Jimmy Butler Trade To Suns Coming? Nuggets Are Contenders & Beach Steppin'
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And welcome to No Dunks, a basketball podcast on the Athletic Podcast Network. I'm your host for today, Trey Kirby, and joining me, he wishes he were podcasting outside in the cold today. It's Tass Mellis. I do not. It is super cold in Atlanta, but glad to be here online with you guys. The man making the magic happen today, Eshua Kidd. Esh, what's up, man? What's up, Esh?

How y'all doing, man? Doing all right. Our second snow day in Atlanta in the year 2025. It's freezing cold outside. The roads are dangerous, so we're here in the yard. Skeets and JD, though, they are in Paris. I think they're taking the Da Vinci Code tour of the Louvre today. Very exciting for them. That's inside information. Can't wait.

yeah big Dan Brown fans I know they're uh Tom Hanks heads they gotta see it all I know skeets was posting some Mona Lisa stuff earlier today I think he's actually here in the stream team right now but we are going to be talking you through everything that's happened in the last 24 hours in the NBA and Tess I got a call on my good friend the southern lawyer we got ourselves kind of kind of

No players trade going down in the middle of the season. The Phoenix Suns have traded their unprotected 2031 first round pick six years in the future. 2031 unprotected first round pick. It's going to the Utah Jazz in return. The Jazz are sending the Suns the least favorable first round pick.

in 2025 between Cleveland and Minnesota. Then it's the least favorable first round pick between Cleveland, Minnesota and Utah in 2027 and 2029. So basically an unprotected first round pick in 2031 from the Suns going to the Jazz. Three first round picks coming back to Phoenix so that they can split them up whoever they want. Tess, there are no players involved in this trade. This is strictly assets we're talking here.

So who won the trade? I don't know if that's even the right question to ask. What are your thoughts on this? My initial thought was, oh, this is going to be boring. But then when you actually think about it, I think this is the most interesting, boring trade you can get from the Utah perspective.

They are saying, oh, Phoenix, you're going to stink in 2031. So we're willing to give you three draft picks. Now, those draft picks aren't going to be all that great. As you said, this year it's going to be Cleveland, which is probably the 30th pick. And then the other two years, it's probably just guessing in a 24, 25, 26 range region there. I would say...

Still, it's risky for Utah. I mean, you are giving away three draft picks, which you could go trade for a player at some point instead of this prospective 2031 draft pick. But it's a trade. It's risky, but it's a risk willing to take because they still have 11 picks over the next seven years. So they're saying, all right, here's three, and we'll see if you really, really stink, which is...

a possibility. I wonder if you're Matt Ishbia and the Suns, are you a little insulted? These guys really think we're going to suck.

Yeah, you got to be a little bit like, I mean, it's sort of motivation for the Suns in the next, literally in the next six years to be like, we can't let this pick go the way it went for the Brooklyn Nets with the Jason Tatum pick, which that was a Danny Ainge trade as well. He seems to have done okay betting against teams in the future. And like, literally I'm seeing highlights of 10 year old kids who are in the class of 2031 as the

potential draft pick here. So yeah, I mean a little bit of risk, I suppose, for the Jazz turning three picks into one. It could not be a top five pick, but they could also be further along in their rebuild at that point and really benefit from getting a top five pick. So I think a smart move, because like you're saying, they've got so many other draft picks in their coffers from the Mitchell and Gobert trades that it kind of makes sense to...

condense them into one player because they're not going to be able to roster all of their draft picks anyways. They got such a young team right now. There's just not enough spots for people. So this could end up being a really juicy pick for the Jazz in 2031, assuming we still have the NBA draft.

But I think it's smart to start with the Jazz because it's pretty quick to assess their side of the deal. They gave up three picks that are going to be probably in the 20s, maybe in the teens. If Phoenix gets lucky in that 2029 one, who knows what's going to happen. And they turned it into one big swing in the 20s.

in 2031. The Sun side is obviously more interesting because they're in the mix here for Jimmy Butler. They got these three picks, which everybody is assuming will be used as ammunition to get off the Nurkish contract, probably cost them a first round pick and then to get off the Bradley Beal contract, assuming he waves his no trade clause. That's probably another couple of picks. Do you think that's what we're going to be seeing here? Tas a Beal deal actually happening soon? I sure feel like it.

is going to happen. Yeah, it's Matt Ishbia. He's willing to mortgage his future for now and going to get Jimmy Butler really, really condenses how good they're going to be for a long period of time in the future. I mean, really, we're seeing a team that went to the first round and got swept last year. Now you're going to add, if it happens, obviously, a guy who's 35, going to be 36, and

To get to, it feels like the second round would be an accomplishment. It doesn't feel outside of their, what would be their big three of Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and Jimmy Butler.

that they are anywhere close to a contender after watching what Nick Richards has done for them for the first couple games. They still lack a point of attack defense, and they still lack a guy who's a pretty good rim protector all the time. The Cavs were just able to go at Nick Richards. So all that to be said,

