The Crockpot • EP113
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Okay, friends. We just watched episode 13, which I'm, my brain's still trying to process this episode. It's like all sorts of weird stuff happened and they didn't necessarily tie together. It's

So many levels. Yeah. I feel like this was the episode where there was all this stuff left over on the board in the writer's room. And they were like, OK, well, it's this it's the winter finale. We're about to go on hiatus. Let's just throw all the rest of the stuff into one. This is the day after Thanksgiving sandwich of episodes. The crock pot episode. It's hanging by a moment. It originally aired February 10th, 2004.

Breakdown is on their way to drive Karen home from the airport. Keith and Lucas have a collision with an oncoming vehicle, leaving Lucas unconscious and fighting for his life. I mean, that's like the last two seconds of the episode. Truly. And like so much other stuff happens.

Yeah. So this description can be a little bit misleading. Do we want to go back to the beginning of the episode? I really hope you guys are watching along with us because I like to get into the minutiae of this. And I feel like if you haven't watched it recently, you ought to join. Yeah. Yeah. Tune in with us. So how does this one start? Hold on. I got to go to my notes. I pulled up my notes. Wait.

So we really dive into Dan. We talked with there's a lot of Camilla, Whitey Camilla stuff that probably was supposed to be in the pilot and all that other stuff and never worked in. Well, the thing that's pretty crazy is in the last episode, Lucas and Peyton have this moment and Peyton says, ignore it. You know, it didn't mean anything. He says it didn't. She says, of course it did, but we're not doing this.

And then this episode opens up with everyone in the hallways walking between classes. And when the bell rings in the hallway, maybe it's empty, maybe it's not. Lucas just kisses Peyton in public at school. I have caught shit for, what, 20 years now for being a bad friend to Brooke. And, like, I guess because I didn't really pay that much attention to the episodes once they were all cut together, I just accepted it. I'm like, oh, yeah, Peyton's the worst. She's a bad guy. Yeah.

And now that I'm watching it and I see how much Lucas is pursuing the situation, I feel vindicated. I feel better about the situation. They're really switching places, Lucas and Nathan. Yeah. And I mean, Nathan even says it near the end of the episode. It was the first time that he ever said out loud that he had started the whole thing by messing with Lucas because he had been saying to Haley this whole time that

I'm a good guy. I'm misunderstood, blah, blah, blah. You know, he was manipulating a lot of it and never admitted it. So that was the first time he slipped and said, you know, so that makes her feel like the whole relationship is based on a lie. And I'm interested to see where that goes. Well, and it's almost like now that Nathan is finally showing up and stepping up and being a good guy, it's, it's almost like he's comfortable talking about what a bad guy he used to be.

Yeah. But it's the first time she's hearing it. And he he almost is proud of himself. Like, wow, I've become a really good guy. And and it's isn't it ironic that now Lucas is the bad guy and he doesn't even realize that he has revealed what his first motivations were.

Well, it's especially hard to stomach, too, because Haley just had a screaming match with Lucas about like, what are you talking about? You know, and he's yelling at her about the whole Nathan relationship. And she's like, this is apples to oranges, dude. We are not in the same boat and defends Nathan. So for him to turn around and be like, oh, yeah, that guy's the worst. And this did start off as a, you know, as a joke.

is painful. Lots of revelation. It's probably payback for you leaving him on the doorstep last episode with your... Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm glad Haley finally gave it to Lucas. Somebody had to give him a smack. That was so good. So good. Because you said everything we've been talking about and feeling that...

just the way he's behaving in this, the manipulation and the two time. And then he goes into a full gaslighting and tells you, you, the honest friend who's told him that, you know, who's really been there and who's, who's been frank about her feelings and all of these things. He says, you betrayed me, you. And it's like, what? It's so out of line. How,

I mean, this is a there's a level of it that's a normal human reaction. Our pride goes up when we're in a fight. We don't want to be wrong. We want to deflect and put it off on somebody else. OK, that's everybody does that in some form or another. There is another level of it when it's legitimate gaslighting and try to make the other person feel like they're crazy and there's nothing wrong, which I think

this borders on, like, this is a little bit beyond just defensiveness. This is a full turnaround of like, let's not talk about me. Let's talk about you instead. And what I think is wrong with you. Um, and I love that Haley just didn't have it. She wasn't, she didn't get caught up. I totally got caught up in those conversations in real life relationships all the time. Um, when things would get turned around on me and I love that Haley didn't, she was just,

I love her. I love her so much more now than I did when I was younger. Well, honestly, like when whenever Peyton was like kind of pursuing Haley as like, be my friend, be my friend, be my friend. It always felt like, OK, well, we've got we've got Brooke and Lucas in these scenes. So we have to find a way to get these two other actors in another scene. And so we're going to just smash them together and we'll see what happens.

