Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia podcast. I am your co-host, Tank Sinatra, here with my micro co-host. Investigator, cool ass. Slater. Slater. Yeah, cool as hell. We are wearing sunglasses for no other reason than we are just feeling ourselves. Yes.
I mean, it is helping with the light, but that is not why I'm wearing them. I'm only wearing them because you're wearing them. Exactly. And I can't be out-cooled. So here we are. Trendsetter. Yes. Truly. I'm making waves. I'm an influencer. Yes, you are. You know? I bet if I took them off, you'd fucking take them off. Try it. Maybe. No, I don't want to. I like having them on. I feel like very Top Gun Tom Cruise right now. Yes, that's exactly how you look. Good. And me? I don't know how I look. I just feel good, and that's what matters. You know what? What?
These are cool, and these are a toned-down version of your kitty headphones. Oh, yeah, I guess. I need the kitty headphones. Aren't those kitten glasses or something? No. Where are you getting kitten from? Well, I mean the— They're pink and cat eye. Okay, fair. Cat eye. Yes, yes, yes. That is one eye shape I recognize. Yes.
And anime. So we are about to do a case. As always, you have all the info. I have none of the info. I'm going to be just as surprised and shocked as you guys listening right now. It's like we're, you know, one in the same, two peas or 100,000 peas in a pot or something or whatever it is. I don't know. A million, I hope. A million peas in a pod and it's tight. Yeah.
It's tight, but it's comfy in there. A little uncomfortable, yeah. It was, and then it got tighter. You may know this case.
Oh, really? Yeah, you may. It's current. Definitely listeners, viewers, whatever, however you're consuming this right now, many will have heard about this. Okay. Yeah. All right, good. She said listening or viewing because we are on YouTube and we have been for a while, but not very long. So head on over to YouTube, type in psychopedia, do all the things. Subscribe, watch the videos. We got, what did that person say? Do your part and leave a heart. Do your part and leave a heart. I mean. I love it.
I could not get enough of the hearts. Whoever left that comment on YouTube, thank you, because I immediately texted Tank and was like, look at this. This is how we're going to say it. Yes. Yeah.
Do your part. Leave a heart. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen, and just share it. You guys have been sharing it. I don't need to tell you. This is like very much, you know, hi, how's it going? You've reached so-and-so. Leave a message after the beep. It's like, we know. You know what to do. Yeah, we know, dude. We've been doing this for a while. What song did you have on your voicemail? Okay, listen to this.
This can be verified. I believe it. I recorded. First of all, we got a Lego phone, which changed my whole personality. I don't know what a Lego phone is. It's not as confusing as you're thinking it is. Is it a phone made of Legos? Nailed it. Wow. Wow. All she needed was a second. I am an investigator. It was a phone made out of Legos, and it changed the way that I saw the world. I was like, holy shit, a phone can be made out of Legos? Yeah.
So on our answering machine, I locked myself in the closet. Nobody knew I was doing this. And I go, sorry, we're not home right now. We're walking in a spider web. So leave a message and I'll call you back. Better than expected. This was on your house, like your family landline. Oh, yeah. Did they leave it? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
They were like, this is amazing. That is amazing. In my defense, that song at that time was about as big as anything had ever been. Yeah, pretty lit. Oh, also, if you love us and you're just yearning for more, head on over to patreon.com slash psychopediapod where you can get more. And if you haven't been on Patreon yet...
Like if you're brand new to it, you're going to fucking be in heaven. And it's a great time to join because we're kicking off some really exciting things, which I can't really announce yet because it's just not right. Like let's get a little bit closer. Well, I do an episode once a month.
a tankopedia where I present the case and fuck it. We're going to start doing another bonus episode per month by you. So whatever it is, it is what it is. It's happening very soon. And I know we've been saying that for a long time, but now it actually is. I prepped it. It's good to go. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Very good.
So yeah, join us on Patreon. Every 500 Patreon subscribers, we fly or invite, whatever, you don't have to fly. Right, if you can drive, great. Yeah. Save the airfare. Yep, to come sit with us and do an episode with us and just watch as we record live. Just be our friend. Yeah, exactly. That's what it comes down to. We've done it twice so far. It's been amazing every time. Probably.
Probably two of the best experiences so far doing this podcast. Yeah. So we're getting close to that next 500. If you're on the fence and you want to come meet us, just head on over to patreon.com slash psychopediapod and become a little freak.
Or a semen demon. Either one works. Okay. We're just happy to have you. And we are thrilled and honored that you would pay money for something that you're getting for free. Like, you want more of it. Like, that's not lost on us. Thank you. Right? Right. Okay. So, without further, milk is for babies. Milk is for babies. Oh.
It's part of our studio art. This is Arnold Schwarzenegger, Milk is for Babies. He said that in Pumping Iron. He also, in Pumping Iron, there is a man named Tony the Cackling Orange Eating Idiot. Oh, no, I'm sorry. That's so inappropriate and disrespectful. Tony the Cackling Orange Eating Giant. What did you call him? Idiot. Cackling covers that.
Tony the cackling, dim-witted asshole. Exactly. Healing an orange. Watch Pumping Iron if you haven't. It's so good. But don't stop now. Like, wait until after this. But for now, we're going to get into a case. And without further... What more can I say? You know your ass is Willie when you're out doing the mag for like half a billy. Do the case.
I just have to like weather the storm. Good luck. Wait it out. Yeah, no, it's on. It's on. Kick off that intro and draw us into your... My world that I live in and that I love.
Today, we are embarking on a fascinating journey through the fucked up inner workings of a modern day cult known as Love Has Won. Have you heard of it? No. Okay. We start by examining the back cover blurb of the 336 page book that I read for today's case.
It's more a compilation of transcripts from various recordings that the cult has put out. It was long, but it was wild. Yeah. It's authored by one of the cult's members and features, as I said, transcripts of authentic conversations between the cult leader and its members. Okay. So here's what the back of the book says.
Ooh.
Contained within the most holy texts are the carefully curated sermons, conversations, and edicts from the world's biggest love muffin, Mother of All Creation. Her story, Conversations with Mother God, contains transcendent transcripts of missives directed towards humanity, her children, as well as parables preached to the first Contact Ground crew team spanning from 2012 until her ascension in 2021.
This is your chance to read the actual words that came from mom's mouth. Feel her passion flow through you. Understand your role in her universe. Embrace, accept, and allow her love to reach you. Don't think, feel. Open your heart to her message. And buckle up, buttercup. It's time to surrender. Yippee!
That's from the back of the book? That whole thing? That whole thing. Jeez. So, who is this so-called mother of all creation eerily referred to as mom by the cult's former followers? Wait, so that blurb was on the back of the book you read or the back of the book that was written by Mother Earth or whatever the fuck her name is? Mom.
That was taken from the back of the book of transcripts of conversations between mom and her members. And it was written by a member. Okay, got it. So side note, when I was working at this restaurant in Huntington, the Blue Hanoo, which is no longer there, they started to make a lot of changes very fast. And one of the changes that they made, this is when I was working with Ian, which is like some of the best times of my entire life. Yeah, yeah. Ian is Damian's friend and there's a whole thing, I won't even get into it, but...
