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It's the Jan, Jan, Jan, Jan Arden podcast. Jan, Jan, Jan, Jan Arden podcast. I'm here with Caitlin and Adam and we're talking about... You know, I used to... Back before COVID, you guys aren't going to believe this, but I was a singer-songwriter. Yeah. No way. No, you probably don't remember. Yeah, it was... When did I last work? It was early 2020. Yeah.
Anyway, it's not even worth talking about. It was a long time ago. And you know what? You got to let go of things. You got to embrace the new and move forward.
So, Caitlin, right out of the box, Caitlin is still pregnant. And what does your app tell you this week of what your unborn, the size of your unborn child? Because Caitlin has an app. She's been a Care Bear, a lunch kit. No, that's not right. Yeah, Lunchbox was one day from a different app. And then I think this week it's a pineapple, which is too spiky for me. Oh, why are they giving you such weird information?
Like things that you cannot fathom passing through your female canal. Can we get, that's a nice thing to say, right? Female canal. I'll take female canal. Why not? Yeah. Female canoe is more Canadian. I think it's, I think it's that this week and it's just, they're, they try to like, they're trying to scare you.
Well, they're trying to give you an idea of like height, but I just wish that they chose like things that were more spherical in nature. I've said that before. It's like this week is a pool cue. Like it just doesn't know. I'm going to make up my own app. Adam and I could do a better job. Here's one. How about a head of lettuce or, you know, like a head of romaine, something soft and leafy, something.
Something like, I mean, and the other, I mean, ultimately I think what it is really, and this was last week, but they were like, think of it in terms of like, it's a, you know, a big, like, it's like the size of a bag of flour, but the consistency of like jelly, like it's like, it's, it's the baby's more bendy and soft and he hasn't got all of his, his head still soft. His little shoulders are still soft. So he's squishy, but they're trying to give you an idea of length, but I'm like, can we pick more squishy things? Yeah.
That would be my request to these baby app developers. Absolutely. It's like, there's, there's so many great stress toys that they, they give you now those balls that you can squeeze or, and the jelly just comes out or those little dolls where you squeeze them and their eyeballs pop out. That seems like a more legit idea of what could happen to your child. I don't want to like freak you out at all, but when I was born, and this is a long time ago, well over half a century ago, um,
My mother, and this is very well documented in a, in a, in a autobiography that I wrote in 2013, my mom was saying, let me die. Let me die. And she said, I didn't want you to die, but I wanted to die. And it was March. It was a snowstorm in Calgary. They had finally called the doctor after two days of mom being in labor to come and get me. I was breech. So I was whipped around. But anyway, she said, your head is,
Was so pointed we had to have a hat on you for a year. So apparently I looked like, you know, one of the coneheads from Saturday Night Live.
Oh my gosh. Well, the good thing is, so I have my 36 week ultrasound next week. And that is where they really distinctly tell you how big the baby is, the position that he's in. And if he's briefed, then they just plan for a C-section. See you later. And so they kind of deal with all that. And I will say, I cannot give enough credit to the staff at the hospital in Toronto here called Mount Sinai, where I'm planning to give birth at because
they are just so, they reassure you about everything and really make you feel like, because I went in with so many concerns and fears. I had an actual phobia of getting pregnant and giving birth. Like I, I, I, a confirmed one. And so I've been like,
trying to process all this information. And they just do such a good job of telling you to like, take everything in the moment day by day. Do not try to come up with your birth plan and just know that like my OB said, I've delivered, she said, I've delivered 10 babies in one day and our labor and delivery nurses, like they are geniuses. And this is a supernatural part of life and you can do it. A very wise woman said to me,
Your body knows what to do. Your body does what to do. And I think you, it's almost like strapping into a roller coaster, Caitlin, get on your ride. You're, you're tall enough to ride this ride. Cause you, you, so you pass that.
