Ellie Kemper: When She Reigns
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Hey, everybody. Welcome to Literally. It's me, Ellie Kemper. I love me some Ellie Kemper. Don't really know Ellie that well, which we'll get into, but I'm just a fan. Big, unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt and Office fan, as you guys know. I love The Office. And she's got a new podcast, so maybe I'll learn some stuff from her, or maybe she'll learn some stuff from me. Who the hell knows? Anyway, let's get to it with the amazing and lovely Ellie Kemper.

You're in the house. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. Where are you? Where am I finding you? I am live in New York City. I am across the country. I was just singing the praises of fall in New York, which there's nothing like it. The colors on the leaves are starting to change. Everything is pumpkin. It's just iconic. It's so sick. I mean, in California, it's just so sick.

You have to live here for so long to appreciate the incremental, like, angle of the sun. I'm like, I must be part Pawtuxie Phil, you know, who comes out as... Because I'm super, like...

I can feel the angle of the sun. And then I know what to be like. Oh, yeah, it's almost springtime. That's exactly because you've lived there so long. You are so sensitive. The instrument has been so sharpened so that you can tell. It's true. I lived in L.A. for, I don't know, seven years, eight years.

And I was just beginning to be able to determine those slight changes. You feel, because weirdly, September is like the worst of all, the hottest of all, I should say, in LA, right? So nothing like. Nothing like, like there's no crisp, like also when I come back east, because I grew up in the east, like, you know, you can smell the cold coming. Oh.

I love it. Right? I'm not crazy, right? No, you're not. You can smell the cold coming and I'm not... And the profound effect it has on your mood, or at least my mood, is so deep. It's like a... I mean, I don't want to get crazy here, but it's like a drug. You're like, this is such an endorphin rush. It's fantastic. And I'm sorry you're not experiencing it right now. I know. I mean, we...

We have our own thing here where it's like the air starts getting, instead of smelling the cold, you can smell the dryness coming. Yeah. Because we get like the Santa Ana winds and all this stuff. Yeah. But it's something. It's something. I mean, I'll take it. I remember when I was a kid and I moved from Ohio and my first Christmas in LA, it was so depressing. Oh.

I know. Because it would snow in Ohio, I'm assuming. Or at least it would be cold. At least it'd be cold. I remember it was in it. It's almost always, I'd like to look at the stats. It's almost always weltering on Christmas Day. I know. I was there last year for Christmas. And because I was coming from New York, I was like, oh, this is nice. It's like a vacation. It was 85. Yeah.

It was like pool weather. Yes. But it's disconcerting. And especially as a kid. How old were you when you moved to LA? 12. Yeah. That's hard. That's what I'm dreaming of a white Christmas is, right? It's like December the 24th. I'm longing to be up north. Not that I know all those lyrics. But yeah, there's something that is... Wait a minute. I'm the way... I don't think...

I'm, it's, it's the 24th. No, no, no. I'm dreaming of being up north. That doesn't appear anywhere in that song. It's the prelude. The prelude? The prelude. There's like a spoken word? It's a spoken word prelude. I'm open to be up north. I will not.

Well, should I sing it? Yes. It's the grass or the palms are swinging. The grass is green. The orange and palm trees sway. There's never been such a day in Beverly Hills, LA.

What? But it's December the 24th and I'm longing to be up north. Wait, wait, you're making this up. That's not a part of White Christmas. It is. It's it's we learned that in my elementary school before we, you know, sang White Christmas. I mean, maybe that was like a Conway School original. I don't know. You're telling me they name check Beverly Hills. Yes, I know.

Because, you know, that was- Like, we get it. Like, yeah, we get it. You're rich. How about pay for a flipping vacation, pal? Yeah. I live in Ohio. I work in an assembly line. Yeah.

Yeah. And you're going to drop Beverly Hills, LA? Oh, I see. It's just so miserable because you're warm and I can't pay my oil bill. Yeah. Fuck off. Yeah. So good for you. Who sang it? Was it Bing Crosby? Who sang White Christmas? It was one of those crooners. It was Bing Crosby, but he didn't write it.

No, he didn't write it. In those days, they just like, you put a paper in front of them, they sang whatever the hell you put in front of them. Yes, that's exactly right. We've gotten back to that, ironically. Now it's like every singer on any song feels, unless they're the auteurs, we all know who they are, who write and do their own stuff. But everybody else feels like so disconnected to their work. They could be singing about Mars. Well, I am very interested in this because you just said, obviously, there are the auteurs. We all know who they are.

I have to correct you because I am a dummy who doesn't always know who they are. Like it was news to me. I have a question. Yeah. Does Beyonce write her own songs? I was under the impression she did. I think she certainly has a part in it. I mean, listen, when you get to be Beyonce, whether you're actually writing or not, you're writing. You know what I'm saying? Well, yeah. Yeah, I know what you're saying. You're like, hey, I think the word the would be better than the word and. And you're writing. Right, right, right, right, right.

I like, you know, Taylor Swift. I didn't go to any of the Eros tours this or concerts this summer. I didn't go. I'm a Taylor Swift fan, but I didn't go.

But I guess that's what everyone always brings up with Taylor Swift is, oh, well, you know, she's like the best songwriter and that it's like the exception that she writes her own songs. She is. I mean, yeah. I mean, you look at like, I don't think Ariana Grande writes her own. I mean, they're singers. These are old time singers like this Christina Aguilera is the Ariana Grande is Celine Dion's. They were old singers. Yeah.

