Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I am your co-host, Hank Sinatra, here with my mega-micro-soco-co-host. Investigators later. No, you got to start it worse than that. I didn't want to make you feel too bad. Not possible. That was so bad. I don't know what the fuck that was. Want to try it again? No, I said soco.
Maybe it's going to be a thing. Like Southern Comfort? Right. It was the first thing I ever got drunk on. Oh, fuck. Yeah. No, no, no. I don't want to be toxic. No, no, no, no. Okay. Well, anyway, so I don't live like that anymore. But I did appear to be just a little bit inebriated right now when I couldn't get the word out. All right. So here's what's happening right now. We're coming off the tail end of part one, which as was revealed in the episode is about Jack the Ripper. Jack...
The Ripper. The motherfucking Ripper. Do you remember Mac the Knife? No. He was like a moon-faced singer, but it wasn't real. It was like a drawing of Mac the Knife. Like, Carmelo said your face looks like a cock. A cock.
Yeah, I don't know why that just, whatever. Anyway, Mack the Knife, anybody over 40 will probably know what that is. I'm just. I mean, you got a couple of years on me. You're on the cusp. Yeah, I have about a year and a half, a year and three months on you. Two months. That's it? Yeah. I thought it was like solid two years. No, no, no. Whatever, you're older than me. Yeah, yeah, barely. You're shorter than me. Yeah, barely. So we're coming off that. We're going into part two where we're going to get into like the psychological aspect. The final victim we need to cover also. Yes, yes.
Some conspiracy theories, potential suspects. What is the difference between a theory and a conspiracy theory? Do you know what? It usually says conspiracy theory, but I made the distinction between theory and conspiracy theory because conspiracy theory for me is like tinfoil hat, like so out there, like it's a bigger thing and it has to do with like
taking over a country like crazy whereas a theory is like I just think this is what happened yeah you know I mean like the level of insanity level of reach yeah yeah exactly yeah so I kind of make that distinction whether there is one or not I don't know okay all right well we're gonna get into that before we get into it we're gonna read uh some patreon names just till I love it we gotta give these people their proper deserved propers and credit okay so
So patreon.com slash psychopedia pod, where you go to get more of us. If you love us and you're not getting enough of us, there's a place for you to go. Call 9-1-1. They'll pull you in the right direction.
You get a bonus episode, a bonus true crime, true blue, true crime episode. You get an extra Tankopedia, which is me, my version of a true crime episode. But it's almost like Unhinged. And then an episode a week of Unhinged where we revisit a case barely and talk about kind of whatever. Everything. Stream of thought, really. Yeah. Stream of consciousness. It's always interesting, though, I got to say.
So the two Patreon members I'm going to read off today, one of them, I think you're going to, this is like right up your alley. Let's hear it. Well, first we'll do the Rachel Whalen. Hi, Rachel. Hi, Rachel Whalen. Love that last name. Taciturn Dullard.
You remember what case that's from? I don't, but I remember the phrase. That was referring to one of the, not accomplices, you know, accomplices, one of the Snowtown murder accomplices, Mark. Yes. That's how he was described. Yes, I do remember that. And it's also turned over. So well done, patron member. Better than a cackling, dim-witted asshole. It's not better. That's good too.
Oh, better? Did I say better? You did. I mean, they're both. Picking your favorite kid. I mean, you can't do that. I was thinking, would you rather be shot or stabbed? Oh, speak in my language. Speaking of, before we dive into the case,
Would you rather be shot or stabbed? Oh, shot. Are you kidding me? Me too. Yeah. That's not even a question. Yeah. Who the hell would choose stabbed? Well, stabbing, you're more likely to survive. Oh, wait. I didn't realize that we're factoring in like the consequences of the actions. Like where am I being stabbed? Where am I being shot? If that matters now, it has to be a discussion. Yeah. I don't know. But for another time. I think if death is the consequence, control.
Controlled for in both scenarios. Shot. Yeah, I'm pretty... Obviously. Okay. Yeah. Just bazooka me in the head. RPG! Oh, thank God. RPG? Yeah, it's a thing that... Like the missile. Oh. I just rewatched The Kingdom. There you go. There it is. I would just be like... Fucking take me.
We're so tired. My head hurts. I just want it. Constantly. Yeah. So without further dullardness, without further taciturnity. Mm-hmm.
Not a word. It is now. It is now. Let's get into part two because I really, really, really want to know what happens. I really, really, really want to tell you what happens. Well, then very well. Okay. So first of all, I'm going to give a tiny itty bitty Slater size summary of what happened in part one, but this is in no way a substitute for watching, listening to part one, whether you're watching us on YouTube or you're listening on wherever you get your podcasts. And if you are watching on YouTube, do your part, leave a heart. Okay. And if you are listening on Apple or Spotify, leave a heart.
Do what you do. Leave a review. Did you just come up with that? I did. Excuse me. A little credit. Shut up. The fact that I knew the symbol at all. Yeah, it's pretty good. Diamonds are forever.
This little summary is not a replacement for part one. Please, please go listen to part one. Please. I do have a new shirt on, by the way. So do I. Yeah. Because it's a new episode. Yeah. It's not like we're recording it on the same day. We actually changed our outfits. The last shirt I had on was a take on the Sepultura Roots, Bloody Roots album cover, but it was Groot. Cute. And then this one is my boy H Foley from the RU Garbage podcast.
