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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I'm your co-host, Hank Sinatra, here with my pro host. Investigators later. She is cozy as oofk right now. As oofk. Oofk. What is that? That's the reversed edited fuck that they use in rap songs. Oh, I like it. I don't give a oofk. Cute. Yeah, it was a very fun way. Like they used to, like when DMX was cursing in a song on their radio, he used to just be like, I don't give a oofk and bark.
And it was like, nobody said anything. Nobody was ever like, is he barking? Because he barked so much. It actually makes sense with his like vibe, I feel like. That real throaty, raspy, deep, you know? Actually, not to be annoying, but it was a high-pitched bark, like a, not a yip, but like my dog Ollie, where it was like a fucking rings in your ears. Yeah. Yeah. You just did a really good job barking, by the way. That was just, I mean, right off the cuff. If I really put a lot of effort into it, you'd
You'd be like, are you a dog? Just wait for Cash to not be here when you do that or you're going down. He doesn't like when people bark? He doesn't like other dogs. Oh, that's right. He might think... This is one little bugaboo. He might think he's been being duped this entire time. I have an announcement to make. Okay. Yeah, don't get scared. I do. I don't know why I have that knee-jerk response every time you say things like that. Every time I say it, you look like you're getting sent to the principal's office. That's how I feel. My heart's actually racing a little bit. I'm not joking.
Just come out with it. I can't wait. Now I want to kind of drag it out. It's a big announcement. I can't breathe. That affects your life. I can't breathe. Hurry up. I have a dermatologist appointment tomorrow. You poor thing. No relief for those lips, huh?
It comes and goes. But you know what? I got to get it looked at. You so kindly got me a cocoa butter stick. Yes. And the only problem with that is that it smells so good and tastes so good that my dog ate it. Oh, come on. All I found was the cap. Ooh. Yeah. Which means she's full of fucking cocoa butter right now. Oh, damn. She's small too. I hope she didn't actually swallow that like tube.
Um, no, probably not. She's, I mean, she's a, an animal, like she's an animal obviously, but she's like a maniac when it comes to eating things. She ate two albuterol pods. Oh my God. That we put in the nebulizer for our kids. Yeah. Yeah. It's like,
Straight up concentrated. Was she bouncing off the walls? When I picked her up, her heart was blasting. Yeah. We took her to the emergency. Good for you. And they just watched her and whatever. They, you know, emergency vets, they're fucking, they gouge you hard. I got to tell you, I can recommend a phenomenal movie
vet ER. Well, they were just like, she's good now. She's been there for six hours. Do you want her to stay for 12 or 24? It's either going to be 800 or 40,000. Which one do you want? How much do you love this dog? And when it comes to dogs...
take every penny in my bank account. Yeah. You know, but I do have a really, really excellent vet, emergency vet place that I can recommend. They do not squeeze you dry at all. All right, good. Yeah. One time they even examined Cashy in the waiting room because he broke a nail, but he was gushing blood. And I know that nails, like dogs are very vascular there. Yeah, the quick. Yeah, exactly. And I'm thinking to myself, they're going to want him overnight. Like this guy's gushing everywhere. They came out and just wrapped him in the lobby and they were like, go, he's fine.
Wow. Yeah. Great. Not one penny. Wow. That's very interesting. Well, you know, we do, speaking of cash, we have a tank and Slater and cash and psychopedia piece of merch right now. And the merch store is live. Yes. Fully operational, ready to order. Get yourself some cozy, comfy coverings with the psychopedia skull and maybe even one that says semen demon. And that will be a conversation piece at the holidays for sure. And if you are okay with being psychopedic,
If you're okay with us sharing those images, go ahead and send them to us. Yeah, tag us in them. Or just, if you tag us, it'll send us a DM. But yeah, we're excited to see you fucking weirdos wearing that merch out in the wild. Oh, yeah. I want to see you answering some questions. Same. What is a semen demon? Well, this podcast, you know what? I don't have time. Just psychopedia. Just look it up. Yeah. My lips are chapped. They really hurt. And...
If you love this podcast, do us a favor and subscribe to it on Apple, Spotify, share it with your friends, tell everyone at the holidays about it, get some merch. So people go, what is that? And you go, well, it's funny desk. I'd like to everyone to sit down right now and gather around while I tell you about this podcast, psychopedia. We're,
of everything people do and don't do. Whether you listen and you tell a million people or you just listen and keep it for yourself. Absolutely. It's very hard to describe to someone who doesn't have a podcast or something public facing how much it means when people are into it. Oh. Like it really, like it is. How do you talk about love? And,
Let me count the ways. How do you put words to that type of feeling? How do you describe heaven? Right. For real, not being facetious, not exaggerating. I mean, you laughed. I'm not laughing 100% serious. Yeah. It is the warmest, most wonderful feeling in the world to have this psychopedia family. Especially for you because you put so much work into it. But it's like done out of love. It's like parenting.
You know what I mean? Loads of work, but like totally worth it. Yeah. Hard, exhausting. I was going to say, it's probably a little bit better than parenting. Yeah, no, I'm not complaining at all. I love everything.
every second of this journey. And if you're not getting enough of what you want over here on the public podcast, we do have a Patreon, which is another way you can support us and we can get investigators later to quit her job. That's patreon.com slash psychopedia pod. And over there we do unhinged episodes of psychopedia, which is exactly what it sounds like. Slater sweats. I thrive. I sweat too, but it's a different type of sweat. Yeah.
I'm not nervous. I am thriving. I'm barely getting through it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, welcome to my world. I know. I get it. Ours of saliva. Oh, boy. All right. Well, without further ado, why don't you tell me about this week's case so that I can stop talking?
Few experiences in life can compare to the anguish and heartache that sees a parent's heart when something befalls their child. It is something that transcends culture, nationality, and time itself, a universal anguish that has haunted mothers, fathers, and caretakers throughout history.
When adversity rears its head and events spiral beyond our control, the excruciating helplessness that envelops a parent's soul is a torment like no other. In these darkest hours, the relentless grip of fear coupled with a sense of helplessness engage in an agonizing tug of war, during which the very essence of what it means to be a parent is laid bare.
When a parent stares into the abyss of their child's pain or untimely death, the world stops and time itself seems to hold its breath.
Tragically, this excruciating reality unfolded in its most unbearable form on December 25th, 2010, for parents Pierre and Jacqueline Bamu, who were Congolese immigrants living in Paris. On what should have been a day of festive celebration, Christmas Day itself, Pierre and Jacqueline were not tearing through wrapping paper or unpacking gift bags and boxes. Instead, they found themselves opening a different kind of box. Yeah.
the coffin of their 15-year-old son, Christy. Oh, my God. This case is... I can tell already. My spidey tingles are going off. It's gonna suck. Yeah. I'm gonna be sad. Yeah. It's very difficult to...
It took a little bit for me to put this case together because of how difficult it is. Quick thought. I read something once. It was like an anthropology book about origins of, you know, different cultures and ideals and whatever. And I've read this thing. I don't remember exactly what it was, but it said that some theorize or hypothesize or speculate or think that...
The idea of spiritual beings or religion or whatever comes from that pain of a parent losing their child. I'm not sure I'm following. Because it's like the most painful, like you've seen animals. I'm sure you've like seen an animal. Like I've seen videos of dogs who lose their children or separated from their children and then they bring them the puppies and they, I mean, they're ecstatic. Yeah. Or,
Or a downtrodden deer who is in captivity, who's lost its baby and the baby comes back and it's like live, like alive. Yeah. Yeah. So whether it was the cause of spirituality or consciousness itself, it's like the first thing where humans were really like, why? Plugging into something. Why would this happen? How could this happen? Right. And thinking about it and trying to ask those questions and exploring the answers. Yeah.
