Deep Dive
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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I'm your co-host, Tank Sinatra, here with my co-host, Kendrick Lamar. You wish. I wish. Investigators later. That's actually better for me. Aw. Yeah, I prefer. I don't know why. Only because you'd be way too obsessed. I'd be so excited. Yeah, I mean, without getting too into it,
I'm very into Kendrick Lamar. I'm well aware. So I've been rapping, right? I've been rapping since we got here, since I was born. I was going to say since forever. But I'm really on it now. And you said, how do I learn the words so fast? Yeah. I don't. Wait. Yes. Because let's just tell everyone, you just got into Kendrick like,
three days ago? Yeah, like more. Okay, whatever. You're in front of me rapping every single lyric and you know the meaning behind it and you're talking about it and you're well-versed. I like rap. You just started down this path. Well, there's a website called genius.com, which I have to give credit to because that website has- Are you on the panel? No. Genius. Okay. I'm not so quick on the uptake there. I still don't know what you're talking about. I was
I was implying you're a genius. You're on it. On the panel? Like on the, whatever, creating the website. Forget it. Okay. So what you said made no sense. It's not that I didn't get it. Got it. Thank you for thinking I'm a genius. No, but I did make jzfordummies.com before Rap Genius was started. And I kind of think they maybe stole my idea. If not, they plucked it out of the ether just like I did, but they obviously went much further with it. So anyway, I take lyrics seriously because mumbling through a song is so disrespectful to
to the creator. Like they took time and wrote those words. Yeah. Well, you also, you can get more into it if you understand what they're actually saying. Oh yeah. It's beneficial for you as the listener as well. Like once a rapper, and we're doing psychopedia today. We're not doing a Kendrick Lamar episode, although I would love to. Another time, a bonus episode. Yeah. Once like I cracked the code of the flow. No,
No other way to say it? Mm-hmm. It becomes almost like an audio book and I have to listen fast, but I can actually hear what they're saying. I told you before, everything sounds like gibberish to me before it clicks in my brain. Yeah.
Remember CDs having the lyrics in the album? Oh, yeah. That was amazing. That was the best. I studied it. I still know every word to every Alanis Morissette song because of that. You're uninvited. I'm definitely learning that on piano, maybe performing it at some point. That would be great. Yeah. I, when I was about 12, sat down in front of my cassette player, stereo, whatever it was,
And listened to I Get Around by Digital Underground and Tupac for like three hours and wrote down Tupac's lyrics because I wanted to like be able to say what he said. Maybe I was 14. I'm sure you nailed it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't know the words anymore. But anyway, we are doing a true crime case today. And as always...
I know nothing. You have all the info over there. You're going to divulge it little by little. And I'm going to ask questions and try and keep up and maybe ask questions that you have or, you know, clarify or whatever. Or maybe I space out because I'm thinking about Kendrick and I need a little refresher. I'm here for it. On what's been happening. But yeah.
You're the brains. I'm the... Brains. Oh, yeah. Brains and brain. Yeah. Brain. I'm a little bit of the brawn. You are pretty tough. I'm tough. Tangopedia today? Can't wait. Oh, my God. Can't wait. You have no idea what you're getting yourself into. I just bring it. Which, for those of you who don't know, patreon.com slash psychopedia pod for now, a bonus true crime episode per month at the Little Freak level. So there's Little Freaks and Semen Demons.
Go just join and be a little freaky. You get one Tankopedia a month, one brand new case per month. And then at the Seaman Demon level, you get Unhinged. But that's like, you know, if you want. That's four extra episodes though, Unhinged, a month. Oh, yeah. Of some banter, revisiting old cases. I let Tank go off the rails. He's not on a short leash over there. He does. You don't know what you're getting. You buckle up and you brace for impact. I want to say I'm off the leash over there.
You actually chewed it? Yeah. And now you're walking yourself. I had to get away. Like Cashy does. Yeah. Picks up his leash and just walks himself. That's it. I like that. So yeah, it's a lot, but it's fun. And if you love us, what we're trying to say is that there's a way to get more of us. Yes. Yes. Patreon.com slash psychopedia pod. And if you love us...
Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, and YouTube. We're on YouTube now. I don't know if you can tell, but we are really stepping our fucking game up. It looks so good in here. I know. I know. We have one more piece of the puzzle, which you'll see when you see. But yeah, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, subscribe, and then share it with people. Leave us a review, a comment, whatever. You can do that on Spotify and Apple and YouTube. On YouTube, do your part. Leave a heart. Did you see what somebody left? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Fucking, you bet I did. It was good. Yeah, it was very good. Before we get into it, what do you want to say about your personal trainer? No, it comes later in the case. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, very good. All right. Well, without further shabizness. Ooh. I know, it's right there. Yes, from the vault. Yeah. Well, it's in my brain. Without further shabizness, let's get into this case and see what you have to tell us. Okay, let's go.
In the shadowed corners of countless homes, the battle cry of domestic violence often goes unheard, muffled by the thick walls of fear and isolation. Each year, millions find themselves trapped in the vice of an intimate terror where love is contorted into coercion and the home becomes not a sanctuary, but a battleground.
Wow. Wow.
because the psychological chains of abuse, tightened with every threat, every blow, are as crippling as the physical ones.
Yet this is a war that often rages silently, without witness. The battlefields are secluded, hidden away in the private recesses of domestic life, leaving the warriors—mothers, children, girlfriends, boyfriends, husbands—fighting their abusers alone. Their weapons are not swords or shields, but broken spirits and shattered wills, mustering the courage to seek help against overwhelming odds.
The fight against domestic violence requires more than passive sympathy. It demands a collective uprising, a global mobilization of resources, empathy, and action. Only then can we hope to assist the countless voices stifled under the tyranny of intimate terror. And only then can we begin to transform homes from battlefields back into safe havens.
Sadly, this did not happen in time to save the young life of an innocent, beautiful 31-year-old woman in Kazakhstan named Saltanat Nukhanova. Saltanat was married to the former minister of economy in Kazakhstan, a man 13 years her senior named Kuyande Bishanbaev. And we're going to refer to him as Bishanbaev the rest of the case.
As the former Minister of Economy, his powerful hands once sculpted policies that determined the fortunes of millions. Yet those same hands, once celebrated for their visionary prowess in shaping national economic strategies, transformed from tools of creation to agents of destruction. Because for eight hours straight...
they committed grievous and prolonged acts of violence against his own wife, Sultanat.
Today, we are carrying Sultanat's torch not only by telling her story and giving her the voice that was so callously silenced, but by joining in the global demand for greater protection for victims of domestic violence. To that end, please note that we will, of course, be discussing domestic violence today at length. So if this topic is triggering in any way, please listen with caution.
Now, with all of that said, let's delve into this extremely timely and critical case, which in many arenas has become known as the OJ Simpson case of Kazakhstan. Really? Mm-hmm. If I'm not mistaken, my mother took us to a shelter for battered women a couple of times. Really? She volunteered there. Yeah. And like, you talk about the collective uprising. Yeah. How about any of you who are experiencing this, just send me your address. Okay.
