Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hello everyone, welcome to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I am Jan Arden. This is a very special day. Yes, it is. Drumroll. Yeah, it's me. Caitlin Green. Green, Green is back, back, back on the show, show from Matt Lat, Lat, Late, Late. Hello, Caitlin. Hello. How does it feel? Hello.
Weird and wonderful? Yeah, it feels really good, I would say. But weird in the sense that I found for this and for my morning show work at CHUM, it's like riding a bike, even though I can't actually do that. So maybe I need another one. Another analogy, please. It's like eating a sandwich. Exactly. Exactly.
you've been like, I've been doing it for so long that it is second nature to just sort of like hop back into things. Yeah. It's a relief because you take off so much time and you spend a year of your life only really talking to a baby and about a baby that you wonder if you can do the adult world thing again. But thankfully, I can't. So how's that been? Young Will is
in daycare when you're going to work in the morning. Luckily, you have a very cool job. You're kind of off really early. Yeah. And home, not too bad. It's not too bad of a day. I can get home pretty early. And he is there. He could be there for as long as 8, 8.30 in the morning until 5 p.m.
But I usually, because I miss him a bit right now, I pick him up a little early. So I'm usually getting him at around 3.30 or 4. But they do want him to stay there and get used to it and fall into the rhythm of their schedule. But he loves it. He does, hey? He loves it. They said he's transitioned well. He's just...
He's very, very into playing with other kids and he loves all the stimulation, all the new toys, all the activities they do, the outings. Is he walking? Not yet, almost. He wants to. Almost walking. Man alive. Well, one thing that you do realize is how fast...
like a year goes. It is like a flash. Like when you talk about going back to chum and just fitting yourself right in, like you never left, like literally you were there the night before you got up that morning, you went back to work and it is very perfunctory. You're just doing it. It's like breathing. You don't even realize, you know, probably not a lot has changed really with, with the morning show. Um,
they're locked and loaded into their routines and you just sort of dropped yourself back in. Was it nerve wracking? Did you like, Oh, I think I could retire right now. Or are you just like, no, I'm ready to kick ass. I'm definitely reengaged with my career in like a new way. So it's definitely, it's different. Your perspective is different, but yeah,
it feels really comfortable and natural and you almost have more of a drive and I think a lot of parents say that but you have more of a drive to succeed to find the right fit for you career-wise to make more money because everything you do now is in support of this is exponentially more expensive that and you're like I want you know you want your child to grow up feeling secure like
We start a RESP for him. We're paying for daycare, all that stuff. So you do have a renewed outlook. But at the same time, because you now have this piece of your life that matters to you so much more than everything else, there is this overwhelming feeling of,
Well, if I also was just hanging out with my baby all day, I'd be fine. I'd be really happy. And you learn that when you're off on leave, which is cool because I was not that way before I had a kid at all. Wow. Well, it stands to reason that you do have a shift in your priorities and what you need to accomplish and that you want Will to have the tools that he needs. And university, imagine by the time he's ready to go to university, imagine how much that's going to be.
He's going to be like, I think I want to be a YouTube star. And I'll say, yeah, that's probably more financially viable actually at this point. What do you need? What do you need? Do you need another computer? Dad and I will get that for you. Yeah. And then you're done. How much is it? 4,700. Great. Here it is.
