64. Best of: Techniques for Managing Your Reputation
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Hello there, I'm Matt Abrahams. To keep up with the learning this summer, we're diving back into some of our most popular episodes. Think of this as summer school. As part of our summer learning series, we'll be reintroducing an episode and pairing it with an assignment for you to complete. Fasten your seatbelts and sharpen your pencils. I always define a reputation as the echo that precedes you into a room and the echo that remains after you leave.

Alison Kluger's quote has stuck with me for a long time. I'm Matt Abrahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast.

Thanks for joining us for part two of our summer learning series. In part one, we revisited an episode all about storytelling and humor. We heard from many of you on our LinkedIn page about your homework, the jokes that you learn from your life experience. For this episode, we're going to talk all about reputation. I'm joined by Jenny Luna, our executive producer. So Jenny, tell me, what do you think about reputation?

Well, Matt, I hear people say all the time, "What others think of you is none of your business," or that I shouldn't care what others think. So I struggle a little bit with the whole reputation thing. I hear you. We're so often told that we shouldn't care what people think. But I'm not so sure I agree with that. How you present yourself and how other people perceive you is a critical element for your success at work and in life.

In one of the very first interviews we did on this podcast, I spoke with Allison Kluger, a lecturer in strategic communication here at Stanford GSB. Allison focuses on how to manage reputation, how to tell your story and establish your brand. Jenny, can you share with our listeners what our homework assignment is for this episode? Yeah. Yeah.

So something that really stuck with me from the reputation episode is when Allison mentions the book Reputation Rules by Daniel Dermer. She talks about Daniel's trust radar. Let's play a quick clip about that from the episode. So what this trust radar says is that there are four elements that are really important to create trust with people and to either repair your reputation or make sure your reputation stays positive.

And the four axes are really expertise, empathy, commitment, and transparency. Okay, so here's your homework assignment, listeners. I want you to draw your own trust radar. Draw a quadrant with an X and Y axis. Put the following words in the four quadrants, expertise, empathy, commitment, and transparency.

Now think of an aspect at home or at work where you are a leader and rank yourself along the axis in which areas are you strongest and in which areas you can improve. We are super excited to see your radar.

Please share your findings on LinkedIn. We love drawings. Yeah, snap a photo of your quadrant and upload it to the post on our LinkedIn page about this best of episode. We so look forward to your responses. Now enjoy this episode, Communicating Our Multiple Selves, How to Manage Your Reputation.

I'm thrilled to have my colleague and fellow GSB lecturer, Alison Kluger, here with me to help better explain what actions we can take to communicate the reputation we want others to see us having.

Alison has an amazing background. She served as a producer for many TV and radio shows, including Good Morning America and The View, and she is an expert on digital media. At the GSB, she teaches strategic communication as well as reputation management, strategies for successful communicators. Alison, I can't tell you how thrilled I am to have you here today. We worked hard to make this happen, and I'm excited to have our conversation.

I'd like to start by asking three background questions for you. First, how do you define reputation? Why should we worry about it? And how do others come to learn about our reputations? Matt, I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so much. Those are great questions to start with. I always define a reputation as the echo that precedes you into a room and the echo that remains after you leave.

And a great reputation is really like currency. So if it can do the work for you before you even enter the room, you're on the winning side. So if someone says, oh, my God, you have to meet Matt. He is so thorough. He is so good at scheduling interviews. Nobody is saying that, Allison, but all right. He always makes you feel so good about yourself. By the time you show up, people are already predisposed to want to like you and to listen to you.

So the other end of the echo when you leave is kind of the murmurs, right? Oh, my God, that was a really great presentation, or he was so funny, or she was so intense. Whatever it is, it's what are they going to murmur when you leave the room? Now, you might say, well, how do you know? It comes back to you. Someone might say, um...

My friend saw you at this speech that you gave, and I really want to get together to talk about business. Or, oh, your reputation precedes you. I heard that you really know how to deliver a great presentation. It does come back. And then right in the moment, someone might say, can I have your business card? Can we have lunch? Can we have coffee? Can I introduce you to someone? So that's the first part about your question. Right. I'm curious to know, really...

How do we work to actually build up that echo? What are some of the specific things we can do when it comes to managing our reputation? Is there something around mindset that we need to think about? I really believe it's about awareness. And the good news is you can change your reputation. It's a very fluid process. And there are times in our career and our life where

where we have to reevaluate who we are and what we're delivering to the world. You know, when you introduced me, you really hit the nail on the head because the question about reputation is, is what we're putting out there being perceived the way we intend?