And I will personally go take care of it. How about that? Like with your muscles? Yeah, because I don't like that at all. Yeah. I don't like anybody. I know it happens male to female, female to male, female to female, male to male. I know it's whatever, across the board, but anybody who like garners your trust and
And then uses that as a way to keep you in a emotional, physical, oh my God. Fuck you. You're a piece of shit. You're a coward. I hope you figure it out. You know what I mean? Like this. No, you're a piece of shit. That's fine. You can say it. Yeah, you're a piece of shit. But I don't want to think that people are not able to recover from it. Like maybe you have an experience that's so bad where you go, holy shit, I'm a fucking piece of shit. I got to make major changes. Mm-hmm.
Well, usually to the cycle of violence and abuse, which we've discussed so many times before. Exactly. It didn't start with that person. They don't get a pass and it's inexcusable, but understanding background and context is important. There are reasons. Speaking of context, I'd like to start out by first explaining the setting of today's case, as well as the political and social climate of the oil rich nation that we are hanging out in today.
Okay. Kazakhstan. So Kazakhstan is a vast and diverse country situated in Central Asia, straddling both Europe and Asia, and it gained its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991.
It is the world's ninth largest country by land area and the largest landlocked country spanning from the Caspian Sea in the west to the Altai Mountains at its eastern border with China and Russia. Yeah. And it means that Kazakhstan depends on neighboring countries with coastal access for like import and export activities. Okay. You want to hear something that's so annoying? Do you know when you rent like, let's say I've tried to rent like a lake house on Airbnb. Mm-hmm. The house is on the lake. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay.
On the lake, they have canoes, all that, whatever. Every single time when it gets down to it, they can't go in the lake.
They have to go around because that another home owns that two feet of land. Bro, figure it out. I just want to go in the water. What was the point of renting that house? If you stop, like you have to take your canoes and schlep somewhere else. I got to walk 500 yards to the left. Like, no, thanks. I'm going in here. Whatever. I'll fight the guy. You know, been doing a lot of jujitsu. Like I said, so. Are you going for like a belt?
In jujitsu? No, I mean, I have a belt, but... But are you trying to rise the ranks? I'm just curious. No, I'm trying to just get to the point where I can go exercise and not hurt myself by trying too hard and squeezing too hard, just relaxing into it. And it's like, it's happening now, finally. Okay, very good. Yeah.
Kazakhstan is ethnically diverse and home to more than 130 different ethnic groups, with Kazakhs making up the majority of the population at 68%. Russians are the second largest ethnic group, comprising around 19% of the population, followed by Uzbeks at 3% of the population, and Tatars at around 1% of the population. This is interesting shit. Oh, very. To me. Nice. Oh, God. Yeah.
I didn't mention it yet. I know. That Borat is from Kazakhstan. This is self-control that I'm looking at right here. Yeah, I mean, I'm trying. You're going to lose it. I can't wait till my sons discover Borat, but that's a whole other episode. I'm so excited for them. I mean, you can always introduce it to them now. Nah, it's too much. Okay. Yeah. So while Kazakhstan has been undergoing gradual political reforms, it continues to be dominated by authoritarian governance, leading to ongoing internal tensions and debates about human rights
and freedom of expression. So Kazakhstan operates under a presidential form of government where the president holds significant executive power.
And while this nation has made strides towards democratization, it has traditionally been characterized by this strong presidential system where significant power is concentrated in the hands of the president. Oh, so they vote for the president, but there's no like checks and balance system with the different branches? There are, there are, but... But whatever. It's, yeah. And this comes into play in a little bit in the case. So just keep it in
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
He wielded considerable influence over his respective domain. In Bishenbaev's case, his role would have positioned him as a key player in shaping the economic landscape of Kazakhstan during his tenure, which only lasted for about two years. Really? Because on November 21st, 2017, Bishenbaev, along with 22 other high-ranking defendants,
was arrested on charges related to corruption and financial fraud. No. Specifically involving embezzlement and bribery connected to the construction of facilities for an international exhibition that took place in Kazakhstan's capital called Expo 2017. That is so surprising. Truly, I'm floored right now. Government officials were found guilty of corruption. I know. It's unheard of. I can't believe it. Right? Right.
It turned out that Bishambaev misappropriated millions of dollars worth of funds during the project. Therefore, he was convicted of this financial crime and sentenced to 10 years in prison in December 2017. Wow. However, in August 2019, just two years into his sentence...
Bishan Baib was released from prison as part of a mass amnesty marking the 25th anniversary of Kazakhstan's constitution, which allowed for the reduction of sentences for certain prisoners who had served at least half of their sentence time, which he did not, and demonstrated good behavior. Yeah. Very lucky timing on that, by the way. Yeah, no shit. Their constitution is only 25 years old. Well, at this point, this was 2019. Well, whatever. No, it's 30 years old. Yeah.
Yeah, because in 1991 is when they broke off. Oh, they broke off. Yes. Yep. Do you remember that, by the way? Vaguely, but I mean, I'm younger than you. Yeah, not much. Much. Chill out. I remember watching the wall get broken down and having absolutely no idea why this was a big deal. I know. Yeah. I know. I get it now. It's okay. You still live through it, right?
Now, clearly, obviously, Bishanbaev did not serve half of his sentence, so why was he released? Well, he was a well-connected man, specifically to the president of Kazakhstan at the time, who issued him a full presidential pardon. Very lucky. Bishanbaev leveraged his political connections to mitigate legal consequences, giving him a solid sense of impunity and a firm, not unfounded belief that he was above the law. This mindset, I believe, flourished.
for sure impacted his sense of accountability in all aspects of life, including in his marriage. So let's talk about his marriage to Sultanat and get into the crux of what happened.
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Bishan Bai first stumbled upon Saltanat's profile on a social network and was instantly
instantly captivated by both her beauty as well as the celestial insights she offered as a professional astrologer. Oh, do you know which website it was? No. I mean, I don't have it written here. It's probably, it's definitely somewhere in my notes. Yeah, I'm interested in that. Are you? But remember when one of my paralegals, like, gave you your, I don't know what. Oh, no, no, no, not astrology. I'm talking about the social media website that they met on. Oh.
Oh. I'm always interested in like what countries use what. Everyone thinks Facebook is it. It's not it. No, I'm not even on Facebook. Yeah, there's other ones for sure. Actually, our next case, we talk a lot about various social media sites. Weibo? It's not on there, no. Weibo? It is on there. Nice. Yeah.
So compelled by Saltanat's mystical allure, Bishanbhive quickly arranged for a personal consultation through her website. Interestingly, according to Saltanat's brother, Eitbek, Saltanat did not accept male clients as a protective measure. She preferred to create a comfortable and secure environment in her professional world, which makes what happened to her later that much more tragic and ironic. And I wanted to mention that
I understand what she's doing here, like only booking females as clients. So...
recently I looked into getting like a personal trainer just to get my gap into gear for like a small amount of time. And Dave was helping me and he found like male personal trainers. And I was like, I'm not, I don't want a male personal trainer. And he couldn't understand why. I'm like, it's amazing. It wouldn't even be a thought to you. I'm like, I don't, I don't do not want to be alone in the basement for hours a week with a man. It's not to suggest that men are predators by nature or that
personal trainers are predators. It's just a comfort thing. Like I do not want to be alone with a guy in my basement. Did you hear about the bear man thing? Yes, that's on here. I wrote that. So when I first heard that... Tell our listeners in case they don't know what it is. A thing went around, a question went viral. If you were a woman alone in the woods, which is super important, would you rather see a man or a bear, right? Mm-hmm.
And all I knew was ManBear, ManBear, ManBear. I didn't know about the woods thing, which changes it drastically for me. And I was like...