I told you I almost hit Ian with my car. Yes. Yeah. He was walking in front of Starbucks with his bike. Totally. Yeah. He's out there. He's out there. I was like, dude, it's Ian. So we were told in the pre-shift meeting at the restaurant that nobody was going to be allowed to recommend somebody to work there that was in their family. So like-
If somebody's sister did the coat check or whatever, like that was not going to be allowed anymore. Why? Who the fuck? Okay. Who knows? That's what I'm saying. A lot of changes very fast. Yeah. And some of them made no sense. So I look at Ian and I go, my friend Joellen is looking for a job. Joellen is my sister's name. So then Ian loudly says, my friend mom is looking for a job. Is that okay? That's funny.
Okay. So we're calling her mom now. Yes. Okay. So who is she? Well, according to her followers, mom is a 19 billion year old deity and a reincarnation of Jesus Christ, among many others. Not just Jesus Christ, but I'm going to get into it later. She's been reincarnated hundreds of times. Okay. At least. At least. At least. I don't know why. Yeah, I think. Yeah.
She's capable of healing cancer with the power of love.
Yet these extravagant claims starkly contrast with the reality of the situation. Mom was actually a 39-year-old human named Amy Carlson who managed a McDonald's and struggled with alcoholism. She left behind three children to pursue what she believed was a higher calling after falling into a conspiracy-laden internet rabbit hole, declaring herself God, and amassing a group of devoted followers in her ever-expanding cult.
And while the cult was named Love Has Won, it seems that in the end, love had killed.
Today, we delve into some pretty heavy lingering questions. Was Amy Carlson's death a murder or was it suicide? Did she truly die or did she ascend to a fifth dimension as her followers claim? We'll also explore how Amy Carlson's 13-year transformation from a McDonald's supervisor to a revered cult leader... The American dream. ...who ultimately became a 75-pound emaciated paralyzed woman...
led solely to her tragic demise.
Let's get into it. Amy Carlson was born on November 30th, 1975, and grew up with two younger sisters in a middle-class family in McPherson, Kansas. Who else was born on November 30th? My co-host. Yes, sir. And her sister. Yes, sir. When Amy was just seven years old, her parents divorced, and initially she and her sister stayed with their father, but after enduring challenges with their father's new wife, who Amy and her sister Tara described as being abusive, they
The siblings decided to then live with their mother, Linda Haythorne, instead. So a little bit of bouncing around. Linda had also remarried and by that point relocated to Oklahoma City before eventually moving the entire family to a new home in Dallas, Texas. Throughout most of Amy's childhood, she led a quintessentially Gen X existence. She was a solid student and a caring sister, excelled academically, and participated in the school choir.
However, as she entered her teenage years, Amy began making some less than ideal choices when it came to relationships. A little bit join the club. Unfortunately, though, she experienced multiple abusive partners and began to struggle with alcohol addiction as well. By the time she was 30, Amy had been married three times and had three children, all with different fathers. Around 2006, at the age of 32, while continuing to work her way up the McDonald's corporate ladder, Amy was
Amy began to dream about accomplishing far greater things in a much brighter spotlight. This longing for something greater intensified after a transformative experience with ecstasy further highlighted a now overwhelming sense of emptiness in her existing life. Seeking answers, Amy did what many people would do. She turned to the all-knowing World Wide Web.
And embarked upon a spiritual journey that led her to a forum on a website called lightworkers.org. Oh my God, I know that website. No, you don't. Yes, I do. You do? I do. What's it like? Can you think of it or you just know of it? I know of it. I remember in like 2009 or so, or maybe this is just when I started picking up on it, people started calling themselves lightworkers. Huh. And I was like, what?
And I was like, you're so funny. The ego on these people. Yeah. Just be cool. What do you mean you're a light worker? But what were you doing on that website? Like your own little spiritual? No, no, no. I Googled something. I think about addiction and I was driven to that website. That makes sense. And I was like, oh, that's where the term comes from. Lightworkers.org. Okay. Got it. Yes, yes. So this case may resonate with you a little bit now. I also was a contributor. Yeah.
Just kidding. This page, dedicated to fostering spiritual growth and enlightenment, led Amy into a deep mental and spiritual dive into a world of conspiracy theories, angels, and ascended masters. In the midst of her fervent search for spiritual sustenance online, Amy encountered her main course.
An older man with a striking long fuzzy white beard known as Amaranth White Eagle, a.k.a. Father God. A.k.a. Steve.
Do you know how many names went through my head so fast? And when I landed on the team, I was like, that's the thing. I went through 1,500 names in my head in an eighth of a second. Your timing is perfect.
My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn.com slash results.
LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.
Amy Carlson and Father God instantly clicked, to put it lightly. She saw him as the missing piece to her life's true mission, the counterpart to her divine feminine essence, someone who could unlock the door to the grander life she believed awaited. In an early online exchange with Father God, Amy revealed, quote, "'My current life situation is living in a world of illusion,' to which Father God replied, "'The way I look at it, everybody's God.'"
They discussed ascension, transcending the programmed world, and achieving a higher vibrational consciousness. Quickly, their shared vision began to take shape, manifesting as a heavenly existence on Earth and with the desire to create a universal family. And this massive goal simply could not be accomplished in Amy's present earthly situation with all of her pesky mortal responsibilities.
like paying bills and taking care of three young kids ages 2, 7, and 12. It does say in the Bible that everyone is God. Okay. Which is obviously...
Whether you think it's a guy playing a video game or a transcendent being 5D that created this for fun or whatever, at some point we all came from the same material made by the thing that made us. So like it is, we are kind of like that. I mean, sure. You don't think so? No, I don't think anything. That's the problem. Okay.
That's the big existential conundrum I wake up with every day. I think I'm going to die, and it's going to be like I never even existed. Every day, but you have brought me the closest, more so than anyone else. So keep at it. So anyway, she's realizing that she has big things to accomplish, but she can't do it in her current situation. So following Thanksgiving dinner on November 26, 2006, Amy walked out of her home and on her children and never went back. Oh, man.
Oh, man. That's not very godly. No, it isn't. Thus began Amy Carlson's journey towards something radically different, setting the bizarre stage for her future as the leader of a new-age spiritual apocalyptic doomsday cult. Probably using the tools that she learned as a manager at McDonald's. Listen, that's the truth of it. She is a born leader. Yeah. You know, she did. She rose the ranks there. She was doing really well. And then she kind of rose the ranks, unfortunately,
Fucking with people. First, Amy and Father God founded the Galactic Free Press, a website where they shared and expanded on their beliefs through articles and video blogs. What? I mean, what, what, what?
I mean, your face, you got like, you got a lot going on in your head right now. Her and Father God launched the Galactic Free Press. I smile, you go, what? Well, the problem with- I mean, the sentence was insane. The problem with immersing myself in these cases is I a little bit lose sight of what's like wacky and what's just, you know, part of the case. Like, you know, like saying today is Tuesday. Objectively speaking, Galactic Free Press is insane. Okay, good to know. Okay.
Amy quickly thrived on this new platform and captivated an expanding online audience with her teachings on New Age healing and holistic medicine. What year is this again, that this is happening? Around 2006. That's when she up and left her family. Okay, got it.
