The Golden [Podcast] Girls
58:06 Share

Hello, welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. We are well into the holidays. I'm here with Caitlin Green. Hello, Caitlin. Hi. She lost her voice, but you sounded almost like you. I know. I already have a deep voice, and so when I lose my voice and when I get sick...

I sound like Stalker Channing or something. It's crazy. Sexy. Oh, yeah. I lost my voice completely earlier in the week. Like, just squeaks were coming out. And it's like the one thing you need to do your job in radio. So it's kind of a bummer when that happens.

Yeah. Listen, right out of the bag, I want to speak to you about regifting. There's an epic regifting story. We're still talking about the holidays. We're still talking about gifts. And this is a difficult time of year for people. We know that. So we're definitely going to try and bring a little bit of levity your way because it seems like what was really traumatizing last year can be pretty damn funny.

You know, when you get 12 months to think back on it. So regifting Sarah, go. Okay, I'm wearing a sweater, as you can see right now. Kind of a Blue Jays. A Blue Jays like ugly Christmas sweater. Okay, we'll call it. So a colleague of mine, I've been at the radio station this week, tells me she has a gift for me and makes me open it in front of a bunch of people. And I pull out this sweater.

Now, I don't know if you can tell, but I can't really breathe. It's very tight. Like, I don't even need a bra. It's like a push-up bra. It's a push-up sweater. It's so tight. Like, I'm wearing it for the pure laughter that will hopefully come from this story.

So I pull out of the bag. I'm like spiraling anxiety. Oh my goodness. This is like a $75, $80 sweater. I got her a $10 Starbucks gift card. This is going to suck. We talked about this last week. This is exactly why I thought of our conversation. So as I'm driving home, I'm like spiraling. What am I going to do? I have to get her something quickly. I have to bring it tomorrow. Blah, blah, blah.

I put the sweater on when I get home and she's asked me to FaceTime her daughter who played a role in the gift. So I put it on for the FaceTime and I was like, oh my God, I could hardly get this thing over one boob, let alone two. And it smells like detergent, like very strong detergent. And when I went to look at what size it was, because I was having trouble getting it on, no tag. So I'm like...

So as I figure this out, I stop feeling bad. I'm like, she's getting Starbucks tomorrow. It's going to be fine. So I kind of brought this up live on air today with her. And she said that she actually bought it a year ago and saved it for a year. And I was like, but is it common to take the tags off gifts? Do you? Well, do you think it had something to do with the size, Sarah? Like,

Was it extra small or a child's size maybe? Because you're quite like tiny, like you're not a big person. Well, put it this way. I wear a women's large in most things. She is teeny tiny though.

Well, listen, it looks from where we're sitting, it is kind of a funky sweater, but it looks pretty cute. Like you look good in it. And if I get it from you next year, I will know exactly what happened. The sisterhood of the traveling sweater. She says, oh, it smells like detergent because it was in my closet. And I was like, okay. But she was a good sport about it. I did ask her permission to talk about this, but she swears she bought it a year ago. Right.

I was like, okay. Well, our conversation last week got me thinking about so many things, you know, that seems so absurd at Christmas. But my friend Leah is visiting here with her sister. And she's like, did you tell those guys about when your dad burnt 2,500 bucks? Yeah.

And I think Caitlin and I, we probably did talk about this like last year, but I was in my 20s and my mom's stepdad would always give mom and dad like $2,500. So you can imagine in the early 80s, you might as well have been getting $10,000, right? That's crazy. You gave it to them every year? Yeah, cash. What? What?

Yeah, he'd give them money every year. He was a guy that painted highways his whole life. I always, when I was a kid, wondered why his pants were always yellow and he always had like industrial highway paint. And he did that for 40 years of his life. Did it pay really well back in the day? You know, I don't know. I'm in a government job at...

He was very generous with mom. He never had children. I think I've mentioned that he was a virgin when he married my grandma. He was 40 and grandma was 45 and it was her second marriage, but he was very generous with my folks. What a sweetie pie. I know. And in the, in the kerfuffle, you know, you've got kids and nephews and everyone's opening stuff and there's the envelope with the 2,500 and my parents were, I know that that floated them. I know it did. And I know they really depended on it.

But my dad burnt it one year. It just went into the fireplace with the wrapping paper. And you know, my mom, even when she lost her memory, and I mean, this is 40 years later. Well, remember when dad burnt all that money? But my dad, he could hardly eat dinner. Oh, yeah. And I remember him going upstairs. And I honestly think I heard him crying.

about it. And this is my dad who I was quite frightened of. And I mean, I didn't have the emotional aptitude to kind of take in what was happening to him, but I'll never forget that. And I felt very helpless and I felt a little bit uneasy to hearing him like that. Oh, yeah. But I think he was so upset.

And I don't know if they ever told Charlie that they burnt that money. No, there's no point. But my mom, yeah, it stuck in her mind. Oh my gosh. I wonder what that would be adjusted for inflation. Because I mean, burning $2,500 today is still a big deal, let alone back then. Yeah. 10 grand. It'd be 10 grand, yeah. Well, we looked and looked. Christmas had...

a cloud looming over it. And I think I realized just how paycheck to paycheck mom and dad were. I mean, she told me years later, it took dad and I a year to pay off our credit cards. So you kids had a nice Christmas. And that always breaks my heart about, you know, what families do go through and, and that my dad, as much as he came across as this

harbinger of doom and quite a foreboding personality. There was a real lost little boy in

just like everyone else, a very human quality to him. But anyways, it's a weird Christmas story, but my friend Leah just said, oh, bring that up because she goes, that's such a heartbreaker. Yeah. I mean, I feel like everyone has as many bad Christmas stories as they do good ones. Oh gosh. Like the stakes are just too high to not have equal parts bad and good things happen at Christmas, I feel. Well, I think at the heart of

everybody's Christmas. I think it really is the gathering of people, even if it's a weird experience, even if there's a few brawls that break out and I'm talking the holidays, like Hanukkah, whatever. When you have family gathering that you don't see throughout the year, some families, basically it's Christmas every weekend at their house because they're always together. But for people that fly in and do all that stuff, it's stressful. But

My point was a meal, some junk food, watching the Grinch again. I don't know. Football seems to be a big thing with a lot of my friends. They watch American football and that's going on. So although we've talked a lot about gifts, don't worry about it. Just give them a gift card. Give them a candle underpants and just enjoy this time. Just give them a sweater they've already washed.