Oh. Of which, if you haven't listened to my episode on it, it's probably, besides this, my favorite podcast episode I've ever done in my entire life. I like that you said besides this. Yes. All right. In part one, we explored what Whitechapel, London was like in the 1880s and how the area's desperation created a perfect breeding ground for a depraved killer to strike. Yes. We discussed that as many as 11 murders could be linked to the unknown serial killer dubbed Jack the Ripper, but that five victims...
known as the canonical five are definitely linked to this man. By the way, you're speaking my language with that five. Oh yeah, I know it. These five victims are the focus of our two-part coverage. Obviously, we could have gone on and on and talked about the other victims who were worthy of airtime as well, but for the purpose of our
Ripper coverage. We're focusing on the canonical five. Sure. In part one, we detailed the brutal slayings of the Ripper's first four confirmed victims, Marianne Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, and Catherine Eddowes.
We concluded part one by discussing a letter that was sent to a news agency allegedly penned by the killer himself. And he signed the letter as Jack the Ripper, giving the homicidal maniac a flashy name that would be forever remembered. So that is the seriously quick recap, but it will have to do because we have a lot to cover in part two, which officially begins right now.
Now. When you say he was given the moniker. Or in 20 seconds. When you say he was given the moniker that would be remembered forever, you're not. I mean, that's not a joke. This is like everyone I feel like knows. It's not superlative. At least the name Jack the Ripper. Yeah. Okay. So part two begins now. Okay. Now, now.
At first, investigators thought that the letter, which had become known as the Dear Boss letter, which I mentioned in part one. And I read. And you did beautifully. Thank you. Was a hoax. They thought it was a hoax at first. And so for a bit, they sat on it. Because remember I said that the letter was received after victim number two. Yes. We didn't really hear anything, right? And here we are now in part two, and I'm first telling you about it. Because they sat on it for a little while.
But then, on October 1st, Sir Charles Warren, who, if you remember, was the police commissioner, decided to share the letter with the public, which created seismic shockwaves everywhere. Is this before or after the person was discovered with a mutilated ear? After. Okay, so the letter, he mentions something about, I'll next mutilate an ear, and then a woman was found with...
her nose cut off, put on her jaw and her ear mutilated. So they were like, oh, it was real. Exactly. Yeah. The use of the name Jack the Ripper in the letter didn't just captivate the public's imagination. It cemented the killer's infamy for all time. For sure. The letters release intensified public fear and led to a tremendously distracting influx of letters from people claiming to be Jack the Ripper, which complicated the investigation and added to the general chaos.
The police had to bring in tons and tons of plainclothes officers from other districts to help patrol the area and keep order because now, more than ever, there was panic on the dance floor. But many historians today, and definitely people
plenty of skeptics back then too, doubt the legitimacy or authenticity of the letter still and feel that a journalist may have penned the letter and set the whole thing up. See, I feel like Jack the Ripper is a marketing genius as well as probably a great businessman because in part one,
I posed the theory, which has never been posed before, that he was involved in these workhouses and was getting inside information about women that were coming to get a room and weren't able to because they didn't have the faux pants. Okay? That's right. Yeah. So...
He may own a bunch of them and he's very savvy, but he's bored with life and people in that area. I don't think it's possible to over exaggerate the destitution that was happening there. I agree with that. Like if you didn't listen to part one, go back and listen to her description of it because it's tough. Harrowing. Yeah.
So, at this point, many people think that the letter was made up by a journalist who just wanted to create a sensational story to run with. But then, on October 16th, a man named George Lusk received a small box in the mail with another letter written in red ink, just like the first letter.
George Lusk, by the way, was the president of the Mile End Vigilance Committee, the citizen vigilante group that I mentioned in part one. Which was brand new. Brand new. Okay. Everything happened in such quick succession. So anything that happened was new. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And the letter to George said this, Mr. Lusk, sir, I send you half the kidney I took from one woman, preserved it for you.
The other piece I fried and ate it. Was very nice. I may send you the bloody knife that took it out if you only wait a while longer. Signed, Catch me when you can, Mr. Lusk. Not Jack the Ripper. Exactly. And the return address on that letter is
was From Hell, which is the Johnny Depp movie about Jack the Ripper. Oh, really? It's called From Hell. Yeah. Yet, like other letters purportedly from Jack the Ripper, because there were some, the authenticity of this letter and even the accompanying body part continues to remain a subject of ongoing debate amongst historians and ripperologists.
Did you want to say something? I don't even know if I can get into it. Just go, man. Well, you mentioned Johnny Depp in the movie From Hell. Yeah. Is that the name of it? Yep. So back when The Blueprint 3 came out and I moved to California and made my friend Jay listen to it for three weeks literally straight. Mm-hmm.
There's a line on Run This Town Tonight where he says, this is when this movie was also out. He said, and our girls are blackbirds riding with the Dillinger's. You can get more in depth if you boys really, really enough. But depth. Johnny. But there's another one. So Blackbird was a song written by Paul McCartney about the girl who led the integration of
Not effort, but she was kind of like the head. A pivotal player. She was the first one, right? So he wrote a song about that girl, Blackbird, right? Beyonce later covered Blackbird because of the meaning behind the song, which was not well known. Yeah. But Jay-Z saying, and our girls are Blackbirds just hit me right now. I mean, it's...
15 years later? That's the best. Oh, dude, Jay-Z is the best. I mean, he still has a chokehold on your heart. Oh, he does. Yeah. All right. So for the rest of October, the killings stopped. Ooh, very rare. Until. Okay. Until. Although rare in yes and no, because serial killers do have cooling off periods, but...
