Insane Vacations with Mike Reiss
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Mike Reese is one of the great comedy writers of our modern day. He's been on The Simpsons since the beginning.

He worked on Carson, he worked on ALF back in the 80s, and he's worked on Despicable Me and many other movies too. But some of his best material is when he talks about his own life and his vacations to places like North Korea and even visiting the Titanic. This is a bit of optimism. ♪

Mike Reese, thanks for joining me on the podcast. You are famous to most people who will know you as one of the writers from the TV show, ALF. You'd be surprised.

Actually, most people will probably more likely know you as being one of the original writers from The Simpsons. So most people, when they go on vacation, they want to do something exotic. They think Hawaii. And if you're really adventurous, maybe Vietnam.

But you, you and your wife, you decided we want to go on a vacation to see the Titanic. That's right. So what? How did you even pull that off? Like that's not like a tourist destination. Yes. I don't know how far to back this up. My wife and I have been to 134 countries.

And then things like that, like we've been to the North Pole, which is not a country. And we've been to Easter Island, which you think is 3,000 miles in the middle of the sea. But it's considered chilly. So those don't count as countries. And we climbed by the Kilimanjaro. And I think what's significant about all these things is you don't want to do any of them.

I don't enjoy any of this stuff. None of it's my idea. I have a wife who loves to travel and I love my wife. And if I want to spend a vacation with her, I have to do it in North Korea or Libya or someplace like that.

I mean, this is the ultimate expression of love. I think so. The fact that you go to all these places that you don't want to go to. So Denise decides, I'd like to go see the Titanic. Correct. And you said, huh? We had a friend from, lives outside of Seattle. And our friends know this is how we travel. This is the things we do. So he said, there's a guy in my neighborhood who's

Build submarines and take them to dangerous places. And when I saw this, I thought of you.

And so, and I'll give his name. His name is Stockton Rush. Now, I mean, right. If that's your name, you are born to be an adventurer. And the guy, he was a jet pilot and a rocket scientist. Now he built subs because his name is Stockton Rush. Oh, sure. Exactly. That is the only qualification he's got, but it's a good one. He had no choice. So he built this sub and the first place we went with him,

was off of Staten Island. That was the first exotic Florida call, Staten Island. And he took us down to something called the Hudson Canyon. And these subs are about the size of a van. And the interior space is like an SUV with the seats ripped out. The guy's never heard of chairs. So you just sit on the floor of this sub and one side of it is a big window like a washing machine.

Then you go down and you look out. And so we went down to Hudson Canyon. Hudson Canyon is like the Grand Canyon underwater off of Staten Island. We went a thousand feet down and then we came up. Wow. And then he goes, well, congratulations. You're the first people to ever go into Hudson Canyon. It's like, what? You're testing yourself on us? I want to go where people have been before.

So that was it. I am the Neil Armstrong or the Buzz Aldrin of Hudson Canyon. And again, I don't want to be. Now he's decided he's going to go to see the Titanic. The Hudson Canyon, that was a thousand feet down. The Titanic is 25 times steep, two and a half miles deep. How long did it take to go down 25,000 feet? Two and a half hours.

Yeah, it's two and a half miles of just dropping. This is the funny thing, if anyone's interested what these subs are like, because it's like if you drove your car into the ocean. That's all it is. They dump the sub off the back of the boat.

And it just sinks. And it just sinks for two and a half hours. And there's nothing to see. It's just black. And in fact, I could have died on this adventure. But instead, I fell asleep. I was so just bored. There's nothing to do. And I fell asleep. And we hit bottom. And again, we don't know where we are. We started off right over the Titanic. But there's underwater currents. And we're drifting. And we had this sense.

We're 500 yards away from the Titanic. It's the biggest thing in the world, but we can't find it. You know, it's like two city blocks away. And so we're cruising around the bottom of the ocean looking for the Titanic. And just to make things exciting, there was a hurricane coming at sea level. So our time was very limited. And by the time we got down to the bottom, we had like

40 minutes to find the Titanic, look at it, and then get back up before a hurricane came in. So we're just nosing around looking for the thing and then, oh, there it is. We see the Titanic and our time was on short. We just got the greatest hits. I mean,

I didn't like this because we weren't exploring. We were like tourists. It's like, oh, there's where Leo DiCaprio stood and there's the anchor and here's the funnel that fell over. You know, we got like three great photographs and then had to go back up. So that was it. I saw the Titanic. In hindsight, even though you didn't want to go, I mean, it was amazing, wasn't it?