Haley doing this kind of work behind Peyton's back and like calling Lucas out and saying this is inappropriate and doing things that a good friend would do without even them reporting back to Peyton for a pat on the back. Like that's what real friendships about. It's about doing the hard stuff.

and having those uncomfortable moments for the benefit of someone you care about. And it's not like Haley went and knocked on Peyton's door and was like, you conniving whore, you know? She took it to the person who's responsible because Peyton...

I feel like, and we said this when we were watching, I feel like Peyton would be okay to let this go. Like to just let Brooke and Lucas be a thing. Like we don't need to talk about it. I'm going to go paint in my bedroom and it's going to be unfun, but at least it will be solitary. Yeah. He's the driving force here. And for his best friend to recognize that and be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like you're driving this boat. Let's dock it.

Yeah. Haley's a good friend. It is totally, I don't know, validating that Peyton is like, please hang out with me, please hang out with me, please hang out with me. It's like she knows innately this is the person that I can trust. I love that. Friends, we all...

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started out with Whitey as kind of the main voice over the whole thing. And he had this wife that he would talk to all the time. And then by the end of the pilot, you find out that she's not alive. She's I don't know. I don't remember. Was it an actual ghost like a woman who was there? But she know an actress. It felt like the Wonder Years kind of, you know, like the narration in it.

definitely had like a wonder years vibe um and so to lose that narration entirely you know these scenes would take on a very different tone if yeah like while we're smashing faces in the library you hear barry corbin's voice like and then these kids camilla turns the sexy down a little bit

Yeah, totally. But it was nice to see a little bit of that. I, you know, even though it felt a bit haphazard and kind of thrown together, I still was really glad to dive into Whitey's own so that he doesn't just become a caricature of, you know, a device of a person. You know, he really...

got to have his own journey and we got to see his own emotional experience of being a coach and why he cares and, you know, things that he missed out on with his wife and how that affects Nathan was really cool, too. How old did they think Barry was? Like, can we just talk about the picture of Camilla? Because that's like a woman from the 1920s. World War I. Totally. Hi.

I'm looking at Barry. He's like, you know, 55 in this show. And they've got a wife that's, you know, she's a flapper. Yeah. Really funny, actually. Yeah. I don't know if this was intended or not, but maybe because, you know, we were watching this in order. It kind of felt like after that big crashing generational, you know, dinner of nightmares in the last episode that Barry, you know, that Coach Whitey was at...

I felt like watching all those families be destroyed by basketball, he was kind of, in this episode, taking stock of how basketball became such an obsession for him that in his mind he lost out. He wasted time with his wife. And I kind of

It was a little wobbly, but I saw an arc there from last episode to the mid-season finale. And I was like, oh, this is interesting that being witness to that is giving Whitey this moment where he's being introspective and he's letting Nathan in. Well, and then you see Deb leave Dan at the end of the episode. It's another marriage ruined by what? High school basketball? High school basketball. Yeah.

ruining everyone's life. So, so I do a charity back home with my high school. We were a huge sports high school. We went to States and football. Like I would say that going like that experience of cheering on the sidelines for like the state competition and like a college campus, it was like the biggest deal ever. And we were in the Washington post every weekend and all our players went to college and played. And it was such a huge experience. Um,

And then three years ago, my high school has become a Title I high school that doesn't have resources anymore. You know, it's largely low income and kids that, you know, apply for three meals a day. And so the varsity football team didn't exist. Like only like 16 kids came out because no one had cleats, no one had equipment, no one could afford camps. You know, there's a lot that goes into it.

And so we started this, you know, Project Patriot where we supply resources so that kids can do extracurricular activities. And just this last week, our high school won its first home game in five years. Oh my gosh, congratulations. Go Patriots!

I don't even know who we were playing. It doesn't matter. You know, like it, it's been this really cool thing to work on together with like old alumni. Shout out to Ashley Dawson and Tony Canonico. But cause Tony listens to this. He's a boy who listens to our drama queen. Hi Tony. Hi Tony. So,

I can see the good side of high school sports. I can see that camaraderie and that joy that it brings to the community. And the structure and the work ethic. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's like we made fun of the toxic parents when we were in school. You know, like you could tell whose dad was an asshole. And so I relish the chance in this show to get back to like what that good stuff is. Because I know we get there eventually with like the state championship and stuff like that. Yeah. But it seems like

for these first 13 episodes, it's just been like bad, bad, bad. Drugs, you know, drugs, fighting, you know, doing dumb stuff on the court, tearing your family apart. And that's not it. Like high school sports can be awesome. Did you, Sophia, did you have sports at the girls' school? Did you have like field hockey? Like what do girls do? Lacrosse. Lacrosse. Yeah. No, we didn't have that. I mean, we had, I know there, I think there was a tennis team. I know we had a soccer team.