Unfortunately, the other shoe did drop in the early hours of November 9th. Just after 2 a.m., 25-year-old Mary Jane Kelly, victim number five of the canonical five,
The man stared. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Then, just before 4 a.m., some of Mary Jane's neighbors on Miller Court recalled hearing a soft cry from her bedroom, which they ignored because, sadly, hearing crying and yelling and fighting was not out of the ordinary in that area. It wasn't until hours later at 10.45 a.m. when her landlord, John McCarthy, knocked on her door to collect rent and
And that's when Mary Jane's completely brutalized corpse or whatever was left of it was discovered on her bed. The site was absolutely horrifying. And by recounting what John found in Mary's room, you'll understand the full terror of what happened to this poor woman. According to John, quote, "...the sight we saw, I cannot drive away from my mind. It looked more like the work of a devil than a man."
The poor woman had been completely disemboweled and her entrails had been taken out and placed on the table. Of course. It was those that I had seen when I looked through the window and took to be lumps of flesh. The woman's nose had been cut off and her face gashed and mutilated so that she was quite beyond recognition.
Both her breasts, too, had been cut clean away and placed by the side of her liver and other entrails on the table. I had heard a great deal about the Whitechapel murders, but I declared to God that I had never expected to see such a sight as this. The body was, of course, covered with blood, and so was the bed. The whole scene is more than I can describe. I hope I may never see such a sight again. Yeah. End quote.
I'm going to interject for a second because you said that the fighting, screaming, yelling was not uncommon to be heard. And I said, of course, I just want to clarify why I said, of course. Sure. Do you know, have you heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs? Yes. Okay. So for those of you who haven't, it's a theory put forth and at the bottom of it is like basic necessities, food, shelter, clothing. Above that is like
you know, community, friendship, above that is like intimacy and whatever. And then above that is self-actualization. The lower you are on that pyramid, the harder it is for you to manage your life, obviously, because your clear and present problems are survival. So like think of how good you may have it right now and how hard it is for you to not engage with people in arguments and then times that by 10,000. Yeah. Because these people are living in the worst conditions possible. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting.
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Mary Jane's remains were taken to the Shoreditch Mortuary, where it was also discovered that her throat had been cut. Additionally, Mary Jane's heart had been removed and was nowhere to be found, having been presumably taken by the killer himself. Mary Jane Kelly was eventually laid to rest in an almond oak coffin at 12 p.m. on November 19, 1888, and was later taken to the hospital.
following a funeral that took place at St. Leonard's Church in Shoreditch. Several thousand people attended Mary Jane's funeral and the burial, which took place at St. Patrick's Roman Catholic Cemetery in Layton. What no one realized at the time was that Mary Jane Kelly would become Jack the Ripper's final victim. Oh, wow.
At this stage in the case... Oh, she's already... She's already dead. Okay. But they didn't realize at the funeral that she was going to wind up being the last victim. Yeah. Which I guess is a good thing. Yes, that's why I was like, wait, why didn't I say, oh, he's done killing? At this stage in the case, after the tragic and outrageously horrific, brutal, and inhumane deaths of the canonical five...
all the coroners from the various jurisdictions involved unanimously determined that they had been killed by the same depraved killer. That killer, of course, was the infamous Jack the Ripper. Yes. Now, the authorities were under immense pressure, obviously, to apprehend the Ripper, and three dramatic developments occurred at this point that collectively illustrated this intense pressure.
One, police commissioner Sir Charles Warren resigned on the exact day on which Mary Jane Kelly was killed. I couldn't take it anymore. His departure signaled a loss of confidence in the police force's ability to solve the case and heightened public anxiety. Apparently he did try to resign like multiple times before and like it never really happened. And then it finally went through and it happened to like really officially happen on that day. Yeah. But the little sketch. Could be coincidence. Could be.
Two, Queen Victoria personally intervened with the investigation and urged Prime Minister Lord Salisbury to take decisive action. She advocated for better trained detectives and improved street lighting, reflecting the royal's concern over the competency of police.
And three, the government intervened, finally, not by offering an award for information, which they were being pressured to do and just wouldn't, but by offering a free pardon to any accomplice of the murderer who would turn the actual murderer in. Wow. That's a risky move, though. It is. As an accomplice. Totally. If there was one. If there was one. Pop quiz. Okay. What happened as a result of these three significant developments? A, nothing.
B, the U.S. learned of the seriousness of the case and had the FBI intervene. C, Scotland Yard collaborated with the fictional Sherlock Holmes in a publicity stunt to boost public morale. A. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think the FBI was formed until like... 1908. And what about Sherlock Holmes? The prototype for the modern Mastermind Detective appeared in 1887. It was probably Jack the Ripper. Yeah.
With his deerstalker hat. Right. By the way, I can't be the only person who put a baseball hat on forwards and then one on backwards and pretended to be Sherlock Holmes. Can I? I definitely did shit like that. Sherlock Holmes? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
only loser. Don't worry. I mean, no, I'm not the only genius. Genius. Excuse me. I misspoke. So nothing happened after those very three big important developments. And eventually, without any further killings, the world just continued to turn as it had before.
People began to focus once again on daily survival in the slums and making enough money somehow to have a bed to sleep in. The media moved on to other topics and the terror that once gripped Whitechapel faded into the background. Life resumed its harsh rhythm and the shadow of Jack the Ripper became just another dark chapter in the city's history.
Yet, the question that still burns in the minds of ripperologists, true crime fanatics, really anyone who knows anything about like killers in general, because like we've said a hundred times, I don't think there's anybody more famous than Jack the Ripper. The question today is, who was Jack the Ripper?
How and why did he select his victims? Was there a grander purpose? A message behind his killings, perhaps? Was he a madman driven by a personal vendetta or a calculated killer with a chilling agenda?
