Brad Paisley | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Like the last thing I saw you on was like the Paul Simon tribute. Yeah. What a player you are. Thanks for saying that. What song did you sing him to? I did a couple. I did one with Bonnie. But what was the song? Because I know every song. I did Kodachrome. Kodachrome. Which is a blast. Which is like open the show, right? Yeah. And then you did another one? A slow one? Yeah, I played guitar for Bonnie and sang harmony on Bonnie Raitt did Something So Right.

Which is, it's a jazz song. That's just... You know who does an amazing cover of that is Barbra Streisand. Oh, I bet. Did you know that? No, I've never heard that. It's on the Way We Were album. Oh, wow. I should look that up. You absolutely have to. Because the thing about Paul, it's so funny, all of us backstage, we were all shit in a brick because...

Like, here's Kodachrome that all of us know. We know it by heart, right? Except until you try to play it, and there's a three-bar phrase, and then it's a five-bar phrase the second time before it goes into the chorus. And it's so intricate and crazy the way he would write. I think he would, like, try to screw with bands that wanted to cover his material and make it too hard for anybody to play. It's funny you say that, because I remember reading, and I'm a huge Paul Simon fan. Me too.

Sometimes people can be so good and so far advanced in what they're doing that they can get a little ahead of the parade where the regular people are. Oh, yeah.

He's living in another planet. I mean, Paul is such a genius. You can't remember where the parade is. Well, but what's crazy is he's made a career of doing that exact thing and everyone loves it and wants more. And I don't think anybody else has gotten away with being that brilliant for that long. I couldn't agree more. I mean, honestly, and I love some of the album, like...

The two in the early 80s were flops and they're my favorites. One Trick Pony. One Trick Pony is great. Which is another very jazzy, because it's about a band on the road. Yeah. And all the songs, it almost reminds me of Jackson Browne's Running on Empty album. Yes. Which they recorded in hotel rooms and on the bus. And it sounds, it was 1977, it still sounds amazing.

And that was the feel of One Trick Pony, because he was a singer in a band. Yeah. You know, and he had a hit. Totally. But it wasn't, but now his career wasn't going, it never really took off.

I love it when he does the sort of premise, almost what I'd call, it's like a soundtrack. It's like he creates characters in a fictional movie around the album. He just sent me his new record last week, which is just about to come out. So we're on here to plug Paul now, which is great. Let's do it. But it's called Seven Psalms. And he's so, like you say, ahead of the parade. It's one file. It is 33 minutes, no breaks. You can only hear the whole thing.

Yeah, see, that doesn't work for me. I loved it. Yeah, but you're a musician. The way he is, I talked to him about it this week. I said, so how did you do this? And I said, what about the presentation on this and how's that going to work for people? He said, I don't care. It's how it's supposed to be presented. What I was going to say is I remember reading an interview with him maybe like this century, like 10 years ago or something, and he was talking something about

like there were tonal deep gradations that we hadn't been aware of. And I remember like, first of all, I don't give a fuck. Like I'm just the, I'm the consumer here.

You know, and for so long I felt, and look, there's stuff he's put out in this century that I do still like, but it's not, I feel like the commercial, he hit that sweet spot between it's commercially just fantastic, but also original. Yeah, yeah. And,

For sure. It's nothing is formulaic. I mean some of these songs the other album that was did not do well I don't think in the early 80s was hearts and bones, right? Which is an amazing record. It's amazing title song. Oh, I mean remember the late great Johnny Ace Do you remember that song he wrote John Lennon died? That's right. Oh, I know and but he's like it's so funny when you talk to him too about this stuff and

It's so interesting because what you're doing is you're discussing, a friend of mine and I were talking about it the other day, you're discussing the theory of relativity with Einstein. And, but meanwhile, Einstein wants to know what you think. It's so interesting because it's like, you're so far advanced ahead of us, it doesn't matter what we think. It's wild. Well, I think you're being a little modest. I mean, what is that, a regular cigar? Cigar. You smoke cigars? I do.

I never understood the point, Brad. I mean, you don't inhale it, right? No, you don't. If you're inhaling it, you're doing it way... Your life is going to... You're going to regret it. You have bigger problems? Yeah, no. Okay, so you don't inhale it. So you're not getting that thing that we feel in our throats that we like for some reason. And it stinks. And it doesn't get you high. Tell me where the good part of this is. Uh...

Now you're really rethink the whole thing. I Don't know why I'm doing it. Yeah Well, I don't know you look good doing it you definitely look good I think it's how old do you you look like you're late 30s and I bet you you're older because I know you had records out like I shouldn't even out myself 25 years ago 50 now 50 you're 50 Wow tell my wife I don't look 50 she says I do I

She's wrong. Well, see, this is what I don't get about marriage. Like, why? You think I could say that to her? No. In reverse, I definitely couldn't. Like, married people, they get to this place where they say mean things to each other, and it's just sort of accepted. I don't get it. It's basically every married couple becomes Don Rickles. Yeah.

Really? And they each take their turns. Yeah, for sure. If it works. How long have you been married? 20 years. 20 years? It was 20 years in March. That's, I mean... To an actress. Right. It's impossible. We basically, we're way past the deadline on it. No, I think you've passed the difficult part. Oh, yeah. What is the difficult part? The difficult part is...

It's sort of like you start the journey, and then I think you either find out you're compatible or you've made a huge mistake. And in my case, we found out we were completely compatible, especially as time went on. And you either evolve together or it doesn't work, I think. And in our case, yeah, I mean, we were both older. We were in our 30s before we got married, so...