Have fun with your experiments. So, I mean, it's, it is, it's so hard to imagine him at that age. I know it will come, but to your point about how fast it goes, I remember Roger Ashby, who used to be the longtime morning show host with Marilyn at Chum. When I had Will, he said, you'll hear this from other people, but it really is so true that the days are long, but the years fly. And I,
That is so bang on. The days are long, but the years fly. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a really great way of putting it. Um, how have you changed? Do you think just as far as, I mean, obviously there's physical changes when, when you're, you know, you just kind of morph into this mom and this protector. Um, do you think you are, um,
a stronger person for all of it? Like mentally, physically? Yeah. Because you go through a mental weakening, or at least I did. Like I got postpartum. I mean, full disclosure, I had postpartum depression, like pretty bad. But I already had a therapist because I
of our previous loss and I've been working with her for such a long time she knew me so well and when you've had that previous traumatic loss you are at a higher risk for for um postpartum and so you're already dealing with anxiety and some some mood stuff around being pregnant
And so thankfully that was already part of the discussion. I already had a mental health professional who I was checking in with. All those pieces were set up in support of kind of thriving as you start into the maternity leave journey. And so it took a few months for me to go like, I'm still feeling kind of overwhelmed and crappy all the time. And it was getting worse. The anxiety was getting worse. So I started an antidepressant and that was in like November and
So now I'll say that on the other side of that, two things clicked in. I started on that antidepressant, loved it. I mean, it had three weeks of like on and off side effects, but thankfully nothing bad. So it was the right one for me. A lot of times it takes quite a few trials. Exactly. It takes a few stabs to get it, you know, to get the right medication and the right dosage. So for you guys that are listening to Caitlin right now, don't give up. If you've
started on something and you're like, this isn't helping me at all. I hate it. Make sure your doctor is in the loop of that journey so that they can adjust and try you on different things. It's worth pursuing. I mean, look at you. You've said it's made such a difference. It is. So that fell into place. I felt better. I personally felt better. This is just me. This is not going to necessarily be for everybody, but I felt better within weeks. And I
I just, it was the right time. It was the right medication, the right dose. And then also we decided to do sleep training with Will because none of us were sleeping. So that took us until we were- Can I join in on that? Yeah, you should. Everyone could use it. So that was like January that we did that after we got back from Christmas holidays. And then once that schedule fell into place and everyone in the house is like sleeping again and you have-
a nap schedule and you have a, and all of a sudden, you know, he goes to bed at six and he's asleep and you get your evenings back to do some stuff. And then you can figure out these are your set nap times. And then everything just started to breathe a little bit. So it was a really hard first few months, like four months were pretty tough. And then I did feel really strong. I felt stronger than ever. I felt happier than ever. I felt really fulfilled.
Still tired, still learning lots of new things. But like, yeah, I felt good. I felt really good. And I still do. How has it affected your relationship with your husband? Do you still feel like husband and wife? Or is there like so many women and men talk about this big shift? Obviously, the pecking order has changed slightly in the family home. And I would think that date night is second to, sorry, our son needs or my son needs some stuff right now.
So yeah, they talk about that and trying to find that place with your relationship. You fell in love with this man, you started down this life. And I would imagine there's some pretty heavy lifting to do as far as finding space for your significant other. Yeah. Again, right away, I was like, Oh, I really miss Kyle. You know, I really, I miss our time together, our time alone together. And I
I think as time goes on, you, again, you get used to your new life a little bit more and you become, at least for me, increasingly obsessed with the baby. So, cause you're, you're, and both of us did cause it's just, they get cuter. You get to know them. They start to, they start to do baby. Will is fricking cute. He's, he's a million percent cute. I think that's one of the cutest babies I've ever seen.
I mean, we really like them. But like, so yeah, you get to know them. You get to know their little personality. They interact with you. They laugh at your stuff. They want you to hold them. They reach out for you. When all those things start to happen and it takes time, then...
we both just became so obsessed with him and making him happy and doing stuff with him that you don't feel like there's this piece missing anymore. It's like a new piece has popped up and it's become important. You still look at, you still need time away. And I think we've been good at finding time to be together, but yeah, you start to miss him. And then now it's like, he's a daycare and I'm like, I miss him so much all the time. He's not a baby anymore.
He's not a baby baby. He's going into little tiny boy version. Like that's what blows my mind with my friend's kids that are now having kids, right? Because I'm 60-ish. And, you know, I just remember them being kids. My friend Teresa's kids, you know, and now they're having kids of their own. Maya has two little boys that are so freaking cute as well.
And I'm just like, what is going on? I know. It's wild. The passage of time. But everyone feels the same way about it. And COVID did something to time. Yes.
I don't know what, Caitlin, but if you're just joining us, Caitlin Green is back and we are just catching up to what she's been doing and their little boy and going back to work again with Chum and the radio, the morning show. But just how time has warped. Like I'm still, something happened during COVID with me. Monday would hit and I'd be like, oh my God, it's Monday again. It was Friday.
It was like, it was just Monday, Friday. Like it was, it was Saturday, Wednesday. Like there was just things happening. And everyone I talked to felt that way about a real differentiation with time before COVID. And I really, I'm still struggling with how quickly it's going. I don't know. How quickly it's going, but then during certain periods of time, how little was happening.