It's like you and James Cameron. Those are the only people who've seen the Titanic. It was funny because we had all these experts on the boat and I was so hopeful. I go...

Am I the first Jew to visit the Titanic? And there was a French expert on board. He goes, no, that was Francis Lindemann. He went three years ago. So it's like, I'm not even the first Jew. And there was a Mexican guy on board. He goes, am I the first Mexican? Yes, you are. So I am, and I can state this categorically, I am the first ALF writer to visit the Titanic. Yeah.

So you also casually mentioned just a moment ago, and I caught it. Oh, yeah. That you went to North Korea. Yeah. These, I guess, are the two things that really impress people. Well, I mean, A, for most of us, it's not even on our list. And B, even if it was, we wouldn't even know where to begin or how to go. And it's not in the realm of reality. Right.

So you walk me through this. Denise decides, because I know it wasn't you. Yeah. I'd like to know. Yes. It was funny. It was even I woke up one morning. I was up early and I see we get an email from some travel agent because we're on everybody's list.

And it said, running tours to North Korea. And I saw the email and I deleted it. And then I deleted it from trash. And because I didn't want Denise to see it. But then they wrote to her separately. So she saw it and we're going. And the story is North Korea is closed to everybody. Right.

Except they do a thing called the mass games. They do this thing every year called the mass games. And it's like the Olympics opening ceremony with no Olympics behind it because they don't believe in Olympics because Olympics are competition and we're communists. We don't compete. We all work together. But they still stage this amazing spectacular that they are so proud of.

They let the world in for three weeks. You are allowed in. Now they vet everybody who comes in. And so to get in, you know, I'm filling out the forms and they said, don't say you're a writer. They don't want writers coming in. So, and they, they don't like Jews and, you know, they've never seen a Jew, but they hear bad things. So I had to say I was a Catholic publicist.

to get into North Korea. And we hear back from them. And then the other scary thing is North Korea kidnaps visiting talent. I mean, this is, yeah. So, you know, this story, they'll have a film festival. They'll welcome these world directors and then keep them there and force them to make movies for the regime. Yeah.

You know, North Korea is not scary enough. I might get kidnapped and forced to make propaganda cartoons, I guess, or do the North Korean version of Al's. So I say I'm a Catholic publicist and we hear back, no, you're not. They said, we went to China to Google you because you can't. There's no Google in North Korea. We went to China to Google you and we found out what you do and we know your career and you're still welcome to come.

Which to me means you're not worth kidnapping. What did that do for your ego? It kind of hurt. So we went to North Korea.

It's an extraordinarily managed tour. And anyone who goes to North Korea gets the exact same tour. There were 14 people in our group. We had seven full-time minders. There is one hotel in the national capital, Pyongyang. And it's a big high-rise hotel.

surrounded by a moat. It literally has a moat. So you go into the hotel at night, they pull up the drawbridge, there is no escaping your hotel. And so the 14 people in our group were just like us. They were just very jaded world travelers. There was one guy in the group who's the most traveled man on earth. And you think, wow, this is Stockton Rush. It's some...

diplomat or some debonair man and even he was just a slub he's uh he was like a math teacher from brooklyn but he happens to be the man who's been everywhere so you've got seven handlers staying in the tower of pyongyang right surrounded by a moat and not surrounded by moat and there's it's a three-day tour and i gotta say if you can ignore

the human suffering around you. It's a great trip. It's a real, I mean, they really put together a terrific tour. You go visit different monuments that

North Korea is just crazy with, you know, gigantic Stalinist monuments. And you go visit these things and you take a river cruise and you have a lantern festival. The food is fantastic. Oh, my favorite part. They took us to an indoor circus. It was just in the theater that clearly had just been doing like Death of a Salesman. Because on stage, it's just this 1950s living room set.

But all these circus performers come out and they do their acts. And then, this is my favorite part, a bear, an actual, like a grizzly bear comes out with an upright vacuum cleaner and vacuums the carpet. That's the closer. The bear is vacuuming this apartment. And I'm looking, don't...

It's doing a pretty good job, you know? But anyway, the whole point is we're there to see the mass games and we go see this show. It is literally the most spectacular thing you've ever seen. 50,000 people on the floor of this arena. It's an outdoor stadium and, you know, they're doing...