That or you know, I was 30 when I got it so hysterical you consider that older older than Glendale West Virginia where I'm from Yes, all of my high school friends were married and divorced by the time I was married having never gotten married I am way behind the And it works for you look at this cave. I don't even want to say man cave. It's a cave right? It's the best actually. Thank you it's a it's actually a

It really is a nightclub. It doesn't seem it when the music's not on, but I'd love to get you her sometime when we can play. Let's do that. That'd be great. Oh, please. I would love that. What about when you're, like if you're at a party and your song comes on, is it embarrassing? Is it like... I don't want to hear that shit. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I never watch myself either.

To me it's like also I mean any music that's on when we're eating dinner or anything my mind is going there It'd be like if they put on a comedy record and you're trying to eat exactly even if it's not you even if it's somebody you just actually if it's not me right, but this yeah, but me too and

Yeah, no, I agree. It's what they call a busman's holiday. I guess that's back when people used to take a bus to take a holiday. So the busman, it was not really a good gig for him to go. Right, of course. But no, I couldn't agree more. But I must say, like, a lot of you really good country guys

I like the more the years go on, I like better because I feel like, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I feel like you start out a little too country for me, you know, for my New Jersey ears. There's just a kind of a twangy part of it. Lyrics in country songs are the cleverest. They can be. And rap.

It's interesting they have that in common. Rap and country, both a real premium on lyrics that I think is very often, not always of course, but very often absent in pop. You can put out a pop record with really horrible lyrics. The Beatles did it many times. Well, and it's, yeah, it's funny. They did and then we all want to do that. But it's like they... Well, the music was so good no one cared. No, it didn't matter. And rap and country are kissing cousins. Yeah.

In country, we're really doing it. No, I've heard rappers say that to me. They say, like, there's a lot of things in common. Like, you know, the tour bus is full of your cousins. Right, that's true. That's true. Right? Yeah. You know? Yeah. And it's a very kind of a family thing. Yeah. You know, I mean... And in country, those are your groupies. Your cousins? Yeah. No, I'm kidding. Oh, I...

It's an incest joke. There'll be a few of those tonight. You'll hear a few. Yeah. Well, you're from West Virginia, right? Yes. Okay. That's the state that when comedians go to an incest joke. Right. That's, you know, that's the state they'd... What's funny about us from that state is we're like... People would think we'd be offended, but we find it funny. I'm sure you do. We totally do.

Yeah, and the thing I was saying about like the music, it's not, again, the lyrics are always clever. I mean, you have some very clever, you know, like, what's that one? Time well wasted. Isn't that a record? Isn't that a, okay. That's such a clever saying. I mean, I wish I thought of that, time well wasted. It's perfect. There's three words. It says everything. The best country songs fit on a T-shirt.

You know what I'm saying? Like the hook of the song. In some ways. Not always, but that sort of idea of it's like punchline payoff. And it's definitely kin to stand-up. A little bit. It really is. Punchy, I mean, I think in every art form, punchy is better. I think the problem more artists have than any other problem is

they do not know how to be their own editor. They do not know how to kill their children. You have to kill your children. I'm sure when you make a record,

And there's 12 cuts on it. I'm sure you made more right for sure In fact, I'm through some away. I'm neck-deep right now and that like trying to figure out what's on this next album I think I have it figured out but it's still a matter of does it fit the vision and you really want to make sure with what you're doing that like I never like to do albums that are just like these are the songs that I wrote during this time period and I

some of them don't fit the theme. Like, I feel like it's always got to have a little bit of a through line. Because a great song, well, you can wait. You could wait an album or two if it doesn't fit stylistically where you're headed. And I think, but that's, I'm a dinosaur because I still care about that. Right now, it's song at a time. You are, but I'm a dinosaur too. I like the album format, you know? Me too. And like, there's probably, you know, I would say maybe a hundred songs

in my entire collection, and I'm a meticulous curator of...

This goes back, I mean, I started listening in the late 60s. My early favorites are from when I was 12 years old in 1968. So that's when I first was into music. But that's some amazing music from 68, 69, 70. Okay. And then the 70s, 80s, 90s, I feel like the DJ in my car. Right. The greatest hits of today. But of all the decades...

There's maybe a hundred albums where I would say the album is good all the way through. Yeah. As opposed to like, oh, and that's why I love the old iPod because I like to like take just the songs I like. Right. Like I will, I still like download albums because I feel like people should get paid. I don't want to...

You know, I agree. Oh, I'm sure you do. Well, and even not not in my standpoint, it's like it's still about it really is about these people that worked on them. And also just the idea of the art existed in that way. And it's just it does feel like a butcher cutting these things up from time to time. But, you know, the old country stuff to me, when you're talking about that old stuff, that's what I was raised on. I was raised on.

George core and I can go Haggard Buck Owens all that and right and there's I don't know what instrument it is

But there's some instrument that makes me just think of that fucking kid from Deliverance. Well, there's banjo. He was playing the banjo. Banjo, fiddle, there's something else, and it's just kind of whiny. I know which one you're talking about, and my steel guitar player is going to crack up because it's steel guitar. And all I can see is that fucking kid sitting on the porch, carving his name in his feet. Yes.

Huh well in the sense of the steel guitar it's funny every time we and we make these jokes anytime in soundcheck I'll literally do this. I'll say what is that? And they'll be like I'm like they're like what what boss what it's like that dead cat squeal yes I'm kidding. I'm always just and you make them call you boss. Oh, yeah You should you're a boss

That's so funny. But like when, what I was thinking was that like, and then as time goes on, I feel like country stars very often, um,

move closer to my area, like the guitars are more electric. We lose the twang. It still has the best of country. And you have songs like that. I mean, the one you did with LL Cool J, which is really quite a...

I mean, quite ahead of its time too. Well, God. A little bit, because when you think about. Yeah, when you go back to that. Maybe behind. I don't know if they'd even do it today. They wouldn't do it. No, I mean. Too sensitive about. It was a third rail and it, that.

