John Owen Lowe & Andrew Gurland: Bringing the Entertainment
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Do you like Johnny's new girl? I don't have a new girl. Yeah, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Thank you. How about this motherfucker? Listen, I saw... I think she's great. And I'm just going by what I see in the paparazzi. What do you want from me? Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. Today is a fun one. We're going to have a threesome. Three people will be here.

But we had the return of John Owen Lowe, my youngest son and co-creator and star of our season two premiere of Unstable on Netflix currently. And our co-showrunner, Andrew Gerland, who's going to spill all the secrets about what it's really like to work online.

with the lows. Gerland is an amazing writer and director and one of the funniest guys around. So I'm looking forward to this. Let's get going. Hey, everybody. Welcome to literally just around the campfire. Me and John Owen, Andrew Gerland, the people responsible for bringing you season two of Unsaible. Thank you very much. If we were on NPR, that actually would be the opening music.

And if we were making an adult movie, that would be the music. I need to put this away to have this talk about season two of Unstable. I don't really want to talk. You want to talk about the show? Let's just catch up, man. Yeah. I know. We should just catch up. It is good to see you guys. It's good to see you.

It's been, I mean, are you excited for the show to come out? I am. And I got to tell you, I'm really excited to do this podcast. Well, don't put pressure on me. And I'm excited for the interviewer to get here. Yeah, me too. Who is it? I don't know. It's somebody who knows what they're doing, I hope. But it'll be like exciting. I have all the stuff prepared for the interviewer. It's always, there's some structure here where they bring in, you surprise the other two guests. Yeah.

Someone interested. Oh, like SmartList does. Is that what? They have a bit. They have a bit, right? No, that's what. I don't think SmartList does that. I thought you did that. They do a thing where it's like, you don't know who's on their show. And one of them does. Meanwhile, they all free know. Whatever. I just have people on the show. That's why I'm. And you just, you have them on and you just ask them questions and stuff? Yeah. So have you been on this before? I have. Yeah. Okay.

You seem really comfortable. My whole family has been on this podcast. The whole family has been. We just had Matthew Lowe on. Cheryl's one of the best performing shows we've had. Oh, yeah. That's what I knew was sacred around here. Have you been on with your mom?

No. That's the next one. You think I give I'm all over him about stuff. No, but she freezes up in public settings. She gets nervous. She does. Yeah. She would freeze, I think. But don't you think she's so much better now?

No, you don't. In regards to what? What's the met? What are we measuring from? Oh, I think. And I'm not going to be here for Cheryl slander. Just so you know, like I won't, I won't be part of it. That's good. You're smart. You know, you know, your bread is butter. I think I'm not slandering her. I think she's super good on camera.

When she's being herself, she's great. But when she's thinking about what she should do, not so good. That's probably true. I'm very charmed by that one. You're a big Cheryl fan. Yeah, I sure am. What time...

What was your takeaway with Cheryl? I just like how unfiltered she is. You know what I mean? And like that feels like home to me. Yeah. Just somebody who is not interested in watching what they say. Yeah, that's for sure. I'm kind of the opposite of that. I feel like I really... Now, Cheryl, I understand, is Jewish. Is that right? Yes, she is. Okay, so of your two children, of Johnny and Matthew,

Who would you say is more? Oh, it's not even close. Yes. It's the one who asked to be bar mitzvahed. Okay. Hold on. You tell me. Hold on. Ready? Yonatan. Well, I. The one with the star of David. I was also going to say Johnny, but because of the asthma. That's right. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. Because of the asthma and because he doesn't want to go outdoors. Yeah. Yeah. Enjoys a good jacuzzi and a plush robe. And Matthew fishes. Yeah. So, you know. High goyim. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know. Yeah. The outdoors is the temple of the high goyim. They're more likely to kill the guy with asthma than the fishermen. When they come. When they come. Yeah.

Look at Johnny. Look, he's got the cross going here. Yeah. The ring, which I think he got that idea when he saw St. Elmo's Fire for the 75th time. That's right. He's like… I understand that you are a Rob Lowe super fan. It's true. Yeah. It's true. No, it is. I've seen more of his things than probably most people have. Yeah. You watch like Oxford Blues like 25 times. Yeah.

I would say that… Yeah. It's not like train. What sport is Oxford Blues? What sport? Yeah. Well, it's in the title. Oxford. Oxford's not a sport. No, but they row there, right? Wait. Show me how they row. What? They row like they're in a canoe. It's a canoe. It's not how they row. It's not Oxford canoeing. I would say I'm close to a super fan because I don't know how many people have seen as much of his stuff as I've been forced to watch. Yeah.

