Bonus Episode 1: Lorena Bobbitt - Castration Queen
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All right, welcome back to another episode of the Psychopedia Podcast. I am your co-host, Hank Sinatra, here with my co-host... Investigator Slater. Investigator Slater. So listen, everybody, Investigator Slater's sick. I am. But you're not going to know. They might know. Listen to what I sound like. They might know. And I have allergies. I said to somebody today, I was like, man, my allergies are so bad. And he's like, yeah, mine too. It's been, the pollen's crazy.

He's like, what do you get? Like sneezing? I was like, no, I don't. I used to sneeze a lot and get itchy eyes. I just don't know who the fuck I am anymore. It's like a fog, a brain fog. Oh, existential crisis. I'm like Andy from Parks and Rec. Yeah. Staring out the window. Andy, what's wrong? Oh, nothing. I just don't know what anything is anymore. I'm always tired. My back hurts.

Oh, wow. So that's a symptom of allergies. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's bad. Tired, but like not tired. Like you're exhausted, but you know, you lay down and your eyes are like shut, but you're not, your brain's awake. It's hell. But this is the, one of the gifts and joys of living on Long Island or anywhere where there's trees. This is not allergies, what I have. This is a full-blown cold.

So shout out to everyone who's listening. Literally everyone. If you hear this, I'm talking to you. Don't think for one second. He's not talking about me. I'm fucking talking. He is. Oh yeah. You directly. We're just very thrilled with the response and how everyone's responding to the podcast and you know, all you psychos out there just eating this true crime, criminy shit up. And, uh,

It's very invigorating. It is. And we thank you for your support. For your support and for the people who leave reviews. I don't know what it is about reviews. Every podcast I've ever had, I just like am nuts about reviews. I love them. It's intoxicating when people are backing up what you love and giving you that like juice to keep going. Yeah, it's just like another level of, it's like a wink back at you. Right, exactly right. Like we're winking our faces off at you. You can't see it.

And then all of a sudden... Nothing is worse than when you wave at someone and they don't wave back. Yeah. They're waving back when they write a review. And it feels so reassuring and thank you. They're waving back more enthusiastically.

But then it's actually the person behind you that they're waving at. And you have to run in front of a bus. Yikes. Yeah. So one review that I want to read was from QElf. I thought it said CrewElf, but I just almost fell over in my chair as I tried to read that. QElf, five stars, obviously. I've loved true crime for a little bit, but I've never been able to get into a podcast about it until I found this one. Oh, yeah. Yes.

The research and effort put into it by Slater is amazing and so detailed and tanks commentary and jokes are hilarious. Love this show. Love this review. I really like it. So whoever left that, I don't know if you're from the North pole or what is, you know, what's happening with the name QL. It's great. I love it. So listen for today's episode, we,

We have something that I am so interested in and excited to hear about. This is, I think, the first one that I've requested. It is. And you put the pen to paper, so to speak, and made it happen. I aim to please. I don't know if anybody remembers Lorena Bobbitt. All I know about Lorena Bobbitt is that she cut her husband's dick off.

and threw it out the window of her car. That's all that we were told back in the day when this case happened.

You know what? I just realized there was too much going on back then. There was like, but a few go and fucking, you know, there was like a lot of your Harding happens right at the tail end of this case. They were like, Oh, she's got, she cut her husband's dick off. Whatever. I don't know this. We got to talk about it. Simpson was not far behind. OJ Simpson, Mary Jo, but a few go Amy Fisher, right? Um, Long Island Lolita. Oh, I got some stories about her. Really? I'll save it. Like personal stories.

Professional stories. Yeah. And she's an interesting woman. Maybe we'll cover her. Yeah. But for right now, we're doing Lorena Bobbitt, who sliced and diced her husband's junk right off his body. Yes, Hank, but there's so much more to this case than that. That's what I'm excited to find out. Because when we did the Michael Jordan case, I had heard of it. I was familiar with it, but I didn't know anything about it. It's like when you find somebody who explains to you what the hell is going on in the world in like five minutes, it's like...

thank you so much for sifting through all the bullshit and giving me what I need to know. That's how I feel about politics. That's what I, that's exactly what I was thinking. If somebody can give me an elevator pitch about what's going on in the political world. Thank you. Yeah. Cause I can't read it all. No. Nor do I want to. No. Too much. So let's get into this case. You ready? Uh, yes. Let's go. Okay. Lay it on me. Lorena.

At 5.06 a.m. on June 23, 1993, the county police department in Manassas, Virginia, received an urgent call for officers to immediately report to the Prince William Hospital in response to an incident in which a man had been violently assaulted by his wife.

This man entered the hospital holding a blood-soaked sheet against a gaping hole in his crotch and had lost about a third of his blood volume by the time he arrived. Wow. He was in so much pain that he couldn't even provide his name to the hospital staff.

When responding police officer Dan Harris reported to the hospital, he was informed upon arrival that the man's wife had, quote, pulled his dick off and that the appendage was, quote, missing in action. They were like, yeah, okay. A second call was then made to police dispatch, urgently requesting that someone find the missing penis if there was to be any chance of, quote, salvaging this man's dignity.

John Bobbitt is his name, right? That's correct. So just right off the bat, I would have bet my house that this took place on Long Island.

Yes, I would have as well. It didn't, but I can absolutely see where you would think that. I would die on that. Like if I was a betting woman, I would have bet on Long Island. Gun to my head, Long Island or Virginia? Fucking Long Island, 100%. So right off the bat, the fact that this took place in Manassas, Virginia is bizarre to me. I already feel kind of lost.

It's okay. I'm going to walk you through it. I'm going to hold your hand, okay? So to explore this case in depth, right, to do it properly and thoroughly, we'll need to touch upon a vast array of serious and sensitive topics, including domestic violence, rape, psychology, politics, law, and gender divide. The case highlights the disparity in how men and women are treated within the legal system and by the media, an issue which is still of great relevance today.

Those that are too young to remember the particulars of the Bobbitt case, or maybe those who never even heard of this case, may have morbid curiosity about the actual penis dismemberment. And we're going to touch upon that. And also, for people who haven't heard of this case, a woman cut a man's dick off.

