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Before we start today's show, I have a really exciting announcement that I've been wanting to share for a long time. On January 1st, 2025, I'm releasing a new book called Money for Couples. For the last three years, you've heard me on this podcast speaking to different couples every single Tuesday. I've spoken to over 170 couples on this show about their money psychology, the money messages they heard from their family, the peculiar dynamics that they have around money and where they get stuck.
and how they can get on the same page. Well, behind the scenes, I've been working on the definitive book to help couples get on the same page with money, and that's what I wrote for you. It's coming out January 1st, and in the book, I'm going to share how to talk about money, including the exact words to use, when to talk about it, how to teach your kids about money, even the exact agenda and account setup that my wife and I use in our finances.
I'm going to show the tactics to make instant improvements, like how to set up your accounts to automatically work together and how to assess your financial health.
And finally, you're going to get a deeper understanding of money psychology in your relationship. And you're going to discover why you and your partner see money differently and how to get on the same page. Now, it's one thing to listen to couples or watch couples every single week. I love doing that for you. But it's a whole different thing to be able to have the book and to be able to work through it with your partner. Okay?
I'm so excited to get this book in your hands. You can pre-order it using the link IWT.com slash money for couples and stay tuned for a lot more on this book this year. Again, go to IWT.com slash money for couples to pre-order my new book about getting on the same financial page as your partner.
Um, what the hell is going on on this podcast that like 80% of the people who come on here go through massive screening, fill out applications, they never actually read my book. Is anyone else puzzled by this? Look, a lot of the questions that you ask me about money are answered directly in I Will Teach You To Be Rich. How do you pay off your student loans? How do you automate your finances? Where do you start investing and how do you handle big purchases?
I wrote this book as a six-week program so you can follow along on your own or with a partner. If you want to improve your finances, I recommend you get the I Will Teach You To Be Rich book. It has over 18,000 reviews on Amazon. Get it at iwt.com slash book. I tell her, you know what, why don't you put yourself in my shoes? Sometimes I understand it is too big for her. That it's too... The shoes are too big for her.
On today's episode, I'm going to be working with Alyssa and Ilan about a money problem that they have. But as I get deeper into the discussion with them, I realize it's not really about money. It's the communication between the two of them that is the real problem. Imagine your husband talking about you like this. Alyssa's nature is inside the box and my nature is to think outside the box.
Are you kidding me? Who talks about their wife like that? Especially when you and your wife are supposed to be running a business together. I'm an entrepreneur. She's not an entrepreneur. She is an employee. This is the I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast, and I'm your host, Ramit Sethi. Now, I've always been fascinated with money and psychology.
I remember writing about money while I was a student at Stanford, studying technology and psychology there, and absolutely loving talking to my friends about money.
So many of us claim that certain things are important to us, and yet our behavior doesn't actually match up to it. Think about it. There's money. Yeah, I know I should save more. There's flossing. Yeah, I know I should floss more. There's calling our parents or going to the gym. There's so many things in our lives that are genuinely important to us, and yet we find it really difficult to do. And I know what it's like.
Growing up, I would joke that I was just a skinny Indian guy. I would look around and I would see a bunch of people who looked really fit. They seemed to stay fit and put on muscle effortlessly. And I just felt like I was on the outside, like everybody had read a book about getting fit and I was absent that day at school.
And it took me many years, lots of getting help and hiring trainers and reading books to finally figure out what other people seem to effortlessly know. And I think a lot of us feel like that about money. Like we were absent the day that everyone else seemed to learn it. So I'm fascinated with money psychology. And I'm also fascinated by
with how it plays out in relationships. Part of this is inspired by my own relationship. When I was dating my now wife and we got married, we went through a lot of difficult conversations to be able to get on the same page about money. And so I started talking to other couples. I talked to friends. I talked to readers. And you will not believe some of the stories that I heard.
We have couples that have vastly different spending styles. Couples where one person earns a hundred times what the other does. And in almost every couple, they grew up with totally different philosophies on money. And I thought to myself, when was the last time any of us had the chance to listen to a real couple sharing real stories about their money problems? And a conversation where they actually shared real numbers also. And the answer is never.
Most of us have these conversations, sometimes fights with our partner, but we never get the chance to sit in a room like a fly on the wall and listen to other couples talk about their money problems. Well, that's what I wanted to bring you on this podcast in the hopes that it can inspire you and maybe help you with your money psychology as well. Alyssa and Elan are like so many of the couples that I'll speak to on this podcast.
