Phil Spector and the death of Lana Clarkson | 17
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At 5:02 on the morning of February 3rd, 2003, a chauffeur named Adriano D'Souza made a frantic 911 call. 9-1-1, what are you reporting? Hi, my name is Adriano. I think my boss killed somebody. Now why do you believe he may have killed somebody? Because he has a lady on the floor and he has a gun in his hand.

Within minutes, two officers pulled up to a 33-room mansion at 1700 Grand Avenue in Alhambra, east of Los Angeles. It was a large home, known as the "Pyrenees Castle" or "The Castle" for short, because of its many turrets. They walked up the 88 stairs to the front door. Looking through the windows, they saw a man with straggly hair pacing back and forth. The door was open, so they pushed it. The man came to meet the officers, speaking weirdly and not making a lot of sense.

He did say, "Hey, you gotta come in and see this." Inside was a blonde woman slouched in a chair. The man continued to babble and gets so agitated that he gets tasered, but he doesn't go down. Cops have to wrestle him to the floor. With the man finally under control, one of the cops checks on the woman. There's a small revolver lying on the floor next to her. There's an open drawer on a nearby table with an empty holster. And on the floor, what looks like to be a bunch of teeth.

The woman, whose name turns out to be Lana Clarkson, was dead. The crazy man on the floor was the famous producer Phil Spector. Had he shot Lana? Or was it, as he would claim, a suicide? This was the beginning of one of the most spectacular and weirdest music business murder trials in history. I'm Alan Cross, and this is Uncharted, crime and mayhem in the music industry. Wow, do I have a story for you.

Phil Spector was one of the most successful record producers and songwriters of the 1960s and 70s. He was a boy genius, a millionaire many times over by the time he was just 21. He was the first to use the recording studio as an instrument unto itself. He called his recording style the wall of sound, music that was densely layered and jumped out of AM radio speakers like nothing else.

His favorite collection of studio musicians, basically his house band, became known as the Wrecking Crew and are considered to be the best the music business has ever known. Spector was responsible for hit records for girl groups like the Crystals and the Ronettes, creating some of the most iconic pop songs of the era.

He produced other massive records for the Righteous Brothers and Ike and Tina Turner. He later finished up the Let It Be album for the Beatles, produced Imagine for John Lennon, and a couple of projects for George Harrison. And towards the end of the 1970s, he guided the Ramones through their End of the Century album. Overall, he was behind 18 top 10 singles, one of very few producers who had number one records in the 1960s, the 70s, and the 1980s.

Spector was an early inductee into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He's a member of the Songwriters Hall of Fame, nominee and winner of Grammy Awards. Characters and movies have been based on him. So how did someone so successful and so respected end up being convicted for the murder of a B-movie actress? This is the story of how and why Phil Spector killed Lana Clarkson.

Spector was born in the Bronx in 1939. In the 1950s, his mother moved the family to L.A. Without finishing high school, Spector was the co-founder of a band called the Teddy Bears, which they named after an Elvis Presley song. Spector wrote this for them when he was a 17-year-old senior in high school. He based it on the inscription on his father's tombstone, which read, To have known him was to have loved him.

George Spector had been deep in debt and had committed suicide in 1949 when Phil was about 10. The song was released in August 1958 as a B-side, but DJs in the northern U.S., especially Fargo and Minneapolis, started playing it instead of the A-side, and the track blew up. All I know is to love, love me Just to see him smile Makes my life worth what you know

By December 1958, "To Know Him Is To Love Him" was the number one song in America, selling nearly two million copies. The success of the song attracted the attention of a record producer named Stan Ross, who began mentoring Spector on the art of record production, which was a very new thing at the time. This led to an apprenticeship with the famous songwriting team of Jerry Lieber and Mike Stoller in New York.

That's where Spector co-wrote this top ten hit for Ben E. King in 1960. Spector was just 20. There is a rose in Spanish Harlem A red rose up in Spanish Harlem It is a special one Through the first few years of the 1960s, Spector found freelance work as a songwriter and producer.

