Alan Ritchson | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. It strikes me as odd that someone would have religion on one in their life and also a psychiatrist. You're not like in the tabloids yet. You're going to be. Well, people don't want to talk about me. You're wrong. You're wrong. Trust me, you're wrong. Alan.

I know. Very nice to meet you. You think I don't know who's coming? I barely do, by the way. I'm a newcomer to some people. You don't know. No, no, no, no. Oh, no. No, I've seen your show. I have to tell you, like, when you were coming over here, I was like, because they do a million jokes, like, on how big you are. That's like, you know, which is funny. I love your show. It's very well written. It is. And you're great in it.

I didn't say you could sit down. You want to sit? Make yourself at home. This is my podcast. I was like, I got to see this guy because they make all these fucking jokes. Is he really insanely huge or is he just a big guy? And now I have my answer. I'm really not. Right. You're just a big guy. But you're not like Sasquatch. But it's big enough for the part. I'm kept humble by people that come up to me and they're like...

Either you're way bigger than I thought you were or you're not nearly as big as I thought you were. I'll get both in the same day. I remember I met Bruce Smith. Do you know football? Not really. He was like one of the best defensive ends, I guess, played for the Buffalo Bills who went to the Super Bowl like four years in a row. Never won it, sadly, for them. But they were great. And he was like one of the best defensive players ever. And I met him. I was like, oh, wow.

He's not that big. Right. You know, he's just good. Right, yeah. And... Yeah, there was a huge asterisk by this. I was never supposed to be Reacher. They were trying very hard to find somebody who fit that iconic 6'5", 250-pound frame. What are you? 6'3", and I was 205 pounds. I was like a marathon runner. I was like a jockey when I booked this thing, when they came at me. And so I had to put on weight for this role. It's hysterical to me that they...

cast in the movie and Tom Cruise who is known as

for using an apple box oh really if he's in a scene with his kids you know he's like known to be a shrimp a little bit you know on the short side and not that i'm very tall but i think i'm taller than him but if you've written 10 books and you have the the biggest star ever saying they want to play your character like you'd make a couple concessions you bring out the apple box didn't bother me one bit i'd never heard of the book

Not a book I would read. Still haven't, and I don't need to. Now I have the show. - Yeah. - You know, and I enjoyed the Tom Cruise movies. Tom Cruise is, you know, obviously the most reliable movie star. Like, I can't think of a movie of his that bored me. - None.

None. Never. And many, many... Including the Reacher films. Including the Reacher films. Yeah. It didn't bother... I didn't give a shit. It's a kick-ass movie. I mean, on the media, it's not really, you know...

of maiming these people. It's just good fun. And everything you build around the action is important. I'm telling you, your show, I don't know who writes it, but they did a hell of a good job. Thank you. They do a good job. There's a room. There's a writer's room. Nick Santora, I would give credit for that. He's just incredibly talented. Yeah. And has captured the tone and the levity of Reacher perfectly. That's in the books?

Totally. I couldn't believe how funny the books were when I read them. Oh, is that right? Yeah, I just thought it was pure action. I don't know, action and drama. And the character's funny, and there's a lot of levity in the fact that he's so socially awkward. It's hilarious, and it's disarming. Actually, he's quite articulate. I mean, he has lots of... On this show, he doesn't say much in the books. Oh, really? I thought I was hitting the lottery, because I was like, I'm not going to have to learn any lines.

And then I get a nine-page monologue the first day. And I'm like, so I'm delivering all the exposition. I see. I see. But it's fun. And the way it's handled is good. Yeah, you know, I mean, I remember reading for parts. And, like, you'd think you'd nailed it. And then, like, you'd see you got it. And they go, OK, that guy just was this. Right, right.

You know, and that, those, you know, there's no shame in that, that you're just this guy. Totally. And you are, right? It seems to, it seems to be true for me right now. No, I mean, even like personality-wise, you seem like the, you know, I don't know, I don't know anything about you, personal life, but am I wrong?

To guess that? You know, Reacher is much more stoic than I am. I love people so much. Really? That's why I'm here. I don't. I just, I deeply love, I have an affection for people. And, you know, I'm... I do too. I mean, I'm so blessed with so many, when you get older, you know, you collect people just the way you collect people.

all the shit in this room and everything else in life. I don't mean that in a bad way. It's good. Not at all. You know, I would say I work with a psychiatrist. I just started working with a psychiatrist. For you? Yeah, for me. And the number one theme in this conversation is you have to plug in, like to put people in your life

Just to broaden your landscape, because I'm so intensely private and so self-reliant and such a lone wolf. That's Reacher. That's what I just said to you. It is Reacher. So I was right. That is Reacher. Do you have a house? I don't. No? Oh. I just sold my house because I'm never there.

So what do you walk on the road like? I live out of like Airbnbs and stuff where I work. That's hysterical. I mean, dude, I have not had a day. Other than the strike, I have not had a single weekend off in like two years. I go from project to project with no time in between. It's been a very good run. And I'm never home. And I like it that way. And I've got three kids and I've got a wife. And we all travel together and we homeschool our kids. Oh, you like Richard, but he brings his kids on the road? Yeah, a little more than a toothbrush. Yeah.

Yeah, I saw the trailer. They sent me the trailer. I guess it's not out yet, right? The movie, the World War II movie? Ministry of Ungen... Yes, yes, yes. Now, for somebody like me, that looks really great because World War II, big World War II buff. Had you heard of Anders Lassen? No. Or the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare? Is that a real thing? This is declassified. This is Winston Churchill's brainchild.

And these documents were just recently declassified and there was a book written about them. So this movie is loosely based on that book. Of course, it's Guy Ritchie, so it's got his spin on it. What's he like? Working with him was creatively the scariest. I noted the pause there, Alan. The air goes out of the room. So just to put it in context, from a performer's perspective, I am super intense with my work.

And so I'm playing this historical figure, Anders Lassen, World War II figure, part of the first Special Forces mission in history, essentially. And this is a Danish aristocrat in World War II who learned English from British aristocracy, so a fine and muddled accent. I needed to prepare for this role. He's a marcher. Oh, bad. Have you ever done an accent in a movie? No.

Yeah, like, you know, I've got a movie coming out tonight, actually. Tonight? A Kentucky accent. You are busy. I'm a busy boy. You've got a movie coming out tonight? Really? Today. What's that movie?

"Ordinary Angels" is also based on a true story. The headlines in the '90s were "Snow Baby." This is about a father who loses his wife to a rare genetic disorder, and his daughter comes down with the same thing. And so he's in a fight. It's man versus institutions and medicine and hospitals and debt and nature to try to save this little girl. It's a comedy? It's the funniest movie I think I've ever made.

And Hilary Swank plays Sharon, this woman who's got-- Love Hilary Swank. She's incredible. She's incredible in the movie. Sharon in the story-- She seems like a nice person. She's like-- Hilary or Sharon? Yeah, Hilary Swank. She's wonderful. Yeah. She's genuinely a very down to earth person and was so generous to take this space with me. I mean, she didn't know who I was before doing this.