They come to me for a very specific money problem, usually a really specific type of fight that they've been having constantly. But as I ask them questions and unpeel the layers of their relationship, together we'll discover that it's really not about the financial question they originally came with. There's almost always much deeper issues. Now, Alyssa and Elon have been in a relationship since 2007.
They're now married and they're co-founders of a baklava company. The business is doing well, really well, except for one thing. They just can't seem to agree on almost anything. Now that's where I come in. I've got a couple ideas, but first I need to ask them some questions to figure out what's really going on.
It wasn't really a discussion. It was just like, he's going to do it. But I also don't feel comfortable with you just doing whatever you want with it since we're in a relationship together and our finances are shared. I was scared. I got in a fearful mindset. I was afraid he would lose our money, make mistakes with the money, even though all he wants is to make as much money as possible.
You're listening to I Will Teach You To Be Rich. Alyssa and Elon are struggling to see eye to eye. They both lost their jobs as a result of the pandemic. Luckily, we both are entrepreneurial and I started babysitting. Elon tried a horrible job roofing. We don't speak about that. I mean, we weren't going to think. So I started selling baked goods on Facebook.
And Elon saw that I was getting really busy and said, there could be a business opportunity out of this. Let's make my famous baklava. And the sales exploded. A lot of us believe that one magical day when we have a million dollars or a successful business, all of our financial problems will vanish.
Guess what? That never, ever happens. In fact, if you won a million dollars tomorrow, would you know exactly how to spend it? Would you know how to change your money attitudes? Would they just magically transform overnight? Of course not. These are skills that we learn over time. Now, Alyssa and Elon are quickly realizing that they don't have those skills. And with this new business, it's starting to cause serious issues.
I'm doing the baklava now. He was still helping, but I was getting, I had way too much on my shoulders. I couldn't manage it. We bake it and then I go to the farmer's market. I set up a canopy. We call over every single person. We offer them samples. It's super interactive and tiring way of working.
Then you tear down at the end of the day and do it all over again. So I felt like I couldn't handle this level of work. And I also was having a hard time that he was putting so much time into the crypto. Wait a second. What's this about crypto?
He said, "I'm going to do this cryptocurrency thing." And it wasn't really a discussion. It was just like, he's going to do it. But I also don't feel comfortable with you just doing whatever you want with it. Since we're in a relationship together and financially, our finances are shared. I was scared.
I got in a fearful mindset. I was afraid he would lose our money, make mistakes with the money, even though all he wants is to make as much money as possible. Okay, did you catch all those red flags? No discussion. Don't feel comfortable.
scared he would lose our money. These are all clues I'm listening to, I'm hearing them, and I'm filing them away because I suspect these are clues that give us a hint as to what's really going on. All right, let's keep going. There were times when he was supposed to do a market and some exciting thing happened on the crypto. He saw an opportunity to make a bunch of money and he just didn't go to the market. And for me...
Because the markets are so important to me because it's a new business that I really care about. I just felt like, how can I rely on him? He's just doing the crypto. He's not, he doesn't care about... This is just my experience. I felt let down. Elon's top priority is making money. End of story. If he sees something that can make more money, he's going to go for it.
So we don't see eye to eye because I see the box of our business as a little baby that we're growing. And I care about it and I care about our image and our reputation and about fulfilling our commitment. Okay, on a scale of one to ten, how sure are you that that's exactly what he's going to say? Nine. What surprised you about what Alyssa just said? Nothing much. I know her reaction. I know how she is.
She thinks in a certain way, okay? And Alisa's nature is, let's say, inside the box, and my nature is to think outside the box. So when you think outside the box, you find the solution for inside the box. That's my life experience. Okay, this is red flag central. My alarm bells are ringing.
I mean, can you believe Ilan is talking to me about his wife as if she isn't even there? Now, what I wanted to do was to get back on track and talk about their business. The startup was the idea of how to create a product that we don't have to basically work for so many hours. So I came up with a solution of how to sell a good product
product that has a nice markup and then basically we don't have to work as hard. So once we did that and we stabilized it together, by the way, the difference between us is that I'm an entrepreneur from a very young age and most of her life she's not an entrepreneur, she is an employee.
