Take Me to the Pilot • EP101
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First of all, you don't know me. We're school drama girl drama about them high school queens. We'll take a ride in our Comet girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You can be smart, old-fashioned, but you're tough, girl. You can sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens. We ended last week with champagne. Hey, now. We're kicking off this week with the rest of the champagne. What?

So this is the recap of episode one, the pilot. Air date, September 23rd, 2003. OTH day. I didn't realize like jersey number 23. And then we air in the 23rd of 2003. What? What? There's like Illuminati with all these numbers. Did they do that on purpose? They must have done that on purpose. Maybe. I don't think so. I think that was Michael Jordan's number. Yeah.

23 was Michael Jordan. So the synopsis is, here we go. Nathan Scott is Tree Hill High's biggest basketball star and he's dating Peyton, a cheerleader. Ew. And so much more. Nathan's half-brother Lucas joins the team and threatens to take both Nathan's spot in the lineup and his girl. As if. I feel like I was nobody's girl. I belong to myself. I was my own. So grumpy.

I have to perhaps start in an unconventional place, but we've all just watched the pilot for the first time since 2003. And oh my God, Craig Schaeffer is so hot. I told you. You always knew, Joy. I knew I could spot it from a mile away. I was like, mm-mm.

I was in love with him. I was late on the pickup with that because I was like, well, he's playing one of the grown-ups. I was like, he's a grown-up. But you were like, no, no, ladies. You had no time for the young dudes. No, not at all. I had no time or patience. You were wise beyond your years of joy. Yeah.

Yeah, he was like muscly and his jeans were tight. Like, let's talk about the denim. Yes. Oh, God. In this first episode. Wow, this baggy denim. The cuts of jeans on the men. Yeah, almost in flares. Also on us. I don't know.

I love my jeans. I don't know what you guys are talking about. Like, I've been wearing flares consistently, whether they're cool or not cool. Flares are pretty fabulous, but it's more the rise or the lack thereof that I'm concerned with. Yeah, the hip huggers. They were just, like, were the zippers two and a half inches long? Three inches long? Just above your pubic hair. Like, just barely. Oh, my God. No.

We blame Britney Spears for this. She really, yeah, she ruined it for the rest of us. But I also feel like because we were in Wilmington, North Carolina, Hmm.

Our shopping options were not what they were in New York or Los Angeles. So we were dealing with like being six months behind any cool kid curve. But I have to say there's a part of that that worked to our advantage because most people don't have access to like the, you know, it's, I mean, that's.

if you live in the city and that's a priority for you and that's fun and it's a great way to express yourself but there are a lot of people who just that's not a priority and so I think there's a relatability in that as well we looked like regular kids at the time

OC had come on the air over the summer and had blown up. And it was all about rich kids. And so that was our competition. That was a fantasy element. They were so fancy. We were Gap, Old Navy, mall kids. We were mall kids. God bless that hot topic. It's so relatable. I think that's one of the major things that the fact that we were

relatable in that way that kept the show on the air for so long that we weren't just a fantasy element of, oh, murder and intrigue and, you know, the parents all sleeping with each other and everything. I mean, that didn't happen on our show until at least like season five. When did this barber start rolling around with chef?

Antoine. Yeah. Antoine. Oh, my God. No, there's so many things that I never noticed about the show until we just rewatched it. Yeah. Like the grooming. The grooming. The grooming between Paul and James. They have the same hair. Yeah. And then Chad and Chef.

Same hair. Yeah. Same haircut. And guys, when we refer to Chef, we're talking about Craig Sheffer who played Uncle Keith. And yeah, like there's a, we just watched the scene where they're in Keith's body shop and Keith and Lucas have this,

hair and we just never knew. Never noticed. Never clocked it. Never clocked. Speaking of hair, Joy and I have very, Joy and I would look like sisters if we were groomed. Yeah, because when I showed up in Wilmington, I had curly blonde hair and they took one look at me and they're like, yeah, that's not going to work. No. So. What did, like, how quickly did they make that decision? Oh, it was like within, I'm sure they had made the decision probably before I showed up. I mean, when I tested, I was blonde. And then they just,

Probably figured out they'd just die as soon as I got there, which they did. Did they tell you that?

had a feeling what happened i'd seen the pilot i knew we they wouldn't let us look exactly like and i was game for it in fact actually i was super excited about playing this character and i thought like maybe i'll get bobby pins and stick them in my hair so that my ears will stick out so i'll look like i just wanted to add this element of like awkwardness to her um i thank god i didn't do that because can you imagine like six years nine years yeah nine years of bobby pins the ear tuck episode would

had to happen. You're like, guys, I can't do this anymore. Yeah. You're like, I have a headache all the time. Yeah. But the hair was a deal because I didn't straighten it a lot. And back then there were less tools and advances and knowing how to handle curly hair and make it straight in the south in the humidity. And so I ended up with this very flat top, wide bottomed hair that was kind of a strange color. But

It's all right, you know. But your hair, I feel like, I mean, we'll see as the episodes go on. I feel like you had like three different hair colors season one because they kept dying it and dying it and dying it. Yeah. And it was like an evolution of hair. And I was trying to like...

It was also weird, like, because we didn't all want to look alike. And I didn't want to, like, compete with you because you were the blonde one. But I also, like, was naturally blonde. And so it looked good on my skin tone to lean lighter in that way. And then we, like, then there was a time when we totally...

You went really platinum and then I went blonde. Yeah. But I mean, I wish I had just stayed the same color, honestly. You were red for a minute too. I was red. Yeah. Oh God. I dyed my hair every color in the book over the years. You were super black at one point too. Like dark hair. Well, I had dyed my hair black.

in the summer between seasons two and three. - Oh, 'cause you were doing the horror movie. - Yeah. - I dyed my hair black and I cut bangs. And I remember even lightening it when I came back, it was so much darker than it had been. And our boss who shall not be named lost his marbles that I'd cut bangs. 'Cause he was like, "All the cheerleaders who never banged me "the time of day in high school, all had bangs "and they were bitches." - Bangs equals bitches. - Bangs equals bitches.

But it was like, it was that funny moment because we, you know, we were just talking, watching the pilot about how our hair was kind of this battle. Well, not to bring back Felicity, but it was because of that. Yeah. Yeah. When she cut off all her hair, they went crazy. Kids at home might not know about that. Yeah. Okay. So there's, you know, there's a great show called Felicity. If you haven't gone back and watched it, you really should. Carrie Russell is an icon. Just a dynamite actress.