Well, there are theories. Three main ones that exist in the forefront of Ripperology, as I see it, are the ones that we're going to dive into. And I'd be remiss not to discuss these three, but I am well aware that there are a billion other conspiracy theories. But
But these are like the most, the ones that keep popping up. These are the ones for me that I kept seeing pop up and that, I don't know, there's a little something to them. Sure. All right. Conspiracy theory number one, Masonic slash Royal conspiracy theory.
The deaths of at least some, if not all, of Canonical Five were part of a sinister plot involving three specific men of the upper echelon, John Netley, Walter Sickert, and Sir William Gull. Okay. Meaning Jack the Ripper, as a one-man entity, never existed.
According to this theory, which is deeply discussed and supported by Stephen Knight and his bestseller, Jack the Ripper, The Final Solution, the murders were part of a Masonic conspiracy to protect Prince Albert Victor, Queen Victoria's grandson, from a scandal. And that scandal, although there is no concrete evidence to authenticate it, involved rumors and suspicions that Prince Albert Victor was a client at a mail brothel on Cleveland Street in London.
The scandal threatened the reputation of the British aristocracy and brought issues of homosexuality and morality into the public eye during a time when homosexuality was illegal and highly stigmatized. It was illegal back then? Yeah. Oh, wow. So in an effort to quash the rumors, a group of individuals, including John Netley, Walter Sickert, and Sir William Gull, conspired to murder sex workers who allegedly knew about Prince Albert Victor's indiscretions.
Additionally, this theory posits that the killings were intended not just to silence the actual people who knew about what was going on, but to send a broader message to others who might have similar knowledge or inklings that if they open their mouths, they will be slaughtered. It's also a very clear case of obfuscation, meaning this story was getting some buzz before it hit the press and to keep that from happening, they just started killing people to make that a big story. Okay. So you may be asking...
how is this a Masonic theory? Isn't it just a potential royal cover-up conspiracy theory? Well, it's both or neither, depending on your position. But let me explain the Masonic connection as posited by this theory. So the supposed Masonic connections of Sir William Gull, who was the Queen's former physician...
and possibly the other two alleged perpetrators as well, suggest that the Freemasons were involved in protecting the perpetrators due to their secretive and powerful network.
And there were many supposed connections between the killings and certain Masonic rituals that form the basis of this conspiracy. I could do an entire episode on this alone, but I'm going to take my own liberty here and focus on the elements that I find most compelling. But for any Ripperologists, I realize that there's a billion other points I could be raising. Here's my take on the theory involving the connections between Freemasons and the Jack the Ripper murders. One. Two.
The graffiti message on the wall near where Catherine Edo's body was found with a piece of the bloody apron. If you recall, the message said, the Jews, J-U-W-E-S, are the men that will not be blamed for nothing. Okay, here's the potential Masonic connection. In Freemasonry, the three Jews, which is J-U-W-E-S,
stand for, or shortened for, or whatever, Jubela, Jubelo, and Jubelum. And they are three ruffians who are said to have murdered Hiram Abif, the architect of Solomon's temple, according to Masonic legend. Of, like, what?
long time ago. Oh, yeah. Okay. And they symbolize treachery and violence. Jubelum. Jubelo. Jubelo. And Jubela. Jubelo, Jubela, Jubelum. Yeah. The three Jews. How would, okay. So, okay. So if the message, stay with me here. If the,
message, the Jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing, is interpreted through a Masonic lens, it could be suggesting that the murderers, like those three ruffians, will escape blame or responsibility for their actions, implying a form of justice or vengeance that will go unpunished.
The phrase might also imply that, like the three Jews, J-U-W-E-S, who were eventually caught and punished for their crime, the Ripper's actions are part of a larger hidden plan of justice or retribution that aligns with Masonic beliefs. In the 19th century, virtually everyone who was anyone was a Mason, including the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, Sir Charles Warren.
And remember how I mentioned that he erased the entire message almost immediately? Yeah, yeah. Even though the city police were arguing to not erase it at all, like to keep it, did he see the code in the graffiti, knew that the murderer or murderers were members of the Freemasons and removed it to protect them?
Wait, I'm sorry. So the Jubelo, Jubelo, Jubelum were active in the 1880s or what? No, no, no, no. In 2000 years ago. Exactly. Okay. All right. And so the reason I brought up Jack the Ripper as a businessman before and owning all the whatever real estate is because I meant to say that he was probably obviously paying off whoever he could to do whatever he wanted to do because-
To kill in that kind of an environment with that many people around? You kind of feel like you need a level of protection. There has to be a level of protection, right? So if this is the case too, then those three potential perpetrators, Sir William Gull and the other two that I mentioned...
Yeah. And they were killing to protect the prince, and then they were being protected by the Freemasons. Or if it was one person, and money was probably very hard to come by back then, even for police officers. Mm-hmm. He was giving them a little extra to be like, listen, I just, these people are not, they're not even real.
Real, they're nothing people. There it is. You actually found a way to work it in. I did. They're not even supposed to be in the area. So then he was like, I'm just going to kill them and I'm going to give you like, you know. Stooped them a little something. Ten shillings. Right.
I liked it better when you said faux pence. Faux pence. I don't know what a shilling or a pence is. Okay. I don't care. And I don't care. Was it like cents and dollars? Is pence a cent and shillings a dollar? I'll tell you what. You look into it. Don't even get me started on quid. You let us know. Okay. All right.
Two, in terms of the Masonic, potential Masonic connection, the throat cutting and mutilations. So here's the potential Masonic connection. In Masonic initiation rituals, there are symbolic gestures related to the penalty for breaking Masonic oaths, which involve throat slitting, tongue torn out, heart removed, or body disembowelment.
