We Got Skills with Antwon Tanner • EP110
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Drama, drama queens, drama queens. Episode 10, you gotta go there to come back. You gotta go there to come back. You can't come back from nowhere. Air date January 20th, 2004.

Big ideas, man. In this episode, Lucas and Peyton try and redefine their friendship after Lucas chooses to be with her best friend, Brooke. Oof. It was a firm choice, guys. The beginning of the episode was so rough when he basically just lays out like, she's got too much baggage. Man. Wow. Wow.

Which is ironic, I don't know, because Brooke's clearly got a lot of stuff going on, too. I mean, I don't know. It's maybe not as obvious, but... Well, that's it. Let's talk about that. Because I think we've addressed the fact that, like, Brooke and Peyton are friends because they have similar baggage. Absentee parents, you know. They both are trying to prove themselves in different ways. But Brooke...

is on the outside, like, fun and bubbly and is hiding her baggage, whereas Peyton's like, I'm going to wear this like a cloak. Mm-hmm. A velvet cloak of doom. Yeah. Well, Brooke has... There's such a veneer to her, I think, because everything that she's been...

and this was sort of the way I had to think about it anyway, was that the way she'd been raised was to appear great. Like everything looks perfect. We pretend our family's perfect, even though the parents are fighting and obviously eventually get divorced and, you know, all these things. And so Brooke is like, all her validation comes from the outside, you know, being the captain of the cheer squad, being a person who's,

called popular, you know, whatever. She is popular, honey. You should own that. Okay. But Peyton has outlets that are hers. Like you, you played a character who was an artist who was really into music. Like Peyton had an identity in a way that like,

At least from the outside, you know, when I think about how it felt to play these girls then, it felt like Brooke just didn't. You know, Brooke was always trying to prove herself. And Peyton had, like, this world that was hers that was so cool. Oh, my God. All the angst. I feel like the angst done correctly in this is the Nathan Haley arc in this. You know, you guys wake up.

You're freaking adorable. Just so cute with morning breath. We did have fun with the morning breath. No regard. No reserve. But all the TV shows do that because you're on set and when you have to kiss, everyone's polite. So you eat an Altoid.

And when you see it, you're like, but if they just woke up, they would smell like demons. And on no show does anyone ever get up and brush their teeth before they kiss the person they're in bed with. Right. No, do you guys remember like waking up in the morning when you first started like sleeping over at somebody's house? I would wake up like an hour early and go put on mascara and brush my teeth and like sort things out so that it seemed like I was waking up tidy. Yeah.

Did you ever Tammy Faye of you? Very Tammy Faye Baker. I'm Southern. That is some Virginia business. I'm like Southern lady eleganza. You gotta just set your alarm, get it done. I did not. What was your experience shooting that stuff? Um, I'm trying to remember that. I think that was one of those where I, I looked at it and I was like, I don't really have a memory of being there. Um,

I mean, I remember a little bit of being in Karen's cafe and stuff, but that stuff with James in my room, I just don't remember a lot of the set of Haley's room. But I don't know. It's funny watching back and feeling like they have such a mini adult. She's just such a mini adult. I can't get over it now. She's so mature with her mature kisses and her mature way of handling situations and everything. You didn't headbutt him like I did? Stunk. Stunk.

You just missed. No, you kissed him so softly, Joy. I'm still jealous. Those are my soap opera kisses. That was my soap experience coming in.

Do they give you a kissing class in soap opera school? Like, is there a... I didn't have one. Like a crash course? No, my crash course was that I was 17 and there was a guy who came in to play my love interest and he was just a lot older than me and I just kind of learned fast. Wow. Wow.

Or learned very slow. He did. Yeah, he really, yeah. He taught me how to kiss, really. And not so many. I mean, you know, it's not like, listen, do this. But there is a sort of, you do learn a little bit about where to put your chin, where the girl's chin goes, the guy's chin, you know, you sort of like gauge, start gauging where the camera is and what looks attractive. If you shove your faces up against each other, everybody gets a double chin. You know, you want to try and make it look like,

It's like a French without the tongue, so you don't want to see a lot of tongue unless it's that kind of a show, which ours wasn't really. So, yeah, you just, like, make all the same motions as a French kiss but without the tongue, which is also polite because, you know, you don't want to just shove your tongue down somebody's throat. I mean, if you're going to kiss with tongue, it's usually talked about beforehand with the director. Everything's sort of sorted out. I had more than one surprise. Did you? Tongue slip on this show. What? What?

Guys, they they over the years, there were people Brooke Davis had to kiss and there were some you already know somebody bit me. I will never tell you who the Internet was speculating about it. And I'm not. You guys have no idea. They don't know. They don't know. But oh, man, I actually saw some really hilarious guesses, which made me feel bad. I was like, oh, no, do you think that guy's like that? How sad. No, he's adorable.

But yeah, it's it is it is a shock when someone just does that. I love, though, you talking about the technicality of this, Joy, because there is a question that as an actor you get so often, which is like, well, what was this like or this scene? And it's like, actually, the the stuff we make look really romantic and sexy on camera is the least sexy.

because it's so technical. You got to like get your face and then they're like, okay, turn your head one inch and you're like this way. They're like, no, the other way. Okay, raise your chin. Okay, that's exactly where we need you to to kiss. And it's so choreographed and then it has to look natural, but it's the most unnatural thing. So awkward. Oh God, it's so awkward, you guys. Yeah, that's why I liked working with my husband because they were like make out and it was like, I don't have to follow anyone. I can just do what I want.

It's so awesome. This is going to be great. I highly recommend it. Well, speaking of James, this was great stuff for Nathan in this episode. He finally let Dan have it.

I've been waiting for that. A couple people did. Deb, too. Yeah. I mean, the whole episode kicks off with him trying to love bomb her, which is... Yuck. The flowers. I got us the reservation. Would you explain love bombing for anyone that doesn't know really what that is? So...

Certain personality types that are prone to bad behavior become very skilled at countering that bad behavior with over-the-top affection. So they could tell you the night before that, like, you're a whore and I hate your face. And then the next day they show up with a hotel reservation and flowers and

And you are expected to understand that they were going through something and they really do love you. And so love bombing is like a big red flag. We've talked about red flags here before. Yeah. It's a narcissistic tool, too, because that's how they get you to, they devalue you. Friends can do it. Lovers can do it. Totally. Co-workers can do it. Yeah, parents. Yeah.