I find it fascinating. I really want to see it happen because it is interesting. So yeah, it's a great move for them. They go from only being able to deal one first rounder to now being able to deal three. And that's a great move for them. So they own, yeah, they're 26, they're 28, and they're 30. And then they own these other three picks. So

Really, the opposing team, whether it's a three-way deal or a four-way deal, can pick from those. And it could be three picks, which sounds a little crazy if you're going to trade three picks for Bradley Beal right now. But you also have the ability to attach a pick in this deal for Yusuf Nurkic if they want to get rid of him. So, Nurkic in a first pick just to save us some money. And, yeah, I think Beal actually could happen. Trey, do you think this is...

legitimate that this Phoenix Suns team says, we got to do it. We got to do it right here and right now.

think it is going to happen just because it definitely feels like the reporting has changed in the past couple of days. You had John Gambadoro saying that Bradley Beal is willing to waive his no trade clause if he were going to go to Milwaukee, which is a lot of the reporting around this is that the next scenario would end up with Beal in Milwaukee, Butler going to Phoenix, and then we're figuring everything else out from there with regards to who's going back to the Heat. Maybe the Raptors get involved here, but

Gambadoro reported that Beal would be willing to waive his no-trade clause. And Brian Windhorst on the Hoop Collective, like Skeets mentioned yesterday, said basically the Heat are getting more serious about making the deal happen. You saw the game last night. Butler is back playing, and it looks like he's playing to not get hurt, if I'm being quite honest. He's not full Jimmy Butler. So, yeah, I do think it happens. Will it be...

before we actually get to the trade deadline sometime in the next 15 days? I kind of think yes, but I was wrong. I didn't think Jimmy was ever going to play for the Miami Heat again. They brought him back, got him on the court, and he's definitely out there. But I don't know what I think about this. On one hand, I think that Jazz did great.

They get an A for me for turning three picks that they probably would move at some point anyways into a chance to get a good one. As for the Suns, I got to give them a little bit of a winner here because I think they at the very least accomplished what they're setting out to do, getting more picks, which would then allow

them to go get Jimmy Butler. Do I think it's smart? No, not at all. I think by 2031, this team could be terrible. That's one of the best assets out there, that 2031 unprotected pick, which maybe the Jazz will move at some point in the next six years. But to me, it feels like

This almost guarantees Devin Booker won't be a son by 2031. Kevin Durant will probably be retired by 2031. So I don't think it was a very smart move, but I do love that Ishpia did it because in today's NBA, all of the GMs are smart. They're all planning for the long term. You don't see a guy double, triple, maybe even quadruple down all

on something like this because the Kevin Durant trade was huge. The Bradley Beal trade was huge. And then this Jimmy Butler trade is going to be a big time deal from an asset standpoint as well. Apparently Ishbia and Jimmy Butler have some sort of an agreement that Butler would therefore sign a deal with

with the Suns after the trade that's going to be a bad deal since he's so late into his career it just doesn't seem like a smart move for the long term but clearly Matt ishbia is not thinking long term here he's thinking short term and I'm maybe a little more positive on Jimmy Butler going to the Suns than you are I think he becomes their point of attack Defender he becomes their best perimeter Defender for sure he's definitely better than Bradley Beal they upgraded the center spot with Nick Richards but the thing is the Suns have zero depth

and zero role players outside of Booker and Durant. And I guess Butler would be there as well. So this doesn't really address that. I think it makes them a very dangerous play in team. Maybe they get to the sixth seed in the Western Conference, but it doesn't feel like a trade for Butler would actually make them a contender. Do you agree with that, Taz? As much as I love the story of Jimmy Butler, I just love

as much as I love him being mad at Miami's front office for not giving him a longer term deal than what he has. He just has a player option for next year. And he said, I took you to the finals twice, pay me a little bit more until I'm 38. Like other players get, you look at what Jimmy does. He can, he can't stay on the floor all that much and watching him game to game here in his three games since he's returned. I mean, the drives are there occasionally. Um,

But can he be a complimentary guy on a team with Kevin Durant and Devin Booker? Sure. But he ain't going to be complimenting it all that much. And this team that is strictly a team that can outscore teams can do that. But I don't think that Jimmy is going to be an incredible defender on the other end. It just ain't going to happen. And so this team, yeah, well, maybe we'll outscore a team. And I guess if you can get into the mind of Matt Ishbia,

That's what he wants. He went and got Kevin Durant for this and now Jimmy Butler for it as well. But it just doesn't seem like this is a real good playoff team. Yeah, they could probably win a playoff series. I mean, I think that's more than...

Then they can accomplish. I think that's all it would be. It would be an extremely old team. Maybe he can be their best point of attack defender, but that ain't saying all that much. I mean, I think they can get outscored and the way that Nick Richards guards the paint

It ain't all that great. And so you've got an OK team. They're sort of a middle of the pack defensive rebounding team. I feel like other teams can go and go get boards against them.

