Shownotes Transcript
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Alright, welcome to another episode of Psychopedia, the only true crime podcast that mixes gruesome happenings of the past with comedy, making it a crimity podcast. I'm Tank Sinatra, your co-host with my co-host... Investigator Slater. Investigator Slater. She's the real deal. I'm a heel. Whoa!
I mean, I don't know where that came from, but Investigator Slater, she's like, you know, she's the real deal. She loves true crime. She works in the space. I don't get it, to be quite honest with you. I mean, I know people love true crime, and I even know why they love true crime, because you've explained it to me, but I'm not there yet. So you are someone who is enthusiastic, passionate, willing,
well-researched, detailed about this stuff because you're obsessed with it, which I think is a little weird, but it is what it is. And I'm here to find out what all the hype is about. Appreciate you being here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm interested in the fact that people are interested in it. I think that's interesting. I'll keep saying interesting. It's an interesting podcast. Yeah, for an hour. Just interesting over and over again. So she's going to walk me through the case. I'm going to derail it constantly with side comments and
jokes, unfortunately, because that's how I deal with my anxiety, not only around the crime itself, but around my discomfort with talking about it, because I tend to think true crime, because it's true, is more dangerous because it actually happens. So it kind of scares me. It's scary stuff.
You're scared too? I'm scared, but it thrills me. And I like to understand the layers of complexity involved in each case. It doesn't turn me off. It just, it sucks me in every time. Is it like a rollercoaster ride for you? Yes. Like where you know you're safe, but you're kind of not. Something could go wrong. Something could go wrong. Something does go wrong for the people involved in the case. But yes, it is like a rollercoaster ride. You're right. Additionally, if you're familiar with this case, you
You probably listen to too much true crime. There's no such thing. No, yeah, you're right. If you don't, then you're going to be just as interested in I as I am in the case. And if you do, Brooke is... You can call me Brooke. Investigators later. We go way back. Is going to throw me some curveballs and try and throw me off the trail by doing a really good job of preparing multiple choice questions that she actually does come off a little crazier than the actual case. So...
With no further ado, let's start digging into the case. But I always like to know, were people saying, yeah, she ain't right? Or were they like, yeah, man. Or are they like, hey, that's dope. Like what time period? They were saying, hey, that's dope. It's a recent case? It's a relatively recent case. They were wearing JNCOs. They were wearing butterfly clips in their hair. The men were wearing like coiffed, fluffy hair. So this is like my worst nightmare. This is like a crime from the 90s? Yes.
And why is that your worst nightmare? I love that. Because that's when I was told I was going to be kidnapped. Oh, I see. I'm sorry. That's when I was in the most fear. I thought we were talking shitly fashion because like I love 90s fashion. But yeah, that's the time you were being raised and scared to death. So there's this book called How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. And in the book, there's a quote from I think it's Michelle de Montaigne. Pretty good, right? Yeah.
Where he says, my life was filled with unfortunate events and circumstances, 99% of which never occurred. Never happened. Yeah. That's where we live. That's the space we all live in, don't you think? Yeah. And your body doesn't know the difference. So if you're walking around with a dry mouth and high blood pressure and you have a panic attack, it's like, there's no lion nearby at all. Gazelles don't have panic attacks. Yeah.
That you know of. That I know of. They do get eaten by lions. Right. Which is, you know. But they don't live in fear about it. Maybe they should be living a little bit more fear. I mean, maybe they should wise enough. Fucking watch out. So I had to deal with that. And then I remember one time I took a girl on a date and I dropped her off at her place at her apartment or whatever, which I think was behind the house. She knew she was being crazy, but she didn't care because she needed to survive.
And this was right around the time I read that quote. She's like, can you just pull in this way so the headlights aim back there and I can see? Smart girl, really. She's like, and I'm like, yeah, sure. Why? Is there like a step or something that you don't want to miss? She's like, no, I just- Don't want to get raped and killed tonight. Every night I walk into my apartment, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be raped and killed. Oh my God. And I was like, oh, so your body, your DNA just gets raped and killed every night. Well-
I think it's definitely a different existence. Like the life that you live as like a tank is very different from the life I live as a very, very small woman. Like when you're walking through a parking lot, curious. Yeah. Let's say you're leaving the mall. It closed. It's dark.
Do you ever think about your survival when you're walking from fucking Bloomingdale's to your car? 100%. You do? So here's what I'll tell you. We're going to get to the case, but we're having a good time. So there's this movie, Tupac Resurrection, where he talks about... I don't remember the context of it, but he's like...
You think just because I'm black and I grew up in a hood, I'm not scared of a gun? Of course I'm scared of a gun. I was like, holy shit. And then my immediate thought was like, I wonder if poor black people think that white people don't worry about money. Or I wonder if small adults think that I don't fear for my safety just because I'm big. But the difference is you'll still take that walk from Bloomingdale's to your car. Oh, sure. I won't. I won't.
Like I'll shop earlier. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, no. Okay. Or I will have the key in between my fingers so that I can stab someone in the jugular if I had to. Or I have mace in one hand. But this is literally how I'm walking from the store to my car.
As a teenager and an early 20s young male, I definitely experienced that more. But I think as time went on, I just realized that it was so highly unlikely that I don't think about it. Well, you've survived to this point. Yeah. I'm also 250 pounds. Fucking jacked. Maybe you can be my bodyguard the next time I go shopping. Yeah. Just let me know next time we go into Bloomingdale's. All right. You ready for this case? Yes. Okay. As ready as you're ever going to be? Yep. I just got ready right now.