That was an album, and this is a great case for an album where I wanted the album to be a collection of things that are not expected, where you're out on that limb. And that was one. And what's ironic about that song was it was an album cut and got so much attention. I had a number one song in country music that week that had nothing to do with that.

But that was the ticker on CNN. I remember seeing it, and LL and I were doing interviews. Well, yeah, if you put out a song called Accidental Racist with a giant African-American music star. Yes, one of the pioneers, obviously, of rap. And what was interesting about how that came about, too, was essentially he and I, I had this idea to play characters in the song, to be...

to be, I wanted to be the southerner wearing the Skinner shirt saying, but that was before like Dylann Roof shot people in a church. And it was before there was the debate about all of the Confederate monuments and all of these things. We were ahead

This thing that was about to happen and had no idea But in the sense in that sense what I tried to do on that was go on the journey and let people say to me Here is the issue we're having especially in LL's camp where you know The african-american community wanted to talk about why they did not like it that we were talking about this and what we said or whatever it was and that was such a great

It was a crazy time and it was a hard thing to be misunderstood, but at the same time, we set out to learn. We set out to do that with that song and in the end, I guess that's what art does. But it was crazy. - Exactly. - Crazy for me, as you can imagine. - And it's also what democracy does. - I would think. - And it's also what has to happen in multi-racial societies. I feel like wokeness in many ways set us back

There's an interesting thing about the woke culture thing that a friend of mine who's a psychologist told me that this is a this is an interesting comparison Because I understand the the need for the progress. I've always loved on your show when you talk about Celebrating the progress we don't take the time to do that to celebrate it But in the wokeness sense, there's things about when what goes off the rails. It's when they lean towards being a cult themselves and

And that is where they, it's got, you got to repent, you got to do this. And a religion. Yeah, there's sort of. John McWhorter, African American, I love him. He's a genius. He's on my show as much as I can get him. He's a professor, but he wrote a whole book about that. The religion of anti-racism. Right. You know, he talked, there's an original sin, you know, you're born with whiteness and, you know, I

I mean, it's just, we went to such a ridiculous place with this. We were, I felt like, look, we're always in a process of healing, but like Obama was a truly great moment. Did it solve everything? Of course not. But could we just, you know, if we just like stayed with what he was saying. He became a star in 2004 at the Democratic Convention when he made the big speech. No, it's somewhat...

Fancy full but it's hopefully, you know, he said we are not black Americans and the United and white Americans We are not Latino with the states and there's not red states and blue states. We are the United States and like yes He was like here. I am half black half white. I kind of am representing where this country is going. We have to live together There's no reason to hate each other. There's reason to hate each other

what people in the past did and some people in the present, yes, but not all. And now I feel like it's just, there's this people walking on eggshells and for races, which of course are continually intermarrying more, I mean, it's happening whether, there are lots of segregated dorms on colleges and you can try, but it's happening. People are still coming together as they should.

And I felt like we were at a better place in the sense that we used to be able to talk about it more, like your song, joke about it more. People become asshole buddies when they joke with each other.

Now I feel like we're at this place where, oh no, that's funny and I think he'd laugh, but I better not. Right, and I think... Because if it goes wrong... I definitely think that's the path forward for all of us is finding the humor and the forgiveness. And that's got to happen. I mean, as I look at...

I've talked about, I said this to some friends of mine about when it comes to trans rights and people trying to become more accepted, they're missing the modern family moment. They're missing that thing where, because I came from West Virginia. I did not know a single person who was out of the closet in West Virginia.

But before I moved to Tennessee not one and I don't think I did living in New Jersey either and of course I'm a little older than you but I

You know, I mean, people keep to their tribes, especially back in that day. I mean, to this day, I really don't know a trans person. And that's not because I do. I'm not trying to avoid them. I just feel like we obviously don't travel in the same circles. But I'd be perfectly open to being friends with anybody. I've got a few. And the thing about that is that

When I think back to when I moved to town in Tennessee and started this journey of being a music artist here comes Ellen doing what she did for for gay rights and and people becoming like oh wow I you know, this is this is she's funny and I really like her and the next thing, you know Here's Will and Grace but then Modern Family I had the most conservative friends of mine watch Modern Family and

And their favorite two characters were Mitch and Cam, you know, the Eric Stone Street. And it was the type of thing where they would tune in every week to see that couple. And that moment, the next thing you know, we all woke up one day and...

It was everybody seemed for that and I it's no coincidence that art had taken us there as a society TV specifically TV and I feel like when TV shows people something Yeah, it normalizes it for good and bad it normalized Donald Trump. Yeah, but it also Normalized you're right game will and grace, you know, it's like oh, I

It's and this is interesting but you know your friends would relate most to the to the gay characters Which tells me your friends are probably gay? I'll let them know It's like that it's like they they thought oh man I understand the things this couple is going through you know and of course because yeah, and that's the you know the overarching point of this whole discussion we're having is that you know I

It's not impossible to get to the place right even with our horrible Sorry racial history and our sorry history to women and to every fucking person. I get it except the white men It's not impossible to get to a place now where we Recognize we actually have more in common

For sure. There was a time when we didn't, where white people and black people had so little in common because of course the oppression, the horrible oppression that was visited upon them. So you couldn't even, in the South, you couldn't look a white person in the eye walking down the street. Obviously you don't have anything in common with that person.

Now we're all in line together at Starbucks and we're doing this and we're doing that. You know, there are still problems. Yes, of course. Nothing will ever be perfected. But I keep saying, can we just live in the year we're living in?

Can we not go by these zombie lies, you know, which are lies that, something that's been debunked. It comes back to celebrating how far we've come. But you're still pretending it's alive. Yeah, right. And let's not pretend that we're in 1958 or 78. Let's just live in the year we're living in, acknowledge that there's work to be done, and buy your records. You know, Wiz Khalifa's coming here. Is he really? After...