And she was just told he's on the project and do you like the script? And she said she would do it. And there was a little apprehension I could tell when we met of this kind of this air of like, you better be good. That's good for you. And the first scene that we did together, she grabbed me by the shoulder at the end and said, I'm so glad you're doing this movie. Oh, that's great. It was so good. Yeah, so she was real sweet. And now we've been good friends.

She's great, but she plays this character who is a town drunk and decides just on a whim to help this family. She sees a headline in the paper and decides, "I'm gonna move heaven and earth to help this little girl." Totally platonic.

relationship between her and the father, and she helped save this girl. It's a very inspiring movie. At the premiere, Lionsgate handed out Kleenex to everybody in the audience, and not one was dry at the end of the film. Really? It's a beautiful movie. And

you know, wholesome and fun for everybody. So that's in the theaters? That's out today. So I guess when people are seeing this, we'll have been out. I guess movies are going back to opening in the theaters, huh? Yeah, you know, thank God for Lionsgate. Not only are they taking a swing at the theaters, Lionsgate, but they're taking a swing at original, you know, at either, you know, true stories or, you

smaller impactful films or things like Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare is also Lionsgate. That's a high concept original piece of IP. So they're filling that very difficult space with that like between 20 and $70 million. - They're selling me on Lionsgate. I made them one movie, my movie called "Religulous". I don't know if you ever heard of it. - I've seen it. - Oh, okay. - It was great. - It is great. I mean, Larry Charles, the brilliant director who did Borat and Bruno,

He and I, we went and did this movie 15 years ago. Wow, it seems... Was that Lionsgate that distributed that? I mean, first of all, nobody would do it today, but only Lionsgate would do it back then. I will always be so indebted to them because... I feel the same way. You know, I mean, my ex-manager at the time, Brad Gray, was head of Paramount. And, of course, you know, we were close, and he was like, we could do it. And I said, you know what? You know what happened, Brad, is that...

People will start to complain and say, if you release this movie or blah, blah, blah, show it here, do that, then we're not going to support X, Y, and Z. And they had Mission Impossible franchise and stuff. They had pressure to put on them. Lionsgate alone was like, fuck all you. We're going to put this movie on. Now, they wouldn't show it in many states, right?

Probably the ones where you can't get an abortion. Right, yeah. Probably the ones where it wouldn't have performed well. But it did great. At the time it came out, it was the seventh most successful documentary ever made. Oh, wow. Yeah, it did really, really. But, you know, of course, the material was going to be offensive to any religious people, which is still most of the country. And even though it was not mean-spirited, you know, it was not looking down, right?

On Christians, one of the first places we went was a truck stop church outside of Raleigh, North Carolina. Truckers, and it's a little shed out in the parking lot. And they have a mass there. And I spoke to them there. And one guy walked out right away. It was like,

If you're making fun of my God, man, I don't want any part, you know. But the other ones stayed, and we had a really good dialogue. Interesting. You know, they weren't, we wound up hugging it out, and, you know. Do you feel like you learn anything from that audience when you talk to people from that space? No.

I'm always up for learning something. I mean, my favorite three words are, I don't know, because if I say that, I always learn something. So, you know, if you can tell me, usually it's the other way around, quite frankly, because people, they're religious, they don't know anything about their own religion. Most Christians, maybe you're one of them,

You're a Christian, right? I am. Yeah, okay. Would tell you that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were disciples of Jesus, the people who wrote the Gospels, and they were absolutely not. Did you think they were? No, I mean, we know that those documents were based off an older document. They came later. Right, yeah. Jesus died in 33, and the first Gospel, Mark, the Gospel of Mark, is 70.

They were not contemporaries of it. They all had similar names, the disciples. So it is a little confusing. But I've talked to people who are real serious Christians and scholars and all this stuff, and they, oh no, I don't think that's... Trust me, every scholar...

understands this. It's not an insult either. It's just, that's just the fact. I mean, you know, the big... They don't know their own religion. They haven't read the Bible. They talk about the Bible a lot. It's a long book. It's boring. But the problem that I have with most Christians today, and I talk about this openly a lot, is

is that it misses the point. I mean, you can get hung up in the weeds about Document Q or whatever you want to talk about with where this stuff comes from, but the point is very simple. You've got somebody who claims to be the Messiah pointing the way towards

a whole radically different new way to love. And that's through self-sacrificial care of your neighbor. - Very true. - And when you talk about just that, it's a really beautiful thing that a lot of other religions don't talk about because you're talking about religions that talk about the way to salvation is through doing it over and over and over again and living a million lives.

or finding your own self-elevation through meditation or contemplation. But this is talking about admitting that we are flawed and admitting that there's a path towards joy that comes through self-service and self-sacrifice, and I like that. - The biography of Jesus is anything but unique. In fact, it's stolen. The number of gods who came before him who were born on December 25th, really.

had disciples, were crucified or something on a tree and then came back to life. Even Genesis, like even the very first story in Genesis, the second line, talking about the spirit hovered over the water, those chaos waters, that myth, that myth was absconded from early Eastern. The flood. But the thing that makes it different is there's a twist on every one of them that orients us towards, I think, a seed of truth that is worth saying

Worth inspecting and holding on to that, you know, for example, the real twist in the first myth and the creation myth in Genesis is quite simply that those chaos waters that everybody knew and the serpent being, you know, the snaky monster being the mythological villain, right?

was well known to people at that time, but never had there been an acknowledgement that it was God who created that thing and that he thought that thing was good and that we're to coexist with this world where things like monsters exist and humans exist. And there's a way to do that in a way that still breeds peace. That had never been done before. Well, I was going to say the biography of Jesus, not original, but the message was revolutionary.

Nobody had really ever been down the meek shall inherit the earth road. There were so many at the time that Jesus was around, if he lived, that is still an open question. He could not have been actually a historical figure, but probably was. But at the time, the Greek Roman mythology was waning, so there were a lot of other competing religions.

It's kind of like, you know, when anything starts, sometimes there's two meteor movies. There's always, you know, Betamax and, you know, whatever, what'd be Betamax, VHS.

Yeah, it's also that idea. There's always competing things that are coming around. There were competing religions at Jesus' time. The reason why that one won is because in an empire that was at least a third slave, the message of it gets good in the afterlife

was very attractive. And that's not something, that's not really in Judaism either. Judaism is not centered on the next world. Christianity is like, sure, this life is shit, but let me tell you something. You're gonna inherit the kingdom of heaven

And who's going to do that? The meek, the losers. Yeah, yeah. The losers are going to get... Now, Nietzsche said this message was very bad for humans because it was telling you the strong don't win and that...