I guess there's this old Trey. I think that's what it would come down to if he gets there. But it is fun from our seat to be seeing a guy like Matt Ishbia just go try and do it because he is kind of unique in that way. And

Yeah, that 2031 pick may end up being bad. You do have an owner, though, in Matt Ishbia who's willing to go for it immediately. And I don't think he's just going to sit on his hands and say, OK, we're going to, you know, slow play this and try and get good for years and years and years. It will be interesting in a mere six years to see how good this Phoenix Suns team is.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if they can win a playoff series because I'm with you. I think that they were probably a first round out prior to a Jimmy Butler trade. If they're able to swing this deal, maybe the ceiling is winning a first round series, but I don't think it catapults them into the upper echelon of the Western Conference. Maybe they get something for Nurkic as well. Maybe.

I mean, if they give a capable backup center, he's a backup center. You know, he's a talented guy. If you attach a first-round pick to him, you're probably getting something decent back. They need role players is what it comes down to. And so, I mean, if they can get somebody scrappy to guard –

a one or a five, I guess. Now I'm reaching here. They need those two positions, really. I mean, Tyus Jones is going to play, but they need somebody to defend. So I guess this ain't over. If there's somebody that's active, it's James Jones and Matt Ishbia making something happen, possibly.

Yeah, they love the trade picks. So I guess they will be probably moving on these three picks. What do you think about the Bradley Beal rumors, Tass? Do you like the idea of Beal ending up alongside Damon Giannis in Milwaukee? Because it feels like that's the buzz is that the third team that's getting involved here is likely going to be the Bucs. There will be a fourth team who could possibly be the Raptors who help facilitate this sort of deal. What do you think about Bradley Beal?

potentially joining the books. It seemed like.

This trade is super complicated. So I got into the nitty gritty and I was working trade machines, working it over and over and over. And it seems like, yeah, they'd have to get rid of Pat Connaughton and maybe the Raptors would be willing to accept Pat Connaughton's contract and a trade player exception that they have to ingest. Okay, sure, that works. But they probably would have to get rid of Chris Middleton and bring in Bradley Beal.

So you might say, oh, Chris Middleton can't really stay on the floor. Ain't all that healthy. But either is Bradley Beal. And to me, it's kind of like a lateral move. I'm not all that excited for Bradley Beal over Chris Middleton. I know Chris Middleton ain't 2021 Chris Middleton. That was their lead producer handling the ball on that team. I kind of... I say that because...

He was a very good player on that team. And sometimes he comes back and has some really good possessions. Now, Bradley Beal is fine, but I don't know. It's sort of a lateral move. I'm not all that excited about it. Would you be excited about that? I think you're exactly right. Nailing it. It might help. I think Connor kind of nailed it here in the stream team. Beal to the Bucs is both good and also doubling down on the problems the Bucs have long term. Like,

Were they to make a move for Beal? You're going to see a lot of lineups that have Damian Lillard and Bradley Beal as the perimeter defenders. And that's been a problem for the Bucks and for the Suns, having those two guys trying to stick perimeter guys. So I don't know exactly know how that would work, but yeah,

i suppose it's a bit of a talent play for milwaukee though bradley beal just like chris middleton it ain't 2021 anymore so i don't think it's the wisest move for milwaukee but maybe they think it kind of ups their ceiling a little bit i would personally disagree we'll see what ends up happening though because that part definitely feels a little bit unsettling like you're unsettled like you've said

Maybe Pat Connaughton is gone. Maybe Bobby Portis ends up on the Miami heat. There've been some formulations with Bruce Brown getting in the mix here. Kevin Love could be a Milwaukee buck. Who knows what's actually going to go down. Cause like you're saying this deal is pretty complicated, but you think we're going to do an emergency podcast? Absolutely. Absolutely. I don't, I don't. Well, yeah, we have 15 days until the trade deadline. Um,

um but i do feel like it's going to be closer rather than further i think it'll be somewhat sooner i i think this milwaukee bucks having to give up a lot of parts because they're a high salary team right now but you're bringing a monstrous bill one so you'd have to get rid of some teams and yes the chemistry is important but you're just you're getting even more ancient than you already are you're an older team um so it feels weird so when i

When we do get this emergency pod going, hopefully the snow is melted in Atlanta and we can do it in person. And I don't think the Bucs will be part of it. It's just that part seems a stretch, but...

The Suns heat part, that seems legitimate. What the Heat end up with is really interesting because I was doing the, hey, get Ben Simmons to the Miami part. So Bradley Beal goes to a part like Brooklyn where he's more of a number one guy and at least playing basketball starting. So I think that is a possibility where Pat Riley is just so done with Jimmy Butler that he'll literally take...

an expiring deal and hopefully a pick attached. But that's the interesting part, how Jimmy goes and plays on the Pat Riley court, as it's called. And he's just so angry that he wants out of there. He wants to be more of a rotation guy. But at the same time, I'm going to enjoy those Phoenix Suns games, even though it doesn't make them a contender.