I don't know. I played volleyball in junior high. Yeah. In junior high. And, but then I started doing theater and then I was like, see ya. And I was just like doing, doing plays and, you know, teching shows and stuff. I, I, I completely fell out of any of the world of athletics once I started getting really into doing plays. So it's funny cause I don't,

I didn't have an experience of sports at our high school. And I think that was actually part of...

When I was applying to colleges, I really couldn't decide. I was like, do I want to go to NYU or do I want to go to USC? Oh, my God, girl, you went from zero to a thousand. And I was like, I want to have that experience. And Joy, like even when you talk about Haley, you know, trying to figure out who she is, like for me, it felt like trying on.

a new costume. It was like, okay, I did the really academic, nerdy, all-girls school theater kid costume, and now I'm gonna go do the big, huge football games and paint our faces and, like... Rosebo Queen. Rosebo Queen. Like, that whole world was a costume. And, like, you know, I...

I was trying to figure out like where on the ends of these spectrums, where do I fit? What's my natural kind of post? And I really feel like that took me until I was like 30.

You were into sports. Like I feel like anytime we had like, like Superbowls and things like that, you were kind of at the nexus of those get togethers. I just love a hang. I love any excuse to throw a party. So if it's like, I'm going to host the Thanksgiving party with like all our friends and family, or if I'm going to Superbowl to me, I'm like, this is an excuse to watch really generally really creative commercials. I'm like, I don't care so much about the game, but you can get 40 people in a house and have good food. So I'm, I'm in.

I am a psychotic soccer fan. Like I'm a person who during the world cup will wake up at 4am to watch the women's national team play. Like I'm a lunatic about it. You're an owner now. Yeah. That's right. I'm the owner of a soccer team. It's so crazy. I can't, I keep looking around being like, who's the grownup here? And I realize it's me. And it's so weird.

That's so great. Joy, you had to actually do some sports action in this episode. Were you faking it? Can you throw a ball? Yeah, no, I'm pretty athletic. I always was when I was a kid. I had a harder time with team sports, just coordinating with other people. And it was more of the mental agility with team sports because I...

Oh, honey!

Team sports. I mean, my really only interaction with team sports, I think I joined a soccer team for a minute, but then I got to play and I was like, I'll see you guys later. And then I think I did the kickball and handball and hockey and gym at school. And I felt comfortable with it. It was just that I didn't know how to interact with other people on a team with passing the ball or knowing all the rules and everything. So I'm really good with

Like a single person, I kickbox, I can do tennis really well. I'm good at, you know, I can play basketball like one on one or whatever. But team sports were just hard for me. Yeah, so.

As the oldest kid, you know, I'd have to watch my brothers growing up. And so I was always like, oh my God, you won. Like I'm so groomed to let the other person win. Oh, that's funny. When I, I think that's why I liked watching sports because it was almost like,

I don't know, voyeurism. It's like, oh my God, look at those people who want this so bad. That's so crazy. You want it. I don't even remember shooting this, though. The free throw stuff. There was that one scene on the court when Nathan comes out and he's trying to teach me, not at his house, but out on the river court. And we were frozen. You can tell because we're both talking and our lips are kind of like staring.

And when your face doesn't move. Exactly. We were out there. Also, you couldn't lift your arms because you're wearing. I know, I was in 12 layers. So you wear like silks on the bottom layer. Right. So silks are, which they don't make anymore now. If you ask someone for silks, they're like, what? Did you know this? Yes. No.

Because I've been shooting in Canada so much, it's gotten to a point now where... Okay, so silks used to be made from silk, which was a particular type of elastic silk that was...

thermal layer under your clothes. So even in the cold, it would really trap in the heat very well. But I guess there's like a silkworm shortage or something. So it's really hard to find. You have to find like vintage silk. So now they have thermos, which accomplish the same job a little bit less well. Well, look, I'm going to start a silkworm farm up at Mr. Farm now that Joy is...

pointed out the void. I had a lot of layers on. It was that and then the, you know, whatever goes over it and then the T-shirt and then the long sleeve T-shirt and then the

The corduroy scarf and corduroy jacket. Oh, yeah. Let's talk about layers. Sophia has tripled down on the unsexy. Oh, yeah. Watch me. A turtleneck and I'm going to wear a scarf over said turtleneck. Your Tigger scarf. Oh, my God. You doing the Winnie the Pooh song killed me while we watched this episode, Joy. Yeah. That... You know, there's something so funny about it because...

