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You guys, can we talk about how incredible our skin is? It is our protector while also being a litmus test for how our body is doing physically and emotionally. Join host Nicole Berry as she unravels the mysteries around our skin on the new series Skin Queries, a podcast brought to you by Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia. Nutrition, sun exposure, stress.
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their Samuel's Candy Shop website on Squarespace. We've all got some Squarespace business going. Rob, have you built a website yet or do we need to catch you up? No, I'm feeling a bit left out because I think I'm the only queen who has yet to use Squarespace to build a website. So adding that to the to-do list. Well, this drama king might need his own URL, but when you're ready for it, Squarespace has the tools you need to create your online profile and get this. They actually have a tool set to help you create and then sell your own online course.
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Hello, friends and listeners. Let's dive in. I cannot believe we are at the end of season two. I know. Episode, can you believe 23 episodes of season two we have watched together? We are now on season two, episode 23, The Leavers Dance. And...
Should we tell them now or do we wait? Tell them now. Okay, we're going to tell you now. Guys, we're so very excited. We may have definitely done some of our excitement prior to hitting record, which we were reminded by the nice people who produced the show to stop doing that. So I will repeat what I said before, which is that we have been loving watching this season and all of us gals have been so blown away
by none other than the iconic Taylor James played by the phenomenal Lindsay McKeon who is my god so pretty that it hurts to look at her and I'm looking at you on zoom and I can't believe this is your face what an intro we are so happy to have you here so fun to be here and to see more and more and more of you guys
Lindsay and I just got back from a fan convention in Paris. We had such a fun time. It was great to reconnect and just, I mean, I think...
it's always so moving. And I know you've had this experience too. So when you get to meet with fans and interact and hear their stories and, but it was also really nice behind the scenes to just get to reconnect with Lindsay who I haven't seen in a while. And so, yeah, when, when Hillary had to step out for this episode, I was like, please, please can we bring Lindsay in please? Cause she's so great. Such a wonderful actress. We have,
nothing but gushing things to say about you whenever you are on the screen. So it's long overdue. So thanks for coming. Thank you for having me. I'm going to keep you around forever. You're the best hype squad. Okay. Well, Lindsay, why don't you read the synopsis for us? Oh, I'm putting you on the spot. Go girl. I need my glasses for this. Okay.
Okay, guys, it's part two of the season two finale. Lucas continues to spy on Dan. Deb comes back from rehab to find out Nathan is moving home, but she has other plans. Peyton meets a mysterious writer named Ellie. Karen decides to take a leap of love to New Zealand. Brooke leaves for the summer, but not without Lucas professing his love for her with a goodbye kiss. Oof.
Dan's fate goes up in flames. This was a big episode. This was a big episode.
So before we get into that, I want to know, Lindsay, how much of this show have you actually seen? Why do you keep putting me on the spot? No, there's no wrong answer. We've all been saying since we started our podcast, we're all like, we've never seen it because we were working all the time. So we never have you seen it. Did you guys watch every episode together? How did that work? No, no. So we're seeing this for the first time. A lot of these episodes are seeing for the first time. Okay. Yeah.
Did you go back and watch your, like when your work came out, when the show came out, do you watch your work or were, are you just sort of like. Yeah, I'm sure I saw it, but that was so long ago. So long ago when we started, what was it? 2003. I entered that's almost 20 years ago. 2003 or 2005. Gosh, hush, hush your mouth. I know.
I mean, if I do say so myself, especially as we're all talking about the weird shades of red, our hair was dyed and like the Rachel green layers. I think we've only gotten hotter. We look better now than we did then. So hats off to us. The same. Haley has so many layers in her hair. That blowout was just like, it was like the stairs up to the statue of Liberty. There's just never ending layers. Yeah.
I love it. I love it. It's also so interesting because I know I was telling you this a little bit when we first jumped on the Zoom, Lindsay, but for us, it's really wild. You know, looking back at a show that was made in the early aughts that was a teen show about high school, largely centering on these young women, but written mostly by older men.
there's stuff that can be a little tricky. Things that now as, you know, producers and directors and women who are more in control of creative, we see in ways that when we were all babies on our first show and we didn't know what was normal and what wasn't, we didn't really know back then, like in season two. And something that has been so striking to us is that
They brought you in to play Taylor as, you know, a foil to Haley as a potential wedge in this relationship. You had some very, like, stereotypical, like, the vixen who comes to town to cause trouble stuff. And every scene that could have felt...
like a caricature, you put layers in Taylor that made it clear that this was someone who had suffered, who was acting out of pain, who was really struggling with what the world had told her she was and was she going to believe it or not. You layered her. But it's wild to watch. Again, because we read the scripts and we'd be like, wow, this is wild. But
To watch the nuance that you put in a performance that I think...
We've seen a lot with no nuance on other shows. I'm trying to be very diplomatic. But it's like, anyway, I just realized that this is an episode that Taylor's not in, so we can't gush about you to you. So I just want to repeat all the things we've been saying about you when you haven't been in the Zoom room with us, because we've all just been like really blown away by you. And it's been so cool. Yeah, you brought as many layers to Taylor as there were in Haley's hair.
Well, I think you're ridiculous. Oh my goodness. Oh my god. How did you get the role? Like, do you remember when the audition came? What were you doing at the time? Like, give us some backstory. I think the only thing I remember about auditioning was where-- like, the location it was on the WB lot in one of the trailers. Like, that's literally the only thing I remember. And then the idea of like, oh, I booked it, you know?
And for me, it was so funny because I was like reading like Sophia Bush is on the show and we went to preschool and kindergarten together. Oh my gosh, that's right. Yeah.
Our history, like... What's the pencil story? It's very weird that we all, like, keep ending together. It's so weird. Isn't there a story about a pencil? Why is that in my brain? Oh, yeah. No, Lindsay and I, like, as little kids, fully got in, like, a playground fight. And... And over, like, a toy.