I can see that actually, because I'm, as you know, not a spiritual or religious person in spite of wanting to be, I'm just not. But my son had an MRI when he was five months old and while it was happening and until we got the results, I was praying to someone or something. I'm not even sure what. Yeah. There are no atheists in foxholes. Right. Well, that I've heard. But yes, I think that's a good point.
So earlier that fateful morning, which was Christmas 2010, Christy's lifeless body was discovered in the bathroom of his sister's apartment in London. His body was completely destroyed. Christy's skin was mutilated and covered in deep cuts and extensive bruising. Raw, gaping holes were left in his mouth where his teeth should have been. His ears were mutilated and his flesh revealed the torment that he endured in his final moments in this mortal realm.
That's horrible. I know, my voice is already cracking. In the three and a half days leading up to the brutal end of his young life, which were spent in his sister's apartment-turned-torture chamber, Christy Bamu endured hell on earth. He did not fall victim to the monstrous actions of an unidentified assailant or a serial killer on the loose.
horrifyingly, Christie suffered unspeakable torment and an inhumane death at the hands of his own family. No. I will warn you that the details of this tragedy were so devastating that those who wound up serving on the jury of the trial that eventually took place were granted a permanent exemption from further jury service for the remainder of their lives.
This case is regarded as one of the most heinous instances of child abuse ever documented in British history. Oh my God, that's, I mean, it's getting worse. So please, please hear my trigger warning loud and clear. We are discussing abuse against a child, as well as topics relating to faith, superstition, and witchcraft. It will get heavy, though I will of course present it as carefully and respectfully as possible, but please...
But please, for the love of God or whatever you believe in, if anything at all, listen with caution. On December 16th, 2010, right before Christmas, Pierre and Jacqueline Bamu happily allowed their 15-year-old son, Christy, to leave their home in Paris in order to visit his older sister, Magalie, and her boyfriend, Eric, in London.
In fact, all six of the Bamu siblings, ranging from ages 11 to 29, were meeting in London to celebrate the holiday together. As parents, this was an extremely heartwarming thought for Pierre and Jacqueline, like a scene straight out of a Hallmark movie, right? You can picture it. A big, beautiful family of six siblings sitting around the Christmas tree together, sipping hot cocoa, exchanging gifts, probably recounting funny or embarrassing moments from back home.
Unfortunately, this did not unfold as a formulaic feel-good Hallmark movie highlighting the magic of Christmas. Rather, the atrocities that unfolded over the course of a three-and-a-half-day period did not just resemble a mere horror movie, but instead mirrored the darkest depths of a psychological thriller turned into a nightmarish slasher film.
Yeah, if you made a horror movie about this, it would be banned. Like, it's too much. Because it's beyond the bounds of imagination. Yeah. Within this chilling narrative, an innocent 15-year-old child was tragically and unjustly cast into the searing glare of the spotlight. Now, to tell Christie's tragic story, it's essential to first explore the backgrounds of his killers. Magalie, his 29-year-old sister, and her 28-year-old partner, Eric Bukubi,
These backstories will offer context, though of course not justification, for the merciless conduct inflicted upon Christy. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.
My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. On February 21st, 1983, Magali Bamu, the eldest among the Bamu siblings, was born in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
Her parents, Pierre and Jacqueline, raised her until the age of five. Then in 1988, they relocated to France to start a carpentry business specializing in furniture design and manufacturing. And they left Magalie to spend the next eight years of her life under the care of an aunt and uncle in France. Pierre and Jacqueline continued to move around a lot and each time made the decision to leave Magalie behind in Europe so that she could complete her studies.
In 1996, after Pierre and Jacqueline decided to return back to Congo, they arranged for Magalie, who was 13 years old by that point, to live in Dagenham, East London, with her maternal cousin, Bibi, and Bibi's husband, Ferdinand. And this home, sadly, was far from a stable and loving environment. Rather than enjoying her formative years in the pursuit of friends, crushes, and education, Magalie was thrust into the role of a live-in servant.
That's terrible. So she was 13, you said? Yes.
this continued on until she aged out of having to endure that. Yeah, yeah, but she didn't get to go to school, which is like, that's a huge problem. And that was the whole reason why her parents didn't take her with them when they moved around. She could have a stable, consistent life. Was
Was she unable to communicate with them or she was too scared to say anything or we don't know? I just know typically how victimization in general works. Yeah, that's why I said that. Yeah, it just can't say for sure that this is what happened with her. But generally speaking, especially when it comes to children, when they're victimized, it's very difficult, if not impossible, for them to even articulate what is going on, let alone to have the courage to do it. Yeah, they might think it's normal.
So later on, Magalie wound up taking courses in literacy, math, and retail at a sixth-form college in Stratford, East London, while working as a domestic cleaner to pay for her bus fare. When she was around 21 years old, she found work as a receptionist and later as a dental nurse before meeting her boyfriend, Eric Bukubi, in 2004 through a mutual friend. Initially, Eric was described as kind and very protective of Magalie. However, he was
His protective demeanor gradually morphed into a more abusive and controlling one. Eric began to restrict Magalie from wearing makeup, going out, or maintaining friendships. Classic, classic abusive domestic intimate partner relationship.
He would subject her to derogatory comments, labeling her as stupid and weak, a narrative that Magalie eventually internalized. So at this point in the case, we feel for Magalie. And this is how it unfolds with a lot of the perpetrators that we highlight on Psychopedia. In their initial days, in their backstories, who they were at that point in their life is
is something that we feel sorry for. Yeah, listen, for the most part, except for, I guess, Lucy Letby. Well, she had a nice upbringing. That's what I'm saying. Every case pretty much we've covered that I can think of, I'm sure there are others, but not many. The majority of them, the perpetrator, had a fucking rough upbringing. And that's, again, not to excuse it, but it does kind of make you understand, like, oh, this person never had a shot to be normal. I think it also makes you realize how...
important formative years are and how detrimental any type of abuse, whether it's verbal, physical, certainly sexual abuse, is long run. Like, obviously, in the moment, it's horrific for that child, but the downstream effects...
can be catastrophic. Not always. Changes in the neural pathways. Yes. And it's not a guarantee. I know plenty of survivors who are thriving in life and have their own families now and they're wonderful parents themselves. Yeah. But it is definitely a pattern. Yeah. And we're not trying to humanize serial killers, but we're also not trying to dehumanize them. Well, again, I think it's important to separate the child from the killer that they later became.
Fuck this guy.
Unfortunately, they reconciled after Eric asked Magalie to marry him, promising a happy future. Yeah, get married to fix a broken relationship, and then once the marriage is broken, you have kids to fix that. Everyone knows that. It's also a common tactic. Oh, yeah. And the psychology of the victim, hope, we've talked about this before, is a very strong emotion. And at this point, she was likely very reliant upon him in many ways, and it's so complex. In fact, at the time of Christy's tragic death, Magalie...
Magalie and Eric were in the midst of redecorating a new apartment in Manor House, North London. So they had their sights set on a future together. I want to go to London so bad. Do you? Do you know what? I might be going next month. If I can get my passport in time, Dave's going for business and my parents, saints among us, offered to watch the boys. Oh, there's people listening right now like...
Oi, we gotta find investigators later. Or something like that. Probably not like that. Yeah, something like that. Jeez. God. Guys, he says it out of love. We love the accent. I just am not great at it. I don't know what that was. I think that was like Australian. It was not British. No, it wasn't.