I'm done with you, Brad. That's going to be just like this. It'll be exactly... Oh, also, speaking of music, Spotify put us on video now. We were just... Oh, that's great. We were just... It is. No, that's great. Yeah. Because I've been watching the video version of this on Apple. Yes. A lot. I feel like it's much better to see it because, you know, I don't know if you saw Richard Dreyfuss, but... I did. Okay, that was... You have to see that one to believe me.

Sinking into the chair as it... I thought the chair was eating Richard Dreyfuss. When I started this, I said...

I want to find a place where I can make the guest feel even more comfortable. Of course, it's always the host's wish to make the guest feel, but I want to take it to a new level, and I feel with that episode I did. I mean, I feel like... You definitely did. I learned more about Richard Dreyfuss than I ever wanted to know. What can I do to make you more comfortable, Brad Paisley? You don't smoke the wacky weed anymore? I've never done it. Oh, come on. Never? This is not the day. No.

Actually, I would be a very good one to get stoned with for the first time. First of all, 45 years of experience. Yes, for sure. Okay, that's something. We're here in a place where we could get help if you freaked out or something, which I don't think would happen on a pod. Which I definitely would. But I would be a perfect one to talk you down, being older and, you know...

wisdom of the years. All of that stuff. I'm telling you. You're not making me feel better about it. That's amazing. But see, that's another thing I feel like country stars, especially in the modern era, and maybe not back in the Hank Williams day, but country stars and rap stars, both big stoners. Willie Nelson and Snoop Dogg are the two biggest stoners in the world. For sure. Outside of me and Woody Harrelson. And

They both that they're both well Willie's 90 now so he's sharp as a tack still yeah, I'm degree I'm it's it's it's an amazing buddy doesn't smoke constantly like he did all his life doesn't he no not anymore the biggest the most

Smoke I've ever seen come out of a human being was Keith Richards when I've done some shows with the stones and it's like and Keith's like I think it kind of doesn't and he comes the dressing room and like this big It's a he's smoking a football, you know like this. He's Richard. Yeah, what yours is? I don't know maybe I don't want to get him in trouble a while ago and

Why would that get him? Keith Richards? Yeah, let's still let the cat out of the bag that he was a drug user. It was like the teens, like 2015 probably, 2016. That's like the tamest thing he's ever done. Well, that's the thing. He considers himself sober because it's now vodka and weed is all he does.

I mean, this guy was so fucked up, he had to, like, steal the blood of Swiss children. How old is Keith now? Do you remember that? Oh, yeah. He, like, went to Switzerland or something and put in children's blood. Actually... Giving birth to the QAnon theory. Now that I'm mentioning this, I think I'd like to do that myself. Switzerland is a wonderful place. And children have great blood. They do. I mean, that's the one good thing about them. That's why I had kids. We can take...

Right, because their blood would fit in you. It totally does. Right. Every night I say, good night, put on your IV. That's how we do it. They say when they give young blood in the lab to old mice, they act young. And when they put old blood in young mice, they act old. It's a lot about the blood. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's probably true. And you're not helping the QAnon theory right now. What's the QAnon theory about? Oh, the celebrities in Hollywood all... Oh, eat babies and drink their blood? Drink their blood, yeah, yeah, yeah. I really have done... You just literally... They are going to put... This is going to be on websites in the dark web. Well, I didn't say we... Look, I can't... We. All of a sudden, you're in it. You know, they did say I was... They have this thing about red shoes.

Really? Yes. So Garrison Keillor is a... Garrison Keillor? He always wears red shoes. Oh, I didn't know that. Well, he must be like the president then. They have a thing that red shoes is like our way of signaling that we're the part of the pedophile cult or the baby eating cult. And they found a picture of me. I did have a pair of... I thought they were... That's your fault, Bill. That

Ever wearing red shoes. No, you are not a red. You can't pull off red shoes. I I was 30 or whatever maybe then I even then I couldn't but but but I'm saying I should be forgiven for being stupid But I first of all, I thought they were burgundy and they really were but they were a little too reddish. It's true Actually there that I don't know. I'd have to look at them again. I still have them They were actually the first pair of shoes I ever bought so it must go back to my 20s I remember there was the first pair of nice shoes I ever personally bought and

And they were red. In pictures they can come out a different shade than it really is. Yeah, yeah, always. Or maybe they doctored it, but they were reddish and they looked red in the picture. And I remember there was a thing in the press for a little bit where they were saying, oh, we found out. So ever since then, but I've said a couple of times on this show, I did a whole bit where I said I was Q because we don't know who Q is.

And I knew a certain percentage. No, I saw those episodes. Oh, really? I don't miss your show. Oh, that's great. Oh, I love that.

So, yeah, I said I was Q, and I know a certain percentage of them actually believe that because it's so wrong, it's right. It's like, who is the last person you would think would be Q? Yeah. So some of them, I'm sure, are listening to this and say, oh, this isn't just a fake he's doing to make other people think he's not really Q, but we know it's a signal to us. Right. So red shoes, yes, means you're one of those baby eaters.

That's the signal. I'm throwing away my red shoes right now. My red boots. I've got red cowboy boots. You're a rock star. You can wear anything. I don't know about that. Well, I do. I mean, you're up there...

People are screaming. They're mouthing your words as you sing your songs to them. You're playing guitars. You're all amped up. I mean, literally with amps. And hopefully not that scrawling thing that makes me think of the Deliverance Kid. If you ever come see a show, I will make him take the night off.

Steel guitar player gets to watch from the but but getting back to see this is the problem with marijuana you get off the track not that I had a track but Don't am I wrong that like a lot of guys like you Keith Urban You know kid rock although he was never really country. He was like actually more rap He definitely he's he's embedded himself in Nashville though for sure right but the but the

the country sound became more this pop sound that I like with like Brooks and Dunn.