When you think of Barbie and Ken, what comes to mind? Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie. Oh, God. Yeah. That's not what I was thinking. I am so excited for that movie. I just love Ryan Gosling. I know you do. I love him. Even though I'm not gay, I would still consider. You've always had a thing for him. Yeah, I really like him. I don't know. Maybe he's not my type. I don't see it. I mean, I see that he's attractive, but I'm not into him the way you are. First of all, how dare you? Okay.
All right, no, let's not derail it too much. So when I think of Barbie and Ken, I think of smooth crotches because they were always naked when I was... Asexual. Asexual, yeah. The normal person thinks of that all-American, attractive, well-dressed, usually blonde, plastic couple. This is how society viewed the all-Canadian human couple, Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka, back in the late 80s, early 90s.
Outwardly, they were the perfect, beautiful couple. Paul had that Jason Priestley coiffed hair. He had nice hair. He had nice hair. Must be nice. Is that a sore spot? It's okay. Must be nice, Paul. And Carla had the fluffy bangs, sparkling blue eyes, seductive smile. They looked like they could have been on the cast of 90210. That perfect. At the Peach Pit. Yeah. With Nate. Hanging with Nate. Nat. Nat. At the Peach Pit. Short A. Right. Okay.
So Paul and Carla may have appeared to have it all on the outside, but just like the real Barbie and Ken dolls, they were completely hollow on the inside. Nice. Yeah. And instead of having props like a Barbie dream house or a pink convertible, this knockoff brand had a supply of heavy duty drugs, a nineties edition video camera and a broken moral compass. Wow. Yeah.
Not great. You wrote that? Yeah. It's pretty good. Yeah. I'm not surprised. You looked a little surprised. Just impressed. Okay.
Tonight, I bring you the case of the infamous Canadian serial killers known around the world as the Ken and Barbie killers. No, they killed people? They did. Also, I hate how it's the Ken and Barbie killers. Like, it should be the Barbie and Ken killers, but maybe that's a Canadian thing? Barbie's the predominant force. The woman should come first, I'm just saying. Ken was an afterthought. Right. Well, not with this title.
So we're beginning this story in the year 1987 with Carla Homolka, a.k.a. Barbie. As I mentioned, she was attractive. She was a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very
She was flashy. She was stylish. She lived in St. Catharines, which is a mid-sized city in southern Ontario, Canada. She was hot. She was a hottie. She was a very, very bad person. So let's not get too excited. She had a lovely normal family who enjoyed getting together on special occasions, hosting weekly Sunday dinners, hanging out, like very quintessential family.
Because she was hot. Maybe that contributed. And that last name Homolka's got some... Homolka's decent. ...pizazz to it. She's a good girl.
She was also remarkably driven. And at the young age of 17, she'd already known that she wanted to work with animals. Like you. Relatable. So she and her friend decided to travel to Toronto to attend a pet convention. Have you ever been to a pet convention? No, I thought you were going to say Chihuahua. You said Toronto. Toronto. Yeah. I've never been to a pet convention. What is it? Just a bunch of pets? I have.
Well, there are pets there, but it's really just like a bunch of- Dog people? Really crazy animal people. I'm among them, so I feel like I can poke fun at this, but we're just a breed unto our own. Like, you really can't imagine the level of dedication- I love dogs. To four-legged creatures. But you are on another level. I know. I don't apologize for it. I'm not asking you to. I love dogs more than people. Just making an observation. Just saying. You love dogs more than people. I do. I do.
Do you think if dogs could talk, you'd feel differently? Maybe. Yeah. But they don't, so I don't have to go there. Because I know my dog, Ollie, would not have been saying nice things if he was verbal. Okay. You know. But he still might have been better than any human you ever met. Very true. I'm not knocking dogs. I love dogs. I know. I live with two dogs. Owning sounds like, you know. You're the daddy to two dogs. I'm the dog father. Right. Better. Dog father. Yeah. The dog father.
So while in Toronto for this convention, Carla hit the hotel bar. I also, I believe the hotel bar was at a Howard Johnson's, so we're not talking swanky, but nevertheless, she hit the bar. Carla hit the hotel bar. That was a cool sentence.
At this bar, she met Paul Bernardo, a 23-year-old college graduate who worked as an accountant at Price Waterhouse. 17-year-old Carla and 23-year-old Paul hit it off immediately, and they decided to continue their conversation up in a room at the hotel, which, of course, instantly led to sexual intercourse. So if you think it's gross for a 23-year-old man to have sex with a 17-year-old teenager, you'd be correct.
Not back in the 90s. Well, it's worth mentioning, seriously, that until May 2008, the age of consent in Canada was 14. What? Yeah. It's 16 now, but at the time it was 14. Still creepy as fuck, but not illegal.
Wow. Till 2008? Yep. That means if you were born in 1992, in 2016, you could have got married or had sex? Yeah. When I was 15, my boyfriend at the time was 18. And when we would hang out at his house, his mother would never let us have the bedroom door shut. So
So I would always listen because they would always be fighting about it. I would always hear her saying, her father's a lawyer. Oh my God. She's going to be an investigator. She'll ruin us. So the door was always open. I mean, it just meant you just have to get creative. Yeah. Like, I don't know what people think that's deterring from. But anyway, in spite of the age difference, Carla and Paul achieved official boyfriend-girlfriend status. They were really genuinely into each other and Carla's parents and her two sisters loved Paul.
He was charming, he was charismatic, he was extremely doting. He would spend holidays with the Homolkas, come over for meals. He just, he would constantly win over the entire family with his magnetism. However, despite their seemingly perfect relationship and life, there was one particular quality about Carla that Paul simply could not accept.
Here's your first pop quiz. All right, great. Was it, A, that Carla wasn't a virgin when she and Paul first started dating? Mm-hmm. B, Carla would receive more attention when they'd go out, leading to jealousy and resentment? Or C, Carla would insist that her numerous pets stay in the room with them during sex, often in their bed? Numerous pets.