Eric was also born in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in 1983. His mother died during childbirth, and he spent some of his early childhood with his father, who worked as a gold trader. Then, at around the age of seven in 1990, Eric and his uncle made the difficult decision to together flee Congo due to the turmoil of war and eventually settled in London. During this period, Eric's uncle, who had become the central father figure in Eric's life,
introduced him to a belief system known as Kendoke. Derived from the Lingala language spoken in parts of the Congo, Kendoke translates to mean witchcraft. This introduction had a profound and lasting impact not just on Eric's upbringing, but throughout the rest of his life and influenced how he perceived and interacted with the world.
Kendoke is a belief system associated with traditional African spiritual practices and may involve beliefs in supernatural powers, rituals, and the ability to influence events or people through magical means. In the Democratic Republic of the Congo and among Congolese immigrants living in Europe,
Kendoke is often used as a means of explaining the unequal distribution of good and bad fortune. Coincidence does not exist. Really? The hand of either God or Satan is present in every event that unfolds in life. Is it a derivative of Christianity? Christian evangelicals do propagate Kendoke in parts of Europe, which we're going to go on to discuss.
To many, the evil power of witchcraft emanates from evil spirits that possess the witch and endow him or her with the power to harm and inflict bad fortune of any kind on any level, from sickness to civil wars and economic disasters.
They put a lot of stock into this. Oh, yeah. It's important to note that the perception and interpretation of Kendoke can vary widely among different individuals and communities in Congo and other African regions. Some may view it as a legitimate aspect of their culture or religious beliefs, while others may consider it superstition or harmful. So obviously, I mean, that kind of goes without saying, everybody's entitled to believe in it however they choose. Yeah, like voodoo dolls.
Yeah. Like they're kind of seen as like a joke in the Western world or whatever, but I'm sure, I know, obviously there has to be people who really believe in those work. Absolutely. If anybody has my voodoo doll, by the way, could you put some chapstick on its lips? I'll try anything.
There's no denying that more and more churches initiated by African individuals who claim a divine mission to combat evil have opened up in the recent past. Between 2005 and 2010, over 650 Pentecostal churches were established in the UK, bringing the total to 3,900.
While many of these African churches are benign in terms of their beliefs and practices, there are instances where some engage in violent exorcisms and promote lucrative cures, and I have air quotes going, for supposed possession. They are typically overseen by pastors who wield the authority to label children as witches and subsequently attempt to cure them through exorcism rituals for a fee.
Fuck this. These services are frequently available online as well. Really? With payment options, of course. Remote exorcism? Yes. Oh, wow. They'll literally tell you, like, go through these motions, touch that table, do this with your body after you've put your credit card information through. Yeah, yeah. And they will cure you through the interweb.
Yeah, I'm not like, telehealth is good, I believe, right? Even though it's not telehealth. This is a little different, but I think I understand where you're going. But I remember getting a number for like a hypnotherapist
Hypnotherapist? Like a hypnotist, yeah. Online? I don't know about that, brother. I got it from my therapist. I know, but hypnosis through a computer screen? Well, let me finish the story. All right, I'm sorry. Jesus Christ. I spoke to her on the phone and she's like, well, I work remotely now because of COVID. I was like, I'm not fucking, what are you going to hypnotize me over the phone? I don't think so. Oh,
Oh, this wasn't even over a computer screen. This was over a phone? Yeah, or maybe Zoom. I don't know. I didn't want to hear it. It didn't matter because I was not into... If you're going to hypnotize me, okay? Have you ever been hypnotized? Um, I don't think so. What if this is one big hypnotic spell? You will start a true crime podcast. God, did you guys hypnotize me? It's possible. You and Dave?
Yeah, that last New Year's, that conversation we had about starting a podcast was really me. Yeah, but if you're going to be hypnotizing me, I want to be able to smell you. What? Oh, you mean you don't want it to be over the... Okay, I missed it. I'm sorry. It was a good joke. I just missed it. Okay. So it wasn't a great joke. I mean, we'll let the listeners... It was good, not great.
So these purported exorcisms masquerading as treatment are anything but gentle or safe. Instead, they frequently entail brutal physical abuse, torturous methods, and the infliction of profound psychological pain and emotional distress upon the victims. Forensic experts have issued warnings about the role of some Christian fundamentalist preachers in fostering the growing belief of kendoki within Britain.
Dr. Richard Hoskins, who's a police advisor and university lecturer with extensive expertise in cases involving accused child witches, including the Christy Bamu case, warned that Christian extremists often target immigrant families. They offer expensive deliverance services that include exorcisms, fastings, and sacrifices, all aimed at ridding these families of malevolent spirits believed to be inflicting them. Dr.
Dr. Hoskins stressed that these Christian extremists and evangelists exploit vulnerable families, further propagating belief in witchcraft through their costly deliverance services. So he's suggesting, quite obviously, that it's a scheme. Yeah. And they're preying upon these vulnerable families who've immigrated. And they're getting a little taste of that Western Christianity. Right.
This significant issue gained major public attention through the tragic case of an eight-year-old girl named Victoria Climier in the year 2000. Victoria, who had come to Britain from the Ivory Coast, lost her life in the most deplorable way possible at the hands of her aunt and her boyfriend, who accused her of being a witch.
A year after that, in 2001, the torso of a Nigerian boy, somewhere between four to eight years old, who was dubbed Adam by the police, was found in the River Thames after he was ritually sacrificed. Police believe he may have been trafficked and then killed by or for someone with a terminal illness who believed his murder would save them. So the postmortem showed that Adam had been poisoned.
his throat had been slit to drain the blood from his body, and his head and limbs had been expertly removed. To date, nobody has been charged with Adam's murder, and his true identity remains unknown, which I find devastating.
In 2005, three people were convicted of beating, cutting, and rubbing chili peppers in the eyes of an eight-year-old Angolan girl to, quote, beat the devil out of her. Fucking sick. In 2017, in Nigeria, a father gave his 11-year-old twin daughters a drink laced with poison, killing them.
When asked why he did it, the father told police that the children had been declared witches by a clergyman and that he poisoned them in hopes of rescuing them from evil. Sometimes I think about whether or not I'm a good parent. And then I hear stories like this, or a good person in general. Mm-hmm.
I'm only going to say this in case somebody else has done it and they're beating the shit out of themselves for it. When my older son was younger, apple cider vinegar was like all the rage. It still is. And there was people saying like, it's a nice mild way to like, like,
Like soap in the mouth, right? Soap in the mouth type of thing. Okay. Right? I see where this is going. So he did something that like deserved it. It wasn't just like, oh, you didn't make your bed? Like choke on this apple cider vinegar. It was like he, I don't remember what it was, but I'm not a psycho. So it was something like extreme that maybe put his life in danger or something. Did that. I mean, I fucking, he like inhaled a little bit while he was drinking it. It burned. Oh my God. I wanted to fucking die.
So immediately I Googled, can apple cider vinegar kill a child? Yeah. Yeah. And there was a story about this nanny who actually did kill one of the kids that she was taking care of by like putting chili powder in water and making the kid drink that. Oh my God.
God. Way over and over and over again. Oh my God. I can't hear it. I can't hear it. Horrible. I mean, that one weighed on me for a while. I mean, I don't mean to make you feel bad because we make mistakes as humans and you learn and you grow and I happen to know you're a phenomenal father. Yeah. But I can understand why that fucked you up. Yeah. And we never did it again, obviously. I once said something to my little one that haunts me to this day.
day. I'm worried it's going to come out in therapy years later for this poor baby. If I could turn back time and revisit one incident in my life, I swear to God, it would be this to do over. Yeah. He was being annoying at probably five-year-olds at the time. All five-year-olds are annoying, but it was very egregious. It had to have been. I was probably absolutely exhausted. Two little kids at that point just started working and being a mom and whatever, whatever.
