Unbreak My Heart • EP301
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Yes, we are. It is the season three premiere. So much happened in this episode, including a ton of ADR, which we'll explain what that is later. But first things first, Haley came home the night of the fire, which Dan somehow survived. He's like a cockroach. Honestly, Dan is so devious.

Three months have passed. Nathan ended up going to High Flyers. He still doesn't know if he can trust Haley again. Brooke moves into Nathan and Haley's old apartment, which is my favorite set. Like, I love hanging out in that set. And I love that they never made us give it up. We just rotated it. Peyton is still emotionally struggling over what now? Like, what now? Her birth mother. And then Brooke and Lucas start casually dating. Yeah.

Were they dating, though? Like, I don't know. That's a lot. Yeah, the whole, like, friends with benefit thing in the early 2000s was weird because it was, like, kind of this, like, girl power movement of we're not going to be your girlfriend. We're just going to kiss anybody because we can be, like, boys. Yeah.

I feel like we got kind of hoodwinked on that. Yeah, we did. I think we got duped. I feel like this guy made this up and said it was our idea. You know what it is? The same guy, you know how like Victoria's Secret, when they started doing like all the angel fashion shows, we were told like, oh, this is girl power. Love your body. And then we find out all these years later, it was like super misogynistic and just dudes. Yeah. I feel like that's the movement. They're like, tits up, girls. Tits up. Oh, my God. Just kissing. Yeah.

It's interesting. I will say as much as I'm like meh on the idea, what I did like is that the director of this episode, Greg Prange, who was, you know, our on-site producer who knew us all really well, he did like to lean into...

what more was going on with the characters than was on the page. Because he was present for every single episode. Yeah. And so I liked... He cared about these characters. I know he did. He really did. And I liked that he offered me space as an actor to say the lines. We're going to be casual and whatever. But then to show that it was a defense mechanism. Of course. Yeah. Brooke was testing Lucas. Yeah.

to see if he would play by her rules and keep showing up and sort of earn her trust. And I'm glad we had someone familiar to do that with because otherwise I think it would have just felt geeky. Well, they would have wanted you to make it, like, sexy, and it's not. You're totally right when you say it's a defense mechanism. It's how far can I push you and you'll keep your promise to support me and be your, you know,

Be my guy. Which Brooke needs after what she's been through with the last few guys. And with Lucas also. Like, she needs to be able to push a little bit and know that he's not just going to blow away with the wind. Yeah. Brooke also came back like Sabrina from Paris with these bangs. That I loved so much. I love these bangs. When was the last time you had bangs? Wait, have you done this again, Sophia? Yeah, I cut bangs. Since then?

God, I can't remember if it was like just after my 30th birthday. I can't believe you didn't cut pandemic bangs. Everybody on the planet cut pandemic bangs. And you're so good with them. I know.

I really do enjoy them. Y'all, I have a cowlick. And so unless I blow dry them out, like they go in two directions. So I've learned that bangs are a bit high maintenance for me. But man, did I like these bangs. And I feel vindicated that all the ladies are in support because I got yelled at when I cut these bangs by our boss. It was a real dick. Oh, yeah. And all these years later, I think they stand the test of time. So he can write off, my bangs were great. You can just...

Just write the off. Right off. Sorry, everyone at home. We're we're spicy tonight. So spicy. I have my spicy tequila tonight. Yeah, we're doing an evening podcast. We're all happily.

Wait, I wonder if fans can tell the difference when we do early morning podcasts versus like late night podcasts. Like we should let them guess from now on, like morning or night. Yeah. We should take a poll. Every week we should actually do a poll. That would be so fun. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good idea. Was it morning or night? I love it. This episode is a drunk history edition. Yeah.

Are we going to do a drunk OTH history where we have to tell the story of what happened all season long? Oh my God. Like when you and I did Les Mis in four minutes or something? Yes. Yes.

We're going to do a sloppy recap of season two. No, guys, I really, really like season three. You know, any time the fans ask us what season's our favorite, historically, for me, it's three. Because, you know, I love Cheryl Lee. I love Kevin Kilner, who shows up in this episode. Like, I love him.

I don't love crying all the time, but geez, I got to work with like, you know, people I loved and we all looked so fucking cute this season. Like Joy, you and the long hair. You and your little haircut. Everybody's hair was so good. Everybody's got a great bra on and tank tops. What was that bra? I don't know.

Because it was the same one. Guys, it had such a specific front cut. Yeah. Like, I know it was. And Joy, you're the one who spotted it. You were like, we're wearing the same bra. That's a perky bra. I don't know what it is. But yeah, I want it. It probably comes from the terrible era of Victoria's Secret. Yeah, it's the friends with benefit bra. That's what it is. Well, where else was there to shop for bra? There were really no alternatives at that time anyway. No, especially not in, you know.

Wilmington, not part of town. We had the one Victoria's Secret at the mall. That was it. That was it. I know. But everybody did look really good. We looked cute. We were covering the...

the, the basis of, um, oh my God, like you had the Sophia, you had like the Sandra Bullock thing going on. Oh my God. Yes. And I'm going to climb into Julia Roberts territory. Cause you never know when my hair is going to go curly. And, uh, I think, I think we have this sort of like rom-com queen trifecta happening in the, in the, uh, in the season three. I'm excited about seeing the rest of it. I'm really excited. You know what too?

This is when the like hocus pocus, not hocus pocus. What am I thinking of? Practical magic, Hill. This is when the practical magic thing started for us. When people were like, you guys should do Bullock and Kidman. Oh my God. I think, Joy, you just nailed it. I think it's the haircuts this season. Who was our costumer this year? I can't even remember. I don't know. But we had somebody different come in. Was it a guy? No, he was season four.

Oh. I just feel like there were some changings of the guard between two and three, and you can see all of us feel more comfortable. Yeah. I am uncomfortable in those orange pants for myself now. You looked cute in those orange pants. But listen, I'm telling you, this episode was all tank tops all the time. Except for Nathan, who's not wearing a shirt at all the whole episode. That's a good wardrobe choice for him, though.

