We're Retiring the Word Retirement
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Hello, welcome to the Jan Arden podcast. You're probably wondering why do I sound the way that I sound right now? Well, it's because I'm a day older, more mature, and this is just how 62 sounds. It sounds much more calm. It sounds more controlled. Anyway, here I am, 62, feeling very confident, very mature, and ready for whatever happens.

This year holds for me. Should we sing? Welcome. I'm here today with Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke. No, hi guys. How you doing? Birthday voice jam is like a 1-900 number caller. Oh, thank you. Hello. Have you guys ever called those things? No. Have you ever? Like when I was a kid growing up in Springbank, the ads would come on where you literally...

It would be later at night and there'd be people coming on and they would give you the number. It was like women. I'd like to be your friend. And like I was so naive, you know, 11, 12, 13 years old. And I'm like, maybe I'd like to call them. You're deterring us from your birthday. I refuse. No, Sarah. Jay wanted to talk about hot singles in your area. Happy birthday. Thank you. It is. I'm not a huge birthday person, but I'm always grateful to be older. And I was just saying to my friend the other day, my friend, Teresa. Hi, Teresa.

That no matter what happens to me from this point in, if I die tomorrow, which I'm not really wanting to do that, but I am myself and I got to be myself. So whether that's sobriety or whether that's actually getting to be on the planet for six decades, that's

that I actually feel very authentic and very much in my own skin and very responsible for my actions. And speaking of which, I do want to make an apology because we got a couple of messages about our Kate Middleton comments. I feel bad. It was kind of disparaging. The whole basis of our comments was about

the photograph that was posted on Mother's Day that was clearly photoshopped. And then Kate came on and she said, my bad, I'm not, I'm an amateur photographer. And I did this, and we kind of hopped on the bandwagon to speak about it. And I think I said a disparaging thing about calories or, you know, something to do with how, you know, slim she is. And

Fast forward, what happened, Caitlin? She came on and told the world that she's very sick. Yeah, she's suffering from some type of cancer, I think. And they didn't disclose much more than that. Obviously, she went in for abdominal surgery, which was serious. And then when the time that I think everyone figured was

would pass for you to take away uh you know step out of the public eye and she still wasn't back in the public eye then all the conversation started and so i do think that because that image was photoshopped and then they made her take ownership for it when there's i still believe there's no way she edited that herself like there's no way that kate was like oh i'm an amateur who's got the time

I just feel like so that, you know, the palace's kind of bungled PR response is what fueled so much of this fervor because then it became, well, where is she? Is she okay? Conspiracy theories and all of that stuff. For sure. Now they're like, oh, Russia's involved. Russia has their bot farms out there spreading misinformation. So look, you know, I think nothing is more upsetting than the

that she is dealing with a serious health issue and has a young family and then was like, oh my God, I'm going to have to sit on this bench here and tell everyone to beat it. But it is...

at least a fulsome kind of response from her personally and directly. And I think that that hopefully will mean everyone goes, okay. Well, I apologize. I apologize personally to anyone that I offended. I didn't mean to be disparaging, but I certainly didn't need to make a comment about what a person eats, how much they eat, or their physical appearance. That was completely uncalled for, and I'm an asshole. And I think when you do make a mistake, just...

Say you made a mistake. I posted about it and said, can I issue an apology on behalf of not only myself, but the entire internet and all of social media? I saw that. Because I was like, oh, I think everyone. And then when I posted it, I had so many people DM going, oh my God, I know. I got so caught up in this. And I think I said the first time we talked about this, I was like, I just want to know...

that she's like, okay. Because the royal family, it's a weird existence, right? It's a weird existence and there's a lot of skeletons in the proverbial closets. And so I don't think anyone's relieved to hear that she's dealing with a serious health issue. But I think that it was like, okay, now at least this can go away. And then she will now, I would hope, be completely fine to deal with this in private. I do think there... I was interacting with a few people on Twitter who were like, well, now we're just going to be asking what kind of cancer she has and still prying. And I was like...

I think your average person is saying, okay, look, let's put this away. You know, the daily mirror mail, page six, whatever globe is probably going to still do this for clicks. It's not trending the same way. Well, you said something interesting, Caitlin. I mean, I don't know how much I agreed with it or didn't agree with it, but I heard you loud and clear. And the basic gist was these people are paid millions and millions and millions of dollars as being part of the monarchy. You spoke to

you know, they owe it to us to be transparent somehow. That was sort of your feelings about, well, listen, this is, you knew what you were getting married into and. Well, it's more like this is the role. If you want to change the role, you can take the road of, you know, Harry and Meghan, who also though are still kind of in the public eye. So I don't know about that. But if you, you know, it's the same thing with celebrities, right? Like there is a way like Demi Moore and Bruce Willis left Hollywood for a long time, lived in Utah. Like there's a way to remove yourself from situations like this.