- Well, not only that, but that earth is not our home. Here's the problem. - The what? - That earth is not our home, that our home is somewhere else in heaven, right? - Right, right. - And so we can take a dump on earth, right? - Right. - Because it's not for us, 'cause we're waiting for the better place, right? - Exactly. - But that is also not the message.

The message is that the kingdom is coming to us, that heaven is coming here, that our restoration, our salvation, and our heaven is earth, that we're earthly creatures made for this place, and that this resurrection will take place on earth. So if you're truly following the way of Christianity,

you will be a good steward of this place because this is where heaven is. You know, this would be a really successful episode if you got me to be a Christian by the end of it. I'm telling you, this thing would fucking explode on the internet. Reacher convinces Bill Moore, devout Christian. That would be hilarious. And that's not my effort. I know, I'm fucking with you. I talk about this all the time. And what I want, if I could have my druthers, I want less vitriol in my life.

in the world and I want the Christian community not to be the one that's known for making outliers and monsters of others. Right. It's a real disappointment. And that is a, there is a growing number of Christians who feel exactly the way you do. I mean, we are, you know, when I started covering politics,

Yeah, Christian was always Jerry Falwell and those. Yeah, right. And, I mean, generations change, and it's just the people who are left in Christianity, because it is always going downward. The trend is less and less people are believing the myth. Why would you want to? There's a lot of venomous Christians out there who...

Again, who are so tribal that what they're trying to do is find safety in numbers and creating outgroups. No, I mean, the younger generations, I'm always ragging on them for good reason. They deserve it. But they do. And they know it. They're inheriting a real shit show. Oh, stop it. They're inheriting the best world that it's ever been. What a bunch of bullshit. For who? For them. For Wall Street? For Wall Street?

No, there are a lot of people who can't. They will never own a home. There are people who will never own a home because of the way that things are structured right now.

One of the big revelations that surprised me and everybody else who was hearing it is that the millennials who we've been hearing forever, oh, tough economic times and living in their parents' basement and actually doing better comparatively by the numbers than every other generation. They're not. Wow.

Every millennial right now rolling over in their parents' basement as they listen to you say this. But they're not. Because they can't afford a home. But they're not. Hoping their apartment gets rent control. But, Alan, there's actual government statistics on this kind of stuff. So what you're citing is anecdotal. That's what I was doing. They're purring that mom and dad croak right now so that they can try to get a house. Again, we have actual information on that.

We have actual information. So you can believe what you ever want because that's what religion is, just believing whatever the fuck you want. But there is actual information. There is actual information. And the millennials are actually doing better than other generations. Here's what millennials are doing better than anybody else, than any generation before. This is a real headline. You all go look this bad boy up.

Fathers are spending more time with their kids than any generation before them. Well, good. That is the victory that they're having. They're re-ranking their priorities. What I was going to say is they're less religious. They are re-ranking their priorities. Right. And they're finding ways to spend time in places that matter more than corporate servitude. Or church.

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But I was raised Catholic. I was too. I am not Catholic. I am not Catholic. Oh, really? I am not. Me neither. I am not Catholic. What are you? There are so many problems, and I'm so disgusted at the defense that they've waged for their cardinals and bishops and everybody involved. The kid stuff. Yeah, dude. It's disgusting how hard they're fighting. Well, it just shows you how institutions become corrupt. And, you know, I mean, this...

This last pope, there were lots of things. I mean, I just like him as a guy. He wavers between doing like hip stuff. He takes a hip pill once in a while. And then he goes and protects a cardinal who's like been passing around kids. He doesn't do that. Like baseball cards. No, no, no, no. Yeah, they do. Not this one. They all know about this stuff. And nobody, you know, he's doing it until somebody stops the buck and they go, you know what? We're going to hold all these pedophiles accountable.

He is not holding him accountable, so he's just as complicit. The church definitely... He doesn't know? The church definitely needs a fresh new face somewhere other than a priest's lab. Like Jack Smith. Maybe we get a prosecutor in there. But you're being too hard on Frank. Frank has tried more than his predecessors to...

I mean, he talked openly about the homosexual cabal in the Vatican. Nobody ever did that. Nobody ever blew the lid off that one. And he is not, I don't think he is transferring them like they used to. I don't think he's, I think first of all, it just became too obvious and it was too open and nobody could do that anymore. But I just, I like Frank.

again, he wavers between like sort of taking a hip pill one day and he'll say things like, atheists can get into heaven like we could give a shit because we don't believe in it. Okay, but a nice gesture. And then he'll go back to, he remembers, he's the fucking Pope.

and he'll do something really hard, right wing. But it's like, okay, but that's your brand. I kind of respect that. You kind of have to once in a while be that guy because that's what people want. I mean, why would you join a religion if you didn't want super duper hard, fast rules?

To keep you in line and to give you a sense of order in the world, even if it's not. I mean, my Jewish mother, sort of Jewish, but not Catholic. She didn't go to church with us. When I asked her at the beginning of religion, I was, why did you go along with this? You know, because she didn't go to church. She said, well, I just thought you needed structure and any structure, even though I didn't believe in it was better than nothing. I get that.

I wouldn't subscribe to it, but I understand that's why. She thought, oh, you need some kind of religion in you. I mean, this is the 60s, you know. So, yeah, we're not, I'm not Catholic. It sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me, but, you know, they're going to teach you commandments and right and wrong, and I think people feel like, and a lot of people, by the way, do need that. I

I mean, I think religion, it can make you, it absolutely keeps some people in line. Mark Wahlberg, I'm guessing, is one of them. Yeah. I just feel like without Catholicism, Mark Wahlberg would be all over the map. And it's not to say that everybody, you know, every Catholic is complicit or every Catholic is in on that or whatever. I mean, look, my mom is a staunchly Catholic. She's a saint, you know. She's like a daily mass, like, you know, spends her free time gardening,

tilling the weeds at the church. And I think it's not just important to her, but it's an important part of her identity.

I respect that. And there are millions and tens of millions of people like that around the world that are Catholics. But I personally just couldn't be a part of something giving my tithes or time or energy towards something where it's so well known that there's hideous acts of rape and pedophilia going on. And nobody's doing anything about it. So you're religious but without a structure, without a, you don't subscribe to any one religion?

Because organizations do always become corrupt. Always. To some degree. It's in the nature. I think, I mean, that probably has more to do with the lack of structure in my life. You know, I don't have a home. You're Reacher. We're back to being Reacher. I mean, I'll spend, you know, I'll spend four or five months in Toronto filming Reacher and then I'll go to London or Turkey to film a movie. I'm in Winnipeg. I'm here, I'm there. Yeah.

I don't have anywhere to plug in really, so I don't have a reason to sort of like see what the constitution of a certain religious platform is. But I deeply care about exploring those ideas. I think they had a ton of fulfillment to my life. Look, I'm not the poster child for Christianity. I'm a creative perfectionist and stubborn and strong-willed and

you know, duplicitous and like, I need, like, I benefit, I benefit greatly from having a model for me for what I think the best, the highest ideal of love is, which like I said, is a self-sacrificial love. Right. You know. I'm totally down with that. That's it. Yeah. I just don't think he's God.