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Well, let's talk about Jimmy Butler. He didn't play basketball last night for the Miami Heat. His third game since returning from that seven game suspension. Apparently he did triple down on his trade request to Pat Riley ahead of this game. But Jimmy went out, scored 13 points on four of nine shooting, took nine shots in this game, four rebounds, eight assists for Jimmy and one pair of Suns.

themed basketball shoes to us. This is Jimmy Butler's Leaning JB3. Apparently they've made three signature shoes for Jimmy Butler. And just like his hair earlier in the season, these are not so subtly coded saying, "Hey, I want to go to the Phoenix Suns. I already got the shoes." Would you wear these, Tess? - I would wear these in a heartbeat, Trey.

I think the colors are all right. Yeah. They look pretty good. And I like how we're supporting it. If you're with us on YouTube, how we're kind of right beside it. I haven't seen this look in a long time where we're chilling with the shoe. I just...

Oh, yeah. I thought you tried to untie him there for a sec. Try and play like that, man. I don't want to get fined, man. I guess it's okay, though. But it wasn't enough. Jimmy Butler's whopping 13 points. Anthony Simons scored 24. DeAndre Ayton went for 22 points, 15 boards as the Blazers beat the Heat in this one. No Tyler Hero for Miami.

and they just gave a pretty disappointing performance, I thought, in this one. Portland was plus 16 in fast break points. I think Miami only turned the ball over 10 times in this game, so it was just kind of lazy defense, I thought, from Miami because Portland was running it down the throats of the Heat every single time on makes, on misses. It just didn't matter. They were giving a great effort. They were playing pretty well. Now's kind of a good time to watch the Trail Blazers, I think. They've been scrappy for the past month, and...

15 days from now, the team might look even younger than it is. But you see anything interesting in Heat Blazers? Yeah, I wonder where this Blazers team does go because they've got a lot of capable guys out there, as you said, weren't turning the thing over. Zero turnovers in the first half for this Portland Trail Blazers team.

that was starting, Sue Henderson, Anferty Simons out there. But then the other guys were banging on the boards. 15 second chance points in the first half for this team. That's a lot of points and a tough one for the Heat. The second most they've allowed in a first half this season. So besides Henderson and Simons, I mean, the fast breaks, that was a big part of this game. They were pushing it over and over to win fast breaks 21-5.

So the rest of their starting guys beside Henderson and Simons, Jeremy Grant, three threes. We'll see if he'll be a part of this team. Deandre Aiton, 22 points, 15 boards, six offensive. He'll be a part of this team, I think. But I guess somebody, somebody in Phoenix, maybe they want him back. That's not going to happen. And then Denny Avia, who's been having, he had a good stretch of some games there.

He was really pushing it for Denny to get 10 free throws. That means that he was just literally just pushing it over and over. 16 points, 10 boards, five assists and two steals. Chauncey Billups has these guys working. It is fun to watch this Portland Trailblazers team. They were the team that wanted it more. No hero missing his first game of the season. That obviously hurt. But I know you like your Khalil Ware getting his first start with Bam Adebayo beside him.

20 points, 15 boards, two blocks, two threes for Kalel Ware. Look, this is a ridiculous comparison, but I'm just talking body type and play style. The guy looks like Anthony Davis out there. The way he goes about scoring, catching lobs, these weird little floaters inside. He can step out, hit a mid-ranger. Like I said, he hit a couple of threes in this one. That's probably going to be a limited part of his game, but...

He looks taller than seven feet. He could be seven foot two for all I can tell. Great athlete, really active at the glass. He was rebounding last night though. Like you said, the sun's or the heat got crushed on the glass in this one by the trailblazers. And if you're getting beat on the glass by Aiden, maybe not the greatest look, but I've been impressed with Kalel where maybe things change once the scouting report gets out on him, but it looks like

He could be an impact player going forward for the Miami Heat. They're getting a nice run out of him right now. He is huge. He does look bigger than seven feet. And so when he dunked from the dotted line on a pick and roll there, that was pretty. And then he blocked shots for sure. I mean, he was just doing some things that made me say, Khalil, where did that come from? Over and over. Because, yeah, he's giant. And so I was like...

Who does he remind me of? Anthony Davis is the best comparison he'll ever get, I assume. But I was like...

Darius Baisley? I mean, he's way bigger than Darius Baisley. I don't know out there. I mean, there's not a really good comparison. He leads the team in blocks per game, which is like under one because the Heat don't block any shots. But he was blocking shots. He was at the right spot at the right time, just sitting beside the offensive rim.

catching an air ball and dunking it, which was pretty funny. But yeah, the three-point shot, even though he's not going to shoot a lot of them, he's shooting a great percentage so far this season, even though he hasn't made a ton. He's shooting 40% from three. So I think if you're playing with Bam, you want a guy to stretch the floor. So they're good minutes, even though it ain't going to be all that great for the Miami Heat, I don't think, this year.

Well, I love the Denver Nuggets motor in this baby. They got it going from the get-go. Russell Westbrook was brought in to get the champ's motor going, and he absolutely does. They had 18 fast break points.