Forced. Forced. Just by a numbers game, how many people in the world have seen as much of his stuff as me? Probably me. Mostly me. Let's do a little quiz. What's the name of the president in the West Wing? I know this. It starts with a B. Benedict? Bartholomew? Bartolomew? Can you give me three choices? Barton.

shit. That's not Benton Bartlett. Oh God. It's Barton or Bartlett. Barton is funny. I wish it was. It's not Barton is it's Bartlett. I think, but Barton's funnier. If it was funnier, that's the version we need to make. Yeah. Barton, Barton, the comedic version of the West wing. Yeah. Well, well, season three, there's always season three. No spoilers. We have, we have, when does this come out? This will come out, um,

either right before or during the first week. But still, when people can look at the show on Netflix, it's hard to talk about... When is it okay to talk about spoilers? Because in theory, the spoiler is the first day. No, they... Yeah, I think... My understanding was that once it's out, you can talk about whatever you want. Yeah, but do you want to? Because a lot of people take a couple days to get to it or whatever. I think with our show, there's...

Things you could talk about that might spoil elements of the plot, but it would still... It wouldn't change... Because the experience has so much to do with being with the characters. Isn't what people are really interested in more than the show even is the relationship, the real relationship? That's right. Isn't that what people want to know about? Our real relationship. Behind the camera. I mean, I just feel like I have a very specific insight because I had to deal with both of you. And a lot of people don't know for a lot of the shoot, you guys weren't even speaking to each other. That's right. Would you...

shine some light on what that experience was like for you. Do you remember the day when that first happened? And tell us why. I mean, I so often had to be the go-between. Yeah. You know what I mean? And like... Passing notes. And you guys refusing to come to set until the other one is there. I mean, that was... That was... It wouldn't be the first time it's happened. That's almost real.

What was… Okay. I'll take over the podcast for a second. Do you have a favorite moment from filming the second season? Do I have a favorite moment? I mean, I definitely… That is something I should have prepared. It's like the easiest question ever. I know.

I don't know if I... Let's wait until the interviewer gets here and I'll be ready. As soon as a professional podcaster walks in the door, I'll be ready with my answer. By the way, it's funny. We were talking about how happy we'd be if Jiminy Glick was doing this. Are you a Jiminy Glick guy? I love Matthew and Modine.

Those are my favorites. Did you ever work with Matthew Modine? Matthew Modine broke my nose during a scene in a movie called Hotel New Hampshire. Oh, yeah, of course. Of course, that's right. Matthew Modine. Yeah. You were the great Stanley Kubrick. All right, let's say favorite moment. I mean, I did really like there was a scene where...

Johnny had to say nice things to you like at the end in the finale and Johnny would not perform he was like getting like so like mumbling like

I don't even remember this. There's a scene where it's like you don't under you like you have to talk about his great accomplishments and why he's not like can't just be happy with them. You know what I mean? And like he's proven so many people wrong. Oh my God, I do remember this. You just would not give anything. I remember this.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I even remember when we started like breaking that part of the episode. Yes. And we were like, there really needs to be a scene where Jackson kind of has some realization that Ellis has accomplished a lot because it's hard as a son, no matter how, when you're, no matter how successful or,

your father is, like, just give it up. And I was like, the audience is going to want to see like a little bit of giving it up. And John Lee was like, uh-huh. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, that makes sense. Oh, yeah. He knew it was right, but he was just like… Yeah, I remember this scene well. Yeah, I remember. I enjoyed that. I enjoyed having to direct that. I mean, like, I felt inside your dynamic in a fun way. What was it? What was…

in the writer's room because you guys are both in there, you know, breaking the stories and I'm not. Yeah, that's right. Tell me what that was like. Like, were there pitches where Johnny was like, eh? No. No, I wouldn't say that. I mean, look, here's the, here's, to me, I really enjoyed the first season and, uh,

There were so many moments, and I feel like you guys kind of brought this honesty to your relationship that's just there, you know? And we really drilled down on it in season two. Yeah. And the way that translated to the room is when, you know, we kind of made that the directive. Johnny was really fearless about, like, pitching things that he knows are crazy about him as it relates to you. And you're really, I don't want to say fearless, but...

You're willing to ignore anything that might be critical of your behavior and just be like, okay. And I don't know if it's like, you're like, oh, okay, this mirror is saying something honest or you're just like, I don't care. A little bit of both. I don't know what it is. You're like, yeah, this looks good. But there were moments actually...