At some point in the past. Early 1990s. And it was all over the news, all anybody talked about. And it was a case that was like defined my teenage years. Absolutely. And if you were around during that time, as Tank was, as I was, you may be under the impression that you already know this case.

But trust me when I tell you, you don't. You don't know dick. At least I... Pun intended. Pun is intended. Sorry. I have allergies.

There is much, much more to the Lorena Bobbitt case than just a bitter wife using an eight-inch carving knife to hack off her husband's penis. Eight-inch carving knife to hack off a three-inch penis. Ooh, burned. Burned, John. This is a story of a young immigrant who barely spoke the English language, endured years of domestic abuse and marital rape, had nowhere to go, and finally snapped.

It's a heavy fact pattern and it's one that still resonates today. Wow. Okay. So now I'm already kind of on her side, even though I already like was because I knew the basics. But as an adult now, 42 years old, married, have a good life that I try and make better every day, knowing that she was just back against the wall. Makes sense though, because what kind of person cuts another person's... I guarantee you that at the time, I think you were about 15. 13. 13.

13, you were not on Lorena's side. No. Well, also, I'm a man. Right. And that's absolutely another relevant point to make. Yeah. So let's get into this case. Lorena Bobbitt was born Lorena Lenore Gallo in Bucay, Ecuador in 1969. Dios mio. When she was seven years old, she and her family moved to Caracas, Venezuela and lived a middle-class lifestyle with her father working as a dental technician.

For her quinceañera, which was a celebration of her 15th birthday, Lorena and her family took a trip to the United States. It was then that Lorena knew that she wanted to permanently live in America.

Though her family was unsuccessful in an attempt to emigrate, Lorena obtained a student visa and moved to Virginia in 1987. And she earned money working as both a nanny and a nail salon technician. In 1988, while attending community college, Lorena Gallo was swept off her feet by a Lance Corporal in the U.S. Marines named John Wayne Bobbitt. Oh, that's right. His name was John Wayne. I mean, if your name is John Wayne, you're destined to be on Psychopedia. Yeah.

So the two of them met at a club for enlisted men in Quantico, Virginia. John became Lorena's first boyfriend and her quote, American dreamboat. The pair got married on June 18th, 1989 when Lorena Gallo, now Lorena Bobbitt, was just 20 years old and John Bobbitt was 22.

Lorena reported that shortly after she and John had tied the knot, John became violent and began to physically abuse her. If Lorena ever brought up her husband's spending habits or the fact that he allowed his friends to stay in their apartment with no advance warning, he would punch her in the face and on her body, pull her hair, and choke her. One time when she dared to call him out on the danger of drinking and driving, which

he belted her for opening her mouth. I don't like this guy. No. Within a very short period of time, the situation escalated even further to where John would vaginally and anally rape Lorena, on top of using his fists to silence her.

In the Amazon docuseries called Lorena, it's like a four-part docuseries, very good. She's quoted as saying, as much as I wanted to fight him and say no, it seems like the more he just wanted to do it. Yeah, sick. Sick. Lorena also alleged that John coerced her into having an abortion during their marriage after she became pregnant. She claims he taunted her at the clinic, mocking her about the nature of the procedure and how it would probably end up killing her too.

So just a real class act, this guy. He was in the Army, you said? Marines. Was he like in combat or something? I don't know. I can't actually answer that. I don't know if he was in actual combat. I know he was a Lance Corporal. I know that he was back in Virginia. He was probably a pencil pusher. He was very, very young, so I doubt he saw actual combat.

22 is not that young for combat. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. If they go, it's like early 20s after basic training. You can go at any time after basic training. You can be deployed. So I can't say. I don't know. But it's important to note at this point that John denies all of these accusations and maintains to this day that he never physically or sexually assaulted his wife.

In his version of events, Lorena was the abusive one in their marriage. I could see that too. Now I'm on his side. And that, wow, just changed with the tide. I mean, she did cut his dick off.

So he claims that if he ever did strike her, it was only in the context of protecting himself against her blows. And listen, people are entitled to think what they want. People are entitled to, you don't have to pick a side, number one. But number two, if you do pick a side, you can pick whichever side you want. Yeah. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com slash results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. John has held on to his version of events for many, many years now, decades.

but there are numerous testimonies from witnesses indicating the opposite, like supporting Lorena, which we're going to hear about later on in this episode. Now I'm back on her side. Pop quiz. Oh, no. It's not related specifically to anything discussed so far, but it's another nod in the direction of John being a total douchebag. For those of you who are listening for the first time, Investigator Slater gives me pop quizzes, and they are brutal. Yeah. I really suck at them, and just...

Play along with me. I mean, that's not my fault. I know, it's not your fault. It's a little bit my fault, actually, because the other answers that you can choose from...

are pretty good. Like they could be right. It's like saying you see a question on a test. It's like, what's two plus two? Four, four, or four? Fucking different versions of four. We're hearing it out loud and they're all spelled different. Yeah, but the difference is in my pop quizzes, there really truly is only one right answer. Yeah, I know, I know. But I'm saying like you see the number four, the word four, F-O-R, and then F-O-R-E. It's like, I don't know. They could all be true. Use your brain. I will. I'll try. I do have allergies today.

What name did John Bobbitt use when he signed into the gym to work out? A, Bruce Willis. B, Jean-Claude Van Damme. C, Sylvester Stallone. Or D, Chuck Norris. Oh my God. Four, four, four, or four. Which one? Which one did he use? Sylvester Stallone, Jean-Claude Van Damme, Chuck Norris, or Bruce Willis? Let's go with...

Sylvester Stallone. Wrong. Obviously wrong. Okay, let me work backwards from that. Why don't you pick what you don't think is the right answer? Let's try that technique. Chuck Norris. No, that's also not right. Yeah. Jean-Claude Van Damme. Yes. Third time's a charm. I'll be honest with you.

That was my first instinct because of the time and the energy around that guy at that time. But it's too long to write. Maybe he did like JCVD or something. It just didn't seem likely that he would spend the extra 10 seconds to write all that. He's such a fucking douchebag. Why not? Why not make the person behind him stand in line a little bit longer to sign in while he uses the long name?

I'm going to sign it as John Claude Van Damme, dude. Watch. It's going to be so fucking awesome. 50 times in a row. Yeah.