And Adam, were you there when your wife gave birth? Were you in the room with her? Right beside her both times. Yes. Now is your husband because of COVID is your husband allowed in Caitlin? Yeah. So he's my one support person. Like if I wanted a doula. Awesome. Yeah. If I wanted a doula, which I thought about, I couldn't bring that person. I would have had to swap them out for my husband, Kyle. So I thought, yeah, I'll let him come. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you're going to do great. And I'm going to phone these app people. I originally, you know, my initial thought was to have them sponsor our podcast, our show, but I'm just, you know, the pineapple did me in like it's, it's, it doesn't matter what end comes out first. It's just not a good idea. No. So feel good story of the day. People have not changed that much in thousands and thousands of years. I feel like
Ever since families kind of started hooking up and men and women or women and women or men and men started having kids and creating these families, they created these homes. You know, they built themselves houses out of whatever.
Archaeologists have just discovered a fantastical looking house in Turkey. I want to go to Turkey so bad, you guys. Like Turkey, to me, it is like the cradle of all of it. There's so much interesting archaeology there that's older than Italy. It's older than Greece. Like Turkey is the bomb. Anyway, there's a house in Turkey that they found decorated with
wall paintings and terracotta. They've got terracotta tiles on the floor. Anyway, what they've used to decorate the walls, like into the wet clay, is puppy paw prints, which breaks my heart into a billion pieces. And they think also little chicken feet pressed into...
the walls and the archaeologists are basically saying that these were very treasured animals to them. Obviously the chickens, they got eggs or, you know, a little bit of protein or whatever they're doing, but I just, their whole walls are covered with these. So I'm picturing them having their puppy that day, 1500 years ago, you know, and speaking whatever they are to each other going, he's getting worn out. Like give him a break, his little feet, you know, into the clay. So they were very proud of their, their animals that they had. Yeah.
It's like the original wallpaper when you think about it. And I just love the notion of like, even back then people wanted to like decorate their homes and make them their own. And they thought, how can we do this? Well, the OG wallpaper apparently is pressing your beloved pets hands and feet into your clay walls. That's so cute.
Well, anyway, I, it's either that, I mean, there's, sorry about the dog. There's your beloved pet. And I'm going to take her and you're going to go into that snow bank. I mean it.
She sees there's a squirrel right outside the window taunting her. Oh, those squirrels. Okay, we're just going to walk over. We're going to stay calm. I don't want any violence on our podcast. Let's just let her out. She always does. Anyway, there was another archaeologist that was kind of disagreeing with the guy that had made these foundings saying that they were purposely done. She thinks that, you know, like most pets that are, you know, naughty,
they walked across the floor or, and I'm thinking, no, how can they walk across a wall? Yeah. No. Anyway, I am. So let us have this archaeologist. Let us have this story. Well, I just, as you know, one of my, my dream jobs is to go on a dig somewhere. So if there's anybody out there listening and,
When COVID is over, I don't need to be paid. I've got my own rubber boots. I've got knee pads from baseball from the 80s. And I'm ready. I'm ready to do whatever you need to do. Okay, this is a very, very rapid swap of topic here. Love it. I want to know if you guys believe in God.
I know. I was laying in bed last night and I'm like, these are things that I want to know about Caitlin and Adam because as much as we've been talking for like over a year, I don't know anything about your religious leaning. So Adam, do you believe in God? In a word? Yes, I do. Okay. I'm not a religious guy. I am not religious. I was waiting for this. No, no, I want to, I knew you were, I know you're Jewish and that's why I just, I wanted your take on that. I'm a traditional Jew.
I like traditions and all that stuff, but I'm not a religious observant Jew. Do you do Passover and Seder and Hanukkah? Yes. And I know where to get all the good bagels in the city. That's about my level of commitment. I know where the good delis are. Are you more Jewish or less Jewish than your parents? Yes.
I'd say we're about the same. And how about your parents? Are they less Jewish than their parents? Like your grandparents, were they super Jewish? They obviously came from the old country. I think a little bit more. Yeah, I think a little bit more. I'd say that I'm about the exact same as my parents.
Yeah, I would say so. My little brother married a Jewish girl, his first marriage, and he called himself Jewish light. I don't know what that means. He said once to me, he says, well, you know, since I've married into the family, I am getting better deals on jewelry. Like, I find that a bit offensive. Okay. I think the term is Jew-ish. Jew-ish. Okay. Jew-ish. So, Caitlin...
