Meredith Shaw: A New Chapter at Breakfast Television
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Good morning and welcome to the Jan Arden podcast. I come to you now as a very frustrated individual. I am doing this on my phone. Everybody else who looks fantastic. Meredith Shaw is our guest. Let me get that right off the top. Hi. Without any further ado, I'm not going to ramble on about my crap. Caitlin, give her her just desserts. Caitlin knows you better than anybody.

Okay, okay. Okay, wait. Multi-talented media icon. What? Who can not only sing. A little known fact about Meredith that she's an excellent singer. You probably know her from taking over national morning television on breakfast television. Previously of Chum. Previously of The Social. The most body positive, gorgeous, effervescent bottle of champagne that just opens up on camera every day for you. It is none other than Meredith Shaw, everybody. Wow.

Wow. Oh, my gosh. Well, I'm really glad you did that, Caitlin, and not Jan Arden, because that was great. You guys worked together for so long. And you guys have got lots of Belle stories, which, you know, we have a do not resuscitate speaking about Belle. Is that what it's called now? Yeah. That's the clause? Tell me everything, Meredith, that's going on in your life. I mean, you have just been absolutely amazing.

doing such a brilliant job on breakfast television that comes out of Toronto and it goes right across the country every morning. And we see your shining face and the wonderful people that you work with have just embraced you

They have really adapted around the Meredith Shaw phenomenon about what Caitlin mentioned, body positivity, the clothing aspect and styling, any body, any body shape. For any occasion, they've kind of incorporated that part of what you brought to the show. How do you feel about how they have really embraced you and cheered you on?

First of all, I'm so excited to be here. I love this podcast. I'm a big fan of the podcast. That's all the time we have. Okay. Yes.

I really am. I really am. I didn't know if you'd have little old me on because I'm here in Chelsea Handler. I mean, these are like big, big guests. You've been on the show before, Meredith. I know, but you know, I'm thrilled to be here. I love all three of you. Thank you for having me. And yeah, I like that you have called that out a little bit, Jan, because it's true. The show has been super supportive of

welcoming me in a really active way. Like I think sometimes that can get said or people could say that about their coworkers or, but it's really kind of a visceral thing.

environment. And I think that's why the show works and connects so much is because they really focus on the people that make it up, not only sort of the host, but right back to our audience. I mean, who we have on the show, what we celebrate on the show, what we give spotlight to on the show. It's, it's really specific. And I think that specificity allows the show to be even more kind of universally accepted. You know what I mean? Like sometimes stuff is too broad and

And I think we really get into the nitty gritty of sometimes too nitty gritty, quite frankly, of the goings on in my life, my blended family and my relationship. You know, you kind of got to give it all. But then you walk out and about.

in life. And, you know, then people kind of know all these little bits and pieces about you. And the, the relationships that I, that I have with people ongoing is a really beautiful thing, but it still stumps my mother. My mother is still like, do you know them? And I said, no, no, I mean, not specifically, but you know, kind of. And then the next person will come up. Are they your friend? Well, yeah. So

It's been a beautiful thing. A lovely thing. Yeah. Big addition. Yeah. Being a public person, I'm sure for parents and friends that, you know, you can be in a restaurant, you can be out there with four of your friends having a drink and the server just beelines it to you, asks you for your drink order and walks away and everyone else is sitting there going, are they going to take my drink order? And people just get excited. I got to meet your mom. They sure did. That was very special. I mean, I can't think about it too hard or I'll get emotional.

Although you taught me, Jen, that crying is not a bad thing. You don't have to be concerned about people when they cry. Cry is joy coming out of your body. And I love that. That makes so much sense to me because I often get emotional when things mean something to me. And I was a bit embarrassed about that part of myself. But you came on Breakfast Television. You're like, no, no, emotions.

are a good thing. And tears sometimes mean the opposite of what everyone associates tears with. So it was very joyful for me to have you meet my mother. We've shared...

Oh, gosh, just so many conversations about about you, Jan, over the years. Oh, because you were such a yeah, yeah. No, we have. You were such a central beacon for me growing up. Just I don't know, just looking at you and thinking this right now. The truth. It's the truth. I mean, I go on other podcasts and they don't understand what I'm talking about.

Yeah, I got to say about this podcast. Yeah, it was very special to be able to stand there and sort of, you know, introduce myself

I'm other to you. She loved it and loves the craft services backstage at your show. Oh, yeah. I think we had a cherry tomato and a bottle of water. It was not Friday. I know. Good. It was it was a fantastic show. And then that was the show, the tour that you were on with the wonderful Rick Mercer. And you sang acapella. Good mother for us, because it was it was Mother's Day. The girls came to Caitlin and Sarah were both there.

The evening. No, did you guys come to the afternoon? Yeah, we were the evening show. Evening show. And that was the only time I sang across the country was was just Mother's Day. I figured. How have you been doing as far as getting up in the mornings?