Before long, she embraced the profound belief that she was more divine than others, which led her to adopt the significant and psychologically revealing title of Mother of All Creation. Oh, okay. That's called a Spigo, by the way. What's the Spi part?
It's when people... So spiritual ego? Spiritual ego, yeah. Oh, interesting. It's like when spirituality has the reverse effect on you. Okay, I like that. Yeah. Amy Carlson was henceforth referred to only as Mother God, Mom, Mama, Mama G, P.
prime source creator, Sophia Gaia, Great Spirit, and White Buffalo Calf Woman. They all go together. Why not? You know, it seems like they don't, but they're all equally as nuts. Yes. White Buffalo Calf Woman? Yep. Hello to you, Patreon. Yes, exactly. Typically, though, she just went by mom, which is pretty
Pretty ironic, given that she had abandoned her three biological children. She had to, so that she could assume her role as mother of all creation. Right. It was a sacrifice. That's how she would refer to it. Exactly. By the way, do you know what pretty, pretty is from? Mary David? Yes. Yeah. Yay. Okay. Zero reaction, though. Okay. Pretty good. Well, you didn't say it fully. Okay.
Fair. Whatever. It's pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good. Okay. And it doesn't have to be for. That's not what I'm saying, but it needs to end on good. Otherwise, I'm lost. But I made it my own. Yes, and that is why I did not recognize it.
In addition to believing that she was the actual mother of all creation, Amy also saw herself as an intergalactic being from the planet Lumeria. How would she be from a planet if she fucking created the universe? I mean, you're asking a lot.
Okay. Sent to Earth, which she created. Right. Got it. Makes ton of sense. Got it, yeah. Okay.
Furthermore, Amy professed to have been reincarnated 534 times. Oh, that's light work. With her past lives including rather notable figures such as Joan of Arc, Cleopatra, Marilyn Monroe, Queen Elizabeth of England, Amelia Earhart, Pocahontas, Harriet Tubman, and Jesus Christ. She the girl from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? So...
What were the core beliefs of the cult, which was initially named, as I said, the Galactic Federation of Light? Okay. Well, first of all, note that mom's teachings were often fluid and adapted and incorporated new elements over time, which allowed them to appeal to a diverse range of individuals seeking spiritual guidance and community. She kind of bent with the wind. She was making it up as she went along. Yeah, yeah.
Cult studies suggest that when predicted triumphs fail to occur, people tend to shift their realities to match their beliefs rather than the other way around. That's like the thing I learned in the meetings, where normal people raise their behavior to meet their standards and unhealthy people, whatever, lower their standards to meet their behavior. Yep. I won't do that ever. And then you do it and you're like, that's not a big deal. Yeah. Yeah.
But here was the gist of the cult's belief system, which, by the way, she renamed Love Has Won. Unilaterally? Yeah, because she kind of nixed Father God, which comes up shortly. But yeah, she changed it. Okay, so these are the core tenets of her belief system. One, divine leadership. Mother God was considered God incarnate on Earth, tasked with saving humanity and leading spiritual ascension. Two, divinity.
ascension. The group believed in evolving to a higher fifth-dimensional consciousness. Three, karmic energy and healing. Emphasis was on energy, vibrations, karma, and spiritual cleansing to resolve past life debts and traumas. Four, end times and new earth. So they foresaw apocalyptic events leading to a new earth inhabited only by spiritually awakened beings.
classic doomsday cult messaging, by the way. Oh, yeah. The earth is going to end. The only way to save yourself is to join us. That's, I mean, I could use that second one. I still owe a guy from the 1800s five pence. So I relate. Five, reincarnation and past lives. The group held beliefs in reincarnation and the significant of past lives, right? She was reincarnated 534 times. Cool.
Six, energy exchanges and donations. Followers were encouraged to donate money as an essential energy exchange for spiritual or healing beliefs, aka financial fraud. Yeah. And seven, natural and supernatural powers. So those are sort of the seven. I kind of put them together in like a nutshell. Love it.
Love Has Won also harbored a range of more unconventional beliefs, as if those were conventional, including various conspiracy theories and ideas about extraterrestrial beings controlling humanity. And some of these unconventional beliefs included, one, that the Holocaust, 9-11, and the Sandy Hook Massacre were all hoaxes and that a secret syndicate of reptilian people actually run the world. She's taking everything from fucking Alex Jones.
Everything from everywhere. No, Alex Jones. That's classic Alex Jones. So real quick, he was recently sued and lost. I know. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you can talk about it for a second because it's interesting and you started. Reptilian, the water's turning the frogs gay. That's his whole thing. It's like crazy time. But with Sandy Hook, which was especially...
disgusting horrific he like he encouraged his followers to go to the houses demand to see the children's you know death certificate from the parents it's fucking it was insane yes the fact that these people lost their kids and then had to go through that because some schizophrenic delusional man who does cocaine every second of every day preyed upon it didn't happen right fuck you dude awful that guy sucks
Two, that many of the world's problems were due to manipulations by lower vibrational extraterrestrial beings. Conversely, they also believed in benevolent aliens who were assisting humanity from behind the scenes. Oh, that's nice. Three, the clouds served as spaceship covers. So Ennis, you would see the cult, like the members gathering and looking at the clouds in the sky and actually holding real conversations about how those clouds were covering spaceships.
Four, that spiritual warfare was continuously being waged between light and darkness. Five, that energy weapons and government conspiracies employ mind and weather control. And lastly, six, that the cult members could create and manipulate spiritual portals to serve as gateways to higher dimensions of consciousness and tools for cosmic communication. I mean, she sounds like the average Facebook user today. Yeah.
Seriously. When you think about, oh, how do people wind up in a cult? How could you be so delusional, stupid, naive? Look around. It also doesn't happen. It's not one giant leap, typically. No, it's progressive. Exactly. For sure. So these beliefs, while certainly on the fringe of mainstream discourse, were integral to the group's identity and were used to explain a wide array of worldly and cosmic phenomena.
Amy also did not believe in free will and felt that it caused the corruption of modern day Earth. Thus, as a god, she intended to remove free will from humanity in exchange for divine will. Amy's ethos also involved a holy council of galactics who passed on messages to her that were meant to be followed in order to save humanity. And two of her most esteemed galactic council members from whom she claimed to regularly receive messages from were...
You tell me. Oh, pop quiz? Pop quiz. Blorg and Glorg? A, Robin Williams and Tupac Shakur. Oh, shit. B, Albert Einstein and Benjamin Franklin. C, Princess Diana and Gandhi.
Okay, these are all people that are supposed to be dead, right? Yeah. So it's not Robin Williams and Tupac. What were the other two? Well, keep in mind, I just want to say one thing. You asked me when she started on this journey, 2006, but this is like through time now. Oh, okay. Just mentioning that. Okay, Robin Williams and Tupac, my dream team. Albert Einstein and... Benjamin Franklin. Benjamin Franklin or Gandhi and... Princess Diana. Gandhi and Princess Diana. No. I was so confident. I know. I know.