So it's like time is flying, but very little was happening. I was like, does it feel like the years are going by quickly? Are they never ending? Has everything flattened or folded in on itself? Like, I don't know what it is, but I think, look, given the abrupt changes we all had to go through at once to how we lived our, we're living our lives. Like, of course, we're still just figuring out how this all even feels for us emotionally. Right.
like the hangover from COVID is real. And then you throw in people who had kids or retired or, you know, their kids go off to university or whatever, big life events, big life events. Right. So then it's like, Oh my gosh, or, or separated or got into a new relationship. And it's like, what it like, it does, it does your head in. So that was another thing too. I found with like the transition into being a parent, it's like, you really have to give yourself a lot of time and space to process things. You cannot be impatient. Um,
And that's just good advice anytime in life. We've got a lot to talk about today. We actually do. We're now, we've got stuff. So don't go away. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I'm here with Caitlin Green. Sarah Burke is in Greece on a little holiday, but we will have news about her as well. So don't despair. We are going forward bigger and better than ever. We're going to be right back after this short pause. Don't go away.
Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. It is Caitlin Greenday, the official Caitlin Greenday. She's back. Not Greenday the band, Caitlin Greenday.
The person. Because, you know, people are driving in their vans are going, oh my God, she's having green day on. No, that's not what I said. Lots going on in September, which is where we are. The summer blew by. I really can't believe. We officially have another few weeks of summer because September the 20th is the end of summer and the beginning of fall. But I noticed at Starbucks, fall flavors are back. Yes. Pumpkin spice was back. Are you happy about it? I...
I love fall. I am one of these people who really enjoys it as a season. Mind you, I'm not one to kick summer out early. So I'm happy for a lengthy summer. But because I don't mind fall, there is something cozy about it. I do sort of like when I see the pumpkins pop up, which is funny, though, even though I'm a holiday, I'm a Starbucks holiday drink girl. I like the sugar cookie oat latte. I don't opt in for pumpkin spice anything really. But yeah.
I just like what it means. And you know what else it means? It means back to school, which I always find fun. And it means the film festival for TIFF. What are your, some of your back to school memories? And I've never been to TIFF. We're going to, I want to talk about that too, because I really would love to go. So back to school, I know I have really specific memories, but what, what do you recall? Only child, were you spoiled rotten? Did you get all the clothes that you wanted? Did you get the stuff and...
Get packed off. I did get some clothes. I love the fashion. Like I love picking my first day of school out. Even as a little kid. Oh my gosh. The second, like the second that I could pick outfits, I had my first week all set up like my book bag. Oh, and how much fun was shopping for school supplies? It was fun. I loved that.
I mean, so that was shopping was a big deal for me. I liked all that planning. I liked organizing. I loved organizing my desk in class, like seeing who you were going to be seated next to. That stuff was fun for me. Was it like that for you? Well, I think we're talking two different worlds here. I mean, there's a generational thing for sure. But I also went to a small rural school. So the classes were tiny.
Like if we had 17, 18 kids in every class, that was a big class. Style was not of any consequence whatsoever. I did get a new outfit from the Calgary Co-op because that was the only place to get clothes. You could, you know, pick up your saddle polish and you could get some corduroys.
Some Howick corduroys. And I just remember having bell bottoms and I remember having a corduroy shirt jacket that I just thought was the greatest thing in the world. I had some clogs, but I had a lot of my brother's hand-me-downs too, like a lot of his old jeans and
We didn't care. Everyone smelled like horse shit. And I don't mean the horse shit campaign. The last family that got on our bus, they were chicken farmers, the youngs.
And those kids all had chores in the morning. They literally ran out like Russian dolls. It was like the smallest child followed by the second smallest and the third, fourth. They were just... And then William, the very tallest boy, would come running out for the bus at the end because they had stuff to do at six o'clock in the morning. But everyone always kind of smelled like poo. But we all did. We all did. It was just...
I don't know where the teachers came from. I still stay in touch with my art phys ed teacher. Her name is Pam DeNice. Hello, Pam DeNice. I know you listen to this podcast.
She's in Boston with her husband, Dave. She's a grandmother now. I didn't realize that when I was 17 years old, Pam was only 22. That's crazy. So she was a kid teaching. She goes, Jan, I didn't know what I was doing. I was right out of university. And Dave moved up to Canada. He was working for, I think it was Coca-Cola maybe he was working for. I don't know. Dave, if I've got that wrong, forgive me. And here was this kid teaching us.
But we've stayed in touch all these years. That's so nice. Yeah, it really is. But yeah, I know I'm rambling about back to school, but it was...