Dare I say. Yeah, you dare. I mean, it's the reality. It's early. Kaylin knows this so well. Well, so does Meredith, too, though. Like, you are not unfamiliar with it because Meredith was Marilyn's longtime vacation fill-in on the Chum Morning Show. So Meredith and I would say, I'm going to keep doing this because your names start the same. My mother's name is also Marilyn. So I've been called Marilyn and Meredith. And then it just sort of continues. And it's a great compliment. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it is ultimately. But so Meredith and I together would like be side by side before the sun came up running vampire hours at CHUM. But it's very different than what you're doing now because you have to be full glam now. Like now you're on TV doing full glam. So that is a different... And you always looked fabulous in the morning. Like I would roll out of my Uber...

like hair like unwashed like now like I am right now yeah and I would look over to my right and you just see Meredith would have a ring light on and she'd be like doing her makeup and I was like okay this is why you're good for TV. So much of radio is on television now like you're like on screen you know it used to be kind of you rolled in and did the thing but now it's uh there's more more to it than that yeah Meredith was just like hello anyway so yeah you knew it from then

Well, yeah, I mean, that whole process. Look, I find all that stuff fun. I really do. I mean, I think it's a really interesting form of expression. I've always had so much respect and love for makeup artists and hair and, you know, growing up in that fashion world. There's just they're so talented. And in television, too. I mean, they are amazing.

Angela and Chloe are the two people that set me right as I go off into this show. I mean, are these your hair makeup people? Yes. Yeah. Okay. And they are, you know, a lifeline. Not only do they make it all look all right for TV, but you know, the conversations we have and the,

the generosity and care that they have for me. I don't know if I would be able to do it without them, honestly. It's like, it's such an important piece and not for the looking good part, but for the feel of it all. So yeah, the mornings are definitely early.

It appeals to me, though. There's something about the rhythm of it all that kind of, it doesn't feel wrong, if that makes sense. I think for some people, it just doesn't quite work with their circadian rhythms. I've always sort of been able to adapt to what I need to be doing because I spent many years playing music late. So I've been on the opposite schedule. But I've definitely flipped into this morning routine. But, you know, at 10 a.m., I'm like, okay, we're done. Yeah.

we're done for the day. That's the other side of that coin. Listen, we know very well here at the Jan Arden Pod about sponsorships with companies that come on board and buy into what you're selling and want to be partnered up with you. And you've got a really great partnership right now that I find so interesting and such a perfect share for you. Tell me about Pennington's and tell me about

how that came about and what that means to you to be with a brand that celebrates women. And what a great fit for you. Tell us about Pennington's.

Yeah, thank you. First of all, I totally agree and co-sign with everything you just said. That's why I'm working with them. I mean, their ability to show up for a huge portion of the population that does not get a lot of fashion brands showing up for them is really special. And, you know, with this brand in particular, definitely.

You know, I started as a customer. I was a customer for years. And I still remember, um, addition L is a brand that is now within the pen umbrella, but additional was a standalone store. And when I was growing up, you know, I've always been a bigger kid. And so I can remember going into that store and,

and putting like another bag on top of it when I would leave the store, like walking around. Right? I know. I know. I can still feel that girl. Like I just feel her inside me. And I think if anyone has had that kind of experience before, you know, it's a reaction that resonates with people because maybe they have done that too, but they've never said it out loud before. And so to be able to

now kind of flip that experience even just for myself and then to be able to translate that you know for other people it's really meaningful to me so yeah I mean this is a partnership like you say that's sort of the way the world is these days in terms of you know funding art and projects and

But this is different. This is really a meaningful one all the way through my bones. And so to be able to have worked with them in this way to create this summer dress collection was really cool. That's an edit that I have. And then we've got, you know, I've been designing and that holiday collection is going to be coming out.

under my sort of name but you're designing yeah you are designing and you have a hand in putting together the freaking looks colors patterns how they're cut the waistlines the sleeve puffs the everything I mean are do you have a background in that at all how the hell does a person go about doing this

No, I'm just a girl who's putting on a lot of clothes that has a lot of opinions about it, I guess. I don't know. I don't. I mean, I grew up in that fashion industry. I spent a lot of time on set as a model, observing, observing, observing. Oh, you're a fashionista. You know, and I got to see mainly the stuff that wasn't working with brands, mainly the stuff that, you know, I'd be on set with, you know, the different categories or straight size models. So, you know, the more traditional like model you think of, they'd be on set and they'd shoot their stuff.

And then, you know, I'd be the plus size girl, the curvy girl model. And, you know, they'd have 17 looks to shoot. And I'd have like one bedazzled oversized tiger tunic. And I'm like 14. You know what I mean? I'm like, this is what is this? Like, I don't understand why this is happening. Like, why are we making this garment? I don't know. I bought that bedazzled tunic because of you.