Are you fucking kidding? You'd rather be like, go up against a bear than a man? But once I heard... I wouldn't... I don't know if I would want to see another man in the woods. What the fuck is he doing in the woods? That's the biggest thing. I think they make it like a gender thing, which obviously it is. Yeah. It's so much more context also. You expect to see a bear in the woods. You don't hope. You hope you don't, but at least it makes sense. Yes. You know, it's like...
I don't know. It's creepy. It's out of place. Why are you here? It's out of place. It's like our, the German case we covered, the pink
panty predator. I was, I could not get over that. Who was lurking in the woods wearing female underwear. And you see that guy running at full speed. Yeah. Yeah, no. So, but it was interesting talking to Dave because he genuinely like didn't even occur to him. And I'm like, oh, is that what it is to be like not ever worried for your personal safety? I don't know if it would occur to me either. I know. I know. I don't, I'm guessing it wouldn't. That's not like a slight. And again, I do not, I don't fear men. It's just, you know. Smart. Smart.
I think. Smarter. Right. In any event, Bisham Bhai managed to show up for an astrology appointment with Sultanat by having a woman book a time slot that he showed up for.
And given his manipulative and politician-esque charismatic demeanor, this initial meeting evolved into an intense and whirlwind romance, rapidly culminating in their marriage at Bisham Baib's family-owned restaurant called BAU in 2022. I don't know if it's BAU or BAU. It's all capital letters. I looked and researched this long
longer than I should have. Yeah. But I've only heard it pronounced B-A-U, so I'm going to go there. Bow. You think I should say bow chicka wow wow? It's way more fun. That's what it is.
Yet this union that began under the stars soon began to fester on the dark side of the moon. Sorry. So sorry. Very good, by the way. Thank you. Okay. I was like, if you don't fucking... Bao is the bread that pork buns come on. Oh. But it's B-A-O. So no. No.
No, Bao is fucking, I mean, is beyond good. It's like a steamed bread. I've had it. Oh my God. I didn't know that was what it was called and it's also spelled different. So really kind of irrelevant. It felt relevant. He wasn't, but okay. Bao.
Saltanat found herself ensnared in a harsh reality as her new husband, who had been married twice before, exhibited a cruel and violent streak towards her. He began to impose restrictions on Saltanat's social interactions, forbade her from seeing friends and family, which is classic abusive behavior to isolate her, and was physically abusive on multiple occasions. Very quickly that happened? Very quickly. Yeah. It's like a one-person cult. Yes, it is.
There's so many comparisons to cult leaders and Bisham Baiv. I thought that in my head too. You caught on to it early. Unsurprisingly. So smart. I know. You are. You are. Saltanat was expected to cook every meal, maintain an immaculate appearance, attend all work events with him, and prioritize him above all else, including herself. He's a big baby is what he is. Ugh.
King baby. He's like a fucking violent baby. He's like a horror movie kind of baby. He's Chucky. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But when I hear people that act like that, I'm like, dude, grow the fuck up. It's so much deeper than that. Like, but yeah.
And should Saltanat falter, then she'd be met swiftly with his brutal wrath. According to one of Saltanat's friends who was interviewed after the tragic murder, which of course we're going to go on to hear about, her relationship with Bisham Baib was a tumultuous emotional seesaw of extravagant ups and catastrophic downs.
Bisham Bhai's behavior followed a destructive and all too familiar pattern where he alternated between inflicting physical, emotional, and psychological pain and then offering intermittent affection. The manipulative give and take strategy that we've talked about so many times before, unfortunately,
tends to foster a hope that keeps victims and survivors emotionally tethered to their abusers and prevents them from leaving or fully seeing, understanding, or appreciating the depth of danger that they're in. Yeah, I could totally see myself being sucked into that, by the way. I know. Like, no question. But that's an important thing to say, I feel like, out loud, because people...
And we talked about this during our cult episode recently. Yeah. People tend to think that those who fall into abusive relationships are somehow weaker or like... Deserve it. Deserve it. Naive. Yeah, naive. Less than, like not as intellectually savvy as they might be. Has nothing to do with intelligence. Nothing to do with that. Anybody can fall into this trap. Yeah. And that's what's scary. Yeah.
Pop quiz. All right. When is the most dangerous time for a victim of domestic abuse? Okay. A, in the beginning, when the abusive partner is first establishing their dominance. B, when the victim attempts to leave their abusive partner. Mm-hmm. C, after the victim has left the abusive partner and the abuser feels a threat to their power. Man. In the beginning, if they try to leave, and if they leave after. Mm-hmm. B. Okay.
Yes. When they try to leave. Yes. Yeah. Very good. Studies show that approximately 75% of domestic violence injuries occur when the victim attempts to leave or after they've already left their abuser, which is why it's really when they try to leave, like just when they've left, which is why so many victims never even attempt to leave. Exactly. It must be terrifying. Which may help to answer the question that so many people are left asking after hearing about domestic abuse, which is, why didn't she just leave him? Fucking hate him.
Hate. Scared for her life. Hate. Why don't you just go walk into that shark tank? Yeah. You know what I mean? And try and pitch a board game. By the way, go to influencersinthewild.com to buy my board game or I'm going to lose my house. Thank you. Shameless. Yeah. It's a fun game, by the way. I've played it. It's fun. Yeah.
Aside from it being incredibly dangerous, as previously indicated, this question grossly oversimplifies just how complex the reality of the situation really is for the victim. Leaving an abusive partner is a process fraught with emotional, financial, legal, and perhaps obviously most importantly, safety considerations.
In Saltanat's case, her abusive husband happened to also be an extremely powerful man with deep connections to the country's elite and a firm place in the all-powerful political sphere. By the age of 26, Bishambaev had already ascended to the position of vice minister
Wow. Yeah.
Now, Saltonot did indeed make numerous attempts to break free from her abusive husband. Her father, Amengeldy Nukhanov,
Oh.
Oh, my God. Worried that Bisham Bive might one day discover them. So they were together for that long, obviously, like six, seven years at this point? No, no, no. No, not at all. So that, I said, was in 2023, and they got married in 2022.
Okay. Each time Saltanat attempted to leave, Bishambaev would manipulate her with promises of change and pleas for forgiveness. And Saltanat's enduring love and hope for a transformation led her to repeatedly forgive him in spite of the dangerous dysfunctional environment that she found herself stuck in. Yeah.
And the cycle of abuse and forgiveness in domestic violence cases is tragically very common and follows a recognized pattern that experts in psychology and social work refer to as the cycle of abuse. Now, this cycle typically unfolds in three phases, tension building, acute explosion, and honeymoon phase. So tension building is that walking on eggshells phase for the victim. Okay.
The acute explosion phase is characterized by the actual occurrence of the abusive incident, whether physical violence, emotional abuse, or both. And then the honeymoon phase follows the explosion, and it's a period of calm during which the abuser may apologize profusely. Best behavior. Offer gifts. Exactly. And or make promises for change. And that's what gets the victim right back under thumb. Yeah. Now,
Nazim, one of Bisham Baib's former wives and the mother of his three children, shared with the media that during her marriage to Bisham Baib, she lived in constant apprehension of his unpredictable outbursts. Really? She recounted times when minor imperfections, such as incorrectly sewing a button on one of his shirts or insufficiently cleaning his socks so that they weren't a crisp white, would trigger violent reactions from him.