Yeah, school supplies. We didn't have a lot of money, but I remember having the stuff that we needed, but I always used the binder from the year before. I didn't have a big thing of pencil crayons or stuff. I think I was always borrowing pencils or pens from other kids, and I was a terrible student. Were you? Yes. Oh, we've talked about this, but we have talked about this before. I'm surprised I could read and write. I mean, I loved reading, thank God. Both my parents were avid readers. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. But I loved school, Caitlin. I loved going. I love the social aspect of it. I love the extra, the, the, the extramural sports. And, um, I just, I loved it. I loved all of it. I love the kids. I loved going. I loved parts of it. I was anxious as a child. So I found some of the socializing aspects, a little bit anxiety producing for me, but I,
I loved the experience and I loved the physical environment. Like I liked going into gym class, going into the big equipment room and then pulling out all the fun toys for gym. And I loved, you know, when we had like French class in like a portable, like even though the portables in retrospect were kind of gross, I still got a kick of like going outside, running in the snow across to the portable for French class. And those types of things, I feel like I liked a lot of the physical environment
like tactile memories, the smell of the library, like reading, reading. I remember reading like horror books, but they were for kids. They were kids horror books. It was like goosebumps and stuff, but we weren't supposed to read it until we were in a certain grade. So I would like sneak over into the older kids grades, part of the library to read goosebumps. And it was, you know, those things I remember, I found some of the like socializing with other kids to be
a bit challenging because I think being an only child, I found some of the dynamics confusing because they all obviously grew up in households with like multiple, you know, siblings and everything. Yeah. So I talked about it with other only children and some of us did find that it was like,
hard to navigate, I suppose. And you didn't have those built-in playmates at home. Did you have summer holiday friends and then you didn't see them in school? Because I had summer holiday friends that I played with all summer. And then when school started, we didn't talk. We didn't
And I don't know why to this day, I think about that a lot. And I think about, I don't want to name names, but I remember their names vividly. And I remember getting back to class and kind of seeing them going down the hallway and this amazing summer that we had. And then we were back into our lives and back in. And this is a school with, there was 42 kids in my entire grade.
Yeah, I was going to say, so you were, you went to the same school and you would be closer friends in the summer and then school came around and you weren't really socializing the same? No. Huh, that's interesting. Yeah, that kind of breaks my heart now that I think about that. I haven't thought about that for 40 years, to tell you the truth, just, just this second. I know that there were people who had friends at camp. I never, I wasn't a big summer camp kid, but I had friends who would go away to summer camps and they had their camp friends and then they would come back to the, to, you know, the city and then they had their regular friends in school. Yeah.
And I mean, I had a neighbor who I was really close with and she went, always went to different schools than I did. And so we would see each other more in the summer. Sometimes she was one of my closest friends. Um, but no, I mostly spent time because I was a city kid and we all grew up in the same neighborhood and you were fed to schools based on where you lived. Everybody was just a few neighborhood kids. Yeah. I was always with you.
You were always with kind of a similar group and somebody was always sort of around and they were usually only a few blocks away and you would go to the same school as them. And so that part was nice. Um, but yeah, Oh, when I went away to Prince Edward Island, cause my father's from there, I did have, uh, friends on the Island when I would go every summer for vacation that I would see in PEI, my two cousins, um,
I spent a lot of time with. And then my dad's close friend had two daughters who were close in age to me and I loved seeing them. And they had this big, beautiful property with huge fields and PEI and like an outdoor playhouse. And we'd go outside and as a city kid, getting to spend time outside on the beach, fantastical seeing snakes, seeing chickens like that was, I loved it.
I was scared of it, but I loved it. No, those are really indelible memories. Any kind of nature memory, space, especially if you're raised in an urban area. You know, summertime is that very rare time where your family packs you up in a car and you go to a lake or you go to a place with trees or you sit in front of a campfire. Like I have very visceral memories about just staring at a fire and having a wiener crammed onto the end of a willow stick that my dad carved a point to.
and you know getting instructions no you're holding it too low you're burning it turn it over like a con this constant instruction but i don't blame them because anyway but it's it is the physical space that you inhabit as a kid i find it's very imprinted on me personally so i like hearing that it is for you too because you can still go back to all those oh smells and touches and all that in a second do you remember your high school locker the number or the combination to the lock
Nope, not at all. There's nothing there for me either. I would frequently remember my law combination during the school year.
Okay. Great.
This is going to hit some nerves with you guys. We'll be right back. Caitlin Green is back with us today and it's a great day. Don't go away. We'll be right back.