One of my favorite moments in terms of working with you was there's that big fight in the mocap suit scene. Yes. Where he gets really upset with you for manipulating him. And you worked with me a lot the morning before we had to shoot that or maybe the evening before, you know, bringing a lot. You wrote your own version of that speech, which was.

here's how you should be more grateful. And it was really like you saying something to Johnny. And I felt like there was a lot of that in terms of working with you both where you're not really communicating with each other as much as you were communicating through me stuff you wanted to say to each other. And that part was really fun. That's, I can see that. I'm not willing to totally admit that publicly, but I can see that. But that is the fun of it. It's going how much of this is,

True. How much of it is? Well, no, but there is a moment where like he rolls his eyes in that mocap scene and you had that loaded of you wanting to like be like, the audience is tired of watching this asshole roll his eyes and we need to call him on that. And when he did it, you were armed with that, you know? It was definitely like, that definitely pushed. Well, yeah, there were times when Jackson slash Johnny was,

would legitimately push my buttons. Yeah. And those are some of my favorite times because whatever came out of my mouth was whatever I was actually feeling. Yeah.

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This isn't actually I'm answering for him. Yeah. But I still think my favorite, I think my, it answers both questions because it was one of my favorite moments too was when there's a moment where Ellis as a character of himself, Ron Tabasco. Yeah. Wants to fight. Yeah. Jackson playing a character of himself, Jason Dargan.

Well, let's back up and explain what's going on. There's an episode late in the season where Ellis convinces Jackson to go with him and pretend that they're realtors at a realtor convention. And they create aliases. Yes. Ron Tabasco. So they can be normal. See what it's like to be normal people. Yeah, it's like, you know, an inception when they have to go like three layers deeper into the dream. We have to become even further...

of ourselves to express what's the most honest between us. But I liked when during the resolution of that there's like a walk and talk scene that was supposed to accomplish a different goal. And Rob found it important to be like, well, you know that Ellis didn't want to fight Jackson. That was Ron Tabasco wanting to fight Jason Dargan, which was not in the script. And you and I were both like, I think

Is this something that he needs to say right now for him? Yeah. I don't know. It works. I don't know. It was great. I liked it. That's a good question for you. Yeah. But one thing I really… And I remember when one of the writers or executive producers, I should say, Sean came up with this, was the part where your character says that even if you win the Nobel Prize, if Jackson says even if you win the Nobel Prize, they'll say, I'm sure his dad got him for that. And I just feel like that was a great…

of how we made the show more meta this year. Yeah. We really went into it. Oh, yeah. Like, let's just say all these things that people are going to be thinking about, you know, Rob Lowe having a show with his son, you know? Yeah. Well, that's the sort of catch-22 of the show. And it's funny, even going into sort of starting to do press for this,

There's no way I catch myself. And I think this is where the line blurs with Johnny and Jackson, where that line is so true to my inner thoughts at times where it's like, I had to go do, I not got it. I'm like very excited to go do, to go to New York and do, I think I'm, I'm doing my first solo appearance on Fallon. And that's like very exciting. It's a big deal. I didn't realize that. Yeah. Is that true? It is true.

And then I'm realizing I'm like, yeah, but I'm going to have to talk about this show the entire time. And then it's going to be... Even having your own opportunity to be on TV, you're going to have to talk about your relationship with your father. Think of what the opportunity is born from. Yeah. Right? And I think much is the same for Jackson in our show, which is why it's so interesting to me. It's really actually genuinely interesting to me to...

to live in that parallel. Because, you know, whatever Jackson has accomplished in that show is in many ways a byproduct of having Ellis as a dad. And I don't think that it's always, you know, one plus one equals two where that's why he's there or I'm there. But it's always going to be in the conversation. Right. So there are a lot of things that you guys said to me

Maybe just like in terms of hanging out and just talking about each other where then I put in the script, right? Like an example I remember is when you were talking about somebody who Johnny was seeing and you were like not sure if what they were bringing to the table. And then later that ended up in a script. Did you ever feel like...

either of you guys, like, I shouldn't have taken that. Like, there was something that I took from your guys that you said to me. No, it was great. That's one of my favorite lines because I'm just not sure what she's bringing to the table. Yeah. Because I plant my flag in that. I do. I mean, almost everything Ellis says has at least a kernel of what I would really say. Right.

I mean, usually it's taken to the nth degree for the comedic sense of it. But when Ellis is talking to Jackson, I don't feel like...

What's he talking about? I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Engage your core. Yeah. No, the answer is no. Engage your core. What's this? What's going on with this? What's happening with the hair? I don't know. I think you've got a Jeff Bridges thing going. Jeff Bridges is pretty cool. You do a lot worse. No, yeah, for sure. Jeff Bridges is pretty cool, man. Yeah. He definitely does. But here's the thing I'm worried about. Yeah. I'm worried that I'm going to, that eventually it's going to be one of the, what do they call it?