False. What? God. False. Okay, let me, hold on. I mean, she may have done that. There's nothing out there in the research, but that's not the correct answer. And the other one was that she was a virgin and she got more attention? Yeah. That she wasn't a virgin? Correct. That she wasn't a virgin? That's your answer? Yeah. You got it right. Wow. So, not bad. First one. Okay.
So she wasn't pure when they first met. Pure is like air quotes. Yeah. Okay. Which irked him. Yeah. To put it mildly. As a result. What did he, you know, what's the. It was his thing. And you're, it's going to become more clear as we go on. But that was like a very big deal to him.
So as a result, Paul would constantly shame Carla and suggest that she was filthy and slutty. And these insults would devastate her, right? They would leave her feeling inadequate and even guilty about having had a sexual life before meeting Paul. How dare you know people before me? Right. And as I said, this unusual focus on Carla's virginity
would later become the impetus for the most abhorrent acts of violence you can imagine. Oh, God. But just hang on. We'll get to it. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.
My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.
So, desperate to maintain Paul's interest, Carla would change her hairstyle, her clothing, whatever Paul directed, she would do. She also had to keep up with his increasingly perverse sexual demands. After a few years of dating, Carla and Paul began to engage in sadomasochism, with Paul acting as the abusive master and Carla as the willing slave. Was she willing, though? Mm.
She was in this context. Okay. Funny you should bring that up because later on she sort of, definitely not sort of, she definitely implies that she was never willing in any of the things that happened. That's not true. She was 100% willing and a complete equal participant in everything that follows. Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. Because they got crazy. They get crazy. Okay.
Her dependence and desperation to hold on to Paul made her malleable and ripe for manipulation. But however you look at it, she was willingly involved in what happens next. Malleable and ripe for manipulation. It's like, did you use a thesaurus? I'm not dumb. Is this news to you?
No, I'm just, you know what? I've been listening to this audio book and I'm so impressed with the writing. I found myself rewinding it like I would like a rapper. Really? Yo, I gotta run. I gotta hear that again. Thin crust of society with an undercapitalized population. Well, that was impressive. Yeah. I mean, the words are very good. All right. Thank you. I listen to a lot of Winston Churchill.
As it turned out, Paul was not exactly a newbie at playing the role of a violent and domineering master. Oh, so he'd been about that life. This was not his first rodeo, I'm afraid. Because unbeknownst to Carla, but then later with her approval. Later knownst. Later knownst. Paul had been brutally raping young girls in Scarborough, Ontario for years.
Since May of 1987, the Ontario suburb of Scarborough had a serial rapist on the loose known only as the Scarborough Rapist.
This man typically preyed upon young women under the age of 21. He would attack them from behind and outside while forcing the victims to call themselves degrading names. This was his M.O. This is always how he did his thing. But since Paul would attack his victims from behind, very few would be able to describe him. But a few did mention that their assailant had been young, blonde, and attractive. Oh, he had blonde hair too? Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, okay. Yeah. Jason Priestley. That's right. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Between 19- You should have said Danny Pintaro from Who's the Boss? Oh, God, I missed the boat on that. Yeah. By the way, Alyssa Milano, I get told all the time that I look like her. I see it. All the time. Yeah. Yes. She played a witch at one point in her career. I mean- She's a little crazy now, but- It's okay. I still- Aren't we all? Right. No judgment.
Between 1987 and 1992, Paul, a.k.a. the Scarborough Rapist, assaulted between 19 and 24 women. Wait, how long? Between 1987 and 1992. Jeez.
You may be wondering, and I know you're wondering because you just brought it up, how someone who was born and raised in a wealthy suburban environment by two parents in a seemingly stable home could go on to become a serial rapist. And then some. There are likely many answers to that question. One of them being the fact that he later in life garnered a score of 30 to 35 out of 40 on the psychopathy scale.
Which officially makes him a psychopath. Yeah. The average American scores closer to a five on the checklist. And he got 30 to 35 out of 40. I kind of want to take that test, but I also don't. Well, I thought maybe we could run through it. Really? See how you do. It's a 20 item inventory or checklist of perceived personality traits and recorded behaviors in
intended to be completed on the basis of a semi-structured interview with a mental health professional. I am not a mental health professional, but we can just take a look at the list real quick. Would you even know what my answers meant? No. Oh, okay, good. Yeah, let's go. No, but here's the things that they look for. Here's what they- By the way, real quick, sorry to derail. That's another reason I don't love watching serial killer documentaries or whatever, because they're always like-
You relate to the psychopath? Yeah. Yeah. I know. He was a normal boy. He wound up bald. He made memes for a living. Like, what the fuck? Like, am I going to kill everybody? Yeah. Jeez. Am I going to like, am I going to wind up in jail? Am I going to snap one day? But I also have found that, I mean, I'm 42 years old. I've done some research. If I was going to snap. It would have happened. Yeah. It would have like schizophrenia or any of that stuff. It's really a combination of anxiety.
Nurture in nature. Thank God I had a great mom, great dad. Yeah. And also your chemical makeup is such that you are not prone to massacring human beings. No, I don't like violence. Right. But I feel like the people who do also feel bad about it, but maybe do they not? Well, a psychopath typically lacks empathy. Is it like a werewolf situation where they're like, ah, get away from me? They snapped type thing? No, like, ah, it's a full moon. Get away. I'm going to hurt you.
