Partnering with Jean Oelwang
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Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.

Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Cheaters and Backstabbers. I'm Shadi Diaz. And I'm Kate Robards. And we are New York City stand-up comedians and best friends. And we love a good cheating and backstabbing story.

So this is a series where our guests reveal their most shocking cheating stories. Join us as we learn how to avoid getting our hearts broken or our backs slashed. Listen to Cheaters and Backstabbers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Welcome to the CINO Show. I'm your host, Cino McFarlane. I'm an addiction specialist. I'm a coach. I'm a translator. And I'm God's middleman. My job is to crack hearts and let the light in and help everyone shift the narrative. I want to help you wake up and I want to help you get free. Most importantly, I don't want you to feel alone. Listen to the CINO Show every Wednesday on iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm really excited about this episode because I get to talk to Jean Olwang. Jean is remarkable. She started her career as an executive in telecom and mobile phones, and she broke every glass ceiling. But after 20 years doing that, she realized she wanted to do something bigger with her life. And so she started working in philanthropy.

She's the president and founding CEO of Virgin Unite, which basically houses all the philanthropies of the Virgin company. She's also a B-team leader and sits on the advisory council of elders. But what's most important about Jean is as she was meeting all these remarkable people doing remarkable things in the world, she discovered a pattern that in every single case there was a partnership.

that was at the basis of their ability to work at remarkable scale, but also find great fulfillment in their lives. And this is why I wanted to publish her book. She understands that if any of us wants to do something worth doing and find great fulfillment while we're doing it, we have to work together. This is a bit of optimism. After years of working in philanthropy,

and doing good and running Virgin Unite, which is sort of the umbrella for all the Virgin charities, you came to discover that these remarkable people have a secret power. All these people that we admire, write books about, read articles about, we're all fascinated with, that they all do something that gives them their secret power, which is... Partnerships. And, you know, I was just amazed by watching these great people and seeing how they became who they were in the world.

And I realized that it was because of the people they surrounded themselves with and the people that they built really deep connections with. I think this is such an important conversation, especially in this moment in time, because we have made heroes out of CEOs and these kinds of people as if they're lone wolves. I think as a nation, especially in the United States, we've over-indexed on rugged individualism.

And as we see younger generations coming up, they struggle to form, their words, not mine, deep, meaningful relationships. And here, what you have said is the ability to form partnerships literally is the thing

that distinguishes the great from the good? Yeah, it's the thing that allows us to have meaningful, purposeful lives, as well as it is the thing that allows us to make a bigger impact in the world. And you're right, Simon. I mean, I think from the time we're a super young age, we are pushed towards being hyper individualistic. So we've created this world where loneliness has become one of the largest problems of our time, bigger than obesity, bigger than smoking.

because we've pushed people into thinking that they have to be the one, they have to be the superhero, they have to save the day. And we almost have to step back and figure out how we unlearn that hyper-individualism and how we relearn how to become hyper-connected. Oh, I love that term, hyper-connected. What did you learn about yourself in writing this? Did you change in any way? So for me, it completely transformed the way I look at the world, completely transformed my lens on

from looking at a relationship on a more transactional basis, for example, to looking at relationships and every relationship and every partnership I have as something that could change me, could change them for the better, and most importantly, how we could come together as a partner to make a bigger difference in the world. Can you share a specific example? As we went through this, we weren't just interviewing partnerships. We were also interviewing these amazing collectives

that had done some of the greatest things in the world, some of the greatest human achievements, like the community who closed the ozone hole. And this process shifted the whole way I look at how we need to tackle the issues that we're facing in the world right now. And how the first thing you need to do is build these deep connections at the center that become the connective tissue and the scaffolding for us to really build these collaborations.

If you go into a room now and you ask, who knows who discovered and closed the ozone hole, you will have almost no one raise their hand. And that's because it wasn't a single superhero. It was a collection of friends at the very center. And it started in 1974 with these two incredible friends, Sherry Rowland and Mario Molina, these two scientists in a small lab in California who discovered that CFCs were destroying the ozone layer.

And Sherry and Mario felt so passionate that they had to get this message out to the world that they quickly published an article in Nature and they thought the whole world would react. And the opposite happened. $8 billion CFC industry started to attack them. Slowly, all of Sherry's speaking engagements were pulled out from under his feet. And this didn't last for just a day or a week or a month. This lasted for a decade.