Potential meaning, if the throat-cutting disembelliment and removal of the heart in Mary Kelly's case in the Ripper murders were interpreted through a Masonic lens, it could suggest that the victims were being punished for breaking some sort of oath or revealing secrets. Not that they were Masons, but
but the people exacting justice were using Masonic guidelines. So I guess, yeah, I mean, listen, the Masons, I'm sure, were the biggest clients of the sex workers. Probably. And they probably talk and, you know. Exactly. Additionally, the slashes on some of the women's faces have been interpreted by some as being Masonic symbols. Remember how I said they were like, sort of like upside down triangles beneath the eyes, slashed into the skin. So, number three in
In terms of the Masonic connection, the brass rings being removed from Annie Chapman's fingers. Remember I mentioned that. Here's the potential Masonic connection. Brass is a sacred metal to Masons, particularly with the construction of King Solomon's Temple, which holds a central place in Masonic tradition and ritual. Brass objects are often used in Masonic lodges and rituals.
Also, before initiation, masons are divested of all their brass, symbolizing the removal of material wealth and external status. And this act represents the idea that all men are equal within the lodge. Again, Annie Chapman had the contents of her pockets emptied and arranged at her feet in potentially some kind of ritualistic manner. But more to the point, her brass rings were entirely missing.
So this Mason thing is like... So wasn't the whole point of joining the Freemasons is for material wealth and power and status? I think it's probably what you gain in that vein once you become a Mason. Okay. I could be wrong. I'm not a Mason. But let me just tell you what the potential meaning, obviously, I mean, it's pretty clear, but this theory suggests that the murders were either committed or covered up by individuals with Masonic affiliations. Okay.
to protect the monarchy and other high-profile individuals. And then, obviously, the last potential Masonic connection, and this is simple, but evasion of capture. The influence and network of the Freemasons are often cited as reasons why the killer was never caught. The idea is that Masonic connections within the police and judiciary...
help to shield the killer from capture and prosecution. You gotta let the cops and the judges into the Freemasons if you're gonna be doing shady shit. For sure. Yeah. Now, why would the killer bother implementing all these signs and rituals? Well, arguably, he knew that if the police saw signs of Freemasonry at the scene, then he'd be immune.
So he scattered Masonic symbolism around his victims like confetti, knowing that he was essentially placing a giant shield around himself. He was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I have a PBA card. Thank you very much. Like the Salt Bae? Let me go. Yeah. Save on Cox Internet when you add Cox Mobile and get fiber-powered internet at home and unbeatable 5G reliability on the go. So whether you're playing a game at home. Yes, cool. Or attending one live. What?
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Okay, so that's all I'm giving you on conspiracy theory number one. Okay. All right, because we got to keep moving. Yeah. I can't believe that was one conspiracy theory. You're good. You're doing good. I'm doing great. Conspiracy theory number two, the Jill the Ripper theory. Oh, you love that. This theory posits that Jack the Ripper was actually a woman, often referred to as Jill the Ripper. And the rationale behind this theory includes...
A female murderer would have been able to move about more freely and attract less suspicion, especially in the company of other women.
Two, according to this theory, Jill the Ripper may have been a midwife who would have had the anatomical knowledge to perform the mutilations and a reason to be covered in blood without drawing suspicion. Because to your multiple points, how? How in these packed, dense areas was somebody able to commit these atrocities and just presumably freely roam? Yeah. Three.
If Jill had indeed been a midwife, she may have been performing backstreet abortions. This could be the reason why Mary Kelly's clothes were found neatly folded on a chair not too far from her corpse. So she was the only one who was like completely disrobed and her clothing, because she was murdered in her apartment, were folded. Perhaps she undressed willingly as part of a medical abortion procedure only to be preyed upon.
Now, in terms of a suspect under this theory, a woman named Mary Percy is often cited as being a potential suspect as she was convicted of a similarly brutal murder around the same time. She killed her lover's wife, Phoebe Hogg, and their infant child, Tiggy Hogg.
using blunt force trauma and slashing their throats. She was arrested in 1890, which also may explain why the murders suddenly stopped. Now, they stopped well before then, but... Yeah. Pop quiz. Okay. My good sir. What percentage of the victims of female serial killers are female? A, 10 to 20. Okay. B, 30 to 40. C, 50 to 60. Wow. Okay.
30 to 40? Yes. I mean, you are crushing it. I am answering based on my divine instinct here. I'm just letting the answer come to me. Leave the door open, let God in. We found you a nice soft place to land. Wrap your ass up. And it's going to happen. Now, while we're on the topic of naming possible suspects, I'm going to take a tiny little detour from our conspiracy theory discussion. Slight detour.
Because I want to throw out two more additional names in the way of suspects. Keep in mind, there are approximately 20 to 25 primary suspects who have received significant attention in the Jack the Ripper, the case. Females or males or both? Males, mostly males. However, the total number of individuals suggested as suspects over the year exceeds 100. And I ain't dragging you down that road. We're on a tiny little detour.
This extensive list includes individuals with varying degrees of credibility and connection to the case. I'm not able to run you through 100 or even the 25, but in addition to Mary Percy, I will throw out three more suspects cited in the Jack the Ripper case based on historical investigation, contemporary police suspicions, and modern analysis. Okay. One, Montague John Druitt.
Wow.
Additionally, he was also seen in the Whitechapel area around the time of the Jack the Ripper murders. And then on November 9th, 1888, just seven weeks after the murder of Mary Jane Kelly, who was the last of the canonical five, Druitt's body was found floating in the Thames. Investigators believe that the cause of death was suicide and that he had been at the bottom of the river for several weeks around the time of Mary Jane Kelly's murder.
murder. Okay. So here's somebody who is considered sexually insane, an educated man. He's out of his mind with sex stuff. I mean, good guy, but really. Oxford educated. So he could have been studying anatomy. Yeah. All right. Lived in the area and presumably killed himself after Mary Jane Kelly. And then after she died, there were no other victims because it's when he died.