Is it like that? Yep. Exactly like that. Wow. Interesting. No, you're joking. Yeah. I have no idea where you're going with this werewolf. But you know, you're violent and you know, you're unable to control it. Oh, so you want. Yeah. I think there, listen, we looked at last week, we looked at Issei Sagawa, right? He knew he was this like very, very disturbed individual and he tried to cap it and he tried to get help.
Paul Bernardo, on the contrary, really ran with it. I thought it was cool. Yeah, it was what defined him, and he did not apologize for it. All right, with psychopathy, psychopathy test, a few things. Yeah, there's 20 things on the list. I don't want to go through it all, but the things I would say that— Where did you find it for people who want to— I mean, you can literally Google it. It is everywhere. What if you get a bad test? What if you get a test that's like a bad COVID test where you come up positive and you're actually not positive? Yeah.
go see a mental health professional. Okay. That's a good call. Okay. Yeah. But there are some telltale signs of psychopathy. You can take a look at the list. I don't want to go through it now because I'll keep everyone here for too long. Yeah. And keep in mind, obviously, if you have a few items on this list, it does not make you a psychopath. Yeah. Everyone probably has a few items. But if you have the majority of these items coupled with maybe how, you know, some things that happened in your life, it ain't looking good. It's like the test on the back of the meetings about drinking. Okay. What meetings?
Stop drinking meetings. Got it. I don't talk about it publicly because I can't represent it at a level of press, radio, and films. Interesting.
Good to know. Good to know, right? So there's 10 questions on the back. It's so funny because you're like trying not to get a 70 or an 80 on the test. And then you get to the bottom and it says, if you have answered yes to three or more of these questions, you have a definite problem with alcohol. I was just trying not to pass. I wouldn't want to take the test, right? Yeah, I was just like, I'm good. I got my pencil. And I lied on a few too. And I still got an 80. Yeah.
Terrifying. Yeah. You know the test, what color is my parachute? It's like a personality test that you take in high school to decide what you're going to do with the rest of your life. Yeah. So my twin sister took that test in high school and my twin sister is very, very bright. She went to Cornell undergrad, NYU grad. She's just very bright. Yeah.
The result of the what color is my parachute test told her she should be a locker room attendant. Wow. So like take these tests with a fucking grain of salt. Yeah, true. Locker room attendant. Yeah. Jeez. Imagine she actually listened. Yeah. To that. She was just like folding towels. I mean, you know what? Seeing naked people all day long. Maybe there's nothing wrong with that. You've never been in a male locker room. No, I never planned to be. It's not great.
Paul also experienced a traumatic... Wait, what are the questions? Oh, we're going to go into it? A few. Give me like two or three. It's not questions. It's like traits. Okay. Superficial charm. Oh, God. Sense of self-worth. Oh, Jesus. Proneness to boredom. Oh, God. Oh, God.
Pathological lying. No, don't have that. Cunning slash manipulative. Don't really love that either. Lack of remorse or guilt. Nope. I have tons of remorse and guilt all the time for no reason. I fucking live with guilt, but I'm also Jewish. It's like in my DNA. Shallow affect. Don't know what that means. Lack of empathy. Have empathy. Parasitic lifestyle.
Like glomming onto people? Yeah. I would love to, but no, I don't do that. But you don't do it? Yeah. Poor behavioral controls? No, I'm pretty good at that. Okay. Promiscuous sexual behavior? Never in my life. Paul would have loved me. Early behavior problems? No, pretty good. Lack of realistic long-term goals? Wildly unrealistic, but in a good way. Okay. Impulsivity? Irresponsibility? Nope, I'm super responsible. All right, I'm not a psychopath. We're good. You're good. Yeah.
Juvenile delinquency? No. Okay. I think you're good. We're good.
So Paul also experienced, now that we've put that to bed. Yeah. He also experienced a traumatic life altering event when he was only 16 years old, which seemingly changed the course of his entire life combined with other factors as well. When Paul was 16 years old, his mother told him that he was actually the product of an extramarital affair that she'd had with a man. And the man that he believed was always his father was not. Right.
Paul, from that point on, began to refer to his own mother as a slob, as a whore. When he went off to study at the University of Toronto, he became adept at picking up women at bars for the purpose of later humiliating and beating them. He used violence as a way of maintaining control over women, whom by this point he just deeply hated and distrusted. So you want to hear something strange? I can't tell you who it is.
Maybe I'll write it down, but there's a very famous person who I've heard that about. Not all the other stuff, but like he will go out, get a woman interested in him. Obviously they are falling all over themselves for him. And then some point at the end of the night, he'll turn and be like, why would you think I'd ever be interested in you? You loser. You're disgusting. That's horrendous. You know what I, you know, okay. That's,
Isn't that weird? That's so fucked up. That person is so unwell. Yeah. It's so strange. I mean, I guess at a certain point you get tired of like, I don't know, life and you got to spice it up. Spice it up in another fucking way. I don't know. Join a gym. Join a different gym, dude. Like figure it out. God.
I know there's definitely, but I've heard that, you know, I think Ted Bundy was the one who interviewed a bunch of serial killers in prison and he found that all of them had roots in porn. So you look at porn, then the porn's not enough. Maybe it's pictures at first and it's got to be video. Well, exactly right. That's the thing with people. You need the escalation of what you're viewing to get you off. Yeah.
Unchecked escalation. But then watching something is not good. Then you got to bring it into real life. Exactly. Then the sex work is not enough. Then you got to beat her up a little bit. Then you have to get her, you know, loving you. Yeah. You have to fuck with her. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. Unchecked escalation is no good. No bueno. So Paul's a real sweetheart, right? We've established that. Quick little quiz before we move on. Yes. What book did Paul refer to as his Bible and carry around with him everywhere?
A, American Psycho. American Psycho. B, A Clockwork Orange. C, The Rules of Attraction. American Psycho. Wow. I am super impressed. I got it right? Yeah. Wow. You got it right.