Robin Williams and Tupac? Yes. Wow. Yes. To hear the cult members, I say this because, and we're going to get into this, they live streamed every day of their lives. Oh, really? And I watched so much of it. And you can too. And there's a docuseries that I will reference shortly as well, so you can go watch that. They're literally talking like, yeah, so Robin, you know,
Robin has this to say and Robin's directive is this. And mom was talking to Robin the other day and Tupac and did it like it's absolutely happening. Oh, yeah. It's like those law of attraction people who which I has believed does have some value to become what you want to be before you are and all that. But there's this person she claims to Abraham Hicks.
She channels Abraham Hicks, who is the leader of this particular movement. She says some very nice, interesting, cool, helpful stuff, but it's obvious that she is gone. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Donald Trump, even though he's still alive, was also a top galactic advisor as well. Amy also firmly believed that a Trump-catalyzed great awakening was imminent. Oh, so this is like 2016 or on. It's moving up, right. I was going to say there was no doubt in my mind that these people, I still thought this was 2006, would be like,
all full in on Trump being the one who's going to drain the swamp and Robert, you know, JFK Jr. is still alive. He's going to be Trump's VP. That's what I'm saying. There's a lot of people out there who believe some really wacky stuff. And it's not even an opinion. Your opinion is fine. Whatever your opinion is, is great. But dedicating your life and betting on the fact that JFK Jr. is alive, even though he died in a plane crash. Yeah, I don't know. I have some thoughts on this, but I'm waiting until we get...
into the case a little bit more because it does. It sounds absolutely ludicrous, right? Yeah. And I'm just going to talk about this now, but we can't get into a huge conversation because we still have so much of the case left. Okay. But where my mind constantly is, and I mean this completely respectfully, and I don't know how to impress upon everyone that enough, that I come from a place of genuine curiosity and respect and like non-judgment.
But what is sort of the difference between having these beliefs versus believing that, you know, any religion, take the tenets of any religion, take a talking snake, take it. You know what I mean? Like, why is it okay? Rhetorical question for the moment. Why is it okay for people to believe in that and not okay for people to believe in this? Have fun in hell. Go in there anyway. Okay. I'm just kidding. Table that table, like this conversation.
Also part of her Galactic A-Team were Chris Farley,
Steve Irwin, Carrie Fisher, David Bowie, Rodney Dangerfield, Gene Wilder, Whitney Houston, Prince, Michael Jackson, and John Lennon. What a sick squad. Sick panel. Also, Elvis was mom's godson. Oh, that makes sense. Incredibly, people really bought into this. Literally, followers from around the globe began sending money to Mother God in exchange for the spiritual guidance and healing sessions that she offered.
This influx of funds allowed her to establish a compound in the spiritually focused town of Crestone, Colorado, setting the stage for her rapidly expanding cult. I gotta start a cult. You'd be such a good cult leader. Oh my God. Because you're such a natural influencer. One of her followers, a man named Miguel Lamboy, who was renamed Archangel Michael and believed to be the reincarnation of George Washington...
purchased a property at 4 El Sedo Court in Crestone for $63,000 that wound up becoming the cult headquarters. And he also registered the cult as a 501c3 nonprofit organization serving as its president. They also rented a large cabin in Salida for core members and new recruits. Amy Carlson and her 12 to 20 on-site followers, known as the First Contact Ground Control Team,
embraced digital platforms like YouTube, Facebook, and their own website to spread their beliefs. They live-streamed spiritual teachings, daily energy readings, and messages they claimed were from higher spiritual entities promising to save humanity from doom. Before long, the self-proclaimed maternal deity amassed 20,000 followers on Facebook and nearly 10,000 on YouTube, accumulating over 1.5 million views.
By 2016, they had produced 2,700 YouTube videos and live streams as more people opted to abandon their lives and actually join the cult. She's growing.
Amy and her adherents earned a living by selling crystals, t-shirts, and cups that said, God is a woman, as well as providing healing sessions and remedies to anyone willing to openly bend the knee to Mother God and openly revere her as the deity she purported to be. If you did not acknowledge Mom's holy status, she could not or would not heal you.
Then in mid-2018, the cult took a bit of a darker turn with the sudden arrival of a new member named Jason Castillo, who had almost immediately assumed the role of the latest Father God. So one thing about Amy is she cycled through Father Gods. She got rid of the initial one with a white background.
long fuzzy beard. Yeah, yeah. He was gone a while ago already and she's filtering through them now. She's interviewing for Father God position. Yeah, she's having fun with them and then when she's done, she's moving on to the next.
Jason was a former manager at Blockbuster Video who had a history of legal issues, including charges related to felony theft and drug-related offenses. Jason Costillo's arrival in Love Has Won brought instability and controversy within the group, increasing the scrutiny from the public as well as from law enforcement, which
His co-leadership with KME... Oh, law enforcement was on to them at this point? Yes and no. So, and this is not uncommon with cults. Family members were trying to alert law enforcement to what was going on. But at the end of the day, you have a group of consenting adults.
His co-leadership with Amy Carlson escalated the cult's radical practices and introduced extreme spiritual teachings. Under his influence, Amy enforced strict spiritual and living guidelines, subjecting followers to harsh discipline such as intense physical labor, fasting, and public humiliation.
Castillo's presence also reinforced the cult's isolationist tendencies, cutting members off from their families and outside influences, a very common tactic to deepen control. But they weren't doing that before? Not as much. When Jason came along, that's when she kind of like tightened her grip. Oh, she tightened the grip. She did. He influenced her. So together, right? She's mother God, he's father God. Yeah. So she's really the one in the control seat, but he influenced very much how she led the cult.
Got it. Together, Jason and Amy propagated apocalyptic narratives, intensifying followers' urgency and paranoia. They also ramped up aggressive recruitment and online propaganda, targeting vulnerable individuals with promises of salvation and healing. Additionally, Castillo is alleged to have sexually exploited various members of the cult as well.
So let's talk a little bit about the cult's followers. According to Hannah Olson, whose three-part documentary series I watched on HBO called Love Has Won, The Cult of Mother God. I may have seen that. She had blonde hair. Yeah, at some point. Long. No, in the cover photo. I think in the cover photo, she's maybe sitting like, you know, like, you know, like the typical position of a holy being. Yeah.
Okay, so according to Hannah Olson, who she was the director of that docuseries, many who devoted themselves to Mother God were escaping one specific trauma. And that was, pop quiz. Oh, God. A, the American healthcare system. B, broken homes. C, unemployment. C. No. No.
Yes. According to Olson, the folks who were leaving their entire lives behind to join Love Has Won were specifically traumatized by the healthcare system. One member arrived after struggling with an opioid addiction. One young woman joined after waking up from a coma to discover she owed half a million dollars in medical bills. Oh my God.
Another found the group after losing his father to drug addiction. Another joined after struggling with an opioid addiction as well. So how is their trauma healthcare? I know the person waking up in the coma, I get that. Not getting the help they needed, not being able to afford it. Also COVID was around the corner at this point. So that's another sort of issue that people were up against. People were searching online for ways in which to heal their bodies and minds because they lacked insurance.
could not afford to go to a doctor or a clinic, and struck out in their otherwise more conventional routes to healing. And this is a very relatable issue for many. In 2018, 8.5% of people, or 27.5 million Americans, did not have health insurance at any point during that year.
