Oh, the Places You'll Go!
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Gracious, good day everyone. This is the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I am coming to you from Toronto, Ontario today. I'm in my little condo.

Here in Toronto, I got here yesterday from Portugal. Caitlin Green is joining us. She is in her abode in Toronto. Sarah Burke is in her abode in Toronto. Hello, lovely women of the world. Hello. Hey. First of all,

Traveling is a pain in the ass these days, and it is not for the faint of heart. I am telling you, Portugal, Lisbon, the airports, the lineups to go through security were six, seven hundred people long. It was just like a snake going through the entirety of the airport. Like when we first walked in there, Lisbon especially, because I flew, came from the ship. I've been on a ship. I've been on a river cruise. I should back up a bit.

Because it rained so much in Portugal, the rivers were so high that the ships couldn't go under the bridges. So I didn't even think about that. It's like when the rivers rise two or three feet, the whole ship goes up and then you just can't safely go under bridges. So anyway, drove to Porto, got on a plane to Porto really, really long, long way.

lines for security. Then got to Lisbon, four hour layover. But when we got into the airport, I said to Chris, oh my God, I hope that lineup isn't for security. And it was. Oh my God. It's just daunting and people are frustrated. People are trying to figure out where they're going. There's a lot going on in traveling. I thought it was kind of stressful to

three years ago before the world flipped over. But now it is, it is really something else. I'm glad that I was with people that are calm and confident travelers. Because if I was with somebody that didn't know what they were doing, it would be. I feel like they need some sort of global, like nexus. Because I mean, I've used that to go to this state.

But I want that everywhere because it's so good when I've used it to go to the States. Agreed. It's so effective, even like in Canada, if you have it, sometimes it'll help you with security. So I think they need to have that everywhere because we've all already given our privacy up to Mark Zuckerberg anyway. So I might as well get a faster travel day out of it. If it means a retinal scan, I don't really care at this point. So...

I'd scan my nipple at this point. Right? I'd be like, where's the machine that you stick your nipple into? There must be. Every nipple's different. I mean, I'd put money on that. I mean, if you've had the x-ray body scan, they probably know you're already. Exactly. They got Jan Arden's nipples already. It was a real privilege and a joy to go and to see the Gerald Valley in Portugal. It's lovely. You know, they have a good life there. Although there are some very strange...

aspects to Portugal. I don't know a lot about the government sort of in the 80s, but there was thousands and thousands of people that abandoned their businesses and walked out of their homes, just left a very bad political situation. So there's these amazing buildings that are speckled through the countryside, businesses that just look like someone locked the door and walked away. And those are everywhere.

But it was interesting to walk around and see those. I think people are slowly coming back now. And Portugal, of course, like much of that part of Europe, had 41, 42, 43 degree summer where people needed to go to cooling stations and it was just boiling. It was about 22, 23 degrees when I was there and lots of rain. But I have discovered that I really love rain and I really love marching around with an umbrella. It doesn't bother me in the least.

Hate it. Lucky you're in Toronto because you got three days of it. Enjoy. I can't believe I didn't come here to snow. That's true. Like there was a guy jogging in a sleeveless jacket.

athletic shirt and little like a banana hammock shorts. And you went by with very bright fluorescent runners. And it's actually very mild. I didn't have one drop of rain. I had a whole bunch of errands to do today. But Toronto's great. It's really nice to come back here. And I think the contrast of coming from Lisbon, coming from Porto,

The modern contemporary vibe of the city, the transportation, the buses, the streetcars, you know, the subway. It's very impressive. And I think it's stepping away from this and coming back to really realize how advanced, how modern this

how kick-ass we are in this country. So I think for people that haven't traveled, they need to, because I feel like a lot of noise comes from people that have never been anywhere else and have absolutely nothing to compare it to.

Yeah. But then you also go to like Stockholm and you're like, that's the future. Or like South Korea. And you're like, that's the future. Well, Singapore, places like that. It really is. I mean, but then there's most countries that are not even anywhere near as modern and as...

forward thinking as Portugal or Spain or, you know, Germany's really ultra modern too. But there's a lot of places in the world where you're like, wow, like in Porto, there's a lot of poverty there too. People that live outside of the infrastructure of where the tourists go. Because once you get outside of that, it almost feels like every man for himself. Because they've built up for the tourists because they're

Portugal is tourism, tourism, tourism, and tourism. That's how they're making their way. Jana, I would like to know what you were doing. You were on a river cruise, but what was the gig? It was one night of performance. Can you tell us a bit about that? They're really great. I've done five of these cruises, and I was able to take my mom when she was quite down the road with Alzheimer's, and it was really fun. She thought she was on a train, but we were on a river cruise. You know, like 100 people come, and we do a Q&A. We do like a trivia night.