Oh. If he's the guy. Yes. Okay. Suspect number two or three, if we're counting Jill the Ripper, Aaron Kosminski.
Aaron Kosminski was a Polish-Jewish immigrant who lived in Whitechapel and worked as a barber and was known to have severe mental health issues. In fact, he was eventually committed to an asylum. Several highly esteemed police officers believe that Aaron Kosminski was behind the Jack the Ripper murders based on his very strong hatred of women and the fact that he displayed homicidal tendencies, which likely is why he wound up in a mental health facility. Also, interestingly, although this is disputed, but...
Like everything else, everything is disputed in this case because we don't actually know who did it. It's 150 years ago. Modern mitochondrial DNA analysis on a shawl purportedly found on Catherine Ito links Kuzminski. Did I say it wrong? Because you had a little smile. No, I'm just thinking about like the reliability of mitochondrial DNA analysis on a garment that's 150 years old. Yeah. It doesn't get me going. Okay. Okay.
Not impressed. Got it. Tell me when you got something real. Suspect number three or four. Some sources say, oh, I didn't tell you his name, Francis Tumblety. Yeah, it doesn't sound like the guy.
Some sources say that he was born in Ireland, while others suggest that he was actually born in Canada. Whatever. What we do know is that he moved to Rochester, New York with his family within the first decade or so of his life. As a young adult, he gained employment working at a drugstore and was apprenticed to a doctor there.
He also earned additional money peddling pornographic content on the nearby canal. A little side hustle. This guy had an OnlyFans business back in... He did. Yeah. And apprenticed with a doctor. So we have anatomical knowledge and a liking to porn, which was like a much bigger deal then than it is today. Yeah. Well, I've told you about the link back to pornography. Yeah. Before, yeah.
I think it was Ted Bundy who interviewed... Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer interviewed... I think it was Bundy. A bunch of serial killers in prison, and every single one of them had roots that traced back to early exposure to porn. Destructive. Yeah. Yeah.
Throughout his travels, Francis posed as a doctor under the alias Dr. Blackburn and claimed to have secret knowledge of mystical cures and medicines from India. But historical research refers to him as a quack, so that's highly unlikely. Yeah. And not just... Listen, the porn thing is... You said it was destructive. That's not like a moral judgment. No. It's more like it just is destructive. Well, it's also... They were exposed to pornography at very, very young ages. Yes.
and like got into like brutal pornography. Well, if you start that young and it's progressive, you're going to be, you know, 15, 20 years ahead, somebody who discovers it at 20 and maybe is. Right. Okay. So he's a quack, this guy, Francis. Okay. Yeah. That said. Francis Tomblety. Yeah. He was arrested in Canada twice, once for performing illegal abortions. So we got to think for, you know, he knows lady bits. Yeah. Then again, for the sudden and highly suspicious death of a patient. Okay.
in 1865 while living in Missouri under the fake name, again, Dr. Blackburn, it backfired on him using that name for which of the following reasons? PQ. PQ. Why did using the name Dr. Blackburn backfire on Francis? Blackburn singing in the dead of night.
A, he was confused with a notorious blackmailer who had targeted high-ranking officials in the U.S., resulting in a swift police investigation. Okay, so he's using her name. B, the actual Dr. Blackburn was a well-known revolutionary wanted for plotting against the British government, which got him extradited. C, he was mistakenly taken for the real Dr. Blackburn, who was someone wanted by police in connection with the murder of Abraham Lincoln. Whoa, Blackburn extradited or Abraham Lincoln. Wow.
Wow. I'm sorry, black male. Yeah, I got it. Or Abraham Lincoln. Great memory. Oh, fuck. B feels right. It's wrong. Well, feelings aren't facts, okay?
See? Yes! That's the, yeah, that's a crazy one. Come on, that's insane. I had to put that in. Yeah. Oh my God. I was like blown away. Little bits of information like this, I get hung up on. He was wanted in conjunction with the- He used the name Dr. Blackburn and Dr. Blackburn was somebody wanted by police in connection with the murder of Abraham Lincoln. And this putz uses Dr. Blackburn as his alias. So now he's being pursued. What?
Wow. You can't make it up. And he's a doctor? No, he was apprenticing with a doctor. Remember, he was a quack. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Francis Tumblety, Dr. Blackburn. Yes. Abraham Lincoln. Sometime after that, Francis was known to be living in London by the summer of 1888. And due to the timing and his seedy way of life, he was placed under investigation for being Jack the Ripper. Yeah.
Interestingly, at the time, there had been rumors that an American doctor had approached the London Pathology Museum in an attempt to purchase the uteruses of deceased women. Could this have been Francis Tomblety?
Yeah. Yeah. Could be fucking anybody. Eventually, Tumblety was arrested for having homosexual relations in 1888, which was illegal at the time, as I mentioned. He wound up skipping bail, fled London, and basically disappeared in the U.S. Well, it did strike me as odd that you were talking about him being in the U.S. in Missouri and wherever. Brought it back. Yeah. Circled back, if you will. You did circle it back. All right, so...
A hundred suspects. Those are the ones I cherry picked. And that was part of conspiracy theory number two. And now we're going to go finish up here with conspiracy theory number three. The last one. Yes. The final frontier. Jack the Ripper and prolific American serial killer H.H. Holmes were one in the same. All right. Yeah, he's playing an away game.