Vegas-style numbers. There's nothing propagandistic about it. They're all in sailor costumes, and then 10,000 people leave the field as 10,000 more come on. They're in hula hoops, and they're doing hula hoops. Meanwhile, in the background, across the stadium on the other side is...

10,000 kids with cars doing those card shows where the whole stadium holds up a card and makes a big picture of the countryside or a tractor or something like that. And that went nonstop at the same time. So you watch the show. It's amazing. It's 90 minutes to the second.

And it was only when we were leaving the arena, we see it's pouring rain. You know, the spectators are covered, but all those people who just put on the greatest show in the world did it in pouring rain. Wow. That was it. That's my trip to Korea. So do you actually see, I mean, I have to ask, do you actually see the human suffering? Because Pyongyang is pretty sterile, isn't it? It is. Well, again, it looks great. It's got an Arc de Triomphe right in the middle of it. It's got...

filled it with infrastructure there's 10 lane highways everywhere but nobody has a car so in fact our bus driver would just drive down the highway zigzagging from left to right just having fun because he had the highway to himself yeah so they got that they live in high rises but nobody has electricity so it goes dark at night the whole city

It's a weird mix. They have a subway system that's built in the Stalinist way. Stalin built these subways with chandeliers and fine art on the walls. They've got that too. So the suffering, yes, you would say just people were thin. They were really thin. And one day we took a ride to the country to see the military. And you saw people...

just trudging, trudging down the roads again, thin people. And you didn't know where they were going, but you knew, Oh, they they're walking a long way to get something they need. Yeah. Yeah. So there is that, but I'll tell you one other funny thing. One day they just set us loose in a park and they have this giant public park in, uh,

kong yang that's as lovely as any public park you've been to and people were having fun they were having picnics you know they don't just sit there being miserable all the time and we saw a bunch of older women in kimonos drunk out of their mind and they were having so much fun and they're dancing to traditional music and uh my wife is filming them and then

I get pulled into the dance. I'm dancing with old North Korean women who are drunk. And that's where a guard comes up and covers the camera. And it's like, dude, you shouldn't cover this. This is people having fun in North Korea. Were you allowed to take pictures of anything you wanted or was it very controlled? It was very controlled. It was very managed. And it is funny. We had no good photos from that trip. So...

Maybe I'm making it all up and I never went to North Korea. It's like the lunar landing. I probably shouldn't talk about a lunar landing because Denise will probably plan it. Oh, yes. Oh, is that another thing she wants to do? Does she want to put you in one of the virgins or one of the rockets that all of these guys are doing? She hasn't said this, and I don't know if you know it. I'll bet I've told you this story. In 2018, Mars was as close to the Earth as it's ever going to get.

And so they then somewhat, oh, some billionaire had this idea. Let's send a probe just to go out, fly around Mars and come back. And we'll send someone to take pictures. And if you know my wife, she's the woman for the job. She takes more photos than like most security cameras. So they said that it was going to be a $5 billion mission. And they wanted to send a middle-aged childless couple

into space to photograph mars and was a middle-aged couple because if they died who cares right and that was their thinking and they thought oh a couple an old couple will get a look so we volunteer we'll go to mars and it was just going to be 500 days in a capsule me and denise and uh

And we applied and we got Neil deGrasse Tyson to endorse us. He's just somebody we know from college. So Neil endorsed us and we made it past the first cut. You know, that was it. We were headed for Mars again at SUV for 500 days. And the only thing that scared me was I knew we were going to have to be trained medically. So they were going to have to teach Denise how to...

take out my appendix in space if that came up. Right. I don't really love her cutting my hair, so that would be a challenge. But...

But that was it. We were gung-ho. We were going to go into space and hopefully come back from space. And then the whole mission collapsed. This billionaire put up a billion dollars and nobody came up with the other five billion. Are you still writing TV at all? Oh, yes. I still work at The Simpsons. I consult at the show a day a week. And that's a pleasure. And in fact, because of COVID, I used to, I live in New York.