Yeah, which interestingly, like Brooks and Dunn's a great example of their Rolling Stones influence is very prevalent. Right. But they definitely have some of those instruments you dislike in their music. But hopefully you'll listen past that. But more in the early stuff. Right. So I'm saying as it went along, I felt like they, you know, it was like, hey, we're going to make our sixth album. Who's going to tell Clem that we won't need...

Well, you just don't tell Clem. If you have enough money, you pay Clem anyway, and you tell the front of house guy, mute him. Don't let anybody hear him. I've got a few of those guys. Well...

No, I think you're right, though, that we certainly have adopted, we're way closer to the Eagles these days. Exactly, the Eagles. Than we are Hank Williams. Right. But I lament some of that because some of what was going on in the old days was art and genius. And George Jones, I mean, to me, the voice he had and the things he could do vocally was,

Yeah, I mean, but in the same sense, like we are now certainly inhabiting the lane where people would listen to the radio to hear a lyric.

they're listening to us because they want to hear a lyric and a lick and a lick and you know I'm always stealing from because I grew up learning Clapton and learning Van Halen and like we cover hot for teacher in the show we do like just because it's fun to do and as a band we're able to not a lot of bands can even play that my drummer is a beast and so to be able to do that to me

I love being able to say this is country too when we do it. And to be able to say, like somebody asked Waylon Jennings once, they said, what makes a song country? And he said, when I sing it. And it's like...

No kidding, when he sings it, it probably is. So why don't you have an accent? I'm from West Virginia. I think I've been away long enough that a lot of it's gone. When I'm around my friends in Tennessee, sitting here with you, I'm sort of a newscaster. I lose it. You're a chameleon. I'm definitely a chameleon. I see that. That's another thing that probably happens in the rap community.

Yeah, maybe. When you get too far... That's been what's been fun about this new album for me is I named it Son of the Mountains because I'm from that place. And I just spent last weekend in West Virginia filming the photo shoot for the album cover and a couple of music videos.

And one of the songs is about the area I'm from, or two of them, several of them are, but one of them in particular is dealing with the opioid crisis. And so I had to go back and immerse myself in that. I did interviews with survivors and interviews with the local sheriff and the local fire chief who is a, she was unbelievable, the stories she has of that.

Because West Virginia was ground zero for this. So when you go back, you start to see, oh, okay, this is where I'm from again. You do remove yourself, and next thing you know, you have a big farm in Tennessee, and you've got success. You do? You know. You're saying one does or you do? I'm guessing both. I do and one does.

We're all in this accepted, gated community where they stick the singer. Don't apologize for it. No, I'm not. You worked hard? Well, what I'm saying, though, it's very similar to rap in that sense in that you don't want to get above your raising and you want to make sure that you can still realize that the best songs you wrote and the things that you...

basically putting out for folks need to they it needs to tell the stories they want to hear and Sometimes I'll write a song like celebrity where I am making fun of well, yeah of that, you know and and talking about what's the one where you say you're It's funny again. Very funny. Like that's what I always was attracted like with country music, especially your stuff like I'm cute. I'm

much more interesting online. I'm so much cooler online. I'm so much cooler online. Again, something that is such a great universal observation that, you know, I think people who are not famous can understand what we're talking about. For sure. And people who are famous totally relate to that. Yeah.

Well, it's like writing that was fun because I had the idea and then we were trying to find the subtle things you would say online. My favorite verse of that is the second verse. I'll never forget. I was writing this with Kelly Loveless and Chris Dubois, two co-writers of mine. And I remember Chris sitting there and he was kind of quiet for a while. And I said, what are you thinking for the second verse? And he goes, where's the Rose Parade? I said, Pasadena. He said, is that LA? I said, yeah. He said, okay, cool. He's like...

You know, in real life, the only time I've ever even been to L.A. Because you're claiming you're from L.A. in the song. Right. It was when I got the chance in the marching band to play tuba in the Rose Purve. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's a great line. I remember dying going, that's... That's a great line. And his exact thing was, he said, I just remember the kid on the school bus...

The other kids would bring their flute for band practice. They all picked the right instrument. The kid that picked tuba had to lug that damn tuba onto that school bus every day. That's a great line. There's no way to look cool playing the tuba. It's amazing how, you know, a line like that in a song... It's a million... It says... It just... Shit. It's just like a...

It's just like a Easter egg, you know. Well, that's what I like about country writing is when you get the line that's kind of a grenade. Like, sort of, like, you picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille, like Kenny Rogers' song. In a bar in Toledo, we looked like a mountain. Also, The Gambler. Think about this. Don Schlitz writes The Gambler for Kenny Rogers, right? Here is, here's the opening line of The Gambler on a warm...

Summer's evening on a train bound for nowhere. I met up with a gambler. We were both too tired to sleep. It's like There's a million here in it immediately. Oh god. It's like it's script Oh, I know and that's when it's that's when it's art and that's what you strive for is like hitting that note and

Yeah. No, it's so funny. I used to have this argument with Clive Davis about lyrics. And, you know, he thought he knew something about music, but I was arguing with him. But from my personal taste, I would just say, Clive, lyrics are not that important. Like, I have to like the song. If I like the song, the lyrics...

If they're great, it's a great extra if they're not I don't give a shit, right? I mean again the Beatles wrote some really terrible lyrics and

I guess so, but it's funny because... Because they were just hurrying. Being that they built the house... And young. All of us are trying to build the same house, so they're not terrible anymore in that sense. Well, I'm talking about... Like, what's a terrible Beatle lyric to you? Love me do. You know I love you. I'll always be true. They moved on from that once they cashed that in. Of course, but I'm just saying... Right, sure. They were still very young when they were starting, and so some of the stuff... And other stuff is genius, and some of it is just...