Exactly. I think it is. I think they shrunk it, Sarah. It smells like literally fresh detergent. Question. My sister and I were going through this. We're preparing for our Hanukkah party this weekend. I think we could use an opinion. At what point do the people who were once the kids start having to give to the younger cousins because we have cousins that are younger than us?

And we were like, should we get them things we don't know? I would think, yeah, it's your turn to lift the, to swing the bat. That's what I feel like. And nevermind that. When does your generation start having its own traditions? Like,

You and Caitlin, like, do you guys do your own version of Christmas with or Hanukkah with the tree? Because you guys are still at that age where you're you're leaning into the parents pretty good. But mind you, Caitlin, you have sort of a fragmented your your mom's family, your dad's family, Kyle's family. Yeah. So so there's a lot of people that you need to see. We're always moving around at the holidays.

If we go anywhere, we go to East to see my husband's family. And I have family in PEI and that's where his brother lives now. So we do tend to go to East. But now that we have Will, we'll probably be home basing it a little more often. Kyle and I, even before we had Will, though, we would always do a tree. Our Christmas Eve tradition when we were in Ontario would be that we would have a tortillere and clam chowder for Christmas.

Christmas Eve dinner and we got them from like two of our favorite places. And then we would go for a massage on, um, on Christmas Eve day, like a relaxing, the whole day was just like, let's just relax and not worry about it. So that's what we used to do. And that's probably not happening now that we have crazy toddler will running around. I can babysit if you want, if you want to do your tradition, you let me know. Okay. Well,

So yeah, so we do that. I mean, I'm trying to think that's pretty well it. Like, I mean, we frequently watch. We did our Christmas tradition actually with our friends the other week where we watch both of the Home Alone movies and we order pizza. So we did that together. And I also, as a follow up to last week's episode, we did the Home Alone tradition with my friend whose aunt was the one that made all the Santas.

Oh, that was so great. He sent me a screenshot of her website traffic after we mentioned it on the show and then posted it on our socials. And it was just like,

a hundred times more what it would normally be. So thank you to all the listeners who just even checked the site out. Cause it's kind of a thrill for her and maybe even bought a Santa. Well, you can thank intact insurance because they're the ones that are keeping us on the air. And if you want to ensure your Santa intact, probably has a policy that if he lights on fire through no fault of your own can be replaced. And we know who can replace it. Um,

It's so great. I love movies. Last night we watched The Family Stone, which I had never seen before. I've never seen that. With Sarah Jessica Parker. It's about 17 years old and it actually stands up pretty good. I think the dead giveaway for some of these older movies is always, always the computers and the tech. Yeah. The phones are a dead giveaway and the Mac computer, the Apple computer was that beautiful. It looked like an old television set, but it was like state of the art. I knew that I wouldn't

ever be able to have a computer like that. Tonight, we're doing The Holiday with Kate Winslet, Jude Law, Jack Black, and Cameron Diaz. I found that movie to be, Kate Winslet aside, virtually unwatchable. Yeah.

Tell me why. We're excited about it. Okay, Jude Law actually is quite good in his role. I feel like him and Kate Winslet were just obviously the better actors, probably. Cameron Diaz is frighteningly bad, like distractingly bad in that role, I find.

And the scenes of her alone in the little thatched cottage that she swaps with Kate Winslet on when she's alone there, like having her weird, like, I'm a single gal alone dance parties. It just, I cringe into like another dimension watching it. Don't you think that that's the writer's fault? Yeah, probably.

But like there just is something where like she can't carry that type of character. Like maybe it would be more palatable from someone else. But yeah, you're right. The writing in that moment is also definitely to blame. And same as the writing to blame when it's like Jack Black's character is very, very sweet and endearing, but they like miscast him as like a bit of a like music producer heartthrob who's got this like early 2000s hot girl girlfriend. And you're like, this entire situation is written by a man. Yeah.

Like, but I will say the house porn is fabulous. I mean, the settings, like that's the dream scenario is when it's like a thatched roof cottage and the Cotswolds and then this beautiful home in LA. Did you say house porn? Yeah. That's like when you just like look at houses and like, that's what, like, okay. Just clarify. All the like Nora Ephron, like,

A good rom-com, the heart of many good rom-coms is essentially house porn or like traveling, like having a cool location. And then people, you're halfway there, I think, in terms of a rom-com. Well, is it also because of it being from 2005? Yeah.

I mean, we're talking almost 20 years ago and those rom-coms were quite outlandish. But like rom-coms have gotten worse. Like the era of the rom-com is like long gone. Like Notting Hill, My Best Friend's Wedding, Sleepless in Seattle, like the classics. Because it's the damsel in distress. It's the damsel in distress. Yes.

And it just doesn't work. Pretty Woman? In what world does that ever work again? Yeah. I mean, that doesn't age well. And let me remind you guys of the premise of Pretty Woman. A sex worker, Julia Roberts, is hired for a week by Richard Gere to be the bobble on his arm in business undertakings.