Well, by the way, I find it to be hilarious. I thought it was funny because my mom recounted the whole thing to me. And I remember being so enamored with you and your mom because your mom was an actor and was doing huge national commercials. And I was like, wait, the girl I got in a fight with is the same girl whose mom did the... Wait, what? I remember this. I was like, we were
I don't know. I so don't remember it. My mom didn't remember it. I even went to the school and was like, do you remember this happening? They're like, no, I don't remember that happening. I was like, I thought we were best friends. I don't remember stabbing her in the face. Oh my God. Well, by the way, I genuinely thought it was so funny. And then, you know, we had some very petty, shall we say male ADs on our show who like, I don't know, we're weird about it. And I was like, why is everyone else being weird about it if we're not weird about it?
But yeah, the world is very small. And I also just find it hilarious that like, I don't know, apparently we got in a fight over a Fisher-Price toy or something on a playground. Like what? It's so silly. I remember a lot of like male, young male guys like hitting me in the head at that school. Someone hit me in the head with like a plastic pitcher. I was like, oh, it was like fight for your life on that playground. Holy shit. Yeah. Do you remember? This is Pasadena.
No, this was in LA. Oh my gosh. This was off of Fairfax. It was a school called First Lutheran, which by the way, it was like run by nuns. Wasn't it? No, it wasn't Little Red Schoolhouse. It was, shoot, why am I blanking on the name? Fountain Day. Fountain Day. You're right. You're right. Oh yeah, that's still around. So yeah. And maybe it was like a, that was the denomination. I don't know. I just remember like
I remember my favorite nun at the school was Miss Mary who taught us swim. Do you remember her? And she had like the fun. The name sounds familiar. I do remember doing swim. I remember there was this teacher that like got super angry at me and another guy. I really liked like my boyfriend, Bobby at the time. Oh my God, Bobby. Remember Bobby?
Remember when Bobby taught all of us what the middle finger meant? Because he had older siblings. Oh, my God. Bobby was bad. Bobby was a bad kid. I got in so much trouble. I went home and I flipped my mom off. And I was like, what's mean? And my mom was like, fuck.
She was so angry. Bobby was like, if you could do an East Coast guido in a five-year-old, that was Bobby. Yes, 100%. His hair was always slicked back, and he was such a little boy. Yeah. He had Brylcreem at home. He's just ripping it into his hair. He loved to gel that child. Anyway, I remember, yeah, for the most part, loving all of our experiences there and just...
I remember when your mom would like come to pick you up from school and we'd be like, what'd you do today? Like we all just wanted to know, you know, what cool thing she was filming. When you saw that Sophia was on the show, was that like, was it like, oh good, I'll get to see Sophia again? Was it like, oh, is it weird? Is it going to be weird? Like, how did you feel? No, I was like, oh cool. We were like besties in preschool. Like this is so fun. Great. Love it.
And then I heard a story about the pencil from the crew and I was like, wait, she hates me? This is funny. Why is everyone searching for drama? Honestly, I think people were so bored. There was nothing to do. And I think like Ian and Billy just wanted to stir up some shit.
And I was like, I'm confused as to what's happening here. And then I remember feeling weird because for the first many episodes you did, we never had a scene together. So I never even really got to see you. There was like one night we all went to a bar and I was like, I feel as though a wedge is happening and it's not either of our
of our faults. I feel like I was robbed now that you say that. We never got, we didn't really get Taylor and Brooke together. Like what a dynamic duo that would have been on screen. Those two energies, what a force. It's like everything that we wanted. The hurricane that would have been? Yes, because-
scared of us together because like Nikki and Rachel were such clear villains but Taylor wasn't Taylor was like a complicated girl but you know she had all that lively energy and she had a little bit of that vixen in her but she also had this like she had this vulnerability and I think there was a very similar thread with Brooke in that way on different levels but
we could never really get that Brooke partnership of matching energy with Nikki or with Rachel because they were just so bad and that's not who Brooke is. That would have been really fun. It would have been really cool. And I think there could have been...
Like in my head, I see it almost like an old Western duel. Like when two people are like, there's only room for one of us around here. But then they could have wound up being like great friends, you know? Yeah, that would have been great. They robbed us. They did. They did. It would have been fun. We've really realized I got robbed in season two. I got robbed of a Taylor storyline. I got robbed of making out with hot Uncle Cooper, which by the way,
Hey, Lindsay, have you heard this? Michael Trucco just dropped the bomb on us that the writers pitched that Uncle Cooper and Brooke Davis were supposed to be a couple. And I was like, I was robbed. That would have been so fun. This has been a season where I've been thieved from. They should have ponied up. They paid him more on Battlestar. He had this offer for two shows.
They didn't pony up. I know. You know, they sure didn't. But with the connections that you got to build on the show, because you guys worked together on Guiding Light before, right? We didn't, which is crazy. Oh, is that just a rumor? We played the same character. She played it first. You were the baby, right? No, wait, you weren't Michelle. You weren't Michelle. You were Mara.
Right? Yeah, I was Mara. So you were Brittany Snow's character, I think. No, no, that was Susan. Who played Mara? There were other girls. There were a couple other girls, but Mara was younger. Laura something. Bundy. Oh, yeah, Laura Bundy. She's so talented. Have you ever seen her on stage? No. Oh, my God. I just saw her do Sweet Charity in L.A. a few years. I mean, like, she just, she's so talented.
unbelievably talented. Anyway, Laura Bundy, go look her up. Laura Bell Bundy. Okay. Wait, but how did you guys ever work together? No, no. We were on the show at different times. I don't know if you came on when I left. I think maybe you came on when I left. Cause I left in 90, no, 2000, 99, 2000. Yeah. And I was probably 2001 or something like that. Yeah.