Well, I got a lot of apologies to make. We're starting here. This is the atonement. Yeah, no, it just was, it was a strange...

industry for a little while of like, I don't understand who's making these rules. It's certainly not women who are wearing these clothes ultimately. And I think that's where the expertise comes from is my personal experience and then really getting curious with the business, how it works, how designers work. And then, you know, Marilyn Dennis gave me a huge platform on her show to work with women and different bodies and, you know, the amount of clothes I put on different people. And there's some things that just hold true. And some cuts just work, you know, no matter where you carry your weight or where...

if you're bigger or smaller, whatever it is, you just, I really got to know that, that piece of it. And ultimately you got to have choice. You got to have things that excite you, that affirm who you are. And we're, I'm, I'm, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. It's really exciting. It's very exciting. Years ago, I was in New York. It would have been the 90s. So we're talking, you know, 20 plus years, but I was with a stylist and,

And we were doing something for the David Letterman show. So you could imagine my excitement was unbelievable. And of course, I had no fashion sense. I kind of wore my jeans and my Mac jackets and my Doc Martens and

had my long red hair and I darkened in my mole and I wore my red lipstick. I mean, that was my spiel, right? And I thought it was good enough. And shame on me for buying into the idea that that wasn't going to cut it. So, but we were going into these shops. I don't know. I want to say Soho because that sounds cool, but I don't know where the fuck we were. And every store we went in, they didn't have above a 10.

And I was barely a 10. I would have been a 12 up top. I had the D cups going on. Oh, yeah. But anyway, I just, I remember my humiliation. And you touched on that, you know, having the bedazzled jumper or whatever it was that you were supposed to model. But I remember that day and the things that they ended up getting from me. I ended up with a Donna Karan shiny suit that I still have to this day.

And it was so tight around the tummy. And I remember them pinning it kind of under the shirt because the waist was simply too tight.

And I couldn't get it up. But the stylist insisted that this was the fucking way for me to go to pull these pants on. I had not only did I have a camel toe, I had a camel two toe and maybe a three toe. And maybe there was some kind of a toe in the back as well. Like a sloth, a three toed sloth. Thank you, Caitlin. You're welcome. I just remember my whole experience with David.

feeling humiliated. And I never really concentrated on singing or... So we all, I think as women, regardless of your size, have those memories of maybe something you wore for a high school picture or... Oh, for sure. Just like, why did I wear that shirt? And you thought it was cool. But what do you say to women that

Much like me in 1996, couldn't find my voice to say, no, I'm not wearing that. I don't need to do that for the office, whatever. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the tragedy of it is if you don't rise around it a little bit.

then your experience and like the one you were speaking of, it becomes about that as opposed to the thing that you're actually there to be celebrated by. And the thing that really broke it away for me, because I've had multiple, I mean, not with David Letterman, but multiple experiences in that space. And it's like,

once you see it, that it's about control. Like once you see that it's someone, it's a matrix and a lot of it exists because they want us to spend money and fix ourselves and change who we are and get distracted from our purpose. And there's a lot of things at play. And once I think you see it for that, for what it is, I don't think you can square that off with yourself to not show up in a different way. It's like, I'm not spending all this

time and love and energy and effort. And then I'm going to be derailed by someone else's agenda of what I should or could be doing. It's like, fuck you. That's not like I'm not doing that. Like, that's not why am I doing that for you? Like, it's I think it's really turning around, seeing it for what it is, which is an economy,

You know, and you don't have to show up in someone else's economy, but just because those stores aren't carrying above a size 10, you think nobody in New York is above a size 10? Give me a break.

I know it was so bizarre. But the stylist fully knew that going in. She would literally say to me, and I forget this woman's name, probably on purpose. She would literally say to me, they're probably not going to have your size in here. Let's just go see what they have. Shame, shame, shame, shame, shame. But I mean, the fact that you can cut it out right now, Poppy. Hi, Poppy. Poppy's advocating for you. Poppy's angry. But the fact that...

that, you know, and then, so now I'm already rattled. But you know what, Meredith Shaw? I never did it again. I think about three weeks later, I did Good Morning America and Jasper.

They had come up to Canada to shoot the show from Canada to do stuff. I remember watching you on that show. I remember. Well, I had on a jean jacket, my jeans. I had on my boots that were like welder's boots with steel-toed tips and the little tassels on the toe. And I had on my plaid shirt and my red lipstick. And I never did it again because that night in the hotel, I thought, I'm never, ever going to have somebody tell me

How I am comfortable, how I need to dress for the fucking label in America to have people accept me so they'll buy my record. Oh my God, what a ditz I was. No, but I'm going to take that all off you because it wasn't that at all. I mean, we were, I remember being in that era.

There was no this conversation in that era. None. Zero. You don't think so, Caitlin? No, I don't. Because I remember being like younger and thinking that, you know, when I looked at women in music, especially, they were so thin. I mean, my God, they were thin. And I had right around that time had jaw surgery. And as a result...

I couldn't eat for a while. Like I was on like a liquid diet. So I lost a ton of weight. I'm already a teenager. I've lost a bunch of weight. Wasn't I asked about modeling randomly on the street when I was like physically unwell? Like I look like a skeleton with like a candy apple head.

And I was approached multiple times. And again, this isn't me tooting my own horn. It wasn't because I was like, they were like, oh, look at this like face of a goddess. They were like, oh, look at this terribly thin person who looks unwell. That's what we're going for. And I was like, okay, so no, this is not realistic and this is not healthy. And I think of like, look at Gwen Stefani. Like it was like Gwen Stefani was like out there with her like washboard abs and you're like, that's fine if that's you. But like, how come there's no reflection of the actual statistical evidence

women in society part like it didn't happen it was it i mean it was a very different time and we're definitely the progress is there i think there are things that are slipping all over the place and control being taken and you know as soon as any talk of bodies begins and limiting people's ability to advocate and control their own bodies like that's like a mayday of all kinds of issues societally but i think in that specific way too it's so interesting to me that like you know

If we go back to that New York story, like you're supremely successful. That's why you're there. It's all working. That's why you're there. And then a stylist, somebody else, and it could be anybody for anybody listening, like any influence in a life. It's like, well, actually...