And my little one was not listening to me. I can picture everything. He was wild, wild, wild intentionally as kids will do to push my buttons. And I looked at him and I go, you are the worst. Wow. And the way he took it was not great. It destroyed a piece of him. My,
I'm getting like worked up even just thinking about it. I instantly like reversed it. I'm like, you're not the worst. Your behavior right now is the worst. You as a human, you are not the worst. But by that point, he's five. It's the damage was done. Every time I see him from now on until I die, I'm going to just say you're the best out of nowhere. Please do that. Yeah, please. I do it. I'm still making up for it. I will never forgive myself for that ever. Parenting is very difficult. Parenting is the hardest thing I've ever done. My first time too. Yeah. Right.
Really hard. I'm so sorry, little boy. Okay, I'm sorry. Anyway, I got a pop quiz to shake things up here. Oh, wow. Great timing. Who typically accuses a child of being a witch in countries and cultures that typically believe in witchcraft? A, clergymen. Mm-hmm. B, physicians. C, parents. Mm. This is a good pop quiz. Thank you. Clergymen, physicians, or parents? Mm.
clergymen. No. Okay. Physicians? No. Parents? See, we're good parents. I'm going to get into this, but I do want to point this out here.
We have to understand. We don't agree with it and we cannot allow it. Yeah. But we have to understand that people who believe in this are making choices that they believe are right choices. Everyone's doing their best with whatever tools that they have at that moment. No, no, it's not. It's the choice that they're making. Yeah. Yeah.
They could make a better choice, but that's the choice they're making. Because that's the best thing. No, no, we can't. We cannot get into this again.
I mean, you're so close to getting it. I know. I'm going to find God and come around to this point all in the same moment. Yeah. And it's going to make you very happy. Maybe your lack of faith is keeping you from seeing the truth. It's way too existential for me right now. I am just kidding. Yeah, you're in a blanket. You need to be cooling out. I'm in the blanket. Oh my God. Everything you could ever want and be, you already have and are.
Deep. Dustin. I heart Huckabees once again. Getting back to the case, yeah?
Accusations of children being witches typically stem from their parents or caregivers, often arising when a child exhibits differences or idiosyncrasies within the household. These differences can encompass a wide range of behaviors or traits, such as experiencing nightmares, bedwetting, nail biting, demonstrating exceptional or limited intelligence, or expressing distinct preferences. So it's a lose-lose either way on the intelligence day. It
It will either end of the spectrum if you're very heightened or very, you know, not. Then yes. I wonder if I was in a witch society, if I would think my kids were witches at some point. For what? Being geniuses? No, just like behavior in general. Like if I was in a society that was like,
witches are like a thing. Right. You know what I mean? Well, sure. If your son wet the bed, I mean, if you're a true believer, that may give you license to take on that belief. It's also very sad to think that if your son does wet the bed and you are in a witch society that you have to hide it for fear of, you know, yes. And you don't believe in the whole witch thing. Yeah. Just keep that in mind.
That's a piece of information for you to store. We'll come around to that. Essentially, nearly any deviation from the norm may be interpreted as indicative of the child harboring an evil spirit. That's how they interpret it. Disturbingly, these accusations are often directed at children who are considered outsiders within the family dynamic. So stepchildren, refugees, trafficked children, domestic workers, or even former child soldiers.
Children with developmental, health, or learning challenges ranging from conditions like autism, epilepsy, and dyslexia to seemingly minor behaviors like stealing a toy or taking an extra snack may find themselves subjected to accusations. Totally normal kid behavior. Yes. By the way. Yes, of course. All of this is. This distressing situation takes a heartbreaking and dark turn when instead of seeking professional assistance for children with underlying health or developmental conditions,
pastors opt to label them as possessed based on what the parents are telling them. Oh, so the parents suggest it and then the clergymen confirm it. Yes. That's basically the process. I was half right on that part. Well, you're, but it's not also the only scenario because sometimes, and this is when it gets real dangerous.
Parents will make the diagnosis, for lack of a better word, on their own without taking it into the parameters of a church. And then they'll take treatment into their own hands. So now all of this treatment, right, all of these cures are happening in complete isolation. It's not great when it's happening at the church, but it's even worse when it's happening in private.
Once suspected of being a witch, the child is then usually made to confess. Denial of accusations is not acceptable and only ensures further efforts are made. Well, that's confirmation in some people's eyes of being a witch, denying it, which is fucking crazy. When I did barely did any research on the Salem witch trials. Mm-hmm.
which has never come to fruition, but I got my eyes on some other cases for the Patreon. They said it was a society that valued remorse over honesty.
Like they would rather you say, I'm so sorry for being a witch than say I'm not a witch. Because saying you're not a witch was like, of course a witch would fucking say that. But they would still kill them. Exactly. It was a lose-lose. So they didn't value remorse either. If you admitted to it, sometimes they would let you live. Okay. Yeah. But you have to be labeled as a witch for the rest of your life in your town. Which strips you of your humanity and your rights. Yeah.
When a child is pointed out as possessing kendoki, steps are then taken to rid the child of the evil spirit possessing them. It must be understood, which I alluded to a little while back, that to believers, even the body of a small child that has been identified as a witch is no longer perceived as a human being, but rather as a shell within which an evil spirit inhabits. If this dwelling is made sufficiently uncomfortable, then the spirit will leave.
Fasting during continuous prayer, dehydration, salvation submissions, and sleep deprivation are all horrors inflicted upon the children. Oh, they do that to the kids? Yes, and are designed to facilitate confession and force the evil spirit out of their little body. I thought the parents were fasting to try and heal it or, you know, whatever. No, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. This is all being inflicted upon the quote-unquote witch, which is the child.
because when they're doing these horrible forms of abuse at the child, towards the child, they perceive it as attacking the spirit, not the person. Yeah. I guess I think of fasting as voluntary and starvation as involuntary. Regarding Eric Bakubi, what I was providing was a decent background, obviously not entirely every aspect of Kentucky. Amazing background. I am just an excellent, I'm eating it up. You,
You needed to have that context for the rest of the case. Okay, so now we're getting back to the case itself. Sure. Eric Bakubi. His upbringing instilled in him a belief in the principles of Kendoke, shaping his perspective on life accordingly. Everything he felt, experienced, and saw was through the lens of Kendoke. I can't overstate that enough.
But I can give you a pop quiz. Okay. Pop quiz. Sure. What happened in Eric's childhood that compounded his belief and fear of Kendoke? A. He experienced visions in which he saw non-existent rats. B. He saw the devil in his own reflection. C. He smelled burned flesh each time he went out in the sun. So he saw rats, saw the devil, or smelled burned flesh. Um, he...
Saw the devil in the mirror? No. Okay, fine. Don't take it personally. I'm really struggling on these PQs recently. He saw rats? Yes. Yes, he did. During Eric's formative years, he frequently encountered hallucinations, including visions of non-existent rats and other abnormal phenomena.
Consequently, his family, apprehensive of the repercussions of disclosing these visions to anyone, isolated him. This approach not only denied Eric the essential mental health care that he required and deserved as a child, but also instilled in him a deep-seated fear of Kendoke and an inclination toward extreme measures when confronting the perceived presence of malevolent spirits and witchcraft. They were in Congo at this time? No, Britain. Britain. UK, okay.