We should tell James. Be like, hey, we made an executive decision for you. Just don't wear shirts. As your coworkers. It's a good choice. As your friends, we'd like to tell you we have an opinion.

I just love, okay, so do you guys remember when we were filming this whole, like, who killed Dan thing? Yeah. How obsessed our bosses were about creating the same kind of energy around our show that that show Dallas had about, like, who shot J.R.? Who shot J.R.? Who shot J.R.? Oh, my gosh, Hillary, I forgot about that. They were obsessed with it. They would never stop talking about it. And-

By the way, you know. It worked. Sort of, yeah. I mean, it literally could have been anyone except you or me. Because in the end montage of the show, they show every single character on our show angry at Dan, except for Brooke and Peyton. Yeah. Yeah.

crying about other shit. You guys are all trying to kill Dan. It did feel like an episode of Clue. It was like, you know, it was Hayley in the library with a candlestick. That's what the 40s episode should have been. Clue. Oh my God, it should have been Clue. It's not too late, Joy. It's not too late. What if we did One Tree Hill Clue the movie? Yes. Yes.

But wait, so by there's your own adventure? Yeah, 100%. By the end of the series, Dan is dead. So who would be like the next victim on the show? If we're going to do One Tree Hill Clue, who dies next? Okay, who's the next victim after Dan? I mean, Rachel, but she's not around yet. Who else? Who's the bad guy? There's no other villain. He's the only villain. I mean, I guess Deb maybe would go next. It would be such a shame. It would be.

But I don't know. Like, she's the only one that seems to have that, like, she could go bad. But why does it have to be a main character? What if somebody dies in Tree Hill and then the rest of us have to investigate and prove our innocence? That's more fun. I didn't do it, guys. I didn't do it. It wasn't me. I've been on a webcam this whole time. It's being watched by Watch Me Watch You, which we didn't revisit in this episode. And I kind of wish they had just to recap and remind us that there was something creepy going on.

Because that was a weird mislead in the end of last season. It was very strange. And also, they made such a big deal out of it. Even in the beginning of the episode where Peyton and Lucas are having this moment where they're becoming like real friends again. And she's like, I've been getting these creepy emails. And I'm like, first of all, they're on AIM. And second of all, we're never going to talk about them again. So like, you confide in him about it. And then they disappear, which...

Feels strange. It feels not like a 16-year-old girl, because what I can tell you, having been a 16-year-old girl, is that when we're weirded out about something, we talk about it all the fucking time. A lot. Like, we don't just, like, drop it and then walk away. No, it's so high school. Yeah, you fixate on it. Yeah. What I will say, though, is that Peyton lives in this world of watch me, watch you for a while, like for a couple seasons. Yeah. And I...

I'm so paranoid anytime I stay in a hotel room or like an Airbnb or something that there are cameras everywhere. Me too. The seed was planted. Oh, I always check in the vents. Like there's a hole in the wall. Like the air conditioning vents. I check every vent. Do you know there's an app on your phone that can scan for hidden cameras? What? Because I do. Because Peyton Sawyer traumatized me. So now I'm just out there scanning every room I go into. Watch me while you. I need this.

I'm really, I'm into it. I think it's smart. I think everybody should do it.

That should be the name of the app. Watch me watch you. Watch me watch you. I see you, you pervert. I see you. See you. Stop me from watching you. You're sick. You know what else was creepy in this episode? It was that face in Peyton's bedroom that they kept shining a light on. Yeah. Why did that face get a feature light? It's not right. It was a sculpture. What was it? We're in season three and Joy is like, what is that thing on your desk? Yeah.

And I'm just like, baby, that's been there since the pilot. It was like a dummy head. It was literally like a mannequin head, but the hair part had been removed, and so there was like pencils in it. Like, it was like a pencil holder. What?

On the desk. And of course, that's the thing they spotlight. And it's so... But like, Lucas is having this really sincere... He's really trying to talk to you. And all I can see behind him is this strange... Like a boogeyman head. Also, I must say, there...

You can tell when something gets highlighted and when it doesn't. And in this episode, that head and that like D23, whatever that poster was. Yeah, D12 or the M&M thing. Yeah, the characters in the show, why were they so central? Here's what I think. If you notice, everyone's wearing a white tank top in this episode.

People's hair rarely changes, and we are constantly in front of the same backgrounds. I think we block shot the shit out of this episode because they spent so much time on the fire. Like, there were certain things we had to spend a ton of time on. And so the other stuff, like the scene work, I think we block shot it. I don't know if we've explained block shooting to people at home, but...

Somebody explain it. Tell them what it is. Tell them what it is, Hillary. No, guys, you're the directors. I'm just the bitchy actress. Block shooting is when you take everything that's in one location in the whole episode and you film it all at one time. Or if there's...

Yeah, in the direction so that you're facing... I actually feel like we've explained this on the show before, but I can't remember. So you just face the same direction and everybody who's in that scene or...

or in scenes in that episode in that location will file in and do their scene in that direction. So everybody's there all day long just waiting for their direction to be up. So you face the window, then you turn around and face the other side. And then sometimes it's four ways and then a wide shot. So it can be quite complicated. And sometimes in order to avoid the cameras having to move all day long,

all the way around the room, around the room, around the room, around the room. They just stay in one place for four hours and then move again and stay in that place for another four or five hours. And then, you know. It's not the best way to do it. I mean, it's... It's not. It's a super big time saver, you know? But you can also tell, too, like...

You're not moving. The other thing I noticed... Everyone seems to lose their minds a little bit. All my scenes, Peyton doesn't look at anybody. It's like Chad over my shoulder or Kevin Kilner over my shoulder. Saying things away. It's two actors looking in the same direction, so you only need to set up the camera once.

Yeah. Yeah. So we were saving tons of time so that that fire would be the most epic fire that ever fired. There were a lot of shots in that fire. I remember driving out there that night, Hill. We were so pumped. The buildup of this fire. It was like, guys, you're never going to see anything like it ever again in the history of your careers. There's going to be an explosion. And we were like, okay. Yeah.

I also just remember being amped to stand in that parking lot because we were like, there's something to do. Oh, my God. There was just something to do other than go to Deluxe or go to the movie theater. And we were thrilled. Blowing stuff up. We were in the parking lot of the Independence Mall. What is that? What road is that on? Eastwood? Eastwood.