Additionally, Nazim revealed that Bisham Baib would deliberately deprive her of sleep as a form of control and torture, aiming to make her more submissive and pliable. Again, another parallel to a cult leader, right? Deprive them of food, sleep, anything to just knock down those psychological walls so that you can do with them what you want. Eventually, Nazim managed to divorce Bisham Baib, an act that very likely saved her life.
Now, Kazakhstan, like many post-Soviet states, is largely characterized by traditional gender norms. In many parts of the region, women are often expected to prioritize family, marriage, and motherhood over careers, while men are traditionally seen as breadwinners and heads of households.
While urban areas, especially Astana, which is the nation's capital, might exhibit more modern attitudes towards gender roles, rural and smaller communities tend to still adhere more strictly to traditional expectations. Interesting. Are you fucking with me? No. Really found that interesting?
I understand in urban areas, you are more exposed to different types of people, different types of circumstances, relationships, whatever. There's different models and environment. Yeah. But the fact that it's like, it's not delineated by time. It's delineated by geography. Yeah. That specifically is like, that is interesting. All right. Yeah. Sweet. I was not fucking with you. I know. Sometimes I don't know and I just felt the need to clarify. Very nice. Yep.
As a whole, Kazakh Sam, I'm just going to keep it moving, okay? Please, yeah. But you can punctuate whenever you need. I know it's something that you lack control over. I like.
As a whole, Kazakhstan has absolutely made strides in establishing legal frameworks to protect women's rights. However, enforcement of these laws can be uneven with cultural norms sometimes hindering their full implementation. There's nothing worse than that. Having a law in place that makes everyone's life better and then you don't fucking enforce it. Like, what's the point? Exactly.
Issues like domestic violence remain a significant concern with deep-seated patriarchal norms often, too often, impeding effective response and support for victims. Social stigma around discussing family issues publicly also prevents many women from seeking help. In Saltanat's case, her abusive husband was a deeply connected man with homies in high places. Nice. Who was she expected to turn to for real help?
Between the fact that Bishop Ive was at the top of the food chain in terms of power, he was also a man in a society with a prevailing patriarchal undercurrent. Yeah. As aptly indicated by activist Agerman Kusayan Kaziz, okay, this is what she pointed out, quote, a woman's life in Kazakhstan is not as valuable as a man's life.
End quote. Given the entrenched patriarchy and Bisham Bive's ties to the nation's elite, Sultanat was left with virtually no options for escape. Oh yeah, I could see that. And as a result, tragically, she wound up paying for this dire fact with her life. Because on November 9th, 2023, the unthinkable occurred. For those who wish to skip ahead, please note that now I'm going to detail what happened to beautiful Sultanat on the evening of her death,
when she lost her life to domestic violence. Wish I could skip ahead. I'm sorry, but you cannot. I know. The chronology of that night was examined during the trial and is believed to have gone like this. Prior to arriving at BAU, which remember was the family-owned Italian-European cuisine restaurant registered under the name of Bishambaev's mother, Almira, and where he and Saltanat had married less than a year earlier, Saltanat and Bishambaev attended a concert with Saltanat's close friend, Ada, a
According to Ada, the couple began arguing during the concert and left abruptly. CCTV footage from the street later shows them visibly arguing in the street, with Bishanbhai following behind Sultanat as she tries to walk away from him.
Next, the couple arrived at the BAU restaurant and CCTV footage from the restaurant of that night captured them leaving the restaurant and talking in what looked to be like an outside area at around 1 a.m., both seemingly under the influence of alcohol. There's few things, I was going to say nothing, there's few things worse than seeing a couple have a nasty argument out in public. It's so unsettling. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because in the back of your mind, you're like,
I wonder what it's like at home if they're doing this publicly. Yeah. So this is now 1 a.m., okay? They both look to be under the influence of alcohol. Saltanat was wearing black pants, a white top, and a large black coat.
Her purse was on the ground as she leaned her back against the restaurant building as Bisham Baib stood in front of her, smoking a cigarette with his right hand while constantly repositioning her noticeably crying face with his left hand, forcing her to look at him when he spoke. You can picture it, right? Like one hand's like this, holding a cigarette, and the other's like manipulating her face. Without doubt, Sultanat looked indignant.
exhausted here. But even more than that, she looked defeated. Six hours later, at 7.16 a.m., CCTV depicted the couple again inside the restaurant where they'd been all night. They were walking out of a room known as VIP Suite 1. Only now, strangely, Sultanat wasn't wearing any clothing beneath her black coat.
And Bisham Bive was no longer wearing a shirt beneath his sports coat. But she was walking out? Of the suite, yeah. Okay. Three minutes later at 7.19 a.m., Bisham Bive turned around to face his wife, who instinctively took a step back, which for me was a subtle yet profoundly heartbreaking moment to witness. Because in that split second of a moment, she realized that her life was in imminent danger.
That single step back represented the instinctive flight response activating, that fleeting recognition of the threat advancing toward her, that one terrifying moment of knowing that he was coming for her, and Sultanat knew that he was out for blood. And sure enough, heartbreakingly, a fraction of a second after she took that one self-protective step back,
Bishambeib grabbed Saltonot by her hair and dragged her into a side hallway. Then the footage depicts Bishambeib kicking the shit out of Saltonot as she lie on the cold floor. Her jacket opened to expose her vulnerable naked body, to which Bishambeib delivered vicious kicks over and over as his brutal fists pummeled her face and head.
He then picked up his severely injured wife by her hair and forced her to stand against the stone wall of the restaurant as he continued to punch her square in the face, cracking her nose. I'm going to be a little annoying here. Yeah. Let's call her his victim at this point because that doesn't seem like a wife thing to me. Okay, I'm down with that. Language is important. Yeah.
Saltanat's body slumped forward as Bishambaev walked a few steps away, only to circle back like a predatory wolf closing in on its prey for another round. Bishambaev grabbed Saltanat by her hair once again and dragged her through the restaurant corridor into a restroom where there wasn't any CCTV. After that, he forced her back into VIP Suite 1. And that was the last time Saltanat was seen alive.
So they were in the restaurant for six hours? Yeah. More than that. Before this all happened. And they're there for a while longer yet because...
Because at 3.30 p.m. the next day... Oh, my God. Long after the abuser and victim had first arrived at the restaurant for dinner the evening before following the concert... Yeah. CCTV footage captured Bish and Bibe calmly sitting down for lunch with a female influencer and food blogger named Gulnara Nassibrekova. Meanwhile...
His victim, Saltanat, was left wheezing and dying alone in the VIP suite. Dying. Yes, she was still alive at that point.
Now, there was some controversy surrounding Gulnara's potential involvement in what turned out to be, you know, murder. Yeah. Right? That she was somehow involved in a cover-up. Because after having lunch with Bishanbhai, Gulnara reportedly sent Bishanbhai the text saying, quote, you smell like roses, end quote. For those suspecting her awareness of Bishanbhai's actions, this phrase echoed the English idiom to come out smelling like roses. Ah.
Implying someone appears good and honest after a situation that could have tarnished their reputation. Yeah. However, Gulnara claimed that the text message was intended to be sent to her mother-in-law and that she mistakenly sent it to Bishanbaev as his first name is Kundayk, which is very similar to the Kazakh word kudalayk, which is used for a mother-in-law, it's like to refer to somebody's mother-in-law. What would you do for a Kundayk bar? Yeah, I had that thought. Yeah.