18 fast break points in the first quarter. And that's why the Nuggets are a contender in the Western Conference. I mean, for a few reasons. First, I think Jamal Murray is back to that guy who was Jokic's number two and got him to the finals and won that thing. And I think he's even better at times. And he doesn't have to just say, Jokic,

Come for a pick and roll. He'll do it multiple ways. He'll say no pick. He'll do a dribble handoff with Jokic. And you got to go stay out on Jokic right now with the way he's shooting the three. So Jamal Murray's back. I think a second reason is that Aaron Gordon to the bench has really helped their non-Jokic minutes. He runs everything off the bench. He is their guy. He's like the number one guy he was in Orlando, but he can play against second units. So that's improved who they are. And he's got to get...

going in that second unit. You saw Julian Strother yesterday out there working dribble handoffs or pin downs. He had five threes in this game. So he's the next guy in terms of offense on the second unit. And Aaron Gordon can make him work. And then third,

Russell Westbrook and Christian Brown are good with Jokic and Jamal Murray making more plays and taking more shots. And they're making great cuts off the ball. They are just feeling it with Jokic and Jamal Murray. I mean, the attention is on Jokic and Murray. So if these guys are cutting the way they're cutting, Christian Brown on baseline cuts, Russell Westbrook, that motor has not stopped. And that's why they are number one in assists.

Westbrook and Brown use their skills and run fast breaks too. And that's why they're number one in fast break points. So if you watch that game yesterday, literally, you know, the eyes are on Jamal Murray. They're on Jokic, of course. And the Nuggets keep finding guys. 39 assists yesterday and number one in the NBA in assists. I mean, it's a beautiful thing to watch. I think there are some worries. You know, Aaron Gordon on the bench is a problem.

Because what's going to happen with the defensive starting five? Aaron Gordon is such a good starting guard, forward, I should say, beside Jokic because he can guard anybody. But they're a middle-of-the-pack defense right now. But over the last 10 games...

They're top seven and Gordon can still finish games if they change it up. So the defense is a bit of a worry and the bench depth is still a bit of a problem. Aaron Gordon's running things over and over. He's trying to get Julian Strother going. DeAndre Jordan is there big to just dunk and defend as much as he can. And Peyton Watson, I think is comfortable being more of a corner shooter. You know, he's a little below average shooting the three, but he is an incredible defender. So it's Gordon, DeAndre Jordan, Strother and Peyton Watson. I think he,

Just the fact that he gives them more depth is monstrous. Aaron Gordon just playing off the bench right now because he's on a minutes restriction, I think has to be that going forward because he gives them the strength that they need. And so,

And Gordon will be able to finish games, I do think. And this team, even though their last and three points attempted, I mean, they were towards the bottom when they won the title. But their third and three point percentage this season, pretty strong. And I will take a sip of water. I got suggested here on the stream team to take a sip of water. Very pasty today. The Atlantic cold really dries things up.

I'm not sure where Trey is right now. I think he has some internet problems, but just a quick restart and I'm sure he'll be back. Yes, I've had to use moisturizer all over my body the last couple weeks because of the dryness here in Atlanta. I'm one of those men that gets a little older and just says, nah, I'm not going to moisturize. I'll be fine. Anyways, I do think the Denver Nuggets were

I think you can put them into that category. I know that Russell Westbrook came in

To replace Bruce Brown in a way. Nikola Jokic wanted Russell Westbrook. He signed off on it. He loved the deal to get Westbrook going. Or to get this Nuggets team going, I should say. Because that's what they lack. They just lack that MO. I loved him two years ago when I was in Denver's arena to watch this team in the NBA Finals and watch them in practice. And Bruce Brown was just their guy.

To keep things going. And after you win a title. Things can slow down. That is for sure. But I think Russell Westbrook is that guy for a reason. To help them out. Strictly because. Honestly his energy cannot stop. And I think he's totally comfortable. Being third or fourth or fifth. In any game. In terms of shots attempted. Because Michael Porter Jr. Has also worked extremely well. Beside Nikola Jokic. And yeah.

Those patterns are, I mean, they do give me a little bit of worry defensively, for sure, but offensively, they've got it. Is anybody else here? Is there a Trey Kirby in the house? If I click you over? Maybe, perhaps. Maybe not. Hmm. Very interesting. Let me just see here. Okay. Hmm. No good so far.

uh let's move to the knicks nets game because it was incredible to see them go all the way to the end of this basketball game the nets i can't believe how hard they play for jordy fernandez i mean they go and trade their starting point point guard tennis shooter sorry you gotta go cam thomas hasn't played in weeks

And still it comes down to the final shot against the New York Nets, New York Nets, the New York Knicks over and over and over. They continue to produce. I mean, I wonder about Cam Johnson, how incredible he looks right now. If they actually give him up at the trade deadline, how can you give this guy up? You still have to pay NBA players. This guy is an incredible complimentary player on both ends.

obviously offensively the three-point shot, but he was working it into step backs, creating his own threes yesterday, and that role has expanded with Dennis Schroeder gone. So I don't see why you would trade him. He's just an incredible player, period. On the defensive end, he is such a good player. I mean, I can see why any sort of contender would want him.

on the wings. So it is, yeah, Ziggy on the stream team, keep good players, solid concept. It's so weird to see this team in all these rumors. I know they're just rumors, but to possibly be trading anybody on their roster. In terms of depth, though, I can see it. This guy is needed on a

But just looking at their roster, looking at who they pay, I think Cam Johnson at the deal that he's got right now would be extremely good to keep around, period. Let's move on to the Magic Raptors game. Why the heck not? Because they had their City Edition floor. Of course I was into it. It's like you look at it now, 30 years later, it's like backy jeans being back.