I don't think there's such a thing as a god. I guess we'll find out. Yeah. I guess we'll find out. Well. Rock on. I do. I'll name it. But I know that's not for everybody. But that's kind of like buying the insurance when you get a rental car. I mean, that's not a good reason. I'm not saying that's why you're doing it. I've got an umbrella policy. I'm not saying that's why you're doing it.

But, and yeah, maybe you're right. I mean, that's, I always say it in religious, I preach the gospel of I don't know. You know, people make much too big of a deal about the difference between atheist and agnostic. It really is the same thing. Yeah, totally. Look, I just, you know, there's like, I think there's good, we don't have to get into it. I think there's good reasons though. Like people, people that were very close to him died.

defending the fact that he was a historical figure and that what he said was true and that they believed he was a Messiah. Are we talking about Jesus? 11 of his 12 apostles, yes. Oh. You know, so...

You know, there are things that have happened historically that are verifiable that I think go to show that people that were very close to him very much believe this. That's not historically verifiable. That he had disciples. That Paul lived and was a Roman. That's what I'm talking about. Okay, Paul was not a disciple. He died. No, he... Well...

St. Paul? He had an interaction on the road to Emmaus. Okay. No, no, no. He would argue that he was because he had a personal interaction with...

But you and I, you as a non-believer would say it's not possible. Okay, I've got to give you the facts. These are facts. Jesus dies in 33 A.D. Paul was writing in the 50s. He was Saul of Tarsus. Yes. He had a vision on the road to Damascus. It was a cross in the sky. He never met Jesus. And in fact, one of the things that's so iffy about the Gospels is

is that the Gospels, which are written 20 years after St. Paul was writing, know way more about Jesus than Paul does. The voice that he was talking to. You have to believe in magic. You have to believe in magic for it to be true. Right. I accept that. I accept it too. I accept that you have to believe in magic. And I admit...

I do believe in magic. The voice he was talking to said, why do you persecute me? And he was trying to kill Christians. And I love my... This is Christ that he's talking about. So I believe that he did have an interaction, a personal interaction with the person that he died defending. Oh, I see. Okay, all right, great. And you know what? I love that. I...

don't have to agree with everybody on everything. I love my magic. I love my magician brothers. That's it. That's what it boils down to. This corner behind your ear. But that's what it boils down to. And I admit, I believe that that kind of magic is real. And if it works for you, I'm thrilled. Totally. But so did Paul. So you can't say that he wasn't a real historical figure. Paul was a historical figure. Paul was undeniably a historical figure. Not a contemporary of Jesus. Sort of.

Oh, I see. People would argue this with him in his own day, of course. His own peers. Not by our... Right. Not by those standards of apostleship. But yes, but I would say that he was because of that interaction. It's funny. We went to one of the stops in religious was Holy Land in Florida. It's like... Right, right.

It's basically Disneyland for Christians. And I talk to the, it's one of my favorite parts, the guy who plays Jesus in the thing, and there's a whole pageant where we see him get walking on the Villa de la Rosa with the seven stops and carrying the cross, and people are taking pictures and

But he, you know, I was asking him about the, I said, you know, when I was a little Catholic boy, the first thing they said is, you know, they were very proud of the fact that they were, this was a monotheistic religion, that we had one God. I think they were like thinking it was a big, you know, flex over the pagans and heathens with their many gods. They're so unsophisticated. And we have one God and his name is God. Right.

and he has a son, Jesus, who's also God. And I was like, wait, right away. I'm like, didn't you just tell me? Aren't we over the limit? And then he explained, he said, well, it's like...

ice and water and steam. It's all the same thing, but it's in different forms. And I told Larry the next day, I think it's in the movie, I'm like, you know, he had me for a second there. Like, I'm really, I'm going for this. At least you have an answer. Yeah, and that's a tough, man, that's a tough, it's a tough concept to understand. How can you manifest that?

three distinct identities and still be one. To be your own dad. Yeah. It's got to be, you know, come on. Yeah. A subservient manifestation to the, you know, to the spirit manifestation. That's hard. It's hard for people to understand. But that is, and that also is, that also is right. If you, you know, if you don't, if you deny that, you are not a Christian.

Right. Exactly. The Trinity is the very core. Stick with your brand. Exactly. It is the very core. Exactly. You must, again, you must believe in this kind of magic. I'm okay. When Frank does his thing, I'm like, you have to do that to be, you're the Pope.

You've got to be, you know, that phrase, you know, more Catholic than the Pope. Right, right. Nobody should be. Right, totally, totally. And, you know, he's got to, like, he's trying to move. I can tell he wants to move faster, but you've got to bring the flock with you. Not everyone in the parade is at the head of the parade. Right. You know, and that's kind of important. Totally. So...

Well, I'm glad we straightened that out. If we fixed religion in just a quick 30-minute soundbite. You can't fix it, but you can talk about it. And I do think it is morphing into, I mean, where you are with it, I'm very comfortable with because...

What's dangerous about it is when people are fundamentalist. That's when you get people flying planes into buildings thinking they're doing the right thing. Like none of those hijackers

thought they were doing the wrong thing. That's different than a psychopath. They thought they were doing the right thing. And so do suicide bombers and the people in Hamas. That's what's my biggest thing about religion is that. I'm 100% with you. I know you are. I think there are terrorists with a little t, and they don't realize that that's them.

And I would like to put a stop to that from my little corner of the world with what little platform I have. I just don't, I just, you know, that's not the way. I hope this isn't too personal, but it strikes me as odd that someone would have religion in their life and also a psychiatrist.

Really? Yes, because I feel like they are. Why? Because I feel like they're redundant in what they do. Like you used to go to confession and tell your sins to the priest. I did that many times. I did too as a Catholic, of course. Scared the shit out of me. And then you went to a psychiatrist.

If you were non-religious, as your confession. Well, yeah, the priest would tell you that was wrong, you're bad, say 15 Hail Marys, and the shrink would tell you, well, don't feel bad about it. But it was the same thing. But this is why I talk about this kind of stuff so openly. It's not the same ground they're covering? I personally feel like there are three things that are very important to me that we destigmatize and learn to have conversations about in a healthy, productive way. Faith, family, and mental health.

And mental health is something I've struggled with. You don't know much about me personally, but I've been very open with my struggles. I'm bipolar. I have ADHD. I've been diagnosed with that. And I'm a suicide survivor. That's when I was 35. 35? Yeah, not long ago. I'm 41 now. So why didn't it work? I, weirdly, while it was happening, I saw my kids, but they were grown. And they were totally calm and emotionless.

And they said, "Dad, we want you here. We want you to see all this." And I just-- so I climbed up out of it. But what the fuck made you so sad? Depression is crazy, dude. Oh, yes, it is. Depression is crazy. I never-- So it's just a chemical thing. Yeah.