I did. I won't lie. That came to me. Well, thank you for leaving it for me. You go there. I don't. That's the difference. But many people do not buy Gulnara's story. Why? She meant to text her mother-in-law and she accidentally texted Bisham Bive because they felt she was involved in the cover-up. I need to know more. Sure. Yeah. It's not enough. It's not really pertinent. I mean, it is. Obviously, if she was involved in a cover-up, that's not great. Yeah. But it's not enough at this stage to harp on. Okay.
Not for you. You're going to latch onto this, aren't you? You'd be surprised what I'm capable of latching onto. How about this? Do some extra research on Gulnara. Okay. And you let us know. Okay. We'll do that unhinged. So Gulnara faced accusations of hiding evidence as well, including the clothing of Bisham Baev and Saltanat, which was never found. Because remember how they emerged wearing...
no clothing underneath their coats and their clothing was never found. Was Bisham Bive wearing clothes at the lunch? He was, but I guess he was either wearing different clothing or his sports coat with no shirt under it. Okay. Which is what he was wearing when he beat the hell out of Saltimow. Yeah, yeah.
Amid these damning accusations circulating online, though, Gulnara deleted her Instagram account, which was a big deal because she was like a micro-influencer. Not a big deal to you, meme god, but a big deal otherwise. By the time Bisham Bhai arrived back to the VIP suite, following his little luncheon with Gulnara, Sultanat was no longer breathing.
And this posed a bit of an issue for piece of shit Bisham Baive, given he was scheduled to do which of the following activities? P.K. Pop quiz. A. Meet up with Vladimir Putin. B. Appear on a live news segment to announce his candidacy for Senate chairperson. C. Speak at a university in the capital alongside Sultanat about economics, family, and Kazakh tradition. C. No.
A. Yes. Supposed to meet with Vladimir Putin? Yes. Wow. Fucking Putin appears in this case? Yeah. It's nuts. A wild Putin appears. Bisham Baib was expecting a visit from none other than Vladimir Putin. As such... You don't miss that fucking appointment, by the way. No, you fucking do not.
Russia's Federal Security Service, the FSB, which is like the Secret Service, was due to come by the restaurant to sweep it prior to Putin's arrival. And Putin was also visiting the House of Ministries at 6 o'clock p.m., which was located across the street from the restaurant. Mm-hmm.
My understanding is that Putin was going to have dinner at the restaurant with the former minister of national economy. So in a desperate attempt to revive the innocent, beautiful woman who was now no longer breathing, Bisham Bive sent his cousin scrambling to buy smelling salts. Yeah. He also ordered the restaurant staff to avoid calling emergency services and to wipe all CCTV footage, chalking it up to technical failure. So now he's covering his tracks.
But he's bringing other people in on it. I don't believe that restaurant staff had any idea what was going on. His cousin did. Why would he ask them to wipe the CCTV footage? He's the owner of the restaurant. His family's the owner of the restaurant. And by all accounts, he was like a maniacal boss. He was like,
irate, hot-tempered all the time. Yeah. So I feel like he was constantly breathing down their necks and asking them to do crazy shit and you just did not say boo to him. Yeah. That is my understanding. His cousin, though, very well knew what was going on. Yeah.
Meanwhile, Putin never actually made it to the restaurant, and it's unclear whether Bishop Ive called off his rendezvous with the Russian authoritarian dictator or, if more likely, Putin had other pressing matters and couldn't make it. Yeah, I doubt it. Imagine you were on a Zoom with Putin and you were like, sorry, I'm on audio only. I'm driving. Killed this man.
Now, after ordering the restaurant staff to erase all of the CCTV footage from the night in question and sending his cousin out to purchase ammonium carbonate to raise the dead, what happened next? Another pop quiz? Yeah. I do double headers a lot, I feel like. Pop quiz. Yeah. A, Bisham Baive tweeted out a false message wishing his beautiful wife a wonderful trip abroad, setting the wheels for a cover-up story. Mm-hmm.
A. No. C. No.
Nope. Great. Very good. Yeah. And it is B. Yes, it is. Apparently, the psychic advisor that he called indicated that Sultanat was simply sleeping and that eventually, in good time, she would awake and all would be fine. I should have, you know what, when you smirked when you said that, I was like, that's a tell, but I betrayed myself. You did. Yeah. Spoiler, the psychic was wrong. Yeah. Yeah.
And what was the sex worker thing? He just wanted to see one or he was... Yeah, he was arranging to... No, he was arranging to get it on. Oh, yeah. Yeah, why not? Eventually, Bisham Baif called for an ambulance and eight minutes later at 7.55 p.m., three paramedics arrived at the restaurant. And he did this because the salts didn't work. Oh.
Well, maybe you shouldn't have fucking killed her. Maybe. Start there. Yeah. And you won't need the salts. When the paramedics entered VIP suite number one, they observed a naked woman beneath a blanket lying motionless on a couch. Horrifying. She was covered in bruises and blood and her eyes were fixed wide open. She was dead at this point. Oh, yeah. Okay. And despite their efforts to resuscitate Saltanat, she was, of course, pronounced dead at the scene.
And as such, correctly, the not-so-grieving husband, Bishambaev, was arrested and charged with the murder of his wife, involving accusations of torture and extreme violence. Wow. According to forensic expert Takhir Halimnazarov... That was fucking... I don't even know what the spelling is, but it sounded right. It's right. Yeah. ...Sultanat's precise time of death cannot be determined with complete accuracy...
The results of Saltanat's autopsy revealed, without a shadow of doubt, that she died a long and painful death, having sustained 13 blows to her head alone.
She had abrasions and bruises on her face, behind her left ear, and on the chin area. Saltanat had a fractured nasal bone with hemorrhage into the soft tissues of the face, nasal area, and upper jaw. In the brain, pathologists discovered an acute subdural hematoma. Furthermore, there was physical evidence of strangulation as well, including two small oval abrasions, like finger pressings, on the upper left part of her neck.
Hemorrhaging was found in the sclera of the eyes, I think it's called petechial hemorrhaging, under the pulmonary pylora, and most importantly, in the neck area in the thickness of the muscles behind the thyroid gland. All of this together points to the compression of the neck, aka mechanical asphyxiation, aka strangulation. In a statement made to the court at a pre-trial hearing following his arrest, Bishambaev proclaimed the following.
Quote, I do not plead guilty to the charge of torture in the part of the charge of premeditated murder with particular cruelty. I admit that I inflicted beatings that led to the death of Sultanat, but I do not admit that I did it deliberately, that I wanted her dead and acted with particular cruelty.
End quote. Well, what did you think? You know, like... It's absurd. Yeah. To that ridiculous proclamation, Sultanat's grief-stricken mother lashed out in court, exclaiming the following, How can you say that? Unintended? You were beating her to death for several hours. Yeah.
And longer than that, but on the way to the final culmination. Yes. Did the parents know, did her mother know about the physical abuse during the relationship? I know that her father did and I know that her brother did. I didn't read any sources that indicated she and her mother directly spoke about it. But if I had to assume, I would say yes, because it sounds like she was turning to her family. Yeah, yeah.