Whoa. We just crisscrossed. I played a different character. Were you born in New Jersey? Yeah. Well, I lived in New Jersey. I was born in Florida, but yeah, I lived in New Jersey for most of my life. I was born in New Jersey. Where? Summit. I always find Jersey people. You know, my mom's a T-neck girl. That's why I love your mom so much. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're all Jersey girls or Jersey adjacent. Yeah. Jersey adjacent. I was in Bergen County, so we grew up in Waldwick. Hence the fighting on the schoolyard. I love it.
Yeah, it fits. It's all, it's fucking Bobby. I just want a t-shirt that says we blame Bobby. So you guys didn't work together on that show, but obviously like knew of each other. Do you feel like when you first came to Wilmington, Linz, like, did you guys bond quickly? Did you, did you go on like a walk to create a sister backstory or did it all just happen on set?
I don't know if we knew of each other when I first got on or if we found that out during the duration of our time together.
Joy was always just so nice and welcoming, honestly, probably the most welcoming person that I experienced at the time. I remember though, like we did not sister bond because back then I was complicated, like Taylor, like not as crazy as Taylor, but pretty complicated and.
And I just remember Hillary, you were so sorry, not Hillary, Bethany. You were so sweet, but I just remember you asking me like one time if I wanted to knit with you. And I'm like, you're asking the wrong girl. That is gorgeous. Oh my gosh. That is gorgeous. I remember when you came on.
Everybody calls me joy, by the way. You called me Bethany once at the end. No, it's confusing because we haven't talked to each other in a while. And, you know, so I get it. I have other friends who I have other friends who I talk with kind of frequently that still like call me Bethany. I'm like, whatever, I'll respond to whatever. Apparently you like that better. So that's why. All patterns die hard. Friends, we all.
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I think it's no secret to listeners of our podcast that we all love Squarespace over here because our lives are pretty chronically online. And I'm going to tell you, I needed a website and had absolutely no idea how to do it. And Squarespace made it really, really easy for me. And I sort of feel like if, you know, my all over the place creative brain can manage to actually make a real website all by my lonesome, anybody can do it. Wouldn't you say? Yeah.
Listen, I wouldn't sell yourself short, but it is helpful to know that if you could do it starting from scratch, then maybe there's hope for me when I finally decide to build my own website. I can't wait.
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Yeah, I remember when you came on that I remember being really impressed by how talented you were. And that always that always kind of wins my heart. I think as an artist, when I am working with someone, I am immediately drawn to people that I really feel a combative is the wrong word, a
When you're playing with each other, you're bouncing things off of each other. And it's like a... Like banter. Yeah. It's like a choreographed street fight in the scene. And whatever I threw at you, you threw something back and then I could throw something back at you. And it was fun. And I loved doing that with you. And so...
And then there was an immediate respect of, oh, I really respect this person because she's really smart and she's in the moment and she's an artist that I can relate to. And then I also could sense that you were going through some stuff just in your personal life, which we all go through seasons of that. And I was too. And I think it was just, it just made me kind of, I don't know, just, I wanted to connect, but I also didn't want it to be
There's also a part of when you have to play really, when you do have to play specifically combative characters, you don't always want to become really good friends. Sometimes it's helpful to like not know the person too well so that you can be honestly in the moment without feeling, I don't know. I mean, I guess I could go either way because I could still do that with my best friends too, but yeah.
I don't know. I feel like I'm babbling now. Someone save me. No, you know what's interesting about watching you guys talk about that kind of energy? I remembering that year feel exactly the same way. Like we were sort of all treated like we were grownups, but we were all 22 years old and like trying to figure out our places in the world. And everybody had a lot going on behind the scenes. And I remember like,
Even with kind of how weird some of the energy was with some of those boys on set being like, ah, I don't have the skills to know how to address this or, or, or bring it out or talk about it. I feel weird. I feel embarrassed. Like there, there was a lot of,
our youth and our inability to navigate these grown-up situations while everyone was treating us like we were supposed to be grown-ups that I think made us all just go like you'd throw something in the middle and be like do you want to knit or like do you want to go for a walk no okay forget I asked and then we'd like run the other way and we were on an island in North Carolina like you know totally beautiful and awkward when when you say um you know
You were in a moment of transition.
as I think, again, many of us were at that time, and we didn't know how to talk about it. Did that let you kind of put some of your personal depth under Taylor? Like when you read the script and found out, okay, troubled older sister kicked out of college, big reveal that she hooked up with Haley's husband, like, oh God, how am I going to ground her? Like, how did you begin to approach Taylor
this person because you put a lot in her that wasn't on the page and then eventually they wrote for it. Yeah. Yeah. I think honestly, back then it wasn't even that complex inside of my brain. I think I was just, it was something natural for me to like play into and then also like be seen and be vulnerable in that. Um,
is how like you guys got to see Taylor. And then as I came back to it older with more life lessons, more awareness and had the scenes with Lydia and the sisters and got to actually like break down and show why Taylor is the way that she is, you know, and expose that a little bit more. I think that's when I really like thought about it and had awareness about it.
Well, that's the testament to what a good actress you are, that you're just so in the moment that, you know, you just show up and it comes out of you regardless of, you know, whether there's been a lot to work with so far or not, you know. I, God, I wish you were in this episode. That would have been really fun to see. See Taylor. I think Deb sort of took over the, the, uh,
mischief role in this episode, but I think we have to get to Dan first before we talk about Deb. I don't know if they're really... Well, okay, yeah, let's start. Should we start with Dan? Should we start with Dan? Let's start with Dan. Dan? Okay. I had so many... I was so confused during this whole episode because I was like, why is he...
Why is he doing all this stuff in front of an open window? And why is like, why are people stalking him from like directly outside the window where he can see them in their car? Like, it's just so dumb to me. And I kind of had that. Like, he's not going to see Lucas sitting in a car in the center of the dealership. I know!
