

you know, yelling and screaming at each other. At least you're talking. I mean, and obviously we're making some hay about the fact that, you know, she's comparing it to divorce, but it's, there's a serious point there that people in relationships get to that same place where, you know. Well, succession is divorce. It is divorce. Yeah. Right. And it's, she actually used the term irreconcilable differences. Yeah. And, you know,

I don't know. I am constantly trying to appeal to that American who's not like that. And I know there's lots of them out there, but it is discouraging when I see the ones who are so indoctrinated. And I see some of this among your crew that I don't think I could. I don't think logic cannot get to them.

And that's, of course, true of the other side, absolutely. Yeah. That you can't reach them because they believe in this religion of the woke or the religion of Trump. And you can't argue with religion.

So, I mean, I don't know. Are you hopeful? Not really. I'm not either. I'm not either. But it's so funny, the cognitive dissonance between how the world is to me, you know, which is not hopeful, and yet my own life, I mean, you said you liked your 20s the best. I like this the best. More in control, more comfortable with who I am, more successful. No, that's all true. I mean, my life... But isn't there, don't you, didn't you get a charge of...

out of the first time you did this and the first time. There's nothing like that. Yeah, that happened twice. When I got laid and when I smoked pot. I'm serious. Those are the two things. I know exactly what you're talking about. When you got your first car, you weren't... Well, let me add a third one. And the first time I got up on stage and did 20 minutes and got laughs all the way through.

I remember the exact date. It was June 20th, 1980. Like 20 minutes, and was I the greatest comic ever? No, but I was a real comic. I got up and did a 20-minute set, and people actually laughed at everything, as they were supposed to. And that was one. The first time I...

like was on stage in high school. That was like, I could not sleep that night. I did a show like the pop show, you know, the, the, whatever the talent show we had. And I came out of my shell senior year. See, now I'm starting, there's more than just getting laid and smoking pot. Okay. I'll give you two or three things, but smoking pot was one getting laid was one.

Yeah, the first time a girl liked me and the first date was one. Yeah, there was first times that were great, but they're few and far between over a whole... We're talking about 15 years from like 15 to 30. Let me ask you something. When did you get your first house? My first what? House. House. No, I didn't say... House. House. Tattoo? Remember when we were going to get...

this matching tattoos and someone i heard someone on your show she's sweet like blonde girl courtney i know the one is getting married or oh charlie charlie yeah right she was like did you hear they're getting matching tattoos she really believed right right right but my first house i bought uh in uh moved in in april of 1986 okay uh on orange grove it was small house

the smallest? Not as small as mine. Not as small as mine. I had a converted trailer that they put on a lot. Actually, not that far from there.

Oh, were you, I was more excited with that little house, that little converted trailer sitting on the porch saying this is all of those things. You're right. You're right about that. You're right. You know, that house. Yes. There's something about pissing on your own land. It's the best. And it's like, I was 29, I think when I bought it and my, I remember my rent

was like $450 back then, 1985. And then my mortgage went up to like $1,450. And I was shitting in my pants because like, whoa, I just added a grand a month that I have to come up with for rent. And I did. You know, I mean, it was like, okay,

And, yes, I remember going up on the roof myself to clean the gutters, like, every three months. Those first things that you experience as an adult are just magic. And, like, the way, yeah, love is. I mean, you know, you probably...

when it's new like that, it's, yeah. All right. Okay. You're a little more right than I was. You see? But again, those things are not like every day, where it's like, my life was not good every day. There were a lot of days I didn't like it.

But my life now, there's very rarely a day I don't like. I mean, I got up today and I went to the office. We go once a week now and I had my writer's meeting and I write it. How come? How could I have more fun than sitting around with those brilliant people who I love and kicking around the ideas that are fresh? And we're going to do this amazing show Friday. And, you know, and then I come home and I get to write a thing about it. And then I get to talk to you. It's like,

There's more sometimes good stuff crammed in one week now than there was in a year. You made me like blindly jealous just with, I went to the office, I go to the office once a week. Why, you go every day? Yeah. Well, of course. I mean, we're doing the show. Right, of course. And they're long hours. Oh, the office is the, it's connected. Yeah, it's all the office. So you're in the same places when you're off camera? Yeah, that's a working office. We just pull chairs up.

I mean, we just pull chairs up. Right. Yeah. Wow. So like every time I watch you now, I must say my image back in the day was that TMZ was meaner. Am I wrong?