And not that it would be easy or preferable. She fell in love with who she fell in love with. But I think the palace owed it to her to give, again, a more fulsome, slightly transparent. No one has to know what she's dealing with. But to say, hey, she went in for abdominal surgery. She's having some other health issues. And we'd appreciate some privacy at this time. But that wasn't it. It was like, everything's fine. Here's a weird Photoshop.

And then that fuels the conspiracy theories. So I see how it happened. Like I, I totally, and this is the world we're living in. And, and then they posted that they was a job. It was a job posting for a communication specialist within the palace. I,

I was like, well, who got fired? Because like someone needs to wear this one. Was it a legitimate job posting? It was. Oh, it wasn't. I thought you were kind of making a joke, but they were looking for someone. No, no, there was. There was a legitimate job posting. They were like, oh, we need someone to help. Because like to have Kate, again, issue a statement from her own letterhead saying like essentially like graphic design is my passion. That's why I released this photo. It was like, that's not true. So that made everyone go, what are they hiding? Like this can't be the case. So...

Again, she hopefully now gets to deal with this in private. Well, she does have kids and, you know, the internet. And there's this other thing that's happening in Florida. DeSantis announced that come January 1st, 2025, they are not allowing children under the age of 14 to have any social media accounts. And the ones that they do have will be removed. Kids are just going to lie. They're going to lie. They're going to have their older friends sign them up. But then there was some kind of caveat about...

the parents if the parents are allowing them to have social media accounts. And then they're being very self-righteous. Kids need to be at school and not on their phones and

Unfortunately, technology is here. It's not going to go away. And if kids are anything like we were today, like 50 years ago for me, you will find a way around whatever those rules are. I would agree with that. I mean, in principle, if you could actually keep children off of social media until they were 14, that's a great idea. So what I wanted to talk to you guys about today is aging, like turning 62 is, well, let's put it this way. If it was 1830,

I would be a grandmother for sure, possibly even a great-grandmother. My life expectancy, this would really be the cap off. I would be in the last few months of my life, maybe another year or two. People generally did not live very long, women in particular. And because of childbirth, the mortality rate was extremely high. But it just got me thinking of how

lucky I am to be living in 2024 with the food that's available to me. I mean, conceivably, if all goes well, I could live into my 90s. And I was thinking about how people...

are so reluctant to age. And I know that's kind of a prevalent topic. People talk about it a lot. There's a lot of stuff on social media of women having, you know, their accounts that are just filled with owning menopause and talking about menopause and talking about being in their 70s and 80s and their sexuality. I mean, it runs the gamut. And I'm just wondering why we are so reticent to embrace and celebrate menopause

Yeah, I would agree with that as someone who's guilty of like, I don't like the lines and stuff. But maybe you're right. Maybe it's because it's reminding me physically that I'm aging. Like maybe it's just a physical reminder every time I look in the mirror that I'm closer to death. Yeah.

Is that what it is? So tell me what you don't like, Caitlin. You look at your face and are you like looking for the lines? No, they just kind of like, they kind of pop up. They go from like, you can see photos where it's like they look softer and now they're more there and they're there every day. Whereas like one day you'd be like a bit dehydrated and you're like, oh, that line's coming in. And now it's just always there. And I definitely look more tired, especially since having a child and previously working mornings. Well, of course. You've been sick for three weeks too. I've been sick for like a day.

Like since Christmas. It's crazy. Okay, make that a year and a half. But anyway. It's just bizarre to see. Like I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's this physical representation when you look in the mirror of the fact that your time on this earth is...

diminishing. That's like how I feel. And also because you feel older, like you don't bounce back from things as quickly. Your joints hurt. Like I hurt my hip the other day because I've been running and I was like, oh, I just, it's just aging. Just my hip just hurts when I run now. That's so weird. It's about modifying how you do things. Yeah. Yeah. But it is amazing how we somehow are still living. And this has been going on for five, 6,000 years. When you, when you look at

even Egyptian culture, Roman culture, how women in particular fought so hard and did a lot of very bizarre things to remain young. I mean, for example, if you're looking at Queen Elizabeth I, I mean, she put lead on her face, lead, because she didn't like being older. So there was a white powder that... And they all did. Anyone sort of in the court in... I mean, I'm such a history buff, but when I was reading this, I'm going, what? And it deteriorated their skin so badly. It burnt their hair away. It...

This, this desire to remain young. And of course, in a situation like that, when you are in the monarchy or in a position of power, as you age, it's if you're perceived at all weak or frail or fragile, it's over. So, but I'm just the things that women have done historically. And even now,

And I'll use Madonna as an example. And please send your letters to Sarah Burke, 555-517-11555 Avenue. You know, she's, I think, 65 years old? Yeah. 65 is not old. Have either of you seen her on this tour, by the way? No, I haven't. I didn't get tickets. They say it is fantastic. People are saying the tour is fantastic. Yeah, she's been late a few times, but...