See, that's so interesting because I really did think, oh, well, they write their song. I mean, yes, they have input, but I thought that they were in the studio writing their songs. But yeah, if that's old school, like if Bing Crosby didn't write everything, I mean, that makes sense. Maybe because I'm wearing a Rolling Stone t-shirt right now, but have you seen the Joni Mitchell at Newport Beach where she performed, I think, the last year or

doing on both sides now. I mean, when people talk about Taylor, I love Taylor too, but you listened to what Joni Mitchell was writing and singing. I mean, come on. No, what was this? Was this a, she gave a concert last year? Yeah, you know, she's been ill forever and, you know, and she came back finally and sang three or four songs. So if you're listening out there, Google Joni Mitchell, Newport Beach on both sides now.

I'm going to Google that as soon as we're finished talking. Get ready to lose it. Get ready to lose it. Oh, my gosh. Get ready to lose it. That song. Whoa. Yeah, that song's insane. She wrote it when she was 20, either 22 or 24. That's the other thing. There seems to be an age.

And it's, I think it's 24. There's the famous 27. That's when you overdose and die, right? At 27. But at 24, before you overdose and die, 24 is like the fertile. That's when I think Springsteen wrote Born to Run and Dylan wrote most of his stuff and, you know, on and on and on. Do you know what this is? So this summer, I have two kids. I have a son.

I have a seven, they're both boys, seven-year-old and a four-year-old. I noticed we both have sons named Matthew. Yes, good name. It's a great name. Is he Matthew or is he Matt? He's Matthew. Same. Yeah. And I always want him to be Matthew. Me too. And James. Good name. I didn't think until they were like, until I was at a park with them and saying, Matthew, James, it did not occur to me how like biblical it is. I know that they're both names in the Bible, but they're- Can I tell you how I named Matthew?

Anytime I talk to somebody who's funny, inevitably, it comes back to Lorne Michaels. Even if you've not been on Saturday Night Live, he's in the room with us. Yeah. So, at the point in my life when I was having the kids and Cheryl was having the kids, I was super, super, super, super close with Lorne. And his kids are exactly the same age as mine. And we were talking about naming kids. And I was like, I don't know, man. It's hard for me because...

Inevitably, I think of a name and it reminds me of some asshole in the playground or somebody stole a girlfriend from me or something or whatever. And Lauren goes, you know, Rob, I think the King's names are best. I don't disagree with Lorne Michaels on that. And obviously you don't. Obviously, you and I both were like, thank you. Exactly. James. Yes. Matthew. Edward. Yes.

William. William, thank you. Couldn't think of another king. Yeah. I love that that was his piece of advice. Because do you know why I happen to agree with him? It's because, you know, their names, they've stood the test of time. Yes. Their names that I will remember. I'll remember his name. Yes.

Well, you could also make the case, though, that if your name is Apple, you're not forgetting that name. Well, no, that name is not one you'll forget. It's true. Well, that's true. And the other thing is, I think the crazy original names are hard. Do we know that many boys that have had them? I mean, there was Dweezil Zappa. Yeah, that's right. I'm remembering his name right now. He's still top of mind, as they would say in corporate America.

Top of mind, weasel zapper. But there, I wouldn't trust my own imagination to make up a name that would actually have any like staying power. I think that, I think that I will defer to the people who have been naming people for years and years and years. Yes. And pick up a name like Matthew and James. And, and, yeah,

Yeah, it is like I'm calling in the, you know, biblical men, the men's names who filled the Bible. But they make sense. Having said that, what I also go, James and Jimmy, those are two totally different names. Oh, you're going to name him Jimmy. And maybe he'll change it to that. But that's a way different vibe. Well, it's like with Robert. There's Robert. There's Rob. Rob is not that common, really, when you really think about it. There's a lot of Roberts. Yep. There's a lot of...

Bob's Bobby. That is the thing about an Elizabeth. You get all those. It's a classical name, but there's so many iterations of it. Do you know I'm Elizabeth? Really? I mean, my name's Ellie. Ellie Elizabeth. Wow. It's a full Elizabeth. I just had to interject before. Wow, that's great. I didn't know that. Ellie, I didn't know. No, you wouldn't. I didn't know that was a possibility for Elizabeth. Well, this is what's crazy. My mom, who's incredibly smart,

She named me Elizabeth and she named my sister Catherine. And she gave us the two most unlikely nicknames. She nicknamed me Ellie and my sister Catherine Carrie.

which really don't line up with our full legal names. And it was very unlike her because she usually does things that I think make more sense. No, no, that's amazing. She was wild. Because if there's a knock on these traditional names is that they're not memorable and they could maybe be boring and that completely...

binoculates you against that criticism. Yeah. Well, you're so right. Maybe that's what she was going for. Now, on the other side of it, though, my lovely brother, Chad Lowe, is a firm believer in names that are different. So I have a niece named Nixie. Nixie is, as I'm now told, a Irish sea nymph.

Oh. And, and, and you go, I go, really? And you know what? Now that Nixie is in the world, that's of course the only name. It's the only possible name. Yeah. Right? Oh, oh, that suits her. Yeah. And then I, and then he has his, my oldest niece, he's like, I was like, what are you going to name? Cause you're, they knew they were having a girl. What are you going to name the girl?

And he says, Mabel. And I instantly think of like a 80-year-old short order waitress. Well, that's right. And I'm like, real? And now it feels like the most beautiful, like, I don't know. It's just amazing the way people own their names.

take on their name yeah and that's why i never understand sorry is mabel born yeah and she's 12 and like she's it's very glad it feels mabel has gone from short order cook to glamorous i was i was gonna say it's to me it's the same as like a mod yes right where it's like be arthur and then there's maude you can sing that now can you sing that song

That one, I don't know. I can't pretend to own that song. No, I don't know. But you, take it away. Well, you don't have to. There's a spoken word to that, and I don't remember it. It is, to me, it is... Oh, that's why it's like mind-boggling to me when people do change their names or when people...