I can't remember anymore. It's that big North-South road, the big one. It's the road with the frickin' Victoria's Secret mall. Yeah. Hot Topic, Victoria's Secret, what other stores? PacSun, Macy's. There was a wet seal in that mall. We had everything. We were living the dream, blowing stuff up in the parking lot. I remember us sitting in our cars being like, ooh, this is going to be the coolest thing ever. And everyone made it sound like it was going to be so dangerous. And looking back at it now, I'm like...

It's a fire. It's a building on fire. It's a building on fire. And it was super controlled, so it still felt safe, I guess. Were we worried about Dan? Like, did anyone really think Dan was going to die besides Deb? No. I mean, it's awfully hard to be worried about Dan since we know what happens. It's kind of like, you know what happens with the Titanic?

But like no one's surprised at the end of the movie. Is Dan the iceberg? But you're heartbroken. Dan is our iceberg, guys. That feels right. He really is. The iceberg's not going anywhere. The iceberg's not moving for you. But I will say, I do think at the time when the show was airing, people really did wonder if he was going to die.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so, too. It was a big deal. It was a big whodunit, like what's going to happen? I think they did splashes on Entertainment Weekly on it. I think it was kind of all over all the little pop culture spots, like what's going to happen to Dan? And you can tell even in the way that it was written, you know, where the firefighter says something to Barbara, you know, to Deb, right?

And she says, my husband was inside. And he goes, they didn't tell you? Hold on, Captain. And you think, oh, somebody's coming to do a death notification. And then he comes around the side of that ambulance, sucking on an oxygen mask. And he realizes nobody's happy to see him. He looks like Hannibal Lecter with, like, the mask on. Right. Because he was being so creepy. But he also looks like another Wilmington icon, Dennis Hopper in blue velvet, sucking on that oxygen mask. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Just creepsville. Yeah. I was really fascinated by the scene with Dan in the confessional. Because it's the first time we've ever seen him behaving genuinely sincere. Well, I guess he's sincerely awful, but being sincere about his place in the existential world.

the existential world, where does he belong? The first time he's really, you know, being genuinely being vulnerable without anyone present who he might get something from, unless he's like literally trying, I guess, because he does ask, can I, can I get forgiveness for something I haven't done already? So is he trying to, is he trying to gaslight God? Is that,

Is this Dan's final move? He doesn't really want forgiveness, I don't think. Right. But why is he bothering to go to the confessional? That's a really interesting choice to make for a person, to go to a confessional seeking genuine forgiveness.

And forgiveness, feeling some kind of genuine repentance and yet also wanting to get away with something, like seeing if God's going to let you get away with something. Yeah. I think that's so interesting. I mean, there's a part of me that thinks Dan gets his kicks out.

Seeing what he can get away with. And so going in and basically admitting that you're going to do something bad. Yeah. And now you've got this pastor, you know, privilege of, are you going to tell on me? What are you going to do about it? You know, like if he can pull one over on an institution that is supposed to be, I don't know, like utmost respect. Yeah.

It shows you just how very low he is. But like in all seriousness, does someone just sit there all day and like you can walk in at any time? I don't know what the rules are. Do they not have hours? How does that work? Yeah. Do you have to make an appointment? My mom grew up Catholic. I should ask her.

Mom, text your mom. I think they do have ours. Is it only Catholic churches that have confessional or is it other ones? Yes. It's only Catholic. Yeah. And it's private. It was a beautifully shot scene. I thought that was really pretty. I liked how it was edited because we're coming back after, you know, a couple months and it reminds the audience of every single person that Dan has hurt. And I'd forgotten that he pissed off Whitey. And, you know, like,

You forget, like, oh, wow. But he assaulted Karen. Karen threw a chair through a window. She was so mad. Friends, we all...

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I think it's no secret to listeners of our podcast that we all love Squarespace over here because our lives are pretty chronically online. And I'm going to tell you, I needed a website and had absolutely no idea how to do it. And Squarespace made it really, really easy for me. And I sort of feel like if, you know, my all over the place creative brain can manage to actually,

make a real website all by my lonesome, anybody can do it. Wouldn't you say? Listen, I wouldn't sell yourself short, but it is helpful to know that if you could do it starting from scratch, then maybe there's hope for me when I finally decide to build my own website. I can't wait.

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But Paul is so good at going back and forth between the sincere and the evil. I mean, when Deb comes up to him and he's got amnesia, so-called amnesia, and he can't remember, and he's being so genuine with her. And I really thought for a moment, like, oh my gosh, maybe this amnesia really, really changed him. How does he do it every time he gets us? Yeah, he really does. Well, because the audience, they're like, surely at some point,

Is this it? No, no, this isn't it. Is this it? No, no. No, no, no. How long can it go on before the audience is like, it's never happening. Never. But it's really playing on our emotions. Think about real life. Think about the people in your life that you know who are like that and you still keep thinking, maybe this is the moment. Maybe this is when they're going to change. Yeah.

We do it all the time. Joy, this is why there's 8 million memes out there about like, set your boundaries, walk away. Exactly. I see these Instagram posts. I like them. Yeah. Dan's crazy, but Deb also is, you know, like making her gin comments. Did she finish up pill rehab and now she's drinking? Is that what's happening? She did, but you're not supposed to do that.

You're not supposed to drink after you go to rehab for pills. Yeah, that feels a little... Again, I don't know what the rules are. I don't either. I think sober is sober. I think you're supposed to not do that. So yeah, she's making these comments. She's hip and she turned Karen's into a cybercab. Yeah, I wonder if maybe she's making... Because she goes to get coffee, but she's making jokes about gin. Is she making fun of herself? But it's just not very good writing. Yeah, maybe. I don't think I understand it.