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Welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. Hi, everyone. It's back to school time. It's September. It's fall. It's new Starbucks flavors. It's my dog, Poppy, saying hello. He heard me singing and he responded in kind. Thank you, Poppy. Caitlin Green has joined us. She has been on mat leave.
Young Will is in daycare some of the time, and she's back at the morning show at CHUM, if you haven't tuned in there for a while. We were just talking about going back to school memories, which are bittersweet to think about, to be honest. They really are. And I've had so many friends that I went to school with die.
I've had so many school friends pass away. And every year you're like, oh yeah, he had a massive aneurysm or they had cancer. And I'm like, are you kidding me? And so when you go to a really, really small school, those little stories travel to you fast. Anyway, I'm not going to dwell on that. We're going to just go right to friends. You sent me this really great
I don't know what it was pertaining to. I'm going to leave it with you because it was types of friends that you have in your life. So I'm going to let you expand on that. Yeah. So it's basically that they're categorizing them as the five different friends that everybody needs. And I guess they sort of think that this is this would fully flush out, fully round out your friend group. Okay. Walk me through them.
Yeah. So they're kind of breaking it down. So I want to start with work friends. Okay. I think these are increasingly important as you get older because of how much time you spend at work, because your free time dwindles. And so when you don't have any friends at work, I think work just feels worse. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You have to have an ally in the office or...
I mean, on the construction site at the school that you work in, I would consider my bandmates friends. I don't go to an office, but I see them on the road or the bus. So yeah, I can relate to that. You have to have allies. Yeah.
Yeah. And think of how close you are with Chris, your tour manager. Oh, 19 years we've worked together this week. And how would you make it through these tours and these moments and all this? You wouldn't. You wouldn't, right? And it's the same way with me on the morning show. You know, if I didn't like going into the room with the people that you work with, or at least some of them, you're not going to enjoy it. And then
It's nice to have people to bounce things off of who are still, who are in your same industry, you know, like even if they're not on the same show as you, like I became really good friends with Meredith Shaw and you know, we, we have dinners together and we get to talk about the industry and I can talk to her about stuff. She can talk to me about stuff and it's just, it's really nice. So I would say work friends, you just get a lot of support from them and, uh, and they're just, they're going to be able to know about everything that you're dealing with in the office. And then that way you save your, your partner or your friends from having to hear about all of your work.
gossip when they really don't care you can like vent about it to those people uh and then close friends obviously this is this is an obvious one everybody needs close friends um so but it says you know you've only got room for about a handful of those people and people who've been with you through ups and downs people who you know that you can always call there's no such thing as too much information and they can keep your secrets and sometimes I feel like people who you can go for long periods of time without seeing in person but when you do it's like you haven't absolutely
Yeah. Absolutely. Sometimes, you know, with COVID, a lot of us found ourselves not seeing people or kids or grandparents or sometimes for two years, you know, two, three years. But there's friends that I haven't seen for six, seven, eight years. My friend, Connie and John, my friends from Nashville hadn't seen them in seven or eight years. And they came up and it was just like nothing had ever happened. We picked up where we left off.
It was difficult too, because they were friends from kind of a big breakup, like a more or less a divorce in my life. And, you know, everyone's wondering, you know, am I going to have
any connection with these friends, like who's getting the friends. So a lot of you out there listening are probably thinking you've lost friends through a divorce and that's hard sometimes. So that was joyful for me to take them around. We ended up writing a Christmas song together. Connie and John are both really A-list Nashville writers. Yeah.
And, um, so we wrote this crazy, crazy Christmas song, but yeah. What's it called? Can you tell us or is it a secret? I think, I think it's called cheers to you. Cheers to me.
Okay. I like that. Yeah. And the opening line is lumpy gravy. So that's all I'm going to tell you right now. I already like it. But yeah, close friends and to have a friend, you must be a friend. And, and, you know, I know there are people listening that feel like they don't have a close friend.
I, sometimes that circumstances, sometimes that is, uh, relationships breaking up. Sometimes that's family stuff. But I think at the end of the day, you have to look at what a friendship is and what it means and that you do have to bend a little and that you do have to, uh, let things go. Like you, no one is going to step into a position and fulfill every one of your needs.
a friend is not going to, they're not responsible for your happiness. Let me say that. Okay, let's move on. So that's close friends. Well, to that point is that that kind of speaks to the same chapter of life friends. So these people may not be close friends, but they're people who are going through things like parenthood or divorce or, or being single at a certain age or being at a certain stage of your career or from the same background or who knows. But it's,
it's very, very reflective to your age. And it means to your kind of previous point about these close friends is that like, you know, you have to be understanding, give them a lot of room because you may, you may have periods where you're not as close overall, but then you're going to come back together. And that's why these stage of life friends I find are really important because even if you're not really, really close with them, if your close friends say don't have, I'm just thinking of myself, say that your close friends don't have young children. Yeah.