I know you're doing really well all on your own, but I have an idea on how to make it better and how it can go to another level. And I think that's the moment to resist and to stay open to, of course, people's creativity and input, but not to not to erase yours for theirs. And I think that's been a true understanding for me is that the more I show up as myself and

It's like the hardest, easiest thing to do. It was the hardest thing for me to understand how to do. I was always sort of pleasing and contorting and twisting and changing and showing up how I thought someone else would make, you know, and the moment I, I don't know, I got so sick of that. I couldn't do it anymore. I'm not sure. Yeah.

had a few more candles on my birthday cake. I don't know what it was exactly, but now a combination for sure, a combination, but now it's the, it's so, it almost feels like I'm doing something illegal. I'm like, this is so easy and y'all love it. Y'all love this. Like I don't, wow, this is a beautiful. So if you, if you haven't cracked into that space yet and you're listening to me, a, you're listening to the right podcast, but B, I think that's the rub is just,

It's hard until it's not. And then you'll never, ever go back. But don't you feel a little bit like because I know from, you know, working with you and like getting like DMs and messages and like talking to people who know that I know you.

That it's like the fans and especially like the women who listen to the show and watch you now on breakfast television, like they always knew and loved you. But it's almost like the structures, like the bigger structures, the bigger organizations, like that part of it seems to be the part that confuses you. But then the fans are like, we loved you the whole time and got it.

And the people who didn't get it, they didn't get it. They're not your fan. Whatever. That's totally fine. But it's like the people who get you and connect with you when you're being your authentic self, that seems to be the part that the powers that be don't always understand and like mess with. And I'm like, you're messing with perfection. You're messing with the thing that's going to be the connection point for everyone who loves your talent.

And so, I mean, kudos to you because you've always been like that. Like you're so like yourself and you bring that out in other people and make them comfortable. That's some good media intelligence. You could be like a professor in media. Like you could teach media literacy classes because you're like, no, no, I get how this whole thing works. I'm like, I'm going to do it my way. Just being cognizant of time. I know Meredith has a meeting in like five minutes, but maybe you could speak about like

a time when you know you had such a profound impact on a listener or a viewer. Love that. Well, I think back to something really recently we did. We introduced something called The Meredith Makeover on Breakfast Television. And I worked with an incredible woman named Carrie. And we had a really emotional moment in a change room. And everything was going very well, like in terms of it was fun and we were connecting and we were shopping and

And then, you know, there was just a moment in the change room where the reality of trying clothes on and, you know, also the reality of being filmed in a certain aspect came to bear.

And it just, the well broke open and she was very emotional about how she just wished she could feel differently about herself. She has a consciousness that she's a great mom and she shows up to work and, you know, she has great friends, but she doesn't feel it. And that's what wardrobe can do. It can confront you with some of those worthiness feelings.

And I just was able to stand with her in that feeling. And I think that was a powerful, I didn't try to fix it or take it away. It was like, I I've been exactly where you are. And I think she thought I, I wasn't where she was like I, that I didn't know what that felt like.

And I think sometimes maybe you see people on TV or you see people out and about and you think, you know, they've got some other thing figured out. But the figuring out only comes because the depths of the reality was there at some point. And so I thought it was really powerful to be able to be with her in that moment and then to see her come through the other side and to get messages from her now and just sort of see her come out in an outfit, look at herself in the mirror and her eyes changed. And it really was this idea of like,

Oh, I got it. Like, I, I don't need to be smaller or bigger or any of that racket. I can just, I can just, you know, put on a better pair of pants. Yeah.

Yeah.

You can wear that short jacket. It doesn't need to, nothing, it doesn't have to cover your bum and your thighs all the time. We all need it. We all need them. The size of the clothing should like fit you. It's not like you don't have the strength to fit into a certain size of clothing. You just get a different number. It's not you. It's the clothes. That's, I hear stylists use that all the time. Yeah. And it's permission. Totally. To follow what you love. Yeah. My closet is, there's everything in my closet. I've got every size of the world and I'm

Clothing, like the labels, they can't decide what a small, medium, and large is. I find it very laughable sometimes what a large is. I can't even get my fucking arm into the jacket, and I'm like, this is a large? In what world? Am I in Grinytot Town? Is this Gap Kids?

Where am I right now? Listen, Meredith Shaw, Pennington has picked a queen in you. Thank you, Dan. And I hope that partnership lasts a long time. I cannot wait to wear a Meredith Shaw dress this summer. Keep up. Meredith Shaw. It's at Meredith Shaw on all her socials. And you can watch her on breakfast television five days a week.

It goes right across the country. And if you want to start your morning off with a smile on your face and a lot of laughs, I've been on the show and you guys make everyone feel so welcome. You have great co-hosts with you. And I'm just glad that they let you be you. And they saw breakfast television, winner, winner. They saw you.