Any kind of religious leanings? I mean, you're about to have a child. I would wonder if that is...
kind of exaggerated your idea of God or creation as? No. Okay. Just fill me in. Tell me what is it? Are you completely agnostic? Are you? Yeah, I'm agnostic. Meaning that I'm not going to pretend to know one way or another. Like I'm not going to, I'm not going to, like, I don't, I don't, I'm not going to pretend like there is no chance there. Like, I can't say that. But you know, I, I don't know. And,
And I'd like to say that I won't be surprised either way. Plus there's like, I mean, when you die, it's not, you're going to be like, Hmm, that's what I figured. Yeah. Like if I, if like in the moments before, you know, you die and I forget if this is a Ricky Gervais bit or not, but it feels like it might be to me that, you know, you either realize right before you go that you're like, Oh, that was it. Cool. All right. That's kind of what I thought. Or you get up there and there's a person in sandals and a robe and they're like, so I
You weren't sure about me. And I want to make sure that I can say, yeah, but I didn't actively not believe in you. So that's got to count for something. Please don't send me to limbo or something. No, no, it counts for something. And we're going to talk more about it when we come back. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast. Welcome back or just welcome. If you're just joining us right now, it's Jan Arden podcast.
I'm here with Adam and Caitlin, and I've just asked them, you know, that question that we all dread being asked, and do you believe in God? And Caitlin is, she's like six weeks away from having a child? Five? Six? Yep, six.
Um, first child, Caitlin is in her thirties. And, uh, I just was kind of wondering, gosh, does it, when you're like, you're making a person with your body. Yes. Your husband helped out. That's the fun part, but it, I cannot get my head around because I never had children. Don't we've talked about this many times in the show, but I would think that the idea of creation and making something that
Like with fingers and toes and little nails and hairs and little teeny individual eyelashes. And like, to me, it truly is a miracle. And maybe I'm just being really overly sentimental because we've been in our houses being reflective for 11 months, but I just, I'm so excited for you.
Yeah. But I, I believe in God. I know no one was going to ask me. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is, but I just feel, you know, being an artist that I have nothing to do with songwriting. I have nothing to do with, I mean, I want to take credit for them, but I'm literally sitting down and I will be just filled with awe that I'll get an idea for a song. Oh, wow.
And it's almost like a gift. I always picture like someone with a lightning bolt kind of poking it into my temple, trying to prompt me to write things down. And I think Keith Richards once said about writing and songwriting and God, or I'm not too sure what he was referring to, but he said, it's like turning the dial of a radio. And he says, you've got fuzz, fuzz, fuzz, and you're looking, looking, and then you land and
on this signal. And think about that, an invisible signal sent from some radio tower. I mean, there's radio signals that people have heard from thousands and thousands of miles away. So that's what makes me think about even the idea of prayer. And people kind of toss that idea aside going, praying, what does that do? But if a radio station can send out a bleep that can hit your transistor radio, that's not...
plugged into a wall and you can hear a song from a thousand miles away on a cold winter night. It is to me, it's so inspiring. I mean, am I, am I really going out there on a limb? No, I, I, I love the, I love the positive relationship that so many people have with religion and with God and what it means to them. I think it's great. My grandmother was like one of the most religious people I've ever known.
What does Middie believe in? But like, it is very, it's special and it's empowering and it gets people through really dark times. And I think that people's relationship with their faith is like, it's just great. I just, you lose me in the negativity and you lose me in the details. You lose me in the telling people how to live their lives.
Well, the punishment and reward part of it, Caitlin. And that was created by men. That was created by a group of individuals that, you know, the church collected taxes, but that the idea of punishment and reward, like...
I'm not going to get into the Bible because I know very little about it. I had a very religious period in my life when I was 16. My mom said I was impossible to be around because I was quoting Bible things. I was telling people how to live their lives, that they were all going to go to hell. She said it only lasted six weeks, thank God, but you just wandered around with that Gideon's Bible. Ha ha.