Then he started creating studio groups that became vehicles for his songs. His first success came with a group called The Crystals. Then came Bob B. Sox and the Blue Jeans. After that was the Ronettes, who scored with this song, featuring Ronnie Bennett on vocals. She would later marry Phil and become famous as Ronnie Spector. Be my baby, my one Be my baby, my one

When the Ronettes performed in San Francisco in September 1963, a couple of singers named Bill Medley and Bobby Hatfield came to Spector's attention. He loved them so much that he bought their contract and started recording hit singles with them. The Righteous Brothers became huge thanks to songs like this. You're trying hard not to show it You've all got a world that loves

By the time that song hit number one, Phil Spector had devised a recording technique that he called the wall of sound. It was so unusual and so unique that some just called it the Spector sound. Spector used large groups of musicians in big studio rooms. To thicken up certain sounds, he'd have different instruments playing the same parts. By carefully mixing those instruments together, a new sound was created.

He'd do this multiple times on the same song. There might be four or five guitars, two or three basses, a grand piano, an electric piano, and a harpsichord. And the result was something that sounded big. Unlike other pop recordings of the era, Spector would use orchestral instruments like strings, woodwinds, and brass. This was in addition to the standard guitar, bass, and drum parts provided by his regular collection of musicians known as the Wrecking Crew.

They became legendary on their own for their chops and versatility and would eventually appear on thousands of recordings over the coming decades. Spector used a lot of reverb and echo to make things sound and feel even bigger, often using not one but two echo chambers. Spector added layer after layer after layer to his songs. And this was all done with nothing more than three- and four-track Ampex tape machines. Excessive? Well, to some critics, yes.

But one thing was undeniable. Songs with Spector's wall of sound production boomed out of mono AM radios and jukeboxes like nothing else. Spector believes that this recording, credited to Ike and Tina Turner, was the best wall of sound production ever. Listen carefully, and you can hear how complicated a mono recording can be. Yeah, I feel my body.

By 1967, Phil Spector, a couple of years short of his 30th birthday, was one of the most famous and successful music producers in the world. And then he disappeared. He already had a reputation as being eccentric and a recluse. His specialty was making singles, but albums had begun to dominate the recording industry. And that just wasn't his thing. He married Ronnie from the Ronettes, and outside of a few cameo appearances for TV and movies, he largely withdrew from show business.

That hiatus lasted for about three years. In 1970, Alan Klein, the new manager for the Beatles, asked him to add some extra production to the Let It Be album, which Klein believed was too spare and sparse. All those strings on the long and winding road? That was Spectre. Paul McCartney, who wrote the song, was furious, even though that song became a number one single.

John Lennon and George Harrison were big Spector fans. Spector worked on Harrison's All Things Must Pass album, which reached number one on the charts, thanks to songs like this. Tell me what is my life, love Tell me about you

After working with Harrison, Spector moved to John Lennon, producing the Imagine album, Happy Christmas War Is Over, and this song, which was written, recorded, and released in just 10 days. After his work with Lennon, Spector withdrew again. There was his production and co-writing of a 1977 album entitled Death of a Ladies' Man by Leonard Cohen, and from what we know about them, the sessions were difficult.

And then came the Ramones. Working with Spectre sort of made sense for a couple of reasons. First, at the heart of the Ramones' punk sound was 1960s-style pop songs played loud and fast. A lot of their inspiration came from Spectre productions from back in the day. Second, after several albums that became highly influential but didn't sell very well—they were nothing more than cult hits—

The Ramones record company felt that a guy like Spector could help them make an album that would be their mainstream breakthrough. He could bring more "pop" to their material. A budget of $200,000 was agreed to, which was exponentially more than all the previous Ramones albums put together. And the band was given six months to finish the project. A lot, given that the Ramones were used to finishing an album in a couple of weeks.

The resulting album was called End of the Century, and the stories about its making are legendary. Spector was absolutely obsessive. Marky Ramone says he'd sit in the studio hitting the snare over and over and over again while Spector was in the control room listening on headphones. Johnny had to play his guitar parts from the song Rock and Roll High School literally hundreds of times. That included this opening chord. Now, imagine...

sitting in the studio, being ordered to play this over and over and over and over and over again. There were also guns all over the place. Both Johnny and Dee Dee Ramone recounted that the band was held hostage by a pistol-waving specter in his mansion for hours on end. Things were so confused that when it comes to the finished album, no one really knows who played on what songs.

Once that project was over, Spector once again disappeared. And when he showed up again, it wouldn't be as an eccentric record producer. It would be as a murderer. Phil Spector was weird. And through the 70s, he got even weirder. Ronnie Spector had many awful things to say about their marriage. She says she was subjected to horrible psychological abuse. He wouldn't let her perform. She was kept in the mansion, surrounded by barbed wire and patrolled by guard dogs.