So I know more how to think as an entrepreneur and how to grow a business and how to invest. And again, one investment going to another one. And I'm not afraid to do that because my life experience taught me that when you make a mistake, a good mistake, because you learn from it and then you learn basically how to make a profit, how to not make that mistake.
Same goes with profit. So you're not going to make or you're going to lose at the beginning, but it's going to teach you in the future how to not make that mistake again and then make profit. Let me just jump in here for a second and remind you who Elon is lecturing. I've started multiple businesses. I've employed lots and lots of people. I run a business that reaches over a million readers a month.
I mean, I appreciate the business lecture, but I didn't really come here to be lectured to by Elon. And if he's being like this with me, I hate to think what he does when he's communicating with Alyssa.
You know how many people's conscious spending plans I see every week? What's fascinating is the categories of spending, especially the ones where people spend way more than they think they do. For example, subscriptions. Let's take a look at some recent numbers on how much people spend on subscriptions. $100 a month on subscriptions. $205 a month. That's from someone spending 76% of their take home each month on fixed costs.
costs, $211 a month, $147 a month, and $487 a month. This is literally thousands of dollars a year, and most of us have forgotten about all the subscriptions we are actually paying for.
Thank you.
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For her to understand it, it was very hard. And we had a lot of collisions and a lot of fights. So my motto is basically to dare and to endure. Basically dare and you conquer. Because if you don't dare and you stay basically in that safe place, you're not going to get anything. I have a real problem in my life. It's called Indian auntie face. Now, if you've ever talked to an Indian auntie,
and you've said something that she doesn't like, for example, that you love to drink or you don't care if you get a C- in school, she will be physically unable to contain the look of judgment and disgust on her face. Unfortunately, I have this problem too. So right now, as I'm being lectured to by Elon about dreaming to dare...
My face looks like I just ate a combination of three onions and a glass of lemon juice. I really need to change the subject right now. How big of an issue do you think that this, what we are talking about is on a scale of one to 10? Oh, wow. Big. I would say even eight, nine, sometimes even 10. Wow. Okay. Alyssa, what about you? One to 10? An eight. Okay. So you're both pretty aligned that this is a real and serious issue.
Yeah, but the thing is, when she asks me to see eye to eye, I find a way to see. But when I tell her, you know what, why don't you put yourself in my shoes? Sometimes I understand it's too big for her. That it's too... The shoes are too big for her. This was honestly really hard to listen to. It was hard for me, and I'm new to this relationship.
I can only imagine how difficult it is for Alyssa to have to listen to these kinds of comments. It's clear that there's not a mutual respect in this relationship for each other. So let's recap. Alyssa believes that the problem is really about Elon being reckless and inconsiderate. Elon believes this is about Alyssa not being cut out for entrepreneurship. I think it's deeper than that. What do you think is going on? I have a suspicion that
Let's listen a little bit more to see if I'm right. So, Elon, what about the fact that you were going to go to show up and sell the baklava and then you decided not to go to that market? OK, so the thing is that the market was very busy and I saw an opportunity. And what do you think Alyssa was thinking when she expected you to go there and you didn't?
Well, she was extremely disappointed. Why? Because she's thinking that I'm neglecting the business. But the way that I see it is to create a cash flow. So I know that if I'm going to lose a day of work over here and I can do triple or four times the amount of working in my computer, then I'd rather work in my computer because eventually we have a common goal. When I have a vision and sometimes
It's a big vision. I know it makes her scared. She gets afraid. Yeah, it makes me nervous. Tell me more. Well, I never imagined having such a big life. I grew up in a family that had enough money to travel two weeks a year. I went to college and I always had everything I needed.
And so I never thought that I need more. And Ilan grew up in a poor home and really suffered. And he doesn't ever want his kids to live like he did. And he's just, he's,
has a big personality and big dreams and that's okay. And I'm getting more. I want to know more about you. Okay. One thing I noticed is that you both love to talk about what the other person does, things, wants, and you actually don't talk about yourself at all. Have you noticed that? Yeah. Now that you mentioned it. Yeah. And I would say that maybe 80% of the time you're right, but 20% of the time you're way off. And yeah,
Both of you believe that you know the other person better than you actually do. Right. Okay, so stay on yourself. You grew up, you had a fine life. You never imagined that you would what? I never imagined having an extravagant life. Like, I always imagined just having basic stuff. And for me, basic means a decent home and a decent car. You know, like a Nissan, like a 1500...
square foot house. It's just not until recently that I started thinking, oh, you know, it would be nice to have more and it would be nice to not work as hard because I'm working. I'm giving like everything I have right now. What happened to make you start to slightly change your thinking?