crazy, funny, Jan trivia. You know, these people know more about me than I do. And then we do a show like in Portugal. This time we did a show in a really cool little theater, you know, for 100 people. I had my keyboard player fly in, my guitar player, Graham. So I think it's a really special thing. Obviously, you know, I get paid for doing these jobs, but I also have the experience, the amazing, very privileged experience of doing something I would never do

outside of these tours. You know, it's almost like we all kind of need a little nudge. I think, you know, when we were talking about some people never travel anywhere, I really do think I would be one of those people, but my job is

Took me to Ethiopia. My job took me to Washington, D.C. My job took me all through Scandinavia. But I'm privileged. Music has allowed me to travel. And, you know, I might do another one somewhere down the road. I don't know. Did I see your friends from the golf tournament were with you? Were they not? The one lady that I met? Lisa and Bev came. I treated them to come. Lisa's had a shit year. So nice. She's had so much going on. You know, she has a really stressful job. Bev retired.

So I just thought what a great opportunity to bring a couple of my friends and they had the most amazing time. Like they just have never stopped talking about it. So yeah, I think travel is a really important thing

part of human life and not everybody has that opportunity. I completely understand that. It's unbelievably expensive to fly. But I always say this to people, there's nothing like a road trip. You and I have talked about that. We've all talked about that, the three of us, about getting in a car and even doing a day trip. That makes a difference in your wellness. That makes a difference in your mental health. It's just to have a little change of scenery, even if it's a three-hour drive to go, you

and get an ice cream somewhere and bring your lunch with you and sit by a river. So it doesn't have to be a big thing. The smallest little changes in your day. My gosh, I know, you know, in Ontario, you can drive any direction for two hours and be in a completely different geography. But winter is coming. What would you say is like your favorite or like

top favorite places you've ever gone and then least favorite? Gosh, Caitlin. I love Germany so much. I love the people. I loved Iceland. You guys know that? Yeah. So progressive, so liberal, so open-minded. You know, if you're a trans person,

go to Iceland because you will live a very normal, very welcomed, very integrated life there. So, I mean, for that reason alone, they were impressive to me. But I loved going to Africa, Tanzania, Ethiopia, as much as there's abject poverty. I couldn't get over the joy and the magnitude of the wildlife and the cultural explosion in my mind. It couldn't have been any more different than my little

life on the prairies, just how people were living. It's been a privilege to travel the world with music. I've traveled nonstop really for the last 40 years and I think it's really molded my thinking. It's made me, I think, a better critical thinker. I think it's made me more empathic. And also it surprises me endlessly, you guys, when I talk to people that have never left their province. I'm not

certainly admonishing that, but you can understand how thinking becomes so narrow. I think I have really a broad idea of what this world looks like, and it's been mind-boggling to go and do these things. But what about your least favorite? Okay. It can even be like a city or like a place where you're like, oh, the vibes here are a bit off, or like, I didn't have a great time. I've had kind of weird times in Washington, D.C. Okay. Yeah.

I felt probably more frightened there walking around than I ever have. And this is 15 years ago. The world has changed. But I think I was more frightened wandering around Washington, D.C. than I've ever been anywhere else. I got into a really, really shitty part of San Francisco a number of years ago as well. And I felt really scared.

Yeah. And it was one of those things where I just thought I shouldn't be here, which is surprising because San Francisco, I've been there other times and.

I've loved it. I mean, you walk uphill to get somewhere and then you walk uphill to get home again. Like you never are not walking uphill. My calves were so sore that entire trip from just walking around. I usually find something redeemable about everywhere. Where's some of your favorite spots? I mean, I loved Scandinavia so much. I loved Copenhagen. I loved Stockholm. We went to an island once.

a Swedish island called Gotland when we were there too, which I really, really loved. I haven't spent enough time in London, but I was there for about five days and thought that was fabulous as well. And we did our honeymoon in Barcelona. I'm a bit biased in favor of Europe probably, but I think Copenhagen might be the tippy top for me. Really? There was something about the city that I was like, I could live here. You know when you fall in love with the city like that and you're just like, I could...

this could be it. If I only spoke Danish, then I'd be. Yeah, there's that. There's that problem. And it's like, but they were really nice. They were great about everyone there speaks absolutely perfect, like better English than I speak amongst five, six, seven other languages. So really liked it. I loved Machu Picchu. I loved the Sacred Valley in Peru. But I found Lima was like, oh, my God, I just wanted to get the heck out of there. It

It was rough stuff. It was the traffic. If you think Toronto traffic is bad, you are just in a car soup for hours of your day all the time. And they have safety issues there. But, you know, he kind of kept our wits about us and we didn't end up accidentally in the wrong part of town, thankfully. So, yeah.