Are they great? Eh, it's more about nostalgia, really. I don't think baggy jeans are all that great. And this court, I don't think is all that incredibly good either. But I was into it. And Raptors get off to a slow start, down double digits, coming into this game. They were 0-27 when trailing by 10 plus points. Now they're 1-27. Shout out to my girl Keeks on Twitter for that stat right there.

1-27 when trailing by 10-plus points this season. They look like more of an NBA team. To watch Scotty Barnes do what he was doing yesterday, he is a threat from the middle of the floor, especially against the zone. Just give him the ball, watch him go. He's got such great passing abilities. Eight helpers in this one, 17 points, 11 boards, and eight assists. And an incredible block. But when he is their guy, their main two guy,

uh you can see how many assists that guy creates 29 assists for him excuse me for the raptors and the one on the grady dick dunk as uh matt devlin said a dunk by dick uh on that catch in the corner and then he drove in beautiful stuff now were the raps doing a little

trade showcase here with kelly olenek looking beautiful out there he was a point guard as a kid because so you could see him he had a big little pick and roll with bruce brown and so those two guys doing a pick and roll together i could understand why people say uh yeah somebody go get bruce brown it is an interesting contract it's a monstrous contract but he did look good 10 points in the first quarter 15 points five rebounds and five assists

he needs to be on a great team and when he is on a great team

He can be that complimentary guy because he is that motor. And when he's the tertiary offense, when a play doesn't work on one side, a play doesn't work on the other, the dude can drive and make things happen. So 15-5-5 for that guy in that game. And then Kelly Olenek had four blocks. Four blocks. Is he showcasing over the next couple weeks? I wouldn't be sad to see Kelly Olenek go. He's been traded three times in his career. So I don't think he really wants to be dealt.

That being said, I'm sure a championship team says we could use some depth. And he is a little slow. Defensively, get him in space. I totally get that. At the same time, he can add a lot as a ball handler, playmaker, assist guy. And again, those blocks, he shows that he could do it on both sides. And then there's Bruce. So I think Bruce would be a guy that can get...

dealt and that would make a little bit more more sense. But he you know, he is showcasing it. I think we got our guy TK gonna come in here if I'm seeing these chats. We got tech difficulties. But yeah, I think we'll give it a shot.

I'm watching it in the background. Here, let me add. Oh, let's see what this. What do you think, TK? You think this will work? Which one are you popping in of me, Tav? The phone. Oh, okay. The phone, yeah. Can you hear me? I can, yeah. And then we can. Oh, I was going to say add your other mic when we edit. It doesn't matter. It's telling me system overload. My computer literally is like, you're doing too much, man. Oh, it's all right. We can hear you totally fine.

All right. Well, what are you talking about? The Raptors? Congratulations to them. Yeah, we were basically killed the last two games of a pretty regular night with Knicks Nets just coming down to the wire. If you got anything to add for that game or the the Raps magic.

I would say good for Jalen Brunson's clutch player of the year case. The win last night against the Nets didn't have a great game, scored Nick eight of the next last 10 points, basically two man game with him in towns every single time. Like to see that as for the Raptors, I was more concerned, uh,

on the other side of things the magic of law six of their last seven their one win was pretty ugly against philadelphia with no and bead they're now two and seven without jaylen suggs in the lineup there dropped down into the play-in tournament not great stuff for them uh and then of course the lakers smoked the wizards oh yeah i said those are the last two games but the lakers did play the wizards

Lakers smoked the Wizards. Big dunk by LeBron. Anthony Davis, don't call me, Colel Ware, 29.16 rebounds. Big time oop for LeBron on Jonas Valanciunas as well. Sorry to leave you hanging there, buddy, but I know you were cooking on the nuggets. Yeah, I was cooking on the nuggets. I really feel like they're ready. I mean, maybe I'm just buying the Russell Westbrook could get a title narrative opportunity.