He even took away all her shoes just so she couldn't escape. When Ronnie was allowed to leave the house, she had to have a life-sized Phil Spector dummy in the passenger seat. There was a gold coffin with a glass top in the basement. "If you ever leave me, I'll kill you and put your corpse in that coffin," she was told. Ronnie started going to AA meetings just to get away from Spector for a few hours at a time.

In 1972, she had had enough and ran out of the mansion barefoot and with no belongings. I quote, I knew that if I didn't leave, I was going to die there. Guns were pulled plenty of times, and it was only through her mother's help that she was able to escape. In the divorce settlement in 1974, Ronnie said that she had to forfeit all future royalties, otherwise Spector would send a hitman after her.

All she got was $25,000, a used car, and a stipend of $2,500 a month for five years. Meanwhile, Spector continued to work. He loved what he did with the Beatles in the early '70s, but he also became more hermit-like. He had started drinking even more heavily. As the divorce proceeded with Ronnie, he ended up in Los Angeles with John Lennon during his "Lost Weekend" phase. Things deteriorated fast. More alcohol, more drugs.

And then on March 31st, 1974, Spector was in a terrible car crash. He wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was catapulted through the windshield. At first, it looked like he was dead. But because a cop on the scene detected a faint pulse, he was rushed to the hospital just in time and underwent several hours of surgery. He had more than 300 stitches to his face and another 400 to the back of his head.

There were many, many scars. And this is probably why he started to wear big wigs. There was also psychic damage, as you would expect from a near-death experience. It's suggested by some that Spector began to realize that his time as a producer for youth-oriented pop music had come to an end. He was getting older. His fame was disappearing.

Spector's personality and mood changed further. His substance abuse increased. He became more impulsive. There were mood swings that included sudden and severe bouts of rage. His ego and arrogance, already insanely big, grew bigger. And his reputation for misogyny increased. Abandonment issues got worse. His father's suicide, the death of his friend Lenny Bruce, his divorce, the assassination of John Lennon, his fall from grace with the music industry...

And there was evidence of mental illness, specifically bipolar disorder. There was a bizarre moment at his induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame when he showed up on stage surrounded by three big bodyguards and said something incoherent about George Bush's presidential inauguration. But then came February 3rd, 2003.

On the evening of February 2nd, Spector called Adriano D'Souza to drive him around the city. D'Souza, a student from Brazil, wasn't his regular chauffeur. That night, he was a stand-in, and he had no idea what he was in for. D'Souza took Spector to a few different places in his S430 Mercedes limo, including Trader Vic's and Dantana's among them. He went for dinner, finishing up at somewhere between 9.30 and 10 p.m.

The entire time, Spector was drinking very heavily. Plenty of rum and 150-proof tequila. So, he was a little drunk. Spector met with at least two people on this tour, including time at a bar with a woman named Kathy Sullivan. They went to another bar and then to the House of Blues on Sunset Boulevard. And that's where he ran into 40-year-old Lana Clarkson. Clarkson was a B-level movie actress from Long Beach. She was a natural blonde beauty, standing 5'11".

In the past, she had a minor role in Fast Times at Ridgemont High. If you know where to look, you can see her dancing behind Michelle Pfeiffer in the scene in Scarface. There were also roles in some fantasy films, a couple of comedies, and a few sci-fi movies. There were TV jobs with Night Court, Three's Company, Knight Rider, Love Boat, Charlie's Angels, and a few others. And between gigs, she appeared at comic book conventions and in TV commercials for Mercedes-Benz, Nike, and Anheuser-Busch.

But when she reached her 30s, the acting and modeling gigs ended. Clarkson set up a website that offered one-on-one interactions with fans. Totally clean, by the way. She had dreams of doing stand-up. And she was working on a project called Lana Unleashed that she hoped would rekindle her showbiz career. But things were tight. And by early 2003, she had no choice to take a job as a hostess at the House of Blues in West Hollywood. She was working the night Phil Spector dropped in.