I look so goofy in that little outfit. It's so sweet. It's so sweet because this girl just is leaning in and telling her best friend she's falling for this boy and starting to tell this boy about how she feels. It's like that scene where Brooke and Lucas go for the walk in said scarf when they have hot chocolates. Like, she can't even keep it in, you know? It's falling out of her mouth, and then she diverts and says she's talking about Karen and Keith. Oh.

And it's just, oh, it's heartbreaking. Yeah.

If Brooke is the real life Tigger of this show and Peyton is clearly the Eeyore, what is Hayley? What are you? Is Hayley, I don't know, is Hayley Pooh or Piglet? Probably Piglet. Yeah, that or the rabbit. You're the rabbit that's like, you guys are so stupid. You're making me crazy. I forgot about the rabbit. No, that's actually perfect. That's so perfect. No, Pooh. Who's walking around like an old dummy? Who's the Pooh? It's me.

Is it Keith? Aw, he's so... I just need a drink. He's so sweet. I mean, what an episode for Keith.

reminding us that Karen kissed him at the airport and he said it it wasn't just a friendly goodbye kiss it was a kiss kiss and you know Karen's been gone at cooking school in Italy for six weeks because Moira was off having a baby and she's finally coming back and he can't wait to kiss her again and he's taking Lucas and he has this whole conversation with Lucas about no matter what happens in you know Keith and Karen's relationship he'll always be there for him and they exchange I love you's and it's so sweet

And Keith gets distracted by Dan, who he's just had this terrible interaction with. And he does that thing, which I think we've all, I mean, how close have you come to doing that when you're at a light and it turns green and then you're like, oh no, my left arrow is red. I don't go there. But you start to and then you stop, you know. All the time. And it's that moment where you really go, oh God, it could have been me. Yeah. Yeah.

But the question was, how many drinks did he have that night? We don't know. I mean, I guess we'll find out when we come back. We saw one beer, but... But if he's, it's three hours out and he's having a beer three hours before he goes to get her.

Yeah, moral of the story, kids. Don't do that. Don't drink and drive. Just don't drink and drive. It's not worth it. Wow. Yeah, I mean. And pretty cool for Dan to be there and, you know, being there to rip the door off the car and pull Lucas out and have to stay because it's a life or death situation. He's my son.

That was a pretty selfless moment, even if you could call the heroics of pulling him out of the car selfish, because on some level, I'm sure that made Dan feel great. But being in the hospital, he didn't gain anything by saying I'm his father. There's also something so interesting to me about how a catastrophic event.

can immediately make you drop all your BS, all your nonsense, everything that you've been storing up and thinking. And you realize none of it's real. All that's important are the people who you care about. And it's like in that moment when Keith and Lucas get hit, Dan sees it.

And none of the other nonsense that people fight about matters anymore. He's there. He's present. And it felt like a sort of singularity point for his character. And he had to drop all the pretense and just tell the truth. Yeah. And that was wild. Well, and you said what you just said, the people you care about. And up until this point, Dan has been adamant. I don't care about Lucas. I don't care about Keith.

And Deb's just like caught him with beach whore. When we heard the term beach whore used in this episode, we all gasped and we're like, that's our next pilot. Like that's the show we're doing. Beach whore had a great episode. But Deb just gave Dan like a look that,

is heartbreaking and so beyond anger it was like it's fine this is it was and it was also everything i saw in her look was i knew i know you're an ass i know you're stubborn and you're selfish and you broke in and you have all these problems i have i've known it's difficult i'm working through it but i didn't know you were a cheater

And that's what, like, shuts everything down for her. Like, I was willing to put up with so much. But this? Yeah. No. This is black and white. Yeah. You know, this is clear cut. And so I wonder if that total, like, being alone situation is what put Dan in the headspace to show up. It's like, well, I don't have anybody else. Like, I don't have my son. I don't have my wife. Like, my son wanted to hang out with his girlfriend. You know, like... Yeah. Yeah.

these fringe relatives are the only people that he has left. And then what else happened? I mean, I'm still stuck on beach whores. That's the most exciting for me. Honestly, I made two notes this whole episode because I was so just like watching it. And it's Haley yelling at Lucas and beach whores. Those are my two notes. I love it. It's

Actually, let's talk about music, though, because this episode had two songs that I super loved. The Tegan and Sarah song, Don't Confess. Don't Confess. Don't Confess. Y'all, I used to drive around in my car listening to that Tegan and Sarah album on repeat, just weeping. Yes.

And every time I, every time I hear it now, I think of like the live oak trees with the moss hanging down on Market Street in Wilmington. Just driving up and down that strip, listening to that whole album, the on the nose of it all with the Don't Confess. Oh, but it was so good, especially because Brooke's having this moment when she's like, I want to remember this forever. Yeah.

And it was so well shot, whoever directed this, having you look at the stereo so that you could say, don't confess. And both of our faces were on camera and your face was turned away from my face. Chef's kiss. Beautiful. It also was a sign from the universe. I believe in signs from the universe.