If there's not a matchup, then you're kind of in trouble. But what you can do is to be very conscious. It's kind of like what I say for my online digital class, which is be a conscientious content creator. Well, you have to be conscious of how you enter a room. You have to be conscious of first impressions. You have to be conscious of how present you are when you're discussing things with somebody. Do they feel that you're distracted and looking over their shoulder to see if someone better is coming in the room? Right.

And you also have to be consistent and show up as who you are time and time again. So that way, even on your online reputation, like if you're posting very kind of wacky things that aren't consistent, people won't really get a sense of you and people are so quick to judge or create a fixed bias or a negative bias. The way you can avoid that is to let people know what you stand for continuously, kind of curate your values.

So it sounds like people need to be very mindful and thoughtful about what they want others to think and perceive of them and really sit down and think about in a detailed way, here's how I want people to see me or here's what I stand for. And then once that's done, what do you recommend people do? How do you then articulate that? Do you create some kind of

catchphrase? Do you find certain causes to support? How does one demonstrate those values and themes that they've identified? It's a great question, Matt. I always worry about saying like, what do you really do? Because you want to be as authentically you as possible. Sure. And I do find that your reputation is defined by others. So I know how I want to be.

But if I'm not realizing that people are getting it that way, I want to be someone who's kind and open-minded and not judgmental and a really hard worker.

And so the way I will know that I'm doing that is if I'm at work and I get a review and they say, you know, you're doing this right. Or if friends say, you're like such a great friend because I can tell you anything. So it's kind of like how do you live your life? And again, that word consistency is really important. If you need to create a new reputation, then I think you need to be more mindful. Like let's say you're someone who's always late.

Why did you look at me when you said that? I did not. Okay. It's a small thing, but then you really have to, you know, the buzz is like, oh, my God, you know, we have to call the meeting 10 minutes earlier every time because she's always late. You know, how do you change that kind of reputation? You set your alarm and you get there 10 minutes early every time. So you do have to be very strategic sometimes. But for the really natural qualities that you have, I think you'll be hearing it through work and friends. Yeah.

and responses to whatever you're putting out there. Right.

I know that two key concepts that you focus on in your class, and we've talked about this in lots of situations, are this notion of trust and the balance between warmth and competence. Can you tell us more about these ideas? You've mentioned consistency. I'm really curious about trust and warmth and competence. Yes. Trust is a really big area in reputation, and we use a book called Reputation Rules by Diermeier. And he has something that's called the Trust Radar.

And I love to use this. In fact, it's impossible for me to read the news and not bring in the trust radar when something is happening, some sort of reputation crisis. So what this trust radar says is that there are four elements that are really important to create trust with people and to either repair your reputation or make sure your reputation stays positive. And the four axes are really expertise, empathy, commitment, and transparency.

I'm sure you've heard of this. I'm sure a lot of business students have heard of the Tylenol episode way back in the 1980s, I think. Yeah, tainted Tylenol. The tainted, ooh, I love the alliteration. Yeah.

The tampered, tainted Tylenol. That's terrific. Someone was putting cyanide in some Tylenol caplets and there were deaths. And the company, Tylenol's company, they could have just said, it's a serial killer. It's not our fault. But they did the absolute opposite. They took every bottle off the shelves. They said, your safety is the most important thing.

return anything you have, we'll pay you back your money. And then they made it, instead of like a moment of disaster, they made it a moment of triumph where they developed new tamper-free packaging.

So what they showed was, first of all, they were very transparent. They said, you know, we don't know what's going on, but we're going to protect you. They were very committed. They put their top CEO to come and give the message out. The expertise was in developing new packaging, and they were committed to solving this problem. So on the trust radar, they're hitting everything. Sometimes you see someone who doesn't respond as well to an emergency. They're kind of like no comment, no comment. That's already breaking the number one rule of trust.

Just frustrates people. So trust is a really big issue because if I come to you and I'm expecting something and you don't deliver it, I'm going to just reevaluate you in the moment. And then the warmth and competence, that plays into reputation but also plays into executive presence, which I believe that if you're all data and you're all kind of

But without any warmth to balance it, you can come off as arrogant or know-it-all or a little poindexter, as we used to say that when we were younger. And that's not a really great way to be, and also very dry. If you're all warmth, then people think, oh, that person's really fluffy. They have no substance. So I really believe the superpower is to match warmth and competence because people want to like you.