Yeah. And so they build you up with the love bombing. So they make you feel this euphoric, like, oh my God, everything's amazing. I'm amazing. They love me. They see me at this beautiful way. It's all going to be great. And then they put you on the pedestal and then they can rip the pedestal out from underneath you. You come crashing down. You feel horrible about yourself. You feel confused and lost in everything in the relationship. And then they come back with the flowers in the hotel again and build you back up. And it's a really sick cycle. Yeah.

And it's always an excuse of, I'm so sorry, it's my damage or it's my emotions or it's because of what happened to me with my mom. Like whatever the excuse is. It could also just be, I forgive you. I forgive you for being a mess. So they're punishing you for being normal. And, you know, and they could also, it doesn't always have to be, I'm sorry. It can be like, I forgive you. Come on, let's make it better. You overreacted to what I said or what I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's fun watching Deb in this moment because I have to imagine the love bombing was sexy at the beginning of their relationship. It's been a constant thing where they have this kind of, you know, she's not in town all the time. So the hellos and the goodbyes are probably like fun and flirty. But in this episode where she puts a boundary up and does not accept the love bombing, she

And then tells him you need to go to therapy. Like that's a big move in a relationship. Yeah. She's not putting up with it. I will say, you know, we're all speaking about this topic from experience. And I think, you know, I know for me, at least in my younger years,

being in relationships that had that kind of volatility that bordered on abusive behavior, I didn't know what was happening. We trade books and we talk about narcissism and we're like, have you listened to this podcast? We've got resources now. And at that time, we really didn't. And it was hard to understand the toxicity of that kind of behavior because

of those types of courtships. And I think watching this now, I'm like, oh man, Deb set such a good example. And this was in 2003, you guys. Like she was saying, you know,

Yeah, putting her foot down, talking about therapy. Like now we're talking about mental health all the time. But for a woman to stand up to a man who who is volatile and scary like Dan Scott was and say, you're going to go to therapy or you're not going to see your kid. Like now as a person who goes to therapy, I'm like, yeah, girl, get it. Yeah. And she wasn't shouting. It was like totally just I'm setting my boundary. Here's what's going on. So great. So super healthy.

Can we move on to this arc of Luke, this bad, I keep calling him bad, bad Lucas now, like bad Sandy. It's like he's really exploring this side of being a part of a community that is not the one that he's used to. Kind of being suddenly fitting in with all the people that he was an outcast from for so long. And it's kind of having a weird effect on him.

Well, it's weird. So when people talk about like the popular crowd, right? Everything that we knew from John Hughes movies was bad behavior. You know, like we watch like Pretty in Pink.

And Blaine and all the rich kids, they're all just like awful. And then you watch 16 Candles and all the rich kids, they're just like awful. And so our generation specifically kind of grew up watching those movies where it's like, oh, that's what popular people are like. And so now that Lucas has been accepted into this world...

you know, like having a girl over into your room and rolling around and buying condoms out at the grocery store. What? I mean, at least go to a gas station where no one is. I went to the local organic co-op to buy condoms. Tidal Creek.

Sassiest place. I need my organic coconut oil and my little chicks and condoms. My face is turning so red. As soon as we were in that grocery store, I pulled my sweatshirt up around my face because I was like, oh no, oh no, oh no, I know what the scene is. Because I was so embarrassed then and I realized that as an adult human, it is silly that I'm still mortified. I'm still mortified by that scene. Of course, as a high schooler.

It's terrifying. I don't know. I'd be in...

I don't need people to see me buying condoms now. You know, it's just not like a thing I want anyone else to witness. And why are they always locked up behind the plastic case? But like where the guy has to go get them. You're when you're at the checkout, let people steal those by the by. You know what I mean? Just let it, just give them away for free. Let's just give them away. It was so uncomfortable to do the scene. And like the secondhand embarrassment that I had having to do it.

And now that I feel it's like, I remember exactly how I felt and I'm just still mortified. And I think like we we've hit this weird point with, um,

where like we were saying there's such good scenes and then the writers always make me, her, end a scene with like a really gross one-liner. Where you're just like, oh man, come on. Like no girl is going to say that. And why do we keep having to do it? And there's like four of them in this episode. Like, yeah, I'm just going to take the Polaroid. Like, cool. Let's joke about kids doing porn. Brooke and Peyton were having such a moment. Like they were just having so much fun.

Just talking about feelings and like, baby, you good? I'm good. You're my best friend. You're my best friend. Let's take naked pictures. You know, like, oh, come on. But it's like, I don't know, man. You guys said something that I loved where because clearly I was dying. I was on the inside of my shirt. And you were like, well, at least we were promoting safe sex. I was like, yeah, that's yep. There's a silver lining in my shirt. Yeah.

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Listen, I wouldn't sell yourself short, but it is helpful to know that if you could do it starting from scratch, then maybe there's hope for me when I finally decide to build my own website. I can't wait.

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Peyton was feeling a lot of feelings in this episode. How, how, okay. A, how realistic is it that she would be? I mean, you talked a little bit about this in a previous podcast that we had about your high school best friend. They wanted to trade or something. They wanted to trade. So apparently is not that crazy, but does this whole, did this scenario watching this back, does this feel realistic to you?

I'll tell you. So I have sense memory of filming this episode because I personally was in a very weird space filming this episode. I had come onto the show.

shot the pilot, got engaged, uh, after we shot the pilot. And so when we came back to start shooting the show, I was engaged. And while we were shooting this episode, I had broken that off and was living by myself in the apartment across the street from Karen's cafe. That's right. Doing the exact same thing Peyton was doing. Peyton's so needy for Haley's attention in this episode. It's like, please hang out with me. Please hang out with me. Please hang out with me. I,

I would go and fill my fridge with so much alcohol and food so that the crew would come over after work because I was just like, so I'm so broken right now. Like someone please hang out with me. Everything's weird. This job is very different than what I thought it was going to be. You know, like I was a mess. And so that's what I'm seeing in this episode.