Oh, same. Constantly. Have you ever had a sign from the universe in real life where you're like, oh, I shouldn't tell my best friend that I'm kissing a boy? No. Convenient. Also, the genius of Peyton going to Hayley and then Hayley saying, it's not like Lucas was dating Nathan. Yeah. That's so good. I was like, oh, God. Oh, God. Do you think that Hayley knows what she's saying?

Not in that moment, no. I don't think so. Hayley's the smartest character. Do you know what I mean? Now I would have read it differently. I think the way that I chose to play it was just distracted and oblivious. But I think now in context, I definitely think a more interesting choice would have been for her to...

say it that way and I wish I would have I thought it was a loving way for Haley to get that point across of like you don't you don't want this like oh I'm being your friend and I'm gonna say it in a way that is gentle for you that's much more interesting I wish I would have made that choice that's how I took it yeah I have to say I kind of saw it in the middle I felt like when you said

what's this about or what's going on? Whatever you said to Peyton and then Hillary, your response is, oh, it's friend of a friend stuff. I felt like Haley was like, what's going on? And then you're like, no, no, it's not about me. I just, I need help to advise someone else. And then I almost felt like you kind of got lost in telling your own story and then you crack a joke and

in this way that was sort of irreverent and that that lands so hard. For me as an audience member, I saw that like sucker punch Peyton and Haley was just like, I'm giving great advice in this moment. And I was like, oh God, everything is bad everywhere. Everything is bad everywhere.

At a certain point, I need somebody to get their knee off my neck, you know, just because it feels like every episode is... I think that's the title of our podcast episode today. Everything is bad everywhere. Drax. Did you guys also clock that Shin song, too? I had to look it up again because I love that song. Oh, remember...

Over the ramparts you toss, the scent of your skin and some foreign flowers. Do you remember this? Tied to a brick, sweet as a song. The years have been short, but the days were long.

You know this song. It was like huge in 2004. I mean, the shins were major. I got a friend of mine a baby onesie with the shins album art on it when they had a kid. Like, God, yeah. Huge. They were happening. We were getting like bigger and bigger bands on our show. Yeah, we were. All right, this is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer.

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Okay. Hey everybody, Scott Patterson. Uh, we are going to have a Milo Ventimiglia on the podcast today and we are dropping the episode immediately. We are very excited to have him. He's a, he's an old and dear friend and, uh, he gave us a, he gave us some time, which is, he doesn't have any time, but he gave us some time and we really, really, really appreciate it. So we're going to do this interview with Milo. Uh,

and we're going to drop it immediately as soon as we can get it all cobbled together, this crack team I have, and we're just very, very excited about it. So anyway, listen to my podcast. I am all in right now on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, and everywhere you listen to podcasts.

All right. You want to do a fan question? Yeah, let's do a fan question. Okay. Nicole is asking about the filming locations. She wants to know, was the show filmed in actual houses or built sets? Yes. Let's talk about that. Both. Haley's bedroom set. Haley's house exterior set.

House. Neighborhood house. I think all of our homes, the exteriors were actual homes and all the interiors were. Well, I. Well, no, Nathan's house. We were on. We were in there. Nathan's house. We were inside those people's houses. Peyton's bedroom was on set because we spent so much time there. But the entire downstairs and obviously like the exterior of the house were a real house.

that was right across the street from Haley's house, which is not something, you know, people who go on the tour in Wilmington know that, but we were the girls from the rough side of the tracks, which I think they should have played that up more. I think that would have been really cool. Because what we liked in the last episode is you turn around at Peyton's house and you see the house across the street and there's like weeds up to the second story. You know, like nobody tried to make it look posh or pretty.

Wouldn't it have been cool if like Haley and Peyton actually were like on the same street and kind of always saw each other and ignored each other or whatever and started to. Oh, yeah. Well, did you have people like that in real life growing up? Because I definitely did. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I remember singing a song to our German shepherd in the backyard and like looking up and seeing all like the hot middle school dudes walk by and being like, oh, I'm going to die. This is the worst.

But yeah, proximity was already built in with our locations. I don't know why we never played that. Lucas's house was a house too, the downstairs. His bedroom was on stage. What about how much of Brooke's

Oh, my God. We didn't see Brooke's house yet. Yeah, I saw it with, like, Felix once. We don't see Brooke's house, gosh, until we get later into the season. There's a big scandal. And you go into Brooke's bedroom for the first time. But there's no house. I don't think Brooke got a house until season two. But same, the exterior was a real place. And then we would use some of the downstairs rooms. But then my bedroom was always on a set. Yeah.

where that we were going to be with any regularity aside from the big Dan Scott house they would build on stage because it was just too hard to deal with when you could be in the houses you know getting the folks who live there out and comfortable and it's such a process

Yeah, it's really hectic for people. So they liked building sets so that we could kind of make our own schedules. Well, so for Peyton's house, in the midst of our shooting, the house sold.