I just, we still don't know who actually lit the fire. And I think it was her. I think even though they're alluding to that, it was Lucas. I think you're right. Somebody who, which one of you said Lucas? Oh, Hillary said Lucas saves Dan. I think that was it. And the giveaway that Lucas saves Dan is that he has the burnt card. So Lucas was in that dealership when it was already on fire. Right. Yes. But why would he, why would you save someone's life and take the card that

What ties you to the crime scene? Because I think he's trying to protect whoever did it. Because to Lucas, he doesn't know if it was Keith. He doesn't know if it was Nathan. He doesn't know if it was his mother or Andy. Lucas is trying to protect whoever actually did it because he knows that those repercussions are...

Yeah. Well, and it's smart, too, because the way they set up the Deb and Nathan of it all, Nathan comes in and she says, I've been here alone all night, which sounds ridiculous. I'm like, she's trying to establish an alibi. But where was Nathan? Because it could have been. So so they start playing tricks on you where you're like, well, it could have been her or if she was home, it could have been him. And she says, we're getting out. And he says, I know we are. Is it because he's making sure they are like they did a good job?

Establishing the question. Did your husband just walk by with his shirt undone? He just brought me a glass of wine. Sup, dude? He has a shirt on under that shirt. Oh, all right. The top shirt is unbuttoned. Sophia's fiance, Grant, is so, I have to say, he's like become the wine connoisseur, I think over the pandemic, right? He became a wine connoisseur. He was really into wine even before, but yeah, he's now made it like his actual work, which is so nice for me. But it's all organic.

Yeah. Yes. But it's all like organic, bio-dynamic. Can I just tell you, I went over to Soph's house and we sat and had dinner and I drank way more wine than I usually do. I usually stop at a glass and a half because I have to drive home or I just, I also just don't like the way I feel in the morning after drinking wine. I have a headache. I feel awful. So it's not worth it to me anymore. Yeah.

So a glass and a half is usually my limit. I definitely went over that. And I tell you, I woke up the next morning and felt fine. Yeah.

Yeah. Fine. There's no, nothing. And I said, what is this magic? And it's because they're all organic wines. Yeah. Because it's not wine that makes you feel bad. It's the creepy additives that they're allowed to put in it. Grant explained it to me this way, which I thought was such a good way to understand it, is that they've basically made wine into Coca-Cola.

Like they want it to taste... They want every bottle to taste the same every time. And wine is alive. That's not how it works. Interesting. And so when you drink completely organic, natural wine, biodynamic wine that doesn't have 81 legally allowed additives in it, like most of the wine that comes off a shelf, yeah, you're like...

run wine tastings for people over here okay like we'll start with a white and then go to an orange and then we'll do a light red and then we'll do a red and everyone's like what's happening and everybody the next day is like i don't have a headache i feel great that sounds so nice like yeah because you didn't get poisoned you just had a nice day yeah we gotta send you we gotta we gotta sign up for good good what is it good wine good wine drink good wine club okay i signed up so

I'm shamelessly plugging your fiance Grant. It's very fun business. And we need the wine suitcase with drama queens right on the front. Yeah. We need a wine suitcase and we'll just cart it around with us when we take the show on the road, folks. That's right. Yeah. Well, you know who really needed a glass of wine in this episode was Haley. Oh my God. Enjoy the work you had to do in this episode, honey. That,

beautiful scene between you guys when you come in and you ask him if he's awake. You guys, God, that scene was so good. The kissing? I cried. Oh, it hurt. It like, yeah, it made me teary. It hurt. I remember filming that and, uh,

It's, it's a, one of those things where the, the muscle memory, the visceral muscle memory of filming it came rushing back to me. Wow. And, um, cause we spent a long time in that room that day. Yeah. Maybe we had a lot of scenes in there. Yeah. But we spent a lot of time in that room and, um,

James and I had not done any scenes like that before. We had the one at the concert backstage, which was really just me giving a speech, and then he leaves. So the back and forth, the combative, like being a married couple, struggling, James and I had not done anything like that. Also...

James was very aloof and he still is. He's a very aloof guy. Yeah. It's one of the great things he has going for him too, you know. But he's a good poker face. Totally. Yeah. And so I never, I'm, you know, very, I'm a musical theater kid. I'm like, no, like, you know, these are my feelings. What do I have to do to make you like me? You want all my feelings on a platter right here? I'll give them to you. Yeah.

And James was always so poker-faced. And so I never knew whether he liked me or not. And I really wanted him to like me, just like as a friend. I just wanted to know that he liked me as a person. Approval. And that I wasn't hopelessly annoying to him. And so that was always going on in the back of my mind. So I remember when we filmed these scenes, it was actually particularly painful for me to have him rejecting me. Oh, no! Oh, George!

Yeah, because it tapped into a very real fear. You were like, he doesn't like me. And in this scene, you're behaving like he doesn't like me. Oh, no. It's so painful. Isn't that funny?

Wow. I totally get it. Because we do work in this world where, like, I would say most of the people that we work with are incredibly like, hey, let's be best friends. It's like puppies, right? It's like, let's just, like, you know, get in a pile and cuddle and tell each other all our deep-dark secrets. And because James is not like that, like, James is very sure of who he is and he doesn't need to project. And he's, like...

He's just different. There's a calmness to him where he didn't need the same validation that we did. And yeah, I felt the same thing, Joy, because I was always like, why don't you want to share secrets? Why don't we? Yeah.

We got into an elevator in Paris. I got an elevator with him and my au pair who had come out to watch Maria. And we all got in an elevator together. He gets off the elevator and my au pair, who's German, and they're very stoic. He gets off the elevator and she's like, he's calm. Yes. We're frantic people. We are. We're frantic. But I think...

think that was also why he he had such a good grounding energy for all of us because you're right that that desire to puppy pile that you talk about it's like it's summer camp it's camp friends it's like yeah we're in this cabin and we're gonna be friends forever and by next week you're gonna know everything about me and james was always he he would look at us you know what he reminds me of it's like the rancher who watches all the baby horses run around like

James was our wrangler. James was in Yellowstone. We were on One Tree Ho. By the way, he should absolutely be on Yellowstone. He should be on that show. But he was just very much like, all right, you psychos, run around till you're tired and then I'll feed you. And we were like, okay. Like, that's who he is. And he still is. It's like a, that's, yeah, we got to, you know what? The moral of the story is we need to buy James a cowboy hat.

