181. “We argue about money daily b/c he can’t stop talking about Ramit”
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life and give more of a like, I want to get this done really quickly. He's the lift doors, so we want to check things .

off with I analytical want to make sure that the money that I calculated in our retirement is going to meet the goal that I have.

Ninon is a thirty five old dentist, and he's the ultimate warrior.

I have insecurity, and I think that that's why I am always looking for validation.

Linda is thirty seven years old, and he spends a lot of energy helping Nathan feel OK about their finances.

We're very trust about money just because we can spend the way that we used to IT spend. A big change.

I think we do Carries caused arguments between him. His life has gone to the roof, and he's desperate to get my take on their finances.

I learned some new bit of information, and then I go out and Linda.

he just wants anything to chill out. I think prioritize .

different thing. I want anything to tell more secure in the decisions .

that we've made us a family page and see the actual amazing reality of their finances. What you call research is really just worry disguised as homework. IT just adds more and more stress because again.

stress is like, I think, man, and just really well prepared. And then when you come in.

you like your that.

Are we have Nathan and Linda say we bought a new house now our mortgage has doubled, expenses the same, and he won't stop spending. We'd like for me to help us with our conscious spending plane to see where we can cut. We are unable to stop talking about money every day. huh? why? Oh, we have talked about, remember, for the last three weeks, nonstop. fantastic. What's the problem? I will see any problem here.

Won't take a look at the C. S. P. What's assets? Two point three million dollars.

why? Why they sound so alarmed already? What the hell? Why this happened to me every time there there thirties, all right, investments, six hundred ninety four thousand dollars. By the way, S P has a lot of writing on IT like a lot.

You find this with people who um they really feel the need to get every detail out and like it's supposed to be a spreadsheet with a few numbers, not a frequent esa on the right side, all right savings seven nine thousand dollars. Det one point five million OK is as their business and their home interesting and then total that worth one point five million are very good at in their thirties. Okay, let's take a look at the income.

Thirty thousand dollars a month. okay? So three hundred, six, five thousand dollars year ah.

What fix cost at seventy six percent? No way. It's one thing. If your fixed cost are sixty two or sixty three percent when you have a household income of fifty five thousand dollars, right? Things are expensive.

Bread would be proportionally expensive if one of you is making twenty dollars year, but making three hundred sixty five thousand doors year and having seventy six percent fix costs, that's typically overspending. This csp has people's fingerprints all over. And what I can already tell is that because they have so many categories, explanations for every single line, they are way deep in the weeds.

And they are missing the big picture like their csp is basically double the link of every other csp because they just added a bunch of stuff. Maybe I need to lock the csp so you can add any more. Rose, I never had this situation before, but I think we need to make a change sometimes.

Weird here. Okay, I have a note from my producer asked them how many times they applied to the podcast. All right, we'll find out this is a very interesting C.

S. P. But I feel like I have to be pretty direct on today's call. I'll see you what happens.

I was sitting in my basement just alone and you know, I I heard about you and so I applied. And then I play in her name, and then I played in my name again. And I like her name, and I more applied, uh, your team would be like, you know, this guy serious, but I would be loved to mother show.

how many times did do you apply? I think that's kind of weird, right?

Yeah, I am pretty like that sometimes. And then I take joy in the, I have a goal in mind. I have always pushed really hard to get IT, and I was trying to create .

my a are you impulsive? no. Oh, well, look at the body language. He says, no, she's not in furiously OK all right. Um so you fill out the application and spoke to my colleague and Linda, what did you think of this?

I want them to feel more to care in the decision that we'd made IT as a family. I think he's lost a little bit faith and I especially then we moved and so i'm here to support him. I hope that could help him get some faith back, because history is shown us that at, we do to have faith in each other. But you know, they have been a big change for that, though I think we can.

So let's talk about what happens.

Six months ago, we thought our dream, how OK we had a 3 and we had a three percent to um in our old house， though IT is different monthly payment and going into buying the plant, the how we came up with a strategy because we knew that integrates would eventually come down. And we talk with lender and came up with the plan refinance thing that we put out alone. You've refinance and so are just waiting for the interest to come down.

And and once we get toward goal of save about fifteen hundred dollars a month, that our mortgage and that will get up to a place where we feel more comfortable, we're favor. And I need saving more until I think when we look at like what we're saving now. But but you save IT different .

when you say you're a saver, finished the sentence for me, i'm a saver and if i'm not saving, then I am.

If i'm not saving, I don't have money to make a college and have retirement money in savings for health projects. We're not saving as much we used to them. We just can't do the thing that I have in my mind. And they I just know.

Nathan, do you agree?

We came together, we go, look, we like to to move out of our neighborhood. We like to, you know, this is going to be a bigger house and in this can be a bigger, a more age.

And I think that in the time, and yeah I think like that, the three one I do and then so we we make we make the world buy IT and then I hear you know I am doing research and I um you know see one year power chest that says, hey, this is how you can figure out you can afford house and then I go up, shoot, Linda, like, we didn't look at that. We get to calculate that. And then I get nerves.

Do you even look at this? Do we do this? And then I I break out a little bit and he was like when we we were embarked on this together, now you're kind of moving the globs on us and and that's where we are you and that's where um where I think that he goes hey, you've lost space before us because look, I know our finances too. We don't do at the same you you are reading, remember book you're doing all these things and how I get there is different than how remember or you are getting .

there is is your fight about me?

That's what that sounds like every like every night that okay, talk about a replay as IT pertained to vacation in the next five years. And what I like that is not you want to talk about a with life often OK, but even one of you that we did have a financial advisor that we talk to prior to buying this house that gave us a max mortgage and we're actually lower the max. So I think you sometimes forget that we you have talked to experts about our financial decisions. We haven't made our decisions than a vacuum.

And a good decision involves lots of different inputs, not just one, not just one person, not just one book, lots of different perspectives. And then ultimately, you decide what's right for your individual situation.

I have a comment to make, and it's not gonna be the one you think, you know, a lots of people make an impulsive decision to buy a house and then they dive in headfirst to much larger costs as they freak out because suddenly they don't have anything left over at the end of the month, which happened because, you know, they didn't run the numbers before they made the biggest financial decision of their lives. But that's not what's happening here. anything.

And Linda did run the numbers. They even spoke of the financial advisor who gave them to go ahead. And so everything was seemingly fine until they can found new information. My book, my podcast, and that has his second guessing himself. My first stock is that Nathan is impulsive.

My clues are that he applied almost ten times to my podcast because he's questioning everything based on reading some new book and because he's treating the idea of a rich life as a task that should be talked about every single night. Now, this is the beginning of a real problem, because there will always be new information that contradicts a decision you make. I constantly get messages in instagram and other D. M.

Platforms with people saying, what do you think about this thing? What do you think about apple credit card? They're going to constantly be second guessing themselves for the rest of their lives. What you really need to do is to develop a deeply rooted confidence in your decision making, and you get that confidence through competence. Now I have to say, I also curious about lind's reaction to Nathan lined.

The way you talk about this situation feels very casual like, you know, we got a bigger house and we kind of knew IT going in and like, yes, just an adjustment for us. There's that. And then Nathan sounds a little bit more like i'm freaking out a bit.

I didn't run the numbers properly now. Not sure. okay. There's that. And then there's the application on the application one out of ten.