But yeah, Machu Picchu was great, but Lima was like, well, tourism Lima, please reach out to us and perhaps you want to sponsor our show. You and Washington tourism for Washington, D.C. Come on out. Well, Jane, you're about to fight me on this next one. I really didn't like Berlin.

Berlin is my least favorite German city. Oh, thank God you said that. I thought you were going to be like, what? No, Berlin is my least favorite German city. And I think the wall coming down, not a lot improved. I mean, you're talking about the 80s, but Berlin still has a real East-West vibe to me. And it was a...

It just seemed like, God, what I wouldn't have done just to get a spray washer, an industrial spray washer, and go through that city and spray every building, every street,

Am I ringing any bells here? The number of times I just was like, well, this entire neighborhood has been soaked in urine somehow. I started taking photos of the random piles of like urine soaked garbage that I would find spilling out everywhere. And like everywhere we went, people were so unfriendly. And they were like, there was a real...

dislike of tourists. I'll say that. They kept seating us in the tourist section, which is like the worst part of every restaurant. And it would be the rest of that restaurant would be beautiful and empty. And then they'd cram all the tourists into like a little corner by a janitor's closet. And after this happening at a few restaurants, I finally figured it out. They also don't accept Visa or credit card anywhere. They kept saying they wanted cash. So

So we're like running around a urine soaked street trying to find an ATM. And I was just like, that's it. Like, I'm sorry. It's just. And also the Berlin Wall.

I walked beside it for so long and finally my husband and I like stopped someone and we're like, help, we're looking for the Berlin Wall. And they were like, yeah, you're walking beside it, you idiot. I was like, that thing? That's what I've been hearing all this fuss about? It's like a couple dusty bricks. It was...

And like, I mean, some of the history was cool, but then obviously a lot of it's kind of a downer. And then you like go to a restaurant and they're like, would you like to sit next to this J. Anders closet? I was like, I just left the memorial for war and tyranny. Now I'm eating in a closet. Like, get me out of here. Well, I think I don't know a lot about what kind of happened with the reclamation of that area and what happened, but there's still a lot of stress. I think

The wall came down, but I don't know if anything has really been done to build it up. Like, did you notice the bullet holes everywhere on every building? Yes. There's been no effort to like, and maybe it's an important part of history, but I do agree with you there. It's a very foreboding energy and there just doesn't seem to be the infrastructure or maybe the desire to make it better. But listen, if you go to Hamburg,

If you go to Munich, you're dealing with quick, fast, friendly people, well-dressed, you know, the big things of beer and Oompa Paa music and lederhosen and lots of fun and Oktoberfest and really everything that you think about Germany. But Berlin is a world of itself. To me, and I don't want to offend anybody, and I know I will, it feels super Russian.

Yeah, well, it was cold. Like, I mean, emotionally felt quite cold to me when we were there. And I mean, I have definitely offended people because I have so many friends who love Berlin. Like, that's why I went. Yeah. Then I realized that they were all going to like warehouse nightclubs and stuff. And like I was there with Kyle and we were just trying to have like a decent meal and some nice walk. I wasn't trying to go to like, you know, a 5 a.m. like clubhouse.

like club. But I think they do that well. They do clubs and they do art. Like if you're into avant-garde art and you want to stay up all night and like watch people like, you know, I don't know, like contort their bodies in a club until 6am on ketamine, then like maybe it's for you. But it's like, I just want to go to bed and get a decent meal. And this city is making me crazy. It's the one place that I've been to. It wasn't Berlin. I'm pretty sure it was

Munich. And it's the first sex club. Oh, you know what? It was Cologne. It was Cologne, Germany. And I've also had diarrhea in Cologne. This is a completely different conversation. Are they related? I had really bad diarrhea on stage singing in a club in Cologne. And it happened on the very first song.

And I've talked about this before. It's like my worst stage story. That's anyone's worst story of their life. And I had black pants on, thank God. But I had to get through the show. Like I had to... That's a whole other day. But I went to a sex club. I don't think I intended on going. But I had gone with one of the band guys. And we went into the club. And it was flashing lights and the drinks. And I got my beer. And I wasn't sure what to expect. And oh, like what happens in here? Like...

And then my friend tapped my shoulder and I looked up and in the netting above my head, there was people doing things in the netting above the club. There was nude people in this netting kind of having relations.

In a net? How are they... It was like a netting. It looked like... Like Chuck E. Cheese, but for adults. Cirque du Soleil gone bad. How are they getting any, like, traps? I don't know. They were hanging on to each other. The nets were really tight, but it was above their heads, and I'm thinking... But I'm like, how are you getting... Like, there's no... You're not going to get any purchase on that. You know what I'm saying? It was just, like, part of the vibe in the club, and we were looking up to people having sex in these nets above our heads, and the riot...

part to me is that I didn't even notice. I had to be tapped and like look up. Like, is it because I'm short? I don't know. Yeah, might have needed that umbrella. Oh, no kidding. Listen, Germany's interesting, but you know what?