So when this new online group of attractive people offered alternative spiritual methods to healing, many people in dire straits battling addiction or other illnesses, either unsuccessfully or without support, decided to start to try to sip Amy's Kool-Aid. Yeah, when you're desperate. Metaphorically. You're desperate. Exactly. Exactly.
And I don't fault anyone. Like she preyed upon these people, right? They were vulnerable. They were frightened. They were confused. And they felt that if she really had the ability to offer them the tools they needed to self-heal from ailments like cancer, Lyme disease, COVID-19, mostly just through positive thinking, but also by adhering to our principles, they were going to try it. People, they're so judgmental of people who do things like this, like fall for this or whatever.
Unless you're chronically ill or have an illness that there's no cure for and you have no relief for it, you're just in no position to judge. Completely agree. Yeah. Amy also touted a very specific and bizarre thing as being the ultimate magical cure to pretty much all illnesses. Pop quiz. Pop quiz. What specific thing did Mother God preach could heal pretty much all legitimate illnesses? A, five milliliters of menstrual blood. Oh.
B, 70 micrograms of colloidal silver ingestion. C, 0.5 grams of dehydrated human placenta. Jeez. I'm not concerned with the measurements. It was blood, menstrual blood, which is just blood. It is, man. It is. Yeah, which is still gross. All blood is terrible. Colloidal silver or dried up placenta. Dehydrated, but sure. Yes, dried up. It's fine. Damn.
I'm just going to go with colloidal silver. Correct. Is that because you didn't want to say the other two? No, I was trying to think about, I seem to remember colloidal silver being a thing. There are healing, allegedly healing elements to colloidal silver. Yeah. Yeah. Followers and believers literally bought whatever Amy was selling, including colloidal silver, and they funneled over cash donations online or handed over their entire life savings in person after joining her cult. Again, colloidal.
I wonder if at some point you can overstay your donation, though. What does that mean? Like if you say, I want to join the cult, you can have my life savings, and it's like $25,000, but you're there for like three years. I wonder if she's going to listen. Oh.
I don't think so. You're cured. Because they're putting forth your message. They're bringing in more people who are donating. Like they serve a purpose in other ways. Just having to take care of people is very expensive. It is, but also you're hardly feeding them. True. Right? And they're under your control, which is what you get off on. Yeah. So here's the thing though. In spite of the fact that many of the followers struggled with addiction or were going through financial difficult times,
They were still relatively typical functioning members of society. And I think that this is crucial to recognize because there's a common misconception that those who join cults are a different breed of human, somehow wired to be easily manipulated, or they're inherently weak, or they inherently lack all critical thinking skills. And that's not true. It's
much more complex and nuanced. The process often involves a complex interplay of psychological, social, and environmental influences that can ensnare just about anyone under the right conditions. In this case, the people who joined Love Has Won were by and large vulnerable in the sense that society had wronged them and they were seeking answers and peace. During the pandemic, a
A man named Alex Witten from Mississippi lost his job and began exploring conspiracy theories such as QAnon and tales of cannibalistic pedophiles. Oh my God. This search led him to the Love Has Won Facebook page, which echoed similar themes. Soon, Alex was paying $88 per session for etheric surgery from Mother God, who claimed to cleanse his body of negative energy.
Despite having a $500,000 home, military experience, and a family, Alex rigorously followed Amy's prescribed lifestyle, which involved a strict diet, limited sleep, and wearing specific colors to align with chakra energies. Yeah, I do that. I bet. His wife, Ariane Witten, observed Alex staring directly at the sun to receive light codes from the universe following Amy's instructions. As
As Alex's involvement deepened, Arian sent their children away, fearing indoctrination. Eventually, Alex left the family to physically join the cult, only to be later found alone in the wilderness, naked, dehydrated, with cactus needles in his feet and severely sunburned eyes from excessive sun gazing. Yeah, sunburned eyes. That happened to me in Hawaii. Did it? Oh my God. Wow. Wow.
I, my eyes were burned for sure. It was like our seventh or eighth day there. Yeah. We were doing a long one. It was our 10 year anniversary. I remember. And I had to get like, I was literally looking for those old man glasses that like go all around your eyes. I couldn't find them, but I found something like. Were they the cute little aviators you have on now? No, this, these would not have done anything. Yeah. My eyes hurt so bad. Sorry to hear that. It's okay. Glad you've recovered.
Another cult member, Gabriel Gomez, who was renamed Commander Buddha, which is another classic cult move, by the way, to rename the adherents to strip them of their former identity. He was a smart, sensitive, college-educated guy with friends and an outwardly stable life. Gabriel was believed to be the reincarnation of Buddha, hence his name.
And another love has one member. John, at one point, had become one of Amy's several father gods. He was a former member of the U.S. Marine Corps. I'm just trying to show you that these were people who were formerly functioning members of society who joined the cult and then lost all sense of individual and or critical thinking, reasoning, and intellect. It just went out the door as a result of the manipulation and control tactics employed by Amy Carlson. Yeah.
So what did a day in the life of a cult member look like on the commune? Well, Amy, being a raging alcoholic, would drink herself into oblivion on a daily basis and fly into rages. Everyone on site allegedly existed in an endless loop of smoking pot since no one but Amy was allowed to drink alcohol, having sex, barely eating, and hardly sleeping. According to one former follower, quote, you were high from the moment you woke up to the moment you went to bed.
Quintessential cult behavior. Because when people are hungry, exhausted, and not in their right minds, they are malleable. It's as simple and manipulative as that. Then, perhaps unsurprisingly, in about 2018, some live stream videos from Love Has Won revealed moments of maltreatment and abusive behavior towards the followers. Amy also demonstrated on video abusive behavior towards children and animals.
Because there were actually two children living on the compound. And in the videos, or at least in one video, Amy was seen banishing one of the children to a dark closet after the crying child refused to calm down and comply with her orders. Refused? I know what you meant, but like...
It's not a choice for them. Of course. But this is how Amy's interpreting it, right? Like, you are not following my lead. This chick fucking sucks. And it's a devastating clip because you can hear the child screaming and crying from inside of a closet. Yeah, I'm good. And adding insult to injury is the fact that multiple adults, her followers, did nothing to intervene. In this video clip, which I've seen, there's adult laughing.
lying around. I would love if you stopped talking about it and we could move on because I'm getting very uncomfortable and sad. Thinking of the screaming child in the closet. In another clip, Amy can be seen holding up a cat, calling it a bitch, calling it stupid, and shaking it above her head.
In another clip, now somewhat infamously known as the Chicken Parmesan Saga, Amy is seen berating one of her followers for not bringing her chicken parmesan for dinner. She and Father God, who was Jason Costillo at this time, screamed, cursed, threatened, and berated the man as he stood with his head down in absolute shame. Amy maniacally yelled...
My vision was chicken parmesan. So the fucking Adams turn around on me and get me meatballs. I didn't say meatballs. I love meatballs, but I didn't fucking say that. Chicken parmesan. Adams or people? I think the people around her. Okay.