Right. So there was no guarantee that they were going to let us keep filming there. And the young family that moved in was John Jeremiah Sullivan, who is a really accomplished writer. He's a writer for GQ and I think for like Rolling Stone, a bunch of books, cool guy. And so I ended up kind of making friends with them and I stayed in touch with him and his family. Their daughter was born like like they moved in when his wife was pregnant. Their daughter was born young.

right after we, you know, signed our agreement with them. And they were like, oh, we get to go stay in the Riverview suites for a couple of days here and there and make some money. And it pays our mortgage. Oh, no. What they didn't realize is that like our set dressing wallpapered the house the way we wanted it, not the way they wanted it. But they only went halfway up the stairs. So for like years, they had to live with the halfway wallpaper, which doesn't sound bad at first. And then you're like six months into your house and you're like, I

Oh my gosh. He wrote an article about it. I was going to ask. I remember that article kind of broke my heart. I really felt for them. It was a painful situation. And so as their daughter got older, she grew up with people in their front yard and on their steps.

And then when she was old enough to watch this television show that, you know, she's, she might be in college now or either she's like in late high school or college. Now she watches the show. And in the later seasons, when we get to the psycho Derek stuff in the basement for her to watch all of that, like trauma happened in what's supposed to be her house was so weird. So weird. So for any of you who go through Wilmington and like go by the houses and stuff,

These are real people and they're lovely. Like, please be so, so, so nice to them. You should leave like flowers and, you know, presents on their doorstep because they've been so good to our fan base. Yeah, it does. It does also feel worth repeating. I love and I know we all love that our show means as much to all of you guys as it does. It means a lot to us. Yeah. But Hillary, you just said the most perfect thing. These are real people.

I get like the tours and wanting to take photos, please do it from the sidewalk. Please don't just like walk onto people's front porches and lean on their front doors. And like, I've seen, I've seen some people who obviously mean so well, but like,

you know, who are kind of climbing all over these homes. And, and when, when the writer you're referring to wrote this piece, he talked about how terrifying it would be for his little girl to just have like strangers peeking in the front windows and outside her front door. Did they,

Did they try and sell the house and then couldn't because it was a TV show house? Is that what happened? That's what happened to the people who own Lucas and Karen's house. Oh, that's right. They couldn't sell the house. They couldn't sell it. Because there's always people climbing all over it. So I think it would be really loving if we as a community, as this great big One Tree Hill family, could kind of try to set a boundary and say, if you're going to go visit the homes...

Take pictures from the sidewalk. If you happen to meet the person who lives there and they say, oh, today you're welcome to whatever, take their lead. But just don't like, don't go climb on people's porches and say beep. You know, beep. Beep, beep.

Yeah, just be loving. And remember that, like, if you were in your house and suddenly somebody was peeking in your front window, you'd probably be pretty freaked out. So let's all lovingly do that. Yeah, I mean, people are really lucky they didn't get shot because let me tell you. It's the South! It's the South!

It's the South. It's the South. And also, like, if somebody's walking on my property, I got a BB gun. If you're looking in my window, believe me, I'm shooting your eye out. Don't even get started with me. I'm so Southern. Joy, I love you. Dude, you can't go to someone's house without bringing a trinket or a casserole or, like, a thing. And so, I don't know, maybe we need to have a toll, you know? Like, either you need to bring a bouquet of flowers or some seashells or some candles. Yeah.

Bottle of champagne, something. We should ask the people who live in each house what their favorite thing is, and then we'll publish a guide of like, here's the toll that you have to pay to go visit. We're going to do a toll just for energetic niceness. Because truly these families, they have put up with so much over the years, and they are so kind. So true. And I think that, you know, Jeremiah being

being so honest about the stuff that so many people probably never considered really opened my eyes and our eyes. And anyway, loving boundaries, everyone loving boundaries. All right. What's the next question? Okay. Um, what was something your characters went through or did that made you see your character in a new light and maybe even had a new admiration for, um,

Should we just stick to what we've seen so far in the first 12? Sure. That's smart. Yeah. Go, Joy. Well, I think what I've been noticing, as I just said, I love Hayley so much more now than I did back then. I think she was just all, the character of her was all tangled up with my young confusion of who I wanted to be and what I wanted life to be and how I wanted to play the character and what I thought was...

important to portray all those kinds of things like responsibilities to younger women and all that stuff. So now looking back at Haley, I love that she was just so ballsy and brave. And I think I always felt, I always felt really insecure. And then sometimes I would overcompensate that by being really stubborn because I didn't know who I could trust. So I just felt like, oh, I can't trust anybody. So I just, I'm going to dig my heels in.