Who may have had like a sort of, I don't know, they may have considered their nickname childish. Like Billy or, I have a brother Billy. Billy or, I don't know, Willie? I don't know. What are names that seem like fun and childish? And then when they become adults, maybe they want to be Bill or Will. To me, that's like a huge...

because you're suddenly not your name anymore. Well, how about in acting? When you want to be a serious actor, you just put an initial in the middle of it. Oh, shit.

Put an initial. I'm telling you right now, there are two things you can do as a young actor. If you're listening, people are interested. Yeah. Get a passport from Australia or England. Yep. So you're already halfway to the line of getting an Emmy. Yeah. Just by that. And put a middle initial and you're blowing by all kinds of people. Yep. Don't you agree? I completely agree. When I see the name, my name, Ellie...

Ellie is becoming a more popular name, by the way. I've just noticed I'm observing more Ellies in the world. It's always been, I think, bigger in the UK. I think there's always been Ellies. But I'm noticing. And I'll say this. And again, forgive me because no serious Ellies are coming to mind right now. But I do think it's hard.

When I look at my name, Ellie Kemper, well, that's not, well, what's serious about that? It's just not so serious. So if I do, you know. Ellie F. Kemper. Ellie F. Kemper. Yeah. When you go through your Steve Carell phase where you're doing nothing but wanting to try to win an Oscar. How did he get so good at being so serious? He really did. You ever seen Foxcatcher? Yes. Yes.

That was crazy. Crazy good. And it was crazy good. And I was like, wait, what? What just? What happened? Well, I'll tell you what happened. Here's what happened. Funny people can be dramatic, but dramatic people cannot necessarily be funny. That's a stone fact. I think that that's true. I don't know. Not even think. 100%. It's true. I know many, many and observe many, many actors who,

who are leading men or serious actors and they, you know, don't get a chance to be funny and they want to be funny and they go on SNL or they do a movie and it is painful, painful. Yeah. Yep. Well, that is interesting. I mean, because, so I did a lot of improv in college and in New York and, and everyone's always like, well, how do you teach improv? How do you take classes in that? And I, I mean, I hope I won't offend anyone, but it's like,

You can teach like the tenets and the lessons of, okay, well, this is how to be successful in a scene. But I don't, like you're saying, which I think is what you're saying, you can't necessarily teach like someone to be funny. No. Or they're funny or they're not. No. Right? But you're either funny or you're not, 100%. Now, there are the exceptions. So if you are profoundly unfunny,

You can also be hilarious. Oh, that's true. Right? And I say this with all love and respect. William Devane, one of the great, great dramatic actors and a fantastic, one of my favorite. William Devane, marathon man. William Devane, you go through his 70s and 80s, amazing. He played my father in a show called The Grinder. Stole every scene he was in.

With the writers writing exactly the right line for him that he had never had any idea why it was funny. Now, isn't that brilliant? Would he admit that? Would he understand that he...

He knew he was killing. He's a genius. He's one amazing actor. So he knew. It wasn't like he was like, what is going on here? But it would never have been his instinct to murder with the kind of dialogue he got. Just deadpan. So you see that. You can see that a lot. And it's because they're playing it so real. Yes, so straight. Isn't it? So straight. So it's so straight that it's like, oh, well, this is...

And honestly, although again, no names are coming to mind, but in a show like 30 Rock, I think when they would invite dramatic actors on and they get it by playing it straight. What do you think when we, I think this is so fascinating to try to understand because there's like the performance, but then there's also the perception of the performance. So when a serious, oh, sorry. When a funny actor, somebody we know and love and who's beloved goes in,

and does their serious thing, it can be complicated because sometimes fans are confused. And why are we seeing our funny man try to be serious? We don't like it. We want laughs. And then sometimes they come around. And I always wonder, well, how does that play out? I guess it's just, I guess it's just acting. Well, listen, I don't know how it is for them. I can only, as somebody who gets to do both a lot, for me, the...

When I'm doing comedy, it doesn't feel like I'm working at all. And then when I'm doing something dramatic, I come home at night and go, that was a day. So it gets, it's kind of like, where do you want to be in your life? Like if I've done a drama for a long time, I'm like tired and I just want to play. But if I, but I remember doing Parks and Rec, I would come, I would come home and go, I need to go to work.

I need to like do something. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Isn't that nice? It's great. Or maybe you don't like having the break, but it does. But see, you're...

of course, I think different because you've, haven't you always been known for doing both? So it's not like, why are we seeing him serious all of a sudden? Like we know he can do both. Right. No, that's true. That's true. But there are, so who would it be like if you saw, I mean, can you imagine Daniel Day-Lewis in a comedy? I mean, again, unless he were just playing it so straight. I know there are,

No one. Oh, here's a good one. Oh, here's a good one. Gene Hackman in Royal Tannenbaums. Yeah. Yeah. Really funny. Yeah. But playing it completely straight. And that's how that is accomplished, I think. Yeah.

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Qualifying plan required. Wi-Fi were available on select U.S. airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15% discount terms and conditions apply. Tell me about your new podcast. I need to be a professional podcaster right now and ask you questions. Okay, so I have a podcast on iHeartRadio and it's called Born to Love. And it is, like your show, supposed to be an upbeat podcast.

I mean, you tell me. Maybe your show comes across as being upbeat. Well, because I'm upbeat, you're upbeat. It's you. It's you. It's me. It's me. It's me and it's my longtime friend, Scott Eckert. And we host a show. We have guests come on every week to talk about something that they love. So it's supposed to be like this buoyant sort of bright show.