Having said all these things about traveling and about favorite and worst places, I cannot tell you how many conversations I've had where I have loved a place and the band guys have hated or the person that I've been with. But every place I've gone, I've learned something about myself. I've come away with an experience. You know, Dar es Salaam is not going to be everybody's cup of tea because it really looks like

Explosives have gone off, but it's just people living their lives and making houses out of shit they find on the street. And I just marvel at the efficiency of what they're doing and how they go about their lives. And everybody's got cell phones. But I wasn't scared there. I wasn't scared in Dar es Salaam. I was scared in Washington, D.C. Yeah, most scared I've been while traveling was in Indianapolis. It's so random, the experiences that you have.

You know, Arizona is not my favorite place, but some people like they live and breathe. They go to Arizona every winter and they're there for like six months. And I'm like, I cannot know.

But if you drive to a different part of Arizona, you're going to see the most amazing things like Sedona and these red mountains. And just if you have an opportunity to travel, and Sarah, you would agree with this. You were in Greece with a bunch of your friends this year, and I bet you there was parts of it you loved, and I bet you there was parts of it that you just didn't.

really didn't like but you come back a different person yeah very fair and like sometimes the city you have to travel through is not the highlight right i think that's an important thing with traveling yeah and get health insurance and our friends at intact are great with that yeah and yeah intact contact them because they will help you with travel insurance and they're really great at it

Don't leave without travel insurance. I mean that. No, for sure. And like a lot of people, they'll have it provided by their employer and they just don't know or they don't take their info with them. And then you want to have that handy. Or your credit card. Or your credit. Yeah, exactly. Or your credit card. I do find that it's one of my favorite questions to ask people and like get answers on is to talk about what they like or don't like about certain places they've been. And I don't know why. It just always is like something I'm very interested in because I think I just love travel so much. And

And I long for it right now because we're not able to travel as freely as we once were because of our giant baby. So I find myself talking about it. Well, those things will change. Listen, you're listening to the Jan Arden podcast and show. I don't know how we got talking about travel. But when we come back, we're going to talk about friends and we're going to talk about the wonderful Matthew Perry departing the planet. But we're also going to talk about what will you say to your if you had a chance to phone your

your young 15-year-old self and what would you say? And I'm really interested to hear what the girls' take on that's going to be. So don't go away. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. I'm here with Caitlin Green, Sarah Burke. We'll be right back. ♪

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I don't know how many episodes we've done. 160? We're well into season two. Yeah, we are. Season one was four years long and... We're in season three. Are we in season three? Yes, it started in September when Caitlin came back. You're welcome, guys. On with your bad selves. God, season three. Okay, sorry. Something came out today. Oh, what's this? The Jan and Sarah proposal?

of holding in their hands. I left out, I don't have one. My first novel, The Biddlemoors, came out today. We are pre-taping this podcast, so 12, 13, 14 years in the making. I wrote two books in between this book.

But I finally did get it done. And it's very exciting. So I went to Eaton Center today. And I marched down there and I always, whether it's a record or a book or whatever it is, I always just for good luck go in and buy myself a copy. And I put the receipt in the book and I just leave it in there.

So, yeah, it's exciting. I'm looking forward to people reading it. What's it all about? I think it's a modern day rural fairy tale. It's kind of a coming of age. It's a cold case. It's a fairy tale and cold case. I'm really having trouble putting that together. Well, it's true. And I think once upon a time, I really was very intent on giving farm animals a real life, like life in real time. There's talking cows.

And I wanted people to have a sense of empathy and a sense of what's right and wrong about animals. It's not in a heavy-handed way. And you know what? I don't know if I set out intentionally to do that. It just sort of happened. But I think it will really make you think about, you know, who the bad guys are and what does that even mean anymore?

And just origin stories. Where are we from? Why is that important? You know, being courageous, going to school, you know, being a young person like in the ninth grade and dealing with all that crap. But I think it's a really, really interesting story. It's a mystery story.

And there's a lot of things unraveling and I'm looking forward to people reading it. I have to tell you guys this. I was five minutes away from getting on the phone with my credit card company to be like, I did not buy anything at Indigo on Sunday because I did the pre-order. And then all of a sudden I get this receipt and I'm like, someone has my credit card information. And then this arrived today in the mail. So they're very on it. Hey, will you pre-order a book? Right away. I forgot.

No, it's great, Sarah. You're helping me to keep a roof over my head, okay? You're very welcome. Jan, according to all your haters on social media, you're a millionaire several 20 to 30 times over, so... Well, anyone who can believe any of that stuff, I actually have typed in what is Jan Arden's net worth. Yeah. And I think it came out as like 10 million. I'm looking at it going, are you out of your ever-loving minds?