And, but it is, it is the idea of like, if you don't do this, you will not get into heaven. You will get punished. The whole idea of sin and, and yeah, there's bad things that people do, but there's a lot of good things that people do too. So it can't be used as a tool to threaten people.
Well, yeah, and I think that, like, on top of everything else, when you are pregnant and you're giving birth, you're like, wait a minute, I'm supposed to think that this, like, perfect little thing that's brand new to the world that I'm giving birth to is born with an original sin, according to some religions. Like, that's where you... That's the stuff where you lose me, but I do think that...
like the big picture stuff um is special to people something something that connects us all together on planet earth something that you know a greater purpose charity serving other people i love that i love that i love that aspect of any any religion that subscribes to it but the negativity and the way that it's used as a tool to collect money um and the greed and the stuff like that uh i
I stay away from it. And so that's kind of where the Bible always had caveats. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, like, yeah, you'll get you this, but you have to do this. I mean, there are so many stories that I think were more fable. Like, like I said, I can't even address the Bible. I know nothing about it. I don't want to offend anybody. I just wanted to ask that bigger question. So what do you think happens to you when you die, Adam?
Do you believe in the afterlife? And if these questions are freaking you out, you don't have to answer me. But I was having this conversation the other day with a friend. She goes, I'd love to hear what they thought about that. I wish you would ask them that. And I said, I will in the next podcast. I'll ask them.
I don't deal well with death at all. I can talk about it in this, but I don't deal well with death. It's a hard one for me. So I have to believe in my mind that there is something else after we pass. I have to believe it.
I don't know what it is, but I have to believe it. Well, I mean, the whole physics part of it, I had a pacemaker put in my body when I was 20 years old. And it's really hard to imagine that a small little electrical impulse is the difference between you being here and you're not being here. I had it for like 17 years. Long story. Anyway, but when I was 20, thinking about that little electrical impulse, I
We, our bodies are run by electricity. We don't think about that often because we're, you know, these fleshy big nubs of whatever, but we're run by electricity. You guys are running on electricity right now, your brain, everything. And electricity just changes forms. It never dissipates. It has to go somewhere. So I really truly believe in, in,
Just the human spirit going somewhere. I feel my parents around me more now. I'm getting to know my dad better now that he's gone than when he was here. Caitlin, afterlife thoughts?
I don't think it's like a place per se that you all go and hang out. But I do think that something else continues. Your energy is not just going to disappear completely. I'm a little more scientific than I am spiritual as a person. I love science a lot.
So I do think something has to happen to your energy. There's a whole lot of it. And I think that's why people account for, like you've said, Jan, you know, feeling your lost family members around you, why people have those supernatural experiences, why they still feel those connections after people pass away. I just think there's something there that I don't understand necessarily.
It's like a different plane of existence that I don't understand. But part of me has always viewed that, frankly, as a little more scientific than spiritual, if that makes sense. Like I feel like there's a scientific reason for it. It doesn't make it any less special, but I don't think it happens based on, you know, what form of God you pray to necessarily. I think it's kind of universal.
Very much so. Great cartoon, theologian and a scientist walking up the same mountain on different sides. They get to the top and they're like, hey, what are you doing here? Hey, what are you doing here? So I very much agree with you that you're listening to the Jan Arden podcast. We'll be right back with many, many more esoteric transcendental questions and queries.
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Welcome back. I swear to God in heaven, we are going to start a podcast of what happens in between the breaks of this podcast. Because it is a whole entire different thing. And then we all go, no, stop, stop. Let's record. So Caitlin has a movie to tell us about that has to deal with the afterlife, I would imagine.
And so what is it? Go tell me, tell me everything. It's the latest Pixar film and it's called soul. And every single person. Yes. Okay. So you saw it. Oh my God. I loved it so much. I love Pixar little known fact about me for my whole life. I kind of secretly, not so secretly wanted to work at Pixar and,
I think they are just geniuses. They do so much great stuff. And this movie is fantastic. It's probably my favorite movie of the year. And it deals entirely with the afterlife, the notion of having souls, the notion of purpose on earth. It is so great and magical. Comforting. Exactly. But real, they don't fluff over stuff. Like it deals with death, but it's like, they make it palatable. They make you not feel like it's dark and hopeless. And it's funny. Yeah.