And he told him the deal. Like I own the security company that installed your cameras. And yet Dan still opens up his safe in front of the camera. It just all seemed so choreographed and I just wasn't buying it. And then we find out it was choreographed. He was building an escape game, escape room for Lucas for Lucas. And, uh, and he, Lucas failed of course, cause Dan once again, outsmarted everyone. Um,
But he outsmarted everyone in the dumbest way possible. I know. Like, I just couldn't believe that Deb wouldn't know that she owns the company and she would be taking that risk. Like, why was that a surprise? She's such a smart woman. I didn't get it. She should have signed something at one point, right? With her name on it. Maybe she forgot because of all the pills.
Maybe. I mean, because it's been so long. Like, Dan got the, as the story goes, Dan got the loan from Deb's parents, I guess right after high school or, you know, when he quit playing ball midway through college to start the business. So, you know, that's at least, what, 18 years ago or something? But,
be the first time in history somebody's owned a business and someone who was a co-owner or technically working for them or whatever did shady and then the owner of the business had to you know report them
Yeah, was liable or something. I don't know. Why wouldn't she just go to the police and be like, this was happening without my knowledge? He would make it look like it was with her. I mean, that's the point is what it really plays into is this overarching theme of he does the work to entrap people. And I think that's what was so surprising. You know, for our friends at home, the three of us, while we watched this episode today, were just kind of shocked at how overtly
abusive and scary it is. You know, to watch a woman, a character like Deb, say we have to get out and then not know that she'll be able to, it kind of gave me chills at moments, you know, because...
especially in more recent years as we've had conversations in society about why women often can't just leave. I was like, my God, we really leaned hard in these episodes into a controlling husband storyline in a way that I was like, oh, this doesn't feel like entertainment to me. This feels really dark and scary. It's real. It's very real. And they've been building up Dan's...
I don't know. A dastardliness is a, is a light funny word for something that's much darker, but they've been, they've been building up the vileness of his character. Maybe it's more accurate over the last, I mean, you guys didn't see the last episode, but that was the one where Moira, Karen goes into the office to yell at him about something. And he, before she walks out, he grabs her and like kiss, he forces her to kiss him.
And, and then she, you know, she of course picks up a chair and throws it through the giant glass window. But yeah, there's just been a massive, massive pattern with him. And it's, it's alarming that Nathan and Deb are even having a conversation so casually about it. Like dad's never going to let us go. I'll find a way out. But yeah,
It's not a hushed, dramatic, scary conversation. It's just, it's like daily just conversational. It's their life. And that's what's so disturbing about it, that it's so normal. Yeah.
I wonder if they wanted to push further and further into that disturbing energy because they had the plan of setting the dealership on fire at the end of the season. Yeah, they had to make us hate him so much. They had to make everyone hate Dan so much that people would be happy to potentially...
you know, see him injured or die. He's like, you're a demon at this point. He's gone through a heart attack. He'd like died and came back to life. Basically. He's had so many chances where he's come back and been like, I'm a new man. And then nope, nope, nope, nope. So yeah, I think he's like, he's outrun his, uh, his nine lives. And, uh, I mean, as we know that he doesn't die, but yeah,
25 lives. Even Whitey hates him, but we couldn't figure out why. It was so weird. I was so confused as to why Dan said he was going to get Whitey kicked out as the coach because he meddled. I'm like, but what did Whitey do? He showed up to greet Deb. And then what? Like, we didn't see anything. He took her on a walk, but we don't know what happened. Did they cut it out? That was a miss. That was a miss to not know what happened. Yeah. Exactly.
What'd you say? It was the next season, maybe? But it was just, yeah, it probably will be revealed. It must be revealed. Unless there was a line of something. I mean, what? Joy, you just sounded like a radio announcer. It must be revealed. Come back next week. It must be revealed. We're going to see what happened.
Yeah, that was pretty strange. I mean, it was a very exciting scene. Dan and Whitey over the table in each other's faces like two old cowboys just yelling at each other. But I didn't know what was going on. We were so surprised by the rage. Yeah. And I thought Whitey might have been the one who in the end was poisoning Dan. I love that trick. The poisoning...
Ooh, and a scotch. Here's a weird... For everything you've done. Everything you've done. Ooh. This is a really weird piece of trivia, but I think I texted you and Hillary about this the other day. So that...
The woman in the like 1700s in Italy who was selling beauty products. The poisoner. She was selling beauty products, but they were actually tinctures and powders and things that looked like a compact for powder, you know, back then, but it was really powder poison for women to poison their husbands. Oh.
And she had this whole ring of women who were selling the product for her and going out. And so the men thought their wives were just going shopping for beauty products and coming home. But then there was this like massive scattering of dead husbands throughout the Mediterranean region. Hey, the abusers got what was coming to them. Yeah, apparently. What a story. I know. So Deb jumped on the train of a legacy long...
What country was this? In Italy. Italy. Wow. She was using, what was the poison? I'll go find it. I can't remember. We'll send you the article. It's fascinating. Oh, it's super interesting. But yeah, for sure it was Deb. I thought for a second maybe it was Keith too at the dealership at the end. I think it's Deb. I think it's Deb too with that black leather. Only Deb would put black leather on.
Yeah. Especially because they gave us the misdirect in the Dan and Whitey fight. Whitey is like, you're going to burn. You know, they want you to think it's Whitey, but it's not. It's too obvious. And I think especially Barbara has such a beautiful opportunity in this episode and she plays the scene so well, you know, coming home and realizing it's more manipulation on Dan's part and
And for her, that line in the sand of Dan told Nathan it was all his fault. It's like there's nothing she won't stop at to protect her son. Yeah. And it's really interesting, you know, her talking about being very clear for the first time. She's determined in a way we haven't seen before. Yeah, for sure. She feels a little more empowered. She's like the Italian poison lady. She is. She's ready to go. Yeah.