How serious is this eight? We have talked about remote for the last three weeks non stop. We keep fighting because of IT what's .

going on here, me. We need to rain back on spending. We are able to buy whatever we wanted was over in the last house until we can kind of go through our financial plan, which is gonna take about a year until I industry to come down during the time we bought to how we have to be more conscious of IT.

And I think sometimes need then good more of a like, I want to get this done really quickly. He got three to checking out of the live, and I don't know that we can do that as much thought. We do complex sometimes about .

that waiting later.

I'm very analytical, want to make sure that the money that I calculated in our retirement is going to meet the goals that I have for A A family. Part of the reason that I get nerve. So I don't know if this is just me.

You're not what? As somebody who is an a minority in U S. Culture, especially in an asian mail, as an american, I have insecurity and I think that that's why i'm always looking for validation.

Very insightful. okay? I appreciate the self awareness, um Linda, is that strike you is true.

I think we're very truck about money just because we can then the way that we use to read me like I will say that I was not a conscious about our spending when we were in the last test, because we could applause to not be.

This sounds like every american, like, literally, this is the american story. Oh, IT was the two of us, maybe a little baby. And then we were living large, we rented, or we had a small little house eat out, and we would travel.

And IT was fantastic. And we got a big house because we're americans. And then, oh, h, we can spend all the money we used to because we have to repair our. Is this not the classic americana story?

Yes, but we're in the suburb now. we. Are on a tree with a bunch of cared like we plan on thing here forever. So we're like sort of cultivating a childhood for our there's .

nothing wrong with IT. I'm just saying it's not that surprising. Like of course, you'd can spend as much you much bigger house at a much higher interest rate. Like, yeah, what's the surprise here?

How shall I would 第一天 我 step back is so it's been .

harder than you thought to cut back on spending。 okay. Nathan is saying I need validation.

I'm not sure if we have made the right decision, right? What else? what? I think .

we've priorities different. Things like my focus is more getting the kids that they need. And his book is getting the house.

What IT needs me. So between the two, things were like trying to take care of things done, our different pair then, small ticket. I don't that add up in our harder to kite. I just thought a backpack for my son, the backpacks to go to school.

Al, how much was the backpack for your little one who's wet, four years old? Two, two, how much was IT forty dollars?

And what about.

you know thing? What are you spending money on?

Most the stuff is kind of for our house or romance of our elected, you know, placing golf very long as getting a fertilizer, as getting a mulch. And the old traps.

how much for this mode traps, I have to .

know for a two back .

fifty box food, okay. And how many of those do you need to get to? Two or three? You get to talk to someone who doesn't know any of the words we're using right now. How often do you .

have to get these if if you reuse IT arrive.

i'm gna get roasted so hard online rome said, doesn't know about more IT .

was in IT was in the cost of the motor to need mindset around spending. We already paid the old people to get rid .

of the old 喂 OK 好， are we talking about M O L D like dog or M O L E E E? Okay, wow, this is hilarious moves. Who you are right? Um okay. So you don't like that. He's being wasteful by buying duplicate mall traps are, listen, do you like feel any particular way about a her purchases?

He really likes to do rd well which is sustainable recycling um and he likes to buy organic for graphs in front of and for the longest time with referee bills being being high here and those those things I I don't love IT I always say like do behalf to get these things like I feel like we can get a brockley that's not organic in or just we just fine so and so he gets upset to that um that SHE like this is really important to me like eating what he says is healthy. You which you know I agree to a certain degree, but when IT parts bottom lines, sometimes I go look at something that we can we can cut out.

Do you all have an agreement on how much you should be spending? Like basically, do you use a csp?

We know what our budget there. S and and we have lowered our monthly by like two hundred dollars a month.

H wow, two hundred box, the magic number. I appreciate that's a great example. Not making fun of you. I appreciated because pretty much everyone who comes on here can lower their gross bill and everybody plays, oh, there's no way to meet.

So at a touch, when was the last time you shop for I go look, nobody even knows their numbers when they go to the grow store. If you literally just say I want to save fifty box, you can save fifty box, almost everybody. That's pretty cool.

You said a goal, you save two hundred box. That's awesome. I appreciate IT. All right. Um I think we need to just look at the numbers honestly. So first of all, who what was he like filling out the csp together?

I mean, we talk about money out. So I think that is just like getting you down on paper.

And who wrote all the words on the csp? What up, man? You know, four hundred paragraphs. I'm like, no wonder they don't feel good about money.

okay? I just need to explain what i'm seeing here without even reading a single number on their csp. I can see clear day that naked and Linda are over complicating their finances.

There are hundred notes in the margins. A, C, S, P, is supposed to be simple. Athens explanation helps me understand that he's actually not just being impulsive, these anxious and he's insecure about things beyond money.

And his csp is just a in fact, his entire financial set up is just a symptom. In the meantime, Linda seems okay with this, but I wont tell you, I would not be. At what point do you actually start to feel good about money right now? My suspicion is that nation will never feel good about IT.

Let me take a look their numbers after a quick break. Watching someone use microsoft outlook is like watching a boomer give career advice is just so out of touch. No, i'm not going to walk around the mall and hand over my resume, and i'm not going to drag email into different folders.

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Basically parting. The reason of wanting to dup on here too, is so that I can get all of this out and then I can go live my life.

Hold on, you guys talk about money. Every single day you come home at night you go untired. Let's talk about our rich life, right? What seems like maybe the issue isn't to csp.

but something deeper. I've went over the csp four times. This called just making sure that everything was tight everything I everything but its funny I thought to me, i'm like, man, i'm just really well prepared. And then when you come in, you like your and I think about IT.

you start to see some links. So applying ten times um writing like extremely exhaustive details. First of all, why is there a line item for a diver when it's one hundred dollars per month? And then two, there's a description next to IT like I don't know what dippers are environmentally conscious brand din what's the need to exit about?

yeah. So I put on the divers there because I know that we send IT regularly go. Okay, so this is a cost because we regularly do that.

And then as I was going down and I was like, what is this? Should this all go under fifteen percent missile's? And then so I think I wrote the sustainability park because I would go to costco by decor. But he wants to get sustainable date words.

I think that the C. S. P leaves fingerprints of every person and couple that fills IT out. Every couple fills IT out differently. When I look at this csp, what do you think I see?

Ety.

yes, anxiety. What else? Clinging onto every detail. Why I think we going through .

right now, we like we're not youth to having to think about our spending. And so now that we do, I it's been a big changes that I think we do Carry like that interest.

When we first met, I was thinking about spending all the time. You, I, I still think about standing all time.

And it's funny because my parents like, why is so stress? So i'm like because you made me stressed, they came um from vietor during the war time they all they had was the degrees on their back and they go look like we like you get ahead in your life because your degrees, they can never take that away from you um and then but now they're like why you so stressed in or they are go here and we didn't teach you to be cheat. We we thought you be frubber and IT just I think it's funny like i'm .

a product of you guys so yeah it's true you are a product of them, of course, but you also get the chance to turn the page to the next chapter of your life. I know i'm taking small.

I want to think big and I want to get Better in IT. I I think we're right. I appreciate myself is like, you know, done therapy I do I team always looking to continue to improve and I think but partly with my insecurity of doing the right thing, you know, I might take IT too far dance.