So at this point in the case, Eric, who is now 28 years old, okay, we're like current times in the case, he's an adult working as a soccer coach and he's become increasingly preoccupied with sorcery and the belief that he was fighting an ongoing battle against witchcraft.
The threat of black magic haunted him, and he began experiencing visions again, this time of his brother entering his room to strangle him at night. That sounds torturous, by the way. I mean, being trapped in your own mind in and of itself is hell. Yeah. It's not a pass for what he ends up doing, but it's...
It's its own nightmare. Yeah. In a bid to escape these menacing spirits, Eric and his girlfriend Magalie frequently relocated within London, residing in various neighborhoods including Hackney, Dagenham, Becantree, and Kentish Town. Unfortunately, Eric's schizophrenia-like delusions and untreated psychosis continued unabated as he avoided seeking professional help. He never
He never was offered it during his childhood. He may not have even known it was an option. Instead, he resorted to what he did know, which was prayer, conducted extensive online research about Kandoki, and as claimed by Magali, sought help from Nigerian pastors in Holloway Road, London, even though local churches disassociated themselves from him. Wait, why? They denied that he ever went to them for guidance.
Oh, okay. But Magalie said that he did. Yeah, but they were like, no, I don't know that guy. Yeah, which I understand why they would say that. I am more inclined based on my research to believe Magalie's version. Yeah. Detective Superintendent Terry Sharp of the Metropolitan Police emphasized that there was no verified evidence of his connections to churches in this context. But again, when you dig deep and you understand what church is observing Kentucky, it's believable. It's believable that there were pastors who were feeding into this.
But regardless of whether or not Eric was seeking spiritual guidance from a pastor at that point or not, Eric's conduct, thought to have been driven by his beliefs, was on an alarming trajectory. Moreover, he began taking matters into his own hands
away from the church and into his own home, which I said moments ago, is actually even more dangerous. Oh yeah, doing anything in a vacuum as a total amateur. It's like searching, me Googling chapped lips on WebMD and thinking I have cancer. Yeah. It's like, dude, go talk to somebody who knows what they're talking about. Well, my mind went to, you said also when you knew when you were struggling with addiction that it was like,
a real addiction versus maybe like, oh, I'm drinking too much. It was when you were doing it alone behind closed doors. Oh, yeah. Nothing else mattered except you and that addiction. But before that happens, you wind up drinking alone in a crowd.
You go out to drink with somebody and someone gets around. And then, I mean, if people have this problem, they will laugh at this. Being with like, let's say four people who drink normally and somebody gets the round is like a nightmare because it's like, I want another round now.
Five minutes. Not 30 minutes when you guys are ready. Like I, and I, I need another round now. So I'm going to go get four more. Did you end up buying drinks a lot for people for this reason? No, I had no money. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Drinking alone is like, I would disappear when we'd all get in. We'd disappear and I'd go get a drink. You'd be like, oh, I couldn't find you guys. It makes sense. It does. Yeah.
So Eric began taking matters into his own hands, okay? And it began roughly two and a half years before Christie's tragic murder when a 19-year-old woman named Naomi Ilonga took up residence with Eric Imagali in London for three months. So she was like a renter, a tenant. Eric, convinced that he was the chosen one possessing the unique ability to perceive others' character and spirit, accused Naomi of kendoki due to her nail-biting habit. Really? An adult? Yes.
which it's more common that children are targeted, but it's not unheard of for an adult to be accused. Oh, okay. I thought the nail biting was a kid thing. It's an anybody who was affected by Kendoke thing.
During the final three days of Naomi's stay with Eric and Magalie, Eric subjected her to a forced fast and sleep deprivation while he and Magalie engaged in constant prayer. He instructed Magalie to discard all possessions Naomi had touched, including pots, pans, and clothing, and then forcibly cut off all of Naomi's hair as a means to release the witchcraft.
Fortunately, Naomi managed to escape with her life by contacting her mother for help just in the nick of time. Fast forward two years to December 2010, and Eric's next victim, 15-year-old Christy Bamu, would not be so lucky.
At the time, Christy had been living in Paris with his parents, as mentioned, Pierre and Jacqueline. And as mentioned, Christy decided to spend Christmas that year with his 29-year-old big sister Magalie in London, along with their four other siblings, including 20-year-old sister Kelly, 22-year-old brother Eve, who was on the autism spectrum, 13-year-old brother and 11-year-old sister, who I cannot name for legal reasons, given the fact that they were minors at the time. Tragically, what
what was supposed to have been a warm and loving family holiday turned into one of the worst cases of child abuse in British history.
According to 20-year-old Kelly, the initial days of their family visit were uneventful. However, the situation underwent a sudden and horrifying transformation when Eric and Magalie abruptly leveled accusations of Kandoki possession against all five siblings. Really? Despite their fervent pleas for mercy, relentless torment ensued.
The siblings endured a systematic deprivation of food and water and were subjected to relentless beatings while being forced into constant prayer. The initial main target of Eric's twisted intentions was Eve, their 22-year-old sibling who was on the autism spectrum.
Eric callously expressed his intent to subject Eve to a particularly grueling regimen entailing a three-day deprivation of food, water, and sleep in an effort to make him quote-unquote normal. Yeah, because that works. And that's obviously not my word. Eric's barbarity escalated further when he directed the younger siblings to jump out of a window to test their ability to fly. Oh my God.
Faced with relentless pressure, Kelly and her 11-year-old sister ultimately resorted to a desperate confession of being witches in a bid to evade further torment and beatings, a tactic that appeared to offer them some respite. Christy, however, initially refused to confess to having any involvement in sorcery or witchcraft, a stance that only intensified the brutality inflicted upon him during a deliverance ceremony.
And then a pivotal moment transpired, which redirected all of Eric's attention and violence towards Christy and only Christy. Following a particularly severe assault, Christy accidentally wet himself, an incident that had catastrophic consequences and placed him squarely in the crosshairs of Eric's escalating brutality.
Interpreting this incident as a clear indication of possession, Eric clutched Christy's urine-soaked underwear, which Christy had attempted to hide in the kitchen, which kills me, and resolved that an exorcism was imperative to expel the evil spirit that he believed dwelled within Christy.
And what transpired next inflicted upon this 15-year-old child with the help of Magalie, his own sister... Everyone else is there while this is happening? Yes. Is extremely painful to hear and even harder to comprehend.
So I just want to emphasize that this is the specific segment of the episode where we're going to delve into the harrowing ordeal that Christy endured for three consecutive days leading up to Christmas Day. And I know that I previously issued a trigger warning, but just know that this next part is rough. So please listen carefully or maybe even skip ahead if it gets to be too much. That's okay. We will be here when you get back. Yeah, and I'm going to step out. I'll be here when you get back. Great.
First, the siblings were forced to physically restrain Christy while Magalie brutally shattered ceramic bathroom tiles onto his back, causing deep lacerations that instantly swelled and bruised his skin.
Hmm.
Eric and Magalie used a sharp knife and a chisel to inflict slashing, cutting, and slicing wounds across Christy's entire body and used pliers to callously twist and tear off his ears. Oh my God. And the siblings are there? Yes, and we'll talk about that. That is fucking horrific. Not only are they there, but they're being forced to participate in the torture.
Additionally, Eric repeatedly shoved a weightlifting bar down Christy's throat and forced him to drink his own urine while in a kneeling position. All the while, the terrified siblings, including the 13-year-old boy and 22-year-old brother, Eve,
We're forced to participate in these horrifying acts of torture. So even those who confess to being witches, we're not given a pass. I mean, how is that fucking helpful, what he's doing? Eric? Yeah. How is it even in his brain rationalized that this is what's going to work?