Yeah, I'm down for that. We'll just send it to him with no note. No, he made smart choices too because he was like, I have my real friends. They're my friends from home. I have my little brother. And that was something that it took me a very long time to learn in our business is like a boundary is important. And keeping your home and your work life separate is a very important tool. And James somehow figured that out as a child.

So kudos to him, man. I appreciate it. I wish I'd known that sooner. Really nailed it. But God, isn't that funny? I've had that joy, that thing you talk about.

Like, Hillary, I even remember having it with you. Yeah, I'm a psycho, Sophia. I was totally standoffish and weird on our show. Well, but you went in phases because and then it was weird for me. Like even inside of our friendship, like we'd be doing these scenes where, you know, we get to the point where Brooke and Peyton are fighting. And I'm like, it feels personal.

personal though. It's not real. It's on the script but I feel uncomfortable in the scene and it's really it's breaking my real heart not my Brooke heart. Help me. Do you guys do that? I take it personally always. Of course.

Of course. Yeah. Dude, even like there's, there's, I have to remind myself to not take it personally. It's okay. It's okay. Because it feels real. Our job is to make the feelings on the page real. And I think when you finally learn that that can emotionally make you feel crazy, you learn coping skills, but like, God, there were days when we were shooting up in Toronto, we're like, Jason and I would be battling in these scenes. And then we'd, we'd finish the scene and I'd be like,

Jason Isaacs, it's me, Sophia. Hug me. I need you to hug me. And then he'd be in his sweet little British accent like, oh, darling. And I was like, I just need to remember in my body that it's not real. Oh, I love that. I love asking for that. Remember in my body. But we didn't know to do that when we were doing our show. You would have never said to James, this has made me very uncomfortable. Could you hug me because you're my friend? You would have never. Would you please let me know that you don't hate me?

Hold me, James. He would have been like, oh, sure. I don't hate you. Oh, my. A hundred percent. I don't hate you. And he would have rolled his eyes when he said it. He'd be like, but you look like you do. It's like, why? I mean, maybe that's an artist thing. Since I was young, I remember always being so paranoid, terrified. Every room I walked into that nobody liked me for no reason. Does that ever go away?

I don't know. Guys, I still feel that way constantly. Me too. I go to the grocery store and talk to a checkout woman for too long and ask her about where she got her nails done and also I like your hair and leave feeling like, oh no, oh no, I messed up. She's going to think I'm a psycho and then I'm going to wait for her outside in the parking lot.

on the way out, you're like, by the way, not, not single white female. Just think you're awesome. I'm sorry. Why did I say that? Like, yeah. Can I have your number? You know, it's the weird vacillating between, uh, be really being sincere and just like, I like you. I think you're cool. Well,

And then also the thing of perpetuating this, do you like me? Do you like me? And then people who are good at detecting bullshit. I've definitely encountered some of those people when I'm in a spin and I'm feeling like I need people to like me and they just are not having it. Not because they don't like me, but because they're not interested in my need for them to like me. Yes.

Does that make sense? Yes. Like they can tell that everything that I'm doing is only, is not really because I'm interested in them. It's because I am trying to get some kind of reaction out of them to feed myself. Okay. That is some major therapy growth right there. Can we just, I'd like, I have a desire to like snap for that. Like that's a big fucking deal.

Please, please, please. When you're like, oh, this is triggering my need for validation. Understood. That's some serious grown-up lady growth. Yeah. Yeah. Do we have to acknowledge when that happens? Yeah. Like, am I doing this really for you or is this really just all about me? And I need to just, like, allow you to have whatever feelings you're having, whether you like me or not, and just...

I can share my feelings for you genuinely and then walk away, but I don't need to perpetuate this like song and dance to make sure that you like me. And then I can walk away being like, okay, another, another person likes me. Good check. Check that off the list. What is the worst? What is the worst like fake fight you've had on a job where you have been like scared? It's real. Like, cause our show, we were babies. And so we didn't know how to separate fact and fiction fiction very well.

But like I played a mistress on a TV show that Toni Collette was the lead in and her husband was Tate Donovan. And so I was supposed to be having this affair with Tate Donovan. And I was so excited to work with Toni Collette. And she was just like, I'm going to need you to stay away from me. And she was so lovely, but like very professional, but also like we can't be girlfriends. And I just remember being like,

no oh no I've come off so hyper I've come off like the mistress you know because like my character had to apologize to her and be like oh my god I'm so sorry you're such an awesome woman and I didn't know and like I'm like oh no I'm perpetuating this in real life because I'm like I think you're so cool and I like your hair and also your shoes are really pretty today you know like

That was the weirdest I've ever felt professionally. Cause I was like, no, no, I swear I'm a normal person. I swear. I'm just playing a whore. I'm just playing the whore. Oh my God. I don't know. I'm, I'm really trying to think of, um, Oh, I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm just thinking about it. Cause I literally was just talking about it. But when we had that fight on the front lawn of Peyton's house, oof, oof, that would hurt that.

me up for a bit me too like i didn't feel okay no and and i think we both were like wounded and then didn't want to say it but could see it on each other's faces so we just kind of like you were literally wounded i cracked your skull like you had to go to the hospital we had a moment i was like something is wrong yeah um but yeah i don't know it felt oh it just felt so awful

We tapped into something like dark. Yeah, to like girl wounds. Yeah. To like the betrayal of the, you know, the first best friend betrayal you ever go through or whatever. And it just felt big and painful. And it was 2005 and no one was in therapy yet. So it was really hard to deal with.

That was a rough one. That's right. We didn't have better help back then. No, we had no like mental health leaders on Instagram sharing inspiring infographics in your morning feed. Wouldn't that have been amazing? Can you imagine if they had actually just made like Beth Crocombe maybe? Or somebody kind of like her who is just 10 years older than us, so still young and cool, but like clearly had her shit together. Just made someone like that our, like a guidance counselor on set. A check-in. Why didn't we have a guidance counselor on set?