What I'm also seeing is that this was the episode where I PA'd because I wanted to be... What is a PA for anybody that doesn't know? Okay, so a PA is a production assistant and they work... The AD department, the assistant director department, is kind of the nervous system of the show. And so they are the ones that transmit information to all the different departments all day long. Okay.

And it's a very high stress department. Yeah, you easily can get a chip on your shoulder while you're working in that department because basically you're managing everybody else's bullshit all day long. And the AD department is...

runs all of the scheduling. They're the people who set the call times, you know, when it's like, you're going to get picked up at 512 AM. That's because that's calculated because it's exactly 18 minutes from the person's house to the set. And then they're going to get in hair and makeup. And then they have this long and that it's, it's so many moving parts and they're timed to the minute. So those are the people that are always trying to make sure we're staying on schedule and, and,

And the PA is, you know, this team of production assistants. They're all the people on sets with walkie talkies and earpieces. And they're helping make sure everyone is where they need to be. They're locking up traffic. They're, they're giving cues to the background. They're, they're, they're really like, you know, running all the strings of the puppet that is the show. And I remember that day because we were doing that scene at title Creek and I just wanted to die. And we came outside and I,

I lost it, Hill, because you were locking up traffic in the parking lot. And the first time I walked out of Tidal Creek with Chad, we started doing the scene and I locked eyes with you. And I don't know if you remember this, but I just started laughing. And I was like, we got to start over. I can't. I just can't. Guys, it was art imitating life because the reason I PA'd was that I'd asked the AD department if my brother could come down and be a PA. He was at school in New York.

He was miserable. I was alone. I was just like, I just need a blankie. I need like a, my little brother will work. And they were like, we're not going to hire him. And I was like, no, I swear to you, the Burton work ethic is like, you know, be like, Burton's will outwork anybody. Please hire my brother. I'll work for free as a PA if you'll just give him a chance. So I,

I had like bartered this deal with the AD department. So I'm locking up traffic and here I see Lucas and Brooke, you know, Sophia and Chad like working and having fun and like doing all this stuff. And I'm on the outside with a walkie talkie getting screamed at by this woman. That's like, get out of my neighborhood. You know, like it was, I very much felt like an outsider. Um, I, um,

I was struggling so hard. And yeah, so me being like, Joy, Haley, will you hang out with me, please? Somebody please just hang out with me. That was all real. It really came through. I mean, that's one of the things I love about acting is that we can use our emotions. You can use whatever you're going through. So that's good that you had that outlet, I guess. And that kills me, Hill, because you...

The similarity of like Peyton's toughness and like your toughness. I'm fine. I'm always fine. You were so like, I'm good. It's cool. And like the tenderness that exists between all of us and the things we share, like to think of you struggling then, that shatters me because you were so like, you were like running the social scene and doing it and you just seemed great.

And I'm like, oh, no, you needed a hug. We would have come. We would have hugged you. We would have come over. The plus side to PA was that I got to come in on Brian Greenberg's day, you guys, where he was doing all this stuff with Lucas and baby Jenny. And big episode for BG and for and for Jake. I mean, let's talk about Jake.

Babe, I mean, can you imagine when you were in high school, if you had a guy in your high school who played basketball, who was that hot and who like was doing the right thing and being a single dad and just, you know, trying to just do the right thing. And then he also sings. He has a guitar and he comes to open a mic night and you're like in the cafe. It's so romantic. And the casual.

like very vulnerable way that he just presents his daughter to everyone like it let all the air out it took all the pressure it was so good and the whole room was just like it's such a tribute to him as an actor how come you bg never did a duet you two should have done a duet didn't we

I don't know. Well, because not long after this part of the season, when we all really started to learn that he could sing, remember he booked that Clooney show and he just kept leaving us. That's right. The Project Greenlight thing, right? Yeah. So I feel like, I feel like we were, I feel like we were all robbed. We were robbed. He picked Clooney over us. He picked Clooney and the fans were robbed of a duet.

Damn, it's not over yet, guys. If you could duet a song with Greenberg, what would you duet? Islands in the Stream? Say Islands in the Stream. Islands in the Stream. What else could it possibly be? He was such an Elliot Smith fan. Remember, he was always singing those Elliot Smith songs. And I don't know, I would definitely do something that's sort of in that Nick Drake...

Right. It'd be fun. Yeah. Something good and moody. I loved too before, like if we rewind to the beginning of the episode, like,

When Jake's all tired and the way Brian delivers that line, you know, because Lucas comes in and is like, oh, you didn't get any sleep? Like, who's the girl? And he's like, no, you don't know her. And all of us, those moments are so fun as an audience member when you know something the actors don't know. Because you go, oh, he means the baby. And you get all, it just feels good. Yeah, I mean, that was...

crazy to me the whole thing like a boy has a baby yeah because where I grew up there were tons of chicks with babies really but then there's also like a boy that has to have participated in that right and it never clicks you know it's always like oh she's a teen mom and so to depict a teen dad was really different I loved it I did too I thought it was so cool

Yeah, they really got that right. Would she do? Did we ever understand like what what the mom did? Wasn't it Emmanuel Vosier? She came back, right? She comes in. I know she comes in. I guess my memory is bad. I don't remember what her baggage was. I don't remember. She just didn't want to be a parent. I think that was like a druggie or something. No, I think she just didn't want to. I can't remember.

I don't remember. We're going to find out. We'll get there. It's coming. Baby Jenny just graduated high school. I am friends with her and her mom on Facebook. Oh my gosh. Hi. And all her graduation photos are posted. And so it's crazy when you look at a baby and you can absolutely see the adult that they've become. Yeah. And like, because their face is, you know, that's their face. Yeah.

And she's so cute. And she has turned into such an accomplished, responsible, beautiful young woman, Grace Holcomb. She comes to a lot of our conventions and it's fun to have watched this little person grow up. I want to know where that Polaroid is. Joy, the Polaroid music of me, Hillary and Grace. I'm,

I'm like, who has that? In what archive does that Polaroid live and how do we get it? Oh, I want it. That would be so fun to have that you know that they're somewhere. And there's all those Polaroids from all of our makeup and hair and wardrobe. They probably threw those out, actually. I don't know, guys. People have brought in our old wardrobe Polaroids for us to sign at conventions. And I'm like, how did you get this? That is so disconcerting. We bought it on eBay. I don't like it. What?