But she had this big, beautiful, long, curly blonde hair, blondish brown hair. And she went away one season and cut it off. And Michelle Williams did the same thing actually in Dawson. She just chopped it all off. But her hair wasn't its own image. Yeah, I mean Carrie's hair was like –

it was an image that was instantly recognizable. Nobody else on TV had hair like this. So when she chopped it all off without letting anybody know, everybody kind of went crazy and the show's ratings actually dropped and they, they connected it to her hair being cut off, which is ridiculous. It was like in his fifth season. Yeah. Yeah. But we know for whatever reason, the ratings dropped and it happened to be the same time. Heaven forbid the writers admit they'd gotten. They'll just blame the actress and her hair. That's right. So,

So, yeah. So then from that point forward, everybody was trying to do recon and put into every actresses. There was like a hair clause in the contracts or something, right? Like you can't do something to your hair. I feel like there's a whole vice president at a network that's just in charge of actresses' hair. Like the boys can do whatever the hell they want to do. But it was a massive battle about hair every episode. And for us girls,

Oh, yeah. You can't do anything. And it had to be down, down, sexy, down. Approvals. Take the Polaroid. Send it off to L.A. Make sure they approve this hairstyle. Yeah, it was so crazy. And Hillary, you pointed out so wisely that...

you know, watching the pilot, you'd been fighting to get ponytails for the girls at cheer practice. So now looking back at it, the stuff that I was fighting about right out of the gates, like the audacity of a 20 year old kid to be like, hi, um, you're wrong. I feel like,

I feel like I can go onto a set today and assert myself. But the idea that I was doing that as a child, I'm mortified. And about hair, like nobody had taught us how to pick and choose our battles. Like which ones do you fight for? But also the irony is that at 20, you had been a cheerleader two years before. So you were like, no cheerleaders are athletes. When I didn't want like stunts, cheerleaders to make fun of us. Like God forbid the real cheerleaders out there be like, Oh,

these fake TV cheerleaders. So I was adamant that like there was accuracy. Okay. Well, well, this is a good segue because get, get away from hair. Cause you know, we can only talk about that for so long. But like speak, speaking of hair and being, speaking of being a cheerleader there, you know, Lucas asks Peyton a great question in the pilot. He says, why are you a cheerleader? You're the least cheery person I know. And I did always kind of wonder why Peyton was a cheerleader. I think that's why we needed Brooke. You know what I mean? Like,

I remember having like an internal struggle my real senior year in high school where I didn't like what cheerleading stood for. Like I didn't like being in the passive role of cheering on someone else. Mm-hmm.

But all my best friends did it, you know, and it was like a way for us to hang out after school, go on trips together. You know, it was a thing that connected us and I could make fun of it because I was one of them. You can't make fun of a cheerleader when you're not a cheerleader and not sound like a total asshole.

I mean, I guess other people do, but you should know you're an asshole. So it made a lot of sense for me for Brooke to be introduced because she was the anchor for Peyton. It was like, if my mom's dead and I'm a nightmare and the one person in my life I can rely on does this dumb thing, I guess I'll do this dumb thing too. But when we shot the pilot, you weren't there yet. And so I had to go over to a high school in Wilmington and

And, you know, I'm like a 20-year-old VJ, you know? And it's like all these real 15- and 16-year-olds. And they're like, okay, so just hang out with these girls after school. And so part of me felt like a predator. I was like, what am I doing hanging out with these children, you know? But...

Like in the pilot, that was a real high school cheerleading squad that was local to the area. I'd love to know what those girls are doing now. Like how weird it must be for them to see their childhood experience like played out on TV. Like Bevan grew up in Wilmington. Yeah. She kind of had a tap on it, but. Yeah. Was that anyone's childhood experience though? Like what we just saw, is that, I mean, obviously we know it's heightened for television, but.

I'm trying to imagine in my high school something like that, actually. Yeah, I mean, I don't feel like the experience, I don't think...

I mean, who knows? We did say during the, the, the viewing that we were like, God, we all thought it was so scandalous that there is this idea that this guy would have knocked up two women and would have two kids. And then we're like, people have whole other families. Now that I know grownups, I'm like, grownups are so messy, but it's funny because at the time we were like, this is so crazy. But I also think there is that real element of when you are in high school, it is your whole world. Yeah. Stakes feel so,

so high. The stakes are so high because that's, that's the entire scope of your universe and your experience. So I almost feel like the stakes of the rivalry and who gets to play on the sports team, it, they felt high. They were dramatized because really, you know, when you're young, you're just like, I want to fit in and I want to belong and I want my family to be okay. And

I don't know. It's pretty real for a lot of people. Those stakes still fell high for us at 20 being on that set. Oh, my God. Because we're not that far out of high school. So, I mean, those hormones and those emotions and the feeling of everything being really big. I mean, you were talking about buying your first car, you know. Well, and I had gone to a really big sports high school. Like Parkview High School went to states in football, and we were like machines.

And so we went to states and cheered and had those big, huge moments. So for me...

I felt like I knew it better than the adults who were writing about it. Cause I was like, guys, I was literally just here, you know, like I know what this looks like. Um, and I think that's why I was so like bossy about it. Uh, but nobody was like that good looking. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like for me, the hard part was the beauty element of it because I look back at pictures of real high school and we should definitely post our real high school picture. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Because it wasn't cute. I had the eyebrows. Those 90s eyebrows. Guys with super crunchy hair.

The year I thought I could have a bob and learned that that's a real bad haircut on me. My junior year in high school. No. Junior year in high school. It's a picture so bad I'll show the two of you. I don't know if I'd post it. Was it like split down the middle? Yeah. And like chunky highlights. Yes. Oh, wow. Like Robin. My eyebrows were over plucked. I didn't know.

Did you like twist it back with the butterfly? Oh, I did that in middle school for sure. Good God. No, dude. It all comes back to him.

There's such identity in it. It was one of the few things that we felt like we could control as the girls. Cause we couldn't control what we said. We couldn't control like what we were wearing necessarily. What our characters had to do. I mean that moment for you in the pilot. Okay. So yeah, when we were watching the pilot,

There's a scene where Peyton comes out of the bathroom after Nathan and is like, hi, Mr. Scott. And so when we when I first got the job, it was called Ravens. We've talked about this. And the arc throughout everything was narrated by Barry Corbin, by Whitey. And he was describing everything that happened in the town to his dead wife, Camilla.

And that was. Which we didn't find out was dead until the end of the pilot. Oh, you're totally right. That's right. But that was the tone. It was like a really sweet, you know, like small town aw shucks kind of show. But they were trying to capitalize on the popularity of 8 Mile. And they wanted it to be like an aw shucks town, but with this 8 Mile underbelly of the kid from the wrong side of the tracks. Never in any of that was there a sexy element.

Right. And so I felt totally safe just being like, okay, yeah, I'll go and be the cranky girl. So then when the OC got popular and we had to turn up the sexy, it was like a bait and switch. Like, do we get a say? Like, do we get to have an opinion about it? And we didn't, we just had to turn up the sexy, which like, thankfully we're all really sexy in our flat shoes and our like corduroy skirts. That was hard.

for us as young women who were all like we were all relatively like prudish yeah demure in our you know in our activity and so when we were to get into that environment and have to play this like

I don't know, older male idea of what a young teenage high school girl could be in a dream world or maybe was maybe fantasy. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how much of that was that, how much of it was experience of, um,

that maybe they knew that, you know, we just weren't like, or I just, I don't know. Anybody who's having sex in high school. Oh, I did. Did you? I did. But like, I also think it, it, for the people who were, it was really late and it was a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody was like, Oh my God, no one was casual about it. I mean, my God, I, for very first boyfriend who I dated until I was a senior in high school was my best friend from summer camp since the age of nine.

Like my sweet, sweet, like high school sweetheart who for years I was like, I'm still not ready. It was like, it's okay. Like just such a gentleman, a true gentleman. And it's funny to think like, yeah, I mean, I don't know. I had three people by the time we got on our show. Yeah.

Like what? None. Yeah. You would never casually come out of the shower in front of their parents. In front of your boyfriend's father. Like how dare you be in the shower at your boyfriend's house in the first place? No, I shower with my clothes on. In fact, I also just love, I gotta, I gotta tell the listeners cause it's a fun one to watch when you come out of said scene where Paul is really just

into James because he has, by the way, the one episode where James has a nipple ring that some makeup artist had to glue onto his chest, by the way, gross. And like the piercings are gross, just like, ew, having a fake one glued on is gross and no one liked it and so they never referred to it again.