Like, I rarely even have cash in my wallet. I'm like the tap queen. I think I have like a toonie at the bottom of my purse covered in Smarties and dust from something. Who knows? But I just, $10 million? Really? It's such a funny thing that the internet thinks they can create some sort of composite from people's net worth, and they really get it wrong, especially in Canada. Yeah.

They're like, ooh, this person's famous in Canada. I'm like, that means that they probably are broke. Well, if you type that in and you kind of go, what is Jack? Google will give you kind of like these questions.

Well, it's so scary. So who is Jan Arden's husband? Who is Jan Arden's partner? Who is Jan Arden married to? Yeah. How much does Jan Arden weigh? How tall is Jan Arden? What's Jan Arden's real name? What is Jan Arden's real name? Well, my last name is Richards. My middle name is Arden. So I've had a few of those. Anyways, it's a very daunting thing, Google. Anyhow, moving

Moving on, I really do want to ask you guys this. Caitlin, you brought this to the table and explain this to you, like phoning your young self. Give me some background on this or set it up properly. It was a post on Reddit that took off and basically the question was posed, if you could have a 15 or 30 second phone call with yourself. And they said five years ago, but then it kind of snowballed into people talking to their even much younger selves.

What would you tell yourself? What advice would you give for yourself five years ago, 10 years ago, whatever? And this is a common thing that I think pops up every once in a while in conversations that start trending where it's like advice to your younger self. What would yours be? Well, if it was five years ago,

I think a lot of people would be talking about COVID and be like, get out there and travel and like live your life and like do some stuff because things are about to get really crazy, really fast. What if it was Caitlin at eighth grade?

Caitlin in eighth grade, I honestly feel if you could get into the DeLorean, like, would you really change anything? Because then you don't want to like lead into some demented alter universe. But okay, having said that, that's not going to happen. Assuming that's not going to happen. And I still get to have like, you know, the stuff that I like, I think I would tell myself to pursue the arts a little more. I've referenced that on the show before, but I feel as though it wasn't considered this valid career path when I was younger. Which is true.

which was crazy because then the guidance counselor's advice would be like, oh, go take a general arts degree. Like, what's that going to do? Like, I don't know. I didn't end up using anything I learned until I went into a specialized like media study, which was after university. So like, I don't really understand why I didn't. I should have just pursued my interest in drama. I should have pursued my interest in like the performing arts a little more, but I think it was shrugged off as kind of a fluff class.

You know, it's like I excelled in it and I loved it. And it was like, oh, but it's drama. Like it's like easy. And it wasn't easy. We had a really tough teacher. So like you wouldn't be able to monetize.

pursuing the arts like that just didn't seem like a viable way to make a living. And how do you know that when you're 14, 15 years old? I mean, you're pulling all of your information from other people, right? Like other adults and other students and your peers. And nobody was really doing that. And I didn't really know anyone who had done that as a job. I didn't have any examples.

around me of people who worked in this field. So I just didn't think it was a real thing. I mean, I lived in the beach in Toronto. It wasn't like, you know, I didn't know anyone who did this, but I loved it. Like I loved movies. I love television. I love comedy. I love comedy. I was obsessed with Saturday Night Live. So I just feel like I should have gone into that a little more because it was by far the one class I cared about in school and I was in plays and I just I loved it.

But I think you really have embraced a lot of what you just said because you're unbelievably creative. I think you are in media in a time where, you know, the sky's the limit and you're so young. You and Sarah are both so young. I mean, when I was your age, I...

couldn't have fathomed where I am now. Even in my mid to late 30s where you guys are kind of teetering, like you're in for such an adventure. Sarah, what would you say to yourself? I think you don't have to do things just because society says you should. Although I wouldn't take anything back and I have no regrets. Like I was definitely in a five-year relationship because I thought I should have been in that relationship, not because I should have been in that relationship.

You just thought it was like, oh, this is a nice guy and we could potentially live a nice life. Like, yeah. Well, so many people made that choice because it was safe. There was no raggedy edges. We just have to go through it. I mean, you can't jump over the hard bits. I mean, I feel like I'd be saying to myself at 15, don't ever take a drink. Don't ever take a single drink.

Because you will be sent on a fucking rocket ship. You will be shot out of a goddamn cannon. You will be at a sex club in Cologne under a net. Like, I wish I could have avoided that. You know, people talk ad nauseum about, I have no regrets. I have no regrets. I'm like, I wish I didn't have regrets. I'm riddled with regrets. Yeah.

I have regrets that sneak up on me on a Wednesday sunny afternoon, like a deep breath in, like I suck air through my teeth. And think of something that I have not pondered for 20 years, and it will be as visceral and as pointed and piercing as it was in the moment that I was making the mistake. Yeah.