That makes me so uncomfortable. I will say the Polaroids I do like, though, are the ones we took in this episode. And it feels very important to call out the fact that in episode 10 of One Tree Hill, Brooke and Peyton invent the selfie.

Oh, come on. Literally. I'm like, we just invented it. That's what we're doing. Listen, I'm going to take credit for everything we can take credit for. Let's do it. I don't know that we were the first people to do it, but we definitely were the cutest. We were real cute. Yeah. Super cute. You guys took a few of those. I wish the Polaroid had stuck around and become more of a thing in the show. I have one right here.

Yeah. I still have Polaroid cameras. When you hear that people have Polaroid cameras now, though, it still just makes me think they're doing it to take naked pictures. Really? Because you don't because it doesn't go on the cloud. Right. Right. I love them.

I love them too. You don't have to have it printed. I just love film. I love film. I love the flash, the moment. You guys, I'm such a nerd. Like, you know, photography is so, it's like a, you know, the sixth love language. Well, your dad's a photographer. Yeah. It's like a love language in my family. I'm like the nerd who's trolling eBay to collect old Polaroid cameras.

Do it. I have like a whole storage bin up above my washing machine just of like all these weird old cameras that I've bought over the years. What are you going to do with them? I mean, I use them, but the thing that's really annoying, I have to say, is that because...

Film in general has gotten to be like retro and whatever. Now it's like a hundred bucks to get a 10 pack of Polaroid film for one of the Polaroids I have that's from the 60s. And I'm like, this feels ridiculous. I don't even know if that's going to be a good photo. What if I blinked?

It's $10 a blink? Like, get out of here. That's the charm of it back then. You know, you got the one photo by the seaside of whoever happened to have their eyes open. You just never knew. We've seen a lot of, like that picture of Brooke Payton and baby Jenny, we see a lot in like fan art and at conventions and stuff. And it's so nice to rewatch the episode and know that Haley took that picture because I'd forgotten that tidbit. Me too. And the friendship between the girls is...

on display in this episode in a really nice way. It really is. In fact, I noticed that this, to me, this was the first time, maybe I'm wrong, but it was the first time I noticed Peyton and Haley hanging out without a reason, the walk and talk. So it was already, the flyer's already been made. There was no reason for us to find each other except that we walked.

then was just like, okay, well, I guess we like each other now. So we'll just kind of keep walking and talking and hanging out. And it felt like the first time we solidified that, okay, there's an actual friendship here. It's not just thrown together in a car because we have to be or crossing paths because of this whole rectangle of people that were around, you know, it was like you and me really choosing to spend time together. I liked that. Yeah.

It made Peyton feel important that Haley like asked her to help. That is always I find like the quickest way to make a friend is to like ask somebody for their skill set. Yeah. Because you're respecting what they're good at and you're honoring that and you're including them. You're letting them know like you're the best at this. That's why I picked you, you know. Yeah.

So it's a, yeah, that's a good life hack. Do that when you want to make friends with someone. It's also so nice to see all of these people really starting to see each other. Like Peyton and Haley are really seeing each other. We're seeing Nathan. Nathan and Lucas are beginning to see each other. Like when Lucas says to Nathan at the cafe, like,

Come play with us at the river court tonight. And Nathan says, why? And he's like, cause it's fun. Remember like for the boys, for him to see that his, you know, estranged half brother is really hurting because of the pressure put on the fun thing. I, I even like, I have to say it's so funny.

We played these people for so long that they like they feel kind of like us or like our friends. And when when Haley's like being judgmental of Brooke in the beginning, I was like, that hurts my feelings. Yeah. What I love is that they're in for whatever reason in this development, like Haley and Brooke are kind of the last to see each other, you know?

And I actually thought it was really cool because it was such a thing. Hill, when you were mentioning like John Hughes movies, whatever, it was such a thing to like judge the popular girl or like judge girls for being quote unquote, like easy or sexual or whatever. And Haley does it to Brooke and Lucas defends her. And isn't like, it's cause I like her. He's like, she's cool. She's smart. She makes me laugh. Like stop, give her a chance. Yeah. It's good. Yeah.

It's really good. And like, I liked that she then kind of fessed up to Peyton. Like, yeah, I haven't been doing it and I should.

And then like when you're so nice at the end and you offer to take the Polaroid of us with the baby, I was like, oh, man, these people are making space for each other despite their predispositions. And that's that's really cool. And you even, you know, as as Haley with Peyton, you call out your predisposition. You're like, I take back everything I said about you. Like.

I find it to be really beautiful that we modeled like honesty about judgment, but also the potential to make room for your opinion to change. Yeah. That like your opinion can and maybe should change about people on a regular basis. We're all different people than we were five minutes ago. And that's true for fictional characters as well. Me, the grumpy girl that likes to make jokes instead of feel feelings is

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Hey everybody, I'm Bethany Joy Lenz. I'm Hilary Burton Morgan. And I'm Sophia Bush, and we have something very exciting to invite you to. What are y'all doing on the 23rd of September? What is the 23rd of September? It's, um, um, um, it's, um, oh yeah, it's OTH Day. One Tree Hill Day. It's our national holiday. I like that we just claimed it. That's right. It's our day. Put it on

Put it on your calendar. It belongs to us. Not only is it a live event with your drama queens, but we have a very special guest. Hillary, tell everybody what they won. Y'all, hold the phone. Gavin DeGraw is joining us for official OTH day. I can't wait. And he's going to serenade us. So go get your tickets. Loopedlive.com. The man who gave us I Don't Want to Be with your three queens.

September 23rd, One Tree Hill Day, loopedlive.com. See you there. Who do you love to party with more than any other dude on the show? Antoine Tanner. We got it.

Okay, friends, we have Antoine Tanner. He's an American actor. He is best known for his recurring role as Michael on the UPN sitcom Moesha and its spinoff, The Parkers. He had a starring role in the film Coach Carter. He's been in NYPD Blue, Sister, Sister 4, 13, Hope Street, and CSI. And he is our friend. Antoine Tanner. Skills. Was good. Was good, baby.