And I used to fly to L.A. every Wednesday to work at the Simpsons. And I would work a day and then I'd get on a red-eye and fly back to New York or North Korea or Australia or wherever we were going. Or Mars. But with COVID, the show has gone on to Zoom. We've been working on Zoom for two and a half years, which means I can still keep my phony baloney job going.

but I don't have to fly to L.A. That's amazing. This has completely untethered us. So we've been traveling nonstop once the world opened up. And every week on a Wednesday, I'll log into Zoom work at the Simpsons, and they go, where are you now? And I'll go, I'm in Peru. I'm in Tanzania. And

That's it. I have now zoomed into work at the Simpsons from every continent of the world. That's fabulous. Yeah. We have these wonderful little claims to fame, of which I know some, not all. Yeah. But the minions. The minions, yeah. There's this wonderful story of the first...

Minions movie, not the actual Minions. What was the actual movie called? Despicable Me. Despicable Me, right. There's this wonderful story I recall of the first Despicable Me where I think they asked you to consult on the script and you kept getting confused between, it kept saying Minion 1, Minion 2. You kept getting confused which one was which. So that was it. I'm working on the script and

grew the steve carell character it is always just going boys today we're gonna do the boys even to dress the minions you know that way as a group and i decided well let's let's pretend they're distinct now i couldn't tell them i mean they just look like new print they're just little and yellow and they all look exactly the same but i said what if he addresses them all individually and

Let's give it even though they're so weird. Let's give them really boring white guy names. And I was doing this on the slide at the Simpsons. And I look around, I go, well, here's a bunch of boring white guys, the Simpsons writer. So I just named them.

I just had him go, Bob, Stuart, Kevin, Phil, Jack, Al, we've had a great time together. He's so normal. And it's just Simpsons writers. And it was no big deal at the time, except when they started spinning off the Minions to give them their own movies.

And then they would, you would see posters everywhere. Here's Kevin. This is Stuart. You know, Bob's on a big adventure. And I go, oh, these are just my friends from the Simpsons. So it wasn't supposed to stick. It was you just mucking about. It was just really a joke. I think I did twice in the original script and, you know, the name stuck and then the names became characters. I love that. So a cartoon of yellow people,

the writers are now immortalized in the cartoon of yellow nut people. One of the three main minions, the guys who carry the Minions franchise, one of them is named Kevin, and he's named after Simpsons writer Kevin Currit, who has passed away. So this is his legacy. He lives on.

He lives on as a minion. I know that Simpsons fans who are maybe listening would be mad at me for not asking a couple of Simpsons. Oh, of course. I'm sorry. And I'm sorry to everyone who's had to put up with this. Yeah. No, I like the North Korea stories. Do you have a favorite episode?

You know, and I'm sure it's a question you get asked a lot. So you've got a lot of time to think about the answer. Right. There's a funny thing, which is the show's been on now. We're writing our 35th year of the show. That's insane. It's insane. It is really crazy. You know, I grew up in a factory town.

And people worked in a factory or they worked for an insurance company. And there were people there whose dads worked for the same company for 35 years. And I go, wow, that's the life I want. And I got it. I'm just one of these career lifers at The Simpsons. So I've been there for 35 years, except for two years in the middle I'd missed.

There's two years I just walked away from TV. I thought I'd never do it again. And those were the two years I could go home and watch The Simpsons and not know what was coming out. And I go, I not only went, wow, this is a great show. I guess, gee, it's

so much better without me. So those are the two years I really love. And I think it's like season six and seven of the show are absolutely fantastic. And it actually does. There's an episode called Itchy and Scratchy and Poochy, which is the fans favorite episode. It's unbelievable that there's some consensus out of 700 episodes. They love this show. And of

Of course, I had nothing to do with it. So that one I really like. Of the ones I've worked on, and I ran the show for a couple of years, there's the Monorail episode. Fans will know the Monorail episode. It was written by Conan O'Brien. It's directed by Rich Moore, who went on to win an Oscar for the movie Zootopia. So some real future talent there. And it just came out great. And it was one of those shows where...

It wasn't working all the way through till right at the end. It all came together. And, you know, that's the one we show at film festivals and it just,

It just plays great from start to finish. That's a great lesson, right? Which is it's not working, it's not working. This creative product is not working and it all comes together at the end. Creative products are different than engineering products. You don't reverse engineer a creative product. What is it about Simpsons as a creative product that works? Because there's been plenty of beloved characters with very talented writers that just could not survive for 35 years. The creative product started to break down.

What is it about this creative process you think that's given it such remarkable longevity? We all thought, oh, what is special about us and why have we run so long? And then...