I had a young girlfriend once said, "I like the Beatles, but they're just all, the lyrics are gobbly gook." And I was like, oh, first I was like offended. Honey, how can you say that? And I thought about it. - We're breaking up. - I'm like, yeah, some of them are gobbly gook. Some of them are just, you know, if you're stoned and you're thinking about them,

Especially John Lennon liked to write picture. McCartney wrote more like, he loved characters. He would think of a character. Desmond has a barrow in the marketplace. Who's Desmond? Lady Madonna. Eleanor Rigby. George Harrison wrote about the Lord. A lot. A lot. Yes. And John would just, I feel like, he was like, sometimes he was inspired and sometimes it was just like,

Yeah, it was like that book he put out once. He loved wordplay. And I don't know exactly what an impression of his wife, which he made and donated to the National Trust, a soap impression of his wife. I've been listening to it for 50 years. I don't know what it means. I don't care.

The song is great. - Well, and that's, I get in my own way that way a little bit, 'cause I am so obsessed with the lyric being good that I think there's times when I'll agonize over the melody and trying to say exactly what I wanna say with a melody that works. And what's fascinating for me

is when you marry them both, and you can't. Of course. Yes. That's what I'm trying to do in the latest stuff, is make sure that if I'm culling something out of this, that it's the right one, that it's the one that doesn't tick the box. No, it's always better when you have both. Right. But if you don't have...

you know, there are lyrics that I just don't understand. They're just sound pictures like Crimson and Clover. You ever hear that one? Yeah. You know, it's the sound, what he, it's just a sound collage. It just sounds great. Yeah. And I don't know what the fuck it means. I don't care. Crimson and Clover over and over. Yeah, sure. Whatever. It's sexy. I mean, the first line is,

I mean, put that on next time you're trying to get laid. Really. I saw it in a movie. I saw Mila Kunis do it in a movie. She's in this movie with, I think, Clive Owen. It wasn't a big movie, but it's kind of gritty. It's good. He's a convict anyway, gets with her. And it's like the first time they're about to fuck. And this is like in the 70s. And she gets up the old turntable and she puts the needle down. And...

First line of you know crimson and clover. I'm sure you could sing it better than I could I don't need to try today and You know won't you come walking over All that all that echoey stuff right right you know and I'm waiting to show her It's some of it is you can understand it's very sexy and then some of it and then that we go into crimson and clover and like what the fuck and then

There are songs where I absolutely don't like the lyric. They're saying something. There's a new one like that, but I love the song. Miley Cyrus, Flowers. Oh, you don't like the lyric of that? No. Why? Because... Because I like the lyric of that. I think she hit what we were talking about right there, which is a lyric that is...

I love the lyric and then also the melody. It is in your, you made it. I love the record. I do not like the idea. I can love myself better than you can.

Well, I don't think that's a good message. I'm gonna argue on her behalf. I understand it's a breakup album. Yeah, I know where she's coming from It's not about I am not about right but still in principle, but of course I have to relate to it I have to hear it. So when she says I can send myself flowers Yeah, you can but the whole point of flowers is if somebody is sending to you Yes, you can you can do a lot of things you can huff lemon pledge but I

It's not a idea I want in my head and I don't think that it's very unromantic and it's not true. No one can love you better. I mean, you can't get the kind of love you need from another person. - No, but better than that guy.

Better than what she's saying. I understand that I understand it on that level. We're turning around on this. No, no, no I mean, it's both we're both right. Yeah, you're I mean but compared to like here's this song we could compare it to Barbra Streisand and Neil Diamond had a big hit about 1980 you don't buy me flowers Correct. You don't bring me flowers. You don't bring me flowers anymore. And it's a very sad

affecting song that every couple can relate to universally true when you lose that thing but she she wants someone to bring her flowers okay and this is like

Fuck off, bitch. I don't need your flowers. And it made me think of masturbation, which I am a big fan of and have been for many years. Compared to these kids today who, like, sometimes they can't even get into a relationship because they're so hooked on porn. And porn is so good now, we have to admit. They don't even want to bother with a girlfriend. And I must say...

As much as I love masturbation and as much as it is done for me I never once did it and thought this is better

This is well, it's different and it's great to have it but I it never made me say oh I don't have to have sex as I have this No, this is a good stopgap But it's not better and and no one can love you better than someone else No one can make you feel you can't make yourself feel the way another person can feel by I guess Corroborating what you oh, I thought I was a pretty good guy and this person fucking loves me, right? But you know and back to what you're saying where we're both right That was the best

advice I ever got from a co-writer and also a guy that ended up becoming a business partner in our publishing company. I would go in with a song and play him the song and say, what do you think? He's like, I love it. That second verse doesn't make any sense. And I would say, no, you're wrong. And he's like, I can't be wrong.

I'm not, I can't be wrong. It's an opinion. I can't be wrong. He's like, I don't like it. And I'm like, well, you're wrong. He's like, you can't say that. And would make me get better at that. And that was the best. That's the, that's the advice I give Nashville aspiring writers is like, listen, guys, do yourself a favor. When somebody doesn't like something you did,

They're probably being honest with you. They're probably not doing it to be a jerk They're just being honest and it's like you will become a better songwriter, but they may not just listen They also may not be right they may not but at the same time if somebody though says I hate that Because there's an awful lot of things that we know yeah, okay in the art world not just music but lots of things where everyone thought it was a piece of shit and

or no one believed in it, and one person who was the artist believed in it and pushed it through, and then we look back and go, oh, wow. Well, don't listen to the industry on that. Listen to your fans. If your fans love something...