Look at those muscles! Hey! Okay! Hi! Talk about a tank top party! Yeah, what's going on, muscles? Are you wearing a juicy suit?

on the bottom half of that? I hope so. I just got on shorts. That was my wardrobe in one of the scenes, Twan. We were like, oh, there's a tank top and a juicy suit. Oh, it's so good to see your face. How you doing? I'm good. I'm proud of y'all, man. Y'all are killing the game. That's what I'm talking about. We're having fun. We love you. Wait, so did you ever go to any of the basketball games before that? Like, did you go sit in the stands? No. No.

You never had to work an 18 hour Sunday. I didn't have to do none of those. I was just lucky duck. Yeah. We were still on the river court. I would, I would fly in California, come shoot my damn, um, maybe once being on the stage at Lucas house or, you know what I'm saying? And then, or at the, it was all river court.

That was it. Go back, Antoine. Talk to us about what you were really like in high school. What were you doing? I think I was a lot like skills on everything because I was a basketball star. I was a basketball star at my school. I was the class clown. You don't say. I was a class clown. Well, not my freshman and sophomore year. I wasn't a basketball star then because we had stars at my school that was real good, but

But when I came to California and I went to school out here, yeah, I was like big man on campus as far as basketball was concerned. So and then I got girls because it was like a lot of different races and like that. So it was cool. How did you tell us what the audition process was like for you getting the part on One Tree Hill as a basketball player? Well, I had already knew Swan and Brian and Mike. I had already knew them. How did you know them? Yeah.

I used to play ball with, and I did actually, I work with Brian and Mike prior. We did a show called a afterschool special called, I think it was called four points with Shaq, Shaq and Cheryl Miller and Robert Richard, Robert Richard that was in coach Carter.

So we all, he played inches on the show and I was like a bully basketball kid that was a bully. You know what I'm saying? We bullied him and you know what I'm saying? Then all of a sudden he got good. So I worked with Brian on that. And then I also had did a pilot with Brian and Mike called, was there a slam? So it was supposed to be a series and it didn't get picked up. So like they already knew who I was. They already knew, you know what I'm saying? They already knew my work. So did you even have to audition or was it like, hey, come play with us on this show?

No, I went to an audition, but when I got in the room, we didn't talk. We didn't audition. You didn't even read?

You just talked. I studied the stuff and then I walked in. I was like, oh, what's up, y'all? What's happening? You know, St. Devola, everybody. I just was like, you know, and we just got to talking about basketball because at the time we was playing in the NBA Entertainment League. It had just like started. It was getting like, yeah, it was getting big. And I was like averaging like 25 MVP that year. So when I came in, they just was talking about, so who y'all playing next week? And I was like, oh, we got so-and-so. And, you know, they was like, oh, damn, that's what's up. And it was like, OK, let's go to North Carolina and shoot the show.

it's a pilot we're gonna be out there for about a week and it's gonna be happening this week uh that it was like april something when we shot i'll never forget it was like right around my birthday and uh i told him i said well i can't go this week y'all gonna have to like figure it out because i was doing a show with um clarence williams the third rest in peace um

called uh skin it was on it was on cbs and i have i remember that yeah i was doing i did four episodes on that with clarence williams the third and so he um and they was like don't worry about it we'll work it out and i was like all right cool so they was like all right get out of here we got to audition some people i was like all right bet so i left like that was my audition

Okay, so we shot the pilot and Antoine was like, like we were just like talking because I was still going back and forth to MTV and Antoine would talk and be like, oh, I know Brandy. I know so-and-so. I know so-and-so. I know so-and-so. And I was like, who is this dude that knows everybody? And then sure, I get back up to New York and everyone's like, oh yeah, Antoine. Like, yeah, of course we all know him. I was just like,

I've been. Yeah, you were like the most connected dude on the planet. You'd worked with everybody. I worked. I was, you know, it was crazy because I never wanted to be an actor or nothing. I didn't take no classes. I didn't study. I didn't,

I just was playing basketball. I got noticed playing basketball. I was doing music first. And then I was like, well, I just really want to be on the soundtrack. So my whole motivation to be in the music was like, if I could get in the music, I could get on the soundtrack. Antoine, are you going to sing for us right now?

Oh, no, I can't sing. I write. That's what I do. I write. You know what I'm saying? But I can write it. It's crazy. It's so weird. I can write it, but I just... I never was a performer. I was a performer when I was rapping. But for like...

R&B and stuff like that, it's easy for me to write that. I don't know why. You love Phil Collins. That's what I remember about the pilot is you listening to Phil Collins. I love that fact about you. You did have the best taste in music. You could always count on Antoine for a good soundtrack. I just did karaoke in Wallace, North Carolina last weekend for the Hope for the Warriors Foundation.

And the girl who runs it, she was like, you need to participate. And I was like, what do you want me to do? She's like, I'm going to do a song with you. I was like, okay. She's like, what do you want to listen to? Some rap stuff? I was like, nah, Phil Collins. She was like, what? Phil Collins. So I did Phil Collins. They had a ball out there. That was so funny. I was in the woods last week. I saw you posted that on Instagram. When's the last time you were back in North Carolina? Like a convention? Yeah, it was last week. I went out.

I flew into Wilmington, but, you know, Wallace is like right outside of like Burgall and Jacksonville. So it's like 40 minutes from Wilmington. So I was out there. I went and hung out. Me and my boy Kent, we went and hung out that night. Just went to downtown. We went to Real Cafe. We went to Level 5. Real quick and just, you know, had some wings. And then we went up to Level 5, had a couple of shots. And then we went in late. What's the scene like now? Is it the same as it was when we were there? Yes, it was a Saturday night and it was cracking.

Yeah. Yeah, it was popping. It was popping. That's what I was going to say. Yeah, they don't wear no mask. They just out. They don't care. Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I want to know what your favorite Antoine Wintry Hill storyline was that you got to do. Oh, I liked it. I liked it. Favorite skills. My favorite one was me and Nanny Deb. What's so funny is that she... Uh-huh, uh-huh. You know what it was? I think what it was was...