You walk out of the bathroom and you wouldn't even look at the camera. No, they're like, can you cheat out? And I'm like, no, absolutely not. Like, I'm mortified right now. I'm hoping this gets cut. Yeah, I'm mortified by this fake situation, so I'm not going to play it. Like, I still, as a married woman, couldn't do that. Just like traipse by in my towel in front of my father-in-law. Like, oh, yeah. No, so blase. No, I would never. Yeah. Ew. Yeah.

In front of you guys, but like in-laws? Oh my God, it makes me feel so small and hot with shame. Meanwhile, also like

Like looking back on it, Paul was also a viable option. Like Paul's the same age as my husband. And so like, like the whole element of like traipsing around, like semi dressed was just so loaded and weird. And I remember that feeling of, I was never allowed to watch these shows growing up. And here I am like right smack dab in the middle of it. And this one's potentially worse because,

than what I wasn't allowed to watch as a kid. And you're the heroine, too. You're the one that we're watching and, like, you know, learning from. Well, I was taken pretty much off the bat. The second the first episode aired and the reaction to Peyton was so bad. Because it really was. The reaction to her was so negative. Wait, really? Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. I didn't know that either. Yeah, they came to me and they're like, we're going to have to take you dark, right? Yeah.

And then you'll have a moral arc where you, you know, like come back around and people will understand why you're such an asshole. But that's kind of great, though. Like as an actor, that's that we understand that now. But back then. Yeah. You know, you're like 20 and you're like, people hate me. Yeah. Yeah. Like the chat boards. Remember the chat board?

Lord. Yes. Just pages and pages of. That's a hideous place. Judgment. It's so, people are so cruel. Yeah. And the irony that, that we clearly are not in control. I mean, we did over the years have to go so hard in the paint for our characters. Yeah. And when we would win a battle, it was really like winning a war. And, and there'd be people online being like, can't believe you did that. It's like, well, I,

Mr. Jersey 0796. F*** you, man. Like, God, do you think I chose this?

I did not choose this choice. And if they'd known how bad it was supposed to be and what we like reeled it back in to become. And so like that, the new normal that this show created of like parents not being around of like casual sexuality and stuff. It's something that I'm really happy. We've been so open about with, with conventions and things like that. Cause I never wanted teenage girls to feel like,

they were behind the eight ball or that they were like missing out on something. Cause I'm like, do you want to see pictures of 11th grade for real? Cause yeah, it wasn't that. We thought about a lot. Cause we knew that we were, we were speaking to a young audience and I was constantly having conversations about like young girls look up to me and I, up to this character, you know, me as this character. And I,

And I'm nervous about A, B, or C because I don't want them to think that that's normal or okay or that they should be treated that way or that they should subject. And the conversation between as an actor portraying a character and you want to show that the character has an arc so your character has to have

flaws and they've got to learn things and go through things. So yes, you don't want to be perfect all the time, but you also, there was this sort of moral responsibility that we felt and it was tough. That was really tough to navigate as a young woman. And I remember also the excitement

of feeling our first sense of permission to be a little wild. I mean, cause like we, you and I, you know, Hillary and I, our birthdays are a week apart. We turned 21 and we started working a week later filming. We were already in Wilmington. It was really fun. It was so fun.

That first night, we went to Level 5, which was this cool bar on top of a theater. And we ordered drinks and looked at each other like we had just gotten rid of murder. They were like, can we see your IDs? And we were like, yup. And we were like, are they going to get rejected? Are they going to know they're real? And then they gave us cocktails. And we looked at each other like, oh my god, it worked. Yeah. It worked. It was magic. And we had money to buy our own drinks. We could buy drinks.

Yeah, it was, I mean, we didn't, I wish we'd had like phones with cameras at the time because all of this stuff. We'd have so many memories on our phones. Also like a lot of blackmail. You know what I mean? Friends, we all.

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Visit BetterHelp.com slash drama today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash drama. Looking back at the show now, just watching it objectively, Joy, you were really good to point out like the structure of it is so good. It's so good. And there was nothing else like it on TV at the time. Yeah.

the parallels between what each boy is going through. Yeah. The way they cut back and forth on the courts with the cars and the buses, the connection between the two older brothers, the two younger brothers, how they, that whole dynamic. Yeah. That was really strong. Yeah. Yeah.

There was a lot of wildlife in this episode. Joy got attacked by pigeons. That's right. There was an alligator in some scene, right? It was in my scene. What was your pigeon experience? Oh, we had some guy out there with the pigeons trained. So that was a...

Okay. For those of you who don't know, it's called, that was called a steady shot. It was a steady cam shot. It was, it was a one-er is what we call it because there's no coverage, which means the camera's not popping in on Chad's face and then my face to get each of our lines. It's just one camera set up and we do the scene and we walk through and say our dialogue and when it's over, we're done. And by the way,

way baller for the steadicam operator because what that means is that there's a guy wearing a camera strap to his chest walking backwards yeah looking in a monitor at you and chad in a two shot that never cuts never moves has to be perfectly timed and this man has to trust the guy who's dragging him by the vest enough to just look at the two of you and walk backwards blindly it's it's so

It's so hard. And it's got to be perfect. If one person, if somebody coughs or sneezes and doesn't make it work in the scene, you got to start all over again. So anyway, the pigeons or the pigeons. And so we're doing this one-er on the study cam. And, uh, we had the guy with the pigeons and, um, it, there was like always a thing that just couldn't, we could never get it to work. And it was so frustrating. I don't know what they would fly in the wrong direction or like he'd open the cage and they'd just walk out. Like, no,

Never anything right. So finally it worked. And then, you know, we continued on with the scene, but yeah, I had, I had a, that was my pigeon wildlife experience. What was yours? I had the gator. Yeah. My, was it my first day?

It was either my first or second day, but it was my first real day of like acting. I may have done some like, you know, like extra work in a different scene. But my first real day of acting was that roadside scene where my car is broken down and it's just Chad and I. And Chad had been on Gilmore Girls. He'd been on Dawson's. He'd done like a Haley Dolph movie or something. You know, like he'd done so much work.

And so our director was a very big time director, Brian Gordon. And I knew he'd done some like HBO stuff and he was a very big deal. And I had not done a chemistry read with anyone. I hadn't tested. I had done this, you know, one little part on Dawson's Creek. I had done, you know, my scene study classes in New York for the last two years, but mostly it was theater where you've got a really big space to move around and

and rehearsal time. Yeah. So Chad and I get called to set and I knew my lines coming and going, right? We go down there, they put us on these marks, which are like little, you know, pieces of tape and the shape of a cross. And they're like,

hit this don't you dare look at it because the camera's pointed at you you just have to feel it and I'm like unless it's a wide shot but there's like a little dot the size of your half of your fingernail they rip the tape t off and they're like see this little dot we left you and you're like in the grass the green dot in the grass no smaller than my pinky nail so they they're everyone's like just like telling me all these things and no one realized I didn't know the business at

Right. I didn't know how to hit a mark. I didn't know how to find my light. I didn't know any of this. And while we're in the midst of the very first rehearsal, a gator is swimming up to Chad and I, and no one is clocking it. Like no one's saying a word in the marsh, right there in the water. And I'm like, Hey, uh, anybody, nobody, nobody, anybody.