That she gets out there and does a three-hour show. I was going to say she's wearing a knee brace proudly with all her costumes. And I think that's fine. Why not? Like, if that's what it takes to dance, then go. She's out there dancing and doing... Oh, my God. I couldn't dance from here to my refrigerator. So, you know, just things that she's done and the vitriol she has faced, which has been really hard. I don't even read the comments. And I follow Madonna on the socials, on Instagram in particular. But it just...

It feels like someone who's so reluctant to embrace that part of her life. Like I don't find any grace in it. And maybe I'm just, I don't know her at all. I probably shouldn't even be commenting. But for me as a fellow woman, it's hard for me to watch that. It's been hard for me to watch Shania. Whatever you want to do or take, and I'm not talking about that. I'm a fan of whatever you need to do, but it's just that...

I want to be 28 on this stage. That's where you feel like it comes from. I do. I think it's this desire to be this eternal fountain of youth. And there's such a discomfort in watching it unfold because I think if these women were to just be themselves, and I will use an example so you can see the contrast and you can see what I'm talking about. Helen Mirren, Judi Dench, Juliette Binoche,

Kate Winslet. She's in a new series called The Regime, which is fantastic.

But she's really embracing this mature, aging regent. When you see the difference between women that are kind of owning it, mentoring other people, this is how we do it, girls. This is what we do. We own ourselves. We look after ourselves, but we just walk into this period of wisdom and grace and knowledge and being sage and being...

I mean, the antithesis to that is exactly, those are a couple of the examples that I've used. And it's really hard to watch it. And I don't know what it says to women in general. I feel like it's extremes. It's like anytime something becomes very extreme, then you sort of lose control.

You lose a little bit of yourself. You lose some of your familiarity. And that's when you see the comments pop up. You see fans like not recognizing that person. And I think that everyone gets lost in the extreme. Like you've got Kate Winslet's probably had some stuff done. She probably had Botox or she's had microneedling or whatever. I don't care about that stuff. So that's what I mean. Like it's like there's it's always the like the fine line. It's like when when people now it seems weird. It's like people do nothing. Right. Like when people do nothing.

people don't dye their hair anymore. They go completely gray. Then a bunch of people will comment on that or it negatively impacts their career. You can't escape it. Yeah, exactly. You can't. Or if you're like, I'm just going to like eat whatever I want, like, you know, uh, cardio be damned. And then they gain weight and then everyone comments a bunch of negative stuff about that. But then if you go to the other extreme, you're, you're still kind of, you're like stuck on either end. It's like this unhealthy, like pendulum. Uh, and so I feel like for me at least, uh,

because I turned 40 this year. That's big for women. I think that's a pretty big turning point. It was the first time a birthday like didn't feel great. Like I was like, Oh, what? If I live to 80, then I was like, I'm halfway to 80. Now, I just want to comment like what a triumph, you know, a new mom and all the stuff that you went through to get to this point in your life to have what you have and your beautiful kid and Kyle and you're so knowledgeable about

you know, everything in your life. And yet there's that little thing hanging onto you that you didn't really enjoy your 40th birthday. I didn't, I didn't like it. And I felt halfway. No, I didn't. I didn't really celebrate it. I felt halfway to 80. And I also feel like I'm not where I thought I would be.

And that's a thing that's so common is I thought that certain parts of my life would look different. Now that's foolishness and I- No, it's not foolish because it's reality. It's what your mind and your heart, your psyche, what you were prepared for at 40. And I understand that. Are you a planner, Caitlin? Do you plan? A little bit, like in some areas. Are you a planner, Sarah? Yeah, but I'm also a procrastinator so they cancel each other out. Yeah.

Well, not necessarily. I mean, look at what you've just done. I mean, we're coming to you from the Women in Media Network podcasting network. Sarah always laughs when you say that. I always fuck that up. But I mean, congratulations. And also congratulations on the 22nd big opening night. And just as a just a sidebar to this conversation, these two women have been talking to each other for two and a half years now.

Or longer than that, because Caitlin's relationship with Sarah preceded mine. And they just met in person at the launch event like last week. Crazy. And Caitlin was exactly like who I thought she was, you know, like it was, I don't know if I seem the same as through a screen, but. Yeah. Yeah.

Total, 1000%. It was like, it felt like we weren't meeting for the first time. It felt like we had already known each other for so long because we have virtually, but it was great. And I mean, Sarah, like you've hit this stride and you probably never thought you were going to necessarily do this starting out. Did you plan this? And you didn't procrastinate. Obviously you're here. Yeah, I guess there's some. And you've started this network with, you know, all these amazing women that are talking about so many different things. Yeah.