And there's nothing too heavy. We want to provide some light. We don't want to get too serious, but that is what we're trying to do on the show. So it's been really fun. I mean, how long? You've been doing this show for a few years now, right? Yeah, a few years. Jesus. Yeah. Well, how do you? I love it. Because it's like, first of all, hosting a podcast. Because I get to talk with my friends. So Scott and I went to college together. We did improv together. We hadn't worked on anything in like a year.

a decade. And then we said over the pandemic, we were like, what could we work on? Well, a podcast seems feasible. And then we just started throwing ideas around. But it is so nice to catch up with him and have people that you've never necessarily met on the show. Like what a way to reach out. Which do you like better having? Because for me, it's different. And I like them both for different reasons. Having somebody you know super well or having somebody you don't know at all.

Which do you like better? Same? At the very beginning, we were having mostly just friends because they were the ones who would do us a favor and say yes. And it's so enjoyable because isn't it weird that the only time you would catch up with an old friend is on a podcast? But that's what was happening, you know? Yes. You're like, why don't we just see each other or have dinner? No, no, no. It's at 1 p.m. on a weekday over the computer. Okay, I'll take it. But that was like really, really fun because we caught up with some old college friends and stuff like that. But then...

I do love talking. It's so great when you have people on that you admire and had never met. Like, that's fantastic. Because when else would you have met them? Now, you, I imagine, have a lot of friends in the industry. So, like, who... Well, you and I don't know each other super well. No, no. But, like, who are some people who you...

Didn't know what, is there anyone you didn't know at all? Let me just say that I think you and our relationship fits another category, which is I feel like I know you really well. Same. We've spent some time together. Yeah. Not a lot.

No. But... So it's kind of the best of both worlds. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? Like, natural repartee. Like, it's super interesting. That category is a good category. I like that category because it is also...

I feel like because of the Parks and Rec and the office type thing, it's like, oh, it's that same world. Yeah. And then also, can I say his name? The one who unites everyone? Mr. Richard Weitz. That's right. Richard Weitz.

I love, can I call him out? I love Richard. We're going to tell Richard White. Richard White is our mutual agent and now runs the entire WME agency. Yeah. He's phenomenal. Do you know what I love about Richard is it's like he is a quintessential agent. Oh, yeah. Right? Through and through, in his blood. And by that, for me, what that means is everything we know and hate about agents. Yeah.

In spades. But the other part of it is, because there's a lot of people that are just that. Yeah. That's not good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other part is that he's a true fan. Yeah. Fan with a capital F. Yep. Isn't that great? And that loves talent. And there are so many people in our business now that are at best agnostic about talent. Yeah.

They love the business. They're a fan of the business. But they're not a fan of talent. And...

that's the part of the business I miss because those are the people that make the business great. Well, he does feel old school in that way. That's right. Where it's like, oh, right. I mean, because my sense is that, especially managers, but managers and agents would almost collaborate with their clients creatively on stuff. And that you almost are giddy about

seeking new talent and finding and appreciating what talent is doing. And Richard is that. Richard, he was, he, I said, cause you originally made Kimmy Schmidt for NBC. Yeah.

Right. And, you know, I follow everything in the industry, particularly when it comes to people who I admire, like Tina and Carlock and Tina Fey, who created your show. Yep. And is also a Richard client. And then it wasn't at NBC. And I was like, that's, I'm like, that's such a bummer. He goes, all right, I already saw it to Hulu.

I was like, oh, okay. Right? By the way, the impression is spot on. It's always on. I mean, and he did. Yeah. And he did. And you guys got to go for another three years or four years, whatever it was. Whereas I think it was going to be on, you know, in the middle of the summer for probably, probably wouldn't have seen the light of day to be brutally honest. And he essentially saved it. I mean, I hope I can say that, but he did. And he also, I saw him last spring.

Um, let's see. Maybe it was before the strikes. I can't remember. No, I think it's just after. Anyway, and he was so excited. He goes, I'm exhausted. I was in Chicago last night seeing that Tina and Amy are doing, you know, a live show. I think I haven't seen it yet. They're doing like a two person show. It's the greatest idea I've ever heard. I don't know. Correct? Oh, yes. I mean, like, listen, when they hosted the Golden Globe. Oh, come on. Come on.

We were so lucky just as a, well, not even as a country, as a world. Are they broadcast internationally? Those two women have such an effortless repartee, first of all. Yes. But that's beside the point. They're both just so funny that even if they didn't know each other, it would be...

dynamite. It's like, I feel great. I'm not kidding. I'm not trying to be corny, but I'm so grateful that they're like in the world. No, and they're both of them. Each of them individually is amazing. I know. And together it's exponential. And that's rare for comedy teams. Comedy teams, you split them up and individually. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And they're just murderers. Yep. And they're both singular in, like, their voices are very distinct, I think, right? Yes. Like, when they've gone off to produce their own projects, they're different, right? Absolutely. They have their mark on them, and they're distinctive. I would say Amy's a little sunnier. Yeah. And Tina is a little more biting. Yeah.