And so I, what I love about watching Haley now is that somehow I managed to let my insecurities go to be her. And, and I just love how brave she was and willing to contribute to the conversation and confident in her own skin and all the things that all the best parts of her make me really proud of her. Haley is so incredibly likable and,

And everyone's being loathsome in different ways. And Haley is just like the voice of integrity. Yeah. And it's also really, I have to say, it's so fun for me to watch. I mean, to watch all of this with the two of you is such a dream. So thanks again to the fans for tuning in. But yeah.

But like, I don't know. I remember at the time how hard it was as just like 21-year-old girls, as our characters, as Brooke and Peyton were, you know, on either end of this big secret and this big betrayal and this love triangle. People were really mean to me and to Hillary, kind of in defense of each other's characters. And it was really hard. Baby, they still are. Well, yeah. But now we're...

we're grown ladies and we don't give a shit. But at the time I was really like, I didn't know what to do about it. And now I'm like, that's cute that you think you could love her more than I do. Yeah. LOL. But it's actually really cool. Cause I realized how insecure and, and kind of like bullied I felt as a young girl doing this show and,

Now, like, I don't know. I was so in the brook and patent of it all. I'm loving watching Hayley. I'm like, dude, I forgot. Like, there's just things I forgot. And to see her be so true blue, have such a clear sense of right and wrong, I think for so long, especially young women, we get encouraged to be like, yeah, but what was he feeling? You know, why do you think he might have done that bad thing? Justify it. Yeah, that's...

Yeah, there was a lot of, like, justify for love nonsense. And Haley was like, we're not justifying anything. And so now I'm watching her just being like, this is the friend we all deserved. Yeah, she's handling. And now the question is specifically, did the characters go through something? I mean, like I said, again, it's just...

watching the progression of all the circumstances that are happening and seeing how we know we're handling everything. But I think just Haley blossoming in this relationship with Nathan and, and being more comfortable in her own skin and discovering who she is and what she likes. And it's really fun to watch. What about you guys? Well, I just want to say it makes sense that the one with the parents and like the family unit is the one who is navigating the best. Yeah. Yeah.

It does. Wow. Yeah, it does. I, um, I have struggled with Peyton for a long time because, you know, she was vilified and I didn't really pay attention to why. And it was just like, okay, fine. You know, whatever. Um, and there've been some really sweet kids who listened to the, not kids, we're all like older now. Um, but people who listen to our podcast and who come online and they're like, just so you know, like I liked you.

So thank you for that. That's really nice. But seeing a girl who should probably be in therapy, seeing a girl who should have an aunt or an uncle or a grandparent or anybody check in on her and doesn't, watching her get manipulated by a boy, I never thought to

characterize the relationship that way because it does end up becoming the happy ending by the time I left the show. Right. But I think it's important to acknowledge that when we're kids and we're sorting out how to have relationships and maybe we haven't necessarily had examples of that, there are going to be mistakes. And Lucas is making major mistakes here.

Peyton's paying for it. Brooke's going to end up paying for it. But it never occurred to me before that it wasn't Peyton's fault. I think I assumed like I say I assumed, but I think Peyton assumed ownership of the chaos of,

certainly for me for like 18 years. And so to watch it now as an adult, like I'm watching it as a third person. It's not me, you know, the character or the actress. I'm a totally different human now. And I can watch it and be like, oh, bunny, bunny, you need a person, you know, you need an older lady to brush your hair and say, oh, no, no, no, no, no. So that's, I mean, that's the thing that watching back for me, I just feel this kind of relief of like,

It wasn't her fault. That's a relief. What about you? Yeah, I love that. It's interesting, you know, I have liked in these first 13 episodes seeing Brooke put the defense down a

The like how hard she pushes to be like charming or sexy or say the thing that's going to get the laugh. It's all about outside validation and like really trying to look like she has it together. Yeah. And, and seeing her get softer, seeing her admit things. I mean, even her saying on that hot chocolate walk and talk with Lucas, I'm not close with my mom. It would be really cool if I hit it off with yours. Yeah.

She is, she wants a family. Yeah, she just like, she wants a safe place. She's never felt safe. And, and I think it's really interesting to understand how, like you said, you know, people who don't have a family unit,

can suffer a lot. People who don't have a safe place, even with a chosen family, can kind of suffer a lot. And Brooke and Peyton have been each other's chosen family, but they're just two 16-year-olds. Like, no one can be the leader because they're both little girls. Oh, that's a great point. Yeah. Where's the leader? We don't have one. We're just, we're a team.