Do any of us plan or are any of us where we thought we would be? I'm not where I thought I'd be, which is fantastic. I think a big part for like women, maybe my age, like I just turned 37 two weeks ago and I,

I will say this, like three years ago, I would have been in my head thinking about like, oh, my relationship's not where I want it to be. I don't have kids. I'm not married, blah, blah, blah. But now I think I've spent enough quality time with myself and getting to know myself that now I don't care at all about those things. It's totally fine because I'm so proud of myself. Well, I hope you celebrate 41, Caitlin. I hope when you get there. Me too. Yeah.

I hope that it feels like a different, because obviously it's such a privilege to get older. I think as I've gotten older, and I'll tell you this right now, because I'm 20 odd years older than you guys, I have friends that are succumbing to the weirdest things just because I'm at an age. So most of my friends don't have their parents anymore. So we're all kind of orphaned. There's a few stragglers that I'm like, I'm so jealous you still have your mom and dad and

Um, but it changes, but how you face things, how you, how you take the information and kind of manifest it emotionally is so different. And even week to week, you'll find changes in yourselves of things that, and I'm not talking about those lines in your face. Cause I'm,

I'm well aware of that feeling, but I have so much grace in it now. I'm so unbothered by it. I'm so, it just doesn't bother me at all, but I've been where that you, where you are, but I hope you, you somehow find the celebration and, and that joy in,

And I know you guys have tons of joy. I'm not debating that. Yeah, like I'm not trying to misrepresent the fact that like I enjoy like my life. I just felt like 40 was- Your life is so great. 40 was just like, it's halfway to 80, which I was like, oh my God. Daunting is maybe the right word. You are hilarious with this halfway to 80 thing. Well, I'm halfway to 124. How does that sound?

Well, see, exactly. And maybe we'll all live that long and be cryogenically frozen like Walt Disney, according to conspiracy theorists. But I do feel like I thought career wise things would look different for me. But I've done already so much that I didn't ever think I would do that I am proud of.

so I do try to balance it. I never want to have an unbalanced perspective on things, so I did get in there with my CBT work and say right away, like, okay, let's take stock of the stuff that is working for you, but it was the first birthday where I've been like, and I'm not a big birthday person, but it was the first birthday. I'm not a big birthday person either. All three of us. We don't care. Do you guys hear the sound of a crying baby in the background, Sarah? I do. Okay. I can hear it very faintly. Do you need to check on Will quickly?

Well, he might come join us on the show. Hold on a second. Well, this is real life. Welcome. If you're walking in the woods right now, listening to the Jan Arden podcast, Caitlin has left us. I wonder if you'll feel the same way about 40, because there's a lot of listeners out there that are in their 30s, in their 20s, in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s.

Do you think you'll feel like you're not where you want to be like three years from now? But you just said you've kind of let go of that. I've already let go of it, I think. Yeah, I feel pretty good. The one thing...

I've taken away from aging and women as of late. I don't know if you've ever listened to the Mel Robbins podcast. I've not listened to the podcast. I'm aware of her because I do follow her on the socials. I think she's fantastic. Yeah. So she put out an episode about menopause and perimenopause a couple weeks ago. And it's mind-blowing how just our physiology changes.

We are up against a lot to just continue on. Okay. Oh man. So I was talking a few weeks ago. I kept falling asleep with my arm above my head and my shoulders all messed up. It's impacted me at the gym and you know, I love going to the gym every day. Right? Like, so I'm going through this weird thing right now with that, where I'm trying to slow down to get the shoulder better. And yeah,

While listening to that podcast, she's talking about perimenopause and how your collagen depletes. Hi, Will. So when your collagen is depleting in your body, something like your shoulder joint could present like that. And that's the only reason because your collagen is depleting because of your age. Well, yeah, you have to make sure you're giving yourself what you need. Listen, in my 40s, I was still such a turd. I was still...

When I was your guys' age, I know that's not proper English, but that's what I'm going to say. Like my career was just on like 1 million miles an hour and I was flinging all over the world and doing all this stuff and drinking so much. I don't even think I was sober enough, long enough to notice that I did have a sore shoulder. And if anything was sore on me, I would think to myself, what did I fall over last night? I don't even remember that. Like I

My injuries were always like, oh my God, what did I do? You guys should be so proud of yourselves because you seem like both the pictures of decorum and control and steadfastness and punctuality and persistence. Like when I look at you guys and I look at where I was at your age, I'm just shaking my head. Yes, I had a career, but I was so out of control. God only knows where I actually could have ended up had I been

like you guys. We are so excited to welcome another new sponsor, our friends at Cove Soda. Have I pestered Cove enough to come and join us here at the Jan Arden podcast? I love them so much. They are Canadian, first of all. They are a natural, certified organic, zero sugar soda, which includes, get this, one big

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Hi, Will. Can you say hi? Hi. No. No. He's like, no, mommy. You're like Marilyn Dennis's, her Adam. He followed in her footsteps. I know. Jan Marilyn wanted me to sing happy birthday to you for her today, but I won't do that to our listeners. I had my friend Rose Cousins whistle to me. I've never had, I've never had, had a