And then you make a bunch of friends who are new moms. That's your new stage of life friend that's going to get you through socializing. You're going to talk to them about what that's like. And it takes some of the burden off of your other friends who maybe just aren't there. And that way you're not as hard on them. You're not like, they're not checking in on me. You're like, they don't understand what I'm talking about. It's like you kind of have to flush your friend group out.
Don't judge me, but I have vegan friends. Yeah, exactly. And I'm not kidding you. I have vegan friends and I have sober friends too. I have people that are in my life. They're still kind of friends with my other friends. Like I'm not saying there's a whole separate thing, but there is a definite little...
wall that I step over, especially with my vegan friends going out for vegan dinners or talking about different animal things that are going on or different products that are out there. And cause I don't want to wear my friends out with my plant-based stuff sometimes. Cause especially when you walk into it new, it's like, Oh my God, I'm going to kill you, Jan. Just feed us a fucking chicken in a pot and shut up.
And sobriety too, people that used to drink and don't drink anymore. That has been of great value to me. Although every one of my close friends and my work friends has been endlessly supportive, but to have someone who's been through, oh yeah, I quit drinking three years ago. And it's been nice for me to be supportive to people that have only been like sober for a year. Anyway, I totally relate to that.
same chapter of life friends. And, and, and I love introducing new friends to my old friends. And I love that combination of having a dinner together with like, say eight people that, Oh, I, Jan's talked so much about you and I've heard about you and it's so great. And it would be like you walking in and meeting, you know, Lisa and Bev or coming and hanging out and having dinner. Um, or, you know, I, I just, I think those are really important, especially as you get older.
Yeah. One day I want to meet Nigel. He's my request. We absolutely will. I keep saying that he's got to come and stay in my condo in Toronto.
Um, but Cynthia met Nigel, you know, and she really got such a kick out of him. They, at one point, Caitlin, I was sitting at the table. We were on the, this beautiful rooftop in New York city. We'd met Nigel down there. He was on a work trip. Cynthia and I just flew down there, booked a hotel in Times Square. Well, at one point I was like a tennis match watching Nigel and Cynthia talk about things. A, I'd never heard Cynthia talk about and B, never heard Nigel talk about in my life.
And they just brought this out in each other and they had this real liberation, this, um, and I said to them both afterwards, I said, I am, I ain't heard none of these stories. So that was a really interesting thing. And they really, they,
They really hit it off. I love that. I do. I love when I get to introduce friends and I love when I get to meet people who I've heard so much about in real life. It's a really cool moment. And you never know how those people are then going to become maybe, maybe that person you've just met becomes a new same chapter of life friend. Yeah. The other one here is friends of convenience. Oh God, this was interesting to me.
You find yourself spending a lot of time with say like a neighbor or someone with a common interest or hobby. So this is just this, you just live next door to this person and you see them a lot and you ask them for favors or they ask you for favors just because, Hey, water my plants while I'm away. Would you mind? Or could you bring this package in for me? And it's really convenient. It's really convenient to say we're both sitting on our front porch at the same time. Oh, why don't we sit on the same front porch and you know, have a glass, a cup of tea or a
So that ends up happening. I have my friend down the road. I have a couple of friends on my road here. Convenience seems somehow kind of a throwaway and I don't mean it to be like that. My friends on my road are really important to me, but I've never been to the movies. I've never been in their homes to have a cup of coffee. Although I've been invited, I've just never gone.
I should get my shit together. But my friends on the road here are definitely fit that category of...
Do you want us to come and shovel out your driveway? It looks like your gate won't open. Let me come down. Do you need any more wood? Like, or things that I can do for them? Can you watch the dog? Can you come down here? I've got a package that I'm waiting for outside the gate and I'll go down and chuck it over the fence for them. Yeah. So it's not so much that it's like a friends of convenience, like, oh, I don't need them. It's that it is literally convenient to be friends with these people because they're at your kid's swim class or they live next to you.