I was, I'm more like, I'm more confident, you know what I'm saying? Around women. But she, like, she was the first person that made me feel vulnerable. Really? She didn't make you blush. The first person. So it was like, uh. She's so hot.

Yeah, she would keep you on your toes. So it was kind of like I could never relax with her. I always had to make sure my was on point. She has the most lovely things to say about you. I mean, she was talking about the scene where you guys were in the pool together right after she had just given birth to her daughter. And, you know, she was topless and you were just so sweet to her and like always really protective and.

She just, she said that she, I mean, girls, if you remember any of this stuff too, I just remember Barb saying that she had such a great time working with you and felt so safe with you and had so much fun. Like you guys just got to play together.

Oh, yeah. She played a lot. She had me like she had me so like nervous. The fun part of doing scenes with you, Antoine, is that I don't even know if you read the script because you just say what you need to say in the scene to move it forward. Yeah. And it's fun to play. It's fun to just like make stuff up. Do you read the scripts?

I don't read the whole scripts. Just your part. I just read my scene and see what's happening. That's it. Because the way I study is different. Sam, when I worked with Sam Jackson a long time ago, I did 187 with him. He gave me like a bunch of like game. Like he used to say, forget the lines, know the scene.

and go with your instinct. Like he would always say that. And I'd be like, what do you mean? Like, you have to read it. He said, you don't need to read everybody's stuff. You wasn't there for their stuff. You only there for your stuff. I was like, oh, okay. That makes sense. So that's what made me stop like really reading the scripts. And I was just like, okay. But it kind of clicked in what he was saying. I didn't, I didn't get it at first, but then I was like, oh, let me see. So what I would do, he would like read it, just read the scene real quick and leave it alone. Just read it one time and leave it alone.

And I'd be like, all right, cool. So I would do it like two days before I even filmed. So I would read it. I'd be in the shower and you don't say no, you're in the shower. And you just think, let it just go through your head. So then when I got to set, it was like, this is how I was going to say it already. Cause this is, I'm just going over it in my head, just paraphrasing it. And the words just kind of came. So if I needed to fine tune something, it could be like, oh, that meant this. Okay, well, let me go back and say that. But it was easy to put it in. That was always a cool thing to watch too. Cause like,

we we all got I mean watched like hawks like we had to be word perfect the script supervisor was always on us it was like the note from LA like they have to say exactly what's on the page and you'd come to set and everyone was like oh well the rules don't apply to Antoine we were all so in awe of you we were like how did he get that how do we get that yeah they and and you you always made it better like whatever they put on the page for skills you'd be like no I get the

I get the point, but I'm going to do it like this. But it was fun to play with because as an actor, I mean, 90% of acting is listening. So if you're, it felt like I got to really be in the moment with you because I didn't know what to expect exactly. So it was my job to listen to you and then I could respond. And usually what was on the page was a suitable response for whatever it was that you were saying. And sometimes it wasn't, and then we would just play and, you know, go, go on the fly. Yeah.

But the thing is, they can't write Ibanis. They try to do it. Oh, no. That's the worst. It's hard for them to write that. So it's like, and then to, you know how it is, like, like you can't,

You can't play a character like this because you may offend those people that actually talk like that. You see what I'm saying? So we got to go back to the hood because I still go to Compton. I still go to South Central and Watts. And then they be like, man, you know we don't talk like that. You dumbing us down. You making us look stupid. You making us look... You see what I'm saying? Because that's not how...

it goes over there. So, you know what I'm saying? So you have to take that into account. Like I can't be over here, you know, disrespecting doctors and I'm saying certain words and doctors are looking at me going, what? Yeah. That's not it. Come on, man. I want to know what all of your friends thought when you joined on to this show about white kids kissing and crying, Antoine. Like what? What did they say? My friends were like, go and get that white money. Get the money. It was like, get that white money. Oh.

Did anyone give you for being on like a teen drama? Because you, I mean, you were a sports guy, you know? You've also played a teenager forever because you are ageless. Yeah, I played. I told my daughter, I said, I played 17 for 17 years. And she was like... Has she seen it? Have your kids seen the show? I don't think they watch it. I mean, my kids are like...

Totally not like industry kids at all. No, they're smart. Yeah, they got my oldest son. He got his last year at, what is it, aerospace engineering, something. Wow. And then the young one, he's getting ready to go to college. He took this year off. He's been working with me. My other daughter, she is still in school. And then the other one is doing something in makeup. So she's the only one that's kind of close because she wanted to do something. But she's still in school for that right now. So yeah.

They was really just like not industry kids. I remember a few times y'all want to go to the premiere. No, I'm about to go to. So you don't want to go to the premiere. That's like I always bought like my sister in law, mom, pops, you know, bought other people because they never wanted to go.

Your son hung out on set with us, though, which was crazy to me that you had a kid old enough to come and hang out. We were all such doofuses, and you were dead. Yeah, they all came. Well, three of them came that one time when we did the racer. Soapbox Derby, yeah. They all came in. That's when he was stealing all the snacks. I also remember, Twan, when you and I first started to become friends in the beginning...

And there was that night we were all still living at the Riverview Suites because like we hadn't found apartments yet or anything. And the fire alarm went off at like three in the morning. We all had to plod downstairs. And your little baby just crawled up in my lap. And I was like, hi, let's yes, you can stay here. And you looked at me and you were like, he's smart. He knows he's cute. It's it's working. He's almost 21 now.

Yeah, that's crazy. Oh my gosh. He's the baby. That's the crazy part. Now he's my workout. He hit me up a couple weeks ago. I was like, dad,

You look good. You've been working out. I see you lost your weight. Can I come with you and go to your trainer? I was like, all right. That's a compliment. Yeah. So he's been with me for the last couple of weeks. So I want to ask a question that we kind of all get hit with all the time from fans and in interviews and stuff, which is where do you think skills would be 10 years later?

Like, where is he now? I think skills would have been coaching. I really believe he would have been coaching because, you know, they did a lot of stuff that he did for the, with the kids, you know, he was coming here. So I think skills would be like,

If not the head coach, at least the assistant coach at Tree Hill High. Yeah, I could see him as head coach for sure. Head coach, like a gym teacher, but, you know, a gym teacher, but slash basketball coach. I could see him. Yeah, he was a mentor in so many ways and really had his, really had his shit together, I feel like. Well, he became like Jamie's babysitter. You know, like anytime there was kids stuff, they put you on the case, Antoine. They were like, we know who can handle this.