I appreciate that. I think you're pretty self aware. I mean, I I think you have both hit upon what this C S.

P. Reveals to me. IT reveals anxiety above and beyond everything else. And that is manifested through, like the csp is easily double two to three times longer than anyone else. Is csp way too many categories? It's overleap precise, and that's not the point.

Anxiety causes you to go deeper and deeper and deeper into the weeds to look for precision, as if the meaning of life is to get more precise on your csp. That's not the meaning of a rich life. The meaning of a rich life is is to design IT and then to use your money to live IT.

IT will be very difficult to live a rich life if you are constantly down in the three doors weeds OK. So that's the first thing that reveals. Second to reveals micro management, like if we control everything that nothing will get by us, almost like trying to stop the ocean from flooding by holding your arms out can never happen.

And three ages reveals chaos to me. When I think i've calm, cool and collected with money. I think of someone who's fu IT.

They know their numbers. What's our income? What's our net?

Are we saving enough? What's our savings? Investment in acid allocation? When are we gonna a million? Those key numbers and the rest of IT, we can be fluid. We can have IT live somewhere, but not have to control IT all the time. How's that strike you, Nathan?

When I don't have that control or those devers that I want to wake up like, oh my god, I put enough to V T S A X. And you know, I miss out on on the opportunity class. Three years we had a finial advisor who was doing one percent, and then will will be all I read this book, don't do you one percent.

And like, oh my gosh, I need to take back rol of my money because that's what happens if I, I let IT cost things like that slip by me. That could be eating culture too. They go, look, if you're an controller thing, you're not to miss on anything.

You know, what is happened there? What did I say first? And then what was your response?

How do you feel about this then? I wanted to .

a host I want to kind of tried to retaliate, ate the dynamic right now. What might be another answer you give me before we hear the answer? I need a quick favor from you. If you enjoying the show, please hit to describe button IT really helps me .

and my team think about that, something I can try. nice.

Here's another alternative advance you might give. Oh my gosh, I never thought about. I like that. Now that you point IT out, I noticed that the reason I have fifty lines in the fixed cost area is that i'd feel I have to control everything. Maybe the first thing I can do is to focus on five key numbers and not worry about those things that I used to worry about. See the difference in that answer .

yeah looking ahead and not looking back like he said, but so tough as it's just not natural for me to .

do that just because something nature, nature, the first whatever. And what might be a different way to say is, wow, here's what I could try going forward doesn't mean you have to get that perfect is just here's like a try. And I just totally real characterises the way that you're talking about yourself.

You're not stuck in the past. You define your future. Let's look at, look the numbers in the C.

S. P. So here we go. We pull up the csp. Linda, why don't you read the word in bold? And then the full number .

next to the two point three million investments are six ninety four thousand savings, seventy nine thousand. And that is one point five no .

end total worth .

one point five no end.

Okay, one point five million in your thirties. How do you all feel about that?

I feel like black a little bit of fit because we've gotten here, we've done the work. And I think sometimes I thought of to have more faith and a more emotional about some of our decision that Nathan is more analytical so he can sometimes struggle that if I don't do like all the big long calculation.

what was my question to 文章？

I feel good. I feel good about.

why do I, why do I talk to every depressed millionaire in the country on the show? What time is wrong with everybody? Linda, did you know, is what you just .

did downplay that? Where do we have that much money?

yeah. And what else? What did you do instead?

Look at a problem. Yeah.

you're a typical american living in the suburb who has a lot of money. And somebody goes, oh my god, what a beautiful a, uh kitchen. Oh well, you know, the problem was the calicut a marvel from italy is so crazy how long IT takes are trying to give you a compliment, one point five million dollars in your thirties and the question is, how do you feel about that? Let's try. And again, Linda.

I feel that we work hard for that.

Oh, that's a good answer. okay. And how do you feel about that?

I launch.

sure. K, that's honest. Go on. It's currently because .

of the world we live in, and it's always getting more and more so one point five, you know I know that that's but more than you know a lot of lot of people but is that enough for what um is that good started for where you want to take? Alright.

listen, i'm well aware how absurd sounds for millionaire in their thirties to talk about how unsure they are if they have enough. And yet, this is real. A lot of people don't have that kind of money, but they believe that some magical day when they have more, they'll suddenly feel good about IT.

As you heard on the show, just having more money does not change how you feel about IT. There are also a lot of people with money or a house or a beautiful family who's still worry. That's not stupid and that's not absurd.

That's human. I think it's a beautiful thing to listen to people's worries, to meet them where they are and in some cases, tell them, hey, your feelings might be real, but they are out of sink with reality. And that's the last tactic I want to point out to you.

You'll notice that both of them answer in terms of problems, often in terms of the past. How do you feel? Well, it's OK, but i'm not sure i'll be enough.

And when I was Younger, I always sometimes the best thing you can do is to notice your thought patterns and your speech patterns and change them because our language often becomes our destiny like this. They might say, i'm really proud of how far we've come. I still feel anxious about my future, but my top goal right now is to appreciate where we are as a family.

You strugling to connect your feelings, right? Yeah, yeah, I get IT as an indian guy like I totally get IT somewhat similar are bringing, i'm sure, not really not taught about how to connect with their feelings. I noticed because when I ask you how you feel, you give me a thinking answer. In fact, you pivoted to, are we going to have enough, which is a mathematical question. Talk about this with your therapies.

Yeah, I mean, what just came up to my head was you come home when and you get to eat my ice and your dads like.

why do you go to a yeah happened all the time. I'm sure we both know a lot of people who grew up with similar up brains, right? Parents kind of like a plus that's expected all that interesting that some people take well to that, right? And they're like, yeah, I like to work or I have high expectations and whatever. And I think one of the things that I hear from you, you told me, is I constantly need reassurance that i'm doing right, which I hundred percent traces back to, you know.

childhood talking to the definitely always the the central part of me, and that we talk about in a lot of times ago. Here you are enough.

You are enough already without even looking at all the millions of dollars you have. You don't believe IT though.

The other doesn't believe that if I am the one that tells him he need to hear from somebody other than hearing them from your love.

you're like, yeah, my love. And you have to tell me that when you hear from other people, it's different.

What Linda said is really interesting, like he may have the exact math that I have, but you're gonna listen unless you hear IT from what a financial advisor, a guy who wrote a best selling book at sara. And you know, while it's cool, we get the chance to talk in life. Ultimately, what makes you successful is to be able to pass what's going on and then make most live the time the right decision for yourselves.

It's like, hey, if we compound one point five million dollars for forty years or thirty years, how much will we have? You can run that. What is the tell you? Will you have enough? IT says around .

anywhere from the sites. I've gone seven to nine, nine.

That enough .

right now, it's enough.

Alright, what is the number? That's enough. Is there a .

number partly like ten little?

okay. What's the difference between seven and ten?

So what i've tried to do is calculate OK. What is college going to be for for my kids but so I have two kids I want to have the option to pay for. My kids calls they needed, I guesting they're onna have two kids um each so that's four kids want to give them a long as sag they need IT want to give up my uh my kids, uh, some downed ment for a house if they need IT you honestly, for these things that my parents were able to do as refugees. You know I I sad or nervous that I won't be able to necessarily do the same things that they are able to do for their weekends.