Yeah, she's following a long tradition of poisoning wives. I love it. I love it. I thought she was beautiful in the episode. I also thought James was so good. He does this thing sometimes where he really does feel like a 16-year-old boy. He leaned into... He was! I mean, yeah. It's like two years from being 16. Yeah, that's probably why. But he would really lean into that
like young boy kind of combination of anger and hurt. And he was never ashamed to show that, to be vulnerable like that. And you see him feeling like his world is falling apart. He has to move back in with Dan. You know, he finds out Lucas has lied to him. He finds out Haley has sent the annulment papers. It's all just painful. And like early days, Nathan kind of comes out
Yeah. Where he's got boundaries, he knows how to stand up for himself. He may not have known how to use those boundaries before, but he's growing into his own as a young man. It's cool to see. I love that for Nathan. Yeah. And when he's in pain, it makes you sad. You're like, oh no, not more. Not more for our guy. I'm just asking our producers what the Tennessee Williams quote was because...
I'm liking the quotes that we're having on these episodes. The last one was the George Bernard Shaw quote that said, there are two great tragedies in life to lose the desires of one's heart and then to gain them. And I like this Tennessee Williams quote too.
Which I'll tell you what that is in a second. But I think it's kind of fun to talk about the concept of what these are. In the meantime, Brooke. Can we talk about Brooke? She had the best dialogue in this episode. You had so much fun. It was so fun. I really did. Okay, Brooke. Was this the first appearance of Hoes Over Bros? I don't know. I don't know. It really might have been...
Or maybe it just hit hard. We're going to need the fans to answer that question for us. Part of me wonders if when Brooke invented the selfie in season one with the Polaroid camera, I'm going to hold on to that really forever. If she said it to Peyton, I don't remember. But we all, when we heard it, went, oh!
Brooke, I mean, she had, okay, first Lucas, then Jake, now Nathan. I guess slutty is in season. Funny. And then because I'm leaving tomorrow for the summer, maybe forever, and my best friend is having pseudo-indocent foreplay with kind of married guys. That was great. Which is kind of a fun tie-in with her walking in on, you didn't watch this last episode, Brooke and Lucas came to New York to see Haley and they walk in and she's on the couch doing the exact same thing that Peyton and Nathan were doing with Chris. Yeah.
Like getting giggly and tickly and stuff. And then this one, Phantom Feelings, like when you lose a leg and try and scratch it. Lucas was my gangrene-infected, amputated leg. I really loved it all. I loved when they gave me that kind of comedy to work with.
It was just always such a blast. Well, what I loved is in the end when Lucas kisses you. That did surprise me. That was a nice surprise. It was a really good scene, especially after how intensely uncomfortable the dream sequence was. Oh, God.
Because we all, you guys, we all forgot that that was a dream. And so we're sitting here going, this is ridiculous. What guy wrote, what a fantasy. She's in her cheerleading uniform. Like we were so mad. And then we were like, oh yeah, because it's a teenage boy's dream. Got it. Cool. Okay. And so it made the scene between the two of us, between Brooke and Lucas so sweet.
Because you'd seen this very overtly stereotypical dream. And then the hilarious comedy of like the cold shower and they're bickering almost like siblings because they live together at this point. And then the vulnerability in the end was surprising and I thought was so...
He did such a nice job in that scene. I just really, he felt very real and authentic to me. And I really liked too, watching you start the scene in a really happy, funny, playful place and then have that immediate switch into something really vulnerable. I always love when actors do that. It's fun to see it because it's like it's happening in real time. So great. Yeah. And it's interesting because it felt like a big payoff for,
Brooke is growing and learning to be more in touch with her feelings and more responsible with her feelings. And she really is trying to
put on a brave face for everyone, thinking that Lucas still has feelings for Peyton. She kind of offers that up to Peyton. She's really trying to lean into, this is the lesson, and that wasn't good for me, and it really hurts, but I'm going to grow from it. It's so much effort for a young girl, and then all of her sort of strength, the mask she's been putting on of like, I can handle this,
He pierces that when he kisses her in the end. And I was surprised, you know, not remembering the episode at the, you know, the reaction to it, how much it threw her. I was like, oh, I like this. I like the way we played this.
Can we talk about how incredible our skin is? It protects us from the outside world while also being a litmus test for how our body's doing physically and emotionally. Our skin sends us important messages about our lifestyle, nutrition, and about how we feel. It plays such an important role in how we see ourselves and how the world sees us.
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It's sort of become a non-negotiable in the last couple of years for me. You know, the same way that when I wanted to start getting in shape for the first time, I hired a personal trainer to show me the ropes of the gym and teach me how to not hurt myself while also getting stronger physically.
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You know, putting like OJ in little freezer things or what it would feel like to cut into a watermelon when you'd run inside and it was like 100 degrees out and you had cold fruit. I don't know. Does it make you feel snacky? The summer heat? Oh, yeah. I mean, when I think summer heat, hit me with one of those rocket pops.
Or a creamsicle. You know, when the ice cream truck rolled by, it was, let's get out there and grab some cold treats. Stacked. Yeah, I think what I've realized, sadly, as an adult, is that mostly when I wanted a cold treat, I probably just needed to drink water. I think I'm learning because, you know, summer is heating up, as it does every year. And the thing that gives me my hydration fix and my treat is...
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drama at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop better hydration today using promo code drama at liquid IV.com. Have you guys ever had that happen to you where you're like, it's just the worst timing ever. And someone tells you drops a, like a feelings bomb on you like that. And you're just like, what do I do? No, never.
I feel like people would be so intimidated to drop a feelings bomb on you, Lindsay. I know, I know. Probably. I'm like, no, I could either like get it out of them or, oh, Lindsay, gee, you know? Yeah. I don't think that's ever happened to me either. And it's making me think of what a big deal it is for a high school boy to
to do something like that. I think I probably have been the one dropping feelings bombs on people. Especially my high school career and with romance. Oh yeah. Oh my God. I definitely went through it once. And I will say like, I don't know. I don't know if it's the, the sort of empathetic nature of my relationships with people, but I for sure wound up in a relationship once where,
because someone was like but I'm in love with you and I was like oh my god this must be it like wow I just didn't see it and then I was like no wait just because you love me doesn't mean I have to love you I was like but I I don't I don't have it's not my responsibility to help you with this feeling I I don't I don't feel this feeling I'm confused how did I get here
That's why they call it love bombing because it can really like... What did you say, Lucy? Was it Bobby? On the playground. I was like, why are you doing this to me? I just want to go on the swings. Can't handle the feelings, Bob. I can't handle them, Bob. It's all Bobby's fault. Oh my God. There were so many big feelings in this episode. Also, I need to say, especially because of how beautiful that end sequence was, Lavinia by The Veils... Yeah, the soundtrack in this episode. ...hit so emotionally. I mean,
Every song in this episode is so good. Yeah. I want a CD of just a CD. How old am I? I want to see. I would like a laser disc, please. Could someone make me a mixtape of this soundtrack? Just this episode. It's so great. It was so good. I actually found an old tape player the other day.