And I had the good fortune to meet with Mario before he passed. And I asked him, I said, how on earth did you weather these attacks for so long? And he said one word. He simply said friendship. And it was their friendship and really their complementary skills that allow us to go out and enjoy the sunshine today. Can you share a story of one of the people that you've met along your journey that

who may have gone down that rugged individual path and then discovered that partnership was the thing, that they found salvation in the partnership. We interviewed over 60 partnerships of all types, friends, romantic, business partners, family members,

And they all had two things in common. One was the longevity of their partnership. And the second was they use their partnership to leverage greater change in the world. I mean, I personally also went down that path, which is why I wrote the book, because I was focused on for 20 years building mobile phone companies and focused on how do I break as many glass ceilings as I possibly can. And then when I started working with a group called The Elders that was set up by Nelson Mandela and Archbishop Tutu and others, I

again, I started to see they were who they were because of the relationships they surround themselves with. And for me, that was a massive awakening call about that was a real meaning of life. And so some of the people that I interviewed, like you had Peter Chernin and Ray Chambers, for example, both unbelievably successful business people, unbelievable. And then both of them in different ways came to this focus on purpose in their life. And then they found each other

And they started this organization called Malaria No More. And the reason it was so successful was because of their partnership and their deep friendship and their connection. And that, when I focused on interviewing them, was the thing that they said was most meaningful in their life, was building Malaria No More together and most joyful in their life as well.

So what was it about Malaria No More that they could only do together that these two extremely successful people who understood logistics and teams and all of this stuff were probably incapable of doing if they had tried to do it alone, or at least to the degree they did it? They'll be the first ones to acknowledge that they never could have done it on their own. And what they talk about is how they both bring different skill sets to the picture. And, you know, Ray is...

so focused on delivery, making something happen. Peter brought more of an operational side. Ray brought that ability to go out and connect and build these incredible networks, these incredible consortiums. He had worked with the UN as well, and they came together. And then they also talk a lot about how their deep connection at the center of malaria no more was a start of building an even bigger collaboration that was able to change the world.

And they couldn't have done it without each other. And I think one of the things that was so beautiful about their interview was they also just talked about how it was the most joyful thing in their life and that they could almost lean on one another when the other one was down, the other one brought the other one up. And there was this partnership of just making sure that they never, ever gave up.

And they never will give up until they die around ending malaria in the world. And, you know, I think, Simon, if I hadn't gone through this process of interviewing these 60 partnerships and really understanding what makes Deep Connection work, I don't think I would have found my life partner, my husband, Chris. This book and this process of this interviewing and understanding the richness of Deep Connection opened my heart and allowed me to have a much richer relationship with him.

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I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words. Yeah.

that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So in full transparency, this book is one of the books from Optimism Press, which is my imprint with Penguin. I'm so honored and proud to publish your book. And one of the things that was so appealing and drew me to it so much was that you wanted to call it partnering, not partnership.

Partnership is a static thing and you maybe have one of those, but it's this act of partnering. It's these actions you take to partner and that you can have multiple partners and it's an ongoing skill, right? It's not something you learn and then you're done.

Can you share one of the actions that is required for partnering that is perhaps the simplest for most people to grasp and maybe even implement out of the gate? Yeah. And you're spot on that this is something that's constantly evolving. And I think we've been so pushed towards hyper-individualism that we've forgotten how to connect. And so these six degrees of connection are grounding in the how, how we connect. And

And probably your answer to the one about what's the simplest one would probably be, it's not the easiest one to do, but I think it's one of the most important ones we need to grasp is celebrate friction. And, you know, when I interviewed Andre and Bertrand, two amazing individuals who did the first solar flight around the world, they talked about this beauty of they love when they disagree because when they disagree, they called it the sparkles. It means they're going to learn something new.

And so the celebrate friction is about how do you turn those moments of friction into something where you're going to learn something new, you're going to become better. And they love to say, it's not about competing with one another. It's about competing with yourself to become the best version of yourself.

And so many of these stories, these rich stories from the 60 interviews that I did had incredible ways of how they celebrated friction. For example, one was around come to every conversation thinking about what if the other person is right? So don't sit in your own space thinking you're right, but think about what if the other person is right and come to that point of friction from that mindset and

Another wonderful bit of wisdom that came out was always go in thinking there's a third way. Never think you're locked into two positions, but thinking about how through discussion and through open-mindedness and through deep, deep listening, how you can find that third way. Or like Ben and Jerry had a wonderful one where they talked about that their friendship was their highest priority and they were never going to let anything break their friendship. That was the fundamental. And

And so they had something amazing called veto power, where if one of them for any reason had such a strong feeling that they could never agree with something the other person was saying, they would have a veto card that they could hold up. And they said they have done that, used that very, very rarely, but it's allowed them again not to get stuck in this position of conflict.