And to what do you think hearing this?

I have faith that we will be able to now, right? Like, yeah, you try to make the best decision with the information you have at the time. But if you make the wrong decision, I think we prove in over the past eight years that we've been together that we can click those decision. And so I struggle that he doesn't have that thing thing and that he Carried the matching the idea about all of these things because I don't necessarily agree that we won't be able to provide all these things for our kids and grandkids.

I'm just writing down a few words I just heard from you. I just want to point something out. We're sitting here.

Document your C. S. P. We haven't even gotten to the income yet.

The words that you both use to describe the current situation is sad, struggle, lost faith and have confidence. We're all looking at the exact same numbers OK. And this is the beautiful and confusing part of money psychology.

We are all looking at the same numbers. And all three of us see something completely different. How can that be?

So part of IT is that we've been marketing out everything that we can for the past couple of years, and we are not currently making those things out.

And if you. Not magazine things out. IT makes you, according to your own definition as a saver a what, I don't know, a failure.

Think about when we were matching everything out and we were like doing everything we should. Neither was not riddled with things. That idea about IT as he currently, but seems we thought doing what we're used to and we're forget more on more short term gains than long term gains. They think it's been a struggle.

Give me example what happened.

Anything been a lot of time in the conscious spending plan. But then I don't necessarily think when he like hit button on amazon and he .

loves the conscious spending plan, but he also loves spending on science. Sly, okay, go on.

In this coming year, we sort of made the decisions we made in order to get our forever home and build display poor children. So we have to like be more conscious of what we're buying and be more aware where we're putting our money. And like in .

you guys are not in the point you're stuck in the weeds, your stuck in the tactics. We are three of us looking at the same exact numbers. One of us, Nathan, is going, this is a disaster.

I'm worried, i'm stressed how i'm gonna have enough to pay for my great grandchildren's college graduate school like there's no way i'm sad that I can't do IT sad. That's the word you use name and sad talking about one point five million or network in you're thirties. I'm sad that I can do something for people who are not even born yet.

Your kids, kids, i'm not kidding. This is, this is what you said. Then we have Linda who's going well.

He worries a lot. We are spending a lot and it's stressful. And you know like we are he's spending unconciously. okay. So there's that it's like a lot of like he, he, he, it's good, but it's also bad.

And then there's me going what is going on right now like when I calculated this, I easily calculated a eleven million dollars at retirement. Like I didn't even do anything. I just pug in the exact numbers you have in its eleven million.

I didn't talk about your assets, selling your assets. That's way more money too. Eleven million bucks and I go, yeah, you're spending is a little high, but there are some obvious reasons why we can fix and ten minutes.

But here's the point. You are looking at the world through a set of lenses, Nathan, where you are always exclusively going to see the downside. Like you could have twenty million dollars right now and you would not be happy.

You would be worried. What would you be saying at twenty million? I don't know. There's a lot of risk, are paying up too much in investment fees. What about our kids trust costs a lot of money. And the question I have, please, do you want to go the rest of your life feeling bad about your money?

no.

Are you sure boston? okay. Who are you if you're not worrying about money?

I'm lazy. I'm um somebody who's not striving me Better. Yeah.

because in your mind, the opposite of worrying is lazy Linda, what is IT for you? like? Yeah, that's how, that's how is for most people, anything the opposite of worrying is relaxed, calm.

But for you, because you you not only were raise worrying probably, but you have now come to actually thrive on IT. Like think about IT. You come home from work and you go C S P time.

I'm worried and that gives you that feeling. Doesn't like I have a purpose. I'm worrying.

And now you're not just working for yourself. You're worrying for your family and your great grandchildren. I'm worrying because that's what I do as a man. That's my job is to worry and provide for five generations forward that if I took away the worry from and who, what would IT leave vulnerable .

ability and like, oh gosh, and fully exposed. Now, this is who I am. Is this .

the act?

Is dinner gonna .

cut in here? Because this is such a powerful statement. If I take away the worry, is this good enough? Am I good enough? Think most of us feel this in some way. I know I do.

If I wasn't a CEO, who would I be? What if I wasn't a husband? What if I wasn't shape? What if I wasn't known on line? Who would I be? And if you really twist a knife on, that starts to feel very uncomfortable.

Nathan takes his anxiety, and he redirects IT to working harder and in a way that's constructive, which is why optimizes, like Nathan, can often get lost in their optimization. They justify, they say, hey, me being in control has gotten me good results. So i'm going more in control and therefore i'll get more good results.

But there's a problem. You can control everything. In fact, the more you do, the more you start to lose a sense of what's truly important.

When I started my business, I was a control freak. A lot of entrepreneurs are, in fact, I told myself a lot of entrepreneur control freak ha, who became a half joke to me. I obsessed over every tiny detail.

I wrote every email, every instagram caption. And as my business grew, I couldn't keep up worrying about the small details. There just weren't enough hours in the day for me to obsess over every single social media, caption and email everything.

And I had to systematically strip control away from myself. And my team certainly helped. They told me over and over for years, you shouldn't doing this anymore. And IT took a long time, and that is what allowed my business to grow. IT also allowed me to focus on the bigger picture and physically allowed me to have more fun.

My chAllenge here is to help make and see that there's a Better future ahead, one in which he can willingly give up control because he's earned the right to let's take a quick pause to support our sponsors. If you run your own business, what is your vision for twenty twenty five starting off the year actually happens weeks or even months in advance. For example, if you want to hire an amazing team member to help you grow, got to start early, so you have time to screen, interview them and hire the right person.

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I want to know how much we're gonna. I want to know if we have a problem and what we are doing to take care of IT. We can predict the future, not with our investments, not with our business.

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If I needed a platform that integrated accounting, financial management, inventory and hr into one place, this is what I would use to be able to see the opportunities in front of me. Speaking of opportunity, download the CFO s guide to A I and machine learning at I W T dot com flash next week. The guide is free to you at I W T dot com slash next week N E T S U I T E I W T 点 com flash next week。 Now back to the show. Who am I? If i'm not worrying about money.

what I want is, when i'm not worry about money, I can be out of my head. I can be joyful.

As powerful is really powerful. I've seen this me online about someone who is in a prison. But the prison, I think, is coming from their own brain.

They and the prison has a door. They can just walk right through IT. But because it's coming from their own brain, they don't realize IT feels very much like that's what's going on here. You see the same way.

exactly exhAusting in my head. I wanted, you know, break for me shapes. I can just the relax you be because I note at my core, like at my core, is sunday mornings are feeding my kids or dancing to music or just having a an awesome time, awesome time ah and then somewhere around twelve o clock kids, okay, what do I need to be doing?

We are worry about the house. We are do all these things. I can just sit on the couch and just watched the networks this.

like the asian cinderella, like at the clock strikes twelve. And then you start going like, what I need to worry about, pick up the room. I need to do this.

I need to reformulate to csp and run a compound interest calculation. Like, damn, all my asian friends are like, yeah me too but like IT doesn't have to be that way. Let me give you an example from my all my so I set my life up so that i'm not really worrying about money.

What do I mean day to day bills are paid automatically. Um when I make a big purchase, I take a lot of time to research IT. I carefully consider, can I afford IT things like that? And I buy below my means.