And of course they fall in love and he showers her with stuff and throws some more money at her to maintain this facade. And then she doesn't fit in. And anyway, Jason Alexander's terrible and he tries to like assault her. And then Richard Gere has to step in at the last minute. Yes. Yeah. That was awful. It was. You're doing it for him. Like, why can't you do it for me? Yeah. Would that work in 2023? There's, there's no way.

That that would work in this world, in this climate. It's the old, like, hooker with the heart of gold thing that they did in movies for so long, right? So I think that was kind of, like, the selling point of it. But also it's just Julia Roberts is just such a runaway star in that movie. She is just so, like...

fresh faced and like beautiful and just has that Hollywood star quality to her that even though I think the movie was now and looking back like a bit inherently problematic they kind of got away with it because I was like this was her moment and like Richard Gere just played that character so well so I don't know but yeah like I remember the scenes where she was like at that nightclub with her friend who like didn't quite make it out of that world and

And like they included some dark stuff. There were like muggings and like drug dealers, like felt like they at least didn't really sugarcoat the fact that her life was very complicated and difficult and that Richard Gere's life was definitely not like that at all. Can I give you my version in real life of this movie? Yeah. So picture young Jan. I've gone out to Vancouver previous to this happening.

I was busking on the street in Gastown. Are you living under June at this point? I was in Vancouver. So this was pre-living under June. I was a little bit younger then. So I literally would have been 20 years old, which is certainly old enough to know better. But my 20 version, I'm sorry, I'm going to defend myself here. I was more like 16, 17. I was from Springbank, Alberta. I had very

very little experience with social interaction, even in a city setting. I just didn't. I lived in the country with my folks and went to a small country school. And the biggest thing we ever did was drive to Crossfield to play basketball, you know, with a different team. I had no experience. So anyway, in Gat, I had a chance. I lived with a friend out there, played in Gastown, got slugged out, tail between my legs, black eye, yada, yada, yada. A few months went by.

And, um, somebody just needed, and, and let me tell you, Vancouver was certainly not, um, besieged with the kinds of drug issues they're seeing now in the East end. I think it was the light version. It probably seemed bad in 1985, but anyway, I got punched. I lived to tell the tale and they stole my four or five bucks. But anyway, fast forward, I had moved out from my friend's apartment.

and got my own little place. And I, Jan Richards, slept a few times with my landlord, his name was Neil, he was a young guy, to pay my rent. No way. Yeah, I'm not kidding you. And it was never set up that way. I didn't really like him that much. And he was always very nice to me. But I did sleep with him a couple of times, 20 years old, heading towards 21. And

And I remember he always made me a nice meal, which was a bonus. I mean, I keep painting this picture of this, you know, like I was destitute and I wasn't. I was stubborn and I just didn't want to go home. And so when he kind of waived the rent off, which was $275 in 1985 in the North Shore of Vancouver, right?

I accepted it. Right. And I slept with him another couple of times. And I think then I did, you know, pay my rent and then I eventually moved back home. I felt like I am on a road that I don't want to be on. So I really have never talked. I think I have talked about it. I think I wrote about it in my Falling Backwards memoir.

2008 or 2009, whenever I wrote that. But Neil, yeah, wherever you are, I'm not going to say his last name, but it was a very funny last name. Okay. An identifying last name. It's a very identifying last name. Okay. And for him anyway. And I don't want people Googling this poor man saying, oh, but anyway, yeah. So I think about times like that in my life with a lot of kindness and a lot of mercy and

and a lot of understanding. And I think it took me a long time to get to that in my life where I wasn't, you know, shaking my head and feeling ashamed and, oh my God, how could I do that? Neil was the nicest guy. I mean, if

As I got older, in my late 20s, I was sleeping with guys for goddamn french fry and a steak sandwich. A lot's changed. You know, that's what it came down to. Well, the thing that's funny is like people have one night stands in life, right? No one's then after the fact like waiving their rent, right? But I just, I do think that...

there is a little bit of a, like you're correct in your assessment that like you do have to look back on this and just give yourself a break. You can't feel ashamed of it. Cause in the same way that I wouldn't want someone to feel ashamed of a one night stand, um,

And in the same way that I wouldn't tell someone to be ashamed of having an OnlyFans account or, you know, like sugar baby culture now is huge. I mean, it's massive. Like there's so many sugar babies, especially Toronto. I think we're the sugar baby capital of Canada. Ding, ding. Yeah. And you can see it when you are out. And so I don't know. It's like it's kind of like a part of life and a part of some people's memories. Sure.

Yeah, just perspective, right? Just when you look back at becoming a person, you have to make a choice at some point to

to realize that you are learning, literally learning how to be a person, how to establish who you are, how to figure out what you like, what you don't like, what's acceptable to you, where your lines are drawn in the sand. And, you know, human beings are the only living entity that punish themselves for things that they did in the past. A dog doesn't.