Especially because there were so many big things we were going through and people treated us like grownups, but we were kids. And then we were like, well, we can't admit that we feel like kids because we're supposed to be the grown. We're, we're, you know, employees, like we're supposed to have it all together. So we just like fumbled around for years. Dumb. Do you think that in, in other professions, like,

Which we, I mean, none of us can really know because we don't do anything else. But I wonder if this is, you know, we think this is an extraordinary problem just for actors, but maybe in other professions, other people feel, especially young people coming out of college or going, you know, going into new jobs or internships, you know,

I mean, I wonder if kind of the pressure is the same everywhere. I think so. I think the public notoriety, like that's something else. Well, here's what I'm going to say. I think the pressure is very similar. I think the pressure of public notoriety is hard. And I also think the utter lack of boundaries in film and television. Like, yeah, when you go to work at an office, you're doing spreadsheets.

You're not doing like emotional scenes where you're fighting your best friend whose parent has died. Like that's not in the wheelhouse. Take your clothes off. You look good in that bathing suit. Yeah. Like that's not in the wheelhouse of a typical nine to five. Not to say people don't get pushed around and harassed and all the things, but you're not emotionally manipulating yourself in a group for your job with no guidance or help. Like, so I,

So I do feel like there are... I'll say I've got a lot of friends that work in healthcare and they do emotionally manipulate themselves because they have to compartmentalize in a way that we had to where it's like feelings. I can control these things. Well, yeah. How do you witness suffering every day and do your job? If you're a doctor, if you're a nurse, if you work in a hospital, yeah, you get real good at disassociating, which is not healthy for any of us.

The suffering person has to look at you and see a stable person. They can't see you breaking down. Well, to that extent, you could say hairdressers have to do the same thing. You know, so it's like you can find glimmers of this, of that same thread. Yeah. Like shadows of it. When you are taking care of other people, you are not allowed to authentically feel your feelings. And so, especially when you're a young person, it gets, you know, sloppy. Yeah. Yeah.

It gets sloppy. And so I think the nicest thing we can do is say, hey, your 20s are real sloppy. I sure love you anyway. 30s and 40s get way better, kids. They get so fun. Want to learn some of the stuff we learned? We'll pass it on to you. And we'll also give you a discount for therapy. You're welcome. That's right. That's right.

You know? Okay. Please cut to the ad right now. Oh my God. That's the best transition I've ever done. There's my directing hat.

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drama at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop better hydration today using promo code drama at liquid IV.com. But it actually is really interesting because thinking about this sort of tessellations of that expectation to serve the group, you see our characters grappling with it. You know, Haley made a choice for herself and is punished for it. And granted it was messy, but she's a teenager. What was she supposed to know?

Peyton is having a real hard time...

you know, not taking this family stuff personally and is struggling to express how she feels and has this conflict with her father because she feels betrayed. And Brooke doesn't want to get hurt. So she's putting up all these walls and boundaries and saying like, I'm in control of this, but really she doesn't feel good about it. Yeah. And all these kids are just trying to figure out how to get back to normal before they were heartbroken.

but you can't unbreak heart and so you're just not the same after a heartbreak as you were when you were like an innocent little freshly hatched chickling i'm gonna write a country song i'm gonna write a country song called you can't break a heart thank you please joy please write us that song um so i i just no matter what you do you can't unbreak a heart see look at you there it is win a grammy

But I just think there's something really interesting about that, not only in the landscape of our show, but in this larger landscape of talking about how even as grown women in rooms, sometimes we don't feel like we know what to do with our feelings. Yeah. I read a book. It's a novel. It's called Elegance by Kathleen Tesoro. I read it last year. What a name.

And it's about a woman who's getting out of a marriage and she's always been sort of rather frumpy and just not really given any much thought to her, what she puts forth into the world. She just shows up at work and does her thing and goes back home. And she gets a hold of this vintage book on elegance and she starts going through the chapters for what each chapter is for. And, you know, some of it seems quite silly sometimes.

how to match your handbag to your outfit and things like that. And then some of the things are deeper. And I tell you, I haven't been affected by a novel like this in a really long time because while I was reading this novel, I found myself so, I related to this character so much and I so wanted to slow down the way that she was slowing down as she was learning how to

not walk into a room and apologize for herself immediately. How she was learning to slow down. And I found myself doing it too. Like I'm like a ping pong ball around my house. If I leave something upstairs, I don't walk upstairs to get it. I run upstairs and get it. And then I run back downstairs to just sit back down on the couch where I was. Like I can't just walk.

That's why you have a great butt though. Yeah, that's why the butt's so great. Sorry, I just had to say it. Hey, thanks. But

I've been wanting to go back and reread it because I've gotten out of the habit that I was in. But during the month, it took me a while to read it because I was doing other things. But during the month that I was reading this book, I really slowed down and I really was taking in the appreciation for myself, for my environment. And it wasn't a vanity thing like I want to be elegant. It was...

I deserve to carry myself in the world in a way that reflects my value. And it's really beautiful. Anyway, I recommend it to you girls, but this just makes me think of that because we do bounce. We bounce all over the place. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. Yeah. From point A to point Z. And sometimes we just need to slow down. And that can be hard to do. And we're constantly worried if people like us or not. Do you like me? Yeah.

I really like you guys. I like you too. I like you too. Damn it. Can I say one thing about Haley? Yes. This is the first time this episode, I don't know why, I think it was something Peyton said. I can't remember. It was one of you two. One of you twos said something about, oh, like the choice that she, the choice that I made was,

And I think for the first time I'm realizing that Haley has always been a part of it. Oh, it was Peyton. Peyton was mad at Haley. She was telling Brooke why she was so mad at her in the apartment. But she's not really mad at Haley. She's mad at Ellie. She's mad at her mom. Yes, yes. But what she said wasn't totally untrue. And what I realized is that Haley actually has been a part of a unit her entire life. A family unit, all those kids, and then got married immediately, left her parents' house and got married immediately.