And I definitely worry about their defense and their depth is questionable, but I do like the, the dropping of Aaron Gordon to the bench to just run everything through him. Cause Julius Strother is working pretty well beside him and they, they need to be really good. So it is questionable because beside those two, you're going to be relying on Peyton Watson and Deandre Jordan, if AG or Strother's having a bad game and Strother's such a young guy that could happen. But again,

I think they could just push Aaron Gordon to the starting lineup or at least closing lineup. So there's lots of options. I think Michael Malone is working it pretty well. Yep. I'm a little...

to buy into Westbrook as a playoff guy, but this is the best he's looked since the OKC days. So maybe he will prove me wrong come postseason time, but that's still a ways away. We got trade deadline to tackle, and for us, Tess, we got to go step on the beach. You got the buds. I got the rockets. You got the nuts. I got the chocolates. We got that chit-chat down pat, blah, blah, blah. You got that certain special, je ne sais quoi. Let's go!

Yeah, baby. Let's do this beach thing. I got the first one here, Trey. Brethren. The boys are on the beach.

Help me settle a debate I recently had among some of my sicko friends regarding who the most exciting player in the league is today. We cannot reach a consensus. One said Steph because of his prolific shooting outbursts and generational change he's had on the game. One said Ant because of his athleticism, cockiness, and vicious posters. And one said Wemby because of his defensive prowess and unrivaled shooting touch at his size. Unrivaled shooting touch. Well,

Well done. I personally think it's Joss simply because the Westbrook slash D-Rose slash Baron Davis slash Steve Francis archetype is so fascinating and it's incredible to see someone under 6'3 consistently provide all-time highlights and creativity above the rim. Curious what y'all think. Cheers. That is from Ramez, the most exciting player in the league to date.

This is a tough question, but I think Ramez nailed four of them. Ant has got to be in the mix. Steph Curry has got to be in the mix. His highs maybe are the most exciting to me, like a Curry takeover, a Curry flurry. Super exciting. Wemby, must-see TV. And then for me, John Morant is the most exciting player going right now. I definitely agree with what Ramez says there.

just the standard Westbrook, Derrick Rose, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, the young guy or the small guard who can fly and who is fearless driving into the rim, I think is super exciting. That's why I had Ja Morant a little bit ahead of Anthony Edwards from a watchability standpoint, just because I feel like

Ja is so much more focused on being in the lane, whereas Anthony Edwards, we know, has developed his three-point shot and is going to it as a weapon this season. Ant can be one of the most frustrating guys to watch in clutch time, I think. But for me, I would have Ja Morant as the top guy. What about you?

Yeah, as a basketball geek who consumes basketball every single night, I think you're right in terms of the most exciting player making the most highlights, the most exciting poster-worthy type moments. It's John Morant. I did find this question interesting because all the guys mentioned, Steph, Wemby, Ja, Ant, they're at a different point of their career where there's

All this parody happening in the NBA and that there's no one really taking the NBA by storm and winning or being the number one dominant team and having the best player. There's just so many good players like Steph is older. Wemby's super young and hasn't achieved a lot. Ja also kind of...

Coming off that injury season and off-court issues and Ant being pushed as more of a league leader and potentially being the face of the league. You've got all these guys at different points and lots of parity. When I was having conversations with guys this weekend who aren't super geeks like us, they're wondering, is there something...

Not as tantalizing about the NBA right now. They weren't as excited game to game, night to night about things. And I wonder if parity is a bit of an issue with that. The Steph and LeBron thing at the end of their careers. But also, in the same light, all these guys are incredible players. And I think Ja for us is probably...

the most talented leading the league in highlights and that kind of thing. But he's also playing these games which aren't nationally televised quite a lot and has had those other issues. So we're just at this point where...

there's so many like Jokic wasn't even mentioned here. And I know he's not air quotes exciting, but yeah, I mean, being able to watch him do so many things like the old heads, let's look at that and say that dude is ridiculous at what he can do. So I don't know. There's just, it was, it was hard to really pick one, but being a geek watching it every night, I think jaw is a good pick.

Yeah, I did think it was kind of interesting that Ramez didn't pick Shea Gildress Alexander or Jokic. None of him or his buddies had the top two MVP candidates in the mix here, though. I would think that they are a little bit lower than these guys on maybe the straight up entertaining scale. You got to have a...

You got to have a palette to watch it. Like, do you like watching Shea Gilgis, Alexander's herky jerky game and the angles that he creates to get, uh, his finishes inside? Do you like the way Jokic just can grab a board inside of four, uh, defenders and put up a sloppy layup? I do. Um,

but they are, you know, more subtle games than some of the guys like jaw or ant. And then certainly when B is an outlier as well, as for the, maybe not identifying with common or casual fans quite as much. I think,

part of it is that every NBA player is really, really good right now. You know, you can see a highlight on Twitter of Grayson Allen doing a layup that only Michael Jordan could do in the 1990s. And everybody's like, oh, I thought this was supposed to be a good layup. It's because everybody is good. Michael Jordan introduced it. So now,

a brian scalabrini up and under reverse maybe isn't as special as it was 30 years ago when there was five guys capable of doing it if the tenth man is as good as the you know tenth best player in 1994 maybe it rattles off differently but i got a couple other names that i would throw in the mix for very exciting players to watch i think lamello ball