I spend time, time. A little bit of time on monitoring stuff like a monthly meeting. Occasionally, I log into my account just to look at the stock market, but that's about IT.

Um I have a lot of fun with money. I ve built that skill, so I travel and I get clothes and whatever, and I always connect IT. So when i'm traveling, I like ww.

I'm so thank for to be in this beautiful hotel. And I think back to me, starting to invest in age fourteen. And I connected that money.

And that mindset is what allowed me to eventually be in this beautiful place at this time. What do you really want out of today's call to us? Alright, I can help you with that. Do you truly want to change the way you interact with money?

Yes, I I want to feel Better about money and I want to change their relationship with IT. I want to break away you from cut of what I was taught in my um my money psychology that's been drilled to me is to be hard but I want to move forward and out of IT.

Let's go to the rest of the csp and and will talk about how to do that. All right. Income a they think I didn't read this combined monthly income, right?

Thirty thousand four hundred seventeen.

I see you make three hundred and sixty five thousand dollars a year combine. Did you know that? Great job.

Nice job. Um alright you take on twenty two you're doing a bunch of pretext investing, right? Yeah ah we fixed cost seventy six percent.

What do you think about that? And it's time, okay. And why is IT high .

because of our mortgage? And are they care?

Yeah it's it's those two things. But candidly, your mortgage is not that bad for your income. It's fine.

You're at twenty three point three percent, no big deal. Your your daycare is four thousand four hundred books amount. That's a lot.

Daycare is expensive. I'm sorry you have to pay that much, but that's what IT is. And how long will you have to pay them for .

two more years of the big one, four more years of the little one in the next year, we're gona refine that. We're going to bring that mortgage down by like a grand that we I mean, if we did IT today, we would be at least degrade in the positive. And then and yeah, they care and we will have before and after care, but we'll save about three thousand dollars a month when we do that.

Though I feel great in my mind, were the most transparent onenh al position they ever paying the daycare premium and industry premium. yeah. So if we were .

to .

take a head on our retirement investment or college investment or whatever this year, I feel OK with IT because I have been okay.

And Nathan, how do you feel about that? I feel control that. That will always be there.

great. okay. Both of you have a very healthy answer to this situation.

I totally agree. I I look at that, I go, alright, IT is high. It's temporary.

You know, the exact month and year is gonna stop. As you put in Linda, you are currently paying the most. You are gonna pay. You could refer right now your daycares gonna down and then way down. So your fixed costs.

I can tell you right now, I don't have enough storage space in my RAID arrayed, whatever the hell, to go through every a category in here. Grocery subscription, dead repayment for school cleaner, kids swim hardwoods. We have Linda therapy, Linda phone and gas, fine credit card, physical fee.

Do you see this constant need to be overly precise? And because you spend all your time down in the weeds, which is exhAusting, you have no vision for how do we even have a lot of money like going to ask you, how do you feel that having one point five million 到 netware have no answer？ Because you are obsessed with getting this precision down in the weeds is not serving you.

Okay, your savings is at sixteen hundred dollars a month for general savings 嗯， and you have a healthy savings account, almost eighty thousand dollars. That's pretty good. I think the problem comes at spending.

So I think you both realize this, right? You actually broke out your goal free spending. I mean, you really broke IT out talking thirteen dollars a month for a Christmas tree.

So the real problem here is not that you have like fifty line items. The problem is that you're spending one thousand, three hundred and sixty one dollars. And if you factor IT didn't you'd be two thousand dollars among short as you know, that's a problem. So what do you all want to do about that?

Refinanced home. I mean, to me and like we sort of just have to write this wave and be more aware of what we're spending on. And we might not be able to do the vacation this year, but next year after we lower term of our fixed expensive will have more under great spending.

I feel like we're playing jeopardy tonight because every answer is the most american answer ever. Hey, we've got a spending problem. What should we do? Refinance our suburban house.

哇哦， 丁 丁丁， every americans like what? Why is this guy making a joke about IT? What's wrong with refinancing? That's they refinance all day long, never pay after mortgage.

Sure you can refinance, but that's not that's like a one off thing. And you happen to be lucky enough to be able to do IT. Maybe IT happens, maybe not whatever what else you want to cut back on your spending.

What else wondering is a can we not max out um our investments? And so where seventeen percent can we bring IT down to ten and still reach your financial world?

Would you what do you think about that?

And we bought to how my strategy was. We buy the how we don't save tate and retirement for one year because I have an employer match that. We wanted stage of that. And then one, we refine, we have more money. We would start saving in anything retirement's again.

And when we heard of the driver hall of country spending about that, he thought of faith in that idea because you didn't feel like I didn't enough research on coming up with that financial strategy and that we didn't put the money in our retirement. Now you turned with that opportunity for the year of twenty twenty four. For me, I was like well before the worst finning position in a couple of years.

And we have more money. We can put IT in a brokerage account. If we .

have that, reject me. Nathan, what was your what was your response to Linda suggestion?

Yeah, I don't think we need to max IT out. And then student, I was like, okay, great. We can start spending a little bit more. And then when do like, oh, now you need to rain IT back and like, we don't have enough or rock and organs saying that we're going negative .

a little little unclear. So first, Linda had this suggestion of like, hey, let's not max out our investments because we're living in the most expensive time right now. And then anything was like, I don't know about that plan because i've started using the csp that that makes me nervous but then Nathan was like, hey, that actually might be right. Let me let's stop maxing out and then Linda was like, hold on, you have not adjusted your retirement so we're actually overspending and that's where you are today.

Yeah because he didn't adjust the back down. We're still putting the same amount in retirement.

Why aren't you at the same place both of you are like we don't need to max out our investments.

They then wants to still max them out until maybe this conversation, I think you are convincing him that we might not need to, right. Yesterday, you didn't think we were doing .

enough that you are Operating on pure scarcity, and that is coming out in these very peculiar ways. It's like one of the ways it's coming out is like we need to max out our investments .

about compounding. Interest was one of most possible things. So we miss out on that. Then you know we miss out the wealth. That is technically true.

If you do not contribute x dollars for the year of twenty, twenty four, twenty five, yes, you will miss out on that compounding. And over thirty years will probably turn out to be a pretty decent count of money. So what that .

then going back to the failure thing, then we are failure because we get to where we are planning on.

Getting to you are exceeded what you are planning. You already beat that number. The thing about scarcity is that people who have a scarcely mentality are very good at convincing themselves that they're not being scarce.

They're just being careful like we're Young, we should max IT out because it's compounding and set. You have learned enough to be dangerous with investments. Compounding is powerful.

You should try as much as possible to max out, especially when you're Young. All those things are true. You're totally right.

But because you are so in the weeds, you are missing the big picture of what is going on here. Let me explain what just happened here. Nathan, the Linda have high fixed costs.

And some of this is temporary. Someone, this is because of the new house. But they don't really understand the true picture here because they're so focused on the past and they are looking at the world through a pair of scarcity based lenses.

They aren't accounting for how much they've already saved and invested. Instead, they're hyper focusing in the weeds. He saying we need to our investors for compounding, and she's saying when we refine its, everything will be OK.

Yes, their mortgage increased, but the issue here is that Nathan and Linda haven't adjusted how much they are contributing to savings and retirement to offset their fixed cost. They plan to do that, but they didn't actually follow through. why? Because Nathan is indecisive.