So I think that would have been my message to myself is to avoid that. And I never did a drug. Thank God. Because I would have been dead. But then, like you said, Sarah, about the relationship and, you know, um...

would I be this person sitting here? And you alluded to that too, Caitlin. Is the DeLorean door going to open and you're going to shift everything you did in your life? And would Will not be here and you didn't marry Kyle? And, you know, I don't know. We could get really out of hand here. Well, it's sliding doors, right? It's the sliding doors. I love that movie, by the way. I love that movie. You haven't seen it. Gwyneth Paltrow, you know, if you go in this door or

Watch it. I'm not even going to wreck it. You just need to watch the movie because it's definitely what we're talking about. I want you guys to think about what you would say to your young self, yourself 10 years ago. We'd love to hear from you. So please contact us at the Jan Arden Pod. We're on Instagram, Twitter. I think we're up on threads as well. I think we're on there. But yeah, DM us. Leave us a voice note.

Matthew Perry passed away, and it was really, really gut-wrenching to see the sincere outpouring of people that felt like they had truly lost a friend. Yeah. That they had truly lost someone that they grew up with, truly lost someone that they'd spent their life with.

really formative years with. And I wasn't surprised. And I don't want to be judged here, but I have never seen Friends. Obviously, because of the omnipresent nature of the show, that it was everywhere, that it was on all the advertising, that these characters were indelibly planted into our consciousness for a decade. I never saw the show. But I obviously know who everybody is. But yeah, 54 years old, very young. I didn't realize...

He was that much younger than me. He was so young. And he obviously had like lived a life because he talked very publicly about his struggles with drug addiction. And when he was even like filming the show, what it was like for him. And he's been a huge advocate for sobriety. And he even has a recovery center, I think, called the Matthew Perry House in California. And so he

He's done a lot of work, but I just feel like even though he'd lived this hard life, it was like so unexpected, but he'd really cleaned everything up for himself, it sounded like. And it's really sad. And I think it's one of those situations like when someone makes you laugh a lot and when someone is...

part of your life every week in like a warm and cozy way. It's not like he was on some hard-hitting, you know, murder show. He was in a show that people watched to bring themselves comfort. It was a comfort TV show for everybody. And so they still watch it today. Like, younger people will re-watch it today thanks to streaming services and get into it now. And it hit people pretty hard. Apparently, Jennifer Aniston is like really struggling with this one. Think about how much time they spent together. It sounded like he really...

loved Jennifer like he wanted to be with her in real time. I just saw some clip where he said it was so hard coming in and, you know, hi, it's your weekend and giving her a hug and then watching her walk away and saying to himself, I will never be with that girl. You know, so, you know, just we don't think of these people as, you know, when they're

elevated so high up i think they were shocked by how famous they became that even in that first year people forget he's canadian he's from ottawa yeah yeah his mom was the press secretary for pierre elliot trudeau and i didn't wish i didn't know his stepdad is keith morrison i know like what i didn't know it sounded like a lot of this stuff i didn't i didn't quite realize and i didn't know that he talked in his book about his relationship with his parents and uh

Yeah, like he obviously did quite well for himself financially and in his career, but there were some pretty clear struggles. I also think that level of fame, having that level of fame and then trying to move on and like do anything else in Hollywood could be so challenging because if you're not the one person on the show that was Jennifer Aniston, then everybody else is just forever that character. And I bet it's just odd for them. Yeah, you definitely you are left with the problem of having that kind of legacy.

Yeah, like you're Candler, you're Ross, you're not Matthew Perry or David Schwimmer, you're, you know, you're Joey. Like, I mean, people probably yell their catchphrases at them 30 years later. That'd be so weird and kind of like, it would just be strange. You'd feel very pigeonholed. And didn't he have a semi-pro tennis career he talked about? Oh, wow. I had the audiobook and...

He chased that really hard, realized it wasn't going to become, he wasn't going to go as far as he thought. Right. And that's when the father showed him the way to fame because he was living with his dad in LA. He was such a handsome guy and had that personality that absolutely adorable and fun. Like what a great combo. But it's terrible to watch someone struggle with addiction. Yeah.

He said, I was, you know, obviously I was like everybody else reading a bunch of stuff about him. And he said, when you saw me, you know, overweight on the show, I was drinking. And when you saw me really skinny on the show, I was doing drugs. And he said, I've just spent millions and millions of dollars getting sober. But he just really championed people who are struggling. You know, he sent his book out to the people that were really struggling.

trying to find sobriety in their lives. And I think everyone assumed when he passed away, they found him drowned in his hot tub that, you know, he must have been using again. But Caitlin, you would know more than me, but I don't think that's what the case is. No. It was a heart attack. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, heavy drug use or drinking can wear on your heart for sure. Yeah.