And that whole concept of celebrate friction, I think there was something about like 12 principles we put into the book around how you can celebrate friction to turn it into the sparkles and again, compete with yourself to become a better human being. Was there a partnership that you explored that you struggled with? Like when...

when you saw their partnership, like you didn't understand it, you didn't quite get it, you know, intellectually understood it, but it was like, I don't get this one. In the early days, we were talking about this book. You really encouraged me to go out and find people from deeply opposing sides, deeply opposing. And, you know, there was a few before I went in that I was thinking, okay, this is going to be interesting. I'm one, I wonder if I will be biased toward one direction or the other. And one, one conversation that I just had,

adored, but I think I went in with an unclear expectation on whether I would adore it, was Cornel West and Robert George. And they're both extraordinary academics and scholars. One is a social democrat, one is a republican, and they both have deeply opposing views on many topics, but they were able to come together and just have this extraordinary friendship. They talked a lot about that sometimes if someone sees them in conversation sitting in a room,

They will think that they're just sitting there quietly, but what they're really doing is trying to absorb what the other person just said, to really listen, because they have so much respect for the other person that even though they may have a deeply opposing view, they want to hold the space to really understand why that person has expressed that view. And, you know, when their interview finished, I'll never forget, they looked at me and they both said, go out and find a friend that unsettles you.

And these partnerships and relationships aren't just about finding people that look like us, act like us. Sometimes the ones that are the richest and teach us the most are the ones that are most radically different. And also that unsettle us and challenge our views. And, you know, there was another partnership that was just amazing. And again,

This one I didn't understand because I just simply couldn't believe it was true. And this was Azeem Kamisa and Plez Felix. Very, very, very sadly, this was probably now about 30 years ago, Plez's grandson had actually shot and killed Azeem's only son in a gang prank. And rather than have bitterness...

and never speak to Plez. Azim brought Plez and Plez's family into his home. Plez and Azim then build this extraordinary friendship and then started a foundation together to stop kids from killing kids. And when Plez's grandson, who had shot Azim's only son, came out of prison, I think it was just 10 years ago, Azim hired him.

So that he could also go to schools to talk about how we need to make sure that we build bridges across difference, that we're not driven by fear. We're not driven by hatred and bitterness. And we hold that space for love. And for me, you know, they talk a lot about one of the things that kills respect and trust is judgment.

and how you need to open the space up for not judging and coming back together. And just an unbelievable story of forgiveness and friendship. You know, one of the six degrees is this ecosystem of virtues. And in there is this concept of unshakable respect. And Uzo, who runs the Africa Center, Uzo Awele, he said something really beautiful around, if you don't listen to someone, it's telling them they don't exist.

Oh, that's good. It's beautiful. It was just such a beautiful comment. Incredible wisdom within that statement. And he was talking about that deep listening. And that's where the respect comes from. That's where the trust comes from. I used to say up until this day, there's a difference between listening and waiting for your turn to speak.

And I think that's still very sort of egocentric, right? It's about me doing the listening or me waiting for my turn to speak. But because we're talking about partnerships and we're talking about something that's interrelational, I think this is even more powerful. I'm going to use this from now on, which is by not listening, you're telling the other person they don't matter. When you don't listen, you're telling the other person that they don't exist. Hearing that forces not for you to go quiet, but for you to do the active action of listening.

Yeah, it's one of the deepest ways you can show your respect to someone. Watching Ben and Jerry over the last, whatever, 17 years now, I've never seen one smirk on their face or rolling of the eye or any type of body language that ever undermines their respect and their trust for each other. And so it's those small things that we do every single day that really bring to life this ecosystem of virtues of trust, respect, belief.

generosity, gratitude. You know, it's, it's a small things that we do. And I remember someone in Virgin once saying to me that in every single interaction, we can either win or lose the culture. We can either show someone that we love them and build a culture that really is human, or we can do the opposite and destroy the culture in a moment.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words.

That I've said, like, in my head for, like, 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Cheaters and Backstabbers. I'm Shadi Diaz. And I'm Kate Robards. And we are New York City stand-up comedians and best friends. And we love a good cheating and backstabbing story. Welcome.

So this is a series where our guests reveal their most shocking cheating stories. Join us as we learn how to avoid getting our hearts broken or our backs slashed. Listen to Cheaters and Backstabbers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. So, I mean, basically what we're doing here is we're saying parents, you have to do a better job. Schools, you have to do a better job. Companies, you have to do a better job of setting incentives and creating a culture in which people will share information.

and collaborate and partner rather than be preoccupied with their own success, their own bonuses, their own careers. To your point, there was an amazing interview I did with Sangu Deli, who built an investment firm in Africa.