You can see how these deeply rooted beliefs in ourselves, our insecurities, our lack of conference, our anxious, come out and manifest in the most peculiar of ways they did not adjust their spending. why? If you trace the back, trace the back crobble to his childhood, IT has to do with insecurity and needing to be reassured and needing to be told that you are enough.

But it's a very difficult way to live magic. Go to a restaurant in order and omelet. But before your food comes out, you see somebody else.

You change your mind night. And that sounds Better. Can I stead? And just as you're getting your cup of coffee refilled, you go too much cafe.

Can I have orange? Instead, you can even enjoy what you're eating because you're wondering if you picked the wrong theme. Being indecisive is a terrible way to move their life.

But as we can see here, the connections between what we are doing with our money and why are often very nebulous. What is the big picture described? The situation happening in your family finances?

I am standing so much of my energy doing one thing in, and then the month or cafe o is naked.

yes. Meanwhile what else is happening?

Our our investments are growing.

Yeah but by how much?

By seventy percent.

okay. So finish the whole sentence for me. At this year in my family, we are losing money every month. We are spending more .

than we make and we are um gaining seventy thousand doors in our um investments every year.

yes. okay. So what is the logical .

conclusion? Your path flow is positive or no nature.

When I see a Young parent or parents, i've always said, give yourself a little bit of room if you if you have A A percent savings rate, bring IT down to five percent, even three percent, even one percent, just keep a little bit of money going. But for a couple of years, give yourself a little bit of ease. All I ask is that you make IT systematic.

So you sit down and you go, look, this is the kind of life I want us to live for the next four years. The next four years, I think we should spend more on X, Y and z, because we are busy babies, Young school childcare, all that stuff. So I want to do X, Y, Z.

And after that, those expenses will go away and we will resume aggressive investing. What do you think about that? I would like to do that.

What you wanted to me to come on here and do this to help you analyze, make sure you're gonna a have enough for your family, right? It's not a real problem. All you can do the math yourself. When are you going to feel confident enough that you're doing the right thing? You have to second guess your self.

the answers. You may never feel that way. But how I want to feel is I want to feel starting tomorrow, comfortable that way.

okay? I like that. Love that. Now that is talking about the future. I literally tomorrow. I love that. Good answer. Um where's your therapy fee? Anything I don't see in the fixed costs.

right? So I I the therapy was in the past and then through my my dog, I was getting like a free session every month.

Anything that is the most important expense on this csp, and you are literally being a cheap skate. What percentage of the time have we spent talking really about your mental health today? Yeah yeah.

There's literally zero dollars dedicated towards IT. There's a phrase, show me someone's calendar and i'll show you their priorities. My version is show me someone's calendar and their conscious spending plan, and i'll show you their priorities.

There are entirely too many people living in their spread sheet who think they are what optimization away from finally feeling good. You know, the truth is most of them would get more benefit from going for a walk for seeing a friend once a week and probably talking to a therapist. Now, as a man with immigrant parents in the U.

S, I have a lot of compassion for what Nathan is rustling with, and I see a lot of similarities between how he grew up and how I grew up. And i've seen IT serapis, and it's helped. One of the things I want to do, all the shows to demystify mental health, because IT directly influences your rich life.

Your rich life is not just about a bunch of numbers on a page. How many episodes will have to show you to get you to understand that is about so much more money, yes, but also how you feel choices. You make, your confidence, your ability to enjoy things.

And one of those things is to know when to spend money to improve your life. Think about IT. If your sink was leaking, you would call a plummet and you would pay basically whatever they ask for.

But when IT comes to our minds, somehow we rationalize our suffering to save money, make no sense. Being cheap with your own self is no way to live, especially when IT comes to your mental health. I'm going to see if I can get Nathan on board after a quick break to support our sponsors.

I have a friend of mine who was taking care of grand out of the other day, and he was looking for a movie to watch with her. He found something on amazon prime, and then he refused to pay for IT because he was three dollars and ninety nine cents to rent the movie. Now, keep in mind is the same person who pays a lot of money to a financial advisor paying a percentage of his considerable portfolio.

Think about IT. He's paying hundreds of thousands of dollars, probably more, but he won't pay four dollars for his granddaughter to watch this movie. Anybody else find that crazy yet? So many people are working with a financial advisor paying tens of thousands of dollars or more without even realizing.

That's because the industry set IT up this way to be intentionally confusing. You never get a bill sank. Thank you for choosing us. Here's your invoice for this quarter.

Five thousand dollars? Nope, they just take that fee right out of your account listing IT in your activity statement along with everything else. Oh, and since it's a percentage of your investments, as your investments grow, so does your fee every single year.

So when I ask most people how much do you think you paid your financial advisor, they just struck most people have no idea this episode sponsor fact is changing that. With fact, you get flexible access to a team of financial planners or CF p professionals and a team of others providing guidance across retirement planning, tax strategy, estate planning and more. Instead of taking a percentage of your portfolio, there's an affordable flat membership fee and fact that does not charge you to invest with them.

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I have a pretty long way from work. And so when I, when I go to work, I go, we have we have a great life. I think as a whole, I and feeling pretty good after your conversation here, definite is something I feel like should be going .

relate to hundred percent. I think this should be a big expense. You should be happy to spend a lot of money on IT once a week minimum. Your view of yourself and your money is not in alignment with reality as I see IT. O, as I always say, your feelings can be real, but they may not be telling you the truth.

You really, genuinely feel that way, but our feelings can lead us to street, and you could literally make an extra ten million dollars, and you would still feel bad. You would not feel enough at sara. This is something that needs a lot of work and I would highly, highly recommend IT.

Yeah I think you are about kinds of things yeah didn't to extend outside of money that doesn't allow him to enjoy like this weekend or in the evening. Obviously.

that's that's like you're basically screaming that you've told me I come home from work, i'm tired and I start talking about our rich life. That's actually not a healthy reaction. And you can see, like landis, like I don't want to talk about this anymore SHE SHE prompted me the minute I showed her first guy be stupid. Rich life i've been hearing .

in every day for the last five years hit makes me feel Better because I I do. I crunch left numbers and I D of lead with, like, got and think of what feels right. But what makes me feel like I understand finances Better than I might have thought that I think .

your intuition seems to be pretty good. Um I do think you you can lean on your intuition right now because you both make a lot of money. I think that if one of you lost your job or you had something happened to the house, you had to do some emergency repairs on me, I think things would get very, very stressful very quickly, because you haven't built a healthy relationship with money, either of you.

So right now, Linda, you're kind of going off god and and your intuition tends to be like pretty good like logically you were like, let's cut the investment and redirected here, which is a good intuition. I agree anything you're just like, oh my god, the world is going to end and like we need to calculate everything. The good news is your earning a lot, you're investing a lot.

So the nuts involved stuff is good. That part is great. The actual win comes from creating a principal, which is we fight for simplicity, turning the page and starting to work on the communication around money.

What is our rich life? IT can be a conversation is happening at nine P. M.

Every day. That sucks. It's going to be something fun. It's got to be something different. And you gotto talk about in a different way. Then how do we simplify this? Because this is not working.

And what what's the point of having one point five million dollars your third ties and you're like a boohoo e or like socks you should be greeting for joy. wow. I love being able to take my kids alter pizz.