H.H. Holmes is known as one of America's first serial killers, infamous for his horrific murder castle in Chicago during the 1893 World's Fair. We're definitely going to be covering him at some point. Okay. Here are the key points of this theory. One.
Yeah. Yeah.
Also, Holmes attended medical school and was known to dismember his victims. Number three, both killers displayed traits associated with psychopathy, such as charm, manipulation, and a complete lack of empathy for their victims. This is like obviously based on profiling of who we believe Jack the Ripper was. Yes.
The theories are endless. That's it for Conspiracy 3. Okay. Oh, that's it? Yeah. Wow. But the bottom line remains that more than a century later, the identity of the murderer behind the canonical five remains shrouded in mystery. Before we conclude, let's move on to the fun stuff and apply modern day techniques to fill in many of the blanks that remain outstanding since 1888.
Mitochondrial blanks. Right. A psychological profile of Jack the Ripper based on modern criminological and psychological theories obviously aims to understand his behaviors, motivations, and characteristics. Yes. And while the identity of Jack the Ripper remains unknown, profilers have still been able to construct profiles based on the nature of the crimes and historical context.
Interestingly, many experts credit the investigation of Jack the Ripper with starting the criminal profiling field. As the surgeon who assisted in several victims' autopsies, Dr. Thomas Bond provided police not only with physical details of the crime, but also with psychological characteristics that he believed to be associated with the manner of the killings. I thought that was interesting, that like this case, they believe, and many people believe that
launched profiling. In any event, here is the first ever profile of Jack the Ripper that was conducted in America by FBI profilers John Douglas and Roy Hazelwood.
The Ripper did not kill for the purposes of torture, money, or any financial gain. His methods suggest that he killed quickly and that the mutilation of the body was the key driving force behind the murder. Meaning what, Tank? He was a product killer. Very, very, very good. Yeah. Amazing. Oh, pop quiz. Wow, that surprised you. You did. It's a true or false. Okay. True or false. Jack the Ripper fits the clinical definition of a sadist. False. False.
Can you say it like Dwight Schrute? Because he goes, false. False. Very good. Yeah. Jack was not a traditional sadist in the sense that his infliction of pain was giving him pleasure. And we know this because he strangled his victims first and then, after death, performed his ritual of mutilation. This suggests a killer who wants to dominate his victim with power and sexual violence.
His actions show a deep resentment towards his victim where he must destroy who they are, as once passed out and on the ground, the slaughter would end, but the mutilation would begin. In that vein, perhaps he was a mission-oriented killer as well, intent on eliminating a particular group of people, in this case sex workers, whom he perceived as undesirable or unworthy.
In 1888, this kind of killer would have been completely unknown to most police forces in the world as the idea of profiling began to take shape really in the latter half of the 20th century, particularly through the work of the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit, which later became the Behavioral Analysis Unit.
Plus, under the guise of, you know, paying for sex, it's like...
It is highly likely that Jack had attacked other women in the Whitechapel area prior to committing the first murder, which were either unreported or simply not linked to Ripper by the police. He likely would have waited for his unknowing victim to make the first move. As sex workers, it was sort of a job requirement, if you will, to approach potential clients, making them the ideal prey for a predator like Jack.
Although he did not have sex with his victims, the attacks do have strong sexual suggestions, as his initial attack focused mostly on the genital region of the body. And it's possible, just knowing this, that the killer was impotent or, in an ironic twist, that he feared women. By de-sexing his victims, he was removing their power to scare him.
If this was the case, then he may have been seeking revenge on a dominant female figure in his life, likely a mother who abused him mentally, physically, and or sexually in his youth. Yeah. As he grew older, all women would come to represent his mother. Of course, yeah. It's also entirely possible that she too may have been a sex worker. His mother? Yeah. Okay. Which is why he perhaps targeted sex workers. Yeah.
Now, taking the original police reports and medical evidence, Douglas and Hazel would compile a list of 11 character traits that Jack the Ripper would have had. I'm just going to read the list. Okay. One, he would have been a white male.
2. He would have been between 25 and 35 years old. 3. He would have lived locally to the Whitechapel slash Spitalfields area. 4. He was a loner, most likely unmarried. 5. As a child, he would have had an absent father and a dominant mother. 6. He would have had a mental or physical disability or deformity which made him feel different from others. 7.
Seven, he would have worked a solitary job, which kept him away from social situations and regular interactions. Eight, he would have been seen as quiet, shy, and a bit odd to those who knew him. Nine, he'd have a deep-seated hidden aggression that would explode during bouts of low self-esteem. And there were only 10. I just messed up my numbers. And 10, he would lack guilt or remorse and would have even felt that his crimes were justified. Number nine was a little scary.
Well, my numbers are off. So which one was that? Bouts of anger and rage during periods of feeling low self-esteem. Yeah. Yep. I don't know why. Well, because it's a little relatable. Not to me. Just kidding. I don't know to who. Yeah. No, I mean when you don't feel good about yourself. Mm-hmm.
You want other people to not feel good. Yeah. And you do. You have outbursts and you lash out. By the way, this isn't a tank's tidbit, but the saying misery loves company, joy loves company too. So stop saying just misery loves company. I like that a lot. Yeah. I like that more. Yeah. It's better. Way better.
So one of the questions I was left with at the end of this case was, why did he stop? Why was Mary Kelly, Mary Jane Kelly, the fifth and final victim, if all signs pointed to the fact that he was only continuing to escalate, especially since mutilation killers rarely stop unless they get caught or they're close to getting caught?