Did you not get nicer? I was afraid of you at one point. Well, I think, yeah, look, I mean, I was actually talking to one of your producers about this. Yeah, I mean, I think we have changed. And, you know, I sometimes look back and think, oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that it's meaner as much as, you know, there were lines that

were, I guess, more acceptable. But when I look back, I think, my God, why didn't we corral ourselves more? Yeah, I just feel like you're fans now. You're fans of all these people. Generally, you like them. Yeah. Because I like them too. But we're also honest about it. I mean, what I love is there's not this like singular view of anything.

And I think that's really important. It's kind of what you were talking about earlier that, you know, you can tolerate disagreement. We disagree all the time about things. I love it. But we talk about it all the time. And I love that. I love that. I love that. That's what makes it real. And the fact that they don't edit when they make fun of you. It's great because then you do your Jack Benny take, basically.

Yeah, Harvey. What was Jesus like? I don't get it, Jack Benny. No, but you do. They would have no idea. They would think that's original. But you do your version of it. I mean, it's a take. It's Jim from The Office. I mean, that's why the camera goes there. That's what they're doing. It's the comedy gold.

But like of all these people who cover, who is your favorite celebrity or do you even have one? Cher. Cher. And not for the reason you think that I'm gay. What reason do I? That's right. I forgot. She's a very big icon. Yeah, but that's not why. You know, I have never. I love Cher. I've never talked about this, but I'm gonna. Yeah.

This is not a happy story, but it has a meaningful ending. Back in the 80s, life in the gay community was a nightmare. It was just a nightmare. Because? Because of AIDS. And...

I, you know, it's, I can't explain this. I've tried to explain this a little bit to the staff and it's just hard for people to understand this, but like half my friends died in their twenties and thirties, at least half. I was going to almost a funeral a week and, you know, you, you would spend weekends at the Sherman Oaks AIDS ward at the hospital there, which was just filled with people. And, and,

There was no cure. It was a death sentence then. And, um, yeah, so I had a partner, um, his name was Kevin and we were together for almost nine years and he, we didn't get tested for a long time because there was nothing you could do and you just didn't want to live with that hanging over your head. But when they came out with a drug that didn't cure anything, but at least it was something, um,

we both got tested and he was positive. And, um, a couple of years later, he got really sick. He developed full blown AIDS and it was so ghastly. Um, I, I just can't even, it was, there was just nothing to comfort him medically. It was horrible. And he was a

the best realtor that has ever worked in Los Angeles and everybody loved him and he was so successful and so good at it and honest about it. And he had a lot of celebrity clients. So, um, one night he was near death. Um, I was at home alone and there was a knock at the door and I opened the door up and it was Cher. And, and she said, I came to see Kevin.

How did she know? She was a client of his. But, you know, people talk and she, I guess she knew he was sick. Right. And she said, can I see him? And I said, of course. And I said, you know, I could come upstairs with you because it's kind of rough. And she said, no. She said, I want to go alone. And so she walked up the stairs and she closed the door.

And I could hear her talking to him. He was in a coma at that point. And, but I think he could process and understand. And I thought, okay, she'd, she'd be there for like five or 10 minutes. She was there for 45 minutes and she was just talking to him. And she came downstairs afterward and she said, I'm really sorry. And she left. And the reason I'm

that I'm telling you this and why I'm so taken by her. She never talked about it. She never had a publicist call and said, I visited somebody with AIDS. She never talked about it. I've never really publicly talked about this. And I'm glad you are. And people should know that about her. Absolutely. And I am, I think so much of her and it was so genuine. And, and

And, you know, I went upstairs after and I could just tell it meant something. I mean, he couldn't talk, but I could see this kind of, it was peaceful.

And he died a couple of days later. But I will never forget that from her. I will never forget that. So the reason you like her really is kind of because it's kind of gay. It's kind of gay, but... No, just to break the... That's what they call a treacle cutter on a sitcom, you know? Okay, you got me. No, no. But you know, on sitcoms, the eight-year-old who comes in and says, boner! Commercial. But...

But no, let me go back because I have... And I just think there's so many celebrities now who will use publicists and whatnot to show good deeds. And it's great that they have good deeds. Hers was just private. She just wanted to do it. So, well, first of all, I always thought she was great. Fan of her music, fan of her acting, and just fan of her as a person. You could tell she was a ballsy, real chick. I mean, like I would...