I know he's attacking the demon and all that, but like, it seems like something else is afoot here. I'm inclined to agree. Yeah. And in like a minute or two, maybe we're going to go on to discuss that because I had some really big questions when I was researching this case and questions that I don't intend to
to offend anyone when I raise them, but I'm going to raise them because I had them and maybe other people have them too. Yeah. But there's so much happening here. Yeah. At one point, Kelly was accused of only pretending to be beating her brother. As punishment, Eric forced a light bulb into her mouth and then squeezed her throat while holding a knife against her chest.
Eric forced all the siblings to undertake the grim task of cleaning Christy's blood from around the apartment, all the while subjecting them to his incessant screams and harsh verbal abuse. In an attempt to muffle the screams, cries, and pleas of Christy, Eric simultaneously blasted loud music at a maddening volume. The noise from the music eventually led a neighbor to lodge a noise complaint with the police, but it went ignored.
Oh, man. And by the fourth day of sickening and unrelenting abuse, Christy begged for his sister Magalie to just let him die. Okay. Then, just after midnight on Christmas Day, Christy managed to make a phone call to his parents, Pierre and Jacqueline, who were still in Paris. And during this call, he uttered the following chilling words.
Dad, come and get me or otherwise Eric will kill me. Christy was able to call his father? Christy was able to call his father, yes, because the phone was out because Eric was using it. You're going to hear why in one second. Initially though...
Christie's parents found it difficult to believe the severity of the situation. And they trusted Eric, a man who they considered to be like a son-in-law, a man who referred to Jacqueline and Pierre as mom and dad. But then Eric called Pierre to indicate that Christie was under the influence of evil spirits and that if they did not come quickly, he would have to kill him.
Wow.
Pierre tried desperately to find a way, obviously, of getting to London, but the situation presented significant challenges. He was in Paris. Yes. Not only was it Christmas Day, but Paris was also gripped by snowstorms, resulting in grounded planes, the suspension of Eurostar services, and the closure of car rental agencies. Yeah. He was...
Yeah. Did he call the police or are we going to find out about that in 10 seconds? My understanding is he did not call the police. He was desperately trying. This all happened very quickly, mind you, by the time he started receiving those phone calls and trying to find a way to get to London. It was too late.
Meanwhile, Eric and Magalie continued their torment of the terrified siblings, mostly, of course, of Christy, and forced all of them into a bathtub before dousing them with ice-cold water as part of a purported cleansing ritual. On Christmas Day, after enduring a relentless and unimaginable three-and-a-half days of torment,
during which he sustained a staggering 130 severe injuries to his body and head, coupled with severe sleep deprivation, dehydration, and starvation. How could you sleep if that's going on? Christy's exhausted head slipped beneath the bathwater, and sadly, crushingly, he drowned.
Following this outrageously heartbreaking incident, the bathtub began to overflow, which caused flooding that affected neighboring apartments in the building. Concerned neighbors knocked on the door, but their efforts were met with silence, prompting them to alert the authorities. When police and paramedics arrived on the scene, they were confronted with a
A scene beyond comprehension. The apartment was strewn with bloody weapons, including a chisel, hammer, and broken serrated ceramic tiles. Blood was discovered all over the apartment, including the floor, walls, and ceiling. Despite efforts to resuscitate Christy upon the paramedics' arrival, it was tragically too late. Christy was gone.
Eric and Magalie were promptly arrested and charged with murder, in addition to two counts of actual bodily harm. At 8 p.m. that fateful evening, December 25, 2010, Pierre and Jacqueline received one final phone call from Kelly bearing the devastating news that their beloved 15-year-old son, Christy, was dead. Kelly was the younger sister? The sister. Okay. 20.
Oh, okay. That's right. Pierre was unable to eat for a week and a half following his son's murder out of a pain so severe that he could only describe it as unimaginable.
The ensuing trial that took place at the Central Criminal Court of England and Wales, which is commonly referred to as the Old Bailey after the street on which it stands, was intense. Eric's defense team entered a guilty plea of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. And this is kind of going back to what you were saying, right? Like he did not appear to be in his right mind. Yeah.
So the defense argued that the 28-year-old suffered from a schizophrenia-like brain disease. That's in quotes, because that's exactly what they said. That's what I was thinking before when you told me he was seeing rats at that age. Right, which would cause delusions and hallucinations. Henry Grunwald QC, which is one of Eric's attorneys, said, quote, "...what happened would not have ended as it did had it not been for Mr. Picubi's mental impairment."
Following his arrest, MRI scans also revealed that Eric had sustained brain damage at some point, likely the result of a childhood fall. And we know what a traumatic brain injury has the capability of doing to someone. A specialist provided testimony indicating that this damage could have led to schizophrenia-like delusions and psychosis. And instead of pursuing medical and psychological treatment over the course of his life, at any point, Eric...
always opted for prayer or his family opted for prayer or his family opted to isolate him. Yeah. Or he would conduct online research regarding Kendoke and potentially sought assistance from Nigerian pastors in North London.
None of that, obviously, was sufficient. Yeah. But the prosecution insisted that Eric face a murder trial, contending that he was not mentally ill, but rather harbored a deep-seated and troubling belief in witchcraft that motivated him to torture and ultimately kill Christy Bamu. The prosecution maintained that the acts of violence and torment inflicted upon Christy had escalated in cruelty and inventiveness, and
and that he possessed a clear understanding of his actions and their consequences with the tragic outcome being his deliberate intent. Furthermore, the prosecution contended that Magalie, while denying her involvement in the murder and the two counts of actual bodily harm against her sisters and brothers, had been a very willing accomplice to Eric's actions.
According to Brian Altman QC, quote, she not only encouraged him by her presence, but also more importantly, assisted and encouraged him by her words and actions to beat her own brother to death. Yeah.
Magalie's defense attorney, Philippa McAllisney QC, argued that she was manipulated by Eric as she did not even believe in witchcraft. I mean, she seemed pretty willing. This is tricky, right? Because she was in an abusive relationship with him. She doesn't get a pass. I'm not suggesting she gets a pass, but it is definitely more complex. Well...
The kids obviously were unwilling. Maybe she was as unwilling as they were. You also have to assume that as his girlfriend or wife at this point. Fiance. She spends a lot of time with him and she hears a lot of this kind of stuff, I'm sure, in passing and maybe at some point started to integrate it into her own. She did. And she mentioned that her tactic for coping was to just ride it out. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Kelly, however, which again is the 20-year-old sibling here, testified against her sister and spoke up the lack of remorse from her sister while she and her siblings begged her to stop brutally beating and torturing Christy, who clearly, clearly took the brunt of what went down over the course of those three days.
Kelly testified that Christie's face had been severely disfigured and he endured immense suffering, repeatedly begging for forgiveness as the torture persisted solely in an attempt to end his torment. Yeah, anything, trying anything. Kelly also underscored the fact that Magalie did nothing to stop it. While on the stand, Kelly looked at Magalie in court and said, I have no pity for her.
she had no pity for us. On Thursday, March 1st, 2012, Eric Bukubi and Magalie Bamu were found guilty of murder. And on March 5th, 2012, Eric was sentenced to a minimum of 30 years in prison and Magalie was sentenced to a minimum of 25 years in prison. Handing down his sentence, Judge David Paget stated that the killing surpassed belief. He then added the following, and this is a
a direct quote.