Yeah. And the kids was so much easier than working with the girls. It was because, see, y'all got to get hair and makeup and wardrobe. I was like, where are you about to go with this? Every time they yell cut the makeup people in y'all face, they making sure your hair is straight. The kids, they just got dressed one time. They don't care. They eat cheeseburgers. They got skateboards. They didn't care about none of that. So we would get it. Then they only had to work like five hours. So I was like, my day is short. Yeah.

You would have figured out. Hold on, though. We came back from hiatus one year. I don't know if it was season four or season five, but I got the memo. Maybe it was even season two. I got the memo that they were hooking Peyton and Skills up. Do you remember that? What? No, I'm going to tell you what happened. This is what happened. Tell me what happened. I did not hear this. We had went out. We went out.

We went out and we went back to Swan's Place when it was on Market Street. They were staying at that condo upstairs. So we went back there. So he started asking me questions like, well, what do you think? I said, man, why y'all don't never give skills no drama? Like hook him up with a girl, like one of the main girls that, you know what I'm saying? He's like, well, I don't know. And I was like, no, listen. I said, if you, I said, that's all kind of girl code y'all breaking and shit.

So the best friend get to date the other one she's still in love with. Y'all cool with that? Like, okay, that's a girl code. Like y'all, y'all all that. So why not hook skills up with one of them? Since y'all all over the place. I said, him and Peyton would be really good. You know what I'm saying? Cause then it could give us some type of, you know what I'm saying? Some type of conflict. Yeah. Because I don't have nothing. I'm just, I just come in, say some funny shit. Then,

then you don't see me you know what I'm saying I said that was it Peyton needed somebody that was funny Peyton never got to kiss anybody funny I only kissed who did I kiss you kissed Bevan I kissed Lauren Miss Lauren and Deb that's it

But like Lee kissed everybody. Lee did kiss everybody. Even my girl. Wait, did we ever, we should take a poll. Which character on our show kissed the most people? That's a fan poll. Ooh. Who do you think it was? That's a fan poll. Somebody do the math. I feel like it was probably Brooke. But oh man, if mouth beats Brooke, I'll be thrilled. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah, you might be right. But I think it was, I think it was Lee because he kissed Brooke.

He kissed my girl. He kissed Lauren. He kissed Rachel. He kissed everybody. He had Millie. He had the other girl. Yeah. Wow. Oh, yeah. What a scam. Marvin McFadden. Twan, what was your favorite thing about the entire Wonderville experience? Like as you look back on that chapter in your life, like what was your favorite thing of all of it?

You know what's crazy? Because I was just in, when I say I was just in Wilmington last week, and I, like, look around, and I, like, when I'm near, I feel like I got to get up and go to work. Like, I don't know why. I just feel like I got to get up. We got to go to straight gyms. Like, it was like, oh, we not working on the show no more, like, down here. But the love is still here. It's crazy, but...

My biggest thing was I met a whole family. You know what I'm saying? That was like huge for me because I hated it in North Carolina. When I first went, I used to take my beer. It was so boring because you remember everything used to close at like five o'clock. I didn't drink. I didn't smoke. I didn't do none of that. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, I don't dance. I don't know nobody. I'm just in this hotel room with that Wemingtonian or Riverview. And I'm just...

chilling like it was nothing to do until they came and picked you up from work so as you look forward to going to work when you got there but as soon as it was time for me to come home I was like let's go I'm out of here I'm going back to LA plus I had small kids at the time too so but yeah what was the turning point for you when did you start to feel like it was a home base

Season like five, like five, six. Yep. About like five, six is when I like, because I remember I didn't sign until season four. I think it was season four. That's crazy. Yeah, because I was still recurring, but I was still working a lot though. You know, like they couldn't let me just, you know, because when I first started it, I was doing, I had right after we did One Tree Hill, I went to did Never Die Long. Right. We did Never Die Long. I think that was like 04. Then we got the pickup.

So then everybody started working on that. But then I had, then Coach Carter came around, even though that was still the same people. They was like, we can't do it because then we have to shoot you out and then we got to bring you back to LA. So we'll just let you go do the movie. Then after the movie, then we'll bring skills. You know, that's when they came up with the whole, we'll make a run at the state championship and stuff like that. I was like, all right, cool. Let's do it.

But then Wilmington actually started growing a little bit by then. So I was like, okay, I could get used to this a little bit. It did go from like all the antique stores. Remember it was like all the antique stores? Yeah, it was different. But then like downtown all of a sudden was like bars and tattoo parlors. Then it became like fun. Yeah. It was just dead. It was so dead. I used to just play video games all day. I didn't do nothing. Aww.

Which is so strange for a college town. I always thought it should have been, there should have been more of a nightlife. I mean, so glad that when we showed up there, that started. But like Dawson's was there before us. There were lots of other projects there. I don't know why it didn't. It was just still dead. I remember I tried to rent a car and I had to go up there and it was closed at like five o'clock, four o'clock. It was nothing. No more stores after that on market. Yeah, it was like fields and farms. I know.

Antoine, what are you working on now? I just did this show called Ho, H-O-E. Oh. Me Happiness Over Everything. It's actually on my page, the trailer that I have posted with a friend of mine, Miko Grimes. Cool. I met her. I've been knowing Miko since high school. We played ball together. Like, she played at WNBA and all that, but I played ball with her. And, um...

She ended up marrying Brent Grimes when he played for the Falcons. And she became a sports agent, stuff like that. You know what I'm saying? So she made her own money. And so she was like, bro, I got a project. I want you to come help me do it. And we did it. It was a short film. It just won some awards somewhere, but she's shopping it right now to get picked up. But I also did another spot called...