Spector was seated in a VIP area. Clarkson was told to treat him like gold because he was so famous. Spector was wearing a big weird wig that night, and at first, Lana was confused. She thought the person in the VIP section was actually a woman. But then Spector pulled out the don't you know who I am thing on her. Management was called in to sort things out, and then Clarkson did what she was told. Kathy Sullivan, the woman with Spector, wasn't drinking, which annoyed him, so he had D'Souza drive her home.

While he was waiting for the limo to return, he started hitting on his waitress. And then he also struck up a conversation with Clarkson. He seemed to like her and invited her back to the castle. Lana was hesitant at first but was eventually convinced. But then, within two hours, she was dead. When the limo pulled up to the mansion's front door, D'Souza was told to wait. He then drove the car around to the back door to await further instructions. Spector and Clarkson went inside.

About an hour later, D'Souza heard a single gunshot. That's when Spector burst out of the back door of the house and said, I think I killed someone. In his bloody hand was a Colt Cobra .38 caliber six-shot revolver. When he asked Spector what happened, he just shrugged. D'Souza went to the door and saw Clarkson slumped in a fake Louis XIV chair near the back door. Spector vanished somewhere into the house, still holding the gun. D'Souza freaked out.

His first call was to Michelle Blaine, Spector's secretary. She didn't answer, so he left a voicemail saying that "I think he killed some… a lady. Please call me." He then drove the limo down to the front gates of the property and called the cops. He told the 911 operator that Spector still had a gun and was afraid that he might be the next one to get shot. Police arrived within minutes.

Detective Richard Tomlin and his partner were on the scene shortly after that. But by this time, this is at around 6 in the morning of February 3rd, the media was already there, and there were news helicopters circling overhead. A sensational Hollywood scandal had begun. Tomlin and his partner found Clarkson in that chair with some of her teeth littering the floor. Her leg stretched out in front of her. She had a severe gunshot wound to the face.

There were no signs of a struggle. Her purse was still over her right shoulder, which was a bit strange. There wasn't a lot of blood. And there was a small revolver by her right foot. On the table next to the chair was a bottle of tequila and a couple of glasses. It appeared that someone had had quite a few drinks. Spector is located in the house. He tells the cop that Clarkson had committed suicide, claiming that she was depressed and had come to his house with the intention of killing herself.

According to Spector, she found the gun in a side table near the door. And when he returned to the room, Clarkson was sobbing, babbling incoherently and pointing the gun at her face. And then she pulled the trigger. Spector says he saw it all happen from across the foyer. Regardless of his version of the events, Spector became a suspect in the murder of Lana Clarkson. And the ordeal had just begun.

Let's revisit Phil Spector's story of what happened in the early morning hours of February 3rd, 2003. He posited a theory that Lana Clarkson wanted to die in a spectacular way so this B-movie actress would be remembered forever. Killing yourself in the home of a famous celebrity and you're guaranteed a place in history. The coroner's report was clear. She died of a single gunshot wound to the head and neck, an intraoral wound.

The bullet went right through her spinal cord. The toxicology report found that her blood contained a mixture of alcohol and opiates, Vicodin to be specific. And here's the thing. Although Spector was in the house with this dead body, there was nothing to directly connect him to the crime. Maybe Lana Clarkson really did commit suicide. And while Spector was charged, it was up to the DA to make a case. And we all know what celebrity crime cases are like in Los Angeles, right?

One of the first things investigators had to do was dig into Clarkson's background. Was there something in her background that would have motivated her to take her own life in such a spectacular way? Here's what they learned. Clarkson hadn't worked for a while because she'd broken both her wrists in an accident, requiring the need for casts on both hands. The Vicodin was for the pain. Her recovery stalled any hope of a career comeback, something that was made more difficult by the fact that she was 40 years old.

She was under tremendous stress and may have been depressed, very depressed. This pointed to maybe collaborating Spector's claim that she shot herself. She kissed the gun, to use his words, and that it went off accidentally. The combination of her depression, the drugs, and the alcohol simply pushed her over the edge.

Okay, fine. But most people who take their own life will do it privately. Attractive people, especially models and actors, rarely want to disfigure themselves when they die. If they are going to do it, it'll be with pills or some other drug. Leave a good-looking corpse, you know? When investigators combed through Clarkson's website and other things that she left behind, there was nothing negative. Zero indication that she was thinking of harming herself. She'd even begun preparing her taxes.