Happy birthday whistled to me. I'm a much better whistler than I am singer too, so I relate to Rose on that front. Whistling is a lost art. I love whistling. It is. My dad used to whistle all the time. My grandfather used to do it all the time, and I love whistling. Oh, you got a pencil out. What are you doing? This is so perfect for our talk today. This is from Rose Cousins. Okay. What's it say? It says...

impending mortality awareness society. And she was selling it at merch at her shows. No. I love that. Impending mortality awareness society. Well, listen, our impending mortality is supposed to remind us to be in the moment. Yes. Like all those things that the Grim Reaper is sitting on our shoulder constantly because he or she is trying to remind us of the

The spectacular nature of being on this planet. I was listening to a guy just like a month ago or something.

And he was talking about the likelihood of even being alive and even being here. And he gave some statistic, which kind of was bothersome to me because I'm like, how do you come up with this number? And it was like one in 40 trillion, something like that, that we are even here. Like the likelihood of being on a planet that so far is the only little speck of blue in our galaxy that has a planet with life on it, water, trees, oxygen, and

And when people think, well, what's next? What else is there? What's the point? And he made a good point. He said, what more do you want? You are here. You are going on holidays on beaches or you're making love or you're drinking whiskey or smoking weed. You're walking through a jungle. What more do you guys want? You're here, which is spectacular. Right?

I don't worry about that as much anymore. I think I did when I was young, worrying about dying. When you think about retirement, Sarah, what comes to your mind? So is that something that isn't part of your generational trajectory? Because when I was growing up, like my mom and dad, retirement was always a thing. Even when my dad was your age, when he was in his 50s, when

When he was like early 60s, that's it, I'm done. I can just sit and do nothing. And it killed him. Retirement killed him because he lost his way. My dad has not retired yet because he's going to be like that. What is your perception of what that looks like for you? Or is it even a conversation in your head? Like that will never be part of your process.

Plan as a 60 year old woman. My planning for retirement is like doing the bare minimum to have a, you know, my RRSP and all, and all of that stuff saving. Oh my God. I should not even admit this to you. Cause it's been a full year since you said it to me. Do you know where I'm going? The will. What is fucking will.

You haven't done your fucking will. I've emailed two people and they kind of passed me around and then I got too busy by the time they were ready for me. So I have to re-approach them. You can just do it online. That's what I did. I know, she's so mad at me. You need to do your will.

I'm not mad at you, but now you're a mogul. I think I used willful or something like that. Sarah, I'm sending you the link to the online service. I'll give you a discount code. It's so easy. We did it because we were traveling and we were worried about will, not the actual legal document. But yes, you have to do that. And you have to be saving for your RRSPs.

Yeah, she's doing that. I do the bare minimum of things, but for the most part, I live here and now and today. This may not be for everyone, and I'm certainly not a financial expert, but I always would take a loan to get my RSPs when I was your age. If I did not have like $12,000 cash or whatever, I would take a loan.

that I would, that low interest. And my banker was always like, that's an excellent, do it. Take a loan, put it into your RSPs and then pay this off. Thanks for telling us after deadline. But I'm just saying, I didn't, that never made sense to me, but it does now because when I look at what I have in my RSPs, I'm like, hubba hubba, all right. I mean, it was a great idea back in the day when money was free. So once again, the question to you guys is, what does the word retirement conjure up in your mind? And is that a goal? Is it like,

I'm 40 years old when I hit. So is it 60? What's the retirement point? Is it 15 years? 60. I mean, if it's earlier than 60, great, but definitely 60. Our financial managers have like a dollar amount that they estimate people will probably need. So we will probably sell our place if we still are living in Toronto and live somewhere else. I love the Eastern townships of Quebec.

happy to live there. Also would be very happy to live out east. I have so much family out east. So like Chester, Nova Scotia would be lovely. And what will we be doing? What does, like I said, what does it look like? What is Caitlin and Kyle and 25-year-old Will going to be doing? He's going to be 21, 22 when you're retired.

I know. It's crazy. Will will be visiting from university, probably hung over on my couch, eating all my food. And Kyle will be golfing a whole lot. Kyle and I will be golfing. He won't be. He might not be hung over at all. He might just be...

saying, mom, you need to take your vitamins. If he's anything like his dad and I, he'll be hung over. And then what? You can't golf every day. I'll probably be working in some capacity. Oh, his dad can talk to his dad. His dad can get in two rounds a day if he really pushes it. Um,

But yeah, I don't have the golf bug yet. So I don't know. I'd be happy to see friends. I would love to volunteer. I was going to say giving back in community. Yeah. I think that the community connection and not removing yourself socially from like a greater purpose. I think that's the piece that retirees struggle with. So I would be really happy to do that. What does purpose mean? What does purpose mean?