Well, it was a combination of Elon and not to stroke your ego, but I read all your stuff and taking your course on wealth triggers, which is like blowing my mind. Sometimes when you hear something from your partner, it's harder to receive it. But when you hear from your partner, plus someone else who knows what they're talking about, you start thinking, okay.
maybe I can want that. I think I would never felt comfortable to want in my life. I, if we're getting authentic here, I grew up, you know, with an alcoholic father who kind of his needs were always the most important needs of the family and we had to kind of
work around what he wanted. And he's always been in recovery, but it doesn't change what happens in the mind. Yes. Now we're really getting somewhere. First of all, I want to acknowledge how much courage it took for Alyssa to share that personal information with us. And I feel really honored that she felt safe and she felt comfortable enough to share that right here.
I also want to point out that it's okay to want more. Yes, you have my permission. Wanting a life of more is one of the classic tenets of I Will Teach You To Be Rich. So I'm thrilled to hear that Alyssa has realized she wants more. But even though we just made that big realization, there's still more to unpack here. We're talking about rewriting years and years of conditioning. Conditioning that told Alyssa,
that she should just be happy with what she's got. You can't change that mindset overnight just by flipping a switch. I grew up accepting what came to me. I think that's where it really comes down to. So it wasn't until recently that I said, you know what? I'm allowed to want, but then took another step to be like, how do I want? We're starting to really understand Alyssa on a much deeper level.
I was curious what Elon thought of hearing this. Elon, have you ever heard Alyssa talk about this? No.
Refreshing. Because I know every time when you are afraid of doing something, getting out of your comfort zone, it comes from something in the past, something that you experienced before. Okay, but tell me about how you feel hearing this, not how other people feel. Tell me about how you feel hearing your wife just share things she's never shared before. That made me feel really, really good.
Oh well, I'm happy. Yeah. I don't understand why it made you feel good though. Because right now finally we understood where it's coming from. Honestly that's amazing to watch this happen. I can tell that the both of you
love each other. You know, there's a lot of respect in the way that even your body language is and you're both game to come here and speak to each other in a way that I can tell you haven't before. Alyssa, there's so many things that you just shared with both of us that are crying out to be explored. But Elon, if
If you're hearing these things from your wife, are there any things that make you curious or surprised? I would like to know what are you so afraid of? Where is the fear coming from? Because everything that I endured in my life
It was because of fear. And fear is not something... You are born with only two fears: fear of falling and fear of sudden sound. All right, guys, this is where I did something that I wish I hadn't. I got so irritated with yet another one of Elon's lectures, especially after Alyssa was so open and honest with both of us that I got so irritated I just cut him off.
And I wish I hadn't done this. I don't think it was professional, but I wanted to keep it in the episode so you know exactly what happened. Wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So you were supposed to ask her about how she was incredibly open. And within five seconds, you turned it into a lecture about the fears that a baby's born with. Yeah.
Now, Elon, it's funny, but do you see why maybe she finds it difficult to be open? Because the minute that she is, what does she typically receive from you? A lecture. Yeah. Try it again. And this time, get curious about your own life partner who just revealed something you've never heard. Do you maybe want to dig in and ask her a question? What would you like to...
me to do better so you won't be so afraid of my book. What do I want you to do? What do I need from you so that I can allow you to reach your goals? Is that the question? Yeah, how can I make it more convenient for you? More comfortable, you will be more at ease. With your goals? Yeah.
I asked Elon, ask a question. Elon's question is, how can I help you achieve my goals better? I know. Why are we talking about your goals? I know. And then, Alyssa, you accepted his question. You were about to indulge his fantasy about his goals. We're talking about your alcoholic dad and now it's his goals. Where did this come from? You're right. I was thinking about my goals. I'm so focused about my goals. Sometimes I'm blinded.
about other person's needs. Now, remember that Elon and Alyssa originally came to me wanting business advice about baklava, but we've discovered that the real issue is so much deeper. Think about your own life. Do you have a certain thing that you and your partner constantly disagree about? Maybe even fight about? It might be who loads the dishwasher or
One of you spends too much on clothes. But if you go five levels deeper, if you really treat it like a scientist, like an investigator trying to find out what's going on, what do you think the real issue is? Well, the problem here is simple. Communication. But Elon won't listen to Alyssa long enough to learn what's really going on. One of the worst feelings in life is feeling stuck.