It's going to be like a top bun. Top bun. I would never do that. You would never. No, no, no, no, no. At what point do you call uncle on the length of the hair? I don't know, man.

What was the question? I don't know. See, I'm just getting to dad stuff. When does the interviewer get here? When does the professional interviewer get here? We need the interviewer, man. This is crazy. Somebody's got to come here. This is getting out of control. And we've been in this shape. Yeah. What are we even talking about? Any other questions for me? You've taken over this podcast and I couldn't be happier. Any other questions for me? When did I piss you off the most, Rob? Oh. Yeah. No, I can't even think of. Okay.

All right. No, I can't. How about you? No, really. When did you piss me off the most? I don't know if we ever got mad at each other, man. No, let me explore this more because people, I think it's interesting. He's more likely to answer that than me. Yeah, no, because I think what, Rob, I think what's good about you is you get upset.

But then you address it and then you don't hold on to anything. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's, that's, you certainly have times. And I know because also you're addicted to sleep. Yes. You know, and you get very tired. You're like, I got to say what's wrong. And then you're like, okay, we dealt with it. Move on. No, I, I, as I get older and I saw it with, I've seen it with actors that I've worked with too. With so many hours in the saddle, it's really, it's like your patience is,

burned. And I can't think of any... My thing is like people who are good showing up, doing their thing and I'm good as long as that's the thing. Our show is so easy to shoot. Super easy. That's the thing. It's so fun and like it's hard to get mad on that set. All right. Well, let's talk about the ensemble. Yeah. Anybody in the ensemble you want to take a shit on? Yes. It's

Those assholes. Just pick the nicest, sweetest. Like you're like Rachel Mark. Yeah. No, there's no one. They're the best. They're the best. I would like, although I would like to just have Rob attempt to list the name. Of the cast? Of the cast. Of the characters or the actors? Either. Either.

I wouldn't be happy with either. This is the kind of stuff that he... I think Rob is so deep into the Ellis character. Yeah, this is right. That he can't... Like, he knows part of his process of getting into the character is that he's not going to remember any of their names. We know this. By the way, you and I know this to be true. Through a very real experience. Can I tell you something? And again, everything... I try to learn from the best. And I remember probably season...

There's only two. Three of the West Wing. Yeah. Season three, probably. And you were in that. I was in that. Yeah. And those are the days we did 22 episodes a season. So do the math. Season three. And I came in and I was like to Martin, I was like,

Hey, how did today go? How was this morning? He goes, great. I did a really good scene. I go, what was the scene? He goes, the one with, we did it with the big lady, Allison Janney. She'd won three Emmys. Yeah. Okay. I now can change my answer of what my favorite part of the shoot was. There was a scene where you had to talk about Ruby and Luna. Thank you. And you kept saying, Luby and Mella. Okay.

Yeah. Ruby and Mella. And Ruby, we were able to get you to, but Mella, it was just Mella. We could not get you off of Mella. Yeah. And so you came in between takes, you came up to me and you said, maybe Ellis's thing is he doesn't remember anyone's name. And I was like, is this just so we can get the feet done? Yeah. Like, are you really giving me character advice or do you just want to get out of here? Yeah.

Yeah, we were scared of both. And I remember we talked about that. We were very scared of setting a precedent. And then moving forward, it was like, maybe Ellis' thing is rapping early for lunch. I don't know. Well, I mean, I remember I said this to you. My response to you when you said that is that I'd heard a story about Nick Nolte and he would come up to directors and be like, I think this character drinks. Yeah.

I thought that's what you were doing to me. You're like, I think this character doesn't care about names. I think this character drinks. That's good. I mean, listen, we got to talk about Fred, who was just on the show. Yes, Fred was on this show. He was on this show. This is his second time. And he's so... You know, Johnny and I went and saw his act and participated in it.

Okay. At Netflix's comedy festival. He had a live act. He had a live act. Here's my favorite joke. So he's a drummer. He's got the drum kit on stage. He's talked about drums. He's played a couple of riffs to establish that the drums are going to be a part of the show. And in the middle of the show, everything goes quiet. And the famous In the Air Tonight song, Phil Collins comes out, which of course has the most famous drum riff of all time. And he walks around the stage just posing.