They're right, but you don't always know what the fans are gonna love because sometimes you have to leave them for sure That's that's been my that's been my opening in country music lately is that is trying to find? Ways to say things and and get them to come with me, you know and in the sense that it's like guys It's like I know you're setting your ways on some of these things and

But don't go the wrong direction on Ukraine Don't go the wrong direction on in terms of freedom in terms of the things that we all should have and that's that's what that's this new record is Largely looking at to me are these themes that it's like trying to get them It's like a song of mine called American Saturday night which celebrates all of these people that make America what it is and it's like

And what's fun is on any Saturday night in America in the middle of the heartland is this yeah, man It's like it's like yeah I know I'm celebrating our diversity and they are too and so they're willing to do it if you take them there musically But that's the thing is you've got to find a way to give them that thing that that they like But don't always let somebody if they don't like something, you know deter you because

I'm telling you, you can think of a lot of songs. You know the Beach Boys' Good Vibrations? Totally. Okay. We're talking about 1965. I remember hearing, I was probably nine years old, hearing it on the beach. Yeah. Like, I wasn't into music yet, but the radio was on. I was aware. And like...

You can see why, I mean, looking back, I can see why nobody wanted to put that out. Right. That was not, didn't sound, I mean, it had the Beach Boys harmonies and stuff, but it wasn't like, you know, Serb City, here we come, you know. Right. They had put out some, I mean, he was getting much more sophisticated, and that has some weird sonic flourishes in there. I don't even know what the instruments are. Ooh!

You know it yeah, and it kind of changes tempos And it's just one of those songs that it's a little symphony in a record We have so bohemian rhapsody for sure is another one I'm sure they didn't want to put that what there's opera in the middle of it and all this kind of stuff But somebody believes in it and and the audience doesn't know they're gonna like that right? Oh you put it out for sure and and I think it's it's sort of like I think you probably find this in stand-up and

There are jokes, you know work and they're gonna work because you know they work and and you're gonna believe in that enough And you stand there and do it You better you gotta lean it. We have to lean into that and the audience smells the fear They know of course and they do in recorded music too. Like they know when you are like

Yeah, I think when you're putting your toe in the water and going I don't know. What do you think they know? I still think it's easier for a musician and I've seen Plenty of times well, maybe not plenty of times but I've seen enough times like I'm thinking specifically about charity events

Yeah, where it's a big charity event which should there is the worst audience in the world for everybody usually I always think you people Charity should begin here Charity right for me right and okay, so I've seen bands Yeah, like performing at these places where I was probably performing also and

And I could tell they fucking hated it. First of all, it's not their crowd. That's the same thing why I don't like it. It's not my specific crowd. Some people there who like you and some people... I saw the Eagles once.

This is about 2007 or 8. It was right after their comeback album came out, which was awesome. Hellfrey's over. No, no, no. That was 94. In 2007, they didn't make a new record. It was called Long Road Out of Eden. It's a double album. It's fantastic. It could fit right well into their other catalog. So they played, I think, the first song. And the whole room is just talking.

And I just wanted to stand up and shout. This is the fucking Eagles. I watched Glenn Frye I went to the forum Joe had me Joe Walsh had me go as a guest and I went and watched from front of house at the forum I got to see them in the forum the last time that they did intact with with Glenn right and which was when they reopened the forum, which is an amazing venue now and and

Watched Glenn do his thing where he went off on that audience Oh man, cuz he didn't like what they were doing Like it was like watching a stand-up comedian just like tell him off like what it was their show. Oh, yeah And he still didn't like the audience. He didn't like what they were doing. He didn't like they were they were it was interesting It was too bad because it was like they were standing He told them you should stand on the up tempos and sit on the ballads You don't stand on the balance and I was like, okay

In the back, and Joe was like, yeah, he shouldn't have done that.

But it was a bad night. He just did that. But it didn't matter. I mean, the audience. I mean, that's a compliment that even on the ballads they're standing. Yeah. It's not an insult. I know. But it was one of those things where some of these, that generation had their own ideas about what audiences should do. And maybe that's what their audiences did forever. I never heard anyone have that idea about what audience should do. It was new to me, too. Yeah, I don't think we need to defend this at all. I think that's just pure nut.

I don't know why, but he was an ornery guy. I remember after watching the great documentary on them, and I was talking about it with a friend, and I said, you know,

Glenn wasn't just the co-writer and the great harmonist, but he was also the general manager of the Eagles. It was like a sports team, and he kept trading players. It's like, yeah, you know what? I think I should... Sorry, we're going to have to send you down. We're going to send you down to poker. Because you know what? Bernie Ledin, in the first incarnation of the... played a little bit of that stuff I don't like.

Oh, right. Yeah, the bend. Yeah, I know. Well, I'm going to change my, if you're ever at a show, I'm going to have to change my whole damn set list. Not your whole set list. I'll be like, no, we're not doing that one tonight. Can't do that one. Sorry. No, that's heavy. That's heavy on the pedal steel. We're going to have to, I can't wait until Randall, my pedal steel player, sees it. I don't think it's the pedal steel. I bet it is. Really? I bet it is. Is that really? Is that the ultimate country instrument? Really?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, really? I'm surprised at that. It might be that. If it's not the banjo, it's that. No. It's not the fiddle. No, I always thought it was a bird you had trained. Yeah, it's basically that. Now, you could certainly stick a bird, you could stick a parakeet over here and get the same effect. Mic him up. We could save some money on that. Well, I would love to come see you sometime. Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah.

When are you going to play Nashville again? Do you know? No, but I'm, let's see. I remember I was there in August.

I think it was almost two years ago. It's got to be next year because I don't think it's this year. Maybe it was last year. Yeah, I play it every two years, the Ryman. The Ryman's the best. The Ryman's the best. It's an interesting thing, that little preserved. And actually, you know, that's the thing about the Ryman is the history of that place all the way back to what it began as, as a church where they basically had the Confederate soldiers serve

after the war and the fact that it's come that far to do what it does and to host people like Aretha Franklin playing it eventually. Yes, and we have to do that. We have to bury the ghosts of the past. I remember when we did a... I thought it was a pretty funny editorial one week. It was about five years ago, and...