One day it hit me, gee, if The Simpsons wasn't on the air, the longest running show on TV would be South Park. And if South Park went off the air, it would be Family Guy. And then suddenly you see the pattern, which is animation goes forever. And, you know, you look at Mickey Mouse, there's nothing appealing about Mickey Mouse, but he's been around for 95 years. He's still liable.

And suddenly you realize, oh, this is why other shows go off the air. It's the actors. The actors get tired. The actors get bored. That's the only reason Cheers is not on TV in its 40-bit year was Ted Danson said, I'm sick of this. Or Seinfeld.

seinfeld goes i'm sick of playing jerry seinfeld that's it you know of course people would still be watching seinfeld state yeah so it's just it's almost always just the actors you have actors you have actors have been around forever yeah but they you know they work their schedule they work uh and our actors work 44 hours a year

That's how they do 22 episodes over the course of a year. They work 44 hours. They each get about $9 million a year. And I did the math on that. I think they make about $40 a second doing the show. And they're half the budget of our show. Just our six actors have been there since the very start. And

No one begrudges them there. They're really nice people. They appreciate this great hand life as Delta, but they're so talented. You know, we...

The way any character comes into The Simpsons is we write a joke with sort of a generic character like Janitor. And then we get to a table read where they all come together. And if things are going well, they come up with this funny voice that fits that joke, that makes us laugh. And then our animators hear that voice, hear the line, and draw what they think that guy would look like.

And then it comes back to us where, you know, three months later, we watch it in animation.

And if that makes us laugh, we go, oh, we like this guy. We'll keep bringing him back. And that's all. But outside of the main Simpsons characters, almost everyone else on the show, and we have 200 characters on the show, they all started out that way. One generic line, generally, you know, they don't even have a name. They're just called, you know, Mayor at a Grocery Store, or Stoody Clerk. They all come about that way, and they grow organically. And that's

You talk about a creative enterprise, how the show works. It's that there are people at every step of the way who just make it better. Everyone's pulling in the same direction, but we write the best script we can and we work and rewrite everything.

Every script is rewritten from top to bottom eight full times, eight page one rewrites between initial script and going on the air. So we do all the writing we can, but then we have these really brilliant actors who bring them to light. And then we have great designers who create the characters and brilliant writers.

directors who bring those characters to life. And it just gets better at every stage. I so love that, that each creative discipline is allowed to direct where the creative could go. You said the writers write the jokes, then the actors give voices to those characters and those jokes, and then the animators try and bring that voice to life, and the directors figure out how it all comes together. I mean, how wonderful a process that is. I can't think

of any other industry, you know, because usually the way most things work is there's some sort of creative genius at the beginning and other people sort of are beholden to that creative genius and the creative genius directs everything and sort of makes everything happen or not happen. But so rare is this kind of collaboration. Yeah, you know, people would be surprised. I think they don't understand how generally creative

collaborative network TV is. Almost all of it is done, on sitcoms at least, all the writing is done by a group, by a writer's group. Someone will write the script. In a show like Big Bang Theory, and you can't be more successful than Big Bang Theory, they don't even start with the script. It's just a bunch of people in the room

throwing it out and crafting this thing together as a group. I wonder if we could do something like that in the business world, you know, where you just put a bunch of people in a room and just all we know is we have to produce a thing, but we don't know what the thing is yet. I wonder if that's repeatable. It sounds like it's pretty, pretty remarkable family that's been built there over the years. I mean, you all known each other for, I mean, at least the, the, you know, the old guard and the actors, you've all known each other for, you know, three decades.

three decades and even the showrunner is my college roommate. So we're going on like 40, 45 years together. It's very amicable. And in fact, you know, I wrote a book. I wrote a memoir of my 30 years at the Simpsons. And to be candid, one reason I wrote this book was to get fired. I just said, all right, I'm going to

You know, I'll do this book. I won't ask anyone and they'll fire me. And finally I could live my life. But the book just turned out to be a love letter to The Simpsons. And it came out and the only complaint I ever got was from an Israeli book critic. He called out, where is the dirt? There must be dirt. And it was only then I realized, oh, yeah, there's no dirt. 35 years.

And there were maybe two bad weeks in 35 years where people were not getting along, and that's in the book.