By the way, it's a long time before that drum riff. Yeah. A really long time. He just walks and poses and walks and poses and the tension builds and you're getting to the famous drum riff and he goes and takes his seat and people are getting crazy and the drum riff comes and instead of going which is the drum, he goes and just plays a stupid like childish... But the bit is that he...

that you've missed is that he keeps going up, but he thinks the drum riff is happening. He goes and sits down and then there's another part of the, that's right. I was there. Oh, he gets up. He's like, oh shit, I missed time. This is, that's, I forgot about that. Um, he's such a, he was better explained than seen. One thing I know, but I love how niche it is. Fred Armisen, who's, who's not, he's not great at physical comedy, obviously,

As somebody who's done a decade on Saturday Night Live. So it's better to hear it from us. I think out of the way we could describe it for you. He was delightful. Well, I was, he was saying, my experience with Fred is always, he's so nice and seems like such a wonderful sport. And of course, I'm like waiting for him to realize always that he's my personal favorite person in the world and on set and pretty much everyone on our show.

And he just never seems to like... You're waiting for that moment where a human would sort of clock in and go like, yeah, I'm kind of the guy here. And that never happens. And then he was saying when he came on the podcast that he was... I'm just like, I'm so happy that the first season was fun and I got to do it. And then you guys asked me back for the second season. And I kind of feel like, yeah, I'm on the show. Like...

And see, that's remarkable. Yeah. That's remarkable to me because I'm like, well, yeah, you are. Yeah, we're obsessed with you. Like, what are you talking about? We love... He's my favorite. Fred days are the best days on set. Fred days. Yeah. By far. They're so fun. They bring an element of danger, of unpredictability. You really don't know what's going to happen. And it's not even...

that it's improvisational. It's that him just doing what's there feels different than what's on the page. Every time. It's like, if he just says the lines, it's not like he has to make up some whole thing. Him just, he just...

His rhythms are so like the opposite of what you might expect. Even if you know all his work and you're like, this is what Fred would do here. It's like, nope. Nope. You never know. He's a true original. And his process is so funny too because he truly doesn't want to know what's going on until he gets on the set. Well, that to me might just be like,

a process that's just like, you know, convenient. Hey, I don't have to read a script if I just show up. By the way, I wish if I was as funny and as good as he was, I would be the same. Listen, if it's worth, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. No, he 100%. Where you're from completely shapes who you are. If you're looking for change or rethinking the place, your family will call home

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I mean, we should talk about the cast. The whole cast. Everyone's great. We added… We added Lamorne Morris. Lamorne just got nominated for an Emmy. For what? Fargo. For Fargo. Fine.

I didn't see it. Does he have an accent? Does he do the accent? Yeah. Yeah. Fargo accent? You guys are making me feel like now I'm crazy. I'm happy. He's great in that show. I have nothing bad to say about that show. He's coming on the show when we're done. We'll have him later today. Oh, you do? He's coming in today. He won't be. He'll be Zooming. He's Zooming in. Okay. Should I have done that? Is it crazy that I came here in person? No, it's great. I think it's weird. Listen, Lindsey Buckingham came here in person. Oh.

I'm just saying. Legends only. Kenny Loggins came here. He lives here, though. Yeah, but he still came here.

- Well, Morten is fantastic. He's so good at it. - Yeah. - Iris is great. We added Iris Apatow. She's great. - Yeah. Very talented young… - She comes off across great. - And… Everybody else from season one carried their load and improved so much. - Sean Clifford's always the best. - Sean Clifford's the best. - She's got a movie coming out. - Yeah. The swimming one with Daisy Ridley. Where she swims the channel.

Which woman in the sea? Yeah, Sean really pushed me in the best way. You know what I mean? She was someone who was like, can we keep working on this? Can we keep working on this? I mean, I don't think anyone pushed me as much as she did. And it always got better because of her. So I was very grateful for that. And I thought Rachel and Emma are...

What they're tasked with this season is not easy, and I thought they did a really good job. Well, we drilled a little deeper into their friendship and competitive...

Yeah. Yeah. All those scenes where you guys go and hang out feel super authentic to me. Right? Yeah. And by the way, it is. They have all become very close friends too. And Aaron is so funny. I think. Yeah. I went to see him do stand-up the other day. How was it? I bet it was great. Really polished. I mean, really good. I mean, I wasn't surprised, but like you

He really has his stage persona down. Like really funny. That's awesome. Yeah. And I saw him. He was just trying out new stuff. And I would never have guessed that from… And then we have the twins still. Oh, God. They were so funny. Yeah. Have you ever seen them do stand-up? I haven't. They're very funny.

What are you doing? I want the twins to testify at more public hearings. Yeah, you mean Chad and JT. You want them to do it. Yeah. Well, what was crazy to me was that when JT showed up this year, he was like, I got twins now. He has twins? Twins have twins? I think one of the twins has twins. I don't think so.