In 1990, John and Lorena began to experience significant financial stress. Lorena's job at the nail salon became the couple's main source of income, and it wasn't enough to cover the couple's mortgage payments. So Lorena started stealing money from her employer to try to remedy the situation. She also began shoplifting dresses to make herself look better in an effort to prevent John from seeing other women on the side.

But these were fool's errands, as the money she stole wasn't enough to cover their bills, and the dresses she stole weren't enough to prevent John from cheating. Meanwhile, the violence in their relationship continued to escalate. In February 1991, the police were called to the Bobbitt household in response to a domestic disturbance call. John subsequently pleaded guilty to assault and battery, though the charges were dismissed after he agreed to go through counseling.

The police continued to respond to more and more domestic disturbance calls made to the house. But according to John's attorney, many of those calls were made by John in response to Lorena's physical violence towards him. They sound like a bad couple. They are beer and chocolate.

Right? Like, independently, they might be fine. Put them together. No bueno. Beer's gross, though. Even when I drank beer, it was disgusting. Okay. Yeah. Are you a beer person? I'm not. I don't love it. It's not my first choice, but I don't think it's disgusting. Oh.

I actually think that beer, when it's incorporated into cooking, is delicious. Beer-battered fries? Beer brisket that my mother makes on holidays is sensational. Yeah, all right. Well, this guy and Lorena, how long were they married for? Oh, this is within the first year. Oh, yeah. I mean, not going to work.

So it's hard to know whether Lorena was ever abusive towards John, but it's certainly possible. Like, men can and do get abused by women. Sure, yeah. In spite of going to therapy and attempting to work through their tumultuous relationship, Lorena and John separated in October 1991, with Lorena starting on the paperwork needed to obtain a protective order against John.

But a year later, the couple got back together, moved into a new apartment in Manassas, Virginia. And even though they were back together, Lorena never actually stopped the process of obtaining that protective order against her husband, probably indicating that the violence never subdued. Yeah. I also remember learning about restraining orders and orders of protection and protection order back around that time and being like, wow, that's so great. You can like get a piece of paper that says somebody can't come near you. And then I learned that people...

It's just a piece of paper. Yeah, you can't like stand there with it out facing them like, hey, don't come here. We got a piece of paper. Like they're enraged. Imagine if it like shot out like this protective bubble around the person. One day. One day. One day in the future. I look forward to that day, honestly.

On June 23, 1993, John and Lorena decided to end it once and for all by getting divorced. That same night, John went out with his friend, Robert Johnson, to celebrate the end of this terrible marriage and to presumably get wasted while doing so. One second, one question. Sorry to interrupt. Okay.

You said that she got dresses to try and keep him from cheating on her. Was it known already that he was cheating on her? Oh, so it was like she thought the dresses would solve it. She wasn't solving a non-existent problem. She was trying to... That's correct. Okay.

John asserts that that night, the night that they declared they were getting a divorce and he went out with his friend, that he only drank two beers and two very weak shots. Yeah, okay. Indicating that he was not inebriated when he and his friend Robert arrived back at the Bobbitts' home later that night. Upon returning home, Robert made himself comfortable on the couch in the living room while John headed into his bedroom. Lorena was asleep when John climbed into bed beside her and...

Basically, threw on top of her the straw that broke the camel's back. Because according to Lorena, after John got into bed, he proceeded to forcibly press her down onto the mattress while anally raping her. Once John finished, he immediately fell asleep while a devastated Lorena made her way into the kitchen for a glass of water.

And also, real quick, I think it's a lot of women that listen to this. Obviously, you already know this, but for anybody who doesn't, I remember hearing that there was rape that would go on between married people and be like, how could you fucking rape somebody you're married to? We're going to get into that. Obviously, if there's one person who's unwilling, that's rape, brother. Doesn't matter if you're married or not. Fuck yeah, man. Louder for the people in the back. Which leads me to this point. It must be, I don't want to say one is worse than the other,

But I imagine being raped by somebody who you're married to has to be worse than being raped by a stranger, although both are awful. You're supposed to trust this person. They're supposed to protect you and make your life better and easier. And now all of a sudden... So, I mean, I won't pretend to understand what these survivors slash victims go through, but I can imagine that it probably feels almost like a double violation, if you will,

Right? When it's somebody who you've entrusted your life to, your future to, your heart to. Spent so much time with. Right. Would be willing to under the right circumstances, but are not at this time and they just throw it. And have a right to not be. Of course. They throw it to the side. I don't know. That's not...

a world I'm exposed to, thank God. Right, thank God. Now, while Lorena was in the kitchen, she spotted an eight-inch carving knife while she was getting a glass of water decompressing from having just been anally raped by her husband. She took the knife into her hand and brought it into the bedroom where John remained sleeping. Then, in one swift and incredibly precise move, she sliced John's penis clean off his body.

Lorena quickly gathered a few items in her home before rushing out, getting into her car, and driving away. Pop quiz. Which items did Lorena take from her room before fleeing the scene? A. A wedding picture, a .357 Magnum revolver, and John's penis.

B, the knife, a bottle of pills, and John's penis. I thought those were three different choices. Now I'm shot. Okay, okay, go, finish. Or C, the knife, $100, a Game Boy, and John's penis.

Wedding pictures, John's penis. Gun, John's penis. The gun in the wedding picture, John's penis, that's A. Oh, Jesus. Okay. B, the knife, a bottle of pills, and John's penis. Okay. C, the knife, $100, a Game Boy, and John's penis. The last one. Yes, sir. Yeah, Game Boy. Yeah. Need a little distraction when you're driving down the road with your husband's penis in the passenger seat. God.

Or the cup holder. Or her hand, as it were. Yeah. Lorena drove around for 15 minutes before realizing how cumbersome it was to operate a vehicle with a bloody knife in one hand and a severed penis in the other. She was driving like this with the dick and the hand and the knife in her hand? Can you imagine driving past her? Listen, when I try and hold a coffee and drive my car, the coffee winds up all over my shirt.

So she opened up her car window and chucked the genitals outside, where it landed in a grassy field across from a 7-Eleven on Maplewood Drive. Falsy. No pun intended. Pun intended. Actually not, but really, I thought it was like in the woods somewhere. Well, it was a grassy field. It was, no, no, the grass was like thigh high. Oh, okay.