Last minute, I just want to quickly touch on lifelong friends. I mean, it goes without saying everybody wants these. They could be close friends of yours, but they might not be. You've known them all your life. That's really what it is. And you have this depth of understanding because you have the same shared experiences and background from childhood. And it's so formative, those things. My friend Teresa remembers things that are so lost to me. I'm like, did I? She's
She goes, yes. And then your parents took us thing and you had that bicycle and we went this and you did that. And I'm like, I don't remember any of that. So when someone can take over your memory for you and fill in gaps for you, that's really important as well. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast and show. Caitlin Green is back with us from a 10 year break. That's what it seemed like to me. And Sarah Burke is on holidays in Greece.
And anyway, at some point, we're all going to be in the same room. I promise you. Don't go away. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. It's a special day. Back to school. Fall pumpkin spice is here. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to the Jan Arden podcast and show. You might be listening to us on the radio. You might be listening to us at iHeartRadio. You might be listening to us on your favorite streamer. Let me tell you, let me encourage you to hit that subscribe button so that you can just have our podcast pop up. You don't even have to look for us anymore. We're just going to infiltrate your inbox.
Thanks to all our listeners. You guys have been amazing. Thanks for downloading the show. Leave us a review if you care to do so. We would love five stars. We would love 10 stars, but they don't offer that selection. Caitlin Green is back with us and we have been talking about so many cool things today. What made you decide to go on a second date? That's what we're going to talk about. I've never been a huge dater. I feel like I got plastered, made out with somebody and was in a four-year relationship.
I'm not kidding you. I did it all backwards. I never dated. I just found myself in relationships all the time. That's so crazy. I mean, it's not crazy. There are people who just are...
But it is knowing you so well because you're so charming and conversational and you connect with so many people so easily that if I had to take a guess, if someone was like, you've got to bet it all on this personality trait for Jan when she's dating, I would have said that you were great on first dates. In my mind, you would be such a good first date. You'd never be lack of something to say. You'd always be cracking jokes. I just think it would be easy.
And then I just was in the relationship. Like, so maybe I always went to the second date, but I met people through work or... It's so funny, like with men and women with me, it was such a different thing. And I will say this as...
a bisexual person or a fluid person or whatever you want to call it. But when I was younger, you know, if anything going out with a man on a date, it was a very physical kind of experience. And it wasn't like, I didn't want to go to the movies. I don't want you coming over. I don't, we're not going to walk to the zoo or have a lunch together. This is what this is. But it took me a long time to look back and,
At how I made my way through my 20s and 30s, mostly my 40s, I kind of had it sorted out. But I don't, you know, it's funny to think about that dating. And I know that I hurt a lot of feelings. And I feel bad about that. Of, you know, I remember this, this one guy, Mike is just like, I, you know, you really kind of hurt my feelings.
I'd like to... And I did see him quite a bit, actually, Mike, wherever you are. I saw him quite a bit in my 20s and going into my 30s, but that was...
Just, it's just so funny. But yeah, date, like what made you go out with Kyle a second time? You're also just getting to know yourself. That's the thing. Dating is like, you're getting to know other people, but you're getting to know yourself with other people. Yes. And when you're young, you're just, you're, you're still just goop really forming to become a solid person later in life. So, but what did you, okay, wait, I have to ask, what did you find to be the big difference in
in terms of like, were you looking for the same type of qualities in a partner if they were male as if they were female? Or did that become different? I mean, you're at a different life stage too. Yeah, it became so different. And I have had so many great men in my life
But I think what was the discerning, the breaking point for me is that when I got into my late 30s, it took me a long time. Yeah. That I was just like, if I'm going to be in a relationship, I would rather be in a relationship with a woman. Call it emotional, call it whatever you want.
Uh, as far as preference goes, and I have arguments with people all the time, especially my, my very gay people or very straight people that, you know, clearly they want you to make a choice about things. And I really believe for some people, it just is not that for me, it's very person specific. Yeah. And I think, and I know, I don't know where I'm headed as I'm getting older. I've been single now. It'll be eight, it's eight years this January, eight years. That's crazy because-
Yeah. Yeah. You've talked about relationships so much, but I've only known you to be single, but I also know you're referencing from these past serious relationships. So it still feels like it's a part of it, but I've known you to be single for such a long time. I also find that it is a commonality. And no dating, no dating. Yeah. So, you know, do the math.