I could... That's impossible. I think that's a lie. It just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, you're just trying to like make entertainment. Yeah, that's... What's happening here, man? You can tell in this... Just telling content. One thing you can tell about me in this podcast right now is I'm bringing the entertainment. That's what I've been here tasked with. Johnny and I... So what's going on right now? I was going to say, Johnny... Interpreting you guys. Like how are things with you guys right now? Um...

Things at the moment seem to be okay. Do you like Johnny's new girlfriend? I don't have a new girlfriend. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Thank you. How about this? You motherfuckers. Listen, I saw. I think she's great. And I'm just going by what I see in the paparazzi. What do you want from me? Yeah.

I'm not the one who got my picture taken by a paparazzi. It's not my fault. Did you know I have a funny story for you? We had a 4th of July party. No, it's on topic. We had a 4th of July party and my mom… It was fun. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, man. You know… It was great. You know what? We figured you wouldn't make the drive up here for small stuff. Podcast is one thing. And my mom spotted a paparazzi on the beach and…

Called the police. And I believe said, I feel scared for my life. And that made me laugh so hard. And I thought you would get a kick out of that. And then proceeded to build…

a makeshift paparazzi wall out of umbrellas turned on their sides. And it did not occur to anyone that he could just walk around that and shoot from the other side. But he didn't. He didn't. It worked. Did he get any good photos? Well, that was also the best part. It was that upon being confronted when they were asked politely, hey, could you not do this? You're not shooting to someone's home. He said, I don't know what anyone's problem is. Rob's been posing for me for the last hour. Yeah.

He also said Johnny. I don't know about that, man. He also said Johnny. You got to give the people what they want. Yeah. Give them the shot. They'll go home. Yeah. Suck it in. Do your thing. It's not a hill I'm willing to die on. How's your guys' love lives? I mean, same. Same, same. We're boring. We're married idiots, Johnny. I want to head back to this with you. How do people feel about

What about like you do another Jiminy Glick impersonation right now? Just stick the landing here. Tell me a little bit about all the young ones you're seeing now. Oh, but you're doing this line of questioning as Jiminy Glick. Okay. Well, how about we shift it to your romantic life on the show? On the show. Yes. Yeah, I think that there… I think we did such a good job this year of balancing…

the tricky love triangle dynamics and introducing... Pivoting away from last year's... Well, I don't want to give away too much and suggest too much. But also, by the way, I think in the pivot, I rewatched the full season recently. I don't know if you've done that recently. No. You had to? I did it for fun. I did it for fun. By yourself? Or with your new girlfriend? But...

I just so happen to have a Netflix show and it's second season, baby. Hey, do you want to come back to my place and watch Netflix? I wonder if I just… I want a Netflix show. I wonder if I just… Except we're not going to have sex. We're actually going to watch Netflix because I have a show. And that's what gets me off. I would never… The thought, the notion of being like finishing a date and you're going to watch something and you put your own thing on makes me want to…

crawl out of my skin. But haven't you, Rob, you've done that? You've like gone to a girlfriend's house and had her watch a TV movie that you were just in? You know, you're setting me up beautifully. I did that very thing with Cary Grant's daughter and Cary Grant watched it. So maybe you're missing an opportunity. Yeah, you can meet Cary Grant. I can meet Cary Grant? Who would today be? I could meet Cary Grant's daughter. You could do it.

You would be Cary Grant. You? Yeah. I have a question for you. Are you being ageist when you don't give me a love interest? Am I being ageist? And you give John Owen one on the show? Well, there's a couple of issues there. I'm so glad you brought this up. Okay? Okay. One. Me too. Widower. So that was something we were managing. Right. Widower. My character is a widower. And then two.

So hard to believe that this Ellis character could love someone more than himself. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. Yeah. He's not listening to you. You know, there's a tone of his voice where he's preparing what he's about to say and whatever you said is just sort of like fodder. But

I know what you're saying. Yeah. Also, it's not… To add to what Andrew's saying… I'll say it a different way. Maybe the Ellis character could be perceived as being… And this was what was discussed in the room. Me-sexual. Yes. I was going to say that. So why did we not…

Wait, wait, wait, wait. We have time. You had me sexual in your quiver and that never made it into the show? No, no. We've talked about this ad nauseum in the writer's room. Guys, Ellis says me sexual is so good. God damn it. I want to be me sexual. Yeah. Well. We know. Yeah, we know. Yeah. That's how do you think we got there in the room? No, but it's more his character where he's at right now is more interesting without a love interest. And by the way,

I'm not sure there isn't a love interest in the show already. You know, we don't know. It's, it's unclear. There's, I think Ellis has, you know, I think the obvious thing for a while was, is there some connection between him and Lamorne's character?