You hear it sometimes with podcast couples here. They feel stuck around their money. I felt stuck in my business. I had made a bunch of decisions years ago and I woke up feeling trapped. So after thinking about it, feeling stuck, not sure what to do, I went to a CEO council that I'm a part of and I just laid it out. And after listening to me, they were like, oh, it's so obvious. You need to change this, move this person over here, change this resource allocation. Boom.
I wish I had done it years earlier. If you feel stuck in your career and you also wish you had a group of peers who could help you get unstuck,
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and join thousands of top senior leaders from companies like Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta who have taken the first step towards accelerating their careers. That's sidebar.com, S-I-D-E-B-A-R.com slash R-A-M-I-T. When I was in my early 20s, I was not into clothes. I wore free t-shirts from tech companies, and I really did not want to seem like I tried too hard.
But I started to realize that clothing is the first thing people see about you. They don't see how nice I am or how much I know about personal finance. They see what I'm wearing. And like it or not, that shapes a lot of how people perceive you.
Now, I take a lot of pride in the clothes I wear. And I love knowing that when I buy something, I'm going to keep it for years and I know that the people who made it were paid well. I actually hired my wife, who runs Next Level Wardrobe, a luxury personal styling company, to style me for my Netflix show and all of my events, including what I wear day to day for more casual outfits.
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You'll be able to open your closet every single day and know exactly what to wear for every single event. They'll help you look like an elevated version of you. And they work with professionals of all ages and sizes. I love the convenience. Next Level Wardrobe has over 125 star reviews from happy clients and they've been featured in the Wall Street Journal. Take their free styling quiz at nextlevelwardrobe.com slash Ramit.
Elevate your style using Next Level Wardrobe at nextlevelwardrobe.com slash Ramit. That's nextlevelwardrobe.com slash Ramit. Alyssa, Elon's having a tough time asking a curiosity-based question. So as his partner...
Help him out. What question do you think he might ask that would allow you to open up a little bit more and to talk more about the stuff you just shared? How can I support you on that journey? I will ask you more often. What can I do? Well, you can ask me now.
What can I do to make you more curious or make you more enthusiastic about the goals that I'm thinking? Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh my God, Jeremy. There's probably a language barrier over here. No, there's not. That's still about you. Okay, no!
Elon, your English is fantastic. The problem is not your English. I would like you to ask me. Okay. How can I support you in your journey on learning how to want? Oh, okay. So how can I support you in your journey to how to want? Well, I can tell you how. Okay. I would like to have your support
for me to make more decisions based around our Boslova business because I am not going to sabotage our business. I'm going to make sure that we maintain a great profit and a great markup, but I have a lot of experience and I want a better future for us. And I know I trust my decision making in the business, but I need
have your support to let me explore what I can do with it because right now I don't feel supported in making little changes like branding the boxes and making banners and making decisions. Oh, so finally we got to something that we had in our hands.
I agree completely with what you said. I want you to dare more because owning a business is not only doing the same thing constantly all over and over again. It's not like being an employee. You always have to reinvent and use your imagination.
to make the business look better. No! Elon, you had it! We just got to the point where you were actually able to ask Alyssa a real question about herself. That was fantastic. The two of you agreed that you both want Alyssa to have more control over the baklava business. Amazing. And then you followed it up with another Elon TED Talk. Okay. What is it?
that you want to do that you feel that I'm depriving you of. I want you to trust me in making decisions with our business because I make really good decisions. So I trust you, okay? You need to do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel better.
And when I will see the results that they're bearing fruit, it will even make a cat. So I would like you to do what you think that it's right. Did you understand the part where I explained my decision-making process? What do you mean your decision-making process? Well, I make good decisions because of
my education and life experience and my thoughtfulness to everybody's needs. Elon, that was the first time today I've heard you ask a legitimate question to her. You said, what do you mean? You just said that. And I had a huge smile on my face as you said that. And you two actually connected. You were legitimately curious. No, what do you mean decision-making process? That's a great question.
And Alyssa, I could hear it in your voice. What did you feel when you heard that question from Elon? I felt hopeful. And that, to me, was the best moment so far. That was hard to get to. And honestly, it seems so simple, doesn't it? The fact that you said, what do you mean decision making? What's the big deal? But that was, imagine you're climbing up a hill. You just made it to the first peak of the mountain.