I have a few friends who have, female friends who have said the same thing as you, where they dated men when they were younger. And then as they got older, they found themselves wanting to be in relationships with women. And so, yes, they had dated men and they'd had, you know, kind of like flings with men, a lot of them, you know, in close succession, but then they hit this age and they were like, I don't know.
my girlfriends are like, my girlfriends are usually girlfriends. So my relationships are, and it's, it's an interesting thing that I feel like comes along to some people later in life. It's like when you're ready to sort of more settle down, you're like, Oh wait, this is who I kind of want to be in the relationship with versus just hook up with. Yes. And, and you just change your whole, your, and I,
predatory is the wrong word, but I feel like prowl would have been a great word. Because in your 20s and 30s, you are dealing in your late teens, whatever, you are dealing with hormones big time. You are dealing with the desire to like meet guys at this or meet girls at that. For me growing up, it was mostly guys because that's just the way my brain was wired up. And so I just...
And as I've gotten older, I'm so less like, oh yeah, I want to hit that. Like, I just don't think like that anymore. But hormones are different. And where I'm at in my life is different. You know, they keep telling me things that I read about menopause and women is that, you know, women hit their sexual prime. You know, boys are 18, men are 18, men or boys are 18. And women are like 60 or 70 or somebody thing. And I'm just like, what? How could that be so...
completely at different ends of the world that really made me laugh. I'm like, wow.
Um, you fellas, you need to be looking for older women, obviously. Like forget, you know, forget these 65 year old guys that want the 20 year old girlfriend. Fellas, you gotta go older women, period. Full stop. There are so many of those studies where you just think it is objectively hilarious sometimes to try to pair the two together ever. Like how does it ever work with a man and a woman just because they wind up on such opposite ends of
varying spectrums all the time. But I mean, I think about what I would look for with a second date. And honestly, I found more often, I mean, humor has always been absolutely huge for me. Big, huge.
I love to laugh. I love funny people. I will always prioritize spending time with people who make me laugh over people who don't. And I've always sought out groups of people who have the same sense of humor and who just want to have laughs together. And when we're together, we're always doing bits. Like we're always coming up with bits. We're always doing that. And we're always poking fun at each other. Trying to make each other laugh all the time. Like it is such a wonderful feeling to,
to make the people that you're with laugh and you're in your mind thinking, oh my God, what can I do? I love that as well. That's a big one. Yeah.
Yeah, that humor would probably be my number one thing. But also just the feeling of being easy, like spending time with someone is easy. It wasn't challenging. I didn't have to come up with conversation. I didn't have to, you know, pretend to be something I wasn't. I think if spending like when I got together with my husband, I was like, wow, spending time with you is so easy. Yeah. And having a square jawline never hurt. No, no.
No, I don't recall seeing my jawline in the last 35 years, but that's okay. That's all right. Nora Ephron wrote the funniest book. I think it was something I'm paraphrasing the title right now, but it was basically like, where did my neck go? What happened to my neck? I feel bad about my neck. I feel bad about my neck. Oh my God. She was so great. Listen, we have, we have one minute left in this show. Caitlin, thank you for coming back to us. I'm
Glad that you have had such an adventure this last year. And I'm glad you're feeling happier. I'm glad you found, you know, that science is magical. And when they get those chemicals right in your brain and when you pursue, you know, things that work. So thank you for doing that and looking after yourself. Can't wait to have Will on the show, you know, and gurgle and Google. You know, we'll be asking him a few questions.
But if I know him at all, he'll have a lot to say when he can finally talk. I have no doubt in my mind. Listen, folks, we have a lot to look forward to going forward in the podcast. Caitlin and I had such a great conversation this this past week.
about plans that we have, things that we want to do. We want to engage you guys. We still want you to send those voice messages to the Jan Arden pod on X Twitter, formerly known as Twitter, Instagram. You know you can weigh in and leave us voice messages. And just when you do, know that...
We are assuming you're giving us permission to use them on the show if need be. But let us know what you want us to talk about, if there's things you want us to talk about. But engage. We're on all the platforms. So drop us a note and keep us in your loop. And thank you to all of our listeners for their super sweet, always so supportive messages while I've been off and on.
All the nice DMs. I just, I always say that we have such great listeners to this podcast and they can feel like a little family. So thank you to the little pod family. I, it's a, it's a treat to come back. Yes. And you have been on a path this last few years and everyone has been right there with you. And, and, and, you know, we,
Everyone has found out how wide their shoulders are to help each other for sure. Anyway, join us next week. We're off and running. We'll certainly hear about Sarah's Greek holiday. I'm a little bit jealous. I have not had a holiday, but this has felt like a holiday today. So thanks for listening, everybody. We'll see you next week. Totally do.
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