Like a cassette deck? Yeah, it was like a thing that opens up and you slide the tape in and then you close it and then you push play. A Walkman? Yeah, what was it called? No, it's for recording. It's like got a big speaker. The rectangle with the speaker on one side. Yeah. Love it. That reminds me of like the era of risky business. Oh, yeah. I couldn't find any tapes though. Who keeps tapes around? Do you guys still have any tapes? I don't know. Okay.
I think I threw away my discs. Yeah. I went through like a real Marie Kondo phase before Marie Kondo was a thing. And I just was like, these books of CDs are making me feel stressed. It's the opposite of sparking joy. And I like took them all apart and recycled everything. I was like, I got to get out of here. And now I kind of regret it. I'm like, man, I had like a pretty wild time.
CD library in high school and maybe I should have kept it, but probably not. Well, this episode, we had some amazing songs in this episode. What, where's the list? I want to see. Is that in our, well, well, Andrew Paul Woodruff did that really emotional cover of fight for your right to party. It was like a love song on a guitar in the beginning. That was so good. And then we went into the records. Um,
We went into that Suzy Suh song, Petrified to be Godlike, and then Cracks in the Sky. I mean, everything, Audioslave. It was all just so good and poignant. And I don't know, our musical supervisors, I think,
especially by the end of season two, had gotten our show in such a good place. Yeah. Known for being a place that broke bands and broke new songs. And so I feel like suddenly we were entering into this era where we really had kind of the pick of the litter in terms of music at every moment. It's so good. Yeah.
Which not every show gets that. I was like, how did you guys get the rights to all of these songs? That was our thing. It became our thing because, you know, Gossip Girl had the glam element. They had this sort of... They had the fashion. The younger crowd Sex and the City version. Like, the kids that weren't allowed to watch Sex and the City were allowed to watch Gossip Girl. But...
You know, and they had that, that was kind of their thing. So we got music, which I love. I'm so much happier about that because it's just, it has so much more substance to it than fashion. God forbid a fashion designer listen to this and think that I'm bashing fashion because I do love fashion. And there is, I guess, substance in the art of that. But you know what I'm saying in terms of the music. I loved that we brought that on our show. Me too. Are you musical at all, Lindsay? Not at all.
No, I took singing lessons for, for a very short while. And I was able to get to the point where I could hear, you know, the actual resonance that like was me that came from me one day. And I was like, who's that? That's incredible. But you didn't follow through with it. You didn't want to keep going.
I was like, this is going to take so long. It's just not my thing. I'm just like, I can't. It wasn't my thing. What are your outlets? Like for me, singing and musical, you know, and for a lot of musicians, that is the outlet. So for someone who's not musical, what do you love to do? There's like a pole dance, sensual, creative, artistic dance that I do with a group of women that is phenomenal. Awesome. Yeah.
me in the fullness of like my being and my power and my sensuality is like next level. And then you get to like have conversations with women while doing that is like, that's where like the most of my joy comes from. Is it a class or do you do performances? Ideally we would like to do performances. During COVID we lost our studio. And so now we're
Women have like formed a little smaller intimate group together. And tomorrow we're going and doing like one of our first workshops at a new kind of Moroccan studio. Whoa. It's our dream to have a studio that also has like, you can have tea and you can have a sauna and you can, you know, like yes, worship type of a thing. And then also to get on stage with it or do like,
you know, kind of intimate performances. Wow. That's cool. It's you've got to be really strong for that. Pole dancing is, I've done a few aerial arts classes. I've been starting to get into that. I think I've probably done like 10 classes now and I'm, I love it. Uh, it's been hard for me to be consistent cause I travel so much, but, um, it's requires so much more strength than you think it does. Um, yeah. Body gets used to it. Obviously it's,
much easier in terms of kind of second nature, but yeah. Cause it, how long did it take before it started to feel really easy? Not easy, but you know, like. And I've gone through so many different iterations of it. Like sometimes, sometimes I don't even do any pull tricks and I'm just like, you know, using the floor for everything. Um, I remember I went through like, I think there were six levels you could get through. Um, and,
And I like learned the tricks and could do cool things, but it hadn't really integrated smoothly into my body and my fluid conversation yet. I left and came back and then I really feel like I figured out
who I was through dance and the story, like my being and my body's telling. And then that happens sometimes like nature just kicks in and I'll be upside down on the pole and I'll be like, I don't know how I got here. It's just muscle memory. And that's just what like my erotic creature wanted to do at the time. So you're doing like what Jennifer Lopez did in hustlers. I mean, kind of. That was amazing. Wow. She was well, um, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. But it's also, it's like, it's also tribal. It's also primal. And like, you know, what we used to do probably the way women used to move when we were in villages and we were telling story and song and dance. So it has that element to it as well. Very visceral. Well,
And it's interesting too, because so much of women's connection to their bodies has been eviscerated because of patriarchal shame. Like sex, sex is bad. Sensuality is bad, but it's, that's also so often through the male gaze and like to get women back into as your, the words you're using make me feel so inspired. Like,
It's primal feminine energy. It's powerful. It's sensual. It's like when you hear people talk about
goddess energy like recognizing the sacred of the feminine is it's so much more elevated and spiritual than many of the ways I think women have been quote allowed totally and when you watch women in their bodies do this and be embodied in this you realize why it was so threatening because it is the most
miraculous, powerful thing you've ever seen in your entire life. And holy shit, in a wonder this had to be squelched. It was very like, whether it just wasn't the time or whatever, it's going to take a really strong masculine to be able to handle the power of the true feminine. Yeah. I agree with that for sure.