And I was distracted, right? Like warranted. So we end rehearsal. I go to my trailer. I knew it was bad. Like I knew it was a bad rehearsal because the, just the lingo they were using. I kept having to ask like, what are you talking about? Pulling focus? Like, what does that even mean? I had no idea. The director comes to my trailer. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And I was like, yeah, okay.

He's like, I need to talk to you. Oh. You didn't know your lines. Yes, I fucking did know my lines. I knew my lines, but there was like a lot going on. You're like, there's an alligator, sir. Don't you ever waste my time or the crew's time again. And I was like, I cried.

And then I had to pull it together and like, oh, it was just like the worst, scariest day. But I never didn't know my lines again. Like my whole career. It was a great note to get your very first day. Even though you didn't deserve it. Like for the record, I knew my lines. I just had an alligator coming at me. But the interesting thing is that the requirement is you have to be

unflappable yeah no matter what yeah and that's that's a hard skill to learn it was your first day no one but the thing is when you go on to a job no one realizes it's your first day because it's not their first day they've been doing this for years like you're just welcome to the circus kid and so um it definitely set the tone for me of crew first always crew first be a team player don't

Don't ever waste anyone's time. Yeah. I think that probably plagued me a little bit the whole course of shooting because I was then I tried to overcompensate. So I'd be like, I'll advocate for every department, you know, like I'll fight your battles for you because I'm on your team. Remember? But it all came down to that frickin gator. Wow. I mean, people die all the time in Wilmington getting eaten by gators. Yeah.

In Wilmington? I didn't know that happened all the time. Yeah, like Greenfield Lake. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Whoa. I know I never walked my dog down there. Yeah, no, there was a bad, there were some bad stories about like, I remember maybe, maybe this has been created in my brain, but I'm 99% sure that when we lived there, there was a story about somebody walking their dog around Greenfield Lake and the dog got snatched. Oh, yeah. But the person's arm was in the leash. No.

And so when the dog was getting rolled by the gator, the person walking it was also drowned. And I was like, well, I'm never going there ever. I'm never going. This is the mythology. That's so fun about shooting in a small town. Cause like, I don't know, but I heard it did. Oh my God. It was also just such a crazy thing because I remember, um,

You guys obviously shot the pilot. You do pilots in the spring, guys. So like March, usually. And so it's chilly still in Wilmington in March. But then when we got there to start shooting properly, and Joy, when you had to shoot all your pilot scenes, do all those reshoots, it was July. It's 100 degrees. It's 100% humidity. But you're shooting a show that's going to be airing on TV in September. Oh, the sweaters. So you're wearing caps.

cashmere sweaters and leather jackets. And they're like, could you stop sweating? You know, one of the camera guys. And you're like, I wish I could help you. I'm so sorry. No. And another thing to note is that our show was supposed to be a mid season replacement. Yeah. January. That's right. And that's why we were all dressed for winter because we were supposed to come on the air in January. And so we were filming in July. We had a six month lead and,

And another show got canned. And so they put us on the air right away in September. But that meant that we were filming an episode and then it would air like two or three weeks later. It was fast. Yeah. So there was no way to adjust for like reaction, you know, to like, like crowd reaction and stuff like that. We, you know, it was so, um,

I just remember being so nervous about Peyton. Cause I was like, everybody hates her. Everybody hates her. I'm on set reading about how everyone hates her. And like, we're still in the midst of like being a big jerk, you know? So it was, yeah, that was scary. There was no promotion for the show. It was all word of mouth.

And that was a crazy thing. Yeah, because every week... Street cred, yeah. Street cred, man. Every week the viewership jumped in ways that we all were like, what's happening? And when we first, because obviously you ushered us in, Hill, to the whole world of MTV, and I will never forget when we went and did that first TRL, and the people at MTV were like, last time we had a crowd this big was for Eminem. And we were like... I mean, Times Square was...

I've never seen a crowd like it. And we were like, this is for us? Yeah, I remember being really confused. I was like having a panic attack. I was sweating. I was like, what's this? I didn't think it was for us. One of the others paid people to do it. And now as an adult, I'm like...

Well, no, then every movie would have done that. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we didn't have those crowds for anybody else. It was, I didn't know that they were for us. I just thought Times Square was packed and we pulled up and I got out and I was like, man, this is crazy. What is going on? And I got out and I saw somebody in the, in the immediate crowd surrounding us holding up a poster that was Nathan and Haley. And I just was like,

What? This daily? Wait, what? And they were holding up posters for all of us in all different ways. But that was just the one that my eyes saw that was like, oh my God, wait, these people are here for us? Yeah. Especially because we were just in this little town. Like, oh man, we were laughing so hard. You guys watching the pilot, just thinking about all the shenanigans of our lives there. And like one of the things that's so funny about Wilmington, it's a college town and it's a retirement town. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like-

21. And then it was a bunch of 19 year old kids at UNCW. And then I wasn't going to kiss those. And then it was a bunch of people's like dads and grandpas on the golf course. I might've kissed those. And so it was kind of just us. Like all we had was each other literally for better or worse. Um,

And oh man, we just had no perspective on anything outside of our little bubble in this little place. And then we got to New York and there were thousands of people in the streets outside of a building where we were going to do press. And we were like, what?

Is this it was like being in the twilight zone. It was so crazy. I remember other people talking about like, oh, your life's about to change. And I'm like, well, I've been on TV since I graduated high school. Like, what are you talking about? You know? Yeah, I do live TV. Yeah. You know, I get the reaction right away.

So to do something where the reaction was delayed was weird because then it really was so much bigger. And I had a boyfriend, a fiance at the time, who came to visit and was like riding a skateboard around our base camp. And I remember our bosses going, he won't last long. Like they knew our life was about to change enough that I would just like cast off the old skin and turn into something different. I never felt like...

I mean, did you guys feel like your lives did change all of a sudden? Because like I said, we were in London. No, only in that I...

was making decisions a hundred percent on my own for the first time, like where I wanted to live. Yeah. You know, I went shopping for a car with Brian Greenberg in those first couple episodes. I remember I was looking at like a mountaineer. Do they even make mountaineers anymore? It's kind of like a Jeep, right? I don't know. Like a Range Rover, not a Range Rover. I, whatchamacallit. Yeah. Like, it's like a GP kind of, it's like a sport utility vehicle. Not like a Subaru.

I don't know. I don't know. I think a mountaineer is like a, I think I was just excited. Look, there it goes. Yeah. Like a Ford, like a Ford escape or whatever. Like an explorer. I was just pumped to like hang out with Greenberg cause he was so cool. You know? And so we would like shopping for cars and then I was too scared to actually spend money on a car from a car lot because

Because I wasn't convinced. It's scary to spend money when you're making it. I bought like a $1,500 1986 Mercedes that like had the crank windows, you know? Like a turbo diesel. No AC. And that's what we would like drive into work. Yeah. And yeah, it was...