Yeah. Wouldn't you say? Yeah. And they're both fantastic in each way. And then what's great is that when they come together, that's why I'm dying to see this show. When they hosted Weekend Update, it was iconic. It's just weird, right? Like, yeah, I just remember them hosting the Golden Globes. Did you? Four years? You auditioned for SNL. Yeah, I did. How did you not get SNL? Well, you're nice to say that, but it is... Wait a minute.

were you ever on SNL? No. Yeah, I hosted it. No, you hosted it, but I mean, were you ever? No, it would have been the dream job. Would have been the dream job. But you tell me that because people will say after, you obviously gained stardom relatively early. Right. So that would maybe have been strange if you had then gone from that to become. So, but people

will say even after like, I don't know, as of like five years ago, they'd be like, oh, like, do you want to be on SNL? I'm like, that is interesting because most people start. They're not necessarily that known. They start on SNL and then they find work after that. But but I think that's how it's perceived as SNL is just like, yes, you know, I thought it was weird when Robert Downey Jr. went to be on SNL as a cast member, which a lot of people forget. I didn't know a lot of people forget.

because he'd done some movies. Oh, interesting. Anthony Michael Hall. Oh, right. And Downey were on SNL as cast members. After being in stuff. After Pretty in Pink, after The Breakfast Club, Anthony Michael Hall. Well, that's... That's exactly... Mind you, not during... This was like the...

two-year period where Lauren took a hiatus. You know, the thing about Downey on the show is, you know, once you're a star, you don't really return to television. You know, once the screens get bigger, it's hard to go...

In my opinion. Never. You just answered the own question of... Or your question of why I didn't get cast on SNL. You can do celebrity impressions. I can see right now. I can't. I'm hopeless. Now, listen. I don't think that would completely eliminate someone's job prospects on SNL. But there was a combination of... I don't know. I couldn't do...

When I auditioned, I think I had to do three celebrity impressions. I had to do three original characters, and I guess that was it. And my characters were fine. Like, I don't know. I guess they were fine. But then my celebrity impressions were, it's very clear I couldn't do that. Wait, it's three celebrity characters and three original characters. Yeah. Oh, my God. This is a great game. I'm going to work on this. Work on it.

I mean, it is. And you're doing it. The celebrity thing is a no-brainer. The celebrity thing is a no-brainer. That I got in space. For you? Yeah, I could pop off three right now. But the original characters, to me— What are you talking— The original characters you could do yesterday. I mean, what? That part's easy. No. To come up with the church lady or Wayne from Wayne's World or, you know, Mango.

I haven't talked about Mango in years. Mango reminded us of our dear grandma. She went, Mango. Oh my God. See, that is what I don't under, and I would love. Now my husband, his name is Michael Komen. He wrote on SNL for like three years, four years. But I only went to one show the whole time he was writing there. And so I've only been, I think I've only been to one taping. It was the show that, um,

Steve Carell hosted, and they had office members in the audience. Oh, wow. So that was fun. That's cool. But I've only ever been to one. So everything I know about SNL is mostly from Michael's, so it's like secondhand. But that, and like, several people have made documentaries, I guess, about it. But like coming up with those characters feels...

Isn't it just like sort of mysterious how that happens? Yeah, and yes. And then like I didn't realize because, you know, Farley and I were friends and we did Tommy Boy together. And he broke out on SNL with two things, with doing the Chippendales dance with Swayze, but also doing the motivational speaker who lives down by the river. What I didn't realize was that...

he had that character that character was a character he had in his pocket from Second City oh yeah so you come yeah you come with those most people I think come with you know I know that kills killed in Second City for you know months and years whatever yep

I had done Upright Citizens Brigade, which of course Amy Poehler founded. And that's how, so we did like a character showcase. But I feel like that's at a different, like the Second City shows, I feel they did for months and months and years. And those characters are really honed. So these were different. But that's interesting. If you have those characters that pop on a national scale on SNL,

And you've already like, you've brought them with you from the Groundlings or Second City or whatever it is. I mean, it is. And also, it's just like, why would, for example, Mango, why would that resonate with the general public? It's so fascinating. Who knows? Yeah. Tell me. Oh, by the way, you know who I got to direct season two of my show Unstable? Dean Holland. Oh, my gosh. Dean Holland. Yeah.

Dean Holland, legend. Dean Holland is, I think, one of the greatest comedy directors of the style that we love. Dean directed almost all of The Offices. Uh-huh. Right? It was started as an editor. Oh, yeah. And then directed almost all Parks and Rec. And now he's going to do season two of my show, Unstable. Congratulations. He's the best. So by the time I was there, because I came on season five of The Office.

So it may have been, he may have been more season, first season, first four season heavy. No, he did, by the way. But yeah. Because he was already working for us at Parks and Rec. But you, that's what happened. Because by the time I came on, like Mike and they- Did you work with, did you work with James Spader? Yes. Oh my God. Okay, so there's an example. There's an example. We found it. There, we finally landed on it. See, this is, by the way, this is professional podcasting. You start with a theme. Mm-hmm. You-

Go way away from the theme, but then you end with the same theme. And that's what we're doing. This is someone who's not necessarily quote unquote funny, who is hilarious in the right way. I'm like actually thrilled because I knew there was someone in my head that we were both thinking of. Maybe that is the perfect example. I've never, well, that's not true. There have been a lot of people who have made me laugh hard. Him on The Office is,

He was so funny. He was Robert California. Greatest name ever. Ever. And he was so serious. And he was so funny. Robert California. And like, that character was insane and he was so great at playing it. And I wonder how much of it was Mike Schur and the gang writing it and how much of it was, because it's deranged. It's actually a really different, it's a really different,

flavor from anything that had ever been on The Office before. And I don't know what the... Look, I don't know how the audience received him. I don't know. I don't know. But he was so different from anything that had been on. And I just... He hosted a... Like, Robert California hosted a pool party at his house, which was crazy. He told a ghost story, which was completely deranged. Like, he was off his rocker. I believe...