If you don't catch a dog right away, they're really not sure what you're going on about. You know, unless you catch them tearing the couch apart. I mean, if a dog tears a couch apart,

and waits for you to come home, they're going to know what they did. Anyway, but we punish ourselves over and over again. You can call it PTSD, or you can call it, you know, that long-term trauma. And it all depends on how we treat our own transgressions. So I'm really careful with my heart. I'm really careful with

things that I associate with drinking. And I'm just careful with how I let that play out in my mind. For the most part, I set those things in little jars in a shelf in my heart and I screw these lids on, but I'm very careful to poke holes in the lid because I want them to be able to breathe. I don't want this airtight thing that if I just happen to take the lid off of that memory,

that I am just hit with this thing that's been sitting in there, stifled. And I think obviously our memories are very important to us because that's what we build our lives around. So just be easy on yourselves. If you've got old memories that tap you on the shoulder every now and again, I think it's best to sit down with it and have a cup of tea. So many metaphors. Well, no, seriously, I just think it's best to sit there and

not ruminate for weeks on end and be like, you know, but you can feel instant shame. That's what I mean about punishing yourself over and over again for something that's very old. Shame is like such a powerful damaging emotion too. Amen. It really drives a lot of bad decisions and yeah, it's just, it's a unbalanced perspective usually.

of what happened as well because you contextualized what happened with you and neil anonymous neil very well where you said okay well this is the place i was in and so that's the part of shame and also remembering things that embarrass you that can feel unbalanced because you're magnifying the worst parts of it in an effort to like self-flagellate and move on and feel

remorseful over it but like what's the point this is you know no one else is ruminating on this to the same extent that you would probably so unless you really hurt someone else and probably owe them an apology or have to make amends and just move on everyone's got a kneel

Well, I think to a certain degree, maybe everyone does have a kneel or just an experience. And I have to stress this. It was very mutual and it was very much not at all a situation that I found myself in that I felt if I don't do this, uh-uh-uh. This was the antithesis to that. This was a mutual agreed upon evening with friends

You know, I remember him having, he bought that wine and the bottom of it was that, that woven. Oh my God. Yeah. Like a basket. I don't know if you guys remember that wine. You're, you're a little bit young, but I thought it was so fancy to have wine that was like from Spain or something that was half basket, half bottle. I'm like, holy shit, I've hit pay dirt here. And like a Viennetta for dessert. Do you remember those?

The ice cream cakes? Yes. And they'd be on the tables and you'd look at that card and you'd like, can I really afford 195 for a Viennetta? Viennetta and international coffee, like the international cans of coffee. I remember watching the ads as a kid and thinking, that is millionaire status in life. That's as good as it gets. Listen, I was so grateful for the meals that Neil made because really...

For months at a time, it was mac and cheese and itchy band soup and like cans of Campbell's bean soup. And I really didn't have a lot of money. So it was open in cans and my ironing board was my kitchen table. Like I would put it on the lowest setting and I had these two metal chairs and

I remember my parents came to see me. They came out to Vancouver. I'd been out there maybe 14 months and I kept trying to, no, no, no. And they were in their motor home. Well, dad and I'll just come and we can sleep in the motor home. And my dad said, this is the worst goddamn place I've ever seen in my goddamn life. And he was mad,

And like I said, now I get it. They must have looked at me. I probably looked 15 and they just didn't know what to do with me. They just wanted to get me home. And I still didn't go. It was probably months went by before I went back home again. But I think I did learn a lot about...

being a person. I did learn a lot about obstacles and I did learn about character. And I, when I think back now at the things that were very much self-inflicted of how I chose to learn, I'm exactly the person I always wanted to be. So I can't

say that that wasn't valuable. And I don't think roadblocks are invaluable. I think they are extraordinarily important. And I would say you probably need to get it wrong about 40% of the time if you want to get anywhere in life. And maybe I'm completely exaggerating that. Maybe life's a lot easier now for young people than it was when I was 20. I'm going to say no, because social media, I was going to say. I

I'm also going to say no, because homeownership feels like the impossible dream now and there is no middle class left. But I think it's different too. It's like it can be for some people who are fortunate and have like that family background, like that family safety net. I definitely think that they're taking less risks. Like I would hear stories about my mom hitchhiking through Europe when she was a high school graduate. I'm like, that cannot happen now. Like that's wild. I

I don't know how she wasn't human trafficked. Like I was like, that's, that's crazy. And she just like met guys who she was staying at hostels with. And then one of them would be her boyfriend and she'd travel around with them for six months. And like, it was wild. I'm like, how did you just meet people and like trust them with your safety? Do you think we've been taught to be afraid, Caitlin? Uh,

Um, I think that it feels, at least in my experiences, like it feels different than the stories I heard from my parents growing up. But I guess that just also depends on your background. I had a more PG-13 upbringing. Like I was an only child. My dad's from a family of eight. My mom's from a family of 10. She grew up in a rural setting, like tougher town. I grew up in like a fairly like upper middle class Toronto neighborhood. So, yeah.

My upbringing was different than theirs. So yeah, risk probably was positioned a bit differently. It's just different with every generation. I think the social media thing is such a valid point because you didn't have...

Back in the day, the concern that people do now about accessing young people on their phones and tricking them and all that, that's a huge source of concern. You had to actually like meet people in real life. And city living seems statistically like it's

more dangerous, you know, like there's obviously more violence and crime and everything in a city that has more people. But then when I went to university and I met a bunch of friends who'd grown up in more rural areas, like their stories were like grittier, if that makes sense. Yeah. So,

I get it. It was like I felt like statistically, you know, you're at a lower risk. But at the same time, the like intensity of some other stories, I was like, whoa, like everyone was drinking and driving. Like everyone. Whereas like our friends were like, I remember there was a party where one girl got behind the wheel drunk. And like a horde of like screaming teenagers who'd only watched after school specials were like, no.

in slow motion, like ripping the keys from her hands, being like, take a cab. I remember that. It wasn't like we were responsible. We were obviously underage binge drinking, but like we knew not to get in the car. Well, in the 70s, our friends were going, you'll make it. You'll make it. Take the back roads. No, just shut one eye. Literally encouraging you like,

Like, no, no, you know what? You'll be so bummed out if you don't get home with your truck. Like if you wake up and you have to come back and get your truck, right? No, I'll just go. That's something that's very different with our generations and rural living, not in a city. Yeah. Well, my friend's dad had a drinking car. What? He had a car that he would take out with him when he was drinking back in the day.