I am aware of the controversy of the meaning of the word sadistic in this context. I am in no doubt that this murder involved a sadistic element. The intention was to rid Christy Bamu of witchcraft. To do that, both of you brutalized and physically abused him until eventually he died. It was prolonged torture. A belief in witchcraft, however genuine, can never excuse an assault on another person or the killing of another human being.
No, yeah. So to be clear, the issue is not the belief itself. The issue is the practice of harming children in the name of that belief. So along those lines, this case sparked a serious question for me, which I mentioned earlier in the episode, and it genuinely piqued my intellectual curiosity. But I really want to make sure that it's understood that I raise and explore this question with the utmost respect and
without any intent of disrespect whatsoever. And I've always been open about my personal struggles with spirituality and religion, as well as my sincere desire to have faith, because I recognize the peace and the sense of purpose that it can bring. And amongst all of my other questions regarding religion, this case led me to wonder, with an open heart and inquisitive mind,
Could religious belief be seen as a form of mental illness or instability? All right. I'm not saying it does. I'm just,
You're so scared. I'm very scared because I can understand how this would be misinterpreted. Like, you know me so well. So you know where I'm coming from when I pose this question and why my mind went there. Yeah. I'll say one thing and then I want your response. It's generally accepted that if one talks to God, they're praying. But if God talks back, do you have schizophrenia? Yeah.
What are the distinctions between psychosis and spiritual experiences? Yeah. Oh, I don't know if I can answer that. You don't have to answer that. I just wanted to finish my thought, like where that question was coming from.
Faith expressed outward is, I don't want to say normal, but that's like what most people experience. You know what I mean? Like the expression of faith or expression of trust or dependence or whatever. And I hate when people tell me about their spiritual experiences because I don't believe anybody, but I have my own too. That's so interesting for you to say. I know. Well, I don't hate them. It's just like, I'm like, all right, sure. You know? But you believe in it. I know. It's very strange. Just for instance, when I lived in California, they
things were the worst they had been. They weren't as bad as they were going to get yet, but I was not doing great over there. I was maybe over there for like two or three months. And I said, I was struggling, and I said to myself, here's what I'm going to do with my life. I'm going to dedicate it to trying to make other people's lives better in some way. And in that moment,
I felt my whole body get lighter almost to the point where I came up off the floor. I didn't come off the floor, but like I felt like a legitimate lift. And that was spiritual for you. It was quite convincing at that point. But if you have somebody who uses religion to support their own agenda, the line has to be drawn somewhere, right? And if you're using your religion as a explanation for committing crime,
It doesn't fly with anybody. And anybody who's actually in those faiths, whether it's Islam, Jewish, Christian, whatever, they would go, no, that's not what we're doing. It's the extremists and they don't define the religion. No, they are the outliers. They're exemptions to the religion. But the problem is they create so much noise that it brings bad light to the religion, whatever it may be. You're right. You know? Right. Right.
Research suggests that distinguishing between psychotic and spiritual experiences can be difficult and complicated. Oh, yeah. It is. Oh, yeah. Because of the similarities between religious experiences and psychotic episodes. Religious experiences often involve auditory and or visual phenomena, and those with schizophrenia commonly report hallucinations and delusions that may resemble the events found within a religious experience.
Here's one other thing. Sorry to cut you off. But I think if you hear the voice of God once in your life, that's enough to convince you like there's something out there. Maybe if you're hearing it over and over and over again, I think there's like with anything, there's got to be a spectrum of which like you say, okay, this is not normal to hear God talking to you, but like it happened once when you were 19. Okay. It doesn't come back since. That gets tricky though, because who is anyone to say a certain number is appropriate and another is not?
I don't know. You know, I have no idea. Religious figures may interpret an individual being possessed by demons or hearing God as being spiritually plugged in. While a mental health practitioner may consider this individual to be delusional.
And if it's delusional, does that in any way impact the individual's legal accountability if they act on it? I don't think so. Because the criteria for an insanity defense is that a defendant must provide clear and convincing evidence that due to a mental illness, he or she did not mean to commit the act or did not realize that the criminal act was wrong. A defendant can be found legally insane if he or she can prove that they did not know that their actions were illegal.
at the time in which they were committing them. The insanity plea does not make any sense to me because either way, you got to go away. Well, it's a difference of where you're going when you go away. Either way, you have to be isolated from people you could hurt. That's...
100% recognized by the court. Yeah. They're going away. They're just maybe not going to prison. They're going to a facility to receive treatment. Yeah. I mentioned earlier this man named Dr. Richard Hoskins. He served as an expert witness for the prosecution in this trial.
Dr. Hoskins has studied Kendoke for more than 25 years and told the court that over 100,000 children in the Democratic Republic of Congo have been abandoned by families after being accused of being possessed. Really? Yes. Witch hunts are practiced today.
All around the globe, by the way, not just sub-Saharan Africa and the UK. Yeah. Some places where witchcraft have been historically significant and or are still being practiced today include India, Papua New Guinea, and which other countries? Pop quiz. Oh. Witchcraft is still practiced today? Yeah. A, Nepal and Saudi Arabia. Okay. B, Haiti and Thailand. Okay. C, Ghana and Indonesia. D, all of the above. Okay.
Haiti and Thailand. Maybe. Yes. Part of it. All of the above? Because the answer is all of the above. Aye, aye, aye. So it's in circulation around the entire planet. You can't just point to African nations and say, you know, it's happening there and only there and only comes to Europe when people from that area immigrate. Yeah. That's not the case. Yeah. I think it's...
Interesting, not bad or good. Just to me, it's interesting as like a study on human behavior, how the story of the Salem witch trials can hold so much weight and become so famous. And people are so outraged over the fact that this happened once in a town in Salem, 400, 500 years ago. And it only happened to like 21 people. I know, very small.
Or the fact that obviously slavery is the original sin of America. Horrific. But it goes on all over the world. I think there's more slaves today than there was at any point in history. I don't like the term selective outrage because it indicates that like people are choosing to be mad about something. But I do find it interesting that people, whether they choose it or not, I don't think they choose it. Just like I don't think you choose what you're happy about. Like certain things make you happy. Certain things make you mad.
But like, why? Why just that one thing? Why Salem holds so much weight? And there's witchcraft going on today. And 100,000 kids in just the Democratic Republic of Congo have been abandoned. In 2019, research revealed that the number of children known to have been abused in England over beliefs in witchcraft and possession had risen by a third in two years. Risen? Yes. Oh, my God.
Almost 2,000 suspected victims were identified by authorities in 2018 to 19, but experts believe the real figure may be far higher because of a lack of awareness of the phenomenon. Oh, I'm sure it is. And figures can only reflect cases
cases resulting in police investigations. This is the point now, the third time I'm circling back to this point. This is why it's almost scarier and harder when it's happening behind closed doors as opposed to a church or whatever, because then it's really off the grid. Now, a law was indeed enacted in 2004, stemming from the tragic case of an eight-year-old girl I mentioned earlier named Victoria Climier, who hailed from the Ivory Coast and suffered torture and murder at the hands of her great aunt and boyfriend in London in February of 2000. Victoria Climier,
Victoria's death was very publicly discussed and so huge were the failings of social services then that it ultimately led to a change in legislation in the form of the Children Act 2004, which produced major changes in child protection policies in the UK. It also sparked the widespread training of police, social workers and pastors.