So listen, Lorena, she's traumatized. She throws the penis out the window. But she has the wherewithal and the composure to turn herself into law enforcement and to tell them exactly where they could recover the penis.

Volunteer firefighters immediately dispatched to the grassy fields across from 7-Eleven and began their search through this thigh-high grass. Once the penis was located, the firefighters apparently deliberated for a bit over who was going to be the one to actually pick it up. I'm not fucking touching it. I would, but I'm weird. No, I mean, like, I'm enthralled by everything from start to finish. Like, her walking up to the people and going, hey, I'd like to turn myself in. Oh, man, what'd you do?

Well, as it would have it, I cut my husband's penis off. I will tell you where it is. You what? Wait, wait, start over. Hold on. Ari, come here. Hold on a second. Come here. Listen to this. I think she's fucking around, but listen anyway. And then she's not. And then they have to go look for it and then they find it and then they need to get it. Right. So eventually one of these firefighters-

Drew the short end of the stick, reached down to draw the full end of the penis, and placed it inside which of the following makeshift storage containers? Tank, pop quiz. All right. I think I know this one, but... Did they put the severed penis inside A, a Slurpee cup,

B, a Milk Duds box, or C, a hot dog box? Zero of those is what I thought it was. Oh, shit. I thought it was a Ziploc bag. Where the fuck are they getting, well, I guess, where are they getting any of these items from? Well, 7-Eleven. 7-Eleven, I mean. Hot dog box or a Milk Duds container? Or a Slurpee cup. Yeah. I think they put it inside. It would be really funny.

If they put it inside of a hot dog box. Ding, ding, ding. Really? My man. Are you serious? Yeah, I'm serious. They put it inside an empty Big Bite brand hot dog box.

Donated by the kind employees at the 7-Eleven. Listen, I need to address something. Yeah, go. It's okay to bring some humor, in my opinion. Oh, this is absurd. This is absurd. We are not laughing at the violence. We are not laughing at the injury sustained by John Bobbitt, even though he was a fucking idiot, abusive asshole husband. Yeah. Violence is never funny. Cruelty on this level is never funny.

But firefighters wading through grass to pick up a dick and putting it inside of a hot dog box, I'm sorry, that's funny. That's like something that would happen in There's Something About Mary. Right. Right. And let me tell you one thing while we're on this subject.

When Lorena participated in that four-part docuseries that I mentioned... She was in it? She's in it. It's a great docuseries. I recommend it. The director approached her before filming and before she even agreed to do it, and he said, listen, there is no way to deliver this docuseries without bringing humor into it. There's no way to do it. And you know what she said?

I understand. As long as we shed light on the bigger issues, I'm fine with it. Yeah, comedy is a supporting role in most things. Even when it's the dominating factor, even in like a comedy,

I don't know if you've ever seen American Psycho. Of course I've seen American Psycho. American Psycho is one of the funniest movies ever made. It's not supposed to be. Right. Or it is supposed to be, but someone normal, whatever, who watches it is like, oh, that movie's scary, right? Yeah, I mean, he does chase a sex worker through the stairs with a chainsaw. That's kind of scary, but...

He also obsesses over everything and that's hilarious. He also watches himself in the mirror having sex and flexes. And flexes. That shit is on every single meme. Yeah, it's funny. It's a funny movie. So listen, yes, not funny, but also kind of funny.

So the box, the hot dog box was placed on ice and rushed by ambulance over to the Prince William Hospital where John Bobbitt and urologist Dr. James Sen were anxiously awaiting for its arrival. I bet they were anxiously awaiting. In the docuseries, Dr. Sen mentions that he thought he was going to be performing a perennial urethrostomy. Urethrostomy? Yep, yep. You're better than me.

A perennial urethrostomy? Very good. Wow. I don't know what that is. That could be alien. Well, it's basically a procedure that essentially rearranges the male plumbing system in such a way that would have...

John, quote, sitting like a woman to pee for the rest of his life. They thought he was doing that for fun? No, no, no, no, no. The doctor, Dr. Sen, thought that that was the procedure. He thought the penis was gone. He's like, okay, I'm going to restructure his plumbing system, if you will. So the doctor knew what was happening. He knew the penis is gone. He showed up at the hospital with a gaping hole in his crotch. What he didn't realize was that the penis was going to be recovered.

So when the actual penis showed up in a hot dog box on ice, it threw a monkey wrench into the treatment plan. Dr. Sen was not prepared to handle the apparently very complex and intricate procedure of a penis transplant. So he called plastic surgeon David Berman to assist with the microscopic reattachment of all the tiny, tiny, tiny little blood cells existing in a human penis. Yeah. And this was a difficult job considering the vascular nature of those babies.

After a nine-hour intense surgery, with each doctor taking only one bathroom break each, John Bobbitt's severed penis was successfully reattached to his body. Which is amazing. I don't know a lot about the penis, which is weird because I'm a man. You've got to definitely make a meme out of that. Well, my wife's sister is a nurse, and I remember...

Her telling me, I still, I honestly, I might ask her about it after this because I've been meaning to for five years. Her sister was in medical school and she was like, what happens in a man's body when he's aroused is like,

Like the amount of stress it goes through. I mean, all of the blood drains from everywhere else and just rushes to that one extremity. It's intense. And how does it get there? I'm sure there's little... Blood vessels. Things that, you know... Up the wazoo. Very complicated. It's not like a finger where you just put the bone and, you know, sew the... No, it's an intricate... A penis transplant is a very intricate procedure for the reasons we just discussed. Yeah. Probably a lot more. Yeah. Yeah.

After the surgery, John was warned that there was no guarantee that his peace would stay connected. His peace? You knew that on purpose? Yeah. Yeah.

and or function in any way that he may have grown accustomed to, let's say. Amazingly, however, his genitalia seemed to function just fine after the transplant surgery. And like very quickly after, he was apparently like flirting with the nurses and the candy stripers. And like he was very much ready and raring to go almost immediately. Well, that doesn't mean it worked. It doesn't. Spoiler alert, it did work.