And Caitlin said it so succinctly. The fans already knew. They already loved you. But anyway, we're so glad you're a friend of our show. You're welcome back here anytime. Thank you. I love all of you. This is better than a cup of coffee. That's for sure. My gosh. What a lot of love. Thank you so much. Right back at you. We'll see you soon.

And if you ever want to do a makeover on any of the three of us, I think me and Caitlin and Sarah, we're more than happy to come on the show someday to do us a makeover. We're happy to do that. Jane will wear her trucker hat and we're all set. This thing was $275. I stole it from Michael Bublé. That's a good flex. I like that.

That was absolutely a fantastic conversation with Meredith Shaw, as always, and we're going to be right back with Sarah and Caitlin Greene.

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A cola or a cream soda, root beer, yes indeedy. And they've got their limited edition summer flavor, which will take you right back to the second grade. You gotta try the ice pop one. Head to janardenpod.com to find out where the closest place to you is where you can go and buy Cove. Go right now.

Well, welcome back to the Jan Arden Podcast. I'm here with Caitlin Green and Sarah Burke, and that was our very, very special, special guest, Maris Shaw. We love you, and you are so positive, and she's so beautiful. Like, that girl is just drop-dead good-looking. Like, she's just, but she's beautiful because of a whole myriad things, not just physically, not just the way she carries herself,

But the way she treats other people, she's truly one of those interviewers. Anytime I've talked to her, you're always the star. It's never about her. She doesn't ask you a question and then insert her own experience while I've got a story. That's, you know, she just very much gives you that seat.

Yeah. Of importance. And I can imagine crying in a dressing room with Meredith standing there beside you, showing you a way to put clothes on your body that you never even considered was possible for you. And being very emotional by having the person looking back in those god awful dressing room mirrors that we all shun away from. Yeah. And actually going, is that me? Like, am I wearing this shirt and those pants with the high waist and this and that?

So I would imagine it would be a pretty mind-boggling experience to get a makeover, like period. Oh,

Oh, my gosh. Like, I mean, some people, especially if you're already dealing with body, you know, image issues to then like put yourself out there to do that. I think it's such a testament to her sort of confidence and where she's coming from. And it's not like phony confidence. It's not like it's not it's not like an insincere confidence. It's like really like and it's but it's from like deep inside and from going through all things that she's gone through in her life, obviously, too. And it's it's a real it's a real skill, darn it.

And yeah, I love working with her. She's very, very funny. Also, she has a fabulous sense of humor. And it's been really exciting to see her paired with Sid, which I think is such a good match on VT and just like get along like a house on fire. It's just it's great.

Can we talk about something that happened to me that was like... Oh, please. I want to know everything that's going on. I wanted to catch you guys up on my Scotland trip. I wanted to ask what was going on in your world because I feel like I haven't talked to you guys in a long, long time because we did a pre-tape before I went away so that I didn't have to worry about recording from when I was at the UK. But anyways, go. Okay. Okay.

So this past Saturday, I went to go see one of my favorite. I almost want to say he's stand up, but he's a performer as well. He does. He does comedy songs, like original songs that he writes. He's very everything under the sun. And his name is Chris Fleming. So he had two shows at the Royal Theatre. I went to the early one and he referenced you, Jan, probably five times during the show. And at one point broke out into like a short version of him singing Insensitive.

And I was like, you're not supposed to record anything because a lot of it's his new material. And so I was trying to sneaky record it without pointing my phone at him and my girlfriends who I was with. Like we were all trying to get it. We could not get good audio of it. What was he saying about me? So he was talking about it started because he was saying how when he's in Canada, he notices just the difference between things in the U.S.

And he said, you know, here in the U.S., if you open Netflix, the thumbnail they use for Scarface is Al Pacino with the machine guns like going crazy. And he said here, it's like a glamour shot of Al Pacino just holding his head on his hand or whatever. And then he joked that like Insensitive is playing in the background. And he's like, you know, and they've got Jan Arden in the background. And then other people in the audience started singing it.

Because they know it so well. And so it was just hilarious. And then he kept doing it because it hit at first time. So you became like a callback for Canadian culture. Oh my God. You're welcome. Truly, you're welcome. I actually DM'd him after to be like, I just had to say that I co-host a podcast with her. And holy shit, that was funny. So he hasn't even read it. I think I just probably went into his like weirdo request. Yeah. But...

Anyways, it was I had to mention it because I was like, that's how synonymous you are with Canadian culture that he like he even knows this. That is very touching. I think, you know, when you're in a comedy show, it's like, am I a national joke? What is happening? But, you know, it's funny.

it really is a blessing to have a song like that that is so sort of omnipresent and culturally whatever it is but he loves female singers and he constantly talks about how he's this very androgynous like he wears women's suits on stage that are like glittery he has like long curly hair

So he he really presents himself as as sort of the antithesis of the stereotypical masculine energy. He's ambiguous. He is. And he and he talks a lot about how, you know, his male friends will listen to one thing and male comedians especially will listen to one thing. And he's like, I can't talk about sports with other male comedians. I'm like, so what do you think of Annie Lennox? And they just he's like, I have nothing in common with them. So it really was in tune with his comedy and also with his audience, clearly, because like it hit when he said it, it was like it really clicked.