Which, by the way, Rules of Attraction is a sequel to American Psycho. I don't know if you knew that. I didn't. I did. I didn't think you did. I wouldn't have put that on my list. Fuck. So what's the guy's name? James Van Der Beek? I didn't even realize Rules of Attraction was a sequel. Okay. He calls Patrick Bateman during one scene of the movie and like talks to him about something. He needs advice from him.
Really? James Van Der Beek is Patrick Bateman's younger brother in Rules of Attraction. Okay. The main character. Wait, is that Dawson? Dawson, yes. Oh my God. I know, it was wild to watch. And that movie came out in like 2005 maybe or 2006. Dawson's Creek was like not that old at that point. That's crazy. I was like, holy shit, dude. Jesus. Was he good? Oh my God, so good.
The thing is, when you're typecast, it's very hard to switch gears. Like, I'm not so sure I would see a good actor in that. Like, I would see Dawson. Maybe. Although that's not true because I've seen Steve Carell in serious roles. Yeah. And he's phenomenal. Well, you got to be a great actor. That's why Christian Bale, American Psycho, was his breakout hit. I mean, that guy can do anything. Yeah, he's really talented. He's also apparently very horrendous to people in real life. But I don't know for sure. So we're not going to shit talk.
In 1990, a survivor was able to provide a composite sketch of the... A survivor of a rape and murder attempt. Just rape. Okay. Just rape. Like it's... Yeah. You know. Well, what should we... She provided a composite sketch of the Scarborough rapist, and it was printed on the front page of every newspaper. After which, three additional young women came forward to identify the man in the sketch as their attacker. Point.
Paul was actually brought in for questioning, not once, but twice. And both times he left the police precinct after convincing officers that he was innocent. Super charming psychopath. Here's the thing with psychopaths. Exactly. They're expert manipulators. They're superficially charming. And in Paul's case, he's an extreme narcissist and he has a superiority complex. Not a great mix.
He got one over them. He got two over them. They pulled him in twice, and both times he walked out. Wow. So DNA testing at this point, 1990, it was a thing. Okay. It was new, but it was a thing. So they decided to swab Paul, and they sent his sample to the Toronto Centre of Forensic Science. Unfortunately, his DNA sample sat untested in the lab for two years amongst 50,000 other samples. What?
And all this while, Paul went on living his worthless life and engaging in violent sexual behavior with Carla and, of course, with unconsenting young women. With Carla? Well, they had the Sato-Mac- I really struggle with this. Sato-Mac- Sato-Mac-a-Noodle. Mac and cheese. Mac and cheese.
So wait, so him and Carla were doing it together or he was doing it? They were. I know they were doing the sadomasochism thing. Were they then teaming up on a unsuspecting, unwilling participant? So Carla was aware that Paul was doing this. Yeah. And she approved and condoned it. Wow. She's not well herself. Yeah. But she was also so desperate for his approval that. That's a sign of unwellness also. Yeah. Correct.
These are unwell people. That we're talking about. That we're talking about. True crime. True crime. Listen, they're disgusting. We should lock them both up and throw away the key. Truly. That said, I do empathize with mental health issues. I thank God. When I first got sober, I used to thank God every day for helping me not drink, not turning me into a serial killer. Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean? Like not a horrific person. Cause I knew at that point from experience with the drinking and the drugs, these people had to be acting against their own best judgment and will have to, they got it. Like I watched this movie, lovely bones. Have you ever seen that movie? Oh, uh, no, no, no. I'm thinking, no, I haven't. I think I read the book though. But anyway, so in the movie, the guy says something that like really shook me. He's like, or maybe the girl's narrating it. She's like,
He had the itch and he knew it would have to be scratched eventually. And I was like, oh, oh God. You're like, I need some cortisone cream. Just cut that piece of your body out. Yeah. Well, that's how lobotomies were used back in the day. Yeah. People that struggled with mental health issues, they literally thought if I take a chunk of your brain out, we're going to rewire you and you'll be fine. Well, they took out the part that was responsible for emotion. And impulse. Yeah. Which left them with no drive. Digitative and.
They only had the logical part of their brain left. They thought it would help. I mean, I'll be honest with you. If I was on that board of researchers, I would have been like, yeah, do it. Fucking of course. Yeah, they had enough failed lobotomies where they should have realized it wasn't effective at all. Well, maybe those people would have killed. Sign us up.
So at this point in the case, we're still in 1990. And we've laid the foundation for the crux of the case relating to the Ken and Barbie killers, which is fucking nuts. So race for impact. Paul is 26. Carla is 20.
It's Christmas time. Paul decides to spend the holiday with Carla at her family's home. Remember how I said Paul simply could not let Carla forget how disappointed he was in her for not being a virgin when they first met? This was a constant thorn in her side and it really kept eroding her.
I mean, this guy, it is also usually the people who are the worst who judge the harshest. Like, why are you giving her such a hard time for having sex before you met? When you're out raping women. When you're out raping. Right. Like, ooh. Again, just fucking unwell sickos.
While spending Christmas with the Homolkas, Carla made the decision to give Paul the gift she knew he would appreciate the most. And that was her 15-year-old sister's virginity. Oh my God. After Carla's parents went to bed on the night of December 23rd, Carla and Paul served Tammy, Carla's younger sister, 15 years old,
Alcohol spiked with a drug called triazolone, which is a central nervous system depressant used to treat insomnia. Carla, who was employed at a vet's office, because remember she loved animals, had regular access to all kinds of hardcore drugs. She nicked a general anesthetic called halothane, which was a drug used to completely sedate an animal before it underwent a surgical procedure, like general anesthetic, very heavy duty stuff. Now,
Now, this drug is intended to be used with a vaporizer, but instead, Carla poured the anesthetic straight onto a cloth, covered Tammy's face with it until she was fully and completely knocked out. My brother-in-law is an anesthesiologist, so I called him because I was curious about halothane and vaporizers and what's the deal. Apparently, a vaporizer is necessary with a drug like halothane, which really actually isn't used anymore because...