Yeah. That's so cool. Well, talking about another badass female, Cheryl Lee made her appearance in this episode and she's got much more to come. Ellie Harp. I mean, wow. I was so excited for Laura Palmer. I mean, I was like totally geeking out when she came on the show. I was super excited, but yeah, I was super stoked for her to come.
Yeah, and it was so cool too to see Peyton in this moment where she's having a hard time and trying to keep it all together. And Ellie comes in and the way that Cheryl played it, she kind of like got under Peyton's mask really quickly and matched her energy in a similar way that most adults don't. And you see it, like her choices made this
kind of maternal connection feel right. Like in the reveal at the end, you go, oh, this makes all the sense in the world. And I just, I thought that was so beautiful. My name's Elizabeth, like your middle name. It like gave me chills. That was nicely done. Oh, I'm so excited.
Also, how cool to know the origin story of the jacket. Like Hillary's talked so much, Lindsay, on our show about, you know, she has that jacket from, that's like her favorite memento from One Tree Hill, Ellie's leather jacket. And I forgot, I knew it was hers, but I forgot about the whole Courtney Love story. Oh yeah. And you know, her being this rock and roll journalist. And I was like, oh my God, Peyton's jacket's Courtney Love's jacket. Like it was so, that was so fun. So great. I loved it.
Guys, I think we've got like eight minutes or something left with Lindsay. So can we do some fan questions? Yes. Okay. Let's do it. Where are they? Let's see from Heather. Is it common on TV shows to have different directors for each episode? If so, why is that? And if not, why did y'all seem to have so many? That's a good question. I just, I liked this question. Oh yeah. You guys have so many. Yeah.
Yeah, it's common. A different director usually does a different episode. Network, it's really common. I think cable, they tend to have a very much smaller pool. That's true. Well, so, and the reason is it's about the way we shoot because when you're shooting a network show, you are filming while the show is airing. And for the folks at home,
Directors don't just come in and start directing on day one. If a show shoots for eight days, like ours did, the directors also get eight days of prep, which is when they go on location scouts, they meet with the DPs, they visit every set, they select all the wardrobe for their episode, they're working on the script.
So they have eight days of prep, eight days of shooting, and then they have another eight days of post-production when they are editing their episode, you know, cutting the scenes, picking the music. And so it actually takes much longer to direct an episode than just the amount of time that filming takes. And so the person who is directing, let's say, episode 11 is prepping while episode 10 is shooting.
And then likewise, it continues. And so there has to be a different director in each episode so that they can rotate through the season and stay on schedule.
For, you know, some cable shows like Joy's talking about, if it's like, let's say it's a six-episode miniseries, they have all six episodes written and locked and wardrobe done exactly before they start shooting. And then they'll have one director do that whole project for like three months. But in network TV, they rotate so they can do prep, shooting, and post in blocks. Yeah.
I also didn't realize you guys were of the era of doing 22, 23 episodes. That was rough. It was rough. I don't think anybody does 22 anymore. No, I don't think so. I don't know. We survived. We survived.
Barely, barely. Which feels crazy. Oh, this is funny from Olivia. She said, Olivia says, what do you do when you're supposed to shoot all day, but you wake up sick? I clearly had a cold in the last episode. You could hear my voice. Did you, do you get sick days and do they have to cancel shooting or film a different scene if you can't make it?
Uh, it depends on how sick you are. You just basically have to take some Sudafed or whatever. Yeah. I mean, if you, the thing is don't come to work. If you are, if you have the flu, I've never seen anybody come to work with the, like a proper flu where you're, you have growing up and,
I had like a fever. I had all this stuff going on. And I was like, you're still, you work, you just work. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, I, the only time I remember us ever changing the schedule in nine years was when one of our coworkers got really sick and was in the hospital for two days. And unless literally they, they expect you to come to work unless you're in the hospital. And I actually, um,
On a show years ago, I was working in Chicago. I had meningitis. I spent 36 hours in the emergency room. I was really, really sick. And they literally came and pulled me out of the hospital and took me to work. They were like, it doesn't matter. You got to stand in the corner. You got to be in the scene. We don't have anything left to shoot that you're not in. Oh my gosh. It was...
It was insane. But, you know, it's kind of... That's such a lack of creativity. Sorry. It's a lack of creativity, but it's also, you know, a show is kind of like, it's a bureaucracy. It's so big. It's hundreds of people doing a job. So there isn't really room to miss one person. It throws the whole machine off. So it can be really complicated to...
It does get complicated, yeah. There's no understudy. Yeah, there's no understudy. It's not like theater. I do wonder how us getting a little clearer on public health with the pandemic and how actually crazy it is that people used to go to work when they were sick.
I wonder how that will affect our industry, if it will, if it'll matter. I don't think it's crazy to go to work when you're sick. I think like it's just part of... Getting sick is part of being alive. It's part of life. It is. But if you're like actively contagious, it's so disrespectful. Like...
Yeah. Everybody knows. Like everybody does. The thing is everyone knows if you show up sick, everyone knows that you're there and you're sick. So they just stay away from you. And you know, you just don't do your kissing scene or whatever. And, or you just like load up on vitamin C and you're like, I'm in a scene with somebody who's sick today. Hope I don't catch it. Yeah.
Can we talk about how incredible our skin is? It protects us from the outside world while also being a litmus test for how our body's doing physically and emotionally. Our skin sends us important messages about our lifestyle, nutrition, and about how we feel. It plays such an important role in how we see ourselves and how the world sees us.