Jen is like fully pulling like a therapist right now. No, I just, I want to know because this seems very loosey-goosey to me. It's like, okay, for one thing, you might be loving what you're doing and you might not want to even pull that plug until you're 67. My friend Bev just retired. She was 69 and now she's just...

She never stops. Like she's doing consulting. Well, Marilyn still works. Roger worked until he was 70. You know, you can, if you have an engaging and someone's still employing you, you know, if you're still, if you're still working great. Bruce Allen is 78 years old.

Yeah. Like in 79 this year, but he, you know, he really, he works on his own terms. He does something he loves. And if that's you like, man, I ride it till the wheels fall off. I I'm a huge fan of that. But if you're working for someone else, if you're kind of like, Oh, I'm not sure about this, you know, and you want to do something that's more in line with your values and retirement and you have the means to do it. Yeah. I would love to, I would love to work with like women or children. I think the volunteering part, like,

the things I'm doing now, but in a way where I'm more, like you said, consulting makes sense or like giving back to people who need the help with it. I think about my dad so much with this. So

My dad, I think, he listens every week, so I might get in trouble. I think he's 69, I think. 69 is the new 41, so carry on. You know, for a couple of years, we've been asking him, so when are you retiring? Because he sold his business, which was a family business during the pandemic. So now he works for the other person. And he's like, I have an HR meeting. I've never had one of those. But he worries about retiring, correct? He worries about what does this look like when I retire?

don't get into my pants in the morning and get into my car and drive to wherever I'm going. I know he loves like going to the cottage now and he's very comfortable with the idea of like taking two weeks off and just going up to the cottage. But what he's not comfortable with is the idea of not being able to come back to some sort of work yet because he will be bored. Yeah. That's where I think that sometimes like people go into consulting, you know, like you, like your friend Bev, Jan and my grandfather did that. It's traveling. It's going up North. It's going to Prince Edward Island. She's, she's with her skills.

you know, mentoring people. Why is she going to Prince Edward Island? What does she do in Prince Edward Island? I think it's, Bev has always worked sort of in, with marginalized people, people with addictions, you know, the foster care system, like in every capacity, people that, who are literally on the edges of

society needing help and needing places to live, needing programs. Bev has done that for 50 years. Oh my gosh. I wonder if she knew my grandfather because he was the minister of social services for Prince of Rhode Island. And when he did consulting after that, it was like really in that space. So it was working with a lot of people who had, you know, physical disabilities or... Oh yeah. All of that. Oh, I wonder if she knew him. That's interesting. Well, it

It's a very small community, that whole community, like from coast to coast. But retirement, when I talked to her about it, it's not even a word. It wasn't her goal. She just knew that, and we were talking about this, the lines on your face or your shoulder, your physical, the things that start happening to you physically is probably the most disappointing part of aging. Because usually mentally, you're quite sharp and you feel exactly the same. You look in the mirror and you're like, this is me.

But my shoulder's sore. This line in my brow isn't going away. My ankle is sore. My hip is sore from running. Those are the things that are disappointing about aging, but we just have to adapt. But I think with Bev, it was just like I knew that my body just couldn't handle it.

handle the pounding that it was so much travel like it was every week she was probably doing 1500 kilometers that's a lot of driving there's something to be said about your body telling you when it's enough too yes well most people ignore it well yeah that's true getting this this aura ring thing have you liked it yeah yeah i really like it but like it's part of so part of my panic about aging is how i'm not treating my body the best to continue aging well

Right. Like, and it's not about how I look, it's about how I feel. And I feel like crap because I don't sleep. But you know exactly what you need to do to look after yourself. But women at your age still think, well, I'm going to do this anyway. Yeah.

Because we're going out, I'm going to have these six drinks, I'm going to do this. I mean, I'm going to eat this. I mean, that's what you're supposed to do in your life too. You can't regulate every moment of every day. But what I will tell you is that your 65-year-old self, Sarah Burke, needs you to look after the 37-year-old self. Yeah.

And you just, you have to make choices that, they say sleep is more important than anything. I mean, we had our- The 49 sleep score? Oh my God. I was like- What? What?

That is redonkulous. I don't know what that means, but I need to know. Well, she should be in the 80s. Her sleep score, it's out of 100 on the ring. I've never had a 100. My highest is 92. And I knew I'd had a good sleep. And I looked at my number in the morning. I'm like, I feel like I've been in an oxygen chamber all night. Before the launch of the network, there was just so much to do. And because I was so heavily booked with recordings and things, the work was being done at

you know, after dinner or whenever I could fit it in. And so for April, I have a big goal to rebalance my life. It's a big goal and I'm very excited for it when I'm finished teaching. They talk about this a lot in so many of the books that I've read really over the last 15 years about aging, about,

accepting yourself and not being frightened. So many people are frightened. So many women are very, very frightened. Men too, but I'm talking mostly about women today because I'm a woman and that's what I know. But almost every article I've read speaks about women and their friendships and how friendships, important friendships, help you to be yourself through every level of your life.

obviously old friends are wonderful because the people that knew you when you were 20, like it's weird for me.