So there are organizations that are really on the front line trying to make positive change and spread awareness and education. What's worrying is the tendency to view this type of abuse as differently from other forms dealt with by social services, law enforcement, and schools because it's faith-based. So although it feels perhaps instinctively uncomfortable, these cases do not require a special response.
existing child protection tools can and should be used as the abuse itself manifests within the four recognized categories of abuse in the UK, physical, sexual, emotional slash psychological and neglect. Yeah. With cases like Christie's, there doesn't necessarily need to be a focus on the religious beliefs, but rather on the acts of abuse themselves. Abuse is abuse. Exactly.
Crime is crime also. That's why I'm talking about with the religious or insanity or whatever. Crime is crime. Right. There are currently 47,000 children on at-risk registers in the UK. We need to ensure all frontline staff feel equipped to handle all forms of child abuse, including those linked to a belief in witchcraft and spiritual possession. And just to clarify, I think it's important to explore this type of
abuse with respect to it being faith-based so that you can understand the root of where it's coming from and eradicate it. But I don't think, obviously, that the crimes themselves can or should be treated differently because they're faith-based. I know it seems obvious, but people are a little bit hesitant, like schools or law enforcement, to get involved. Well, you don't want to discriminate against somebody based on their faith, right? But there's a big difference between discrimination and...
certain just bottom line behaviors that are human behaviors, crimes, whether or not you are an atheist believer or anything. Right. Right. You know,
Christy's father, Pierre, said in a statement, Yeah, that's terrible. Yeah.
As a businessman, my life is all about prevention, making things happen, anticipating things, seeing what other people don't see. This is the rhythm of my life. Always looking ahead. Always seeing things before the others. Seeing things other people do not see. But I didn't see Christy's death coming. Because I trusted someone I never should have trusted. I know that we are all human and we will all die one day. But I wish I could have died before Christy.
Can I make an inappropriate joke? It's kind of what you do. This is the rhythm of my life. Oh, yeah. I couldn't. I didn't hear a word you said after that because that's all I could hear in my head.
Okay. Dark humor for you fucking psychos out there. It's how I deal. Well, the final words Pierre heard from his beloved son, Christie were of him begging for his father to come save him. Incredibly, Pierre has since forgiven his son's killers. That's big. In a statement read to the court, Pierre,
Pierre indicated, we will never forget, but to put our lives back into sync, we must forgive. We take no comfort in the verdicts. We have been robbed of a beloved son, a daughter, a son-in-law. That sounds, Pierre,
You're a fucking monster of a human, like unbelievable example. Quite elevated. Yeah. I can honestly say, and God forbid, I could never imagine what he's going through. Yeah. But if I allow my mind to wander in that direction, I don't think I'd ever be able to find myself forgiving. So I give him a lot of credit because I think he's probably...
I don't want to say move on. I don't think you can ever move on from a child's death, but he's probably doing the best he can do with that weight off his chest. There's obviously losing a child is like you said, unimaginable, but,
or harboring resentment or all that is just more pain. So forgiveness is like for him a way to, like they say, forgiveness is not for the person you're forgiving. It's for you to be free of it. You know? That sounds nice. Yeah. In conclusion, Christy Bamu was described as being a fine young man who was kind and considerate. He was truly loved by his family and friends and remained a role model to his siblings throughout his life. Pierre hoped that Christy would go on to join him in his carpentry business and then one day take over.
As indicated by Pierre, Christy was becoming a man. But sadly, he will remain frozen in time as a teenager who was robbed of the future he so deserved to have.
In concluding the heart-wrenching saga of Christy Bamu, we are left not only with a profound sense of sorrow, but also with important questions that reverberate beyond this tragic tale. Christy's story serves as a stark reminder of the depths of cruelty that human beings can descend to, even within the confines of family bonds. Yet, amidst the darkness, we find glimmers of hope where we can. We
We see the resilience of survivors like Kelly who dare to speak the truth in the face of unspeakable horrors. We witness the dedication of law enforcement and advocates who tirelessly seek justice for those who cannot speak for themselves. And we as a society are compelled to reflect on the power of belief, spirituality, and the influence they can wield, both for healing and for harm.
Christy Bamu's legacy challenges us to confront the complexities of our own beliefs and to ensure that spirituality, when practiced responsibly, offers solace and meaning rather than becoming a cloak for brutality. It calls on us to protect the vulnerable, to be vigilant against the misuse of power, and to recognize the enduring importance of empathy and compassion in our world.
In honoring Christy's memory, we must commit ourselves to a future where no child has to endure such unimaginable suffering, where love triumphs over fear, and where the lessons learned from this tragedy guide us toward a more compassionate and just society.
society. The end. And that is the case. That was a nice ending. I feel not happy, but like comforted to hear that his father is dealing with it like that, which makes me even a little bit more sad that his son got killed because his son probably would have wound up like him, like any of his kids. And all of those kids are forever changed by that experience. I don't care who you are. Having to go through something like that is...
They are. Agonizing. I've read articles. They are. They are what? It's, it's the cross they're going to have to bear, pardon the pun, for the rest of their lives. And, and initially, certainly on the heels of when the incident happened, it was an uphill climb emotionally and psychologically. And I mean, that's such an understatement, but. Well,
Well, I've always said like, as far as like traumatic experiences go, your own traumatic experiences are hard in their own way. But I feel like watching someone you love go through something traumatic is, I don't want to say it's harder or whatever, but it's like, it's a different kind of hard. Exactly what I was just going to say. It's,
It's a different type of torture. Helpless, powerless, whatever. Somebody you care about suffering. That's why I think with like kids, it's so like when, when my, my son has this habit of anytime he gets hurt, screaming at the top of his lungs. He's not like being dramatic. Like he's like, let's say he scrapes his back on the corner of a fucking table, which he's done so many times. I don't know what this kid is doing with his back and the corner. Maybe you want to nerf those corners. Yeah.
Like whether it's the corner of the counter in the bathroom or the kitchen table or the counter in the kitchen, kids always dragging his body against that corner. And he screams and I'm like, oh my God, I hope to God he never really gets hurt and screams like that because I would just simply die. Would,
Would you know the difference if it was serious or the corner of a cabinet? Would I? Yeah, because... Yeah, I mean, if we got into a car accident... Oh, oh. I totally missed your point. I'm sorry. No, I mean, like, legit hurt. Because when he doesn't get hurt, the screaming hurts my heart. I'm comforted by the fact that he's not really hurt. It's just the pain. I see what you're saying. Oh, this is how we started this episode. Seeing your child in actual agony or worse, like in this case, there is nothing
nothing more excruciating in the world that in my belief. Or knowing what happened and not being there to actually have the memory, but like creating a memory from imagination is probably worse. To that point, Pierre said that he actually does not know everything that happened to Christy intentionally. Oh yeah. Because he cannot live with that. Great. I hope he doesn't listen to this and find out. I doubt it. If you're listening, Pierre, je t'aime.
That means I love you in French. Oh, yeah. Je m'appelle Brooke. Je pensais de vous. I'm thinking of you. Oui, oui. Okay. Wow. That case was a lot. Yeah, that was a lot. That was tough. That was a tough one all around to research, to deliver. But it's important to hear these things through and to honor the victim and the survivors as well. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh my God, I don't even know how to wrap this up. This is coming out the week of Christmas. So maybe we leave off by wishing our amazing,
little psychos out there a very very Merry Christmas Happy Hanukkah Happy Holidays all around if you believe if you don't believe if you celebrate if you don't celebrate we love you regardless you can still have a good Christmas if you don't celebrate it's just December 25th I hope you have a nice December 25th it's a day off enjoy alright well thank you for doing all that work my pleasure for sacrificing your sanity and your emotional stability to bring us these cases I don't know why you do it but I am appreciative of it
and we will see you guys at the next episode. Bye.