I'm not going to get to in this lifetime, be friends with her, but I bet you we would have been friends if we had been in the same. And did you ever become friends with her after that? No, I had actually, you know, I mean, it was just out of the blue and our paths only crossed once. Really? When Kevin was showing her house to me.

religious sect that was looking at the house to buy it. And I'm just thinking, where are these guys getting the money? Now I understand. But she was introducing herself to all of the fathers or whatever they were called from the sect that were looking at this $20 million house or whatever it was. And she came down to me and I said, I'm Father Levin. It's nice to meet you. And

And she hit me. But that was pretty much the only interaction. Well, you know, she got into trouble about two years ago, maybe. You remember this? She tweeted something. I think it was about the George Floyd murder. I think she... But it was some instance like that. I'm pretty sure that was... And she said...

She was just, you know, so typical of our cancel culture, or what's called the apology culture, making people apologize when they're only trying to say something good. And you get it slightly wrong or wrong in some person's eyes. And she said something like, I wish I could have been there because I think I could have helped. Oh, I remember that. I'm not saying that's word for word. I remember this. But it's very close to that. That was certainly the sentiment. Yeah. And just...

For people who don't understand what it's like to be a celebrity, and I'm saying that not as one myself, because there are levels of it that are so in the stratosphere beyond where I am, and I'm fine with that. I don't want to be in that stratosphere. But the power that celebrity has in our culture, I'm not so sure a celebrity in that situation couldn't have changed something.

People are just moved by celebrity. I don't know if she could have got that sick cop to stop doing what he was doing, but it's not completely unthinkable. But let's say it is.

okay, she made a point. You may not like it. She didn't come from a mean place. In good faith. Yeah. In a great place. Let it go. When I rail about woke, that's the kind of shit that I'm talking about that annoys so many people. I know it's not just me. I just hear it all the time. Like, Bill, please. And this is from liberals.

I hear it too. Everybody hates that shit. It's just mean girls high school bullshit. But you know the problem? The problem is corporate. The problem is big companies. That if this were just a couple thousand people on Twitter going after everybody sitting at a computer...

I don't know that it would matter that much, but the fact is it has caught the attention of big companies that will immediately fire people that will put you in a corner because they're so scared of people on both extremes. So the extremes are running this country now.

not because the public wants it, but all of the infrastructure and all the people that hire and fire and will rent you an apartment or do whatever, they listen to this and they're scared of it and they react to it. And I think that's why things have gotten out of control. I don't think it's the public, because I agree with you, I don't think the public...

believes this shit. I think that what's going on is that these companies are so skittish that they're gonna get canceled that they'll just cut anybody off if they misstep at all. I really do. - All right, I have to go back to one thing about your story. - About what? - Well, I mean, about AIDS.

I mean, first of all, I'm sure you saw the thing I did last week on Sashene Littlefeather. I'm sure your crew does not know who that is. They have no idea. They don't know Marlon Brando, to your point. I quite put that in. That was hysterical. That was hysterical.

But like, okay, we won't go back to that. But tell them how big a moment that was. Because that was a big moment. Oh, it was a huge moment. It was just cultural. It was, okay. Well, and you say, you know, how has TMZ changed? I mean, like you said, they were doing tomahawk chops. And the liberals. Right. Yes, this was liberal Hollywood. By the way, I told Quentin Tarantino, he's not going to do it, of course, but I told him,

Quentin, you love to remake things, remake real history. Why don't you remake that? Because what I left out of that story, by the way, that the obituary in the New York Times said was not only did they boo her, jeer her, threaten to arrest her if she went over time, did the tomahawk chop, John Wayne having to be restrained from rushing this day. Well, that I believe. Listen to this. She takes the award. This is in the obituary.

brings it to Brando's house after the ceremony. On the doorstep, she is shot at. I did not know. Really? That's what they said. Holy smokes. So that's why I said to Quentin, you should remake this incident.

except you love women characters who go on a tear and kill, have her, shoot at her, and then she kills, like all those Hollywood liberals who are booing her. Kill Jill? Jack Levin! There she is with Roger Moore! I love that. I love that. But anyway, but the point I was getting to that, in that thing, was that everyone's late on everything. And I meant, the first one I mentioned was Reagan.

Right. He said Reagan was late on AIDS. Obama was late on gay marriage. JFK was late on civil rights. Lincoln said ugly things about black people before he gave his life to emancipate them. Everybody's late. But that one, the Reagan one, I purposely put that first because it was such an unnecessary one. What do you mean? That he didn't do anything about it until Rock Hudson got it? Yeah. Partly because it was just like...

well, gay people and they shouldn't be poking in the wrong hole. Yeah, but Bill, I got to tell you, this was not...