I know a handful of people that have known me since I was 12 years old, 10 years old. And we're now seeing each other 50 years into this life together. And there's so much comfort in it because you're moving through those physical changes, those physiological changes, those mental changes, the emotional changes, spiritual changes. My God, I've changed my ideas about spirituality and God and religion 50 times in the last 50 years. Yeah, yeah.

And to have these people with me, but they talk about the importance of friendship in your overall health.

And you guys both seem like you have very good friends anytime that, I mean, I haven't met a lot of Caitlin's friends, but I've met some of your friends. And how important is that to either of you guys, the friendships in your life? It's interesting because I'm just coming out of that launch event and the people that I made sure were in the room at that launch event were people who have shown me like support every inch of the way before the network was even in conception, you know? Yeah. And

I definitely got some questions about people who weren't in the room. Questions in your heart and mind. Why aren't these people in this room? Key people that you felt were key people? So me feeling bad, me feeling like the guilt about not inviting someone, but I had a guest list and a budget and, you know, there's some things there. But, you know, when I made that list, I asked myself. Oh, I see. Now I'm understanding. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm picking up what you're laying down. There's a guest list for the creators too. I wanted everyone to be like, you know, Debbie and Tommy were doing a live tape of their podcast. So I wanted them to have guests in the audience that they wanted there. Debbie doesn't live here. So it's like the one time she's in from Tuscany, invite your friends and family that you don't see, of course. And then, you know, on top of that, there's business relationships that I want to be there. And then there's just people that were friends, support people. And the people who got invites are,

cared enough to ask what I've been working on, cared enough to want to know what I was dreaming about after I left my last job, were proud of me. And earnestly too. Proud of me. And you know, like there were, it's interesting, there's a lot of like, I'm going to use the word performative things going on right now from some people in my life. But as you get older, you steer away from that

Because you realize that your whole entity, never mind your emotional brain self, but your body just rejects that because you're not. I always say to people, if you leave a room with a few individuals that are your friends and you leave feeling anything less than lifted up, supported, understood, nurtured,

You need to feel bigger than when you came into the room. That I know at 62. I don't have a million friends. I know a lot of people. But when I look at my life and who's in my life and the importance of how I feel about my well-being, I'm the luckiest person in the world.

You don't want to be depleted. And you do feel it, but you ignore those feelings. Sometimes you're like, oh God, this person I'm putting up with. I could have invited them because I felt guilty, but I was like, no, I'm protecting my...

energy on that day. Wrong reason to do anything is guilt. And you also get used to feeling depleted, right? Like it's like inertia where you're like, oh, this person's just like this. They just whatever. And then again, you hit, for me at least, closing in on 40, you hit a certain age and say, energy is a finite resource and I do not care to expend it on someone who is frankly never going to change.

Well, it's important for your well-being. So never mind just a nuisance. It's important for your health. And you're like, what do I want to do? Feel like drained when I come back from seeing this person so that I'm kind of distant and weird around my kid. Like that for me is a big thing. If I notice that like being around someone makes me more tired or they take up my energy away from Will and my focus away from Will, I'm like, no, nothing is that important.

Move on. Aging is, like you said earlier in the episode, it really is a privilege because so many things come into focus and you do get a better perspective on what's important in life and you draw clearer boundaries to protect your resources, you know, internally or externally. And...

That is really the gift of aging. And you said to January like, oh, well, you know, I want people to like step into this era of wisdom. It really is wisdom. Like it's so much experience. It's time. Like it takes 10,000 hours to become an expert in anything. Is that not like what people always quote?

Yeah, no, no, that's one of the things they do say. Like if you think about learning piano, I think 10,000 hours would pretty much give you the skills that you would need to go forward. However, that does not apply to me because I've played my guitar for probably 30,000 hours and I suck balls.

So no, I know six chords, but I've never poured myself into it. So I make sure that what I pour myself into, I'm really passionate about. So I don't waste my time. Well, listen, I mean, we can talk forever and a day about this stuff, but I did want to touch upon that just because I stumbled across this video of this woman, actually my friend Judith Sampson French. I'm lying right now. I didn't stumble across it. I stumbled across it because somebody pointed me towards it. Judith, thank you.

And it was a woman talking about getting older. And I was so fascinated by this 12 minute video. I've put it up on my Facebook page. If you have any interest, not the Jan Arden pod page, although I will forward it to if you, maybe you can copy it over there, Sarah. I'm not sure which one of us is doing that. Will's going to do it, but it's so inspiring. And I don't care if you're 19 or you're 25, your bag of tricks will get bigger as you get older.