That fucking sucks for her. Because she cut it off, obviously, because she was mad and maybe a little crazy. We're actually going to get into the reasons why she cut it off. Oh, okay. These are the reasons that you have come to learn. Yeah, yeah. Being alive during when this actual case happened and, of course, just anything you've heard in your adult life.

There's so much more to it. But she probably thought, okay, if I cut it off, this is my interpretation of it. If I cut it off, he can't rape me anymore. Right? Correct. And then the doctor's like, actually, we've put it back on and you're in trouble. Well, yeah. How fucking devastated must she have been? So devastated. Yeah. Okay. So we'll get to the real reason she cut it off later. On the other side of the same hospital was Lorena.

who had undergone a sexual assault nurse examination as well as police questioning. While in the hospital, Lorena was charged with malicious wounding, and her trial was set for January 10, 1994.

Naturally, the media descended on this case like fucking starving vultures. Like Michael Scott in the office. Everybody, no panic! Right. Give me a chopper. And the public devoured the risque content. Oh, yeah. No headline was too tasteless, and norms were being challenged left, right, and center.

Vendors set up booths outside the courthouse selling underwear, penis-shaped candy, and $10 t-shirts that said, Love Hurts, and Manasseh, Virginia, a cut above the rest. It was like a bachelorette party. Yeah, it was. And everyone was invited. Yeah. A restaurant in the area offered the Bobbitt Special, which was a hot dog with, quote, cut french fries. Ugh.

Manasseh, an otherwise uneventful town of 30,000, was officially on the map. This case gave license to everyone and their mother, really for the first time, to say the word penis whenever the hell they felt like it, especially on all of the new cable and tabloid television channels. And this was the dawn of the era of court television, by the way.

Oh. So Lorena Bobbitt became a household name, a joke, and a nightmare for men everywhere. Yeah. But Lorena was never discussed in the context of marital sexual abuse. It was always in the context of what she did that one night.

In the topic of Lorena Bobbitt's name being used in every comedy skit, on every front page, etc., pop quiz. Uh-huh. Which artist collaborated in 1999 on a song that included a one-liner about Lorena Bobbitt? A. Green Day and Blink-182. B.

B, Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock. Okay. C, Eminem and Royce Da 5'9". Eminem and Royce Da 5'9"? Yeah. You know it? I kind of know the lyric, but I can't place it. It was a little bit silly for me to even put that in a pop quiz, given who you are. And maybe for those who don't know, Tank is like a rap... Genius. Genius. Fucking genius. Aficionado. You are. You have the lyric? I do. Let's hear it.

Okay, you ready? I'm going to spit it. I'm going to like... Mr. Rogers blocked up my U-Haul screaming. You ain't moving here. Lorena Bobbitt, come here. Want a souvenir? That was so bad. Maybe you should do it. Yeah, that was terrible. Do you see me? I'm definitely not somebody who can spit rhymes. Can I say it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mr. Rogers blocked up my U-Haul screaming. Quote, you ain't moving here. Lorena Bobbitt, come here. Want a souvenir? Yeah. Yeah.

Also, I feel like that's something Eminem would reference because he's incredible. Just like anything from anywhere is fair game for him. I don't know that lyric. I don't even know what song it's from. Well, it's a song called Nuttin' to Do. Nuttin', honey. What are you doing? Nuttin', honey. Ew, go in the fucking... Nut did not mean that back then.

So at this point in the case, it's November 8th, 1993. And John is on trial for marital assault on the night in question, which was different, by the way, from spousal rape. Pop quiz. Why was John Bobbitt charged with marital assault and not rape? A, because

Okay. C. Yes.

Yes. Very good. Very good and very fucking shitty. Backwards ass laws down there. So either the wife had to die or be in critical condition or not live together. You know what they're really saying, right? You cannot rape your wife because she's your property if she's under your roof.

Yeah, that's when like, you know, I think in one of the episodes you said that women were allowed to wear pants in Congress like in 2007 or 2008. That was the Michael Jordan case when we were talking about like the time. So the fact that there was still misogynistic, archaic laws on the books in 1993 does not surprise me, especially no disrespect, Virginia's for lovers, but...

a lot of men in politics who probably haven't taken the time to even consider that fact. You're right.

We're at John's trial, right? The judge told the jury to take into account only occurrences that transpired within the five days leading up to the penis chopping incident, meaning that all of the abuse that Lorena endured and or reported since the start of their marriage was inadmissible. The jury can only consider the five days leading up to the event and the event itself.

John's legal team depicted Lorena as a vengeful, hysterical woman who was bitter about the fact that her husband was an unsatisfactory lover who would orgasm and finish sex before she was done, constantly shortchanging her in the sack

And so she cut off his dick to punish him. God, the 90s were a crazy, crazy time. So you might be wondering, though, like where did the prosecution base their argument from? You know, like where they got this notion that she was pissed that he was like an unsatisfactory lover. Well, they plucked one statement that Lorena made during her initial police statement when she was in the hospital where she said, quote, and this is verbatim,

He have orgasm and not wait for me. Now, Lorena did indeed say those words, but when she gave the statement, she could barely speak English. She was used to relying on John to help her overcome language barriers, and they didn't give her a translator. And she was just anally raped, and she cut her husband's dick off. There was a lot happening, a lot of spinning plates here. What she meant to say...

is that she didn't want to have sex with John, but that he took it from her anyway. Yeah. The prosecution also argued that Lorena severed John's penis in response to his intent to file for divorce, as it would have impeded her chance of getting a green card. And the prosecution was like a one-trick pony with their tactic of presenting Lorena as a spiteful, hot-headed Latina.

That's really the spin that they put on her. But when Lorena got on the sand, she told a very different story. She claimed that what she did that night had nothing to do with revenge, punishment, or spite. Rather, it was about survival. Through tears and a shaky voice, Lorena described the night in question in painful detail for the jury.

She indicated that John pinned her down that night, stifled her screams, tore off her underwear, and sexually assaulted her. With his friend in the other room. Yep. Yeah. Robert Johnson. She actually did something very smart on the stand, I think. And I didn't read this anywhere in my research. This is my own interpretation, but I think it's accurate, and I'm pretty impressed. Lorena said that on the night in question...

the night she chopped off his penis, she asked John, and she said this on the stand, quote, how could you do this to me again and again and again? Which got her point across to the jury, who was not allowed to hear testimony from events preceding the five days leading up to the incident, that he had, in fact, been regularly assaulting her. And why were they not allowed to hear that? Just the judge made a... He wanted them to rule on the event itself and the few days leading up to it.