Because you're able to control how strong the drug is when you mix it with a vaporizer. So it just allows you to select the percentage of gas flowing into someone. It's kind of an important thing to have. And anybody working with this product, like Carla, would have known that.
Tammy was down for the count. She was drugged. She was unconscious. And that's when Paul began to vaginally and anally rape her. Oh, my God. And if that were not egregious enough, Carla joined in in the assault. The fact that Paul was like, oh, you got me this for Christmas? Oh, sweetie, you shouldn't have. Oh, my God. Can't wait to rape. Like, that's wildly bizarre. Yep. Can't even... Usually I can like, okay, see...
somewhat of like a perspective on things that's throwing me for a loop not that i'm so glad to hear that not only the fact that she offered it he wasn't like hey this is a little much for me he's the scarborough rapist yeah he doesn't have to do any of the work it's brought to him so carla joins in in the assault and if that weren't egregious enough they filmed it
Suddenly, during this nightmare scene, Tammy began to choke on her own vomit. Since she was unconscious, there was not much she could do to help clear her airways, and she ultimately suffocated on the vomit and died.
Oh my God. Well, I'll say something. Yeah. Maybe not cool to say. Maybe she's better off having died. Do you know what? I hear where you're coming from and I know you well enough to know that that's not a dick comment. Like it's a mercy in a way that she doesn't have to. Because her having to wake up and feel all that stuff displaced in her and know that her sister and her sister's boyfriend. How do you recover from that? So she, she dies. And this is in the basement of the Homolka household. Right.
Immediately, Carla and Paul begin to cover their tracks. They hide the video camera, the drugs, the alcohol. They put Tammy's clothing back on and they actually called emergency services. Tammy was taken to the hospital. This is the thing, right? So we'll hear more that they engage in, whether you like it or not. There's going to be more after this. And they do call emergency services on more than one occasion. So it does make you wonder whether...
was murder part of their plan or not, right? Like if they called 911 for Tammy, let's just use Tammy, because this is where we are in the case. They didn't mean to kill her, perhaps, right? Maybe they really just meant, not just, but their goal was to rape her when she was unconscious. And maybe they expected her to come out of it. And that was that. And be fine. And maybe be fine, maybe not. I don't even know if they thought, obviously, beyond. Yeah, these people don't think. Right. So impulsivity, I guess, is a problem. Impulsivity.
Tammy was taken to the hospital and she was pronounced dead on arrival. She was only 15. Yeah, it's terrible. Now, when the Niagara Police Department showed up at the family home, Carla indicated that Tammy's death had been a tragic accident, that she was profusely drunk and she just choked on her own vomit. No further questions were asked and Tammy's death was officially ruled accidental. In spite of the fact that Tammy's face displayed any knowledge
enormous chemical burn on the left side. You can Google this. I don't recommend it. I don't recommend like Googling, you know, this poor girl's end of life situation. Yeah. But when you're researching a case, you tend to stumble upon these things. She has a huge red chemical burn on her face. Tammy. Tammy, the victim. Carla and Paul said that it was carpet burn.
Nobody followed up on it. And it was like very clearly a chemical burn. Also, I don't think a toxicology report was ever done. Well, I was just going to say no autopsy. Right. And I don't think that an examination for evidence of sexual trauma was ever done. It was kind of like, oh, here's this like white couple, Barbie and Ken, like they're saying this is what happened. We're just going to leave it alone. And that was it. And it was ruled accidental. Yeah.
It's unclear whether Carla had intentionally murdered her sister or whether it was just an awful accident.
Still, following Tammy's death, here's your next quiz. Which of the following thing happened? A, Paul lost interest in Carla after realizing just how much he preferred raping virgins. B, Carla regularly dressed up in Tammy's clothing and had sex with Paul in Tammy's old bedroom, essentially reenacting the rape and murder. These are both so bad. C, Carla decided to gift Paul another innocent young virgin. Or D, all of the above.
D. Wow. You are getting good at this. They're terrible. They're all, all three choices are so bad. That even I couldn't make it up. That if it wasn't one of them, I was going to seriously start questioning what is wrong with you to be able to come up with those scenarios. You should probably still question that if I'm being honest.
Paul's violent and sadistic impulses only mounted after Tammy's death. So to satiate his perverse and seemingly insatiable appetite, Carla befriended a teenage girl for the purpose of sacrificing her virginity to Paul. Same thing. She brings this teenager home. They drug her. They get the video camera set up. Paul rapes her. And this girl begins to choke on her own vomit. Yeah.
They call 911. Part two. But then they canceled the ambulance that they had just called because this girl cleared her airways and she came to. The thing with this girl, who's only known as Jane Doe because she was a minor at the time and she survived, she had no memory of what happened. And that probably saved her life. Thank God, yeah. So she left and that was that. Interestingly, later that month, Carla and Paul got married and Jane Doe was in attendance. She had no clue what happened to her. She had no memory. Okay.
So the Barbie and Ken killers were married in June of 1991. And on the day of their wedding, some people canoeing on Lake Gibson stumbled upon a gruesome discovery. Here is your third quiz. Did they find three vials of halothene, a used condom, and a BCR tape? Did they find cement blocks containing human body parts sticking out? Or did they find a copy of American Psycho with splashes of blood and semen on the cover?