But Bisham Baev remained steadfast in his acknowledgement of guilt for being responsible for Sultanat's death, but not being responsible for premeditated murder. Now, remember, the key factor for premeditation is not the length of time prior to committing a murder that the decision was made to commit the crime, but rather the existence of a
conscious decision to commit the murder before carrying out the act. It could have been 30 seconds. It could have been 30 minutes. It could have been 30 days. It could have been, could it be inter situational? While it's happening? You're beating her for four hours. At some point you've made a decision along the way. I know it was longer than that, but you have to assume at some point along the way you've made a decision. Right. At some point you, do I stop or do I keep going? Yeah. And that decision to keep going takes the life. Yeah. Premeditation. Yes.
As long as there's a deliberate plan to kill, it's considered premeditated. Okay.
Bishanbaev's trial began on March 27th, 2023. But before it took place, and this is big, in an effort to assert his transparency, Bishanbaev requested to have an open trial, the first of its kind in Kazakhstan history. This landmark trial featuring a well-known, well-connected figure accused of killing his beautiful young wife drew in a massive amount of public interest from around the world.
Open trial meaning over 19 million people tuned in to watch the trial that was live streamed. That's why he's OJ.
Exactly right. Well, I was just going to say, with that level of intense scrutiny and public fascination, it's easy to understand why it has drawn parallels to the trial of the century of former U.S. football star O.J. Simpson, who was similarly charged with the murder of his beautiful young wife in the 1990s after abusing her on at least 62 documented instances. Really? But that horrific case is for another day. And Ron Goldman. Yes. We're definitely going to be doing that case, by the way.
The citizens of Kazakhstan watched the trial with intense and grave concern, driven by more than just a curiosity about courtroom proceedings.
Also like OJ. Exactly right. Right.
Remember when he was supposed to go away for 10 years and only went away for two? Oh, yeah, yeah. The central figure of this movie, which they've seen before, Bisham Baive, had previously been convicted of accepting, I found out it was $2 million worth of
bribes and then only served two years. To the public, this trial felt like a repeat of that history repeating itself. Now, a criminal trial in Kazakhstan operates within a structured legal framework that reflects both the nation's post-Soviet judicial reforms and its current legal statuses. So in Kazakhstan, a jury trial can be initiated by the defense and will consist of 10 citizens as well as the presiding judge with two alternates.
Potential jurors aged 25 to 65 are selected from lists compiled by regional authorities, and professionals and public servants like doctors, teachers, and firefighters are exempt from serving. Really? Yeah, I thought that was so interesting. Yeah. But here's the thing. I'm telling you about juries, and I don't even really know why, because in Kazakhstan, the jury doesn't actually decide guilt or innocence. Yeah.
What do they do? Civil law tradition is followed whereby legal professionals are seen as better equipped to interpret laws and ensure consistent legal rulings.
However, this is why I brought up juries, in a somewhat unusual practice, a jury was indeed used in Bisham Bive's murder trial, reflecting a shift in the Kazakhstan legal system towards greater public participation in judicial processes. Listen, if you're doing an open trial, why not bring the people in on it on every level? Absolutely.
This was just a landmark trial on so many levels. In this trial, a hybrid jury system involving both the jury and the presiding judge was employed as part of recent judicial reforms in Kazakhstan to increase citizen participation and enhance judicial transparency. Jurors and the judge together must answer three specific questions in order to reach a verdict, which requires only a simple majority. One, they must answer whether the crime occurred as charged.
Two, if there's enough evidence of the crime. And three, if the defendant committed the crime. Just a majority, right? Right. But a no to any one of those questions results in a not guilty verdict. A no majority, right? No, a no to any one of those three questions that I just said...
means it's a not guilty verdict. But on a vote. Yes, yes. I'm sorry, yes. At trial, Bishambaev testified that Saltanat humiliated him in front of a friend, presumably Ada at the concert, before indicating later at the restaurant her desire to leave him. This, according to Bishambaev, provoked him. And this is where I also thought of that expression. Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.
Right? He was humiliated, he claims. So he killed her. Oh my God. The level of victim blaming on the defense side was staggering. The defense claimed that both Bishambaev and Saltanat were extremely intoxicated, though interestingly, forensic analysts were unable to find anything
any fingerprints on either of their wine glasses from their table as it would seem that either he or someone he paid off had wiped them clean. Just as someone had done with the CCTV footage, though thankfully some of it was obviously recovered because I saw it and I explained it. Bishambaev recounted grabbing Sultanat by the hair, slapping her face, and when she fell, kicking her multiple times while screaming at her to get up.
Despite realizing that she was severely hurt, he proceeded to drag her into a restroom so that she could clean herself up rather than seeking immediate medical help. And once inside the restroom, Saltanat, according to Bishambaev's defense, proceeded to attempt to take her own life by intentionally smashing her head against the toilet bowl. How stupid. He then called his psychic and his cousin with the smelling salts to save her from herself.
What a guy. What a guy. Really.
The defense's position remained that he caused her death, though he did not intend it. Bishambaev and his legal team repeatedly painted Saltanat as psychologically unstable and prone to violence, jealousy, and alcohol abuse. Did they bring his ex-wives into the trial? I believe that Nazim testified. She for sure spoke to media sources. I didn't watch every second of the trial, though. And I read most of the transcripts, but...
It's possible. Really? Yeah. You're crazy. I mean, I hate it. I hate it. And like once I'm in it, I'm in it. You know, I hate that it happens, but it's fascinating to me. The prosecution presented evidence to the contrary, obviously, contrary to the defense, showing how Bisham Bive severely tortured Saltonot before leaving her to die alone in that VIP suite.
They provided audio and video material, witness testimony, and forensic reports to prove the defendant's guilt and his intent to kill. Right? And that's crucial here. Yeah. The details when presented in court of this beautiful woman's final moments alive were shocking. Not only had restored CCTV footage from the restaurant shown Bishambaev hitting and kicking Sultanat and dragging her by her hair through the restaurant's hallways, but
But there was also video footage taken from Bisham Bive's own cell phone that proved to be equally horrific. Because on that footage, Bisham Bive forced Saltanat to sit naked on a toilet bowl while he berated her and interrogated her about whether or not she cheated on him with a prominent married businessman named Ryambek Batalov. You can hear Saltanat saying quietly, defeated, and
and clearly terrified. I swear on the lives of my future children, I did not sleep with him.
Only Saltonat's family, the attorneys, and the judge were allowed to view this footage because it was on his cell phone. Yeah. But the entire court was actually allowed to listen to the audio from it. And as it played out, people in the room openly wept. Wow. In a closing statement made during one of the last days of the trial, Prosecutor Igor Vranchev declared...
By unanimously recognizing Bishambaev guilty and not giving him a chance to be released at all, you will free our entire Kazakhstan, our entire people from such elitist parasites. Good. Love that. Yeah. And sure enough, on May 13th, the court convicted Bishambaev of torment and the murder with extreme cruelty of Sultanat Nukhanova and sentenced him to 24 years behind bars in a maximum security prison.
Although not the maximum penalty, because murder with extreme cruelty can warrant life imprisonment and torment for up to seven years, it was still seen as a significant victory in Kazakhstan's fight against domestic violence. The entire trial and subsequent conviction of Bishanbaev have been seen as a litmus test for Kazakhstan's legal and political institutions, specifically for the country's commitment to legal reforms and combating corruption within its ranks.