Okay, so this is fantastic. This agreement that they've made is a major breakthrough. But right now, it's just words. What I want to do is practice something I call failure expectation. And this is basically expecting to fail, trying to break the agreement right now while we're in this safe space.
to predict what might go wrong and practice so that we're prepared for what can happen in the future. I'm going to try to run them through an actual disagreement they've had, and let's watch how they handle it. You can both be successful as business partners. You can. I believe that. I can see glimmers of it, but you can't do it the way you've been doing it because you look down on each other.
You scoff at each other. You don't respect each other for the mutual skill set that you bring. So you have a couple of options. One, you can stop partnering up in business. That is probably the cleanest and most obvious solution. That's what I'm trying to achieve. Okay. Partner? Yeah. Okay. Okay. We'll talk about that.
So go ahead, tell him. It seems like that was a surprise to Elon. No, basically what I thought is each one of us is going to have a part and he's going to have to do his part, okay? And that's what I said at the beginning. When she struggles with her part, then things start to get complicated. And what about when you struggle with your part?
i barely do really you didn't show up to the market that's struggling no okay my part of the business is the background part purchasing and making mixes i'm helping as much as i can but what i do also takes so much energy for me that managing both of the world it's like
Sometimes you can come to a point where you can just collapse because it's too much. So earlier you said that there's crypto and there's Baklava and we each do our part in each. But the truth is I have no part in the crypto whatsoever. And it takes up almost all of your time, morning and night. That's when I realized
propose to hire someone to help in the kitchen that it can relieve. It would be good for everybody to have someone help me in the kitchen because it's a weight off of your shoulders. So by me wanting to take over the baklava because I want to practice developing something on my own, being more daring, trusting myself,
And it also allows you to focus on what you want to do. I think our relationship would be healthier and our business would be healthier. But I would never say that it's not your business. We're in it together. We created it together. It's your business. But is it, in my opinion, a better way to accomplish our goal to move forward in the future? Because right now we're just bouncing things back and forth and not...
going anywhere. That's not addressing what I want and need, which is, as we discussed, is a big issue. I need more help. Okay, for this matter, basically, Ramita would like to share it with you. So she came up with this idea and I told her no problem. She wants to take a professional pastry chef and I'm not winning. But if you can bring someone who is not a professional chef,
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up.
Elon has already told Alyssa that this is fine. Up until now, he's been the main focus of my energy on this episode. But it sounds like maybe that hasn't been completely fair. You know, you've heard that phrase, communication is a two-way street. And if Alyssa and Elon are having this conversation over and over, and she's not acting on the outcome, then maybe it's no wonder he's becoming frustrated. Let's figure out what's going on here.
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What do you call someone who speaks three languages? Trilingual. What do you call someone who speaks two? Bilingual. And what do you call someone who speaks one language? American.
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Are you both in agreement on that? I always agreed. I don't know how something became a problem again. Elon and Alyssa love to talk about each other as if they know exactly what the other person is thinking. This is common in couples, especially long-term relationships. The problem is that it's clear that they often don't know what the other person is thinking. And that's when you get mistaken assumptions.
Alyssa, is that your understanding that Elon agreed to what you want to do with the chef? We did agree and I was nervous that you would change your mind because we had a huge fight over it before. So it's a sensitive topic. But my understanding that I have your support
Okay, this is super interesting. Alyssa and Elon solved the problem, and then Alyssa reset that problem back to square one. She got the go-ahead. She got an agreement with Elon. And instead of pushing forward, she buried her head in the sand and pretended that it hadn't actually happened. So we may have just uncovered a major cause of their problems, but I think the lecturing is still a bit of an issue here. Let's keep pushing forward.
It's not the first time that I've said it. I said it's not as long as that person is not a professional person. Because first of all, he's going to ask to be paid over the top, more expensive than anybody else.
double or triple prayer hour. - Elon, lock in the wind. Lock in the wind, my man. You're about to go into lecture land, which nobody wants to hear, including me. - Okay, okay, okay. - Say to her, "Alyssa, I love you. Yes, we agree. I want to support you. Let's do it." Instead, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Why? What do you get out of it, Elon? - Oh my God. - So let's try that one part again. Go ahead. - Whatever it is you need to do,
So you trust me to make decisions. Thank you. It feels good to be heard. This was a special moment. Sometimes all we really need is to feel heard, for someone to listen to us. And so many of us go through life without anyone really, truly listening to us, without anyone asking us things like, what do you mean?