Was he just there a season? Look, you know I don't know any office facts. I think it was a season. It was a season, I think. Because then he was back in New York shooting a crime show. Yeah, he's so... He is so serious. Do you know that my husband... This is not a compliment or an insult to anyone involved. Michael used to... When Michael was younger, he looked like a younger James Spader. Really? And Michael was...

found himself, I think it was San Diego, walking by a Porsche dealership. And the salesman, this Porsche salesman, tried to sell him a Porsche, thinking the whole time, this is a bad story because I don't remember how it was clear that the guy thought he was selling a Porsche to James Spader. But isn't that funny? My husband isn't James Spader. He's not. He never was. And did he even buy the Porsche is what I want to know.

Exactly. And charge it to Spader. Yeah, that's what he should have done, you know, if he were a sharper guy. But he didn't. Anyway, I see the resemblance there. Yeah, James Spader, that's the perfect. And he's a James also. Like, he's never Jimmy. He's just James. No, Jimmy Spader. That's what you say when it's the 80s and you're going to meet him over at the Hard Rock Cafe. Yeah. Yeah, I'm meeting Jimmy Spader. Well, how do you feel about that?

Because when people, I'll be talking about someone who I haven't met, but obviously I know who they are. And then the person I'm talking to refers to them as, oh, Jimmy, or like, oh, Kimmy, or whatever. Okay, you've touched a nerve. There are two things I hate. Yeah.

One is the phony baloney shortened nickname to imply that somebody knows somebody better than you do. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing, which is even worse for me, are actors who shorten the titles of the projects that they're in. So if you were saying, you know, when I was working on Kimmy,

Yeah. Which is, by the way, that I can kind of, that's okay. That's okay. That's okay. Like, Tom Cruise used to, like, talk about a movie he did called All the Right Moves, going, yeah, you know, when we were in Pittsburgh making moves, and I just couldn't, I just, it used to drive me insane. No, I'm so, you've just won over, you hadn't already won over my heart. You just did. I'm kidding. You always have. But you just cemented it because you,

That it's something that's like you can't just say the name. Just say the name. Just say the name. And also, it's like it doesn't take any more effort, really, to say all the right moves. And he still does it. And listen, make me a music. I love, I love Tom Cruise. I love him. We're brothers. We came up together. He makes movies that I want to go see. Yeah. He gives 100%, but he needs...

Just, just say mission impossible and not, you know, we were in Prague making mission and like, we know it's mission. You can say the. It's like, we know what you're referring to because we all know mission impossible, but you just, you can say you just. You know, when I jumped on the Porsche to try to get it from going into Lake Michigan back when I was making risky, um,

Why is it? Because is it implying that we, oh, well, of course we know what it is. I think they're, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it, there's kind of, it's like, it's so famous. Yeah. That he can't be

that someone can't be bothered to exert themselves to say the extra word. Why should they? It's so famous. You know what I'm talking about. You know, when Martin Sheen and I were making Wing with Aaron Sorkin, this is bad. It makes no sense. Wing. Like, it doesn't... It's like...

Now we're getting totally obscure, but I like to go to like, what would be the worst iteration? Oh, yeah. Of cutting, yeah. The title. I also like, yeah, to cut, to use the third, just the third word of the show or movie, whatever. Or how about if it's a one. No, no, no, I have to connect the dots. What if it's a, the one I always wanted Tom to do is he made a movie called Cocktail. I wanted him to start talking about how hard cock was. I wanted.

Okay. I was re-watching Cock the other day. The thing about Cock, it's one of the first movies, and this is true, it's one of the first movies where women started dressing up to go to the movie like they were on a date. True. That's, listen,

I share, I don't know Tom Cruise. Cock was big. Cock was huge. You forget how big Cock was. It's easy to forget. When it came out. Cock was huge. Huge. And it was huge. And the thing is, when I was re-watching Cock, when I was re-experiencing Cock,

Do you know that at the beginning, the bar— But you like Cock, right? I like Cock. Okay. Because some people are ambivalent about it. They're like, is it comedy? Because it gets kind of serious. So not everybody likes Cock as much as you think they would. Is that true? Can I ask a stupid question? Sure. Who directed Cock? Roger Donaldson. Brian Brown is the co-star. Okay. I didn't know that either. Yes. I only knew Cruise.

Emily Newt, tough. What are we just going to talk? Tough. The bar that they're first tending in Cock is a TGI Friday's. No, it's not. Yeah, it is.

On Dean Holland's IMDb page. Because I was like, wait, what? I said, Michael, is that a TGI Friday? Because they had like, I think they just had the sign. They graduate from there. They're not always there, but that's where they like hone the craft of bartending. You just can't make, you just can't. I mean, listen, in the 80s, every movie was

He, the star, struggles to become the best at fill in the blank and then succeeds. Hockey player, wrestler. By the time the 80s were done, it worked its way down to bartender. Yeah, I know. And the other thing that was great about Cock is the ad slogan.

Do you remember it? It's the best ever. You ready for this? The ad slogan for the movie? Yeah, for cock, yeah. No, no, no. You got to tell me. It's a picture of Tom. I think he might be in a mock turtleneck. I don't know. Sure. Holding up a cock tail like that he's shaking. And it says, when he pours, he rains. Oh, I missed that.

That is so stupid. When he pours, he rains. And obviously rain as in he's the king. So I want to know, I'm desperate to know, of course they spelled it R-E-I-G-N-S. Yes, of course. But do you know what I want to tell you? Is that is giving the general public so much credit that they'll get it?

I fear that a tagline like that or whatever you call it, a campaign, I don't know if it would work today. They'd be like, they misspelled rain. They misspelled rain. Or it pours and rains. What? Like, would they make the connection? I don't know. Look, I hope that we would all understand the joke. I don't think. But I don't have. That was a very highfalutin joke.