But he also had apparently gone and played pickleball that day. And then it was two hours before something like that. And then he came home because I think his, you know, he was sore. So he got into his hot tub. And that's where this cardiac incident happened. So technically, the list cause of death is drowning. But it could have just been the massive, you know, cardiac incident that he had. And he couldn't get out of the hot tub, you know, just there. You know, there was no suspected like relapse or anything like that, which is good to hear.

but it's tough. Like he was just,

It was shocking. It was like a super shocking passing, I think. And it was one of those things where I'll look on my phone and see the news really quickly. And I'll like out loud gasp like that's happened a few times when someone famous passes away. And this was one of those times. Well, like you said, 54 years old, he had conquered his drug addiction. Obviously, it just, you know, wear and tear and it can weaken your heart. But there's also, you know, many, many 50 year old

50-ish men that have heart attacks all the time. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, don't ignore all four of you guys listening to this show right now. Don't ignore that stuff. Men are terrible for getting themselves, you know, to the hospital, especially with cardiac stuff. They ignore shortness of breath. They ignore tightness in the chest. They think, you know, it's something, you know, make sure you get your stuff. When you hit 50, fellas...

you know, get checked out. Just be aware. Anyway, a huge loss for the entertainment community, huge loss for people that have been

you know, fans of the show for decades. Yeah. And I really do feel for his family and, you know, his loved ones and his friends and all the gang, all the friends gang and certainly all the cast, the crew that worked on that show for years. And I guess everyone that speaks about him speaks so highly of what a nice person he was, what a great person. And boy, life just isn't fair. Just when he was getting things straightened out, I think his last Instagram post was,

quite gut-wrenching. It was looking up at the stars in Los Angeles and I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something, oh, is this what it feels like to be happy or something like that? Yeah, maybe you could look that up, Sarah. I'm not exactly sure what it was. Oh, so warm water swirling around makes you feel good. I'm Matt Mann.

October 23rd. And it was something to do with a show that he was working on. So he was working on a new show, something to do with Mad Men. But I just thought, what a, the irony of that caption. It just was such a lovely last photo of looking over

the skyline of Los Angeles from the perspective, I think it was from his hot tub. I don't want to go out there and say things that are completely untrue. I think you're right. He had a really great moment right up until he didn't. And coronary things can be quite rapid too. A lot of times people don't even know what hit them. You have that arrhythmia, you have something and you're gone. So anyway, for all the Matthew Perry fans out there,

We sure feel for you. And I need to watch Friends. That's the takeaway here. Go watch Friends. You have homework by the next episode we record. We need you to be through all the seasons. Yeah. I will start. I always need something to watch in the gym, but I'll start from the beginning. Okay. I'm sure it holds up really well. It's Friends. Yeah. People love it for a reason. Yeah, they really do. I mean, would you see that show being made now? Probably not. Yeah. I mean, like in a way, because...

I think that it was supposed to be this synopsis of that time in your life, in your 20s, when you've moved out on your own, away from your family, away from your hometown. Right. You don't yet necessarily live with a partner or have made your own family, so to speak. And so your friends are your family. And it was this cool time, I think, and that concept feels relatable to people now.

20 years ago or 20 years from now, I think. It's a really, you know, it's a nostalgic time for people. Did you have roommates?

Yeah, I did. I had roommates. How'd that go? I had roommates in university. I had too many roommates in university. Okay. Did you write your name on your fucking eggs in the fridge and your drinks and stuff like that? I should have because there was a subletter who came in at some point. He had a soul patch. And I was happy that my roommate found a subletter because otherwise she would have been out the money.

But I think his name was Al or something. I don't know. He looked like a... Remember those garbage pail kits? Those dolls from the 80s? Careful, Caitlin. We don't want lawsuits. And he sat down and ate an entire party-sized package of my two-by brownies.

Oh, my God. I'm like, oh, I didn't know who they were. I'm like, these things are gold in university. I didn't know who's they were. Well, that's why. I mean, you just see people writing their names on a can of Coke. Yeah. Writing their names with a jiffy marker. You got a chubby baby and a husband now. I do. That's your roommates now. I also went from like living with roommates to then like living with like partners.

So, and at one point when I first got together with my now husband, Kyle, he was living with one of my best friends from growing up, his cousin. So the three of us for a period of time lived together in an apartment on Queen West. And I have to say some of the best years of my life, like truly the most fun, dangerous amounts of fun were had in that apartment. So yeah.

It was great. Are you still friends with that guy? Oh my gosh, like one of my best friends. Like he's family. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah, I've never had a roommate in my life. I've just been a loner. Probably should have had roommates because there was some lonesome times, but I was such this crazy person

Like artists, I just would drink so much coffee and write songs. I don't think I could have lived with anybody. I think people would have just been like, no, you can't live here. And plus you were late with your rent again. And plus you can't cook at 3.30 in the morning. Like you just...