So let's shine a spotlight on our skin. Let's go deep into skin health, what it means, what it looks like, and how to have it. Join host Nicole Berry as she unravels the mysteries around our skin on the new series, Skin Queries, a podcast brought to you by Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia.
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It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th. Take
Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back to school season into back to beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th. All right, this is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready?
You go to eBay. Seriously, there you'll be reunited with that designer goddess of your dreams, that iconic Gucci handbag authenticated by experts no less. And with that in mind, you might let a fun Prada mini bag catch your attention. But at eBay, wandering eyes are always welcome. So if you happen to also find the perfect cheetah print dress to go with that bag, we'll just call it fate, baby. So go ahead and let's take you down a Y2K adventure. Flirt with the endless possibilities, baby tees that say I'm
back chunky heels only you can pull off and the Y2K mini skirts that were way ahead of their time. And you better make a move on that timeless Tiffany and Coach Arm necklace while you're at it. And just because you look good in chunky heels doesn't mean you'll slack on your sneaker game. Let your love for sneakers take you down a not-so-sold-out road and hit the ground running with all the latest streetwear. Nike, Off-White, Fear of God, Stone Island, Kith, Supreme,
and whatever Adidas collab pops up next. The finds are limitless and the authenticity is verified. For real. So don't worry when that chrome heart ring steals your heart. Let it ignite your inner goth and follow your destiny. Fall in love with a goth queen seller from Nevada who's got the whole selection. Get that lace-up corset with the knee-high platforms and stop at nothing to find the perfect leather jacket to complete the collection.
And if that has you cross paths with a vintage fringe jacket, have the courage to get the boots to match. Just go full cowboy and never look back. Next thing you know, you're topping off your wardrobe with authentic luxury handbags and the most pristine watches because now you're confident and eBay's your place.
The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. Friends, Symbiotica is a supplement brand that we love and trust. You've heard Hillary say, we're science fair kids. We love research. We love hacking our health. And for me in particular, I love,
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And their formulas do not have any seed oils, preservatives, toxins, artificial additives, or quote, natural flavors. I mean, most supplements have that weird chalky taste or it's like sulfuric and it lingers for a while. I hate that. And so it's really, it's hard to find a supplement that has premium ingredients but still tastes great.
That's why we like it. Symbiotica has transformed our lives, and I am so glad we've found a brand that actually cares about us, its customers. I know I can finally see a difference in how I function and feel, and I actually look forward to taking my supplements every day.
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Save up to 40% your first year at lifelock.com slash iHeart. That's 40% off your first year at lifelock.com slash iHeart. Terms apply. Well, anyway, we have a wheel. We have a most likely to wheel to spin. Yeah, we don't know the answers on public health, everybody, but we do have a wheel and we're excited to spin it with Lindsay. Okay, who is most likely to... That's funny. Win the worst cook in America? Yeah.
Would this actually be like Taylor or Rachel? See, Taylor is the kind of girl who spends a lot of time like nurturing a meal. She probably microwaves an egg or something. Yeah. The best. A little quick dish. I will say so you don't feel alone in it. Brooke Davis did set a turkey on fire in season seven over Thanksgiving. Right. Yeah. No, I love to cook. But no, my alter ego was bad in the kitchen for comedy's sake.
What about in real life? Who's a terrible cook in real life? I don't actually know. I'm impressed with all of us in the kitchen. Who's bad?
I used to never cook until the pandemic. And then I really got into it for a while. Oh, really? How'd you start? Did you like download an app or what was it? No, I had a girlfriend who is a chef and she started making a couple dishes around me and I was like, this is so good. And she's like, it's so easy. So I just started making what she made. And then I started incorporating a whole bunch of different things. And I was like, this is really cool. And I'll just wing it.
Yeah, that's a hard one to answer with actors because artists are typically creative. You know, I don't know. I would think that extends. Yeah, that kind of extends to the kitchen. I don't know. It tends to be, but...
Say love me. Well, it's been fun speculating. Lindsay, thank you so much for joining us. I'm so glad that you came. Thank you. Next week, we've got episode one of season three. We're finally out of season two. Hallelujah.
Okay. That was a rough one. So next one is called like you, like an arsonist. I think this is a pretty famous episode actually. I think so. I'm excited to see what happens. And Lindsay, I really hope that you'll come back and join us for, for more, especially episodes that you're in. Cause I would love to talk to you then. I would love to do that, especially with our scenes and stuff too. That would be wonderful. Yeah. You know what you really have to be here for is that the pool scene, the big pool. Oh my God. Yes.
Oh, lots more to come. Thank you guys for joining us. We'll see you next week. Bye. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH. Or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're a school drama girl, drama about them high school queens. We're riding our comic girl, cheering for the right team. DramaQueens, DramaQueens, more drama.
It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th. Take
Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back-to-school season into back-to-beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th. Ooh!
Oh, I love everything about being in my 40s. I feel more successful. I love like my work. I love my family. I like I feel so secure in everything except some of my hormones. And and what I'm learning is that everything is tied to this like gut health and internal health. And so when I can find a company that's
that makes me feel better and I don't have to worry about their ingredients, I have found gold. Absolutely. I am all in on that with you. And that's why on our show we love Symbiotica. Symbiotica is the only supplement company with no seed oils, preservatives, toxins, or natural flavors. Symbiotica has transformed my life and I am so glad that we have found a brand that actually cares about its customers.
So we can finally see a difference in how we feel and how we function. And I look forward to taking my supplements every day because I know it means I'm going to have a great day. Feel more energized, alert, and balanced with high-quality supplements that work.
Head over to Symbiotica.com and use code DRAMA for 20% off and free shipping on your subscription order. That's C-Y-M-B-I-O-T-I-K-A.com. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Boy, I've spent definitely a significant amount of time in therapy in my life and I
I think there's just so many layers to life that can be hard to navigate. And having somebody there to just talk through things really makes the days easier sometimes. It's a simple truth. No matter who you are, mental health challenges can affect you. And how you manage them can make all the difference.
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