She seemed to be excited and enthusiastic about things that were coming down the road. Next stop for the investigation was the House of Blues, the music venue where Spector met and picked up Clarkson. She'd just started working there and was in training as a maitre d'. One of her duties was to look after the Foundation Room, the private area for celebrities. Clarkson loved the gig because it allowed her to network and maybe make some new connections. Phil Spector was just the kind of people she was looking to schmooze.

Around 1.45 a.m. on February 3rd, Spector showed up just before closing time. Like I mentioned earlier, Clarkson had no idea who he was other than he was just another VIP who needed to be treated well. Remember, because he was wearing a wig, she thought that Spector was a woman. She even referred to him as Miss Spector.

Okay, that misunderstanding was smoothed over by management, and Clarkson, mortified by her mistake, tried to smooth things over even more with Spector in the 30 minutes before the club closed. Last call came and went, and Spector was cut off from alcohol. He left at around 2.20 a.m. Surveillance footage later shows Spector waiting for Clarkson outside the club. When she leaves work, D'Souza and the limo are there.

Clarkson really wanted to go home because she was tired. Spector said, oh, come on, one drink, half an hour. My driver will wait for you and then take you home. Clarkson is invited into the car and they drove off at around 2.30 that morning. They'd known each other no more than 45 minutes. Let's go back to the crime scene. Lana Clarkson was right-handed. The gun was found on the floor on her left side. Forensics says that sort of thing is unusual for a suicide of this nature.

And why was her purse still draped over her right shoulder? Again, she was sitting in a chair less than six feet from the door. It looked like that she may have been trying to leave when everything went wrong. Looking at the body, there was a blood smudge on her face, something inconsistent with the way Clarkson was shot in the mouth. It looked like someone had tried to wipe her face. There's more.

It did look like there was some kind of sexual contact because Spector's DNA was found on Clarkson's breast. There was a mixture of both their DNA on a glass, which may have resulted when they kissed. What about the gun? Well, it held six bullets and it was still loaded with five. It did have Clarkson's DNA on it because, after all, it was inside her mouth. That is not in dispute.

And yet, there were no fingerprints on the gun. Not Clarkson's, not Spector's. That was strange. There was no gunshot residue on Spector's hand, but there was such residue on Clarkson's hand. There was no question that this was the gun used in Clarkson's death. However, there was also clear evidence that the gun had been wiped. Further investigation found blood on the back of Clarkson's wrist in a mist-like pattern. Could that mean that she had been holding the gun?

A search of the house revealed something known as a diaper in the bathroom. It was in the trash can. This was a special cloth used to clean guns. This diaper was covered in blood. And there was blood residue in the toilet too. Other details of Spector's life turned up. There were the four women who claimed that he pulled a gun on them when they turned down his advances. He drank a lot and may have taken a lot of recreational drugs.

There was the 1974 car accident that resulted in a traumatic brain injury. Even volatile before that, but such an injury could make those problems worse. For example, some neurologists see patients snap from mood to mood within seconds. That's a symptom of some types of brain injury. There's the history of mental illness in Spector's family. Not only did his father commit suicide, but he had a sister who was mentally ill.

Spector himself took psychotropic drugs and was in therapy for a long time. He was pathologically jealous, and he claimed to have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Even his children described him as a, quote, monstrous father. And at 5'4", did he suffer from serious insecurities about his height? Spector was also obsessed with guns. He owned a lot of them and tended to carry one wherever he went. He loved to show them off and threaten people, too.

there were at least a dozen incidents where he pulled a gun on people. Even someone like one of the valet parking attendants at the Beverly Hills Hotel in broad daylight in front of a ton of witnesses. The valet's crime was making Spector wait too long for his Rolls Royce to arrive. Then we go back to Ronnie Spector and all her allegations that Spector had held her hostage under threats of severe physical violence before she was able to escape barefoot in 1972.

And then there were Spector's penchant of pulling guns to control women, especially when they wanted to leave and he did not want them to. That, again, was a recurring and documented pattern of behavior. He either pulled a revolver or a 12-gauge shotgun. When all the forensics came back, the blood in the bathroom belonged to Lana Clarkson.

The white jacket that Spector had been wearing when he picked up Lana Clarkson at the House of Blues had blood spatter on it. And that blood was from Lana Clarkson. There was blood in the left-hand pocket of that jacket. That blood was also from Lana Clarkson. If she indeed shot herself, how did her blood get on his jacket, in his pocket, and in the bathroom, and in the toilet? Especially since he claims to have been so far away when she pulled the trigger. A theory began to form.