Yeah, and you wouldn't believe the power that it has over you. It doesn't matter how many muscles you got. No, totally. And it is a chemical. I couldn't get out of bed. There were people, Mike Wallace was one of them. I think Dick Cavett was another one. You may not know these people there, but they were stars of an ilk in their day. Talked about how they were in therapy for years and years and years and years and years. And then they just gave him a pill.

It was just a chemical thing. You just have to pour something in the test tube that is lacking. And that is just, it's really a sad thing because it's so simple. And yet, yes, you can't beat it with your will or anything else. But if you don't, if you're also, I was not diagnosed with bipolar at the time, but I had been manic for nine months. And I was servicing all these, I was a slave to some- Did they give you something that-

I did. I got on medicine. Yeah. So that weekend, the weekend it happened, I called the doctor when it was done. And I said, I need to speak with somebody immediately. And I never talked to a psychiatrist about anything at that point. Anyway, I went in and took some tests and I was diagnosed with bipolar. And I was like, it was hard to accept at first because I didn't want to be labeled. But there's so much power there.

in understanding, you know, and having a label. There's so much power in having an understanding of what that diagnosis is. And now I've read dozens of books about it. I've spoken with professionals about it. I've talked to doctors. And, you know, just there's a way for me to manage this in a healthier way than feeling like there's only one gift for me left for me to give, which is suicide. You know what? I'm going to tell you something. Not that this was good that it happened.

But it actually is a great thing for your future. You know why? Because you're about to embark on this trip to stardom.

You're right at that moment. You've done a lot of work. You just said it. You're working so much, you came and have a house. Okay, you're at that thing. Now you're in the Guy Ritchie movie. You're moving into this. It's going to get really, really heady. And you're good looking, you're big. You're going to need something that makes you vulnerable because the audience, the reason they read the tabloids is not to read how good people are doing it.

Right. They want to feel like somebody who's a good looking, very successful guy

has some things in their life that actually are worse than mine and this will fit the bill perfectly. He was so sad, this guy, that he tried to kill himself. - But depression looks funny because what people don't realize is I was making tons of money at the time. I was very successful. It was not like things are not going well and I'm crumbling under the weight of society right now. This was the opposite.

It was a combination of this crippling...

you know, existential, like what's, when you get to the top of your ambitions, what's left for you? And also, you know, I was just, I had a falling out with some business partners and just think, you know, kind of a confluence of things that weren't going well. And so it was, it was- Excuse me, you weren't at the top of your ambitions. At that point in time, I was- Really? You never wanted to get even higher? Come on, you're just getting there now. You're not even there yet. I had been, you know, I'd been like-

You know, I'm more a creator than an actor, right? I like being at the genesis of ideas. I was, I had written a, I was ghostwriting for people, so I was writing manuscripts for people, selling screenplays, I was directing films, I was starring in a show. I mean, there was a lot, dude, I was taking all the boxes. Like, you kind of go like, there's not much higher, there's just different. But there's a level of doing that that you're about to get to, that you're doing those things you just ticked off on your hand,

On a better level. You're getting the best scripts. Totally. You're working with the best directors. This is what's happening now. I totally understand. You're getting your own shit made. You know, there is a level. So, you know, embrace it. How old are your kids? We just had a birthday yesterday. They were 11, 10, and 8. Oh. All boys. All boys. And all bunched together. That's good. Makes it easier, right? No? But I...

Yeah, I guess. If we're at a baby phase, perhaps. And you're going to have more? No, dude, no, it's not possible now. It's not possible? Oh, no. You might know Ben Mankiewicz as a host on Turner Classic Movies. Now you can hear Ben in intimate conversation with some of the most influential filmmakers and movie buffs of our time on the new podcast Talking Pictures from TCM and Maxx.

personal and honest conversations with the greats, Nancy Meyers, Mel Brooks, Emerald Fennell, and me. I did it too. I watched Reds and talked about it with Ben and had a blast. Listen to Talking Pictures on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'll be at the Jackie Gleason Theater in Miami Beach on March 23rd and March 24th at the Ruth Eckerd Hall in Clearwater, Florida, April 20th. Oh my gosh, 420 San Jose Center for the Performing Arts in San Jose. Perfect booking on that one.

see you there i totally get why everyone is apoplectic about the supreme court getting rid of our abortion rights because people just don't like kids anymore a lot of them and and they just want to make they want it to be their choice we are in a um despite what barbie says about living in a patriarchy we are not living in a patriarchy and women today are

definitely don't want that as a part of their life unless they want it. But I totally understand why Frank has to be out there going, "You must have a DaBaby." Right. And he wouldn't like this either. Anything that stops a DaBaby and getting a maid, we don't like. Yeah, DaBaby, it's a natural thing. And they always want more Catholics in the world. That's more baby. You can't make more Catholics without more babies.

So, you know, but I totally get it. And three is already a... You're the handful, dude. I travel a lot. Like, I'm on the road a lot. That's hard. That's tough. Also, kids are like dogs. Like, if you have two of them, they get along pretty good. But then three starts to become like a pack. Right. Yeah, don't get too big for your britches, dog. You know, and I feel like they could gang up on you. Yeah, they do. They do. They do. But they're great. And it's funny because... And they're okay with the nomadic life.

You know, not so-- no. No, it's hard. Because it's hard to make friends. How do you make a friend when you have no community?

But that may make them very strong individuals when they become one. Or psychos. Yeah, we've got three serial killers on the way. We're breeding them right now. I don't know. You're looking at it the way I try to look at it. It's glass half full, and this is going to work out to be a strength of theirs. They're well-traveled and connoisseurs of many things that most kids don't experience and

you know, have seen a lot of culture and their minds have been expanded in a way, like you can try to justify that, but at the end of the day, these are 10 year olds that want friends and they don't have any. - So, but let me tell you something. They're gonna, I'm looking into my crystal ball here. They're like at this age where they're, do they already have, do they have phones and social media? - Hell no.

Oh, good for you. For what? What could I do for you? Because I give a child a phone. Well, who's he going to call? He doesn't have any friends. Most parents do. Most parents want to have their kids on this electronic tab. Absolutely not. I mean, I've seen it not in life because I don't ever see children, but I've seen it in TV shows and movies. They all can't be mischaracterizing it where the parent is.

texts the child who's upstairs to come down to dinner. Get down here! Get down here! No, that's what they used to do. Yeah, that's what we need more of that. Much more of that. Or I didn't even have to have that. My town, God bless my Leave it to Beaver upbringing, my town had a six o'clock whistle.

And when I was out playing, always by myself with no supervision as it should have been and it should be again, but they would never allow that, a child alone, oh my God, call 911.

But I would hear the whistle and run home. My dad had a-- his superpower was this shrill-- Yeah. 18 miles away, this thing rings your ears. So your kids don't have phones. But OK, they're still going to be at a very formidable age in their life, like tweens and teenagers.