Because it was just a shitty fucking thing to do. And it's not an accurate depiction of where her mindset was when she did it. No, trauma is cumulative. Absolutely. And trauma takes sometimes years and years and years to surface. And this is why, for example, the work that I do in my professional life, my

My family's law firm is on the front line of the Adult Survivors Act, which in New York is a law that opened up this past November and it will remain open until next November 2023. And it enables adults who were sexually abused at any time

point in their adult life to come forward... In their life at all, not adult life, right? No, adult life. This is the Adult Survivors Act. Okay. If you were sexually assaulted or abused as an adult at any point, regardless of how long ago it happened, you can come forward now to seek justice.

The statute has opened for one year. Typically, there's a limit, right? There's a statute of limitation on when somebody can come forward to make a claim of sexual abuse or assault. New York has opened the window, and I was lobbying for this. I worked with a lot of people who made this law come into action. You're a lobbyist? I am. I was on this.

And the law firm was. And we fought to have this one year open. Why? Because the science of trauma will show you that people can't always come forward in a time that the law considers a reasonable amount of time to come forward. Sometimes it takes longer. Yeah, I don't understand why there's any statute of limitations on any laws.

I think the rationale, honestly, is that they just feel, to me it's archaic, right? I agree with you. But I think the thinking is that people have to be able to move on in life in general and not always, I guess, waiting for the other shoe to drop. You have this window of time to come forward, come forward or don't, but this is your opportunity. Yeah. I don't agree with it. Yeah. Yeah.

John's trial, the prosecution called to the stand the former head of forensics in the FBI to analyze the underwear that Lorena was wearing the night of the alleged assault, as she claimed that John had torn them off her body, right, before he anally raped her. The FBI expert reported that there was a discreet scissors cut in the crotch of the panties, and that from there, somebody tore the fabric. Here's his exact testimony. Quote,

I examined both visual and microscopic examinations of the fabric on the right side. After my initial examination of the panties, I conducted other tests. The fuck did you just say? Panties? Panties. Ugh. I know you hate that word, but it's not my word. It's the FBI expert's words.

I attempted to duplicate the separation of fabric just by tearing, but I was unable to do so. The only way I could duplicate this tear in the panties was by cutting on the bias with a pair of scissors and then tearing it the rest of the way. Unless you were drunk and furious. Exactly. Thank you. Just because you're a little bitch with weak hands doesn't mean that, you know what I mean? 100%. Well, I couldn't tear it, so. If I can't tear it, nobody can. Yeah.

So on November 10th, 1993, after two days of testimony, it took the jury of nine women and three men just four hours to reach a verdict. John Bobbitt was found not guilty of marital sexual assault. Following the verdict, Lorena stayed with friends and she went into sort of depression as she waited for her trial to begin in January on the malicious wounding charges.

During that time, however, John was living a very different life. He was instructed by his attorney to stay out of the spotlight and to essentially go into hiding in Colorado on this cattle ranch. That's not what he did. Nope. I mean, he did that for a little while, but then Johnny Boy could not help himself. Pop quiz.

What did John Wayne Bobbitt do instead of laying low? Porn. Okay. Can I give you some other choices and we'll see? Sure.

A, did he enter a John Bobbitt lookalike contest at a Hooters in Colorado Springs? That might be it too. Exactly. B, serve as a judge on Howard Stern's annual televised Miss New Year's Eve pageant. Oh God, that might be it too. C, meet with the volunteer firefighters who located his severed penis in the grassy field to thank them on television. D,

Or D, all of the above? D. Yes. Yes. Okay. And we're going to get to what you just mentioned, the porn, in just a little while. But we're talking about this immediate time period following his trial. Okay. That year, Howard Stern turned his annual Miss New Year's Eve pageant into a telethon to raise money for John Bobbitt.

There was this giant penis meter with a half-naked woman rubbing up on it. And the penis meter would go up every time a donation was made. $190,000 was raised for John Bobbitt. Wow. And what did he do with that money? Drugs. Nope.

He underwent a penis enlargement procedure. What a fucking moron. Moron that later, by the way. No pun intended. Yeah. So at this point in the case, it's now January 10th, 1994, and Lorena's trial for malicious wounding has begun. Unlike at John's trial, the jury was permitted to hear testimony about the years of abuse she endured at the hands of her husband.

Her defense entered a plea of not guilty and put forth a defense of irresistible impulse, which in the state of Virginia was like a form of insanity. The defense was anchored on the proposition that Lorena had undergone tremendous trauma. And that night, after being raped, she snapped.

Before the trial, the state offered Lorena a plea deal. They said, if you admit to this act that it was premeditated, we'll give you just four months in prison and you won't have to go through the ordeal of a trial. But the thing is, if she accepted that plea deal, she'd be a convicted felon and she wouldn't be able to become an American citizen. So here were her choices. 20 years in prison if she was found guilty, four months in prison and deportation if she accepted the deal.

or potentially complete acquittal if she underwent the trial and won. She opted to undergo a trial.

So TV cameras were allowed in the courtroom for this trial. They were not allowed in the courtroom at John's trial. 60% of the country tuned in to watch the trial. Wow. There was a battle of the sexes in the nation because the majority of men believed that John was the victim, while the majority of women saw Lorena's actions as empowering. And she was sort of becoming the face for all abused women.

For the first time, men began to understand the fear women have experienced for many years. In many ways, Lorena became a symbol of justice for abused and battered women and really all women. But it was difficult to arrive at that point and to present her in that light because there was so little media coverage on that aspect of the case.

Jurors heard testimony indicating that police had been called at least half a dozen times to the Bobbitt household in response to domestic disturbance calls. There were assault and battery charges against John, medical reports reflecting physical injuries on Lorena, such as cuts and contusions, as well as firsthand testimony of people who witnessed the violence. Friends said they saw bruises on Lorena's face, body, and neck.