But, like, I don't know, we're out, like, trolling around like feral cats. We don't know anything. We needed, like, a cool, like, student government teacher. You know, like a cool chick teacher? Because I had cool teachers in school that definitely would, like, pull me aside. That was missing, wasn't it? Yes. Like, a cool kind of rock and roll vibe. Yeah. Like, like...

Older parent. We needed when we were all the kids at Tree Hill High to have the teacher slash guidance counselor that Haley James becomes. Yeah.

later in the show. We never had that. Yeah. Plus, back then, there was such a big separation between the parents and the kids with fashion. And it was, like, very clear who was, like, soccer mom's face and then who were the kids. Barber with her tan pants. But it really...

It really created a big divide, I think, between the adults and the kids. And I don't know what your experience has been, Hill, as a mom of, well, preteen, I guess. Yeah. Almost. But there's less of a divide. Like there's much more of a, I mean, maybe I'm just a really cool mom. You're a cool mom. Yeah.

It seems like there's less of a divide between the parents and the kids. It seems like, I don't know. Is that just my world? I think that we hang out with our kids in a different way than our parents' generation did. Yeah. Maybe that's what it is. We're the communicators. But I would say that when I was in school, the...

there were a number of teachers who were really young, like right out of college. So they weren't necessarily that much older than us. And that made it really easy to communicate with them. And so I wish that our girls had had a woman in their twenties, you know, that, yeah, that'd have been good for us on set to have someone a little bit older. And good for us in the narrative. Cause we were just floating. They wouldn't have known how to write for her though. Yeah. All the boys got to have mentors. What the heck?

They had multiple mentors. It's actually really interesting, too, thinking about how intense the divide was. Even with our wardrobe, something just clicked for me where I'm like, "Oh, but we were all 21, 22, 23," you know, aside from sweet baby James, who is 18 this first season.

you know, everyone playing our parents was only like 15 years older than us. They weren't actually old enough to be our real parents. Yeah. So I think they also tried to age them up in dressing them more kind of like parental conservative khaki. Like they didn't want, they didn't want Deb to be the cool mom because then everyone would know she wasn't that much older than us. Yeah. Right. That makes sense. That's true.

Well, Deb went through it this episode. Peyton and Brooke are going through it. It's a big, big episode. And it was I think this was our winter finale. So I think this was the the hiatus one that we come we stop like November. What you know, 24 or something and then come back January 17. These episodes that were airing in February.

Do you guys remember back in the first years of our show, we would take March off because every week in March was a rolling spring break. And the network had this obsession, I guess, or this some person there was convinced that if we aired episodes over spring break, the ratings would go down.

Oh, that's so weird. So they would take us off the air for all of March. Yeah. And then we'd come back on the air. Dude, I totally forgot about that. It was so weird. That's right. It was so weird. Well, now y'all can stream it. Now you can watch it in like two days. Just binge it. You can watch whatever you want. This is our March hiatus. And it's, we go out on Lucas flatlining. Flatlining.

Scary. As if the surgery wasn't like a dramatic enough point. They were like, we really got to go out on this button. By the way, when he shows up and the surgeon has to say, he takes one look at him and he goes, he's going to need surgery. I'm like, you haven't even examined him. You don't know. Maybe he's just got a concussion. He might be fine. He's dramatic, you guys. Calm down. He's going to need surgery. I mean, nothing against the actor, but he had to say that line. All right, let's do a most likely to, huh? Okay, let's do it.

Most likely to win Jeopardy. Oh, okay. So hold on. We have to find a character and a real life person. Would Mouth win Jeopardy? I feel like Mouth would win Jeopardy. Oh, absolutely. God, you nailed that choice so quickly. I also weirdly feel like Lee Norris would win Jeopardy. Yeah, actually, that's true. Don't you think? Yeah, that's right.

He'd really be focused. He'd be in like a great suit with a cool tie and he'd just be going in on facts.

I see it. Fine. As long as they have LeVar Burton hosting, I'm all for leaving on Jeopardy. You and me both. That's my dream. Yeah. Let's sign the petition. The more you know. That's it, folks. It has been a weird meandering episode. I'm glad you stuck with us through it because this was a grab bag of all sorts of emotional... Car accidents to be chores.

Awesome. Stick around. And next week we'll have more fun for you. And if you haven't bought your tickets for our live event, OTH Day.

Bring it on. We're going to have a blast. And I'm probably going to wear something inappropriate. Hey, wear that silver bikini from the Entertainment Weekly photo shoot. Girl, I'm someone's mother. Calm down. Beach horse. Beach horse. I like it. Should we all wear turtlenecks and silver bikini bottoms? Yes. Just to really confuse people? Yeah, that's our uniform. Sounds great. Well, we love you guys. Thank you. We'll see you next time. Love y'all.

listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time! Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.