Also, for those who may be wondering, Bishanbaev's cousin was also sentenced to four years in prison for helping Bishanbaev cover it up. Wow. In Kazakhstan, official figures quoted by a government minister last October showed that 869 people had died as a result of domestic violence since the start of 2019. The real figures are likely much higher than that, by the way, because so many cases are underreported or not reported at all.
A member of the Senate told the United Nations in November that around 400 women die as a result of gender-based violence each year and that one in six women in Kazakhstan has experienced violence by a male partner. One in six? Yes. In 2017, the government introduced changes that watered down the law covering domestic violence.
Russia enacted a similar law that year, by the way, decriminalizing domestic violence in cases where it does not cause substantial bodily harm, such as broken bones or a concussion, and does not happen more than once a year. Oh, okay. So like every New Year's Eve, you get to like just have it out. Beat the shit out of your partner. Kazakhstan's criminal code defines three levels of injury. Minor, moderate, and severe injuries.
In the changes, the minor category was decriminalized in 2017, making it punishable only by a fine or a very short jail term. Minor injuries typically refer to those that do not result in long-term health consequences or significant temporary harm to health. So I have a question for you. So minor domestic violence is decriminalized.
It was as of 2017. Okay. So the reason I'm asking is because like,
If there's a domestic dispute and there's violence involved at a home, we saw this with the beaten and battered boyfriend and the cops are called. They don't necessarily always do anything. That's true. So is it like the same situation? I think there's no choice to do anything. Like you can't do anything. Well, the cops can't do anything if the one person doesn't want to press charges on the other person. That's actually not true anymore. Really? Yeah. In the U.S.,
Because victims are terrified. Survivors are terrified. Yeah. So the prosecution, the state can still go after the guy. Good. Though the victim doesn't have to testify, you know, he or she is not forced to participate. Yeah. But if the state wants to go after the perpetrator, the state can.
So days after Saltanat's death, her relatives launched an online petition urging authorities to pass Saltanat's law to bolster protection for those at risk of domestic violence. It quickly got over 150,000 signatures. And as Bishop Baev's trial began, more than 5,000 Kazakhs wrote senators urging for tougher laws on abuse. This trial, which was broadcasted live over the course of seven weeks,
had been widely regarded as an attempt by the authorities to send a message that members of the elite are no longer above the law. Yeah, good. The president said that he wants to build a fairer society, including improved rights for women.
As such, incredibly and correctly, the government indeed passed legislation dubbed Sultanat's Law in her honor that once again criminalizes minor levels, and I'm doing air quotes, of domestic violence with the changes approved on April 15th. Yeah, which is good. And they come into effect in June, by the way. Obviously, because they don't normally, not that I know, I'm not an expert on this, but I can't imagine they stay minor. No.
Exactly. It doesn't take into it. It's a gateway crime. You know what I mean? And also, it's interesting. I think Maya Angelou said this. She was talking about rape. And I saw her on an interview back in the day on Oprah. And somebody said, was talking about brutal rapes. And she said, all rapes are brutal. Yeah. Right? And it reminds me of that. Like all domestic, none of it is minor. Right?
Domestic abuse is always something that should be taken. Was that the same episode where she yelled at the girl for calling her Maya? No, Tank. Okay. But I knew you were going to take it there. I just did.
Okay, well, I did. Okay. You know me. I know. Yeah. Okay. Saltanat's brother, Aitbek, has been a very loud voice for justice on behalf of his sister and all women who deserve protection against abusive partners. Aitbek, as well as citizens all over Kazakhstan, are demanding to be heard in a society that has long silenced women's rights groups and activists. For example, just this past March, an international Women's Day rally was
in Almaty, which is a major city and commercial hub in Kazakhstan. However, they can try to physically take the women out of the fight, but they cannot take the fight out of the women because Kazakh women living abroad all over the world took to the streets in New York, London, Barcelona, and other cities under the banner of hashtag for Sultanat to call for justice and have their otherwise silenced voices on their home turf
echo around the globe. Yeah, good. Since her devastating murder, Saltonot's family has established a foundation in her memory to keep the issue of gender-based violence in the spotlight and help victims of domestic violence. And I, Beck, her brother, has said the following, the most important thing is not to forget what brought us to this point of no return, the deaths of many women over a very long period.
And he's saying the point of no return because he's like, we can't go back now. Forward momentum. Yeah. All positive change from here. Yeah. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. With absolutely zero pretension or judgment or assumption. You sound like me. Yeah. Well, you know, the question I'm going to ask is going to sound a little crazy. Yeah. But do we know or do we have any information on why the brother and father sat out the entire time and didn't do anything? I'm not saying they should have. No.
I'm just asking if there's any, like, if we know why. So I can speculate. First of all, we don't know. Yeah. They completely sat it out. True. That's number one. Very true. Number two, we have to remember that Bishanbaev is a big player in Kazakhstan. Yeah. And I don't think it was as easy as going to the authorities or going to a local politician or what have you to try and get help.
I think it was, I mean, could they, why didn't they like beat him up? I was thinking, why didn't, like, and again, I don't know what I would do. So I'm not saying they should or shouldn't have. I'm just curious.
if you, maybe she didn't tell them how bad it was. Maybe she said, hey, I'm going to handle it. I don't think so. Cause she sent him pictures, her brother pictures. I also think that like we said, right, the most dangerous time is when somebody is about to leave. I think maybe she never really left him. So they may have felt it was too dangerous to approach him with her still under the same roof. I mean, I'm speculating cause I don't,
have an answer to that. If I had to guess, if I had to speculate, I'd say it had a lot more to do with the power than anything else. Yeah. I think it was a perfect storm. Yes. That's what makes this case so tragic. Yeah. Where was she going to go? Where were any of them going to go? Saltanat's funeral took place on November 11th in a mosque located in the city of Pavlodar, which is where she was born.
Prior to her burial, Saltanat's body was prepared in the Muslim washing ritual. According to Saltanat's uncle, the women who had washed Saltanat's body prior to her funeral had emerged petrified from the experience given the amount of wounds inflicted to her at the time of her death. Saltanat Nukunova, who was born on May 15, 1992, is remembered by her incredibly loving family and friends as being ambitious and beautiful.
She loved to play piano and spend time with her grandmother and was an extremely hardworking, independent woman who was able to support herself by working as an astrologer prior to getting married.
She provided personal consultations, natal charts, prognoses, and advice on spiritual development. And she'd done it well because here's an interesting goose bump inducing fact. Okay, let's hear it. After Saltanat read her brother's birth chart prior to her death, she told him that he was destined to help and to make change. Wow.
Pretty incredible. Yeah. Her legacy, whether through her brother's advocacy and action approach or through the echoes of her story throughout all nations around the globe, is driving significant social discourse and forcing the indelible issue of domestic violence into the public conversation and sparking real change. Through the darkness of her story, Sultanat's spirit is not only memorialized but has also mobilized.
turning her tragedy into a triumphant call for action that will go on to save, I hope, countless lives. And how perfect, as in Kazakh, her beautiful name, Sultanat, translates to mean triumph. And in many ways, she has. And that's the case. Yeah. She's having a long-lasting legacy, unfortunately.
She had to die to do it. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, I didn't feel very levity this episode. There's really, you know, it be like that sometimes. Domestic violence, I mean, obviously nobody likes it, right? I've told you this before. I have a friend of mine from the gym who told me a story of his dad taking him downstairs and beating him like...