Rug burns on her arms, bumps on her head, bruises up and down the length of her back and on her shoulders and hips. A co-worker of Lorena testified that she saw John violently jerk Lorena at a bar one night after he saw another man looking at her. He grabbed her by her hair, he punched her, he smacked her. In the bar? Yes. All in public viewing. Yeah. Yeah.

A neighbor testified that she would hear fighting coming from the Bobbitt apartment. She would hear running, she would hear banging, and she would hear Lorena, quote, hollering. And that Lorena even told her one time that her husband had just raped her. The neighbor gave John some pamphlets regarding rape and domestic abuse because she too was a survivor.

Witness after witness testified to the physical and emotional abuse they saw firsthand directed at Lorena by John. John's own friends testified in court that John would brag about, quote, making girls squirm, yell, bleed, and yell for help. And that he, quote, liked to have sex that was forced because it turned him on.

What is that paraphilia? Rapist? Rape. Okay. Is that like a thing that turns people on? It's a thing that turns John Wayne Bobbitt on. Idiot. When John took the stand, he denied everything. Even though at one point in the recent past, he entered a guilty plea of assault and battery charges. But whatever. Yeah.

The defense did a great job cross-examining John and getting him to contradict himself all the time on the stand. And of course, he took the stand because he's so fucking arrogant. Also, who the fuck was his attorney? You never let the person take the stand. But his performance was shitty. And he seemed confused. He was mumbling. He constantly shook his head like he was trying to clear his thoughts. It was really a very bad performance.

And the tide in the public and in the media began to turn at this point. Now, when John Bobbitt exited the courthouse, rather than having people selling t-shirts and wanting his autograph and penis-shaped candy and da-da-da-da-da, he was being booed at. He was being yelled at. And Lorena was starting to be looked upon as the victim that she was. And the hero. Right.

But the main question that needed to be answered by the end of the trial was whether or not Lorena Bobbitt's abuse caused her to go temporarily insane when she cut off her husband's penis. That is, whether she was so psychologically unwell that she knew what she was doing when she was doing it, but she was incapable of stopping the impulse to do it.

And when the trial concluded, the jury, after deliberating for six hours, found Lorena Lenore Bobbitt not guilty by reason of temporary insanity. While she was found to be criminally not responsible, she was still mandated by Virginia law to be sent to Central State Hospital for mental health evaluation. She was released after 45 days because it was determined that she wasn't a danger to herself or to anyone else.

It was believed that Lorena suffered from PTSD as well as battered woman syndrome. Now... Wait, they're different? They're different. Battered woman syndrome, or BWS, is a psychological trauma that results from ongoing physical, psychological, and or sexual abuse, typically at the hands of an intimate partner. This syndrome is one of a group of conditions known as intimate partner violence, or IPV.

And it can lead to symptoms of PTSD, depression, anxiety, and even physical health problems. BWS can also result in the development of quote survival personality in which the person acts out of fear and attempts to avoid further harm. And this was Lorena's position. When she cut off John's penis, she said it was for survival. Gotcha. To avoid further harm.

So let's take a quick look at the cultural impact of this case. Huge. In 1993, when this case happened, studies showed that male partners were responsible for 4 million assaults on women each year. Over 2,000 women were killed in 1993. By their partners. By their partners.

There was no national hotline for victim of domestic abuse. There was no federal funding for shelters. Police often had no recourse but to treat domestic disturbance calls as quarrels. Then, in 1994, the Violence Against Women Act was created. In 1995, the U.S. government awarded $46 million in grants to help combat domestic violence against women. The tide changed.

And while Lorena brought national attention to the epidemic of violence against women and was helping to change the way this issue was viewed by the rest of the free world, no small task, John Wayne Bobbitt was bouncing in and out of jail for battery charges against other women while desperately, pathetically attempting to restore his personal brand and spot in the public eye.

Pop quiz. Which of the following ventures did John not pursue? Oh boy, not pursue. Okay. And there's a lot. There's five. So A, did he not become a knife thrower in a circus act? Okay. Did he not become a men's right activist? Okay. Did he not become a porn star? Know that one. Did he not become a greeter at the bunny ranch in Vegas? No.

Did he not become an ordained minister? So he only not did one of those? Yeah. Knife thrower in a circus act. Men's rights activist. Men's rights activist, porn star, porn participant, porn loser. And what was the fourth one? Becoming a greeter at the Bunny Ranch, the Moonlight Bunny Ranch in Vegas, and becoming an ordained minister. He did not become...

a knife thrower. No, I'm afraid he did become a knife thrower in a circus act. Anything for money, huh? He was desperate. He did not become an ordained minister. He, in fact, did become an ordained minister and he married people in Las Vegas.

Is this guy still going, by the way? He's alive. I wouldn't say he's going. He's not crushing it anymore. He's not crushing it. I'll tell you in a minute. I know he did porn, so it's only two choices left. Just tell me. He did not become a men's right activist. Oh, my God. Obviously. But I thought maybe...

He did become a greener at the Moonlight Bunny Ranch in Las Vegas. He was a celebrity greeter. And apparently he would whip his dick out constantly. You want to see my mangled dick? And he wasn't good at anything. He couldn't bartend. He couldn't do anything. Yeah. If you watch the docuseries, you hear some of the sex workers from that time at the ranch being like, yeah, he was just in the way. Yeah, sure. Yeah.

By the way, the porn film that he starred in was the fourth biggest grossing adult film in the industry. Really? Yeah. But he didn't make any money off of it, P.S., because he got swindled by the producer. Oh, good. Fuck him. That guy sucks. And as I mentioned earlier in this episode, he also underwent penis extension surgery, had the procedure filmed, and then went on to make another porno titled Frankenpenis.

And why was it named Franken-penis, you ask? Because during the penis enlargement procedure, his member got botched, leaving him completely disfigured down there. Oh my God, this guy just fucking can't stop. It was said to resemble a dented Red Bull can. With bolts on it? I don't know about the bolts. Frankenstein? That's weird. But it wasn't pretty. This guy just couldn't stop. I mean, he's just, something is...

Obviously very wrong with this guy. He's unwell. On a lot of levels. He's unwell. So where are they now? Nearly three decades later.