So I think I was probably better off alone. I should have done that. I shouldn't have had roommates. I, too, was not a good roommate. But you just said you had the best time ever. With them, I did. But in university, when I lived with like five other people, it was rash hell. But I did well with my friend choices in my like 20s. But in my early 20s in university, it was like it was not it was not a great scene. Plus, it was like boozy Halifax time. Like it was just not.

I don't know. Boozy Halifax time. I want a t-shirt that says that. That could be the title of my memoir. Exactly. Boozy Halifax time. Sarah, I think you had roommates. I think we've talked about this before. Yes, I had lots of roommates. Yeah. See, that did not sound very enthusiastic. Yeah, I had roommates. Yeah. Yeah. And? I went to Carlton first. You're living in like what is now my TV room. It's like two people with beds in this space. Yeah.

And she was a friend from public school and we didn't talk after that. Then I lived with four girls in residence at Western and that was awesome and fun. Although like the one girl was like, I'm from Chatham. I've never seen one of those. So we called her Chatham. You learn how different people come from different backgrounds, you know? She'd probably have liked Washington, D.C. She's still Chatham in my phone today. I bet she would have liked Berlin too. Yeah, she's listening to the episode like, F you guys. But we're so different.

That's the whole thing, right? Yeah. Maybe you guys should have said to your young selves, don't get roommates in university. Yes. One thousand percent. These things do come up, but it's how the hell else do you afford it? I'm not going to say his name because I don't want to give away anything. I talked to you about this before, Sarah, a while ago.

That had eight roommates like living illegally. Do you remember that conversation? Yes, yes. But I was just like, excuse me, what? What are you doing?

Like they were all just piled into this room. Like I think there were supposed to be two people in it. They were doing this for an entire summer between like the school years. Yes. With sublet situations so that like, fine, I'll sleep on the floor so I can travel. Oh God. And they saved a lot of money. I couldn't do it in a million years. I know. Nigel's coming with his mom, his sister and his husband on Boxing Day and they're going to be there for three weeks. Yes.

And I just want to say, and this is the truth, they're the greatest house guests of all time. And you were a great house guest. I want to say, Sarah Burke came with her friends, and they were amazing. I thought, this could go one of two ways.

I could have been making scrambled eggs at three in the morning. What the hell are you doing? The microwave could have blown up with, you know, frozen chicken wings. Of course it's meat. They were so tidy. You guys were so amazing. There wasn't a, there was nothing in any garbage can. I brought your garbage up. I'm like, what? Where do I put this? Like the beds, the sheets were taken off. Like you guys were amazing. But anyway, Nigel, everything in my house gets fixed. They are just amazing. Everyone's,

I don't know how I sort of drifted into having guests in your home, but I also have had terrible guests. I actually had a woman, I shall not name this opera singer,

sleeping on my kitchen island. How? The microwave was like, I think I threw it out because whatever they were trying to microwave in the middle of the night, like I locked my bedroom door and stayed in. That's a whole, we need to do a podcast on bad guests. 1000%. I have so many good bad guests. Join us next week because I'm already telling you what the topic is because I want to delve into this in detail.

of my life and I locked myself in my bedroom. And then tell us yours. I'm gonna show you guys my terrible roommate who's been yelling at me. Okay. Oh, here we go. We're going into... Oh, so well. I heard you're going into acting. Yeah. He might. Say hi. If you were phoning your six-month-old self, what would you say? He would say...

Hi. Hi. Well, that's a great one. And that's exactly what I would say to. Okay, Caitlin, we're going to say goodbye. We're going to bid people a fond farewell of this Jan Ordon podcast and show with Caitlin Green, Will, her husband, Kyle, Sarah Burke. Bit of a party today. Yeah, we're just having a wild time. Listen, what's the moral of this podcast? Get out there and do some traveling.

Be easy on yourself. And it's never too late. Like, what would you say to yourself right now today? You know, going forward, knowing what you know now, you can still make those virtual calls in your mind and you can every day is an opportunity to get it right. Right, Will? Right? Say right.

You've been listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. Subscribe to our show. Give us some ratings, some five stars, ten stars if you want. We're available to listen to on all your favorite platforms where you get your podcasts. iHeartRadio, iTunes, Spotify, wherever you get them. You know, stealing it from your neighbor's cable signal. I don't know, wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you, Sarah Burke, Caitlin Green. Great to have you. I know you've got a lot going on. Sarah and I do not have children as of yet. As of yet. I'm still very fertile. I'm still very fertile.

I don't know what Jan's working on. I still have a good egg. I know I do. We'll see you next time on the Jan Arden Podcast and Show. Thanks for listening. You mean a lot to us. Totally do. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.