cover of episode BONUS: Dictators’ Books

BONUS: Dictators’ Books

2024/9/24
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#literature and publishing#politics and government#literary discussion#political and social commentary People
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Daniel Calder
播音员
主持著名true crime播客《Crime Junkie》的播音员和创始人。
采访者
Topics
@播音员 :本期节目探讨了几乎每个独裁者都曾进行写作的现象,他们的作品类型多样,从哲学思考到情绪宣泄,甚至包括小说、诗歌和戏剧创作,质量参差不齐。 @Daniel Calder :作者Daniel Calder致力于研究独裁者的著作,出版了《地狱图书馆》一书,详细介绍了其研究过程和心得体会。他认为阅读这些著作是一场文学耐力测试,其中大部分作品质量低劣,但通过阅读,可以了解独裁者的思想和行为模式。 @采访者 :采访者与Daniel Calder就独裁者的著作进行了深入探讨,涵盖了作品的获取难度、内容特点、写作风格、以及作品中体现的独裁者个人情感和心理状态等方面。 Daniel Calder:作者的研究始于一本鲜为人知的土库曼斯坦独裁者尼亚佐夫的著作《鲁赫·纳玛》,该书的怪异之处使其能够在一定程度上掩盖其可怕的内容。作者在土库曼斯坦的亲身经历,让他意识到独裁者的著作并非只属于过去,而是一种延续至今的传统。独裁者下台后,他们的著作往往迅速消失,这与他们在执政期间的大量印刷发行形成鲜明对比。列宁和斯大林的著作相对容易获得,因为它们曾被广泛翻译和发行;而一些独裁者的著作,例如捷克斯洛伐克独裁者克莱门特·戈特瓦尔德的著作,则非常难以找到。阅读独裁者的著作时,作者有时会感受到他们邪恶的一面,但感受程度因独裁者而异。斯大林的著作风格枯燥,而希特勒的著作则充满仇恨和恶意;列宁的著作中流露出强烈的激情和暴力倾向。独裁者的著作并非只包含政治著作,也包括诗歌、戏剧和小说等多种类型。墨索里尼的作品在写作技巧上相对出色,其小说《枢机主教的情妇》虽然是通俗小说,但结构完整,情感强烈;墨索里尼的《战争日记》较为引人入胜,展现了战争的残酷和其个人情感的转变。独裁者的著作的阅读情况因情况而异,既有强制阅读的情况,也有个人信仰因素。独裁者的著作中很少出现幽默,偶尔出现的是由于无能造成的无意幽默。独裁者的著作有时会揭示其内心深处隐藏的方面,例如萨达姆·侯赛因的著作中就出现了关于强奸和与熊发生性关系的奇怪内容。萨达姆·侯赛因的著作数量众多,但早期作品比晚期作品更能反映其真实想法。萨达姆·侯赛因的小说《扎比巴与国王》是一部爱情小说,但其中也包含了政治隐喻和个人情感的流露。萨达姆·侯赛因在晚期写作的小说,更能反映其内心的脆弱和不确定性。萨达姆·侯赛因的小说中包含许多超现实和令人费解的内容,反映了他的内心世界。作者希望通过阅读独裁者的著作,了解他们的内心世界,但实际情况往往并非如此。理解独裁者,需要将他们视为普通人,并尝试理解他们的动机和行为。萨达姆·侯赛因的小说《扎比巴与国王》中包含了其个人经历的元素。萨达姆·侯赛因的小说在出版后获得了成功,这表明其作品并非完全没有读者。萨达姆·侯赛因在生命的最后时刻仍在创作小说,这表明写作对他而言非常重要。萨达姆·侯赛因曾用自己的血写了一部古兰经,既是宣传工具,也是一种怪诞的表现。如果听众想阅读一本独裁者的著作,作者建议阅读墨索里尼的《战争日记》,因为其篇幅较短,易于阅读。 采访者:采访者在节目中提出了关于独裁者著作的阅读性和影响力等问题,并与Daniel Calder就相关话题进行了讨论。采访者还就独裁者著作中幽默元素的缺失、以及萨达姆·侯赛因用血书写古兰经的现象等问题进行了提问。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Daniel Kalder initially become interested in dictator literature?

Kalder's interest began when he encountered the Rukh Nama, a book by Turkmen dictator Turkmenbashi, which he found both terrible and fascinating. This led him to explore the idea that dictator books were not just a dead tradition but a living, bizarre phenomenon.

What was the significance of the Rukh Nama in Turkmenistan?

The Rukh Nama was central to Turkmenistan's culture under Turkmenbashi. It was displayed in mosques, on mountains, and even in Russian Orthodox cathedrals. It was a compulsory read, with citizens needing to pass tests on it to obtain driver's licenses.

How did Daniel Kalder feel about reading dictator literature?

Kalder found the experience more enjoyable in retrospect than during the process. He described it as a literary endurance test, with much of the material being atrocious. However, the challenge appealed to him in his younger years.

Which dictator's book did Daniel Kalder find the most readable?

Kalder found Mussolini's War Diary the most readable. It was short, had a narrative arc, and provided a real sense of being in the trenches during World War I, despite not being a great literary work.

How did dictators use their books to maintain power?

Dictators often used their books as tools of compulsion, requiring citizens to read and study them. In Turkmenistan, the Rukh Nama was mandatory for passing driver's tests, and in the Soviet Union, there were compulsory classes in Leninism.

What unique aspect did Saddam Hussein's novel Zabiba and the King have?

Zabiba and the King was unique because it felt like a portal into Saddam's mind, showing his vulnerability and paranoia. It also contained surreal and gratuitous scenes, such as a digression about having sex with bears, which provided insight into his psyche.

Why did Saddam Hussein write novels towards the end of his regime?

Towards the end of his regime, Saddam felt embattled and paranoid. Writing novels became a way for him to express himself and explore his thoughts on statecraft and religion. He was reportedly still working on his last novel as American tanks closed in.

What was the significance of Saddam Hussein's Quran written in his blood?

Saddam's Quran written in his blood was a grotesque propaganda tool that also reflected his search for a historical legacy. It symbolized his religiosity and his desire to leave a lasting impact, despite the regime's instability.

Which dictator's book did Daniel Kalder recommend for those curious about dictator literature?

Kalder recommended Mussolini's War Diary as a relatively short and readable entry point for those curious about dictator literature. He advised against reading most other dictator books, which he described as arduous and consequential.

Shownotes Transcript

Almost every dictator, at one time or another, has put pen to paper. Some have wrestled with ideas, with philosophy. Many have merely vented - spewing their diatribes onto the page. Others have made forays into fiction, poetry and drama… with varying degrees of success.

Noiser writer Duncan Barrett spoke to a man who’s made it his mission to wade through all kinds of dictators’ writings. Daniel Kalder is author of The Infernal Library, also published as Dictator Literature: A History of Bad Books by Terrible People.

Scroll down the Real Dictators feed for episodes on the dictators mentioned in this conversation. The stories of Jorge Rafael Videla and Benito Mussolini will be coming later this year.

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