Did Clarkson want things to slow down or stop when it came to her interaction with Spector that night? Did she try to leave? It had been more than two hours and she really did want to go home because she was so tired. Then did Spector fly into a rage when he couldn't control the situation? Did he grab the gun from the drawer, stick it in her mouth and pull the trigger? And even though he perhaps didn't mean to pull the trigger, it may have gone off accidentally as he was shoving it around inside Clarkson's mouth.

The more investigators sifted through the evidence, the more they became convinced that's exactly what happened. Seven months after the death of Lana Clarkson, Phil Spector was charged with her murder. However, he remained free on $1 million bail. She died on February 3rd, 2003. The trial, the first trial, didn't begin until March 19th, 2007.

The entire time, Spector was uncooperative and seemed to revel in the spotlight, demanding all kinds of star treatment. He refused to cooperate and kept making weird, veiled threats. A man who lived like a hermit suddenly had a lot to say to the media, insisting again and again that Clarkson's death was a suicide. Although the evidence against Spector was very strong, this, however, was a Hollywood celebrity murder case. Nothing ever goes smoothly when we're dealing with one of those.

It was a media circus. The trial was televised. When Spector's attorneys told him to tone down his comments during the inevitably unhinged press conferences, he fired them. He went through three sets of lawyers, including Robert Shapiro, who defended O.J. Simpson. The defense team that survived painted Lana Clarkson as a washed-up, depressed, frustrated, and desperate former actress who literally wanted to go out with a bang.

The prosecution stuck to the evidence, the science, and the forensics. And a big part of their presentation was Adriana D'Souza, Spector's driver on the night Lana Clarkson died. When D'Souza heard the gunshot, he ran to the door and was face-to-face with Spector. And again, he had the gun in his hand and he said, I think I killed someone. Done deal, right? Not in Hollywood.

The defense introduced doubt, saying that a forensic expert hid crucial evidence. For example, some of the flecks of blood on Spector's white coat couldn't have been impact splatter. The blood on the grip of the pistol? Inconsistent with what you'd expect if Spector had fired the gun. And there was no evidence of any struggle. She was younger, stronger, healthier, and at 5'11", much taller than Spector. The defense maintained she could have easily overpowered him.

They also brought up the possibility that Clarkson was depressed, suffered from chronic migraines, and had severe financial problems. And that was enough. The jury was hung 10 to 2 in favor of a conviction. The judge had no choice but to declare a mistrial on September 26, 2007. And that meant everything had to start again. The second trial began on October 20, 2008. Judge Larry Fidler was on the bench again, and this time the trial was not televised.

After months of testimony, the same evidence in even greater detail, the case went to the jury on March 26, 2009. A crucial new fact was revealed. Lana was found to have a bruise on her tongue, indicating that something very hard had been forcefully jammed into her mouth, like maybe the barrel of a revolver?

It took the jury 19 days to deliver a verdict. Guilty of second-degree murder, plus guilty of using a firearm in the commission of a crime. And on May 29, 2009, Phil Spector was sentenced to a minimum of 19 years in prison. There were several attempts at an appeal. All were denied. There was a plea to the Supreme Court. Denied. Another appeal. And another. And another. All denied. Meanwhile, Spector languished in jail.

And then, on January 16th, 2021, he died of complications of COVID while in a prison hospital. He was three years short of parole, and the entire time, he maintained that he was innocent. So, that's the end of the story, right?

Well, no. In 2023, two years after Spector's death, his daughter Nicole began a campaign to clear her father's name, saying that her father was easy prey for prosecutors, and all the forensic evidence presented at his trial made it completely clear that he could not have possibly pulled the trigger. But as far as the justice system is concerned, Phil Spector murdered Lana Clarkson.

You can catch up on all episodes of Uncharted by downloading them from your favorite podcast platform. Please rate and review if you get a chance. If you have any questions or comments, shoot me an email, alan at alancross.ca. We can also meet up on all the social media sites along with my website, ajournalofmusicalthings.com, which is updated with music news and recommendations every day. And there's the free daily newsletter you should get. And please check out my other podcast, The Ongoing History of New Music. There are hundreds of episodes that you can enjoy for free.

Technical production for Uncharted is by Rob Johnston. I'm Alan Cross.