It felt extravagant at the time. All of us trying to figure out who we wanted to be. I mean, that's a big deal at that age. Like, you know, we all had different personalities, but you also, we were looking up to other public figures at the time and to the things that we saw in the magazines and other women that we saw around us. I didn't know. I mean, I, I, there were things I admired about you. There are things I admired about you. I just, I,

And I remember like, okay, let me copy that and see if that feels right in my skin. No, that feels, that doesn't feel right. It was like trying on a sweater. Yes. And I'd look at a magazine and be like, let me try that on and see. And I think every teenage girl can relate to that. We're all trying on different suits to see which one fits us. I felt so confused too, because to your point, everyone around us kept telling us our lives were changing.

but i i just felt like i had no idea what that meant and and i think part of it for me you know i

I grew up my whole life. I went to an all-girls school with 50 girls in my graduating class. I wore uniforms. Like, I didn't have any of the experiences we were portraying. Oh, that's so weird. And I had never been in a class with boys. My high school sweetheart was my best friend from camp since I was nine. I'd never been lied to.

I'd never had anyone try to sell me anything. I went to college and I wanted to have the opposite experience. So I went to USC. I thought sororities were lame, but my best friends were joining one. So I did just like you as a cheerleader. But I was the philanthropy chair of my sorority because I can't help but be a nerd. I like clubs. And I dated a boy all through college who was a computer programmer.

Like we were just so cute. I had no, I had like these dreams of making the kinds of movies I loved. And, and I remembered like, you know, watching my so-called life and loving Claire Danes and thinking she was so talented and she went on to do movies I respected. And, and I thought maybe someday that could happen. And then suddenly we were on TV and everyone was saying it was happening, but like,

We were just going to work every day and like getting offered sweet tea at like the local furniture store where you and I, Joy, were like hunting for antiques. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And nothing felt... Are you talking about the Ivy Cottage? Yes, ma'am. The Ivy Cottage on Market. Right next to that great Thai place. God. Indochine. Indochine. The best. Everyone was saying it was changing, but I still kind of felt like a little kid and I didn't want anyone to know I felt like a little kid. So I was trying so hard to be a grown up. Oh, me too. Oh, God.

See, I had come from MTV where you were looked down on if you hung out with the talent. It made you like a star fucker. Yeah, it made you a star fucker. And I was so against that. And so for me, it was really hard to be on the other side of the line. To be the talent. I didn't like how people were like treating me. And I didn't like...

I didn't like feeling like I was being coddled. God, you had so much perspective. And at that time, the only way MTV would let me do the show is if I worked hard

You had to fly back. I worked Sunday. That's right. I forgot about that. So it was hard for me to connect with anyone because I was always gone because I worked, we shot in the high school on Sundays so we could get the gym. Yeah. We worked Sunday through Thursday, Friday morning at 6 a.m. I'd fly to New York. I would film like three different shows and then I'd work again Saturday morning and I'd fly home Saturday night and then like go out.

Yeah. And then go to work again on Sunday. And I did it for the first two seasons. Oh, my God.

And it was so unsustainable. I mean, and by the way, you're being kind about that schedule because let me just tell you all listening at home, something these basketball days, right? Average for us as girls. Cause we have a two hour pre-call. Yeah. We would film for 16 hours in the gym, meaning we would work an 18 hour day and be told that's normal. It's on our quote unquote Monday.

Which means that because the later you shoot every day, the later your call the next day has to be. By Friday, we'd be going into work at 4 p.m., starting at 6 p.m., shooting until 4 or 5 a.m. on Saturday. So, Hillary, you are on Friday night, Friday morning. Yeah, that changeover. We'd Thursday night into Friday morning, we'd shoot until 4 or 5, sometimes 6 a.m., and you would go straight from set to the friggin' airport. I didn't look good. To fly to New York. It was.

I think you see over the course of the season, like I just disintegrate like a little bit more and I can see it. Joy, to your point, it's what you were saying about knowing what you were going through personally. Yeah. Like I watch myself trying so hard to spin all the plates and

Um, so then by like season three, when I was like, guys, we're done here. And then I can just commit to the show. Season three really is one of my favorite seasons because I was just able to do one thing and it felt nice and I got to cut my hair. It felt so nice. But yeah, it was, you forget how bad you wanted it as a kid. And we were all trying so hard to be these grownups who like deserved this position that

We never said no to anything. Oh yeah. Anything they asked of us, anything they said was normal. Anything they told us we had to do, by the way, I even think about like any question I was asked, like when we would do press and they would interview us, we, no one ever told us you don't have to answer a question if someone asks it. So you'd be like, Oh wow. That feels personal. Um,

Oh, okay. Like we just wanted to be good so badly that we didn't realize at times we were like coming apart at the seams. I think messy is what made us really relatable. Everyone at home was like, oh, I feel her pain. We all just carry different pain. I loved, I still love when people are like, I feel like me and Brooke or me and Peyton or me and Haley, I feel like we would be friends. And I'm like, I love that. That's my favorite feedback.

The Peyton crying in her car. I guess there's like a meme of me crying in a car. And my son every night at 7 p.m. gets online with his best friend and they look at memes that like they watch YouTube videos and like that's what fifth grade boys do. And so I guess at some point my son got curious and like saw a Peyton crying in her car meme. And so like 11 year old Gus is like, why were you always just crying in a car?

And what's kind of great is like, I know now why Peyton's like always like super messy, but it wasn't explained in this pilot. No, not at all. I mean, I liked that when I watched the pilot, I liked that because I thought there's really somewhere to go. Like, I want to understand this girl. Why does she, I was empathetic of you just didn't have the reaction that apparently a lot of other people did. I just thought she was so cool. Yeah. I thought you were such a crush on you. I always,

I'll kiss you later. I was like, Hillary's so grown up and she's so cool. Her arms are so long and slender. How'd she get like that? She knows how to use pom-poms and shows me. I just wanted to follow you around like a puppy. I was like, teach me stuff. Can I go to bars with you? You're cool. I just felt like, didn't you feel like she knew everything? I didn't, though, guys. I was intimidated by Joy because Joy had been in thinner. I had remembered like...

Oh, she was in like a movie. Like a big deal. You were the pro. I was 14, like six years before. That's amazing. So funny. I was so intimidated by your theater acting. I was just like, wow, she keeps talking about all these plays and I've never seen any of those. Like what's...

about musical theater. Like, cool. I felt like I, yeah, it's interesting thinking about it. I just felt like I had so much to learn from you guys. No, I told, I was the, I felt like what I had said before where I was just kind of

terrified inside and just like you know looking at both of you and in awe and like thought you were both so cool and so like with it and so like you were so stylish Sophia. Oh my gosh. With her no back blouses. Like Sophia had an orange halter neck top. That's when cut t-shirts were cool and that was a t-shirt that had been cut up by some girl in LA and the neck was the

It was like a men's extra large t-shirt and you'd like put the arm holes on your neck. Oh, it's so cool. Cause a girl who was older than me in college, who was in my sorority, like taking me to this t-shirt shop. And I was like, this is cool. I'm an adult on TV. I should wear this in public and put my face through some guy's armpit holes. Oh my God. It's so embarrassing.

No, but you also were like the Pied Piper of all the dudes on the show with that shirt. Like I remember a caravan from the Riverview Suites to the Rhino Club up on Market and just they were all following you like ducklings. It's just like that shirt's killing it. We had watched Nip Tuck. I didn't see it. Your episodes of Nip Tuck were airing and we all watched them together. I remember we watched.

And then we went, because we were 21 and bonafide, to a bar to celebrate. We were like, we're getting cocktails. And Greenberg played his guitar. God bless Greenberg. You know, in every dorm, there's that one guy with the guitar. Yeah. He was our guy. Ours was Greenberg. He was our guy. But not like...