This, according to a former follower named Ray, as well as others, is what happened on a daily basis as Amy and Jason coerced and controlled everyone around them. Such a terrible environment. It's so toxic. Around this time, which again, we're still in 2018, relatives of people ensnared in Amy's cultic web actually called the FBI and local sheriff and police departments for welfare checks and
And each time they were told that the adults living on the commune maintained that all was fine and that no one wanted to leave.
And we saw this in our coverage of Ant Farm Kids cult in Canada with Rock Terrio that we did with Grace O'Malley. I've been thinking about that the whole time. Yeah. Law enforcement showed up. Now, the difference is, in that case, they were able to remove the children from the cult. In this case, I don't know if the kids were not presented on the commune at this time because they would have and should have been removed. Yeah. But no one was taken into custody because to the law enforcement, they were consenting adults. Yeah. I don't know.
I guess. I mean, consent is... But are you? Exactly. Yeah. As Love Has Won continued to gain more followers, which at its peak had several hundred to a few thousand followers worldwide, with, again, 12 to 20 living at the physical site, allegations of brainwashing, financial manipulation, and abuse surfaced and began to spread. Former members began to speak out as well against the group's practices.
That's a lot less than I thought you were going to say. And that seems way more feasible to me. What do you mean feasible? What? That out of 8 billion people on the planet, 500 to 3,000 are going to be susceptible to this kind of message. Yeah. I thought you were going to say like 40,000. Oh, no. Yeah, exactly. It would never happen because that's too many. Yeah, that's a lot.
Finally, in September 2020, Amy Carlson and her followers from Love Has Won attempted to relocate to Kauai, Hawaii, after Amy suddenly became paralyzed from the waist down due to what is believed to have been complications from cirrhosis of the liver and kidney issues. She told people that she had aggressively growing and spreading cancer, which was not true.
However, the residents of Kauai protested the presence of Love Has Won. And ultimately, the group only lasted about a month in Hawaii before law enforcement escorted them to the airport so they could fly back to their home base in Colorado. Hawaii does not play that shit. No. Yeah. First of all, they said that the cult was going against the COVID-19 regulations. They weren't wearing masks and they just didn't want a cult.
in their world. - Hawaiians, rightfully so, are so protective of their land. - Rightfully so is right. - Because they've been so, you know, when I think about like what was happened over there, there's a song by Israel. - Israel, I know he sang my wedding song. - Which song, "Over the Rainbow"? - Yeah. - Okay. - Well, I walked down the aisle to it. Beautiful.
BJ Penn used to walk out to this song in the UFC. Yes. Oh, my God. BJ Penn. Yes. And it was like ominous because it was such a sweet sounding song, but it was like a war cry against people who were coming in. And I get it. Like you think, oh, there's this beautiful island. I want to put stuff here and make money on it. But they were like, what? We're good. We're good. We got all the money.
All we need here, we're all set. And then, you know, Honolulu, Kauai, there's still tons of untouched lands, but that's because they got real serious about protecting it after they saw what happened when they built all these, you know, commercial properties. Good, I support them. So at this point in the case,
It's early 2021. Amy and the First Contact Ground Control team were living in California, and online followers began noticing that mom was starting to appear extremely frail and unwell in videos that she shared online. On-site followers were often seen assisting her, carrying her to and from chairs and beds as she continued to lose weight and mobility. Pop quiz, what did Amy Carlson do in response to her rapidly declining state of health?
A, take massive amounts of colloidal silver. B, abandon the cult and her teachings to check herself into UC Health University of Colorado Hospital. Okay. C, instruct Father God to take her to the mountaintop where her frequency to Robin Williams would strengthen and save her. C. No.
B? Nope. That was a fucking tricky one because... Could have been any of them. Well, it seemed too easy, the colloidal silver thing. But that was it. Yep. She began to ingest a toxic amount of liquid colloidal silver. What is colloidal silver? Do we know? Well, it's a chemical. Oh, it is? Yeah. Oh, God.
And shockingly, this did not heal her very real medical condition. Instead, it quite literally turned her skin a metallic shade of blue. Oh my God. It's wild. If you Google pictures of what she looked like, she is literally blue. And this is actually a real condition called argyria. Okay. Okay.
It was used to treat infections and wounds. Colloidal silver in small amounts. Before antibiotics became available. Yeah. I mean, people who were like,
earthy, natural people who still believe in colloidal silver. And I think I have the doses lower down in the case. There is a very small dose that can be taken. Yeah, yeah. I think she quadrupled it. Oh, yeah. Or something like that. At least she was gulping out of the bottle. Literally, you see it on the live streams. That's nuts. Amy Carlson's drawn-out death unfolded in real time before her followers and before people who were watching the live streams and now before people who watched the live streams after, like myself. Yeah.
And rather than intervening, they filmed it and they excitedly encouraged Amy to complete her ascension to the galactics, meaning they encouraged her to die.
Many, including Amy's mother, Linda Haythorne, believe that Amy actually asked for real medical care during her final months. However, in a live stream from October 15th, which was six months before her death when she was already ill, two female followers stated that Mother God would never visit a doctor because a doctor would not understand the process of ascension. And one of them explicitly said, and this is a quote, quote,
There's been moments when mom has asked us to take her to a community hospital. Nope. There's no way. We know how a hijacking works. What does that mean? Meaning like the doctors would hijack the ascension process. Yeah. By healing her. Yeah. Oh, got it. Yeah. So the reason I have colloidal silver bouncing around in my head is...
is because I remember this picture of this guy who drank so much. Yes. Oh, my God. He looks like... Papa Smurf. Well, that. And he also... Well, no, he looks like Beast from X-Men. Okay. I don't know who that is. Who was played by Kelsey Grammer. Yeah. Like, totally all blue. It's wild. I know. I know.
As these events were being live-streamed, Amy's mother, Linda, who was watching her daughter die on YouTube... Oh, my God. ...began frantically reaching out to local authorities, including police, ambulance services, fire departments, county sheriffs, and a district attorney in the Mount Shasta area...
pleading for intervention. Unfortunately, all real help had been turned away. And eventually in April of 2021, Amy Carlson at just 45 years old died. Wow. Or ascended, depending on who you ask. Well, it sounds like the girl who melted into the couch.
Just like refusing help. Maybe. We don't know. Maybe, exactly. But the people around her thinking, well, she said she didn't want it. Yeah. You know? And what happened next in this case is nothing short of fucking insane. Oh, boy. Pop quiz. Okay. What happened? A, the followers cannibalized Amy's human form.
B, the followers covered Amy's dead body in Christmas lights and glitter and drove her corpse back to Colorado from California. C, 14 members of the First Contact Ground Control team injected themselves with a lethal amount of concentrated colloidal silver in a mass suicide in order to ascend. C. No. Fuck you. I know, fuck you. Jesus. Cannibalized her body? Nope. I'm doing great. I'm doing great.
Amy's corpse was driven across state lines for several days. Okay, think about what that looked like.
before it was placed in a back room at the Love Has Won headquarters in Colorado. You say she was driven for multiple days? Like, that's weirder than the fact that they draped her in Christmas lights. Because her body was decomposing. So what does that mean? They had her in a car for several days. A rotting corpse. Yeah, that's gross. Yes, it is. That's my point. That's it. But what are the Christmas lights about? Well...