So funny. It is S O U L just like the soul of a human being. And it is on Disney plus. And I know there's a lot of viewers out there going fine for you guys. You can do the eight 95 a month and whatever.
But when you think about some of these streaming services, let me just say, I don't know, have you taken your kids to a movie like in the last year and a half? It's 12 bucks a person. The popcorn is going to cost you more than the movie. You got to park your car. You got to get there. So if you're taking your two kids to a movie with you and your husband, you and your partner, it's going to be 100 bucks.
right? So to me, that's a whole damn year of Disney Plus. So anyway, just, just bear with us when we say things like that. Fine for you guys, but it is, I would, I would have, I would have signed up for Disney Plus just to see that movie. Absolutely. I just loved it. You're right, Caitlin. And, and I think it's very child-friendly. I think for a lot of parents that
When do kids start asking those questions, Adam? Like have your little girls, how old are they again? They're seven and nine.
So are you getting any questions about, is there a God? What happens to me when I die? Any of that stuff yet, you and your wife? Not really. No, my older one is a little more in touch with that, but not like, cause she knows, I think she understands death and she's lost great grandparents before. So I think she knows my younger one doesn't. She doesn't know. She's not there yet. Do you remember talking to your parents about it?
Not really. I think I've always avoided it, but I certainly remember losing my grandparents. I was when I was born, I had four grandparents and then my my grandparents on my dad's side died when I was very young, even like three years old. But I remember. And then my dad. Sorry, my mom's father died when I was I don't even think I was 10. I understood what death meant. So you were exposed to it anyway. Yeah.
But I was very lucky, I have to mention, I was very, very close with my grandma on my mom's side and she passed away when I was 26 and I was devastated 'cause we were so close. And like that one, that one in my entire family is the one that hit me the hardest 'cause we were so close.
No, I get that. But the thing with our culture, Caitlin, and I don't know how you feel about this, and it's much like what Adam is alluding to, and that is our inability to have discussions about death and dying. And I'll tell you what, it has been shoved up our gobs the last 10 months because of the extraordinary amount of death that's happened all over the planet. It
It has been accelerated. Obviously, we're dealing with a disease that's brought hundreds of thousands of more deaths into the fold of very unexpected deaths. So we're having to have a conversation. And I think even people that have their kids at home that are
seeing newscasts, they're seeing statistics and things like that. So there had to have been this conversation that has started this year in 2020 about death and dying. I just...
What are your thoughts about that? I think the focus on mortality and living around the constant fear of maybe getting sick makes people think about that a lot more. And little kids like my nieces and nephews will look around a room and be like, where's the virus? Because they have a hard time conceptualizing it. They think it's going to be like a physical thing. So I think that has made people talk a
lot more seriously about mortality I hope it makes people change some things for the better in terms of like long-term care how we treat our senior citizens you know for a culture that's so afraid of death we certainly cart our old people off to some pretty bad circumstances faster than we should especially here in Ontario our long-term care disasters just makes your head spin so I hope that people have talked about this a little more a little more freely a little more constructively like
their wishes, like what they would want. You know, like I've talked a little bit about that previously with my husband, not in a dark way, but just what I'm about, what I would like, you know, what my preference would be. And I don't think we talked a lot about death when I was growing up, but I do remember my dad was reading me the Bible before I would go to bed for a period of time. And like, he thought...
he thought that's what he should do because he was raised very Catholic and both my grandparents were no it's the sweetest it's so sweet but it gave me nightmares real oh and because the stories are dark and they deal with death a lot and it's just you know it was very different than your day-to-day life well imagine the world 2,000 years ago there was a lot going down
yeah, it was like, someone's yelling stuff out from the sky and they're carving it onto a stone and all these people are killing their own family members. Like it was just, it was nuts. So I, I mean, he had to stop reading it. Well, animal sacrifices. Oh, I was like,
Yeah, no. What was the story? We're going to get so many letters and so many phone calls about this. I know little fragments. Who was the guy that was told to sacrifice his son and then God said, no, I knew that you would do what I was going to tell you, but you don't know what. Yeah, Abraham. What the hell was that story? Listen, we can't talk about this. We're going to get worse. I know, because people are going to be like, hey.