Yes, we did talk about that quite a bit. Between, yeah. Or, um... One of the twins. By the way, no, really what it would be would be Malcolm and Ellis. There's definitely something weird going on. Oh, for sure. Yeah, it feels very strange. That's already happening. Yeah, so it's him and Malcolm, but he makes Malcolm wear an Ellis mask. That's right, yeah. Right. I need to ask Jon Owen, because Jon Owen's getting... This is insane. Jon Owen's getting ready to do his first...

big New York press. He's going to do as you said. We did it last year. Alone. I did stuff alone last year. Not at this level.

I did. Did you? I did. Name it. See, there you go. Watch What Happens Live is a fun… Watch What Happens Live for a certain demographic. Going back with a real housewife of New Jersey, I'll have you know. Are you really? Yeah. Oh, you want to know something funny about that? Yeah. I like Bravo, so I like doing Watch What Happens Live. It's the Andy Cohen talk show. Andy's great. And I'm a big fan of Bravo. I love all the shows, but I haven't dove into the world of housewives.

And they said, can you, does he watch this show, Real Housewives of New Jersey? I said, no, but, you know, I'll have fun. And they said, well, he should familiarize himself. And so they sent me screeners. And so I'm currently in the process of catching up on season 14 of Real Housewives of New Jersey. And let me tell you something. It is the most insane thing I've ever seen in my life. So you started with season 14?

Yeah, because, and I have you, okay, you really want me to show you, this is real, this is not a bit. Can I show you something? And I'll see if you guys can see it on the screen. If not, maybe I'll send it. Literally, I had to take a screenshot of the Wikipedia page. And this is an image of all of the various people that have been cast members. At what season they were a main or a friend. And I like that then they get designated as just friends of the housewives. If you get demoted. This will kill audio.

This picture of his face. People are going to be like, more talking about your phone, please. But I pull it up to say like I'm literally, I have that, a photo pulled up that sort of is a guide of who's who. And I just watch. I'm doing my homework on that. And what's your takeaway? Like if you were going to indoctrinate me to the world of the housewives. That,

you kind of live in it already. Like, I think the real housewives of Montecito would, you'd, you'd watch that show and you, and you'd recognize the character. You'd recognize it. You'd be, you'd go, Oh, is there one who's like your mom on the show? Yeah, for sure. Yes. I won't say which one I think is like mom, but yes, for sure. And then like, just like a super sexy lady. Yeah, exactly. Like a MILF. Man, like a real MILF. That's such a bummer. Yeah.

It is? Your mother's very beautiful. Don't do it. Don't do it. Like, why is that a bummer? This is the first bit you want to stick tonight. This morning. This is the one you want to lean into. Okay. I just don't know why you can't see how attractive your mother is. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Where'd you get your good looks from? From mama. Oh, my God. This is horrible. And it's like 10, not even 10 in the morning. We were talking about something. You can't find your mother attractive until after lunch. Okay.

Yeah, you wrote a whole show about it, man. Fuck you. All right. We got to wrap this thing up. I got Lamar Morris in the... I mean, that was it? It goes fast. You know how long we've been talking? Feels like he doesn't... Feels like we didn't even get into the mean potatoes here. What do you mean? Let him ask one... We just talked about your mom being attractive. I want him to ask... The deeper it can go. One...

Last question. I have to ask the question? Yeah, why don't you ask? Listen, I'm not the one who didn't bring an interviewer. I can't believe nobody showed up. There's literally an empty chair. Okay, okay, okay. Wait, wait. Can I ask a question on you? Yeah. If anyone could have showed up as the interviewer of this, who would have been your dream interviewer but for this dynamic? Not just your dream interviewer for this moment. Geraldo. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. Just say something. Yeah. Jiminy Glick. Yeah. Oh, God. All right. Quick fire round. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Great. Right here. This is what we're doing. Because, you know, all shows have to have gimmicks now. It can't just be conversation. So my gimmick is one last question for each of us called quick fire. John Owen, what are you wearing on Fallon?

Oh, your stylist actually texted me to make sure we don't have too much crossover. That's not true. That's a lie. 100% lie. Okay. I'm wearing… You'll see. Will it be good? You'll see. Yeah. Yeah. It will be good. Will I have Ajita about it? I don't know, man. Can I suggest something? Yeah. Just like body art, like body paint.