When authorities arrived after being tipped off by Archangel Michael... Oh, that motherfucker. Mm-hmm. Amy's decomposing body was discovered lying on a bed in a makeshift shrine. Her eyes were missing and glitter makeup was painted around her eye sockets. Amy's body was also wrapped in Christmas lights as her disciples awaited her resurrection. So it was like a shrine. Okay. Okay.
What? Yeah. I don't know. I'm thinking Stranger Things with like the lights and the... Oh. But where do they plug them in? Like I have so many questions. Well, no, the Christmas lights were not... Were not lit up? No, they were, but I think they were lit up once they got back to Colorado. Oh.
Okay. The pictures that I saw, the pictures that I saw, she was wrapped in blankets in the car when they were transporting her body. Okay. Then when they got back to Colorado, the Christmas lights, the eyes were missing, the glitter around the eye sockets. That makes more sense.
So... Not really, but... I know. I get it. Was Amy Carlson's death a murder? Was it negligent homicide? Was it suicide? According to Hannah Olson, who's the director of the HBO series about this cult, and this is a quote, she created a belief system where poisons were remedies. She adhered to it. And she collected followers who adhered to it. That belief system had built into it her death.
It's a death by addiction. It has the same culpability for both the person and the people around them that addiction has. It's just that this one came with the whole cosmology. What culpability do people have when someone's addicted to something? You tell me. Is there? Are there? Is there? There's people out there who, and I understand why they think that. The word enabler gets thrown around a lot.
And I just don't know if I believe in enablers because the addict is going to do whatever they want anyway. I mean, if you're there and you're feeding them and you're bait, you're not, they're doing the drugs anyway. You know what I mean? You're not enabling them. They don't, addicts don't need to be enabled. Yeah.
You know? Yeah. You know what I always think about? You know those shows, it's like poverty porn. I hate them. Like My 600-lb Life or like whatever. I do not watch any of that, obviously. A question that always stands out, though, when I like see it on TV, the family members who are taking care of this individual who is quite literally too large to take care of himself or herself. He can't even get out of bed to use a toilet. Yeah.
And the family is bringing a constant stream of unhealthy food in quantities that are mind-blowing. Yeah. Are they enabling? Like, I mean, they are, right? Well, that I would consider enabling. That's different, right? Because at the end of the day, the individual has an addiction to food. I mean, it's probably definitely way more complex than what I'm probably making it out to be. But I just question when I see that. Like, they're loving their family. They're taking care of these people.
people, but they're also then bringing this person the very thing that's killing him. Yeah. The for instance that I have is when I was going to school at University of Maryland and I mean, I had no money. Obviously, I was a college student, but I did work, but barely. And I asked my mother to send me money once for food. And she goes, I'm not sending you beer money. I was like, I don't need beer money. I need money for food. And she goes, I
well, if you weren't drinking so much, you would have money for food, wouldn't you? And I was like, oh, fuck, you're right. You are sending me beer money. Yeah. Wow. But my point is that I continued to drink. It wasn't like I went, wow, that makes sense, mom. I'm going to stop drinking. I just eat less. I was an enabler because there were guys...
who also like blew all their money on alcohol, partying, whatever. And then they had no money for food and I would give them my dining hall card. No, no, that's not enabling. It's not? Because then they would spend the money that their parents gave them on beer or whatever, you know,
And I was like figuring out a way to help them navigate that. It's a gray area in the case of the person, the family member bringing the person who's addicted to food an endless stream of unhealthy food. That's about his textbook enablement. It is, okay. Yeah. I have empathy for everybody in that situation though. Oh, yeah. Everybody, even the enablers or whatever we're calling them. Yeah. Anyway, back to the case. After authorities found Amy's deceased body improperly handled and displayed in a back room of the group's headquarters...
Seven members of the group were arrested and taken into custody. They faced charges including abuse of a corpse and child abuse. As I said, there were two children present in the residence where Carlson's body was found decomposing. However, all charges were eventually dropped. Yeah.
Legal proceedings in such a case would have been complicated by the interpretations of religious freedom, the intentions behind the actions taken, and the evidentiary standards required to prove criminal behavior beyond a reasonable doubt. Without concrete evidence of criminal intent or harm to others, prosecutors likely found it challenging to justify continuing with the prosecution, particularly if the actions can be framed as part of religious or spiritual practices.
The Sewatch County coroner, Tom Perrin, conducted Amy's autopsy and ultimately determined that her cause of death was alcohol, anorexia, and silver ingestion. Amy's liver tissue contained 470 micrograms of silver in it.
But when her body was finally released and returned to her family, her mother and children held a memorial service for her, which, you know, is sad. So they found 470 micrograms. I think that the normal level, I could be wrong, but I believe just going back into my research, I think it's 70. So she had 470 micrograms.
Of colloidal silver? Yeah. Well, I don't think there's any normal amount of colloidal silver in the river. I think a reasonable amount if you're using it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is 70. Yeah. Interestingly, before she died in September 2020, Amy appeared via satellite on the Dr. Phil show. Oh, shit. This motherfucker pops up all the time in our cases. Oh, he's always there when somebody's suffering. And Dr. Phil asked her how she could have left her three small children behind in exchange for cult living.
What I'm trying to understand is how did you leave? How? How did you leave your children behind for Father God? You sound more like M'Guy from South Park. That's what Dr. Phil sounds like. No, I think I did it better. Oh, you do? I just did it. How? That, what you just did, sounds more like Dr. Phil than me? It did the first time. Do it again. Let's hear it.
How? Can you just give me a W once? Yes, I can give you a W once. Okay. There's an asterisk next to it. Amy calmly explained that she felt she was called to a higher purpose and that if she did not complete the mission presented to her by her angels, no one else would have and humanity would suffer. While Dr. Phil did not complete a diagnostic process on Amy, following the interview, he unofficially diagnosed her with megalomania.
He's not even a doctor. It's like getting a fucking diagnosis from Dr. Pepper. Dr. Pepper. Megalomania is a type of narcissism that involves an exaggerated sense of self-worth based on fantasies of power, attractiveness, and other physical or psychological attributes. Yeah.
All megalomaniacs are narcissists, but not all narcissists are megalomaniacs. Well, one is an advanced stage of the other, so yeah. Megalomania is often characterized by delusions of grandeur and a need for power and control. According to Rick Allen Ross, CEO of the nonprofit Cult Education Institute in Trenton, New Jersey, he said,
I want to intern here, just saying. Or maybe work there. Yeah, you have plenty of time. Definitely above an internship. Commute to Trenton, New Jersey and, you know, work for free. But according to Rick Allen Ross, Amy Carlson was indeed deeply narcissistic and displayed little empathy, sympathy, or moral conscience. She was also genuinely delusional, having maintained firm beliefs in things that are clearly contradicted by reality.
And her followers appear to be delusional as well, or at the very least brainwashed, which made me think about a certain psychological disorder we discussed in the Kim Kardashian killer clone case. And it has a name, a French name. Can you remember? Wait, say it one more time. It's a shared psychotic disorder. Yes. Yes. Yes.