Okay. In context, I'm just saying a story like that would have scared the, no pun intended, but the hell out of the kid. And it was like, I think it was like a children's, it was a children's like Bible, but it was still very like a children's Bible. I mean, it was like,
It was, but it freaked me out. And so, you know, he kind of took a break from it and it was just because it was one of those things you think you do. And I think what was more important to me was learning the like religious lessons that my grandparents lived by, which was mostly taking care of other people. My grandfather worked in social services, he worked in government and he was really dedicated to helping people who were less fortunate, people who had physical disabilities, um,
you know, they were very dedicated to like helping the poor, which is like, that's where my heart lies when it comes to religion. But yeah, the death stuff always just, I was like, oh, this freaks me out. Well, I still, I truly believe that in our culture,
There has to be a more healthy dialogue than what we're having. I'm very lucky that I had a mom and I talked about her so much, but she talked about death like it was a submarine sandwich. She just made it. It was part of a conversation when we were little,
And nothing to be afraid of. And why the heck would I be afraid of dying? She just was so cavalier and intrepid. Like my mom just gave me, and I think that's why I'm just so,
Okay. With just trying everything and falling on my butt and my mom and my dad was the antithesis of that. My dad spent his life as an alcoholic, so frightened of death and dying, so frightened of God. And here's, here's the kicker raised in a Mormon family. And I'm not saying anything about Mormons. I know some frigging awesome Mormons that are amazing, liberal, forward-thinking people. So please don't think I have any, whatever you believe in. I, I,
I'm behind you as long as it's good and decent and it's not, you know, killing goats on the top of a mountain. You, you have my, you have my support, but my, my dad, so I watched these two people that were in this partnership that were on opposite ends of the pool. And I really had to make choices growing up of like, who am I going to follow here? Who's whose boots am I going to put on? And my mom, um,
you know, in a lot of ways I followed her, but there's a lot of things that my dad passed on to me that I just, there's just no, I can't lie about that and say that it didn't affect my thinking because it did. So parents beware, you know, you really have to be mindful of how you instruct your kids and to give them a fair and balanced idea of, of, you know, they have to make their own decisions inevitably. Don't you guys agree? Yeah.
Absolutely. And I grew up very much that way, like decide for yourself, no pressure. You don't, you're not going to be some failure if you're not exactly who we are. But I do think that you, I would try actively as a soon to be parent, not to freak my kid out, like to,
try to do a little bit Jan, like what you said about what your mom did for you, which is make them feel resilient and not afraid of something that is coming for us all. Let's be real. And just don't, just don't bring it. Just don't bring dying up when, when there's, you know, 25, we're going to be right back. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast. Don't lose that thought Caitlin, because there's something else I want to pick your brain about. Oh my gosh. I know right now, if I could eat, if I could eat,
like a giant bag of caramel popcorn, I would eat it. Like I'm having the weirdest, weirdest food cravings in the world. And it's not just because we've been talking about the afterlife either. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but my food habits and where, what I've been eating and what time of day is so, can I say ass backwards? I think we're all right with that. I won't be. It's just Looney Tunes. Yeah. There's no schedule for anybody right now. That's why.
No, but I mean wanting spaghetti at 8.30 in the morning. Like I work out and I'm thinking, I think I'll make spaghetti. And you know what the difference is now? I'll make it for myself. Yeah, you can because you're home. That's what I mean. The schedules are all off. Who made up the breakfast foods? Like who said, like that's what I don't get either. Like the Europeans are way more forward. Like in Scandinavia, you should see their frigging breakfast. It's like so much more commonplace.
It's cooler. Like the, the bread, the breads and the, this anyway, it's just way cooler than what we do. Oatmeal cereal. Oh, that was great. I'm not a big cereal person. When I spent time a little bit of time in like Sweden and Copenhagen, I do really think they make a delicious breakfast. They know their way. Yeah. And I forget the name of it. And someone's going to tell me, I think of pronunciation is like sort of like s'more broad anyways in Copenhagen. It's like these open faced, uh,
Yes. And it's on that like really thick, dense bread and little shrimp shrimps on it with like a creamy sauce. Chocolate sprinkles. Yes, you can do them sweet or savory and they're so good. And then you go to places like Korea and Japan where their breakfast is always soup.