Oh, I love that. Well, we all know who went to see this guy, you know, obviously.

Um, you sent me something else this morning and I was just, I wrote you back. I went like, Jesus, what does that even mean? Was it hot rodent boyfriend summer? Yes. Okay. Okay. So, um, there's always, you know, like dad bods or short King summer for short men, whatever. Yeah. And he actually talked a little bit about this in his comedy show too. It's come up on a few other podcasts I listen to. How do men get rebranded to be hot when they're just typically not hot?

Right now you have actors like Jeremy Allen White and one of the two actors from the movie Challengers. He played Prince Charles on The Crown, the younger Prince Charles. Yeah, I know who it is, but I don't know what his name is. Yeah. And so and then Barry Keoghan, the Irish actor who was in Salt Burn. Who was a very strange looking guy. Okay, so this is the thing. So now everyone's like, oh, it's like all these publications and all these outlets are like it's hot rodent boyfriend summer. I'm like, what?

How come women never get this? We never get like cankle queen summer. We never get like greasy hair and girly summer. We don't get rebranded. We get stuck in like the same loop of conventional good looks only all the time.

So what women would be in that category? Let me ask you guys that because I happen to love interesting looking people and I've always been attracted to very different looking, not classically beautiful or classically handsome. I know that my little wheelhouse is just encompasses really different looking things, whether it's a crooked nose or a tooth that's going sideways or just

I mean, I do. I really like interesting people that are so confident and have embraced themselves so much that they are just like, boom. It's just like this explosion of energy around them. So what do you think, what women would fit into that in your mind's eye that we could kind of make that comparison? Is Juno Temple, would she fit into that category? Who's she? She was in...

Um, Ted Lasso. She played the young woman who was the English girl that went out with the main soccer player with the beard and stuff. She... Oh, she plays Keely. Yeah, Keely in Ted Lasso. Oh, isn't she supposed to be like an underwear model in that? I guess so, but I find her very differently. But there's just so many people. I find Elizabeth Moss to be kind of a very interesting...

not classically beautiful, but yet she's quite stunning. I could even put Barbra Streisand into that category of someone who, if you look at the sums of her parts, you know, a close set eyes and her nose was such a huge part of her career and probably very responsible for the sound of her voice and how she sang. But Bette Midler, I think, would fit into that category of someone who strikes us as powerful, powerful,

Strong, beautiful. Tilda Swinton comes to mind for me. Very much so. That's what I mean. So who were those people? Tilda Swinton has swagger, right? Because I feel like that's that X quality you can't really account for with someone where she's very self-assured and very stylish and like statuesque. And she just has a presence about her for sure. Shout out to Leslie M who had a book out a couple of years ago called Swagger.

Oh, okay. Leslie Ammon, she speaks to a lot of those things that each of us has to address your swag. Hollywood doesn't give that same treatment to women as like a group. You know what I'm saying? There's never sort of the equivalent of a hot rodent boyfriend summer that happens for women and then applies to just regular women.

So I found that to be funny because that's like a trend that's going around now where everyone's talking about all of these men. Barry Hogan's in the new Sabrina Carpenter music video because they're dating. And so it's this whole new thing. And I'm like, okay, he might be a great actor, but can we not call... I just don't feel like we need to call him hot. I'm still traumatized by the nude dancing at the end of... I know! I thought he was hot then! I want to get up and leave, but no one's leaving and...

Everyone's just glued to the big screen right now, this wiener swinging around. And I don't know if you've seen Salt Burn, Sarah, but it, you know what? I'm going to say don't watch it. I think Caitlin and I disagreed on this movie. Did you not like it? You really liked it. No, I didn't like it. Okay. Sorry. I can't remember who didn't. So don't waste my time. Got it.

Yeah, I wouldn't waste your time. I would watch Superman again with Lois, you know, with Margot Kidder. Just go there. Yeah, I'm kind of a little bit off-put by that, Caitlin, to be honest. The hot rodent summer. If I was a man that was written about in the context of that header, I would feel really sad. Would you? Yeah. I don't think I would take that as, oh, hey, they're really thinking that

My weird weirdness, my something that's kind of sticks out of the norm is going to be appealing this summer. I will say like they're very successful in the dating world, these men. And like Jeremy Allen White, who you might know from The Bear, he he looks a lot like a young version of Gene Wilder. Like he's like the like the new Gene Wilder. I find him super cute.

So this is what I'm saying. And so and he's a Calvin Klein model. So I don't think they're bothered by it because I think they're truly being branded as hot. Yes, the word rodent is unflattering, but I'm just saying there's no equivalent for women. This doesn't happen for us. Speaking of summer, I've been adding like crazy to the Jan summer jams.

Spotify playlist. So I must have put 25 songs on there yesterday. I don't know what you guys are going to think about. And before we leave the celebrity thing, I'd be remiss to not touch on this at all. I've been very excited about the Celine Dion documentary that's coming out on Amazon. I'm going to the TIFF premiere on Monday. Okay, I'm so jealous. So anyway, there's little clips that are surfacing, one in particular. Celine is talking to an interviewer that we cannot see. They are off camera.