The most unexpected guy out there. You never know what he's going to do. Highlight passes, one-foot threes, shots that nobody thinks are good and that often go in. He's got to be in the mix. For me, Giannis Antetokounmpo is a guy I know not everybody loves that just –

run and dunk style of game as James Harden called it. But I personally love the way he can dominate just dunking. It's very much like Shaq to me. And then Zach Levine is a guy I think that is underrated from a watchability standpoint. Deep threes off the dribble, obviously still runs in full court and can dunk really well. I don't know if there's anything else you would like to add. Well, I think you hit it home when you said

Maybe there's just too many good NBA players for those people who are just casually watching and say, what's going on? I mean, maybe it's just kind of they wash each other out like it's just too much goodness happening in today's NBA. It was interesting. I heard Cam Johnson and Sue Bird on a podcast. It was on the Young Man and the Three podcast, and they're basically talking about

The whole idea that there's too much three-point shooting in the NBA and Cam Johnson was basically saying, I love three-point shooting. And I'm almost... That's the only skill I want to show at times. He's basically saying, that's my thing. And I want to do it. And I think there are a lot of young people who obviously are shooting like that. And people are saying, well, they shoot too much like that. I'm talking about kids in their rec leagues and stuff. But...

I think kind of like YouTubers in general, there's just so many different things that are popular, so many splinted different directions. And so I think there's just a bunch of different ways that people play and a bunch of different ways that people are popular. Like you said about dunkers, etc. And maybe I'm just hanging out with the wrong people who just say, well...

NBA ain't all that exciting or what's the problem with the NBA? But it's I think you do bring up a good point that maybe everybody's just too damn talented in today's NBA. We need to get players worse so that us common men can identify with the players. Moving on. Our next email. It comes to us.

from philip who says greetings no dunkers with d-low back on the nets now and boyan bogdanovich back as well it got me thinking what's your all second stint team that's a great question i immediately think of hardcore role players when i think of guys who went back to the same team but after looking at it it's clear the one who is the best one

is LeBron. You almost forget about that he went back to Cleveland. So if I'm starting a five, it's LeBron. And then there's a couple oldies that I'd put on the team. Kevin Garnett went back to the Minnesota Timberwolves. Scotty Pippen went back to the Chicago Bulls, just basically to retire, play a few games and retire. And then the other two I'd have in my starting five

Are Trevor Ariza with the Houston Rockets? Because that guy was incredible and an NBA champion with the Lakers and was able to bounce around and try and win championships. People have said, OK, I mean, this guy is perfect. And my last starting five to go with LeBron KG, Pippen and Trevor Ariza is Anthony Tolliver.

Because he'd just be a good three-point shooter. You'd just hang out and you'd shoot that three. So that's my starting five.

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and we should throw in Steve Nash as it's being thrown in here because it's similar to sort of Jason Kidd his literally his second stint with the Phoenix Suns was that incredible incredible run so shout out to everybody here in the stream team I totally you know skip my mind skip my brain there no good here in the stream team way to throw it in there moving on here let's jump into the uh

Pick'em payoff. Last night we had Toronto hosting the Orlando Magic at plus 3.5. They covered. So Skeets did alright. Tass did alright. Trey and Esh got that one wrong. Skeets now up to 3.9. So we'll see if he's going to have to do this January pick'em payoff. Sure looks that way. Tonight's game, it's Boston at the Clippers. Plus 9.5. Clippers at home.

That's a lot of points to give them. So Skeets, Trey, and myself are taking the Clippers. Ash, were you forced to take Boston or what? I was in the dock early, but I had to pick Boston. You know, I'm a Boston guy. I got to pick Boston. Yeah, to win by 10 or more. You've got a three-game lead here on Skeets as we're getting closer to the end of January. Do you feel confident to pull them off? I'm going to say yeah, but not really. Okay.

But I think he mentioned a couple weeks ago the way my record has been going overall. I haven't won a month, but I haven't lost a month. So I'm just trying to kind of stay mid. If I stay mid, then I never lose. Yeah. I always brag about that. In years past when I didn't lose for like four years, that was my biggest accomplishment. Not losing. You had to be out in the cold for last month. But hopefully I won't fall down to below skeets in this one.

Yeah, well, I don't know about you living in the South, Ash, but when I came down here, I was hardly wearing a jacket. Like, I was trying to tough it out every single winter. But now, because I had to do those shows, I've relearned how to dress again. And so, that's almost a blessing in disguise, you know? I'm always cold. I'm always freezing. So, I mean, they always say that the cold down in Georgia is different than other places because of the humidity. But I've heard a lot, so...

Maybe that's what it is. That's an eye roll from me. I mean, it has gotten really cold. So that'll be what determines if we will be doing a show tomorrow together in the factory. We've got some guests coming in from an even colder country that are coming from Canada. So yeah,

We will have them on a Friday show. That's the plan anyway. And hopefully we will be together tomorrow. But for now, Clipper Bros. You heard it here first. Have a great time. Turn up. Love you guys. Awesome. Thanks for joining us. And remember, cold is just a mindset. Figured that out last week. It's all up here. It's all up here, Ash.

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