So really, maybe that's the answer. Maybe he felt he was getting too close to getting caught, or perhaps he was caught by family or a member of the Freemasons who had him committed or something like that to protect the organization. So you're saying it wasn't escalating anymore, or it was? It was, and then it just stopped. And that's unbelievable.
uncharacteristic for a mutilation killer to just stop unless they're caught. But the first one, the second one was worse than the first one. The third was not because it was taken out on the fourth. But was the fifth worse than the fourth? The fourth one was the face mutilation. The fifth one or the fourth? The fourth. And then the fifth was beyond, she was in her apartment, which is an escalation in and of itself. Yeah. And her heart was missing. Yeah.
and her organs were on the table. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. I shan't continue. The Jack the Ripper case, steeped in the fog of Victorian London and shrouded in mystery, remains one of history's most chilling and unsolved crimes. As we reflect on the brutal murders of Marian Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Edos, and Mary Jane Kelly, we are reminded of the vulnerability and fragility of human life.
Beyond the gruesome details, the case serves as a somber reflection on the intersection of poverty, neglect, and violence that plagues the East End of London and beckons us to remember the victims not just as names in a ledger of death, but as women who lived and struggled in a world that failed to protect them. In remembering Jack the Ripper, we must also commit to building a society where such horrors are not just rare...
but eradicated through empathy, vigilance, and the unwavering pursuit of justice. I like eradicated. Yeah. And that is the two-part coverage of Jack the Ripper. Wow, very good. I know a lot about Jack the Ripper now. Cool. Not as much as you, but... Well, I don't know about that, because... Well, there was stuff that you left out. Yeah, I had to, or we'd be here for like three weeks straight. I couldn't do that. Don't say it unless you mean it. I mean it, big time.
Just kidding. Okay. No, I mean for another case. Now I don't want to hear it another second about Jack the Ripper. Got it. Yeah, very good. Excellent work. Thank you. Thank you for doing all that heavy lifting. I feel like we've done many serial killers, obviously, but this is like, I mean, a fixture. This is like somehow on a different level. For some reason. Right. And I'll be honest with you, I don't think it was that bad.
Five or 11? Like, Robert Pickton killed 49 women. Yeah, I can see where you're saying that. I think the allure comes from the fact that it was never... He was never found and he had this fancy phrase, this fancy moniker. Jack the Ripper. You get what I'm saying. He had this fancy freeway about him.
Also, all the conspiracy theories, you know. And the deaths were absolutely brutal. Terrible and very close together. And then they just stopped. And found by people. Which is very rare, like you said. Yeah. I feel like, you know, he's the goat, I guess. Because, and I hate that that sounds positive, but I think the reason his name rings out so, you know, far and wide is because...
Two things. One, he was never found out. Two, he stopped. Like, you know, I'm about to make the dumbest comparison. Like, Seinfeld took a show off the air when it was at number one. Yeah. That is so... Rare is not even the word. Right. He left on top. Nobody leaves on top. Right. He left on... I'm not saying Jack the Ripper's on top. What I'm saying is...
He was either able to stop or, like you said, he was killed or killed himself or whatever. Got locked up or got caught or got silenced. The fact that we don't know is it leaves room for all kind of making, you know, stuff. Yeah, all these theories and stuff. Yeah, it's wild. I can't believe we did Jack the Ripper, though. Me either. I'm so happy about that. Me too.
Do you have a tidbit? I do have a tidbit. A tank's tidbit. Tank's titties. You're calling them tidbits now, which I don't understand. I don't know. I don't know why I'm so formal. Yeah. I prefer that you just show us your titties. Tank's titties. I saw something the other day on the internet about a girl saying that she didn't like the way she looked in pictures. She didn't think she looked pretty in pictures. She thinks she looks fine in real life, but she doesn't look great in pictures to her. Okay. This person wrote this comment. I mean, it was fucking powerful.
They basically likened her dilemma to seeing a sunset or seeing the moon and trying to take a picture of it and not being able to capture all the beauty of it.
Oh my gosh. I'm never going to hate a picture again, I feel like. Yeah, because a camera doesn't capture who you are. It doesn't capture your essence or your... That's where the beauty is. Yeah, for real. And which is funny because, you know, I got married before the whole Tinder hinge bumble craze. But I did a little match.com, you know? And I remember meeting a girl on Match or from Match and...
Pictures look good. She looked pretty, whatever. When I met her in real life, it was definitely the same girl, but it wasn't also. It was like, oh, no, I don't. Oh, that I feel like that happens more frequently where you see a picture and you're impressed or it jives with you, however you want to say it. Yeah, yeah. And then they present in such a shitty way that any beauty you saw is gone. But I've seen people who don't look great in pictures and look...
Way better in real life. Well, that's just it. It can go both ways is my point. Yeah, which just leads me to believe even more in like the spirit of somebody that you can pick up on it or tune into it or whatever you want to say. Yeah. It's not all about the way you look.
Agreed. In a 2D format. Agreed. Completely. I really, really do agree with that. Yeah. So don't be so hard on yourself if you don't like the way you look in pictures. You are a sunset. You are. And unique and beautiful. Yeah. And cherished and valuable. 100%. Beautiful tidbit. Not going to dispute that. Thank you very much. Wouldn't look great in a picture, but it was good in real life. Exactly.
All right. So I guess we'll leave them off with that. Yeah. I want to thank you guys for listening. Thank you for doing all the work. My pleasure. Thank you for being a great co-host with Tremendous Insight Per Juge. Thank you very much. It is such a goddamn pleasure doing this podcast with you. Yeah, me too. And what you bring to the table. Yes. Literally. I'm at, I have it on the table. You're at the table. Yes, you are. So thank you for listening and we'll see you guys at the next episode. Thanks for listening. Bye. Bye.