Well, Lorena ended up going to college, meeting a new man named David Bellinger, marrying David Bellinger, and having a daughter. David Bellend. What's that? Bellend is like a British slang for penis. Oh, is it? Yeah. Nice. I like how you did that. I had no idea what you meant. David Bellender? Yeah.

Oh, my God. She's currently working as a hairdresser in a salon, but she volunteers at shelters for victims of domestic violence and also runs the Lorena Gallo Foundation, which works with abused women and children. Good for her. So she is crushing it. You know, I've actually wanted to go volunteer at women's shelters. I can help that happen. Am I allowed to do it? Absolutely. Aren't I like the picture of the problem, though? Oh, come on. No, I'm being dead serious. No.

I'll tell you a story. I, when Louis CK, the whole thing happened, right?

This was like maybe a year and a half, two years after it all came out. You maybe want to tell everyone what the whole thing was in case people don't know. Yeah. He masturbated in front of two young comedians. It was a very fucking weird thing. Cause like they were there, he told them he was going to do it or he asked him if they could do it. And they were like laughing. And then like 20 years later they came out and said that he sexually assaulted them. It's a very strange situation. Um,

Obviously, it's weird. I don't know. Whatever. But two years after it all came out, there was a girl outside the Comedy Cellar with a Fuck Louis C.K. sign in her hand. And it was like a 12 by 12 piece of paper. It wasn't like... She didn't put a lot of effort into it, right? Okay. So I'm at the Comedy Cellar and I'm with Adam, right? And I go, I'm going to go talk to that girl. I want to like...

whatever's bothering her, right? And he goes, no, don't do that. And I was like, no, I'm just going to go like, see if I can help in any way. You know what I mean? He's like, bro, don't go talk to her. I was already walking over to her by the time he said it. So I walk over, I'm like, hey, I know obviously you're upset. Is there, do you want to talk about it? She was like, please, sir, back up away from me, please. I don't know. I don't want to do this.

And then I took a step towards her and she was like, sir, you're making me very uncomfortable. And I was like, okay, okay, geez. So I walk away and Adam's laughing. He goes, how'd that go? How did you think it was going to go? I thought I was the survivor whisperer or whatever. But you're not. I know. That's why. No, you're.

please. So he goes, bro, you're the fucking picture of everything that torments this girl in the world. Listen, it's all about context. I know, but I just, I don't know. That's why I'm thinking that I thought so many times even before that, because like it really disturbs me.

that anybody, male, female, but it's obviously more female than men that are abused, are taken advantage of emotionally, physically, whatever, by their partners that they may have kids with and the kids have to witness it. Maybe the kids are getting abused. It's like, dude, I just want to go be there for them, but I don't know if I'm allowed. A time and a place, my friend. Outside of the comedy cellar. Not the time or the place. You want to come with investigators later in a safe place and volunteer and be the great person that you really are.

we can make that happen. Yeah. And also maybe hide your enormous muscles just in case. Yeah, maybe I'll wear like a bunny suit or something. Wow, this is like the second or maybe third episode where you in a bunny suit has come up. Really? Yeah, really. You talked about how you dressed up as an Easter bunny in our last episode and the kids were scared of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want to scare anybody. But, you know, bunnies are supposed to be cool and cute, but not when they're fucking jacked.

Your mistake. Ever seen a jacked Easter bunny? Kids don't want to talk to you.

So John has tried to maintain contact all of these years with Lorena. Really? He continues sending her love letters, often referring to himself as her cold-blooded, insensitive husband. He's been married twice more since Lorena, but he's presently single. Shocking. And he's living off disability checks from the government following a car accident in 2014 when he injured his neck.

He also spends his time digging for hidden treasures in the Rockies. Can't make it up, man. Good use of your time, bro. Can't make it up. So I would like to end this case on a quote from Lorena from the four-part Amazon docuseries, which, by the way, is titled Lorena.

And she's talking about how John continues to keep in touch with her, basically harasses her and will not leave her alone. And she just looks up at the camera and she goes, quote, I cut your penis off. It's like, just leave me alone. Yeah. And that's all she ever wanted. Yeah. I mean, that sends a message for sure. You would think to a sane person, I don't think she wants to be with me.

All she ever wanted. Yeah. That's what the, you know, dismemberment was about. What a saga. Yeah. So much deeper probably than what you recall. Oh, I don't remember there being two trials at all. I'm sure you only remember what was in the headlines, which was crazy woman hacks off her husband's penis. Yeah, that's it. And that she threw it out the window and like vague, vague details about the case. Definitely not. I didn't know that the abuse was ongoing or,

I don't even know. I don't even think I knew there was abuse. I just knew that he was like cheating on her or something. Right. She was presented as a disgruntled, bitter wife with a cheating husband. I'm going to show him. I'm going to castrate him. But...

It was not that. It just wasn't. And I know he had his penis reattached. I didn't know he had an enlargement surgery. He's actually had it since then. And another one. It's smaller. Oh, really? Because he claims that like women thought it was too big. Yeah. What a fucking idiot. Yeah. This guy sounds like a moron. I'm glad he's nowhere doing nothing.

So that was very interesting. Thanks for, you know, painting a very vivid picture of the reality of the Lorena Baba case that I did not know. I like learning about stuff that I know about, but I don't know about. There's nothing better to me than like having a vague idea of something and then having the gaps filled in. Right. That's my job. I really enjoy that. As investigator Slater, to fill in your gaps. Thanks for doing that. I hope that the listeners enjoyed it.

I'd like to hear from the listeners on this one. Same. Not in particular, just, you know, in general, we have an email to email psychopediapod at gmail. You can DM us on Instagram. You can write a review as long as it's five stars and it praises both of us because we will self-destruct.

There was a one-star review. I forgot what it said, but I thought it was good. I thought it was a good review. I know you did. I was crying in the corner and you were celebrating. I just want to make people feel something. That's it. So if you feel something listening to this, interest, fascination, whatever, I don't want to say joy, but like, you know, this is a silly case. So don't feel... It's silly, but it's not. It's not. I know. That's life though.

Life is serious and then it's not. And then it isn't, but it's not also. It's like everything is dead serious and then everything, nothing matters. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. So, fuck Jon Bobbitt and thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. Bye, everyone. Bye.