So no wonder she just was like, ah, I got to be on my own. I have to figure out how to be on my own. Yeah. Yeah. It was the first time I realized that with her. Anyway, I wanted to say that. I love that. Everyone needs that space, that time. Yeah. I agree with you. And I think that the way Haley came back not bouncing all over the place, you were very still and you were very quiet but firm and

It was a strong move because another actress could have been like, please, Nathan, take me back, Nathan. It's too much. I can't bear it. And you were slow and methodical about it. And you had to repeat yourself over and over again. And it never felt stagnant or stale. It was just firm and loving. And I think that's what anybody who, like,

Putting myself in Nathan's shoes, if the trust is gone, firm and slow and steady is exactly what you're looking for. It's like, calm it down. Let's remove the melodrama. Make me believe you. And it shows that she learned something and is sure.

And so this idea that she was always in a unit and never got to do something for herself, she went out, she went and had her hero's journey. She went out on her own. Ulysses. And she's sure. And that's very nice. And it's weird. As you're saying all this, Hillary, where you're like the slow and the steady, I'm like, oh, that's what Brooke is trying to get Lucas to teach her he is. Yes. She wants him to prove that he is sure. Yes.

By being slow and steady. I love the mirror of those storylines. It's crazy. I didn't see it until just now. But she's like, you want to, you're sure? Prove it. Yeah. Slow and steady. I'm going to test you. I'm going to push you. Let me see it. Yeah. I wonder if Brooke and Nathan are about to kind of be in the same place. Like, is Nathan going to test Haley? I don't know. I don't remember. Probably.

I don't remember either, but I'm deeply curious about it. Maybe that's what this episode is all about, testing love. Mm-hmm. Because Peyton and her dad, guys, I had no recollection of how firm Kevin Kilner was with me in those scenes where he's like, you can be mad, but don't you dare bring your mother into this.

And he doesn't hug her and he never tries to like smother her with affection or anything like that. And he sets a boundary. Well, in my mind, because Kelvin Kilner was someone who I really, really liked a lot. And we ended up working together later on white collar. I'm cool. Kevin Kilner is the best and has such good dad energy. And I guess in my mind, I thought we were all like warm and fuzzy and I,

Larry is not warm and fuzzy with Peyton here. And she's testing his love. And instead of doing the whole, like, I'm going to tell you I love you over and over again, he's like, knock it off. Yeah. You're being a brat. Stop it.

It's good. It's parenting. It's so strong. Yeah, it was hard. Parenting. But he's, I love Thomas who played my dad before, but Kevin felt like dad. Like I wish he would have come back for weddings and things because he was so good. I know. And you pointed out something so interesting when he first came on screen where we were like, oh my God, Kevin Kilmer looks so much like Brian Greenberg.

Daddy issues, honey. So much Greenberg energy. They always say, like, you know, you fall in love with a virgin or your dad. And it's like, holy shit, Jake Jagowski and Larry Sawyer are twinsies. Yeah.

Yeah, Peyton's got dad issues, mom issues, best friend issues. She has issues. She's just a regular high school girl, man. Peyton on her walls. I love that. You know what? This is the first episode. I know Peyton's been very artistic, obviously, the last few seasons, but this is the first episode I really remember seeing Peyton.

the art, the artistry coming out literally onto her walls. It's just pouring out of her everywhere she goes. I love that. The breaking the mold, breaking the boundaries, just like, yes, paint on my walls. I can throw whatever. Yeah. That, that,

That mural with those faces. Oh, my God. And the one, like, hypnotist wheel and the six billion. That is a sense memory for me. Yeah. Like, the hours we used to spend in that room. And we would, like, find a random face and, like, make up stories about that face in the crowd from the 1930s. Yeah. Oh, my God.

That's so funny. And we would like, we would like assign crew members we worked with to some of those faces and be like, that's you, Brian, or that's you, you know, like, yeah, we just stared at it for so, so long. And I don't know where that picture's from. Like, I don't either. I love that backstory. Yeah.

At some point, we have to have some art department members on the show because they can walk us through like the lamps of it all. We need it. That weird head on the desk. We've got to do that. I want to know where all that stuff came from. That was a really big deal, wasn't it? That moment when you painted that number on the wall and that quote. It's one of the most famous quotes of the show. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that stands alone in the zeitgeist. We've had a lot of people get engaged using that quote. Like, and people, like, use it in their wedding videos and stuff. Because that all you need is one quote is, like... I swear, that's Lady Gaga's. That's where she got it.

This is where she got it. It has to be. I like the ownership. Yeah. The repeat of her. She used that same quote over and over and over in all these different interviews. You have to Google Lady Gaga. All you need is one. All you need is one. Honestly, I'm down for Gaga to be a Wonder Hill fan. Let's do it. I wish. Ooh, that sounds fun. Does she want to come record with Red Bedroom Records?

She should. I used to get to hang out with her in Chicago. She's a babe. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. She's great. I love her. That's awesome. I remember texting Jenny being like, it's happened. Because, you know, my girlfriend Jenny, who's one of my best friends from Wilmington, you know, we used to like take a party bus down to Raleigh to go to Gaga shows.

when she was touring. So like, oh my God, I was like, it's happening. I've met her. We've achieved the next level in Super Mario Brothers or whatever the, you know, like it felt, I was like, this is insane. I'm in the matrix. Yeah.

Those moments are weird in life. Those level up moments where I'm just like, did I hit the right mushroom? And now I'm up here. What's going on? Like, what happened? You guys, literally, my son just got a Game Boy from the 90s. We went to like a vintage. Did he get Tetris? He got Tetris, but he got Super Mario Brothers too. And so he's like, it's like, it's like we're back. Because I hear that sound. Just like, whatever you say.

Like, Gus, what are you doing? He's hitting all the mushrooms. Go for it, Gus. You get those mushrooms. You get them. Guys, we have listener questions. We do.

Do you want to, should we read some of them? Yeah. Well, this one's like perfect. Beth wants to know who your favorite musical guest over your time on the show was. Oh. Yeah. I wish we'd had Gaga on the show. God, that would have been cool. Damn. That would have been so nice. So cool. Right at like the beginning of her like trajectory. Oh, it would have been so cool. Yeah. Damn. Oh,

I would have loved that. Did we ever end up getting like, I know you loved Peaches early on. Did she ever come on your show? Oh my God. I loved Peaches. Peaches. I know. Guys. We loved that fucking song. We would play that in the trailer and make people so uncomfortable. Over and over again. I loved it so much. Oh God. I forgot about that, Joy. I'm so glad you remember. Oh man.