So good. So good. And it's a rare mental disorder causing symptoms of a delusional belief to be transmitted from one person to another or more than another to multiple people in this case.
Since Amy Carlson's death, the Love Has Won cult has disbanded and the various cult members have split into different groups, all of which seem to be carrying on the mission of the Mother God. Yeah. Having researched the Love Has Won cult for this case, I find myself left with more questions than answers at the end of it. Yeah. Once again, once again, please hear me. Coming from a place of respect and genuine curiosity and a true desire to better understand this topic and to grow...
I find myself wondering what differentiates a cult from recognized religious practices. Is it the level of extremism? Why do we turn our noses up understandably at cult beliefs about a celebrity galactic council, but then feel that a talking snake really existed?
According to Colorado College professor Gail Murphy Geis, chair of the sociology department, all religions, including Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, and Islam, started as fringe movements and became recognized as bona fide only when they amassed enough followers. So, you know, it's wild, right? Like Love Has Won, the Galactic Council, Robin Williams, like colloidal silver being the answer to everything, everything we talked about today.
But what makes it more ludicrous than any other religion? You know? I'm asking you. I am. I'm now asking you. If you have an answer, I don't know. It could be rhetorical. I struggle with this topic in general, so... I mean...
I don't know if I have an answer for you. First of all, you'd have to delineate. You'd have to ask somebody who believes that a snake spoke that question because I'm not that far. I know you're not, but I know people who are. I'm not an Old Testament person. First of all, I've always believed in something. I never was so arrogant to think that we are the most intelligent form of life in the universe. I don't know how anybody can think that.
And if you do, how do you explain it? People, you know, the Big Bang, what happened before the Big Bang? First of all, the Big Bang is a giant leap of faith also. So you're putting faith in something. It's just not the same thing as somebody else. So if, you know, you worship science, that's cool. But don't make me feel bad for believing that a loving creator created the universe. It's just as plausible or unbelievable. You know what I mean? Right. So I, on October 3rd, 2002,
got down on my knees and begged God to let me escape this addiction.
And it happened. And I haven't had, I haven't picked up since. I asked for the obsession to be removed because the obsession is what drives it. I know for a fact that if the obsession ever came back, I would be high. I've had thoughts because I'm a human being and my brain thinks, you know, but the obsession was removed that day from me. I almost felt it be removed. Hard to explain. Yeah. And that was the beginning of the relationship. But I was as hard of a sell as anybody. I mean, you're, you claim to be close now.
And it's been, in my opinion, such a short amount of time. It took me 20 years. Oh, yeah. No, I've been on this journey for a long time. Yeah. I mean, 20 years of seeking and finding and reading and believing, acting as if I believe, even if I don't, to see what happens. And it always turned out well. I just believe that something is out there that, first of all, definitely created this universe we live in. Whether it's somebody playing a video game,
Or, like I said, a loving creator who just made us to let us experience a little bit of creativity as well. Whatever it is. But the snake thing is like, I don't...
I mean, even the Pope said that that was a category. But you believe you're non-denominational. Yeah. Right? But Christian? Yeah. Did I say that correctly? Yeah. So you have some religion that anchors you. Yeah. And that's believable for you. You believe on October 3rd, 2002, some greater. I don't believe that. I know that. You know that on that date, something greater occurred. Yeah.
Why is that something that you can wrap your head around? Not you, like, specifically, but, like, one can wrap their head around. But then we're, like, laughing that, you know, Amy felt that she was getting, you know, higher signals from beings who are no longer here. I mean, listen, I'm sure she believed what she believed. Mm-hmm.
I believe what I believe. So I guess that's just it. We shouldn't turn our noses up at anyone. But I guess the issue here is preying on vulnerable people, taking their money, not giving them food, not letting them sleep. Like, it's that shit. It's not her beliefs. Like, you can believe whatever you want. If this woman was believing that in her house, with her kids, taking care of her family, just having a really...
out there belief system, we wouldn't be talking about it. Right, right. I just kind of answered my own question. That's the distinction. That is the major distinction. And I think that what happens is cults now, or not now, probably always, but not before the whole Jesus thing happened, which is, by the way, historians universally agree that a man named Jesus lived. The question is about the miracles and the resurrection and all that. So,
I didn't even believe Jesus was a person. But I also was like, I was arrogant. I wasn't arrogant enough to think that I was the highest form of intelligence in the universe as a human, but I was like, I was pretty close. I was there, you know? I was just never atheist. I was agnostic, if anything. But yeah, I mean, the problem is they take from other already existing belief systems and make their own, but it's not ever their own. It's a...
an aggregation of existing beliefs that they think will help them and they can use to trick other people into joining them, supporting them, paying for their lifestyle and all that. Yeah. That's, you know, that's where it gets a little fucked up. Yeah.
So, yeah, that's the case. Yeah. It reminded me of Ant Hill Kids. I liked it. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. I had a good time. Good. I'm glad. Yeah, me too. Interesting shit. Tragic on many levels. Maybe I'll watch that docuseries. You should. I do recommend it. The only thing I'm going to put out there is just food for thought if you watch it. The series or the director has received some pushback from people who say like,
How are you putting out a docuseries where we're watching this woman die? Yeah, yeah. And then we do. Yeah. We actually do. It's horrifying. But it's kind of like a true, you know, fly on the wall mentality, like not interfering and just taking it all in. Well, she put the videos out for herself. Correct. She did. Right, right. So, no, I'm just putting it on your radar. Like that's some of the pushback that she got in putting this docuseries out. But in any event, I found it...
a real sort of fascinating journey into the human psyche, which you know is what I'm all about. Yeah. With this true crime thing, so. I truly, if you're still here listening right now at this point, just know that I could not give a shit less about Pushback. I know. I don't care. Oh, I'm not suggesting you shouldn't watch it because of Pushback. I'm just like,
Food for thought. Like, this is just an interesting thing to go into that docuseries thinking, like, what you're seeing. You know, like, let it sink in. Like, you're watching this woman's demise. Yeah. And we can think what we think about her. I mean, I wish I would have went into it with a clean slate, but now I can't because of a dirty slater. I was just going to say that. I was just going to say that.
Yeah. Well, sorry, not sorry. No, don't be sorry. Everything I say is also a joke. I know. So I don't care about pushback and I'm almost never serious. I know how you work. I know how you work. Yes. Well, if you made it this far, join my cult. Yeah. You know? Join us over on patreon.com slash psychopediapod to join the cult. It's going to be a million dollars a month to join. Yeah.
But you get like tanks tidbits constantly. Oh yeah, all the way. And I will send you a Subway sandwich once in a while. A Subway sandwich? That could last a couple of days. Not for me. Well, you're not in a cult and starving. Oh.
Got it. You know? Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Great job, as always. Thank you for doing the work. Thank you for listening. Thank me for the Steve joke because that felt like a classic. That was a banger. Yeah. That was so good. And thank you guys for laughing at it because a joke is not funny if nobody laughs. Thank you for making it funny enough to laugh at. Okay. Very good. I appreciate it. Well, it feels like the end of the episode. It is. So we'll say goodbye, but we will see you next week. Yes. Thank you for listening. Bye. Bye.