And she's explaining to them how the stiff body syndrome disease that she has, which is very, very rare, which has knocked her obviously out of her Vegas residency, out of her world tour. It has stopped her professional life completely.

Anyway, she was sitting there and she looked, you know, very lovely, hair pulled back, no makeup. And she's speaking very candidly to this guy and they were talking about breathing and she was saying, I can take a breath in. She was trying to explain how it's affected her singing. So I'm watching this clip. And then she goes, she says, and this is what happened. She goes, I can take a breathe in. But she said the, the whatever that the stiffness, the hardness that is pushing against her, that's part of the disease.

She went to sing one of her famous lines in one of her tunes and like nothing came out. It was just a gravelly, stunted, blunted note. And she she started crying. She said that I can't. This is this is what I'm dealing with. And she was just distraught. I started crying. I'm like emotional hearing this. I started crying because I've seen her.

I cannot count the times that I've seen Celine Dion sing over the last 30 years. I have been a fan from the beginning. And she said, I can't believe that I'm showing this to you and that I am letting you hear what has happened to my voice. And then she just, she crumbles.

And I'm, I'm cannot wait. I'm looking forward to seeing the documentary and I'm dreading it at the same time because I think it's such a, she

she's exposing her very soul. I mean, obviously singing is everything, how she misses people. She misses the stage. I mean, let's face it, this kid, this is all she's known since she was eight or nine years old. I know. The supremacy. And I'll tell you what, her voice is nothing short of perfection. I have never heard anybody better. I've never heard anyone sing like that in my life. Every note is live. It's none of this fucking bullshit that we hear now. I swear to God, sorry, Shania Twain, you don't sing live anymore. You just don't. And

You know, people are always so scared of saying things like that. You don't, if you sing one song live, well, fucking hooray. But it's just a joke what people are charging for. Celine, her voice is, when you hear it live, because I've heard it live, the hairs on the back of my neck just stand up. It is a God-given gift. It is supernatural.

so rare, this kind of talent. It's rare. It's once in a thousand years voice. It's not just generational. It's something that surpasses what our idea of singing is, and it is perfect. So anyway, to see that clip, man...

You have to let us know how that premiere goes and what it's about, but it's supposed to be... I think she's supposed to satellite in in some way. Like, I think there's supposed to be like a... Yeah. So we'll see how it goes. It's Monday night. I'm so excited. I'm so...

such a huge fan of hers. Yeah, I just like all of her songs. I could just listen to them anytime and be like blown away by her talent and her fashion. My God, when she's on stage. The last tour she had, I just thought every look, the effort put into her when she goes on stage and the energy she puts out. I mean, I saw multiple people cry at multiple points throughout the show because like she just

She reaches you like that? She was built for it. She's built for the stage. I mean, I think she loves to sing in the studio. But when she, Chris, my road manager and I, we went to the first show she did back after Renee had passed away. She took like a three-month hiatus. And we were at that first show. I don't know how we ended up getting tickets to that. We were, you know, sitting there. And she opened the show with, Are you watching me now?

Watch closely now, your eyes are like fingers. Oh my God, it was that whole scene from, if you know A Star is Born, the Streisand, after Kris Kristofferson dies, she comes back with this song.

And she started with their version of this song, of a spotlight of her standing in front of this massive curtain. I was trying not to sob out loud like a freak. Chris was crying. The woman behind me was going, I know. I've never seen anything like it. Anyway, just had to speak to that, of catching that clip and how amazing it was. But

We're probably running very close to being out of time right now. But yeah, if you guys get a chance to see it, it's coming out on Amazon. I believe it's the 25th of June. I will give you my full review on the podcast next week because I'm sure I'm going to love it.

Well, the pictures of your son and his bestie and the freaking ice cream and the walking away hand in hand with the fucking jeans on. I can't. And I can't either. I just I simply cannot. The cuteness factor. And I know as a parent, you're probably going to say it doesn't last. They grow up so fast. I'm sure you wake up every morning. You're like, Kyle, get in here. He's grown.

He's not the same child who put to bed. Well, no, that does happen. Like he wakes up sometimes and I tell Kyle, I'm like, he got a software update overnight. Like he's just like talking more. He's like saying more things. So that really does happen. Every stage is cute, but yeah, you miss it. And you can see why, you know, I can see why my grandmothers each had 10 and eight children because they were just like, we want a baby. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, babies are so cute. And as someone who didn't necessarily want one, and I was very vocal about that for a large portion of my life,

The 180 I've done, care of Will, is really something because he's just this chubby little ball of joy. And I just love seeing how simple things make a baby's day. It reminds you of what happiness is. A turtle. He sees a turtle. That's it. He's like, turtle, turtle. That's exactly it. But why adults forget to do turtle, turtle or to look at something? Yeah. Like...

In Scotland, I ran around looking at all the plants I'd never seen in my life and colors that I honestly have never seen before. I'm looking at a flower going, is that blue? Is that purple? Is that pink? What the fuck is this color? And I'd be like, you guys, what is this color? And Lisa would go, I have no idea what color that is.