Like Jake's character was not overly romantic. You know, those guys, there's always a guy with a guitar who really like, he's like, I'm the guy with the guitar. Greenberg's not that guy. He was just always, always seemed so self-confident and just sort of in his own skin. He was just cool. And he was like covering Elliot Smith songs. That's right. Yeah. He was good for the like music recommendation. He had really cute friends.

Like when we would come up to New York for MTV, Greenberg would be like, we're going to meet some of my bros from NYU. And I was always like, oh,

That's not so fun. Oh, God, I wish we'd been on those trips. I wish I'd hung out with you. I wish I hadn't been so afraid of everything that I had actually, like, gone out and hung out and done all that stuff. I was just, like, so terrified of life. Thankfully, though, we had trips. Like, trips forced us into that space. And season one, we had the hurricane. Yes. Chicken and waffles. Did you remember that? Oh, my God. It was, like, the spot. We all met.

Half of us went to one place and half of us went to the other place because it was like there's a hurricane and we all need to be in the same spots. We went for chicken and waffles. The hurricanes, that was something that was new for all of us. You take all these kids that are away from home or just what they're used to for the first time

You start filming in September and then hurricane season hits in October and we're all forced to like be grownups and deal with natural disasters and also like be on a national television show and then fly all over the country and do press. By the way, remember when people were like, Oh, are you storm proofing your windows? I was like, Oh, what a who? Yeah. How do you do that? I don't know.

I mean, I was still living above the bar, so... Storm-proofing my windows, yeah. The idea of, like, nailing boards into the wall. I was like, I don't know how to nail a picture frame into the wall, guys. Like, I'm pretty sure I can't storm-proof my house. It would be fun. Okay, so obviously now the world knows we were all so terrified to be at work and so deeply intimidated by and enamored with each other. It's good to dispel each other. Oh, my God, like...

but joy, I'm so curious for you because you know, Hill, you had done the pilot and then you came in to do these reshoots of the pilot. And then I came in and we all started working together right as soon as though, right. As soon as those were done. Um,

But what was it like to have to reshoot some of those huge pilot scenes? Because some of them are easy, right? Like you're at Karen's Cafe. It's you, Chad, and Moira. But then you had to do shots to match that huge basketball scene, like the Lucas and Nathan face-off that starts the show. Was that insane? Yeah.

to have to do that what was weird about it was that it we if I recall correctly we didn't actually reshoot that Riverfront scene we were shooting a different basketball scene on the river court for another episode and they tacked my reactions for the pilot onto that so they did like inserts of you and edited them in yeah exactly they did a really good job they did a really good job

I did not know that. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's how they did it, though. That's what I remember. That scene is so good.

It really is. And, you know, like as much as we are so, you know, we kept saying while we were watching it how impressed we were with James and how strong and intimidating and he was holding his own. He was 17 years old when you guys did that. And like so attractive and captivating on screen. And, you know, they did a really good job because with these characters too, because I really was rooting for Lucas when I watched this pilot as much as I did.

And it's a feat to have you sort of, you're attracted to the villain in a way, but you're also rooting for the guy that's supposed to be the hero. I mean, if they hadn't done that right, if they hadn't cast it right, shot it right, written it right, if those guys hadn't played it right, we probably wouldn't be sitting here today because that was the biggest moment in the pilot that I think brought people back, keep coming back. James was so sinister in the pilot, which watching now, I'm like,

How did he do that? 17 blows my mind. At the time, we took it for granted. Right. Because, like, you just expect everyone to show up and, you know, do their job. Watching it now, you know, he's not that far removed from my son's age, you know, which is, like, creepy. Wow. He's only six years older than Gus was at the time. Wow. And so, super impressive. But I remember them recasting your part.

It had originally been a character named Reagan. It was played by Sam Shelton, who's an awesome actress. Great singer, by the way, too. Great singer. Her and Zooey Deschanel had like a duo at the time. I saw that. Yeah. And she was so cool and so fun. But when I was told that they were recasting her, it was specifically because...

They wanted Nathan and Haley to become a couple. And I remember at the time, and Sam just wasn't right for that. Right? Yeah. Like those two didn't work because Sam was older than I was. So the jump from, from James to me and then her to James was just a different chemistry, really different chemistry. And I remember thinking when they told me that, like, there's no,

way that will work. Like Nathan and Tudor.

Like what? Because he was so like bad. He was so bad. In my mind, there was no way to make it work. And so it's a real testament to James's work. Yeah. Being able to take Nathan from that dark place into like a beloved daddy figure. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And he's so genuinely such a good, solid guy that there was, that was bound to come through. Yeah.

Did you know from the jump that they were going to put you two together? No, no idea. Yeah. No, I never knew that. I didn't either. And by the way, it's because I mean, I would think if I like click into a producer hat for a second, they wanted there to be that tension that existed in season one where all the fans because

because we were piggybacking the end of Dawson's Creek. Everyone wanted you and Lucas to be Pacey and Joey. Right. Or to be Dawson and Joey. We were all expecting that. That's what I was expecting. I don't even know. Yeah, we all thought you guys were maybe going to end up together. That's what I thought. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Me too. You guys never went there, did you, ever? No, I mean, we... Such a strong choice. I don't think that ever... Well, we'll find out as we keep watching because I honestly don't remember most of the first season. I mean, I remembered those moments from the pilot, but...

No, we didn't have that kind of, we just, that chemistry wasn't there. It didn't exist. That really was a good example of a male-female friendship that was earnest and like hard when it needed to be hard and just kind of...

Yeah, we didn't really see a lot of that. It didn't veer off into romantic territory. Yeah, there just wasn't sexual tension there for whatever reason. I don't know. But I think it gave... Although when Chef walked into the room, don't think we didn't clock that in Karen's cafe. Your flustered little reaction. Oh, what are you doing, Keith? Oh, my God.

Do you know, Paul, we were all having dinner at Deluxe, me, Paul, and Craig. See, while I was hanging out with the NYU boys, you were with the grown-ups. You were having a fine time, Joy. Trying to figure out where it fit in. Joy nailed it. We were idiots. No, this was years later. This was years later. I don't know if he came back to the show or if it was before he left or something. It was years later. But

had kind of gotten over my crush with him and you know but we were at dinner and and sitting there just like Paul aka Dan Scott who I love very very much but who loves seeing people in awkward uncomfortable situations it's just pure comedy to him and so true to Paul we're all sitting at the table and he goes hey chef you know Joy had a massive crush on you the first time she was in love with you and I mean I just turned like beat

Greg just looked at me and I was like, let's not talk about him. I don't know what I made up. He is such a sweetheart, though. Like, what a great guy. And we loved his daughter. Yeah. He was a hot single dad. Yeah. And we would babysit his daughter, Willow. You know what I have to say? He was looking out for us, too. Like, he really was one of the ones that was the very few people that was...

was a good listener and would, would wanted to hear how our experiences were, what we were going through, um, would give advice freely, like just really, you really cared, you know, he and Paul were so special looking back on it. And I've told you guys this, and I've, I've said it at conventions too, but for anybody who's never been able to hang out with us, when we shot, um,

When we started shooting the season, so we came back after this pilot episode, my parents came down to Wilmington to like move me into my apartment, like bring dishes, all that kind of stuff. Like I was going into my dorm. We went out to dinner with James and his mom at like one of those, you know, riverfront restaurants. And James was like, I mean, he had to have a chaperone because he was still a kid. Yeah.