Because it was like everyone drank and drove. And so he was like, oh, I don't care if this car gets banged up because I'm driving it when I'm drunk exclusively. That's commitment. That's the craziest thing I could imagine. Because it wasn't like there weren't cabs back then. I mean, sure, there probably weren't Ubers. But I mean, you could have still figured out how to get home. That is the first time I've ever heard anything like that in my life, that you have a drinking car. It's crazy. Yeah.

If you've just joined us, we're talking about the movie The Holiday. Yeah, we promised everyone Christmas content. Now we're like, well... This is where this conversation started. So if you want to secretly...

crawl into the minds of three women sitting around, not even drinking. We started off by talking about the holiday. And then we were just talking about would movies like this get made? And then we sort of segued into Pretty Woman, for example, where would that go? And then I told my own sort of variation of being a Pretty Woman, I

I was cute. I was no Julia Roberts, by God, but I had freckles. And, you know, I was quite cute back in the day. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I'm here with Sarah Burke.

and Caitlin Green. When we come back, we're going to segue right into the dating shows, which feature older people and even people older than me. Can you imagine? Don't go away. We're going to be here when you come back. Hey, I know we're going to have a little bit of a strange segue coming up right now between holiday movies like

The Holiday, and Pretty Woman. But trust me, there's more on the other side of this. Don't go away. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. Sarah Burke and Caitlin Green will be right back.

We are so excited to welcome another new sponsor, our friends at Cove Soda. Have I pestered Cove enough to come and join us here at the Jan Arden Podcast? I love them so much. They are Canadian, first of all. They are a natural, certified organic, zero sugar soda, which includes, get this, one big

Billion probiotics. I kind of sounded like Dr. Evil there, didn't I? But seriously, you can get 80% of your daily vitamin C in just one can. Cove Soda is on a mission to promote gut health for all, and you still get to have a delicious treat

while putting a gut-friendly, guilt-free drink in your body. Cove Soda is available in 12 delicious flavors all over North America. So for our American friends, you can find it. They've got this fruity lineup that's fantastic. I drink those all the time. They've got the classic lineup if you like

A cola or a cream soda, root beer, yes indeedy. And they've got their limited edition summer flavor, which will take you right back to the second grade. You got to try the ice pop one. Head to janardenpod.com to find out where the closest place to you is where you can go and buy Cove. Go right now. Welcome back. Jan Arden podcast and show. Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke.

I promised you guys to be talking about these Bachelorette, the Bachelor series, the Bachelor in particular series.

They're calling it the Golden Bachelor. So tell us everything, Caitlin. So the Golden Bachelor was this idea to kind of like revamp the Bachelor, Bachelorette franchise because honestly, it's been lagging. So they found this guy. His name's Gary Turner and he's in his 70s and he's a widower and he was looking for love and he went on this show and he was cast alongside a variety of single women all his age.

And so these are women who either never married or were divorced or were widows themselves. And he recently, spoiler alert to anyone who hasn't seen the finale yet, chose his golden bachelorette, I suppose. And that's a woman named Teresa. So they're both in their 70s. And they're going to be getting married in an ABC primetime special scheduled for the first week in January. It's going to be a live event called The Golden Wedding. This show was such a ratings hit.

that they immediately launched into a live wedding special for the two of them. One way to get your wedding paid for. I was just going to say, pretty nice. Truly. And I mean, at that age, like they're on a fixed income, everyone. So I mean, if ABC is going to pay for your wedding, then take it. So I think this speaks to the fact that

aging is so different now than it was. And there's a huge dating pool for people who are older and they are not just spending the rest of their time, you know, knitting and playing crokinole or whatever. They're like, they're out there, they're sexually active, they're dating and they want to meet people. So I liked this and it was like, people wanted to watch it. And also the cool thing about this show is that the women are,

actually became friends. There wasn't so much of this competition amongst the women and cattiness. They were all much more measured and celebratory of one another. And I think that obviously speaks to the difference in women when they're in their 20s and then obviously when you're in your 70s.

It was cool. It felt like there was a lot more female friendship on the show. And I think that has been a huge missing piece and why the ratings were really dropping for the other show is like pitting people against each other is decreasingly fun to watch. Although I feel like the Bachelor followers are in the Bachelorette followers are so loyal that they watch anyway, but.

My question is how young or old, like what was the cutoff for becoming a golden bachelor or bachelorette? I think they had to be over the age of 60. Well, I'm really glad that the franchise didn't give us those typical scenarios that we kind of get used to with older men, you know, that grow old, you know, gracefully with the graying temples and that the women were in their 30s and 40s so that the age disparity was less

I'm glad that it was sort of an equal playing field. And getting to your point of the women befriending each other, supporting each other, and kind of forging these friendships, going back to what I was talking about of learning how to become a person in your 20s and making those mistakes, I think you are absolutely a more grounded, rounded person

that has had a ton of experiences and you know it's going to be a much more pleasant experience for you as a person to have some joy and happiness and not be contentious. That's great to see. I'm loving being my age. I like my face. I like my body more. I like how I'm thinking more. So I'm glad to hear that the franchise did experience the success offensively

Obviously, the audience reflected that. And I'm wondering what...

If there's any statistics on the age groups that were watching, I mean, Sarah just said maybe the franchise would work no matter what they threw at them. But you were saying, Caitlin, that it was lagging, that it was really suffering. It has been. It's been, you know, it's still this like stalwart of reality television for sure. It's just it hasn't felt like it was part of pop culture in the same way as some of the other reality TV shows have become these huge pop culture moments that are

are everywhere and the stars of their shows become celebrities. Like it was just another like season of The Bachelor. And so I think that they had to revamp it. And so it was a hit for them, even if people tuned in out of curiosity. And then I think it became comfort viewing a little bit more so than in past seasons.