They're going to become very, very aware that dad is... Yeah, but dad's going to be like, you know... You're not like in the tabloids yet. Trust me, I read them. Well, I'm not, you know... I'm not a disruptive figure, so there's not much to talk about. But you're going to be. You're going to be. A disruptive figure? No, in the tabloids. No, people don't want to talk about me. You're wrong. You're wrong. Trust me, you're wrong. They're always looking for new tabloids.

You're going to be in the tabloids. I'm not interesting enough. I'm just, I just. Oh, shut up. Let me keep my head down. First of all, they don't give a shit if you're interesting. You don't have to be interesting. I'm fucking interesting. Nobody's more interesting than me. They don't cover me that much because I'm 68 and older and male and heterosexual and a million other things. You just need a couple. But I'm telling you, you're going to be in the tabloids and your kids, there's no way that

that they're not going to be aware of what's going on with your career and stuff. I'm just telling you, it's going to be an interesting period. They're well aware. It's disruptive, dude. We were waiting outside of a restaurant, waiting for a table, and we had probably 40 people come. Oh, I'm sure you get bombed all the time just from reaching. And my poor kids just get, you know, there's tunnel vision. It's nothing malicious. People don't realize it's theirs. Well, it's going to get worse. Well, I'm not going to give my phone. Worse or better. A phone for my child is not the salve that I'm looking for. So no, that's not a...

Not gonna be a problem, but yeah, they already know it's a hassle. - But you like being on sets. - I feel like that's what I do. That's like me on a set. - See, I hated it. - I am so at home. - When I like a show, I watch every minute of it. And I've watched every minute of it

The first two seasons. Thank you. Yeah, you don't have to thank me. Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thank you for watching. Well... It keeps us going. I wouldn't... I don't watch anything I don't like. I certainly wouldn't watch the whole thing. I'd sample something. Right. But, you know, I was at a dinner with people last night and my friends, and they were talking about...

One day they were watching, they were watching the one about Truman Capote that's on now, which I might enjoy. I could enjoy that too. And this other one about Karl Lagerfeld, was it? No, some designer back in the 40s. It sounded interesting also, but like, you know, sort of slow and intellectual. And they said, what are you watching? I said...

I'm watching Reacher and Hightown. It's on Starz. It's about, you know, the badass sheriff who's fucking the stripper who's actually the baby mom of the drug kingpin. Like, yeah, I like Hightown. I remember I watched Banshee.

remember banshee yeah that was like my kind of show like vikings yeah like it's tv real highbrow don't tell me what i should be watching they call it dad tv which is i don't really understand no but your show like the the the uh

Plot resolution, you know the sticking the landing. I always say this I was talking to somebody the day some director here and Like it's all about the ending anybody can think of a good idea for a movie or a show It's how you end it right and like the resolution I thought it was very clever of where you got, you know, you start with a mystery at the beginning Like you know what whatever it was and then by the end. Oh, it makes sense. I

Yeah. It makes sense and it's the onion is slowly being unraveled as we go and you're giving the audience enough to be going what's in the next scene. Right. But not too you know not too much where it's obvious but not too little so it's murky. Just a hair's breadth ahead of the audience. I'm not a fan of murky. Yeah yeah no just it's a fine line. Yeah it's a fine line. Yeah. And then some kicking ass. And then a couple punches.

No, I like the relationship with you and the little blonde girl in the first one. I love... Lula Fitzgerald. She played Roscoe. She was great. One of the best, probably will be the best actress I've ever worked with for as long as I live. She was so intensely... Well, I mean... She was so engaging. She was good, but come on, let's not be ridiculous. You have a long career. That's not the only thing she's going to do. No, no, she... I got a taste of it. She's going to do great things. Yes, I think she was great. She's phenomenal. I'm not arguing with you, but...

Okay, great. The greatest actor you'll ever work with. Sarah Bernhardt would come back from the dead. This chick would be better. But I kind of need a love story, some kind of love story, to keep me interested for a whole series. And so that was a good one. Okay, yeah. You know, just the way it evolved. Well, you've got to hold loosely to those love stories in Reacher because they ain't going to last very long. What? It's an anthology. Well...

We'll see. We'll see who bless who. Yeah. You know, you never know. Totally. But you're good now. I mean, did the shrink help with that? Yeah, well, that's what, yeah, I guess that's what I was going to say was, you know, there are things that psychiatrists offer.

That it's not really religion's purpose, you know? And so there's a confluence of both cognitive therapy and science. You know, with medicine, it's come a long way. And when you put those together, you get some much-needed help. So we've got to do both, you know? Yeah, I mean, I went to a psychiatrist a couple of times very briefly. It was more like couples therapy at the behest of a psychiatrist.

you know, someone I was in a relationship with. Right, right. Did you want to fix it? And it was all I could do to not laugh out loud. I mean, I know it helps a lot of people, but it was just so much of it was just so LOL. The idea that... If you don't go through like nine psychiatrists, though, trying to find the right one, you're doing it wrong. Is that right? That's it. You got to find the one that's for you. Just like dating, you wouldn't marry the first person that you date.

What, like the first, no, you go through 15, 20 relationships? But the idea that someone who I'm just meeting now could in any way know me better than I know me, it's like there's so many things about me that I am just such an expert on and that psychiatrists really would not be. I just, I just. But you've got a micro version of yourself. You're zoomed in because you're in there.

And there could be somebody who's a really well-educated, well-qualified individual to step back and help see the macro and see like there's a plot hole over here. There's a little – we need to fill the soil in over here. It's getting a little sparse, the grass. And we can pay attention to that area more. And sometimes it's important to have an unbiased third party who's well-qualified to do that for you.

Yeah, or you might be digging up some shit that is better left buried. Oh, come on. No. You don't think anything is better? Nobody has benefited in the history of mankind from packing your dirt down harder. That is not necessarily true. You do not know that. You can't pull anything from the espresso if that shit's tamped down too hard. You've got to loosen it up a little bit. In many cases, yes. Yes, you're certainly right.

that if you bury ideas and if you buried trauma and you bury what you really think about something, first of all, it couldn't...

appear somewhere else in your physiology. It will for sure manifest itself somewhere else in an ugly way until it's... But people also just want to pick on scabs that just let it heal over. You can't do anything more about it. And just to keep the wound open. No, I don't think a well-qualified professional would want to just...

pick a scab to see it. I don't know about that. I think people, they think it's smarter to just always somehow keep the... You know who does that? And for them, it's actually understandable. Actors.

Because that's your instrument. An actor is never any good unless they have some turmoil inside that they're working off of. Am I wrong about that? I don't think so. Here's the thing. One of the first rooms I ever went in as an actor, I was a semi-finalist on American Idol season three. That was my first time to LA. American Idol? I was a singer.