And so it was almost like we were being set up to be buddies, you know? And so I was like, okay, yeah, our parents are making us be friends because we're playing boyfriend, girlfriend. And then afterwards, I took my parents to that upstairs French bistro. What the hell was that place called? Caprice? Yes. Yes.

And Paul showed up and Paul is like so good at ordering wine. Paul is so charming and he's so funny. And I think we were laughing. And at some point, like I laughed and like touched his knee and was like, oh, you old scamp, you know, like one of those moves.

And my parents' mood changed. And we left. And my parents were like, you are not dating him. Don't even think about it. And it had never occurred to me. But I was like, oh, maybe I will do that. Is that an option? Well, now the world's opened up. But when you're all new. It's also so funny to us because, I mean, Joy had the.

the smart sites, I think, but I don't know, at least for me, like, and I imagine as we've talked about it for you, I looked at Paul and

and Craig, like they were supposed to be playing our dads. I mean, meanwhile, they're only like 15, 16 years older. But at the time, because I still felt like such a little kid, it never occurred to me that they were not actually our parents age. And so now like you telling me that Jeff and Paul are the same age blew my mind. I was like, what? And when we watched the episode, you know, when I met Jeff, he was like, oh, I auditioned for that show. And I'm like, wait, what?

And my husband, Jeffrey, auditioned for Sheffer's part. Oh, my God. Wow. And he was like, yeah, you know, I like the whole, like, gritty garage, you know, that, like, edgy thing. Yes. Joy was on to something. Hey. You know? Hey. Yeah. Had El Jefe shown up in those tight jeans that Chef was wearing. Can you imagine? Yeah, I would have definitely had kids earlier. Yeah.

That's a totally different behind the scenes scandal. Oh my God. And by the way, the, the wildness of you while we watched the pilot, like this would have actually been mind blowing. Cause you talk about in that scene in the car where you stop and you like make the face at Chad, you're like, Oh, that's my kid staring back at me. It's like, what if it had actually

What if that was, I was like, oh my God, it would have been so crazy. Yeah. Watch, you know, my son is probably going to be an actor. Like,

He has already dived into directing stuff and really, really loves it. And I don't want him to do it until he has a real clear sense of who he is. Because I was so like wishy-washy and I didn't grow up in the industry the way he has, you know, I was super green from Virginia, you know,

Didn't know anything about film work. Meanwhile, he's like a pro now. I still don't want him to do it till he's 18. I feel that way about Maria. Yeah. But to see my face, my child's face in a cheerleading uniform, I'm like, oh my God, it's Gus just making those surly little faces and like super grumpy and very dramatic. I love it. Yeah, it's weird. We were babies. It is weird seeing like the kid in yourself.

Yeah. I'm protective of it. Yeah. Well, and it, it makes me a little bit emotional. I mean, firstly, let me just say on the subject of things we deserve, um, we all, cause we, we, you know, I, I'm proud of us for, uh,

caring about each other enough to have you know been at this and be such fierce you know lovers of and defenders of each other for all these years yeah and I'm I love that we're doing this and we're you know taking back our joy from a place that had so much of it but also had not joyous experiences and and it's kind of wild because I feel that too I feel so protective of you both and

And I feel protective of my young self. And I feel so protective of Brooke Davis. Like, she's a person. Like, I get surly if anyone tries to come for her. And then I have it also for Peyton and for Haley. Like, I remember some, like, quote-unquote fan on the internet, like, you know, tried to say why Peyton was a bad friend. And I was like, you don't know the first thing about what Peyton Sawyer did for Brooke Davis. I was like, wow, this is an irrational reaction that I'm having. This is not appropriate. And anyway, but I just...

I don't know. It's nostalgic and beautiful and intense a little to watch that pilot. So like full disclosure, I cried afterwards because you watch it and like the sense memory is there. Like I remember what the river court smelled like next to the river in the middle of the night. I remember like that moment.

humidity and also the smell of the lights, you know, and there's just like such sense memory about it. And we had no idea in that moment that the thing that we were making at 20, 21 years old was going to be the thing that became like the

the cornerstone of our life. When people stop me in the grocery store, like every once in a while it's white collar or a Christmas movie or something, but 99% of the time it's this show.

And it makes you think like, oh, maybe I would have made some different choices if I knew that this was going to live forever. There was no streaming then. That's right. There was no like internet. You could watch TV on internet. Yeah. That was it. Soap network. That's right. Which doesn't even exist anymore. Yeah. That was it. We had no idea what was coming. Well, we didn't, yeah, we didn't know what was ahead in terms of the good or the bad of it. What was your favorite moment from the pilot?

As a viewer? I feel like this is what we should do every episode. What was our favorite moment? Just as a viewer, yeah.

I loved Karen ripping down a new one in the car dealership. Cause now that we're, we're the age that Moira was when we shot that, like if my agent sent me those sides and was like, Hey, do you want to do this show? Like, yes, yes, I do. Thank you so much. Like she just, it was a great character. She knew exactly how to play the pissed off mama bear. Um,

And it's fun to watch. It's fun to watch Moira. She's so, so good and scary, like a little scary. You want her on your team. Yeah. Yeah. I think probably just that, that big game at the end on the river court, when the guys are facing off with each other, that was the stakes were so heightened. And I think that, and I, and I do remember really loving this, the image of Moira,

The guy who was not Chad, but doing Chad stand-in, walking across, just bouncing. The iconic image from the show. Van. Walking across the bridge, bouncing the basketball. It was such great, brilliant imagery. Whoever came up with that shot, it's brilliant. It sticks in my head. And then you and Chad at the railroad tracks always sticks in my head too. You were so natural. You felt so comfortable in front of the camera, Hillary. And there was like an instant...

I don't know that the chemistry between the two of you guys in that moment, I felt it. And it, I remember that tugged at my heart instantly on the show. I was like, I think I'm in, I think I'm in on this show. And, and, and then the moment on the basketball court really tied it all up for me. Absolutely. I agree. I, that basketball scene is just so good. Cause you know what the stakes are for these families and, and something about this sort of dynastic element of Dan Scott is what is that?

- She's smart, she went to space camp y'all. - You see?

You know, but truly this notion that this character of Dan Scott has a dynasty. Yeah. Essentially in this small town. He's like a king. Yeah, right, okay. And the element of what his hyper-masculine sort of patriarchal story is with this, you know, his progeny, his son who's, you know, next in line for the throne. And then this other kid who by no choice of his own is sort of stuck in this mess and the woman who's been harmed by playing his mother, like...

it's so good. And, and then you realize as these two boys essentially are in this gladiator battle that neither of them chose this and that it's going to affect them for the rest of their lives. I just remember thinking how elemental it felt. And, and I had that same moment of like, I'm, I'm in. Yeah. And I loved how it was constantly reinforced. It's,

And similarly, the, you know, I couldn't relate to that family story, but what I could relate to was being a part of a world, but still feeling like an outsider in it. Yeah. You know, from the outside, maybe I looked like I had it together or like, you know, yeah, I was in this club or that club or did theater or seemed popular. But I always, I always felt more like Peyton. I always felt really uncomfortable with,

sort of in the skin of that place. - You did a good job Soph, because you came in with Brooke Davis just like, "Sup bitches, I'm your win." - That's blazing. - You know, and like owned it. - But I had to be someone I couldn't relate to. And so that's actually what made it easier for me. And I always felt a little uncomfortable in a room of people who seemed like they had it all together.