Who was it? Ryan Reynolds got married on a, they found out after the fact that they got married on, in the South, on some place that used to be a plantation. So there had to be, you know, as always in America, a cringing apology about how horrible we are because we, and of course, he's fucking from Canada. Why do we go through this charade? Like, what the fuck?

What the fuck does Ryan Reynolds have to do with the Confederacy? And first of all, every inch of the South was a plantation. I mean, for fuck's sake. That was the thing for me, like moving from West Virginia to Tennessee in the 90s when I moved there to do this.

And eventually buy on a farm and I don't know what happened on my farm before I was there There's no record of it, but it probably wasn't good and it's like I mean, you know and and it's like in that sense But I'm from a state like I've had this conversation with a lot of West Virginia's like we're the state that said no and We exist because we said we're gonna leave really. Yeah, we were Virginia we cut. Oh, that's right and and so there aren't a

I didn't grow up around that. I didn't grow up around statues that need to be torn down or any of that. When I moved to Tennessee, there was a lot of that culture shock a little bit. It would be a really good remake. Saturday Night Fever, but instead of

This urban setting where he is from, you know, he's from Brooklyn famously, you know You've seen Saturday Night Fever John Walter, you know, he's Tony Manero from Brooklyn Yeah, and his dream is to cross that river even though and that's many people's dreams in the boroughs of New York right, you know to cross the river to Manhattan where the beautiful people are and to make it there and you can redo that like where you're from the small town

but you want to get to like Mount Pilot. I remember on Andy Griffith's show, they're always like, you know,

So they lived in Mayberry, but if you really wanted to go shopping-- - You'd go get Chinese in Mount Pilate. You'd have Chinese food and go to a movie in Mount Pilate. - Or even Raleigh, I mean, if you made it to Raleigh. - Raleigh was called the Concrete Jungle in Andy Griffith. - Yeah, so you could do the country version of that. - It would be Saturday night low-grade fever. It would be like that.

That's actually a good idea. It actually is a good idea. I come up with so many good ideas on Club Random. Yes, I saw. What was the one you had? You had one for somebody. Yes, I did. I did. I had so many great ideas. I remember thinking, yeah, you should make that. Right. I can spot a mile away who should be a detective on CBS. Oh, right. To me, that's always like when it's over. Not over, but like...

You know, when they come to you for detective work on CBS, it means you were a star, a movie star. And now, you know, it's not horrible. It's probably great. The pay is great. I can't think of a better fate.

Can't then starring Brad Paisley as Detective really detective Lawrence you would do that no You never had any you didn't many interested in Like that. Yeah. No, that's so smart. You know what? I've said no to a lot of things like they offered me a few things here and there and I was like, what's it do? And they're like, yeah, it's it's three months Some of them have actually done quite well, I

Well, you know what I would do? Oh, Tim's great. Tim is great at it and he's worked at it. That's the thing. I have an actress wife. I know what it takes. And I don't think for a second I'm an actor. I know she's an actor. She married me. But it's like it's like anything. No, seriously. She's like, no, there's times when it's like, I love you, too. And I'm like, good job, because I know you don't right now.

In the case of that though, I've never wanted to do that's for other people I mean the one thing I would do and I've said this forever is a Will Ferrell movie or something like that like that That's fun. But that's yeah, that's not the same as as Something the Nero. I mean, it's no you go and do something with will and you and it's like I'm playing Whatever you can cast me as whatever you want and I would but a lot of them be the the death wave you're genuinely a down-home country boy and

It plays so well on camera. And they don't have to do a hell of a lot of acting because it's like a natural charm. You know who turned in an amazing acting performance in the 70s? Mac Davis. Mac. Well, you know what's funny? North Dallas 40. Have you ever seen? That was my first concert. I was five. And I begged my parents to take me to see Mac Davis at the Ohio State Fair. So they drive me a couple of hours to the Ohio State Fair to hear Mac.

Hard to be humble, and I believe in music and all of it. So I go to see Mac Davis, and I finally got to meet him later. He lived out here. And what's funny is yesterday, I go to this comic book memorabilia shop with my kids, and I see a Mac Davis album, and I had to buy it because just to hang it on the wall. It's called Stop and Smell the Roses is the name of the album.

And the album is him with a cigarette and a cowboy hat smoking a cigarette. Like literally half of the cigarette's gone. And the album's called Stop and Smell the Roses. And I'm like, what art director said, you know what sells this? A Marlboro in your fingers. It's the craziest album cover I've ever seen. Oh, they just didn't care about that. I literally bought that yesterday. But Mac was a good actor.

In North Dallas 40, he's fantastic. I wonder what an icon he was at the time. So to conclude our time together, and I hope we do it again either on or off camera. I'd love to do it again, anytime. Would you duet with me on a Mac Davis song that I just thought of? What's that?

Baby, baby, don't get hooked on me. Baby, baby, don't get hooked on me. Yeah, oh my God. Because I'll just. Yes. And I'll set you free. There's a great line in that where he goes, and it's warm where you're touching me. Yeah.

Those songs back then? Bill Anderson, the great country writer and my buddy, he used to call those skin songs. It was always about, had to get some mention of touch and skin and your subtle skin. I felt like that was so blatant in an era where they censored anything. And it's warm where you're touching me. It just... Well, there's a million of those back then in country music. I mean, you know, if

If I said you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me? Things like that. It was amazing. Right. And how that got past censors. It did. How about Honky Tonk Badonkadonk by our friend Trace Adkins? That got past censors, too. All right, I'll say, I'm going to call him tonight or tomorrow because we all have to get together. You love him, right? I do. He's great. Thank you. That was so much fun. I'm so glad I got to know you. Thank you for having me. No. I appreciate it.