And also people want something different. I mean, they've been doing that show for so long. That's a creative spin. It's nice. Yeah. An ABC spokesperson said that 3.83 rating among adults 50 and over this season outperforming ratings from the same demographic for the others, the Bachelor and the Bachelorette.

That's a pretty good rating. It's also who's watching primetime television. It's also who's watching like TV in that way. So why not cater to your own audience? It's good business, frankly. Well, television seems to be on the edge of the unknown as far as are people going to continue to keep watching network style television? And I know CBC just laid off

four or five or 600 employees are cutting their programming and

I think there'll be a lot of people listening today that will be going, that's right. It should be. It's, it's, you know, money that should be spent somewhere else. And I still feel for people that have been working there for, you know, 15, 20, 25 years, but I think it's coming. I think networks are really struggling to hit that magic content thing because just like what happened in music right around where Napster started,

people could download music files. Music had to make a lot of adjustments. And I think terrestrial television, can we call it that, is now really feeling the pinch of how to get viewers to come back to watching a program every Wednesday night at seven. You see the streamers doing that though. You have to wait for your episodes to come up. Like you can't just watch Apple TV and get all your episodes. I mean, if you're watching the morning show or something with Jennifer Aniston, um,

Unless you're willing to wait that eight, 10 weeks for the whole show to accumulate, you're waiting every Tuesday night. I'm doing that with the Gilded Age right now. I'm like, oh, I've got to wait another week for the episode. Well, yeah, that's the thing. I mean, ultimately, HBO started out as sort of like this groundbreaking, cool content area. And

I mean, sure, they have less now. Like, they have less of those big hits that they were previously synonymous with. But they still do so much cutting edge stuff. Like, they still do the Gilded Age. They still do Succession. You know, they still set the bar really high. The Last of Us? The Last of Us, exactly. I still think this is, like, they have so many more shows, like Hacks and, like, I'm missing a ton. But I think that when you set the bar high for content and you don't just give people...

the same thing over and over again, like a law and order SVU V CSI V fire hall, insert police department, whatever. Like it just becomes like, it's just like plot line salad. Like it's just, it means nothing. And they just find one formula that succeeds and they do it to death. And then they get to blame a bunch of other, uh,

But really, I'm like, but doesn't matter because like I will always watch a good show and and a good show will become like part of culture like in that. And it will change things. And so I think that part of content is still always there. But like there was just so much crap for so long. And it just I don't watch a lot of the shows that I think become very, very formulaic. I'll admit to liking, you know, the first season or two. But after that, I'm like, I don't know.

I can't like stay interested. You're probably talking to the wrong person, but I'm watching the Golden Girls and I laugh so hard. I mean, talking about the Golden Bachelor, the Golden Girls was, you know, the precursor to that kind of thinking. And I think they really surprised themselves in the 80s and 90s with four elderly women living in a condo, you

you know, pooling their money together so that they could live somewhere and not end up in a nursing home. And the funny part is that Bea Arthur and Rue McClanahan, all those girls, they were in their early 50s when they were making that show. I know. So it's like, what in the age? Yeah, that's crazy. And then that makes me think of when Sex and the City first came out. This was like this groundbreaking show about women in New York being single, a more honest look at sex, and just...

kind of working and doing it on your own and not living your life with this goal of the house and the marriage and the kids. I mean, Charlotte was a very like traditional character, but even she broke away from that mold. Anyways, sex in the city is now looking to recreate a reality show around the city. Yeah. Because of ABC success with the golden bachelor, the original creator of sex in the city, Candace Bushnell is pitched a dating show with post menopausal women.

So she said 50 something women are the hottest new dating demographic. And then added like, I should know I'm one of them. And so this show is going to be set up with four real life friends who are seeking love and companionship while living together in a cozy country Chateau. No, this is a throwback to me saying like, this is, they know that this works, right? Like people want to watch that. So this is the golden girls 2.0. And it's a reality show. And it'll say each week, the ladies pick to date a different category of masculinity. Okay.

The show promises, quote, that the women will navigate the immersive dating experience in the love do-over, but in the end, who will really steal their hearts and will our ladies be able to bring back sex to the city? So they're taking these, the guy that they've chosen from the country chateau, and then they're supposed to like continue on with dating them when they go back to their country.

fancy lives in New York. I mean, it's escapism. That is going to be a smash out of the park hit. I really like it. I would watch it. And perhaps these women are not only mature and have life experience, but they're critical thinkers. They're well-read, they're educated, and they're not just going to be these pushovers for men that, you know, when, and this is a generalization, but when I was, you know, young and

If anybody, you know, a guy, a girl showed me the least bit of attention, I was just like, oh my God, somebody likes me or thinks of me. And I think women of this age, I mean, the way that you're talking about how it's set up,

they're not going to just be like, oh, push me over with a feather. Because they'd be like, dude, work, work it, man. Show me what you're made of. Show me your compassion, your empathy. Do you tip, you know, the wait staff? Are you going to open a door for me? I can see it now. Where'd you get this bottle? The dollar store?

Yeah, I mean, it's going to be really interesting. Do you think it'll get off the ground, Caitlin? Or is this just sort of in the development stage? I think so. I think because of the success of The Golden Bachelor, and I think because of the pull that Candice Bushnell has...