But mostly, it shouldn't be a surprise. Okay, why does The Simpsons keep running? Because it's nice. It's a nice place to work. People like to go there every day. They like to see each other. You're making a case, you know, I mean, it's a microcosm of what a good corporate culture is supposed to be, which is if you have shared values and if you had shared cause, you know, as you said, all of these people, the writers and the actors and the animators were all coming together for common cause, right?

That if you all get along and share values and have common cause, it should work. Yes. There actually is no great mystery to this. It's the same as friends. When friends get along, good things happen, nice things happen because we just like each other. I've been on TV shows where one guy that just doesn't get along, he can be a great writer.

But if he doesn't get along with the group, everything comes grinding to a halt. It's unbelievable how quickly just one malcontent can shut down a whole show and

And progress and have people not really want to come to work anymore. It's true. In business, they call it the no asshole rule. Oh, okay. So we can say asshole on this podcast. Okay. You can even say more than that. You can say it twice. No, let me, because I'll tell you a very famous Simpsons story, which is we had this

wonderful writer at the show, so talented that everybody thought he was an asshole. And so the bosses call him in for a meeting. They said, gee, we love the work you're doing, but people think you're an asshole and we'll have to let you go unless you can stop being an asshole. And he said, let me think about it. And he went home and he came back the next day and he said, well, I discussed it with my wife and she agreed. I can't stop being an asshole. Yeah.

So he got fired for that. He got fired. I love the fact that he said, let me think about it. Yeah. You know, he's true to himself. And, uh,

I mean, only an asshole would think to themselves, let me think about whether I want to stop being an asshole. We let a couple of people go over the years because of that. Almost all of them have gone on to fabulous things. Giant careers, including this guy, who I'm a huge fan. I never thought he was an asshole. There was a period where everybody was a little precious. They thought of the Simpsons and they weren't quite getting a launch. And the shows, it was interesting in that the shows...

stayed funny. In fact, they were really funny during this time, but they got a little meaner. There was a little more cruelty in the shadows. There was a little more savagery in the shadows. And that was it. I think it just kind of percolated up

into the show mike i could talk to you forever i love your stories thank you so much for coming on the one thing that i sort of walk away from this which is a how to have a successful marriage yeah i've learned that how to have a successful relationship which is all the crazy ideas your partner can come up with just just say yes just say yes

That is my motto. I mean, you have a joie de vivre and a love of life that I think is contagious. And you make me want to take more adventures, even if I don't come up with them. And just the way you've approached your career, you know, it really is. I think there's a lot to transfer. I really want to do this experiment. We just put a bunch of smart, fun, talented people in a room and say, all right, you have to come up with something. I don't care what it is. I'll see you in a week.

I think it would work. I think they're corporate people and I think probably startups where they go, we need friction and friction generates ideas and we need conflict. And I always think the only two good things ever created by friction are fire and babies. And on that note.

Thanks for coming. Thank you. This is so much fun. I can't shut up. You'll see when you're my age. I can't stop talking. It's so embarrassing. I've always said there's no such thing as weaknesses or strengths. There's just characteristics and attributes. And the goal is to put yourself in a place where those things are strong. And broadcast is a good place.

For people who don't stop talking, I've made a career out of it too. Not so good at like family dinners. Mike, thanks so much. Please give Denise a big hug for me. I sure will. I'll talk to you real soon. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like to learn more about the topic you just heard, please check out the Optimism Library at simonsidic.com.

where you can get access to more than 35 Undemand classes about leadership, culture, purpose, and more. Until then, take care of yourself. Take care of each other.

For 25 years, Brightview Senior Living has been dedicated to creating an award-winning company culture so residents and families receive best-in-class services. Across our 50 communities, Brightview associates help deliver peace of mind, safety, security, transportation, daily programs, delicious food, and high-quality care if needed.

Discover how our vibrant senior living communities can help you live your best life. Visit brightviewseniorliving.com to learn more. Equal housing opportunity. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage.

I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.

Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I am Lacey Lamar. And I'm also Lacey Lamar. Just kidding. I'm Amber Revin. Okay, everybody, we have exciting news to share. We're back with season two of the Amber and Lacey, Lacey and Amber show on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network. This season, we make new friends, deep dive into my steamy DMs,

answer your listener questions and more the more is punch each other listen to the amber and lacy lacy and amber show on will ferrell's big money players network on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts just listen okay or lacy gets it do it