Every night for about half an hour. And it's like, you poor kid. Oh my gosh. Like that's your dad. Like there was one night years and years and years ago where I was dragging my older son on a blanket towards his room. Right. For bedtime. And he's laughing and flopping all over the place and whatever. And it struck me. I was like, there's someone doing this right now. The total opposite energy, like dragging their kid to the room to beat them. Like what the fuck?
It's too devastating to think about. It really is. And also, I'm not cosigning it. I do understand how they come from it. They don't have like once. Thank God I don't have. I get angry and sad and whatever, but I don't like the difference between rage and anger is like rage is a state. Anger is an emotion. Rage is like you're just in rage right now until it dissipates, until the energy burns off.
The amount of damage you can do during a rage bout is obviously catastrophic. I think rage leads to violence, right? Like rage, I feel like is a physical manifestation of anger. I mean, they're both the same. One is like temporary rage is more, I, this is the way I see rage is like, if you were raised to be an angry person, let's say the way that it was embedded on you is that your parents were angry and your parents beat you. So your model is anger, right?
You're going to look for things in the world to be angry about. So that way, when someone says, what are you so mad about? You go, well, fucking this thing happened over here. But the more you look for things to justify your own internal anger, the more angry you get. And that is just like a nightmare of a life. Yes, it is. Oh, man. I'm sorry. Thanks for doing that. Yeah, yeah. No, it was very good. I think this was a really, really important case. I really do. I do. I agree. This is like a...
after school special case. Like, watch it with your parents type of thing. Yeah, do it though. And like internalize the lessons that come from this and join really the current outcry that is still happening. You know what I mean? Do it. Sultanate? Sultanate, yeah. Sultanate's law?
Correct. Is what it's called? And maybe what are they trying to like pass that, like make that grow globally? Well, there were parts that Eitbeck and Sultanat's parents wanted to be included in the law that was not included. Okay. They still made that minor injury illegal, the minor domestic. So like huge, huge, huge accomplishment. But there was more that they wanted to see happen that didn't happen. So there's work to do yet. Yeah. He apparently, Eitbeck is very big on Instagram. Yeah.
I believe his last name was Nukanova. Ike Beck Nukanova. I don't know how the fuck you did that, this whole case. Nailed those names. How long did you practice them? A little bit.
time. I'm sure you did. I just think it's not respectful not to do it well. So I hope I did it well because sometimes also I think I'm doing it well and I practice the right way, but like my mouth betrays me and I don't realize it until I listen to the episode. Yeah. I'm digging my nails into my leg when that happens. Yeah. Go easy on me if it's not perfect. Yeah. Take it easy, man. Why don't you try this on for size? You try and do a whole full, extra small size, a whole ass true crime episode. Good luck. Let us know.
Let us know how it goes. But if you made it this far, are you okay? Like, are you good? We're really asking. Yeah. If you made it this far, you're a real ass psychopedia listener. Can I just ask you something really quick? Of course. Do you or do you not have a tank tidbit? Not only does he have a tank tidbit, but I got a banger. I wrote this down the other day.
So, like, I'm very aware right now of things outside of me trying to fill the void inside of me. That means...
Okay. Food, acceptance, control, like situations outside of me going the way I want them to. So that way I feel better inside, which by the way is like the whole basis for OCD that I feel like people do know, but like maybe they don't know. Like when somebody is arranging stuff maniacally in like just over and over and over and over again, it's,
It's because there's a storm inside them. And this is the only thing that makes them feel even slightly organized. You're preaching to the OCD choir here. But what happens when you stop using outside things to feed you inside is
is that your inside wants to feed the outside world. So you go into like acts of service and giving and doing. I like that. Instead of like taking, you're a taker or a giver. Okay. And I'm not saying you or anybody, and I'm not saying it's a permanent state, but in any given situation, you're a taker or a giver. But doesn't that mean in that setup that the people who are giving are doing it really for selfish reasons? Yeah, which is totally fine. Okay.
I have no beef with that whatsoever. As long as you do good. Well, let me caveat that because, and we're at the end of the episode, so I'll speak freely here. Okay. It's not Patreon, but might as well be. Be careful. There are people, I believe that it's better to do the right thing for the wrong reason than to do nothing at all. However,
There are people who are even testing that limit of mine on the internet by either staging or cornering or manipulating or exploiting. And I, listen, I believe that just because you do good and film it, that doesn't undo the good. I don't think it undoes the good in all situations, but when you become a kindness content creator, right? Whatever the fuck that means.
You can't just do it every once in a while. Every day. I think about this one person in particular all the time because I'm like, this guy has to go out there and go, hey, do you have 15 cents? And then they give him the 15 cents and he's like, why did you help me? And they're like, you fucking asked me.
And he's like, well, I want to give this back to you. With $1,000. And I want to give you $1,000 and take it. And then they have to react a certain way. Like, I wonder how much of it at this point, because it's the need for content is like the demand is high. Yeah. How much of it is staged? There's one account. I can't remember the name. I wouldn't say it even if I, if I remembered it.
This guy is so obviously going to a homeless person in one of whatever city he's in, giving them, let's call it 20, 50, a hundred dollars and saying, Hey, can you pretend that I helped you in the past at one time? And I'm going to walk up and you're going to recognize me and I'm going to recognize you and have this big moment.
Every single video of his is that. So how fucking often are you running into people that you helped in the past that lived on the street that you would never see again? You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's just very false and fake. But I think that giving, first of all, is its own reward. Kindness is its own reward. But if I'm going to get something out of it, that's not the reason for doing it. That's more of like a bonus than the motivation. Right.
It's an unintended side effect rather than the reason, which I think I just figured out is why I don't like that stuff. Yeah, you really talked through it. Yeah, well, thanks for letting me. We're here. We're here for it. Yeah, but if you're shifting from outside serving you to inside serving out,
You're in a good spot, I think. I like it. I'll take it. Yeah. And let me know if I'm just full of shit. I mean, I'm open to that idea. I'm a lot darker than you, so I don't feel that way. You don't feel what way? I don't think that doing something fake, but it happens to be good, is better than doing nothing at all. Because I think intention is so important. Not fake.
Not fake, real. Well, really doing it, but doing it for not authentic reasons. Well, let's say that like in the program recovery, right? You help other people so that you are able to continue to stay sober and be able to help other people. It's kind of like when, not to generalize, but a mom loses a sense of self and she's home and she doesn't, she's just kids, kids, kids, kids all day, every day. And she's like, I got to take care of me. That's
awesome and great. And you should do that because if you don't take care of yourself, you're not going to be as good of a mom to the kids as
or on the times that you're not doing that. And because you deserve to be good to yourself. Yes. Not just because it makes you a better mother. But if you do something for somebody and it makes you feel good, again, it's not the reason, it's just a bonus. Oh, that I agree with. That's what I said. No, but you started this whole tidbit by saying, and then let's wrap it up because these people don't want to hear this. You started this tidbit by saying, doing something good even for the wrong reasons is,
I'm paraphrasing possibly, is still better than doing nothing at all. Yes. But I'm saying I'm darker than you and I don't know if I agree with that. Okay. But I like that thought once again. I like the way you thinketh. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Don't taketh for me. Are you a giveth-er or a taketh-er? All right. Well, we're going to wrap it up. We'll see you guys at the next episode. Thank you for listening. Thank you so much for listening. Bye. Bye.
Very nice. Very nice. Yeah. Good? Good, not great? Okay, now I feel free. Deep breath.