Um, and also, I mean, they've revamped sex in the city, the fiction series already, cause they have that show in just like that, which I honestly don't really like. I kind of hate watch it at this point. Terrible, right? It's just bad writing. It's so poorly written anyways. So I think that Candace Bushnell, I feel like she's not into that show and like, but still wants to do something in show business. So I could see this coming together. Um,

I just don't know what network is going to carry it. Cause it's a very, it really depends on the network that's going to carry it for the tone of the show. Like, is this a Bravo reality show? Is it an HBO reality show? Does Netflix make it like, is it prime? Like they all have a different look and feel. And so when I find out if this is picked up, who's picked it up, I think it'll be, I'll be able to say more on it. Like it'll inform more of how I feel on it. Would you watch that Sarah?

Oh, that was a big, big pause. No, I'd probably choose the hockey game over that. Sorry. Okay. Can I ask how dating's going with you? I mean, I'm perpetually single. Caitlin's married with a very chubby, edible, cute baby. And so you're on the front lines. Like, do you want to talk about that for a second? What's happening? I'm our research consultant in dating. Is that what you're telling me? Yeah. Okay.

I've been on a couple dates since I last talked about it here. Okay. And I will say that these guys are so nice. But in my 36-year-old age, I am very quickly finding out that I would rather spend time

on my own than with them sometimes. And it's nothing against them. They're really nice. But if I don't feel it, I don't feel it. Can I ask and just go back a bit to the golf date? Yeah. Because that's a five-hour freaking date. Crazy high stakes. The next one was

12 hours guys that was part of the decision okay so did the golf date turn was the next date then 12 hours so because he lives out of town by like an hour it involves like you know yeah coming into town and especially if you have some cocktails right so I'm thinking about like the drinking thing and I don't want him driving home after and all that right so we first went for a hike and then a little cider tasting which all of that was nice but it could have ended there right and

And then wanted to go for dinner, which we had kind of talked about after golf. But I said, no, golf is enough. You might remember. So that's the only reason that the dinner thing was even still lingering. And then I had been invited to a show. But because dinner had run so late, it was like, oh, do you want to come to this show and see this band with me? So 12 hours later, I was like, can you go home now? You're so nice, but you have to go home now.

Did he think he thought he was staying over? I definitely considered all of that before this even happened. And I was like, no, two dates. Absolutely not. Right? Like, I just got myself into that headspace before I even went out. Although, I will say, if I'm feeling like an extreme spark, I think I might treat that differently. There was no spark for me. So...

Yeah. So have you ever been in situations like this with other boyfriends where that spark isn't there initially? Because the one thing that women in particular are fed and maybe men are too,

is that love at first sight, love at first sight. The spark I knew when I saw him across the room or I saw her across the room, lesbians move in that afternoon. So if you were a lesbian, the golf date would have been absolutely fantastic, but then you would have went and got your stuff and you would have moved in. It's so true though. And to all my lesbian friends out there, uh,

you know, it's true. You know, it's true. So is the spark ever going to be there or is that it now for golf guy? Sorry. If you're listening, golf guy, uh,

Is that it now? Like two dates? How many hours do you know to feel like I want to kiss your face so hard? I think after two dates, if I'm not feeling like obsessed to have a kiss, that little bit of chemistry, then there doesn't need to be another date, right? I did let him off the hook. My mother thought I was really mean, but I was over all the text messaging. When we don't know each other this well, there's no reason why you need to tell me

every hour of your day. I'm a busy girl. And eventually, after not responding for a couple messages, you know, our Jan Arden podcast deadlines are at the end of the week. And I was like, busy. I was busy. When I finally responded, I said, I would appreciate a little space and I will contact you if I would like to do anything further. So...

And then the heartbreaking part for me is, is that he likes you a lot. He did say he liked me. Yeah. I know. And so whenever you have that unrequited, you know, maybe it's not this massive in love thing, but it is, you're always putting yourself out there and it is difficult. It's difficult to find that.

someone that feels the same way that you feel about them. And I feel for him. Golf guy, that's what we're going to call you. I feel for you. He was looking for long-term fun, not short-term fun. I can tell you that. And he needs to fix the Tinder profile. And that's what he said. He was lying. It became very clear that he was not looking for short-term fun.

He didn't expect to kind of start falling for you. So I feel for both parties. I also find that to be like an interesting thing that you then state on your dating profiles. Like, how do you know? Because I remember thinking when I got into situations with people, if I had to categorize what I was looking for at the beginning, it might be very different than how things ended up. So I always just feel like people...

People should say that. Like maybe there's been an update since you were on dating apps. I was never on a dating app. Okay. You've never been on one. So the, there is actually a way to categorize it as short term open to long. Like they give you those options now, but just can't everyone just be on the dating app and say they're single and you'll decide based on the person. Cause it's like really about the person. That's the thing. It's like,

when I was like, I just got out of a very long-term relationship and then I started dating Kyle. We had known each other socially and I was very like, good time, not a long time. And I remember so many girlfriends who are now married to the guy where they said, good time, not a long time about them. And now they're married and have children. And like,

if you had to tick a box at the beginning, you would have been like, Oh, I'm in this for some short term fun. But like, does that not then get into people's heads? Then, then there's a miscommunication at the jump where the guy's like, well, I thought you were looking for short term fun. You took the short term fun box. It's like, but everyone just valid. Everyone is open to anything. If you like the person enough, that's everything about dating. Like as I mean, I've told so many friends that they're like, Oh, he's been really busy with work. He's been blah, blah, blah. I don't care how busy when someone likes you, they will fly across the country.