A? No. Oh. I'm sorry. Wait, hold on. So B? Yes. They found eight blocks of cement containing human body parts sticking out. Terrible. Terrible.
The dismembered remains belonged to a 14-year-old missing schoolgirl named Leslie Mahaffey. Two weeks earlier, Paul abducted Leslie from her own backyard, drove her to his home with Carla, blindfolded her, raped her, tortured her, humiliated her for 24 hours on loop. What a fucking nightmare. And per usual, they filmed the whole thing.
Here's the difference, one difference between Leslie and Jane Doe. Leslie's blindfold dropped in the middle of her attack. So she was able to see Carla and Paul. And once that happened, Carla administered a lethal dose of drugs and Paul strangled her and she died. Wow, 14.
Then Paul dismembered her body with a circular saw, encased her remains in cement, and threw the blocks of cement into the lake. And then what, the cement broke apart? No, the canoers found the cement with the body parts sticking out. Oh my God. After their wedding day, another body was found, the body of a 15-year-old girl named Kristen French. She was found on the Burlington ditch on the side of the road with her head shaved and
Wow. These people are...
I need to know what happened. So I know we just did a quiz. Yeah. This might be your last one. I don't remember. But I feel like we need maybe a brief palate cleanser. And this is just way too good to pass up. Multiple choice. Here we go. Did Pearl Bernardo, A, keep a Mickey Mouse watch once belonging to Kristen in a fanny pack that he actually wore? B, did he attempt a career in rap while idolizing rap artist Vanilla Ice? Yes.
Or C, did he film himself dancing to MC Hammer's You Can't Touch This before sharing it on a new information system called the World Wide Web? Wow. I think, and I hope it's out there, that he recorded himself dancing to You Can't Touch This? No, I am good at this. You are really good at this. Yeah, I really research what's happening during the time frame to throw you off, and it works almost every time. Wow.
I don't want to guess again because I'm going to embarrass myself. He attempted a career in rap and idolized Vanilla Ice. Yeah. I mean, I did the same thing. Did you? Well, I idolized Vanilla Ice. Yeah. He was everything. I was there. He really only had one song. It was still a great song. Big fucking song. I feel like it was either Vanilla Ice or Nirvana at that time frame and not really too much in between. I was a Vanilla Ice guy. Right. I was more Nirvana if you couldn't guess. Yeah.
Kind of dark and grunge. Yeah. Emo. I still am. Yeah. Very emo. So Paul even forced Kristen to listen to his music. That's the worst crime. While holding her captive. Yeah.
At this point in their disgusting relationship from hell, Paul unsurprisingly turned his violence towards Carla. And this is when the case takes a turn and we're kind of coming to a conclusion here. Because what a dominant predator ultimately wants is complete psychological and in the case of a sexual sadist, physical control. He beat Carla so hard with a flashlight that she wound up in the ER. You can find pictures online. It's not pretty. She had a dislodged eye.
Like literally coming out of her eye socket, totally battered face. And after that, Carla never went back to Paul, but she did file a police report against him. Now it would have been near impossible for Carla to have reported Paul and put him sort of under the microscope without somehow implicating herself. So this girl had a high IQ, but that was a really fucking dumb move.
Over the course of Carla's interview with the police in connection to her DV report, domestic violence report, a DNA sample from Kristen's body showed that it matched the sample connected with the Scarborough rapist.
This was a pretty significant break in the case. And then finally, after two years of sitting in the forensic storage lab, Paul's DNA was finally tested. And of course it came up as a match. Why was he, why was it not tested before then? Just because? You know what? I'm not going to like point fingers, but I think it was just, I'm not going to say negligence on behalf of the lab. Who knows what their staff was like, but yeah, it just went untoward.
for two years. I couldn't tell you why, but I can guess. He did a lot of damage in those two years. Shoddy work. He was very convincing. Nobody fast-tracked it. It was the 90s. Things were different. So investigators knew now that they'd be able to use Carla to nab Paul given the fact that she basically turned on Paul at this point.
Funny how that works, though, right? Like with Carla, you're not a huge fan of your man's violence when it's turned on you, but it's okay when he's directing it towards like an innocent teenager. Yeah. So anyway, they call, the police call Carla back in for a second interview. This is now January 1993. She went willingly thinking that they were just going to talk about like the domestic violence assault. Yeah.
But once they had her in the interrogation room, they connected the dots with her right there. They connected Paul to being Scarborough rapist.
And then, of course, it came to light that both she and Paul were connected to the murders of Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French. Now, Carla claims that she was a forced accomplice in the killings of Leslie and Kristen. She describes herself as a victim and a victimizer. I've watched the police interview. It took place in a hotel room over the course of three days. It was almost intimate. At a hojo? At a Howard Johnson. Then she went to the bar with the investigators. Yeah, yeah.
kidding. During the interview, though, it's really creepy. Carla speaks in this high, almost like childlike voice when she's talking to investigators. And she wore a schoolgirl outfit, which is so perverse because the murders of Leslie and Kristen were dubbed the schoolgirl killings. So this girl is just next level. Yeah. But in any event, they really wanted to get to Paul. So
So they offered a plea deal to Carla in which she pleaded guilty to two counts of manslaughter with only a 12-year sentence to be served on the condition that she testify against Paul. Paul was subsequently arrested at his home for the murders of Leslie and Kristen and for all the rapes connected to the Scarborough rapist. And after a 71-day search of his home, police were unable to locate all of the videotapes that they had kept.
but they found one. And what did they see on this videotape? The sister? They saw an unconscious, incapacitated woman being sexually assaulted, and they saw Carla Homolka performing oral sex on this victim. Who was the victim? Her sister? Yep. Ugh. Yep. Jeez. Was that a quiz that I messed up? No. I couldn't even get that dark. Her sister?