People want to trust you. And the more likable you are, the more amiable, the more you're kind of aware of how you're coming off to people, the more people will respond to you in a positive way. So as we now more and more are struggling with managing reputations, not just in the physical world, but in the virtual world as well with our presence and all these social media tools, I look at my clients.

teenage children and I see how many different instances of themselves there are. We were so lucky growing up. We only had to be who we were in front of people. We really were and that was hard enough. It was hard. And so I'm curious, do you have any last bits of advice or guidance that you provide? I do. You know, I try to teach this to my kids. We have kids similar ages. The first thing I say is it's not what happens. It's how you choose to deal with it because things are going to happen, but it's

It's kind of like it can be the worst moment of your life or it can be a moment where you triumph, like I said, or you turn it around or you accept it or you do something of value.

So don't let what happens define you. Let how you choose to deal with it define you. So I end each one of these with three questions. And I'd love for you, I've been dying to hear your answers to these three questions. So before we end, let me ask the first here. If you were to capture the best communication advice you've ever received as a five to seven word presentation slide title,

What would that be? I would say be comfortable with being uncomfortable. There's no way we're all going to be happy and comfortable 24 hours a day. And to have that expectation is really selling yourself short. So my second question, and this I'm also really fascinated to hear your answer on it. Who is a communicator that you admire and why? You have had such a variety of people you've interacted with. I'm curious to know, who do you admire? Well, can I give two?

For you, Allison, too. Nobody else but for you. Thank you so much. Well, my first choice is Tyra Banks, who I teach a course with, because she is someone who is very underestimated. She started as a supermodel. She's a brilliant businesswoman. She's a marketing genius. But what I really love about her and what I've learned about her in the last kind of three and a half years of working with her is

is that she's very real and she really has values that she stands up for and it kind of covers everything, whatever she's talking to you. She's not afraid to be vulnerable. She's not afraid to uncover the warts that are beneath someone who has a standard of beauty. And she's also very free in sharing her struggles and how you storytell is really important as a communicator. So that's the real life thing. And then the other person who I just admire so much is Michelle Obama. When I heard her speech yesterday,

When she was campaigning for Hillary, I think I got chills. I don't think I've ever seen a better communicated presentation in my entire life. That's saying something, too. It is. She's warm. She's real. She's strong. She's funny. She's uncompromising. And she's inclusive. Yeah.

And she's not at all fabricated. Like it comes from her heart and her soul. And you don't, you really feel her spirit. And to me, a great communicator is someone who's authentically themselves and not afraid to show it and aware of their audience and aware of, you know, how they want to change the world.

Both of those women are phenomenal communicators, and I think they represent very well the concepts you've talked about in terms of building trust, being authentic, warm, and also competent. So my final question for you is, what are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

Well, you're going to laugh because this is something you teach, but I truly believe it. It's aim. It's audience, intent, and message. I don't care whether you're going to be in a one-on-one meeting or a presentation or a job interview or wooing somebody. You need to know your audience. Right.

You have to understand where they're coming from, and it's really putting yourself in someone else's shoes initially. And then what is the intent of this communication you're having with them? Do you want to entertain? Do you want to inform? Do you want to convince, persuade, fundraise? Whatever it is, if you're not certain on your intent, your message will be confusing. And then finally, how do you message?

Messaging clearly and succinctly and repeating your message and having it as a strong opening and a strong closing so that's the last thing they remember.

So aim, audience, intent, and message. Your aim has clearly hit the target today, Allison. I've thoroughly enjoyed speaking with you. Your reputation preceded you and you've only confirmed it. And I love this notion of reputation being the echo that comes before and after. And I hope our conversation today will echo for everybody who's listened. It certainly will echo for me. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Matt.

Thanks again for listening to our second Summer Learning Series episode. Allison shares so many useful tips and tricks to help us manage our reputation. Now it's your turn. We look forward to seeing your homework assignment posted to our LinkedIn page. Thanks and happy learning.

This has been another episode of our Think Fast, Talk Smart summer learning series. Please check out all three episodes in this series. Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast, is a production of Stanford Graduate School of Business. This episode was produced by Podium Podcast Company, Jenny Luna, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Find more resources, follow and join our conversation on LinkedIn by searching Think Fast, Talk Smart. And please download and follow wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to drop us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

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