I love being able to buy flowers for my wife. I love being able to surprise my husband with something from amazon. Not hearing any that right. So the real win comes from turning the page um and focusing on that the connection that is what's gonna you to actually feel good about money.

Honestly, some of our best time together is just going to the restaurant and bar, sitting next to each other. He wants to sit next to each other and cuttle and just.

and when did that last happen?

We do at once a month to the bath of our ability, and we have to gila two years and thursday with boring. We tried to make that a priority.

I love hearing that. I don't hear enough. What if you did more stuff like that? I think it's so awesome that you already do that once. A what else could you do for that type of connection?

We try to do like this because give me, and to the pumpin catch, we've ought the repair to allow you to get to all the rides at the pumpkin patch. And we were like a sort of fillip, not frivolous, but like we should .

have been able to do a gillray.

And I feel like we talked about the cost of the rest and when we shouldn't necessarily needed to. He was like, how much is that? And I said, twenty thousand, the first. But then play .

and things like a man.

I said, what you like, if we went to you seen .

this dynamic, do you guys see what happened? What role did each of you play in .

this conversation? Yes, he stressed .

about IT. And you are what .

specifying the time?

yes. Do you see the dynamic here, Nathan, you are stressed because to you, stress means care. I'm stressed, therefore I care.

If I don't express worry, then who am? I am a lifeless shell of a man. I'm nothing, so I have to express worry.

And the only way I know how to deal with money is to agonize over, and usually verbally, basically in staring whoever happens to be around me, which is my wife. I'm worried. I mentioned, are beginners enough.

Is this seven or eight percent and on on just constant worry and anxiety loud? okay? It's toxic. And in Linda role, she's on the other side of the boxing ring. Linda, what's your role?

Get the thing.

It's going to be OK. Here's why this actually makes sense if you compare IT to the Price of a movie on, on, on. And then Nathan gets to what Nathan, once you hear that reason, what do you get to do?

Make that decision.

make the decision and go. I didn't have to do with myself. SHE told me its okay. He told me rome's city came on this call and told me its okay. The teacher told me, the financial adviser told me, everybody told me, I don't have to make the decision myself. So when I ask again, what did each of you get out of IT.

Nathan first, and do stress to you.

Your invisible scripted stress is life. You are most alive when you are stressed out. You see that. And the opposite of stress is why.

Home.

can you think of a time where you made up any significant financial decision without stress?

Everything has some sort some little little rest of cause. But like I mean, I do the research so I all the time there can sure that like there's stress and here and stress there.

Maybe when you have ten million dollars, then you want to feel stressed.

What we've see is no, no matter how much .

it's not the numbers problem is here. It's it's here in your feelings and it's here how you think yes. And so back, you know, Linda, what did you get out of that conversation about the credit card in the pump kin patch?

I was able able to, like, take her them and call down.

Yes, you were the voice of reason. Yeah of come of reassurance. He's organizing again. Oh, no, he's doing what he does. I need to step in Linda .

and take care of him. Take control of the situation.

Yeah, maybe take care of him.

Another thing that we just recently what is like math on the room so we have to take care of the mark and he wanted to do IT himself and computers, like a lot of things DIY. But like we're moving more your roof, the top water from getting into here home is like maybe something you should read two next bird.

okay?

And you could like follow up the rooms. Like good, a couple of different reasons. I don't want him about there. But then so I I was like all our friend is like a cheap guy go to him. And then anything needed me to validate and make the final decision of hiring regard.

You can see that these deep feelings come out in a thousand different ways. If it's not the pumpkin patch, it's the mass. If it's not the mass, it's the mall cleaner. It's not the mall cleaner, it's the dish washer and it's a thousand different.

You can never play, forgive the expression, work on all, you can never walk enough, because there will always be something until you tackle the the root cause, not the symptom, and the root cause is feeling. I'm not enough for me. Worry and stress is life, and not feeling stress is death.

And the dynamic that has emerged between the two of you, Nathan, stresses out, organizes worries, articulates IT out in many different ways. And then Linda comes to the rescue. A, it'll be OK. Let me call me down.

I went like some article about people who, like, keep the door will bring our way more stress out. And if you just make a decision with you, I think you struck up with there's a Better option. There's always a Better option to me.

It's like I don't want to talk about anymore. Made decision lets you see if it's a good one. In six months, we can reevaluate.

Okay, I agree with that. I think over thinking is um one of the worst possible um traits that you can have. But the fortunate thing is you can change IT in many different ways.

One over thinking, often just deep down, comes from a sense of insecurity. Did I get a wrong? I need to be perfectly right.

What if i'm wrong? And on on that you can, uh, work through that in therapy. But second, we can create some rules and systems. So right now, what's an example where anything was doing something over thinking about a purchase?

I A about of the drone first birthday, and then I was thrown on one through. You return did. And then this year I bought him the drone that he wanted for his birthday.

And he was like, but the new one is going to come out there eventually. What I ended up doing was Green lighting him to buy the drone, though he was able to do his own little happy research, in part, the world. Yeah, we have to grow now.

Yeah, great. So what do you notice about that .

example that he took control.

you gave the responsibility to him? Think about how often he spends up anxiety and then tosses that anxiety ball to you. IT happened at the pumpkin patch. And what did you do when you toss .

setti I D ball to you?

I took IT. You received IT. You engaging IT and then eventually you didn't even like toss IT back to him what you do.

just like petting that made you feel Better .

about IT h you that. Yeah, so what would be another approach?

I say, please make that decision.

Your self, no, that's what you basically do. All right, take the ball and toss IT back to him. Nathan.

I mean to say, like, look like I don't have been on this. This is a decision you have to make.

wow. And would you receive that? Well, what would you .

do if he said that with our dynamic would be feel very foreign? And and and tossed I back. But what I guess what I would like to do and starting soon, is taking IT running with IT. Okay.

I love that. Can we make an example right now, something that's gonna en in the next three days, where you would Normally toss the anxiety e ball to her, but she's gonna ask her right back to you.

I have made that decision on on the roof person at .

but still right .

now window, you're sending back the decision to get somebody on the roof. And I will make a decision tomorrow to detect the guy you do to come to our house and he's going to take care.

And thank you .

for making that decision. I'm happy that you or found them and they are going to away. And I appreciate that.

love. IT. Okay, round of the plus. Take the in.

Okay, that was really good. This fun, right? It's theatrical. It's almost like absurd.

You have to make IT a little absurd, you know and both of you clap and it's all this stuff because the first few times you're already gone to feel weird but then after a while you're like, how like can make a joke out of IT? Are you trying to toss me the ball right now? You know, I don't catch that ball. Good luck.

That was a nice try, but it's back to you.

Hearing the story from the pumpkin patch really helps Crystalize their money dynamic. He gets ananzi ous SHE, calms him down, and then he's absolved of responsibility. This is where the real chAllen begins for Nathan and Linda as a couple.

They've been stuck in this never ending cycle of Nathan making a decision, panicking, walking a back, and then Linda getting pulled into that panic with name is going to learn to be decisive. Linda is going to have to set boundaries, and she's gonna to work to retaliate, ate that relationship that can be uncomfortable. But with practice, I feel very confident they can do this together.