He started it with his three brothers and the entire company has shared prosperity. So whether it's the person that cleans the windows, whether it's the person that serves food, whether it's the secretary, whether it's the CEO, they all share in the prosperity of the company. And he said that has made such a big difference because they feel ownership. And that came from his mom because there was something beautiful that his mother did with the three brothers where she didn't reward them as individuals. She rewarded them

as three brothers. So when one was successful, all three were rewarded. But also when one made a mistake, all three were told that they needed to do better. And it was that sharing as brothers that A, built an incredible relationship between the three, but made them want to cooperate and made them want to work together. You talk about Ben and Jerry, how they never gave any language. There was no any body language that gave away no disrespect for the other that that that in quite the opposite showed respect for the other.

Have you ever heard the, I don't know who came up with it, but there was a famous relationship therapist, I guess, who said that he can tell in the first five minutes if the relationship is going to survive or not.

He says he meets a couple and he can tell in five minutes, no matter how much therapy he gives them, whether this is going to survive or not. And if one starts talking and the other one rolls their eyes, he says it's over. It's done. There's nothing he can do because all respect has broken down. Yeah. And that's why these partnerships had these virtues. Basically, there were six virtues that came up again and again and again.

And as soon as you roll your eye or you turn your back on someone, you again, you're telling them, as we spoke about before, that you don't exist or that I don't care about you. And there becomes this imbalance.

imbalance in the relationship that is really hard to repair over time if that continues. And all 60 of these partnerships, you know, I was just thinking when you were talking, I can't remember a moment where I saw one of them do anything that would undermine the other partner. And it was super interesting, Simon, because when I started this process 15 years ago, I remember everyone saying to me, you have to find the fights. You have to find when people are just, you know, going at each other and how they get out of that.

And I tried really hard in the first set of interviews to find that conflict. And what was really beautiful, and some of these partnerships I know really well, so I know there was conflict at times, but what was really beautiful was something that I now call positive amnesia, because these partnerships had that friction.

But they were able to forget about it and they didn't hold it. So you don't see a role of an IRA because they don't hold that disrespect. They they work through it. They figured out how to celebrate that friction and then they moved on. And so you didn't have that as a theme and met in any of the interviews I did.

Are there any questions that you have? Yeah, I think Simon, you have this ability to succinctly and you just helped me so much succinctly get this idea in the beginning to a place where it was something that could grow and build. What attracted you to this book? I like to say that there's an entire section in the bookshop called self-help, but there's no section in the bookshop called help others.

And what we need in this world is a section called Help Others. We've all learned the skills of putting ourselves first. I think we as a society are lacking the skills on how to put others first. And the concept of service and giving and suffering and sacrificing for greater good so that others can join in that success or planting a seed that someone else may enjoy the shade of that tree. I think that we're a little bit out of balance.

And so that you had exposure to so many remarkable people and remarkable partnerships, and more important, that you were able to discern patterns in all of these partnerships. And they're so different from creative to business to changing the world stuff to sometimes opposite personalities. They're so different that you were able to discern that these patterns meant that we could learn something about how to partner better, that we could learn how to help others better. And that more than anything else,

profoundly drew me to want to help you tell your story. Thank you so much, Simon, for believing in this book. I love it. And I have it here. For anyone who wants to learn more about how you can partner, you can pick up Partnering, Forge the Deep Connections that Make Great Things Happen by Gina Wang.

at fine bookstores everywhere and some not so fine ones. Jean, you're so magical, so inspiring. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell us about it. I love it. Thank you. Thank you so much, Simon. Thanks for all you do in this world. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Until then, take care of yourself. Take care of each other.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.

Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Cheaters and Backstabbers. I'm Shadi Diaz. And I'm Kate Robards. And we are New York City stand-up comedians and best friends. And we love a good cheating and backstabbing story.

So this is a series where our guests reveal their most shocking cheating stories. Join us as we learn how to avoid getting our hearts broken or our backs slashed. Listen to Cheaters and Backstabbers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Andrea Gunning, host of the all-new podcast There and Gone. It's a real-life story of two people who left a crowded Philadelphia bar, walked to their truck, and vanished.

A truck and two people just don't disappear. The FBI called it murder for hire. But which victim was the intended target and why? Listen to There and Gone South Street on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