Yeah. It's big, giant bowls of soup with eggs floating around and all these vegetables and noodles. And I know I love that. Can Canada and America please work on breakfast? Can we just get her going? Like I'm just saying, and Adam, I cut you off. I knew you wanted to say something early on. Go. You were talking about popcorn. Yes. Have you ever had Garrett's in Chicago? No.
Garrett's in Chicago. Is that like a popcorn making? The Chicago mix. Oh, yes. Garrett's is a place in Chicago that sells popcorn and their caramel corn, Chicago.
Chicago mix, which is the cheese and caramel out of this world. And I'm not a popcorn person, but Garrett's is next level. Okay. Let me ask you this. Do they have that in the airport? Yes. They have. Okay. Yes, I have. I have had it many times. I've gone through there. It's a great place.
Tired, 11 o'clock at night, had delayed flights, and I've eaten Garrett's popcorn. In fact, I remember talking to a guy. I just didn't know what the name was on it, but they do have a cart that's down by where the Air Canada flights go out of. Yeah, I would highly recommend that if we ever get back into airports. Yeah.
That is outstanding. One thing I was going to say, we were talking about connectivity and how people, you know, talking about the afterlife and the idea of dying and how connected we are all. COVID, there's a lot of good things that are going to come out of this, I think, globally. Not the dying part. It's horrendous. It is gut-wrenching, heartbreaking for the frontline workers. I don't feel like we need to repeat how
Much our hearts go out to the people dealing with this that don't get to stay in their houses, that don't get to eat popcorn and just wait this out and be, you know, put off that we have to wear a mask when we go to the dry cleaners. Like, come on, people. COVID went around the globe in a matter of weeks. So when you talk about what happens in other countries, whether it's pollution, nuclear fallout, overfishing,
the misuse of water, we are connected like you would not believe. If a tiny little microscopic invisible virus can make its way around the globe, and I'm talking about the Seychelles Islands, I'm talking about Bali, you know, we're talking about Antarctica, where there's 40 people sitting up there in a scientific base at any given time, it made its way there.
So, and this is after extensive testing of people going on to that little, let's call it a pod. So anyway, just that's just a reminder to people of how connected we are. So no matter how far away you think problems are, or wars are, or poverty is, we are so connected. And I think that will be the takeaway for me for many, many, many years to come, probably my whole life,
as to how much we have in common with people we don't think we know, that we don't think we understand. They have families, children, homes, houses.
Every healthcare system has been taxed and every healthcare worker is dealing with the same issues, the same problems. So we're not dissimilar. We're the same. And it's a cool thing to keep in mind when you are in isolation, as a lot of people are, is that we're all kind of, you feel like you're alone and I'm experiencing this maybe more deeply or I'm having a worse day than anyone else today. But it's not like everyone's experiencing this together. And even when you don't feel connected to everybody else, you are, you just are.
Yeah. And that's what makes it, that's what makes it so, such a special time for humanity and such a kind of, for lack of better things to say, a come to Jesus moment where everybody, you know, people say that it's like, yeah, you have this, you have this reckoning, this conversation with yourself, right?
And you look at your fault lines, you look at the cracks in your life that you've always wanted to fix or jobs that you've wanted to change or friendships that you've wanted to mend. This has been a spectacular awakening for people. We've seen so much happen and we've certainly touched upon this.