And the moment that made me feel seen was the cutting back and forth, almost montage style in the scenes where Nathan's driving the school bus. All the cool kids are partying and Peyton's a cool kid, but she's not there. And she's driving her car, listening to angsty music by herself. And it's cutting back and forth between these two driving scenes. And Nathan almost drives into the train and you almost run Lucas over and everybody stops and

And it, I don't know, that was the thing that made me feel seen. Yeah. And I was like, I have felt that. I get that. What were you listening to in your car by yourself in high school? Oh, man. Woo!

I mean, Cheryl Crow, baby. Oh, who ended up coming on the show? I geeked out with her. Um, and Billy Joel. Yeah. Cheryl Crow. It's funny. Cause I grew up listening to Motown with my mom and the Eagles with my dad.

And then I got really into, I think just like being a kid who lived in LA, you know, it was the era of Tupac and the Tupac and Biggie battle. And then I was a senior in high school when Chronic 2001 came out and I was like, Dr. Dre is the coolest. So I was just like this, you know, really gangly little white girl who loved rap. That's terrible. What about you, Hill? What were you listening to? I wasn't allowed to listen to modern music really. And so I...

you know, with Peyton and all her dumb vinyl, you know, that was like who I was. The only music I could get was what we could check out at the library. Cause I didn't have necessarily money growing up to go and buy CDs or tapes or whatever. So we checked out stuff from the Sterling public library. And I remember getting like my culture club albums. Like I was obsessed with boy George.

I was so obsessed with androgyny and like sexuality. Anna Lennox, Boy George, David Bowie. Melissa Etheridge. Girl, I was on a real gender bender kick. And so Peyton coming in with a lot of masculine energy felt like good to me. I was like, this chick can kiss anybody she wants. This will be great.

Which is something that a lot of the fan base has picked up on. You know, like there is a large part of the fan base that's like, Peyton's gay, right? And I'm like, I don't know. There's still time, guys. Life is long. So, yeah, that was, you know, what was fun for me. I would love to know where all those records ended up. Yeah.

Yeah. Scattered to the wind. I know. I stole some things for you from set when we wrapped up, but they'd packed those records up by then. I was pretty pissed about it. I was like, where did they go? All right. This is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready? You

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You know, putting like OJ in little freezer things or what it would feel like to cut into a watermelon when you'd run inside and it was like 100 degrees out and you had cold fruit. I don't know. Does it make you feel snacky? The summer heat? Oh, yeah. I mean, when I think summer heat hit me with one of those rocket pops.

Or a creamsicle. You know, when the ice cream truck rolled by, it was, let's get out there and grab some cold treats. Stacked. Yeah, I think what I've realized, sadly, as an adult is that mostly when I wanted a cold treat, I probably just needed to drink water. I think I'm learning because, you know, summer is heating up as it does every year. And the thing that gives me my hydration fix and my treat is

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia and with the help of law enforcement brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things.

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Do you love witty sarcasm and talking fast? And are you longing to return to Stars Hollow for one more trip to Kim's Antiques or just to pick up a few things at Dozie's Market? It's an overnight stay at the Dragonfly and on your list of plans for a getaway is a burger from Luke's Diner on the menu for tonight. This is Scott Patterson. I was Luke Danes for 153 episodes and in four Netflix movies. I am all in an iHeartRadio podcast. Come hang with us. We're re-watching together. We're visiting...

with all our favorite cast and crew members. We talk fast. We've got a lot to say. Listen to I Am All In wherever you listen to podcasts. Ladies and gentlemen, it's time for Most Likely To...

Okay, so we're going to try and do this at the end of every episode. Who's most likely to, you know, like in high school, like in your high school, maybe you had this in your yearbook. We should ask the fans what their most likely to's were so we can get some ideas. Oh, I like that idea. I like that idea. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I feel like in most yearbooks, like the one I hear about a lot is most likely to succeed. Yeah. Are there others that you would prefer to explore? No, I mean, I think this idea of success in this first episode is such a major point because obviously on paper, Dan Scott is most likely to succeed. But as we know. That doesn't happen. That's a malarkey. Yeah, that's right. Who do we feel like who is most likely? Really succeeded in this world.

And well, I guess define success, right? In high school, typically most likely to succeed means the person who's going to what? Make the most money or build the biggest business in that way. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's different definitions to success. It's like not the kid joining Peace Corps. You know what I mean? Right. But it should be. It should be the kid joining Peace Corps. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, Karen has raised a child who loves her. And I think as like adults now, we realize how rare that can be sometimes. Yeah. I mean, a kid that communicates with you and loves you and lets you into their world is a big deal. Someone with a strong moral character who you can drop into any scenario and they're going to do the right thing. You know, I mean, that's massive success for sure. Yeah.

I think most likely to succeed is Barry Corbin a little bit, who plays Coach Whitey, who when we were shooting One Tree Hill had been in more television shows and movies, like the length of Barry's career. Yes, yes, insane.

Is nuts and like just dropped into this world of fricking teenagers and was like, guess I'm going to own this. And for those of you who don't know, no one had a better time in Wilmington than Barry Corbin. Oh yeah. Good God. We should try and get him to come, come in and chat with us. I would love that. What I would give to hear Barry's stories. Cause he just watched us. Yeah.

And like enjoyed that. The way he watches the cattle moving along. Isn't that interesting what's happening over there? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to say, I think my vote for most likely to succeed in this episode is going to be Mouth.

I think watching him on the river court do his thing. He was so driven and focused and it really set the, set the, uh, the tone for him as a character throughout the rest of the series. Everything that he was always driving at, he provided so much ammunition and, and, uh,

fuel for so many different storylines and he was just always chasing a dream, you know? And I love that about him. That's my vote. He brought a lot of energy. What about you? Oh man. I was really like, you're right. It's Karen. That's the way to go. And now I'm like, oh, both. I'm so bad at this. I've never been able to pick a thing. I don't know. I think it's funny because then I also have... Hayley, excuse me. Sorry. Something in my throat. You're like, oh, so weird. Well,

Yes, obviously. She's brilliant. But like the pilot feels very set up to give Lucas, who's always been the outcast, his first taste of success. Like that boy gets his first win in the pilot. And I think what they set up is the audience curiosity as to whether or not he's going to be able to hold on to it. Like you come back to see which of them gets the ball next time.

And that I think is a really brilliant device. I'm going to say the most like succeed for me is the town of Wilmington because this show was such a love letter to that town. The way it's shot is so beautiful and it has set up like a tourism industry that has, you know, surpassed anything I think anyone ever expected. And like Dawson's didn't take place in North Carolina. They were like cheating Cape Cod.

I guess for Wilmington for Cape Cod and so I think Wilmington came out such a winner you took this to such another level Hillary it's a metaphor y'all it's a metaphor this is why she should be running the film commission that's right hello y'all I don't join clubs anymore we're clubbed out

The Drama Queen Club is the only one I'm a part of anymore. Drama Queen, Drama Queen, Drama Queen. So next week we have episode 102, The Places You Have Come to Fear the Most. That sounds dangerous. It's because I'm showing up like a hellion. And my bad hair. Oh, please. That was a bad haircut. It was so cool then. But good God, I just, I wish we'd had...

one. Yeah, it all comes back to hair. Yeah, I'm into it. All right. Y'all better watch the episode because we're going to have some things to say. And her hot little bod show up. We can't wait to see you guys next week. Thank you so much for joining us. Have a good night. School drama, girl drama about them high school queen.

Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.