Like when someone likes you, they make time for you. If I really want to see someone again, I will make it known. I really will. You prioritize it because you want to do it. But you've got to give him a little bit of credit for risking...

putting himself out there. Do you want me to put you in touch with him? No, I'm just being the devil's advocate because in order to do that, in order to put yourself out there and text and stuff, and yes, you do have to take those social cues. It is kind of great to play it cool. I was like, read the room. Okay. So, but we're not going on another date, correct? Yeah. Yeah, we're not. Does he know that now? Well, he hasn't messaged since, so I think so. Okay.

So why can't you just say, I'm not feeling it. I'm not interested in you that way. You are a great guy without being condescending or patronizing. You know, it's a grown man. You don't have to say it's not you. It's me. Like none of that shit. Like just say, you know, I had a great time. Just not, I'm not feeling it. Thank you so much. And I hope you find somebody great that can be

reciprocate this. Like right now, this sounds vague. And is that not a type of ghosting? Like, I don't know. I'm 61 living in a house with a small dog. When did you last go out with him? Because there's been two fellas that I've gone on some dates with, but the firefighter guy was a

a month ago now. Okay, that's stale. Like he should know what's done. Yeah. As I was like saying to him, I'd appreciate some space. I said, maybe we can grab a holiday drink or something in a couple weeks. I will message you if I'm interested. So I made it very clear. And that was because I felt like, you know, after two great dates, the dates were really nice dates.

It was just the messaging that turned this. So like it was the too much messaging. That's what got me. And I was like, red flag, red flag, red flag. Got to go. Yeah. It's not your vibe. Like you were just like, I need you to be like not quite so available and like urgently available. So much has to match. Like your communication styles have to match. Because like, again, like when Kyle and I first started dating, this was like the days of BBM, like Blackberry Messenger. And we just were glued to our phones. We messaged each other all

All the time. And I'm thinking back to my boyfriend before Kyle, we went out on our first date. We went out for like a hilarious day date that wound up being funny for a bunch of reasons, like inside joke stuff, like a good start. And then I got home and he called me two hours later and said, do you want to meet for dinner and drinks like the same day?

And we did. And I feel like when I've had these experiences that they were like, yeah, it was a lot, but it was like the right amount of a lot. And so those red flags don't go up in the same way. And then there were other people where, yeah, it was like a measured start and it looks totally fine on the surface, but it was just, it was missing that like chemistry that you just can't, you can't

You can't put into words. You know, I've just realized something in this discussion. So the fellow I went on a first date with a week ago, he asked me, would you like to go out again? Right. Which is a normal question to ask after a first date. And I gave him like a run around. And based on the questions, Sarah Burke. Well, based on what Jan was just saying, I'm like realizing it, but it's always about not wanting to hurt someone's feelings. Right. Give me a little credit. But I think, I think you're doing well.

the absolute opposite of what you think you're doing. It's true. It's true. And I did say to him, I'm not really up for anything serious right now.

That's what I said to him. See, then guys infer other things. And during this discussion, I've realized that like, that guy was so nice and I could see myself like hanging out with him again as a friend, but I couldn't see the dating. And maybe being nude. Not being nude. I can't see the nude. All right. Can't see the nude. Can't see the nude. Yeah, here we are. Anyway, you've given me some things to think about. I am so not the person. Yeah.

I want to do away with the thing that says short-term, long-term, whatever. It should just say single currently. The only thing you should have to state is if you're in one of those polyamorous relationships and that drives me nuts. Oh, there's so many of those on the dating apps. Why? Ethical non-monogamous, right? That's a whole thing. It says in caps lock letters, E-N-M. And I definitely had to Google it. At the beginning, I was like, what does this mean? Tell the listeners E-N-M. What does it mean? Ethical non-monogamy.

So you're in an open relationship essentially. But how are you ever going to fact check that, right? How are you ever going to find out how much the other person's significant other knows? Are you going to ask for their phone number and then be like, I need to text and check with your girlfriend? There's also the types that are looking to add a layer of spice to their current relationship. There's all of those things.

You should have to ask someone that at a bar. Do they mean chips and dip? I mean, they might mean dip. Oh, I'm getting a little lost here. If you've just joined us, we're coming to the end of our podcast, but we were talking about holiday movies. And we could go on and on about this. We're going to keep track of Caitlin's married life with her cuter than cute child and her very handsome husband. We're going to keep tabs on Sarah Burt because hopefully as this podcast continues,

goes forward, we're going to see Sarah in a very reciprocated, like a relationship where there's kissing going on and there's spark. And Sarah's going to be like, oh, I can't work on the podcast anymore because-

We're moving to Portugal. And I'll be mad, but Caitlin and I will try and go forward. I think a third date is a good goal to have in mind. Let's just try and make it to a third date. Okay. Well, listen, if you've got dating stories you want to talk to us about, I know nobody interacts with us. We've begged people to go at Jan Arden Pod on all the formats, the Twitter, the X, the Instagram, the TikTok. Are we on TikTok? No, we're not.

We should get a TikTok page. Not yet. But listen, if you do want to talk to us or send us a voicemail, we're still open to that. And if you've got dating quandaries, look at the advice we doled out today. That wasn't just second-rate advice. That was excellent. If you have some holiday movies you'd like to share with us, we still have two weeks, two and a half weeks leading up to Christmas. So let's get on it. And I'm off next week. And I'm sorry about your sweater. I'm looking forward to taking it off and breathing. Putting the sweat in sweater.

Well, that's all from us. You've been listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. Happy holidays. Hit that subscribe button. You'll find us week after week without even looking. We'll show up in your mailbox. You can rate us too. That helps people find us. But thank you, thank you, thank you, listeners. We appreciate you more than you know. If we could each give you a hug and an intact insurance policy to insure your Santa dolls, we would. Look after yourselves, and there's still time to send us a gift. We'll talk to you soon. Toodle-oo-doo-doo.

This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.