Can we look at the numbers again more quick? You're investing approximately seventy thousand dollars a year. You have six hundred and ninety four thousand dollars, right? Thirty years were so to grow, right? Seven percent. Okay, twelve million dollars.

Is that enough for me? In the little little part? I guess I would say, yes.

you will get four hundred and ninety four thousand dollars per year in safe withdraw for thirty years. You will safely be able to withdraw that and you will still have money left over. Linda, you look a little .

hesitant servais dos so yeah yeah it's that's millions short .

of what you will actually have million I think where are you concerned .

like kids college um and paving for that you're really financially .

out of touch. I love that I get to do this on this show. I talk to people and they're like, am I gonna have enough?

Twelve million does not seem like it's gonna take I like what the is wrong with you, what how long I going to show this on screen because people I know people are mad right now watching and i'm going to make them more. I'm gonna fuel the rage. Look at this thirty years.

No, make IT thirty five just for kicks. What's going to happen to this twelve million dollars? It's going to turn nit to seventy million dollars.

You can't stop this freaking compound interest at a certain point. Make IT forty years. What happens if you save for forty years? It's twenty five million people. We're going to do with twenty five million dollars.

So many telling ling this though because our affer was navigating, we probably have to reduce that good point.

So on to take you back to thirty years where at twelve point three million dollars and you're like, hey, we aware negative cash for so we need to cut this down. How much you want to cut IT down instead of seventy k per year year investing? How much? Okay, beautiful.

Let's take a look. Instead of tall point three million, nine point three million, let's do a four percent calculation on that. And that's three hundred and seventy three thousand dollars. Now I want you to understand something. I don't think you're only going to contribute forty thousand dollars .

for the next thirty .

years like truth. If it's if you cut this down for, I don't know what you say, three more years, four more years until daycare is taking care of, the effect overall out of twelve million doors will be mini. You think about that time value of money now, is that two hundred thousand dollars worth more to you now as Young parents? Or is IT worth more to you as part of twelve million dollars when you're sixty five in and hopefully .

healthy now because like the hardest day of the light that weren't right now.

yeah, parents got to give themselves some Grace, some help. And the fortunate thing is you guys actually can afford IT. So to me, I always say it's a tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to. In this case, the tragedy is just blindly maxing out without even knowing what you're doing.

why? Why am I maxing out seventy cavers forty eight? What am I getting? Is IT worth IT? And the truth is that ten, twenty, thirty is worth way more to you for the next three, four years and then you can go right back up to where you are.

That's IT. That's how you think about IT. So I don't want you to get sloppy with your spending.

I really want you to actually go back and talk about your C. S. P, and come up with the set of agreements we need.

His guilt free spending, her guilt free spending and our guilt free spending. That pumpkin patch conversation should have never come up if IT were something like me in my wife. We're not talking about that like that.

That's not a at the level of conversation we have. We already have guilt free money said to swipe the joint card that comes out of our joint guilt free spending. Never talk about to again. That's how we Operate. How are you feeling seeing .

these numbers? We have a plan. I can tell nate and glave then oh.

OK, what about you? What about you.

Linda? I feel good that on the same .

page later yeah.

I know I feel great honestly. Yeah, I just want n to you that I think .

the important thing anything is that um well, i'm happy that the two of you are on the same page and I actually think that there have been several breakthrough today, which i'm really happy about. The ultimate breakthrough is for you to get to the point where you are not looking for confirmation from a third party. okay? Sure, it's always IT can be healthy to get help.

Sure, read the books, get the training, all that upgrade. But IT becomes crippling when you cannot depend on yourself. okay.

And for that, that is actually going to be one of my pieces of homer. two. I I don't think i've ever assigned therapy. And of course, is your money your life, but I would highly encourage you to sign up, take that ball this week and get that schedule to me. Of all the things that I see, that is the number one thing that I would tackle.

You have the chance to have a good time for the rest of your life, or to have a really bad time to stress, to agonize and then to tell yourself all. I'm actually just like, i'm careful. I like to reason you get the chance to rewrite that chapter.

And I think that that starts by working with a therapist regularly. Good one, not the free one. And couples therapy will be so helpful for the dynamics, like the ball, the anxiety.

There are so many dynamics that I see that a proper therapies, given enough time, could really help you on. And the money part, while important, is just one piece of overall dynamic. It's worth IT truthful ly, a marginal extra, a five thousand dollars per year of you investing doesn't really change much.

But couple therapy once a week and seta would be massive. Remember most people who are thinking about money, they just don't have enough of IT. O so there are just like we're Operating from a true scarcity.

You guys are playing a different game. But the thing is, you constructed this reality where you are also scares. We need to make out our no, you don't. You need to decide as a unit, how do we allocate our money is up to you.

If you look at your allocation like a pie, you'll quickly realize, oh my god, we are overweight on some stuff and we underweight on others and the amazon stuff throw IT in. Let's put let's put that as part of the pie. Instead of fighting about IT, let's just carve out a little slice.

Everybody can get what they want for amazon. Maybe it's like not as much as you want, but onest ly the way you all talk. I think you can easily afford that stuff.

The rich life is not waiting for forty years until you've ten million dollars. The rich life is like, who goes up on the roof? Oh, we actually can afford to pay somebody to come over and do you for us rich life.

I want to thank naked and Linda for sharing your story. I also want to take a second to acknowledge how difficult is to come into a public space like this and talk about issues like mental health. Please remember, i'm not a therapies, which is why I regularly recommend my guess.

And everyone listening see a therapist naked. And Linda shouted a, they had real breakthrough in the way that they view money. But the real work starts when this conversation ends. Let's listen to their follows and see if they were able to make a change.

Hear me. Thanks again for chatting. Who was a really good conversation. I think my biggest surprise is that I feed into my husband's money anxiety, and there is some simple things I can do to just that.

Another thing I was surprised by, I was using that the small purchases don't matter involution worry as much about, i've always view these, is that five thousand cuts. So I was really interesting to you. That mentality isn't really hoping me.

I've learned that in this is your life with little kids and hydrate care payments, it's okay that we don't say there's much for retirement. And the feeling so stressed about money right now doesn't have to be our mentality while we're waiting for those they care payments to listen. The conversation also referred that we're being responsible with our money and lowering our overall saving says mean that we're making their own decision.

Something that we've changed since we chat is that we adJusting our retirement allocation for Nathan. So that we have more disposable income. And we've just csp to simplify money tracking and understanding where the budgets are. Thank you again. bye.

Now what's good to nick's followed in.

Remember, thanks for having us in the show and talking with us. My biggest surprise was that an effort to be clear and concise and transparent with my finances, thinking Linda wasn't meeting me halfway. I've created more chaos in my life and i'm doing too much. Our conversation with you quickly turn to the root causes of my money anxiety to help address our problems as a whole.

Instead of getting into the weeds of our csp, which i'm really thankful for, my biggest take away are that I am good enough um and that I need to a relax and enjoy life more in turn that will lead into more positive relationship by war uh and friends and family kids and most importantly, Linda specific changes, i've decided to go back to their beat to work on myself. I ve booked of employment ment already. I reduced them out.

I'm contributing to my retirement investments to free up more money for more positive cash flow, and I ve removed many tiny details from our to make my life more simple and less chaotic. Appreciate the time. thanks.