Yeah. For a sort of. When he pours. He rains. He rains. I mean, the fact that we had come to a point where he had to become the best cocktail maker. It was like no more Rocky. No. When was the first? The first Rocky was before cocktail. Yeah. Oh, wait. First Rocky was 76. 1976. Yeah.

Look at me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course it was. I'm the one who asked. Yeah, 76. I remember it really well. See, that would have been one of my Lorne Michaels auditions. You would have had no shortage of impressions. No, no, no. For sure. I could do those. Who are your, can I ask, who are your faves? Or you can just do them? And is it something you practice? I mean, my favorite, I hesitate because it's such a cliche and everybody can do them.

But I know him well enough to find nuances that other people don't do. And that's Arnold Schwarzenegger, who I just had on the show. And he was amazing. He was like, it's the things. It's not the Hans and Franz version of Arnold. Do you know what I mean? But it's like the things that like he'll say, like, I went to watch the tennis at the U.S. Open. O-P-E-L? Open. Open. Yeah. Open. Open.

You know, it was there. I just come from Drek and I went to the open. Now, why? Well, look. Drek. I don't speak other language as well, but I do wonder why after living in America for so long, he doesn't say open. But I don't know. I don't know. I don't know him. You know, and there was the screen had all the videos on it and the videos. It's so good. Can I ask another stupid question? How do you know him so well?

You said you know him very well. Our kids are all the same age. And we, you know, you meet through the kids and like we've just, and then I did a lot of work for him when he was governor. Yeah. And Maria, Cheryl and I are godfather to Catherine, who then marries Chris Pratt. Go figure. Right. Yeah.

Now, that's crazy. It's really crazy. It's not that crazy, but it is quite crazy. I know. It's so great. I mean, who would have thought? I mean, it was like, wait. Yeah. I was like, my boy, Chris? Get out of here. All of your family collected? Yeah. Oh, that's lovely. It was very, very sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Pratt, he's on the Pucks and Rick. So insane. I hope everybody who's listening to this is going to take a moment and go to Netflix and look at Cock.

And either confirm or disprove my allegation. You're going to be like, you know what? I come away from this liking cock or I don't. And you can watch Mission. You can watch Risky. You can watch Moves. Yeah, Moves. You can watch Sky. You could go to Sky. You could go to Van. You could go to... Jer? Wide. The movie made with Kubrick, Wide. Wide.

You know what always I love is, I'm going to do the same movie, returning to Guire. Wire? Oh, yeah, Guire. When I was making Guire. Guire. It's like harder to say, by the way, than Jerry. When I was making Jerry. Guire. But there are some. Jerry Seinfeld? There's some, and then you've got to look at your own work and go, like the one that would be perfect, actually, would be when Ally Sheedy and I were over in England making blues. Yeah.

of Roxford Blues. Like that kind of actually... No, I have to ask. Do you ever refer to it? Because I hear it referred to this all the time as parks. You know what? It is true. People do call it parks. They do. They do. You know what? They do. It's in the, you know, zeitgeist. It's when you say, oh, they were on parks. Like I do feel like a waitress. That doesn't feel... Yeah, that doesn't feel weird to me for some reason. I don't know why that is. Because I think it is so...

Oh, we loved you on Parks. I just think people would say that. You know what it is? The difference is the people are saying it. It's not Amy Poehler going, you know, when I first met Aziz on Parks, we were...

You know, that famous show I did. Right. Surely you're familiar with it. Yes. You're like, well, actually, that's assuming some stuff, but okay. And listen, listen. Of course the person is familiar with it, but still. When Vivian Leigh finally got cast in Wind, I remember it was international news. I really want to just...

I like, I was in the movie Bridesmaids. I like doing something that's already one word. Bri. I was in Bri. I really love Bri. Bri. So insane. Ms. Kemper, what, tell me what, in your new podcast. Yeah. It's Things People Love, isn't that right? Things People Love. Yeah. You know what we love? Shortening movie titles. We love shortening.

Okay, listen, you're a busy man and you won't have time. If ever you have a spare moment and want to come on our podcast, all you should talk about is shortening your time. Can I, can I, will you let me come on or does it have to be something like, like, like super emotional? Like I love saving animals, which I do. It's not like that, right? I can come on and be stupid.

I hope that it's something very stupid because that's the whole, our idea was like, you get someone, you know, you get a famous athlete on to talk about how they like, you know, hot dogs or whatever. I mean, something that doesn't necessarily. Yeah. So I really hope that that does happen because the stupider, I think, the better. Yeah.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel. ♪

It is hard to come up with a title for a show, by the way. Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. Listen, I love working on that show. That is a hard name to say. But that's definitely one you're going to be saying, Kimmy. Have you seen Kimmy? You know what? I think you would say Kimmy Schmidt because at least you're saying...

Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt is hard to say. It is. I think, maybe I have trouble speaking, but you don't find that hard to say? It's not like disastrous. It's hard to say. It's hard. Because as you might recall, there is a movie called Unbreakable. Yes, when she rains, she pours. I like that. When she rains, she pours. It's about like an incontinent queen. Exactly.

when she reigns, oh, she, oh, she's just stupid. All right. This has gone completely off the fucking rails. I apologize. And I love it. And this is why we're here. This is what it's all about, people. This was, this was amazing. Um, Ms. Kemper, I'm going to think of, um, a list of famous, um, you know, when Jack Nicholson won, you know, when Jack won the Oscar for, for Nest. Um,

And the person is just like, what is that? The cuckoo. Okay, what is the movie? And they're just like sweating trying to think of the movie because the person just refuses to say. Also, how does Lorne Michaels know everything? Is he ever wrong? My impression of him is that he knows everything. His wisdom is infinite and he's never wrong. This is the last thing I'll say. I've given a lot of like go to, go to, um,