I did another joint called, what is the name of it? St. Bodie. St. Bodie's Mad World. It's a true story. It's supposed to be like a miniseries. That's going to be crazy. My character's so, I'm like the Dan Scott. I'm evil in this one. Ooh, fun. Ooh, that's going to be really fun. Yeah, and the little girl, the little girl that's in the show with me that plays my daughter, oh my God, she's incredible. Like, she's going to blow up. I posted her. I was like, she's a newbie, but she has it. Like, she has it. Like,

You posted this on Instagram so we can repost it? Yeah, I posted it. I just posted the picture of her, but I'm waiting on them to send me the trailer. You have to let us be your cheerleaders. Yeah. I got you. I posted it. I'm definitely going to post it. I just hadn't posted it because they hadn't really put nothing out like that yet. When it's go time, we're your girls. So good. And then I'm going to shoot that movie I was telling you about, The Leash. Yeah.

So finally, it's so good. It's been like 11 years. And finally, it's like we got the money to do it. So it's like, let's do it. You know what I'm saying? We love you. It's so good to see you. I'm so glad that you came. Yeah. Will you come back on the show? Please. Yeah. Y'all let me come play with us. What episode do you want to come back for? What's the episode where you're like dibs? That one's mine. Let me see. It was so many good ones, though.

It was so many good ones. I can't lie. Because me, I never read the script for the school movie. So I never forget me and Lee was on set and Lee was like, yeah, tomorrow we got to go to the cemetery to film the funeral scene. I was like, somebody died? Oh no. He was like,

Yeah, I was like, oh, my bad. I didn't read that. Oh, man. So I was like, man, I said, this is going to be a good episode. I need to read this. I never read it. I watched it because at the time when we first started, I knew we was going to last. I kept saying everybody else was like, Twan, you tripping, you tripping. And I said, look, I'm going to tell you like this.

We got some pretty white boys and some pretty white girls. And y'all keep us in the damn tabloids. So we stand in the tabloids. This show coming back. I said, it ain't no need of me auditioning for nothing. I'm just going to take my. It was like 20. Just merge the WB with this. They canceled all of these shows. I said, but this one ain't nowhere. You did. You always had confidence. We need to have you and Barbara on the same episode. Yeah. We need a review.

Hell yeah. I want to see you get a little bashful around Barbara. Yeah. Look at your face. It's coming. I love her. She is so sweet. And her daughters are so big and pretty and grown. Oh my God. No, can you believe? Yeah. I remember they was in Paris with us when we did that convention over there.

Oh my God. Oh yeah. Me and Olivia and we had so much fun.

If you're ever to go out in Paris with someone, it's Antoine. The time that Antoine is taking me out. He also taught me what Uber was because I didn't know how to get home in Paris. And Antoine's like, I will teach you how to go out because you're a moron. Antoine, we've got to wrap up, but I love you and I'm excited that you're going to come back. And you've always taken such good care of us. Anytime something's going on in our life, you are the person that calls us.

and checks in. And I can't tell you how important that is. Yeah. We love you. I love y'all. You know, you already know. Wait, before he goes, should we spin the wheel? I would love to have Antoine put on the, on the wheel. We do a, we do a most likely to like in the yearbook every week, but we have this fun little thing that spins it and it picks the most likely to for us. Get ready for this. So it's picks at random. We need your help here. Yeah.

Who's most likely to write a best-selling book? Well, I mean, we have Lucas and we have Hillary, like real life and fiction. Oh my God. Listen, so I've gotten some bad reviews for my book and of course I read them, right? And every single bad review is, she didn't talk about One Tree Hill at all. That's what they're mad about. Wow. Bitch, please. We'll write a whole book about that.

It'll be great. You can't please everybody. I say that. I used to do my parties at the convention and I still have people mad. So it's like. That's so funny. Somebody is always mad about something. They always mad about something. You can't please everybody. So I just say, you know what? It is what it is. Like, I don't give a damn. When the world is safe again and you throw your epic party at the next convention, what is the karaoke song that you're going to sing, Antoine?

In the air tonight, Phil Collins. I can feel it. I might do We Wait and We Wonder because I like that one. I like We Wait and We Wonder. That's a good one. All right. We're counting the days. Y'all get vaccinated. Wear your masks. Can't wait. Can't wait to see you guys. I love you. Love you. Love you so much. Tell my wifey we said hi. I will. She upstairs laying down. She had an appointment early this morning, so she in the bed.

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

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I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session, 24 hours. BPM 110, 120. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not.

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I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things.

that feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly.

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to just like take a look at because it's producers that I've worked with before. And it is so him. It's like an awesome thriller movie. He's the lead of it. Yes. You read it and you know that it is just the thing that was made for him. And so it's going to be so good. That makes me so happy. He's going to be so good in it. And so I love seeing him like so fit. Because it's like action-y. So yeah.

Y'all keep your eyes peeled. Boyfriend's going to be an action hero. I love that. Hey, what's next week's episode? Anybody know? What happens in 11? What are we looking forward to? Let's see. Episode 11 is called The Living Years. And I mean, we have Dan and Deb now. They've got to go to therapy or she's kicking him out.

Basketball's on pause. Peyton's starting something up with Jake. It seems like there was a lot of chemistry there. Yeah, well, it says here in this description, Peyton's dad comes home. Oh. This is going to be good. This is dad number one. There were two dads. Actually, there were three dads, but this is dad number one. Okay. Thank you all so much for joining us for another great episode. This one was really, really fun, you know?

The three of us got a little weepy when we watched that sort of epic moment going from Gavin at Karen's cafe to the boys on the river court and all of us in, and you know, our moment on the comet and, and,

I don't know. We, we were all talking while we were watching it about how, if there's a night that we could go back to and just relish in again, at least so far in these first 10 episodes, that, that would be the night to like bop back into the river, to the river court. And I would have stolen the pool. You would have stolen the pool. She's got sticky fingers now. Oh,

I would have just taken them and put them in a scrapbook. Felt so good to see everybody in the same place. And I remember us all having so much fun that night. And, you know, just the weather and everybody having a ball and the lights were bright and the whole cast was there. And it felt like we were really doing something special.

special and exciting. And I really felt like I was a part of something special and, and I was, we were, you know, but that night it's for some reason the magic was alive. So thanks for joining us for that special part of the episode for, for us. And thanks for keeping the magic alive for us all these years, guys. Don't forget. You're the reason we're here. Go Ravens.

listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time. Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.