So I was flown out for that. You're a singer, too? Yeah. And that was my first love of music. Oh, you're going to go back to that after you're a movie star. No, I don't know. Oh, yeah. I found my passion. I love filming. No, you're going to be like J-Lo in many different ways. And then you're going to marry Ben Affleck. That is the goal. That's actually been my mission for years, being Al Affleck. Yeah, I, no, oh my gosh.

No, the first room I went in, I had somebody who was interested in repping me because I was on American Idol and was making my way into the business. And the first question was, what kind of trauma do you have? And I was like, oh, I had a pretty normal life. I'm not interested.

Why? Like, I can act? Like, no. The good actors are the ones with trauma. And if you don't have any, you're not going to be interesting on screen. And I just want to say...

I think that's such horseshit. - But you got it. You do have trauma and you're good on screen. So why are we arguing? - Wow. - Right? - I wasn't like, you know, everybody's got trauma in their own, to some degree, in their own respect. But I had a pretty lovely upbringing. I mean, issues with parents and narcissism and all that. But I was not like, there are people with real trauma and they're real broken and it does not make them a better actor.

Okay, maybe not. But in your case, I'm going to start this story. I was in my mid-30s. And then we're going to freeze frame and go to 10 years earlier because we have to do that in every show. I was totally fine. Please don't do that in Reacher. I was totally fine. Will you promise me that? Are you doing more Reachers? Of course. Okay, so...

Don't do that thing, the 10 years earlier, six months earlier. We do it all the time. We do flashbacks all the time. Everybody has to do that. We have to do these flashbacks. Why can't we just tell the story? I'm with you. No, but you're not a heavy flashback show. Your flashbacks are good because they're within the context of it. It's natural. But that whole, like, wait, where are we now? Right. Is it... Right. You know...

No, I like that you brought back the dude, the square dude, who was a little bit in the second season. Malcolm Goodman. Yes, Finley. It was a perfect use of him. Great. It was great. He's the best. And then where does Reacher go in season three?

Season three is based on the book Persuader, one of the most beloved books in the series. Oh, so you're like James Bond. You have the books to work off of. That's exactly right. Oh, that's awesome. We're approaching 30 books, so I could do this until I'm... The funny thing about all these kind of shows or movies that are serials is like...

How does the guy just keep running into trouble? There was a show on called Murder, She Wrote. Don't make a fucking A-string. It's a famous show. The black and white? It was not in black and white. Was it in Technicolor yet? Yeah, when you drop dead at 49 of a heart attack.

because you're too Sasquatchy. Murder, she wrote. Remember that one? Yeah, bigger people live less. For sure. My heart's going to give out quick. Exactly. I'm with you. And then you'll have real vulnerability. And then you'll be in the tabloids. I'll be begging you for a defibrillator. You're not going to... But Murder, She Wrote, it was this huge...

I guessed it on it twice. And she lived in this small town. It was Angela Lansbury. She lived in this small New England town.

And it was on for like eight, nine years. I mean, like, think of the amount of murders that had to happen in a tiny New England town. But goddammit, like, die hard. Like, they did five of those. Like, really? Once again? He's running into a terrorist? This motherfucker has the worst luck in the world. There are decades worth of rumors. We want that. And does he have a love interest this time?

Every year? Please. He's the American James Bond. Exactly. New romances everywhere he goes. Yeah, because he really liked that little Roscoe, but he didn't like it more than his nature. Right. At least he can admit that. Hey, I've never been married. I'm more reacher than you, in a way. There you go. But yeah, I do understand that, like...

Part of maybe that's one thing I really relate to that character is, you know,

It's all about... I think it's all about that, like, is your life in tomorrow. I can't ever be happy with what happened, even though I have wonderful memories. They're gone. They're gone. And so it only tortures me if I can think about something that was great in the past that is not going to also happen in the future. Totally. So you were married when you tried to... I was. I had married with kids. Right. I thought...

I thought that it was the best gift that I could give them at the time was freeing them of the burden of myself. And that's what a lot of people that, you know, people are, you know, those that are left behind are,

confounded by suicide, how could they do this? Like, they had a loving family, they had a loving wife or kids or whatever. How could they do this? I can assure you, with what faculties they had working, they felt like it was the most loving thing that they could do. Right. And that's what's so difficult about it. Because in the confusion of depression, that lack of logic and reason takes hold and it seems logical. That's a hallmark of bipolar as well, is...

a clinical lack of insight. So how does your wife deal with, like, when you go out? Like, I mean, I know guys like you. The chicks are always, like, trying to... And chicks have no shame. They don't care if you're with somebody. That makes it even better. Yeah. You know? How does she deal with that? She's intensely strong. We both came from a small town, and...

And I think you say to yourself, like, I'll pursue this career, but you can't imagine what the consequences of success in an industry like this bring. It's going to get worse. And when you have, you know, how do I say this? When you have sex icons throwing themselves at you, trying to destroy your marriage, actively trying to destroy your marriage, you know, you bet your ass she's damn strong.

Because you don't ask for that. You can very well not invite that in your life and still be dealing with people trying to actively destroy your marriage. Sounds like you need a friend to hang with you. I think I need more people. I'll call you next time. A guy who could take the overflow. Take them off your hand. Make your wife feel better. And also satisfy...

Yeah, well, I'm sure, but I think you're probably also being modest. I think it wouldn't work if you didn't help and participate. I mean, you can't be iffy on that. You can't be like, I know people...

You know, who are like, well, you know, I flirt. I just never really do it. It's like, yeah, that's not good either. Yeah. No, no. In a way, that's worse. And that's not real. That's not a real relationship. That's not a real relationship. Well, if that's if that's who you are and you're you're genuinely like entertained by this idea of playing with fire.

That's not real. That's not fair to the other person. I genuinely, genuinely, deeply love and want a marriage. I love my wife. I want a marriage. I want my family to be intact. I fight for it. I fight bipolar. I fight mania. I fight my own personal demons and my own manly primal desires. It's all out there, and we talk about it, and we just...

We go to war. Right. We go to war. And it fucking is a war, dude. It's a war. It is? Yeah, dude. This industry that I'm in, I'm talking about. Oh, the industry. With what comes at you, what pulls at you, what tries to destroy your marriage. Oh, I see. It's all of it. It's real. It's real. Right. And so we really, really work hard. Yeah, I can see. Just to stay married. Wow. And it takes a concerted effort. Yeah.