YouTube. We did Joni Mitchell earlier in the show. We did, which I'm going to go to. Yeah. Conan and Bill Hader talking about Lorne Michaels where Bill Hader, you know this bit? No, no, no, no, no. Tell me. Where

where Fred Armisen, a lot of name dropping going on here. People just slow down. Let's just get with it. Fred Armisen, who is, by the way, in my show, Plugging Unstable, noticed that when Lorne knows so many people that it just puts him out when he drops their names that he rubs his eyes exhaustedly. And then Hater decided that Lorne should also be friends with famous serial killers. So it's a whole thing was like,

You know, Mercy and Halleck and I went to Kansas City to get BTK Killer out of solitary confinement. It's so demented. That is so funny. Because it is. It's exhausting. It's just exhausting when you know Mick and Paul McCartney is coming. I don't know.

He's exhausted. Exhausted. There's so many famous people and serial murderers now. That is very funny. Maybe the new ad to this is when we shorten movie names, we need to be exhausted. Just the notion that like it's so famous.

You know, wing. Wing! When Sorkin started writing wing. Oh! It's on my face. Just like depleted. I thought of a good one. I loved Tom Hanks' turn in Ig. Ig. It's just not even going to be big. It's just Ig. But it was so easy to say big, Ellie. Okay. You know, when Steven Spielberg was shooting Ryan on the beach in Normandy.

Right. This is insane. It's just, I mean, it is. But it also. Wait, then I'll leave us with this one. Yeah. You know, Stephen always felt that list was his greatest. Okay. Is that all right? Oh, oh yeah. Now, why didn't he say Schindler's? Okay. I don't know why he didn't say. Okay. He's talking about Schindler's list. This is the longest bit we have ruined. People have turned off this podcast. We've ruined this bit.

People have decided they never want to watch a movie again for fear we might talk about it one day and shorten the title. And they don't want to listen to your podcast or mine now because this has gone on for so long. No, they're turning off all podcasts. This has gone on for so long. They're only going to listen to The Daily, The New York Times. Where they do not do this because they're much more highfalutin. Where they do give the news. The news.

All right, darling. Thank you very much. I'm going to go laugh and just laugh at myself today coming up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that makes the most sense. And then I thank you very much for having me on your show. I'm a big fan of yours, so thanks. And vice versa. Bye.

Well, Ellie and I beat that comedy bit into the ground. There's no two ways about it. I'm going to have to talk to the team about whether we shorten it. I trust you guys enough to know I'm not shortening it. I'm not shortening it. It's going to play in its natural length. I mean, people might be offended hearing me talk about cock, but what are you going to do?

I really liked the movie. Oh, God. Thanks for listening, you guys. Thanks for putting up with me. What's that? Oh, it's the lowdown line. Hello. You've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hey Rob, this is Derek from St Augustine and my girlfriend and I always listen to your podcast and when you talk about your body's work, we never hear you talk about illegally yours.

Wondering why. I mean, mind you, it's not your finest work. It was filmed in St. Augustine and we appreciate it. Thanks so much. Love the show. Bye. When you said you were from St. Augustine at the beginning of your call, I was like, oh, we got to talk about Illegally Yours. Well, you kind of said it. It was not my finest work, but I loved shooting in St. Augustine. We shot all over there, shooting at the Fort.

My God, that was amazing. I had to jump into the moat. Yeah, so that was the great Peter Bogdanovich directed it, who passed away, I believe, nine months ago, six months ago. Peter Bogdanovich directed The Last Picture Show, What's Up, Doc, and Paper Moon, three perfect movies in a row, and was one of the early 70s auteurs, and then he kind of famously lost his way. And

was banished into director's jail and then came back with a movie called Mask that Cher was nominated for an Oscar for. I auditioned for that movie. I didn't get it. But Peter's next movie was Illegally Yours, and he remembered me and wanted to work with me. And he was back. He was, you know, back to being Peter Bogdanovich. But on this movie, you know, I think...

he kind of lost his way a little bit. And I, I, it was a good lesson for me because I was too young to, to stand up for myself and kind of go, I don't know if this is a really good idea. You know, I was like, this is Peter McDonavich. I mean, who am I to argue with the guy that made three of the best movies of all time? I'm not blaming Peter totally for it. Cause it, it film is so collaborative. There, there are so many ways to make a film grade in so many ways to make a film bad, but, uh, I have great memories of,

of working with Peter in spite of the fact that, that, that it wasn't his best effort. He was so charming. He was so, um, educated me so much on, on film history is one of the great film historians and St. Augustine. Uh, it was, I will remember this. It was the coldest I've ever been on a movie set. St. Augustine, Florida, February was as cold as I have ever been, probably because I was spending so much time jumping into the moat of the

of the ancient fort there. But yeah, shout out to Illegally Yours. Thank you always for putting up with me and Ellie, although she's much more palatable than I am. And I will see you next week. Come back here to Literally. You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced by me, Nick Liao, with help from associate producer, Sarah Begar, research by Alyssa Grawl, editing by Jerron Ferguson, engineering and mixing by Rich Garcia.

Our executive producers are Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself for Team Coco, and Colin Anderson for Stitcher. Booking by Deirdre Dodd, music by Devin Bryant. Special thanks to Hidden City Studios. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on Literally with Rob Lowe.

All set for your flight? Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T-Mobile, headphones. Wait, T-Mobile? You bet. Free in-flight Wi-Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T-Mobile. Same goes for my water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. Okay, I'm going to leave you to it. Find out how you can experience travel better at T-Mobile.com slash travel.

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