And you will have more experiences and more tools in that bag in order to deal with anything that life throws at you. So the grace that I have as we come to the end of this episode is that no matter what befells me, if it's health things, if it's emotional stuff, if it's depression or anxiety or decision-making, I open up this bag that's 62 years old now.

And I dig around in there and I can find whatever it is that I need to cope, to go forward, to undo, to calm myself down. And I can't believe it's taken me this long. It takes so long to become a person, like a well-informed, well-rounded, thoughtful person. It's got to be some kind of record. I don't think there's any other record.

animal on this planet that takes as freaking long as human beings do to become what they are supposed to be. So don't be hard on yourself, but look after yourself because like I said, your 60 year old body really needs your 25, 35 year old self to look after itself. And Will wants to say goodbye. You've been listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. Once again, you can subscribe to us.

Listen to us wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. And if you hit that subscribe button, then you won't have to look for us. We'll just appear. Jan Arden Pod is our handle across all social media platforms.

Caitlin Green will always be here. Sarah Burke will be here. We are on the Women in Media Podcast Network. Can you believe that? And at JanArdenPod.com. JanArdenPod.com. You can leave us a voice note. As we go out, we're going to play some of the voicemails we got this week because we have. We have the time. And we got some really great ones. And we got schooled. Thank you to the person that said we owe Kate Middleton an apology, which I hope you will accept on behalf of us.

So we got some really great notes from people.

We got a voice note from Sherry. Jan, Caitlin, Sarah. My name is Sherry and I wanted to say that I adore you guys and this podcast. I confess that I'm never actually current with the episodes. I walk 40 minutes to work every day and I like to listen to you guys for at least two days in a row. So that means I have to stockpile a little bit. Listening to your podcast has a feel like I'm sitting around the living room chatting with my friends. Thanks for that.

Thanks a lot and keep up the great work. We got a voice note from Angeline in Nova Scotia. I was watching the Junos that were taking place in Halifax and it reminded me of when you had hosted the Junos some years back. The funniest joke that I remember that you told at that time was that you were checking up on one of your artists and you had poked your head into their dressing room and

And you happened to catch him adjusting their toupee. And you said that it was Ann Murray adjusting her toupee. It was a fantastic Junos. We got a voice note from Colleen in Burlington. It is Sunday night, about just after seven. Just come in from a colder walk with the sun out, but...

Listening to you and Chelsea and Sarah and Caitlin, I was mostly laughing the whole walk. And it's really fun to listen to you. And it keeps me going on my walks. And just wanted to thank you for doing this because it's great listening to you. Yeah, thank you so much for the voice notes. That's the most we've ever had in one week. So this is getting out of control. I'm even leaving voice notes on our webpage because I'm so desperate. I'm like, hi, my name's Jan. I love the show.

Call me. And this other really cute thing, I got to read this because it's from Laura and she's throwing back to the MySpace days.

She goes, with Good Friday approaching, I am reminded of another Good Friday a hundred years ago in the time of MySpace when Jan invited her followers to ask her anything, to which I bravely requested she call and leave me a message on voicemail. That was followed by a DM from Jan asking for my phone number and calling her bluff, I provided it.

Giddy does not adequately express the excitement when I later check my phone to find a message from Jan, including a wee snippet of Moon River. Loved you then, loved you now. Keep doing what you're doing because you're doing it well. So thank you, Laura. And I remember that. I remember calling. Thanks for trusting me with your phone number. I've been writing it on bathroom walls ever since you gave it to me.

For a good time call Laura. No, anyways, thank you for that. So yeah, thanks. I hope you girls have a nice weekend. I hope that I have a healthy weekend that doesn't include being buried underneath. That's like, that's all I pray for now at this point. So I'm sick right now too. I'm just like a bit under the weather. That's, that's why I keep muting my mic. I don't want to like sniffle on you guys. Once again, it was great to talk to you. Thanks for being open. Thanks for answering all these questions.

Hi to your dad. I know he's listening right now. Retire whenever you're comfortable. I met Sarah's dad. He's so lovely. Just can we take the word retire and just retire the word retire? Because it doesn't really mean what human life should be. Like, just be whatever age you want to be. Do stuff until you want to do stuff anymore. And you can go and apply for a job when you're 75, you know. You don't have to quit anything. You don't have to lay down your whatever. And if people want to do that, that's fine too. But

We only have so much time to do stuff. Thanks for listening. Oh, I just got reminded on my computer. It's Jan Arden Richard's 67th birthday on... 67th? Have you been lying to us this entire episode? Sorry. My 62nd birthday. Okay. I don't mind. I hope I make it to 67. You will. Me too, Jan. Thanks for listening. And I mean that. Our subscriptions are going up, up, up all the time. And that's thanks to you guys. So we'll see you next time. Toodaloo.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.