Hey, can you tell me more about that? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. I remember having a customer service problem with this very large company and I wasn't treated very well by one of the employees. And I was so frustrated that I emailed the CEO of the company and I told him, hey, I don't want to leave a negative Yelp review for you. But as a business owner, I'm guessing that you want to know how your employees are treating your prospects. He wrote me back in five minutes on email. He apologized to me.
He offered to call me right away. We got on the phone and he simply said, I'm so sorry for your experience with my company. Can you tell me what happened? So for the next 10 minutes, I vented to him and I told him what had happened. And at the end, he apologized. He listened and he told me he'd look into it. And one final thing he said, if you ever have the need for one of our products again, please email me directly. I felt so good. I just wanted to be listened to.
And that's exactly what Alyssa is experiencing for maybe the first time in their relationship. Now, I want to talk Alyssa because this isn't pick on Elon day. There's a couple of things that I want to really focus. So it seems like Elon had initially agreed to this chef thing. But then, as you pointed out, you got too nervous. And so what do you do? It seems like you let it fester, started spinning and then brought up the whole argument again.
Is that accurate representation of what happened? Yes. And how do you think Elon feels when you do that? Super frustrated. Why? Well, why do I need to keep repeating myself? And I imagine that must be a little frustrating for you, Elon. Yes. Yes. Okay. So Alyssa, what do you think you could do differently? If Elon agrees, hey, get the less expensive chef. What should you do?
Get the less expensive show. Yeah, just go for it. He said, I agree. So done in his mind, I think he said, look, we talked about this like two months ago, two weeks ago. Go. Why are we talking about this again? We are stuck talking about this. Meanwhile, I want to be over here. Yeah. And so when he says be bold, this is one example, right? Yeah. Made a decision. Let's not talk about it again. Let's go.
I'm aware, I'm aware that I haven't acted on that despite coming to an agreement. Yeah. Seems very strange to me and I think I'm afraid that he'll change his mind. And if he changes his mind, what happens? Then I have to battle my way back to it, try and win another argument which takes so much energy. And then what happens?
I think the key word there was afraid. This brings us full circle all the way back to the beginning of the episode. Do you remember what Alyssa said? She said, Yeah.
Alyssa's upbringing has made her so scared, so nervous to dream big, so uncomfortable around money that it's actively paralyzing her ability to run her business. I'm really so grateful that you and Ramit are connecting because
Now if the two of them
had been told at the beginning of this episode, we need to work on communication, they never would have listened. It's important to meet people where they are. They wanted to talk about baklava and finances. Great. That's where we started. But ultimately, we will almost always peel those layers into something much, much deeper. Did you catch that?
Elon says he's realized he's hurt Alyssa by not supporting her, and he wants to listen more to what she wants. Thank you. That's all I ever wanted. I am willing to support you on your journey because I know you. Now that we have a clearer vision, I know that both of us will be considered in moving forward. Will this last?
I don't know. Alyssa and Elon have a lot of work to do, but they've tasted what it feels like to be aligned. And they've learned a few new skills today on how to talk to each other, how to ask curiosity-based questions. It's possible this is a flash in the pan and they go right back to their old patterns tomorrow. But my hope is that it can be the start of a totally new way of relating to each other about money,
and business and their relationship overall. If you've enjoyed this episode, please follow or subscribe to I Will Teach You To Be Rich on any podcast platform, and you'll get notified each time we drop a new episode. And if you've really enjoyed what you've heard so far, rate and review us too. I would love to have your rating, and we're just starting out, so those reviews and ratings really help. Thank you. Here's what you'll find next week on the I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast.
It's annoying. How much money do you make an hour and how much time are you spending trying to save $2? It doesn't make sense. It's annoying when we go out for dinner and you're like, I want this thing, but I'm going to get this thing because $5 is different. And $150 bill, who cares? He's cheap. Why do you return all my gifts that I buy you because you don't want me to spend money? I don't like the gifts. Do you two want to ask each other anything or share how you're feeling? No.
Would your family say that you are cheap? Yes. Yeah. What about friends? Yes. Some, but I don't think all of them. You want to know something? You're cheap. If your friends and family would say it, you are cheap.