Absolutely, dude. But I mean it. Nutty. I mean it. I think it's nutty. No, it's so worth it though. But it's not for everybody. And I think there's a problem, a little bit of a problem in our society where we say that the model for healthy, successful, joyful living is a married couple.

and we demote this idea of a single individual into second class. That's not right. That's not true. There are a lot of very, very meaningful, purpose-filled lives that are single individuals. You're reading my lines. There. You are not second class because you've decided to be single. Well, thank you. It's true. And we're talking about the Catholic Church and institutions. We have been told for so many years by large institutions that

the model for successful, healthy living is a married couple. That's not true. You can have a deeply meaningful life and be single. Of course. I mean, it's all just about personal taste. It's the chip that's put in our brain when we're born. I mean, you can laugh at me, and I'm perfectly fine with that, because I laugh at them. And to me, it's preposterous. It's ridiculous. It's like, really? I mean, don't you get tired of that person seeing the same human being every day? Like,

Oh, that's funny. It's so funny. Auntie Mame said the world's a banquet and most poor sons of bitches are starving. That's so funny. No, I know. It's just different. I think there's something so deeply satisfying about a love that endures time. There is. And I've had that too. Like, oh, it's just...

Oh, I crave it, dude, with every fiber of my being. Like, no. Yeah, there are other interesting people in the world, but I just think I found my person. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, you should definitely send her this podcast because, I mean, you're definitely going to get... She couldn't care less about listening to my podcast anymore. No, but like this tribute to her. It's very, very much become about connection. You know, like I have a deep desire to connect with...

with her entire person, her body, mind, soul, right? And it's become this thing where like-- I'm telling you. You can look in the eyes of somebody that you deeply care about, and there's-- you just-- it's this act of like, I can't possibly get any closer to you than I am right now, and I wish I could. And it's this beautiful moment.

of connection. That's really truly what it is. And I think, I think when people discover that that's what the potential, you know, that's, that's where the potential lies in that kind of intimacy. If people haven't discovered this from themselves yet, maybe explore this idea of it truly being about how deeply can we connect in this moment instead of getting ourselves off or being gratifying to some self-serving degree. I think that's when it becomes special. And it took me a long time. I mean, we had, we had to run into some really hard times for us to really appreciate that.

That's what it is. And what are hard times all about? Oh, it's hard. You're going to fight. And do you ever really forget where you buried a hatchet?

But I think people have said variations of this, but I think love is knowing exactly where those weapons lie and deciding not to use them. You know where you buried all these hatchets. Right. And you've got to trust each other. That is a great definition of love. Yeah. Yes. We definitely know where to...

where we can hurt each other, you know, but we choose not to because we care deeply. But things are good. Things are good, yeah, but it's, you know, this business is hard, man, and doing life, building a family on the road together is hard, and trying to know when to give each other space to, like, you know, connect with community. Like our kids, for example, we put them in school for like a semester. My prediction, you're going to buy a house within three years.

I think this-- I think we have to. I think you have to. We have to figure out a way to do it, because-- I think you-- Our kids need it. You know, our kids need that. Well, and you're going to need it. You're going to find, I think, that you're going to like it. You're going to like, OK, this is home. I don't know. I'm a pretty-- I'm a raving mad artist. I'm a lone wolf. But my kids and my wife will like it. I am too, but we all mellow. Freud said there's only two things in life, love and work.

I put my eggs in, well, I can count on the work, 'cause that's me. 'Cause you can count on yourself. I can count on myself. The love is super important, and I can't live without it, but...

But that's not going to be, I see that I can't count on that as much. Now this is, again, deeply psychological. Hell yeah. Deeply psychological. Hear me out. Hear me out. Yes. Okay, so I'm working with Jason Hall, who wrote American Sniper. Incredible writer. I just watched it again. Incredible writer. Terrific movie. We're developing a project together. Wow. And he said it really beautifully. He said, you know, Joseph Campbell's entire hero's journey can be summed up like this. The protagonist's refusal to release.

The refusal to release. That's the hero's journey, right? Release what? That's exactly the question you have to answer with your script. The Kraken? Right. You've done that more than once. Refusal to release. What is it? We've got to find what that is. What have we refused to release? For you, could it be...

that you've found a safe harbor in the work. There's not much work you have to do there because the fire is ignited and there's not a challenge there. There's nothing really to refuse to release. But in relationship, you have to give up your power and you have to give up control and safety and the feeling of security. - I'm a control freak. - Control freak. - See, I can't do that. - Can't release control. - I don't want to.

I was in a relationship when I was from like 32 to 37, like the exact time I should have gotten married if you were going to get married. Right. But yeah, so I've been down the path. And then I've been in other, you know, serious, you know, that was five years. Other ones lasted like three, three, two. So I know the drill. I know what it's like.

And I know the sacrifices and I know the gains. I know that the, you know, it's very nice to have someone who you know they have your back. And, you know, you can, you know, you have security. But I feel like this tension between security and excitement will never go away. And for me, look, Alan, water rolls downhill. It's always going to roll toward excitement. Interesting. Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. I'm so curious. I know. It's interesting to talk to people who are not like you, right? Oh, yeah. It is because we're not like each other. But that's it. I mean, like, you know, people always say to me my whole life, you know, don't let your dick rule your life. Don't think with your dick. And I always said, why not? It's going to win anyway.

I feel like my dick is like the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. They're gonna get out. You know, you can try to write the end of this movie ten different ways, but there's only one way this movie can end. The dinosaurs get out! Right. That's hilarious. That is hilarious. But you're a better man than I, because you're more mature.

and all that stuff. But you're going to be tested. I know I have to let you go because you've got a plane. And by the way, thank you for doing this. Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate it.

I came here to do this. I know you're always on the road, so I can't be that big-headed about it. You've got to be somewhere that's not where you're supposed to be at any moment. So you put this on your stop, and I know you've got to get back on the road. But I really did enjoy your show. I don't enjoy that many shows. And I wanted to do this because I was like, well, I'm going to get this guy right before he's too big to do it.

because he's going to be too big to do it, but I hope you won't forget us. I wanted to do this. I wanted to do this. I enjoy the conversations you have. Yeah, I appreciate that. And I'm deeply curious. I'm fascinated by you and this format. This was more fun than a barrel of monkeys. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. I did. I was going to ask you one other thing before I went into that, but I forgot. Should I do my...

I'm at the Hobby Center for the Performing Arts. So smooth, Alan, isn't it? In Houston, March 2nd. March 3rd, the Performing Arts Center in El Paso. Oh, this means your show's going to air very quickly, so it'll be right after your movie. What's the name of your movie that just came out? Which one? Ordinary Angels. It's out today. Ordinary Angels. Yesterday, for some reason. February 23rd. And then I'll be March 23rd at the Jackie Gleason Theater in Miami. Did you ever get to any of these? Did you ever get to Miami? I did. Just went there with my wife.

Let's fucking do Miami together. Tell me when you're going. I'm there. March 23rd at the Jackson Police Theater. You're always on the road. Get your hobo stick. That's what I picture you. You have a hobo stick with the clothes. That was a funny bit in the thing where you in the first...

run where you never get the pie. Right. And by the way, I waited all season to actually have that pie because they kept going, would you like a piece before you go for the day? And I'm, no, no. I'm going to wait until the very end of the season. It was the worst pie I think I've ever had in my entire life. Amen. That was great. Thank you, brother. Thanks for coming. My pleasure. All right. All right, man. Amen.