Someone else. Someone else. Nope. Wow. So even though it was clear that Carla was both participant and like almost producer of these snuff films, basically. Yeah. She'd really taken lead in drugging the victims and subsequently killing them. But still, her plea deal was that she only got 12 years in.
So this plea deal is known just around the world as the deal with the devil. And then in May 1995, they made a deal with her. They did. But I guess they needed to get him. But until they came across that videotape, they kind of believed her that she was under his control. Then,
Then they saw that videotape and they were like, whoops. Yeah. She's a manipulator too. Whoops. Right. In May of 1995, Paul took the stand during a four-month trial in which Carla testified against him for 17 straight days. He was eventually convicted of two counts of first-degree murder, kidnapping, forcible confinement, forcing indignity on a human body, and aggravated sexual assault.
And this is the last quiz of the episode. And we're, we're at the end here during his incarceration. Did Paul Bernardo a fine religion and become the prison's lay preacher B start a music group where he encouraged fellow inmates to write and rap about their feelings or C get married to a woman boasting a tattoo on her body that says Paul's girl who maintains that her man is innocent. Um,
I mean, I think he probably tried to get the, you know, people in the prison to rap about their feelings. Nah. Down God? Nope.
Married a girl? This is the tank I know and love. Jesus. What an idiot that girl is. Yeah. He's married right now. He's still alive? Mm-hmm. He's still alive. He's still in prison. He's still in jail. It's unlikely that he's ever going to get paroled. He's been declined many, many, many times over. But Carla, on the flip side, was released in 2005 after serving her 12 years. She moved back to Quebec, got married, and had three children. Yes.
Just live in a normal life. Just live in a normal, even to add insult to injury, she began volunteering at an elementary school. Can you imagine she was, I mean, she's got to be known. I would imagine she's known, but she's never been charged with sexual assault or murder, and she's not on any registry. What was she charged with? Manslaughter. I mean, that's pretty bad, too. It's not great. I wouldn't want her on the PTA. Like, what? No. No.
Yeah, I mean, my kids would not be going over to that house. Jesus, that's insane. So this chick is just out there living her life. Yeah. Like it's all, like none of this ever happened. Correct. That is wild. Yeah. And that's the case of the Ken and Barbie killers.
I mean, Ken and Barbie does not... Now I'm going to think of something different when I think of Ken and Barbie. I'm going to think of choking on vomit and body parts sticking out of cement. I'm afraid so. I'm sorry I've done that to you. I don't really think about Ken. I've corrupted your visions of Barbie and Ken. I don't think about Barbie and Ken that much anyway. But now I don't know if I'm going to be able to see that Ryan Gosling movie. Maybe you should write in with like an alternate ending. Yeah. You know? She winds up in jail. Margot Robbie dies.
And then she ends up being released and got her mom game on. I mean, they're going to be rollerblading into hell in that movie. Yeah. It's rough. She is.
Well, this case sucked. Yep. Thank you for walking me through it. This is probably my least favorite of the cases. Really? Just because it's so gratuitously brutal and horrific. And she's out there, and I don't like that. Right. I don't like that either. Listen, I will say for the record, I also do believe in rehabilitation. I do believe people change. I believe miracles can occur. But...
I like to think that, not for it to actually be a reality. I like to not roll the dice on that type of an issue. Yeah. And I like to keep these people far away from society. I also believe some people are too spiritually or emotionally ill to be in society, and jail is like a quarantine for them. They just need to go away. You're going to hurt too many people. It's not anything against you personally.
So no rehabilitation for those people? It's out of the realm of possibility? It's so hard to tell. I mean, you're talking about really rolling the dice, but with major high stakes. Yeah. Life and death for people. Hopefully she is on some kind of a watch list or something. She's not on a registry. She doesn't technically have to be. I would put myself on it. I'd be like, just fucking give me a police officer 24-7. Yeah.
But that's because I don't want a raven killer. Right. I don't believe that. I would be so embarrassed if I killed somebody. Can you imagine?
What a bad look. What would the neighbors say? No, seriously. Like the fact that she's just out there and she has kids and the kids are like, oh yeah, my mom is so-and-so. And they're like, oh, the one who... No, I never even thought about it like that. Right? From the children's perspective, who their mother is. Yeah. And the husband. You marry her? Who marries her? She's not even pure. No, she's not even a virgin. She's so far from pure. Let's restart this episode. Oh my God.
Well, yeah. I mean, you got me again with this case. Yeah. Well, thanks for sticking it out and to all the listeners for sticking it out. You do make it interesting. I try. And you do a good job with the writing. Thank you. That Winston Churchill reading is really paying off. I'm going to take note of what you like and I'm going to try and keep it going. Malleable...
Whatever you said. I don't remember. I'm impressed you remembered that. Yeah, mal-labeled something. These are great essays. These are real. These are real. I know, I'm kidding. Obviously, if you made this whole thing up, I would run out of here. Don't put it past me, but this one is real. So fast.
Oh, my God. Well, for those of you who are listening, I hope you enjoyed it and were as disturbed as I was listening to this. Let's give Investigator Slater a round of applause. Thank you. Thank you. For her great work. And thanks, Sinatra, for the comic relief when it was needed most. Thank you. I petered out towards the end there because I was just too much. Sorry, you were in it. I love it. It means I'm doing my job. Yeah. And...
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of some sort. This is not a mistake. Overshot it a little bit. We do it on purpose to give you something to listen to, to be interested in, and also to give you a little bit of comic relief along the way because that's what life is all about. True crime and laughs. Amen. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next episode. Thank you. Bye.