the BIPOC Black Lives Matter movement, not a movement, but just the reckoning that we all have to face with everything that will hopefully continue to be a huge discussion as we go forward in our lives. Caitlin, you just touched on the care of our elderly. I don't think we can ever go back to
how we have run nursing care homes, long-term care homes, care for memory loss patients. Holy crap, COVID cracked that right open. Well, and here in Ontario, I mean, I'm sorry, but I'm calling it like it is. It's a disaster. Our long-term care is a disaster. For-profit long-term care is a disaster. It has to end. It's inhumane. And these are people who built our
are present. Like these are people who like, like they built our lives. They built our roads. Yeah. Everything. And we, and we cart them off into, you know, for-profit homes. And we're told by the people who run these homes that they're going to take the best
special care of your, they're not, they're not doing that. And they need to be held accountable. And the government of Ontario needs to be held accountable. Our minister of long-term care should resign. I cannot believe that the situation that we find ourselves in and to feel so helpless to read these stories all the time and to hear from people who have family members in long-term care and to have them not know if they're alive every day and the circumstances around their diet and their, their dehydration and the, uh,
I just, I can't, it overwhelms me. It just makes me feel so angry that like people are profiting off of our most vulnerable members of society. It takes me right off. So I do hope this changes because we have a really great team of doctors.
and long-term care advocates who wrote a letter this week. I think there were 300 of them that got together and they started really like getting into it on social media and using their voices. And I think that that hopefully will impact some really positive change. And you're right, Jan, it's sad that this happened the way that it has in COVID. It didn't need to happen this way, but as a result, I really do think that Ontarians are more aware of how poorly treated our senior citizens are. Well, I think the most important,
heartbreaking aspect of what you were just talking about is that, and I don't want to just say millennials, I'm going to kind of include all of us in there that we felt that within this epidemic, that this was an acceptable loss, that preexisting conditions. If I hear that effing one more time, Oh, but they had a preexisting condition. Listen, if you're walking on this planet, you have a preexisting condition. It's called being human. And I,
We don't know if we have aortic chambers that are explode. We don't know if we're 10 minutes away from diabetes. We don't know if we're walking around with cancer. People have got to stop that dialogue. And with the elderly, that that has been an acceptable loss. And that's been kind of a real Western opinion. I know even in places like Italy and France and Europe,
in Europe where, where elderly people are much more absorbed into their families. They're not stuffed into long-term care like we have here. Yeah. And I mean, it is. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, it feels like back in the day, it was this thing to kind of strive for when retirement homes first came out. It was like this, they were pitched as this beautiful oasis and this upper class thing to do, you know, is to have your family member be able to go to this wonderful retirement home. And some of the good ones are great. My grandmother received excellent, again, government supported long-term care in Prince Edward Island, the second home that she went to, not so much the first, but the
The privatization of long-term care here in Ontario has created a situation where you are profiting off of the most vulnerable and there is no oversight and they mistreat the people who work in these homes. They keep them at poverty wages. It's just a disgrace. And I hope that these doctors continue to blow the lid right off it, frankly.
They will. The images that we've seen of people looking through windows with their hands up against the panes of glass, looking in at their loved one that they haven't been able to see. I mean, it was bad enough when we could kind of oversee our parents and our grandparents and go in and check their rooms and check their hygiene and see if their bums had a rash on them. And like I'm saying this because I checked my mom all the time.
We have 60 seconds left, but what I want to say to people is to be positive. And I know you've heard it all before.
Patience is key with all of this. We are going to get there. I know it's frustrating with the rollout of these vaccines. We are in uncharted territory. And I think for us to just point fingers and blame everybody and the government is at a loss too. And we have to remember when you say the word government, you're dealing with a bunch of people, people that live in houses just like yours down the street, people that have kids, people that are, have been ill prepared for this.
And I think sometimes we're, we just think the government's supposed to have all these immediate answers and they don't. And that's why it's a democracy. We have to stand up, be heard, be diligent, look after each other and be kind. Yeah. We're still seeing masks down people's chins and their noses hanging out and, and people being ding dongs, but I'm telling you the majority people out there are, are damn good people. And I'm quite frankly, proud of, of,
Proud of all of us for, you know, doing the things that we're doing. Yeah. There's, there's lots of fault lines, but steady on. We're going to get there. Caitlin and Adam, thank you for being so open to answering these questions today. I think we're going to be drinking beer in some bar in, in, in space. And I'll, I can't wait to introduce you to my mom and dad. So, and I'll meet your grandparents. Anyway, for sure.
Steady on, everybody. We'll see you next time. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. Totally do. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.