Oh, don't worry. Body paint tuxedo, maybe. A body paint tuxedo? How would you do that? Because there's layers. All right. Okay. Now, your last question. I have to ask you a question. Yeah. Yes. Okay. What would you most like to see on season three? Ooh. I want to follow our cliffhanger. Yeah. Which we're not going to divulge. Which we're not going to divulge. But it's very topical. It's very... By the way, if this were real right now, Ellis...

That might happen. Yeah. Yeah. That could 100% happen. Absolutely. Without saying too much. Without saying too much. 100% happen. I've been thinking about that a lot lately, to be honest with you. Me too. Yeah. Me too. And I look forward to what that does, what kind of hierarchy we put together.

to make that happen and who plays what role in that hierarchy. God, that's so damn vague. That's so vague for people who have not seen it. But let's just, I'll say this, that Ellis's mental instability could become a bigger issue if he's on a bigger stage. And seeing that happen and Jackson having to manage that would be really interesting. Oh, I will say this because this has nothing to do with the season finale.

But the episode where my character gets amnesia. Yeah. And doesn't really, and the question is, does he really know where he is or what he's doing? I have felt has very much played out in the public consciousness. A hundred percent. And, and it literally that, you know, that is exactly what was going on. I think he's good today. Yeah. He's, he's, he's completely great. And then he wanders off down a staircase. I have a fun dimension thing. Yeah.

I have a really fun dementia thing. So my dad's doing fine, but he has slight dementia, right? He's just like a little bit like, a little bit confused here and there. And so I went to visit him in North Carolina and he would look at me and every so often go, you know, I never wanted kids.

And then like, I was like, yeah, I know. And then like 10 minutes later, you know, I never wanted kids. I don't like, yeah, you told me that. Those were the short moments where he was lucid. Yeah. Yeah. I was just like, you do know I'm your kid. He goes, yeah, yeah. And it turned out great. And I'm glad I did. You know what I mean? But it's like with dogs, I never liked dogs, but then I got one. I was like, it's not so bad. Amazing. All right, Johnny, you got one. My last question is, um, uh,

Whose pants do you think fit better, mine or Andrew's? Well, you have chicken legs. Yeah. You have the legs of an actual chicken. And what is more delicious than a chicken leg? You just want to suck the meat off of that thing, am I right? Johnny, when you go to the gym, do you ignore your legs? It's your genes, man.

No, I didn't have chicken. We used to call Chad Lowe's sausage legs. Sausage legs? Didn't you know that? No. I love Chad. Yeah, Chad Lowe's sausage legs. But you have like Hulk Hogan. I'm not going to be part of body shaming conversations. No, but you'll suck on my succulent chicken legs. Succulent. That's inappropriate sexual. Succulent chicken. John Owen is a succulent chicken. I'll do inappropriate sexual. I won't do body shaming. Right, right, right, right, right. Well, everybody, this...

We have to see each other before season three. When do you think we're going to get season three? Well, I mean, I don't have a crystal ball, but I think probably in like within the next 10 minutes. I'll say one thing. Andrew called me. I think I told you that Andrew called me to talk about, you know, hey, we're doing this podcast together. And he goes, you think there's any way we get to do more of that thing? And I liked where your angle was, where it was like, how could that possibly be?

How could it be? No, I wasn't saying that. I was saying it more like in a positive way. Like, this is a fun job. And like, you want the fun ones to last longer. That's right. And we would crush it. Everyone would love it. But I just liked the notion of like, man, wouldn't that be crazy? Yeah. Well, listen, we just need everybody listening to watch the show and finish the show. And we got the best pitch man in the business. Yeah. And we got Rob.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. If everybody listening to this watches our show when it comes out... Unstable. Unstable. Season 2. Netflix. August 1st. And finishes it. Because that's also important to us. Yeah, they're very into finishing. This is an interesting thing. Yeah. So am I, by the way. They're like...

The closer. You got to finish the shows. Don't think that you can download it, watch a couple episodes, and come back in three weeks and finish it. Netflix does not. No. They do not like that. Yeah. Bring it home. Yeah. You binge our show. I guarantee you I'll get my chicken legs out in season three. And then I will finish. Can't do better than that, boys. That was fun. All right. That was super fun. That was a fun one.

I mean, that little bastard, Jono and Lo, what am I going to do with him? And Andrew Gerland, funny man. Super, super funny. Anyway, don't forget to download season two, Unstable, Netflix. And we'll be back next week. Some really good stuff here on Literally. And as always, thanks for listening.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Sean Doherty, with help from associate producer Sarah Begar and research by Alyssa Grau. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel. Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Nick Liao, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd. Music by Devin Bryant. Sponsored by...

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