And we didn't know what the smell was, like the cliffs. Scotland, I did not picture as beaches. So I get the simple things in life that you overlook. Birds, weird birds I'd never seen before. And just as one finale in this podcast today, I didn't take the metal detector. It's not a travel metal detector. It doesn't come apart and go into a bag that you put into your suitcase. When I unfolded the bag, it's five feet long.

And it's just like a travel bag. So in lieu of that, I took my newly acquired engraving kit. It comes with 100 bits. It looks like a pen. I spent eight days engraving beach rocks. Everyone got a beach rock with an angel, their names on it, the date. I'm crazy for this engraving thing. It does glass. It does ceramic.

Yeah.

You were like a medieval, like you were in the medieval trades in another life. Like you were doing something like that. You were stone welding or I don't know what, stone cutting, welding. You were like a, you were a smith of some kind. Blacksmith, ironsmith, I don't know. If I had mentioned Mary Queen of Scots one more time, I think they would have stabbed me in my sleep. I would go and I'd say to like whoever, tour guides, whatever, was Mary Queen of Scots here? Yes, she came to the castle and

1549 and I bought a book finally my friend Bev handed it to me she goes you might want to buy this it's Where Mary Has Been that's the name of the book

And it's this big, beautiful photographic book. And it was literally her life where she was born and all the castles that she visited in Scotland. So she goes, now you don't have to ask. You can know where Mary has been and not been. You're going to engrave your own tombstone. It'll be like, died doing what she loved, telling people about Mary, Queen of Scots against their will. Mom.

My tombstone's going to say, I'll be back. Anyway, we will be back. We'll be back next week. When is our summer playlist going up, Sarah Burke? The first day of summer. It will be published on the first day of summer, which means that right now we can still take your voice notes. Actually, we'll play a couple of them right now for some of the suggestions. Hi, Jan, Caitlin, and Sarah. Michelle Leonard here. Aside from Jan, my summer playlist is...

And Jan, you are on my summer playlist. But anything aside from Jan, Teddy Swims is my new one, the newest addition. I Lose Control kind of caught my attention and I went down that rabbit hole and listened to all of his music. Pat Benatar. I'm loving the Tortured Poets Department. I'm almost at Society. Rick Springfield. I've met him multiple times and I love Rick. We're seeing him next month. See him every time he comes to Phoenix.

Brian Adams, throwback to my dad, Mac Davis. Heart, Bad Company, again, throwback to high school when they were kind of like the old school music when I was in high school in the 80s. But I still love anything by Bad Company. The Cars,

And then the last one I could really think of that's always on my playlist is Chris Stapleton, excuse me. And I'm sure there's a lot more than that, but those are the ones that come to mind up front. So anyway, love you guys. Love your podcast. Bye. Hey, Jan, it's Denise.

love listening to your podcast. Just caught your show with Rick Mercer recently in Toronto and had a great laugh. Thanks for that. Regarding the Summer Lovin' or Fummer Lovin', wanted to share with you a memory of the song by Sly and the Family Stone called Hot Fun in the Summertime. And for me, it brings back memories of

heading to the beach in New Brunswick, I guess in the 70s, and hearing that song on the radio. So to this day, when I hear it, I absolutely think of summer and absolutely think of my childhood. Thought I'd share that with you, and please feel free to add it to your list. Thank you. Hi, Jan. This is Jan. This Jan living in Australia. One of the cool things about your podcast is I can be here in the summertime, and

and listen to you guys complain about the winter weather and go hee, hee, hee, hee. Or now I'm coming into winter and listening to you guys talking about summertime.

Fabulous show. Love it. It's my start of the week. Bye-bye now. Hi, Jan, Caitlin, and Sarah. It's Carol. Love your podcast. Listen every week, usually when I'm walking my dogs. Calling in to talk about the summer playlist, and top of mine is Springsteen's Dancing in the Dark. Reminds me of the first really big concert I went to, Summer of 84, and

at the CNE, it's Born in the USA Tour. And despite the fact that me and my friends were three rows, I think, from the back, we were convinced that one of us

We'd get pulled on stage, just like Courtney Cox, to dance with Bruce. Alas, it didn't happen, but it was still a great night and a great memory. I just wish I had enough money to buy a tour T-shirt. Love your show. Keep up the great work. Bye-bye. Keep them coming because we're still building. Waiting to hear Caitlin's Summer Jams. It might be the wheels on the bus go round and round the summer edition.

Get ready. It's Bob Seger. It's Sabrina Carpenter. It's Buena Vista Social Club. It's Sister Nancy. I've got some sleeper hits on here for you. Okay, well...

Listen, once again, Sarah Burke, Caitlin Green, thank you so much. You can go on to Jan Arden Pod. That is our handle on across all the social platforms. You can hear us wherever you hear your favorite podcasts, you know, all the usual suspects. Thanks for subscribing. Thanks for being you. Thanks to our sponsors. Shout out to Intact. Shout out to Wonderbra. Shout out to

Kov, come on, Kov. Where are you, Kov? You are over delivering on your sponsor mentions, by the way. So anyways, thank you for listening. We'll see you next week. We appreciate you more than you know. We'll see you next time. Toodly-doo. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.