I remember, I mean, people were getting fired from jobs. They were getting thrown out of apartments. Their families were disowning them. There was, that's one of the reasons I love Cher so much for what she did. Right. Because she didn't buy into that fear. Right. And it was horrible. And so I, you know, when I hear that about Reagan and everything else that, you know, it had to be Rock Hudson before he did anything. Right.

I mean, there were a lot of people who were liberal people. And part of it is, honestly, part of it is they were just scared. But there was a lot of meanness that connected to this. I remember having Ron Reagan Jr. on Politically Incorrect in the 90s. Yeah. Right under that sign there. And Harvey Fierstein was on with him. And he said at one point, fuck you and fuck your father. Yeah.

And what did he say? I don't remember. We'll be right back. I don't know. I don't remember. The reason I say that is I don't think Ron Reagan was at all aligned with him on this. I'm not sure. Ron Reagan Jr. Ron Reagan. He's a cool guy. Yeah. My point was that the venom for Ronald Reagan, the president, was so great that Harvey could not

help himself from saying, "Fuck you and fuck your father." - It's pretty funny. I mean, it's pretty funny. - But okay, so here's my serious question. I hope it's not too personal, but how did you avoid this bullet? - I don't know. And I think about it actually a lot now. - Maybe it's in that big cup.

I don't know. It's so random. You know, it's so funny you say that. It was so traumatic that, I mean, it really has affected me in every way in life. I mean, Kevin was 34, and my friends were in their 20s and 30s, and I don't know. I don't know how I avoided it, but...

you know what i've been thinking about it so much over the last couple of years and you know one of the things it's funny you talk about getting older i was just thinking

Just the things that could happen to you from conception to death. I mean, from birth defects to illness to accidents to all these things. If you can make it as far as we've made it, it is like winning the lottery. It is like winning the lottery. And when I see all the people I know who died, and it's like, why me? I mean, I really mean it. It's like I...

It's hard to understand. I don't have an answer to that. But it works the other way, too. I remember talking to Matthew Perry last year when he was out doing his book and he did... I saw the show. Yeah. And, I mean, it is harrowing what... I mean, he did it to himself. He'll be the first to admit. But the drugs, the operations...

how close he was to death. - Yeah. - I mean, you know. - And then once he was, I read the book too, and when he was close to death, he did it again. He went back to it. - Yeah. And I remember saying to him, you know, it is so easy to die. It's also kind of hard, which you prove. It is also kind of hard. And I wish you would think more of it in those terms. Yes, it is easy to die. We are so brittle, the flesh.

Um, but we're also very kind of resistant, resistant and hardy. I mean, you think about, but I didn't see a lot of resistant people. No, I mean, it was just a time, something like that. Yes. Yeah. And it's like, you say that, but it's not hard to die. And you know, when you, when you experience all these people that, you know, who are, you know, in the prime of their life, um,

And, you know, because they had sex with somebody, it's a death sentence. And it's just incomprehensible. It is. I've never. I've just. Maybe it's my convoluted way of like getting in the idea that we've talked about before when you threatened to quit. And I'm like, first of all, you need to. There's no reason to quit. There is no diminution of your skills. So why would you even think about that?

You know, look at yourself as like, you know, this is even though we're older. What do you mean threatened to quit? What are you talking about? You've said that before. Like, maybe I should just. No, I said a lot. Well, a lot. Retire. Several years ago. Yeah.

Yeah. There was... When we moved over to a new company, I have more energy now than I've had in... Right. So instead of obsessing on the number, whatever you are, 71 or something... I don't obsess on that. Okay. And I'm also not afraid of dying. I don't think about it. I'm fine with it. It's going to happen. It's a... That's very brave. Are you? Of dying? Yeah. Yeah.

Yes, of course. Dying. Yeah, but the reason I'm not is, I mean, to have lived as long as I've lived with all the people that never had that life. It's like, yeah, I'm not going to live forever. And it's kind of gravy now, you know? I really mean that. I'm not lying to you. I totally believe you. I'm just trying to convince you of something else. First of all,

The natural lifespan of the human being is more like 100. You do realize that. How do we know this? Because there are places in the world called blue zones where people do live. Almost everybody lives to around 100. It's just normal. But they don't know why. Yes, they do. Well, no, they have theories about it. Exactly. But the point is that mostly it's, look, it's not rocket science. Mostly it's like the diet.