Okay, so she wasn't on the show, but anyway, I remember that. No, I loved Grace Potter, man. I still love Grace Potter. Oh, I love her. Yeah, she's so talented. Yeah, for me, also one of the best. Like, there were so many moments that were cool, but she was just, she's like a mirage. Like, she feels like she came from another world. She's awesome. Angels and Airwaves, I remember, too. Yeah. I remember that time.

That felt so cool too because that

when they came on the show, we got to do that big USO show. And it felt so special to be able to kind of use the platform of our television show to go and throw a massive event like for the troops and their families. That was special. That's when I think a lot of us were like, oh, we could do stuff with this. Yeah. We could actually do good in the world or like at least, you know, interact with people on a... Yeah.

Yeah. More authentic basis. Like it's one thing to go and like sign autographs and shake hands, but it's another thing to put on a show and go spend time with the families and get to know people. And that was a, that was a really special experience. Jack's mannequin was another really great get, you know? Oh yeah. Oh my God. That was a fun one. Yeah. We were lucky. Yeah.

Anybody right now that you guys would want on? Like who right now would be? I know who you want. Pom Pom Squad. But I wasn't even going to say that because everyone already knows that. No, I'm trying to think. Who do I want now? That little chick is so cute. You know who I would love? If we were making the show right now, I would 100% make my friend Jack Garrett come and play. Yeah? Because he's just, God, he's just the best.

And like, I love nothing more than taking people who haven't seen him perform live to a Jack Garrett show. Cause I'm like, your brain's good. And I can't wait to watch it happen. I love when my brain explodes. Yeah. It's my favorite. What about Leah Leon bridges? That would be some, that feels real on, on brand. That'd be special. Yeah. Yeah. I'm hot for it. All right. What's our other question?

Well, Katie says, I want to know how much of how a line is said is down to the actor and how much is down to the director. Depends on the director. Truly. I will say, and we talked about this while we were watching the episode and as we're all...

in our late night spice, Brooke's one-liners are getting so good. I love them. So good. Oh, you've got the best dialogue right now. In the airport when Haley comes to the apartment. And I remember being so thrilled. Like the sense memory I had watching that scene when you walked in, Joy, and I went, I got room for you, but not a lot of pity. I love it. Oh, yeah.

I remember when we were shooting it and whatever that is, like I caught the rhythm and I was like, that's it. That's the comedy. And I forgot the feeling because it was 20 years ago and we watched the scene and I was like, oh my God. And you guys, we've just been laughing. Lucas at the airport. Oh, Lucas at the airport at the beginning was great too. Yeah. It was so funny. And these aren't for me. Okay, great. Like there's my cap. I just,

It was so fun. What did you say? Quick, quick, tell me you love me. Tell me you love me. Loved it. Oh my God. So I will say, I think like, yeah, sometimes a director will come and say, you know, put more of this under it or whatever. They don't tell you how to say something. It's like very, there's a big faux pas in our industry with what's called a line reading. If someone comes and like reads your line for you, they're emotionally fired. Yeah.

I actually don't mind a line reading. Really? If something isn't working and I trust the director. Yes. If it's not working, that's the thing. You have to let me try it. If I'm trying it and I'm not understanding what you're saying, just tell me. Just tell me. It's fine. Because if I can hear you say it the way that you think it should be said, then I can actually understand whether or not that's going to make sense for me or not. But if I don't really get what you're saying, if you can't,

communicate in a way that like, if we're just, we're missing, like you're saying it and I'm not hearing it for whatever, for whatever reason. Yeah. Then I don't mind. I don't mind the line reading. I remember, I remember working on white collar and you know, we had, I just come from North Carolina for six, seven years and I had to say some like business word and I kept saying it with like a Jojo accent.

And the director would just yell from behind the monitor, God, what was that word? It was, oh, it was something so stupid about like business contracts or some legal shit. And they were just like, where did you come from? In that situation, yes. Give me that line reading. Say it over and over again. Spell it out fanatically. Put it on a cue card. Sign it.

Oh, I love it. But yeah, I think that's the interesting thing. You know, directors rotate on TV and we're there all the time. So there's just something that happens in this season where you can really see everybody kind of clicking into the next level. And something happened particularly, because I'm reliving it now, like something happened with the way that

And I like clicked into Brooke's comedy in like a deeper way. And I would just read the scripts and giggle. I was so excited to say that stuff. I think they realized everybody else was weeping in the episode. Fuck, man. God, I just got so excited. I'd read these lines and be like, oh, I can't wait to say that.

I'm going to fuck him up with this one. This one's going to be really bad. Well, you did it brilliantly. You're so good. I love Brooke. I love Brooke more and more every day. Me too. God, I loved her. I get it.

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The suspense is killing you at home, we know. This week's most likely to is who is most likely to leave their neighbor It's not even a question. It's not a question of who. It's a question of when's the last time she did it. Yeah. When's the last time, Joy? In Charleston in November. When? When?

That cute guy in Charleston. We got a picture. He was spicy. I love it so much. She'll text us and be like, guess what I did? And we're like, we know what you did. We know. It's why we love you. We know. Every little detail. So if you were lucky enough to have JoyLens saunter into your establishment, you better...

Treat mama well. You might get a phone number on a receipt. Oh, yes. Never know. Okay, who are the characters? I think Brooke. Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. Brooke Davis, yeah. Brooke Davis would leave her phone number on a receipt and then walk up to the waiter and fold it up and tuck it in. Yes. They would not. They wouldn't be subtle. I agree.

But, you know, I like that about her. Love it. Well, guys, our next episode is season three, episode two, From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea. Wow. So dramatic. Well, this is just been a goddamn joke. I missed you guys. I love you guys so much. Missed you too. We miss you. Next time let's record at like four o'clock in the morning. You know, like. We'll let the fans figure out what we're up to. Our late night antics. Thanks for bearing with us, guys. All right. See you next. Love you.

listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time. We school drama girl about them high school queens. We'll take for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama Queen. Drama Queen. You can see those more

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