you know, the lack of toxins, the lack of pollutants. There are other factors. One is a religious community, Yorba Linda in California. It's like, why? But, you know, look, that suggests to me very strongly that

that there is a mental element to keeping your health. I've always believed in a strong connection between the mind, the mind-body connection. I so agree with you. I think it's something Western medicine completely overlooks still. I absolutely agree with you. If they can't read it on a chart, it doesn't exist, and that is not how health is. So why do these strongly religious people, well, religion does give people, if you really believe it, if you can really throw yourself into it,

It gives you peace of mind. I've heard people say to me all my life, you know, I put my head on the pillow at night. I know if I die in my sleep, I'll go to a better place. And I always say that, why don't you? Wait a minute, are we now, are you now becoming religious, Bill? No, no, no. I'm saying this, no, but I'm saying having that peace of mind could be a very big key to health.

how stressed you are, how when you put that head on the pillow, sleep itself is so important to longevity and to being healthy. I'm just saying there are factors. That is one that should be considered since it's one of the five blue zones. But mostly it's like, another one is they all seem to eat a lot of beans.

I'm not joking. So, you know, farting. Just farting. Well, it could be. I want to ask you something because I love your take on religion. I really do. Oh, good. And, you know, you talk about Christianity as a cult. Yes. But yet, what you just said is really interesting. If you really believe that the peace of mind that comes along with religion lets you live longer, why don't you embrace it? Because I can't fool myself. I'm not an idiot. No.

I'm not some idiot who could just go, hey. Oh, I'm glad you're having a good time. Oh, my God. That's the best.

But it's true. You know, I always try to explain. You're too smart for your own good. I always try to explain. Yes, I always try to explain to people the difference between religion and not religion. And they say, well, how do you explain? I say, of course, we agree that there are things in this universe that we have no way of knowing. I don't know how it all began, of course. But my answer to that is not to make up stories that I tell myself.

That's your answer to that. If it works for you, congratulations, you do you. I'm saying it could be a key to longevity of sorts.

You know, and I wonder if the people in the other five places are maybe they're not crazy religious like the Yorba Linda people. I think it's Yorba Linda, but they are possibly, you know, strong Catholics or just something where you, you know, you have that peace of mind that, you know, what's going to happen when it all ends. Right.

I mean, that's one reason why you say to me, are you afraid of dying? Of course, because I don't know what's going to happen. And I think it's nothing, but it could be anything. I've never been adamant about...

about what a certain knows. I don't know what happens when you die. I just, as Richard Dawkins says, I'm an atheist. You don't believe in all the other gods like Zeus and Thor. I just take it one more and don't believe in the last one we agreed to believe in. But you're peaking. The point I was making is that you should think of yourself as peaking. Don't listen to those kids who say you're old. But you think this is affecting me.

You're the one who raised retirement. - No, I raised retirement

three years ago with you. Not that long ago. Yeah, no, it was. It hasn't been the last couple of years. Oh, good. I'll tell you, I'm so energized now with this. Oh, good. Because we're getting, I really mean it, we're getting resources. Yes. I've got this passion for these documentaries. And this is what is going to keep you alive. No, that's the mind. Right. And also having a purpose to get up.

And like new things, new experiences, new worlds to conquer. I'm with you. No, I'm totally with you. You're right. I mean, I didn't know you were going to expose me that way. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. No, it's fine. It's absolutely true. I was getting really frustrated, you know, over some circumstances corporately. But it's changed. Right.

I'm more excited about what we're doing than I've been in 17 years here. I'm really, really charged about this. I don't know how we didn't become friends before we did. I know, and I'm going to probably die soon, and then all of a sudden it's like, God, I could have been friends with him for like 20 years. I love the way you taunted me with that one. You thought you were going to get me to go right back into my spiel.

No, no, no. I'm not that. I may look dumb, but yeah, I mean, it's funny. Our paths never really did cross. Well, they did once. They did once. Oh. You don't even know it. Not good? No. It was, I don't know if you remember.

You want to talk about how things have changed. I want to test your memory and see if you remember this. The night at the Ramrod, I was very drunk. No, it wasn't. I thought I was going in. I honestly thought I was going into the IHOP.

And then things just got out of control. I'll tell you what it was. Do you know a guy named Ben? No, stop it. I owe him like 20 bucks. Anyway, go ahead. There was a t-shirt I saw. I was in like Croatia and there was a t-shirt that said, I'm not gay, but 50 bucks is 50 bucks. Yeah.

That's great. So I don't know if you remember this. This must have been in the mid-90s maybe. There was some kind of a thing downtown and it was a big event and I think it was honoring lawyers or something. Well, all I can tell you is in the 90s, I would go do anything. You were there with a woman and I remember somebody said, oh my God, Bill Maher's over there. And I looked and I thought, wow, Bill Maher's there. And

I don't know if you remember this, but this, I will tell you this because this is insane. Do you remember a judge? Because you were there. There was a judge who got up and spoke and the judge decided he wanted to be a comic and he told a joke about a guy who was dating this girl and this woman or whatever and they were in bed and he said something to her or did something and she said, God,

God, you remind me of a pedophile. And he said, that's an awfully big word for a 13-year-old. You were there. And I remember people gassed. Really? But the judge, nothing ever happened. I love that. Nothing ever happened. Great joke. You were there.

I don't remember. But as I say, in the 90s, I was that guy who, the old line, he'd go to the opening of an envelope. It was just like it was that first, again, your theory, you were right, your first flush of getting invited to things was pretty great. Yeah. Like, oh, you're now in the celebrity club and you get to, what, sit on the sidewalk downtown and listen to a judge tell a bad joke. But it was some event, right? It was some event. It was some big event. It was.

a big event. I remember thinking, God, Bill Maher. Yeah. Wow. You know, Bill Maher, when he was in high school, didn't get invited to the party. So like our college was a total wipeout socially. And that's the secret to life. That, you know, that charge you get, you can't duplicate with a bigger house. No. Or another car. No. So what you've got to do is you've got to find new things.

And that to me is the secret is that, you know, it's like for me, these documentaries, I have such a passion for this and we're creating a scripted show and a game show and everything. And I love doing these new things. And you do this. This is what we're doing. What you're doing right now is only a year old and it's a new thing and it's a great thing. And that's what keeps you young. Yes.

No, you're... Wait, you're reading my lines. Okay, I'm sorry. I mean, if we're coming to an end, we're showing that we agree on things. We agree on... I mean, the times when you and I, it's just... We've only had one big argument. It's a pussy hairs difference. What? No, we've had one big argument. You did? Yeah. On what? The Beatles. The Beatles. But it's hysterical that you... Well, yeah. I mean...

Yeah, well, it's I don't know how you look at that documentary and don't see the love between Lennon and McCartney No, I saw the love there But I don't know how you read the book that I told you to read here there and everywhere and not Understand that there was a bird's-eye view this guy had that was very different But he's also a guy who had an axe to grind why because well I asked I asked Martin Lewis the ultimate Beatle expert about that so

So I can't share everything, but let's just say that there is, I mean, look, he's selling a book. People want to say things that will make other people buy the book.

let's just leave it at that. I mean, I don't take the guy's word as gospel. I didn't take it as memory from all those years ago. If it's true, then somehow they like went through a phase where they didn't love each other so much. And then by the time we actually saw it, because I'm going to believe my lion eyes more than what I read in a book, my lion eyes. So eight hours or what was it? 10? I don't know. It was like 40 hours.

They shot it for 40, but we saw it. Okay. I get it. Of John Lennon and Paul McCartney, who it was so obviously that band always was them. It was Lennon and McCartney. I mean, there was that thing that Ringo and George, second class Beatles, I didn't know how true that was. It is kind of true. When George Harrison threatened to quit...

Paul and John had lunch. We didn't see that thing. They just had the audio. But they don't go, oh, how can we get our mate back in the band? They were immediately throwing him under the bus and talking about getting Eric Clapton in there. There's a reason why George quit.

And Ringo quit at one point. It's, they're like, they're singing to each other. They're laughing with each other. John completely ignores Yoko. It's like she's not even there. He's so much more. They brought a bed into the studio. Right, because. So she could just be there. But he ignores her. But he and Paul McCartney, you can see it in their eyes. They have this incredible connection. I would think that you would want to embrace that. I want to embrace that.

Let's watch it together. Really? I haven't seen it. I saw it once. I want to see it again. I would watch it again. Let's make a date to watch that in a year or something. I loved that documentary. I don't think in one night we can. But we could do it like every one night, pick a night in a month.

I would totally do that. Like every Friday night, we'll watch two hours. You're not suggesting I don't like the Beatles, are you? No, no. I love the Beatles. No kidding. Yes, that's the rock on which we found our church. All right. I know this is past your bedtime. It is. It is.

I so appreciate it. Thank you. I'll do your Christmas show if you still want me to. Oh, you're booked. Okay. You're booked. And the kids won't be mean to me. Oh, I can't wait. Really? I can't wait. Are they going to attack me? Oh, no.