Playing with Fire • EP201
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Welcome back, everyone. We're so happy you're joining us for season two, episode one. How cute is this episode? That was delicious, which is why I'm eating a muffin right now. Because the way that episode ended, I was like...

I love this show. Juicy stuff and like just heartwarming stuff and good comedy. We had a lot of good things in this season premiere. This was called The Desperate Kingdom of Love. Air date September 21st, 2004. I have my sexy radio voice on because I'm a little, I think we're all a little hungover from this.

Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Guys, we did it. I appreciate that we're referencing this, Joy, because I think it shows the power of our show that we were all very hungover. And then throughout the course of watching the episode, I feel like I perked up. I feel much better. Me too. Yeah, for sure.

Hillary, will you read the synopsis? Okay, baby. After Lucas and Keith learn that Dan had a heart attack, they decide it is best for them to return to Tree Hill. When Deb learns about Haley and Nathan's marriage, she flips the fuck out. Meanwhile, angry that Lucas left Tree Hill without saying goodbye, Peyton and Brooke try to mend their friendship. This was an epic episode for Brooke and Peyton. I loved it. Well, for you too, dude. I

And the wedding.

You know what's crazy, though? I remember, I mean, so well, like we're like we were there yesterday, Hill. I remember us doing our boat day, boat day, beach and all of that boat day. And I think because it made such an impact on all of us. Obviously, I remember the Haley and Nathan wedding. I couldn't wait to get to that scene, Joy. I was like, I just can't I can't wait to see your hair. I can't wait to see your hair with the flowers.

I still remember it from when it aired. She looks like a painting. Just like a sweet cherub. But the craziest part is I remember so well those things. And when the episode opened with Deb's nightmare about Dan's funeral, I was like, what is this? Me too. Me too.

I mean, I see myself, but I was not in this scene. When did we do this? I have no recollection. I loved that mislead. It was a really, I thought it was a really smart way to start the episode because then everybody's like, oh my God, Dan's dead. Oh my God, he died. Well, I just remember, you know, my boyfriend and my brother are both in production. And so I remembered it because I remember how pissed everyone was that we had to do this huge scene with so many extras and with like this whole scene.

set and like props and like flowers and all that. It's like crazy set up for 30 seconds. It was. Yeah, it was a big deal. Close ups of everybody. I think it was absolutely worth it because it set a tone for the whole rest of the season. It also kind of set a tone for our series where misdirects became a very big part of our show. And, you know,

The crazy town in Jumping the Shark and like doing crazy stuff definitely became a part of our show in the later seasons. So this was a good like, what's happened? Let's start with Brooke and Peyton though, because I was so...

I was so enamored of the two of you, the way that we really got to see your friendship like it was when you were little kids. And the fact that you really have grown up together and to get all the boy stuff out of the way and all the drama out of the way and just be friends again. And yeah, you had a little tiff over the letter and whatever, but...

A, I loved that you guys on a teen soap opera didn't wear bathing suits on the boat, which I want to hear about how that happened. We won, we won, we won. You did.

Well, they did end up doing the skinny dipping thing, which was kind of cute, though. Come on. It was cute. And those gorgeous shots of the two of you, this sort of this epic friendship. I loved these iconic shots of down the dock, seeing you guys walk toward us, walk toward camera, hugging each other and just being the pals that you guys were the friends that everybody wanted to have a friend like that in high school. And we really got to see that shine in this episode. Yeah.

Well, thanks, Joy. I mean, I remember filming this. I remember Sophia and I, this was, you know, we always were kind of on the same page, but I feel like this was a time where we got to unite because in the original script, we were definitely in bathing suits.

And also it was just gratuitous and dumb. And I think that we still got the point across. But I remember us being like, we'll lift up our tank tops, but that's all you get. You can shoot it from behind. Yeah. Yeah. It was a fun day out on the boat. I wonder if that was one of the appeals of the... Sorry to interrupt. I wonder if that was one of the appeals of our show with...

Yeah.

I don't know, an example being set for me. An erotic element to it? An imitation. Yeah. You didn't have to witness people you looked up to or wanted to be like being exploited and then think that it was okay if someone exploited you. Yeah. And not that there's anything wrong. Obviously, like people wear bathing suits on TV and on boats. I mean, there's nothing wrong with it. It was just this, in this particular scenario, I feel like because we wanted to just feel safe within the friendship, it would have felt really out of place for you guys to have been

during that particular moment. Well, and our bodies, our bodies were compared all the time. We talked about this while we were watching the episode. I don't have boobs, guys. Sophia's got great boobs. And they're, you know, like, thank you, ma'am. Yeah. Well,

Yeah, we're all like mix and match. Each one of us has like good parts. But when you're 21 and you're laying next to someone else on camera in a bathing suit, there's no way that you don't compare yourself to them. And I know that I didn't want to compare myself to you too. You know, there were parts of me that I was very insecure about. And so I...

I like that we just kind of eliminated that from the female dynamic and instead had to put on nudie suits to go swimming. We made that so unsexy.

We really did. We were in like, you know, bandos and high-waisted, like nude granny panties in the water. Like nothing is less cute. Well, because I can't swim. And we established that in the scene where I went in the pool with Nathan. I knew I couldn't swim. So they're like, let's put her in the water again. Oh.

And so we were in like knee high water, you guys. It was not any like we weren't even really swimming. We had to crouch down. We were kneeling. You couldn't see the like dumb nude sports bra thing tied to us. Oh, yeah. I love that. And yeah, it was it was not a sexy day. Sorry. Hate to burst your bubble.

I loved, and I think you nailed it, Joy. There was just such a sweetness to it. And it was fun for us to play. And I think, you know, perhaps part of it feeling so organic and innocent, even in the reference to us, you know, choosing to just go out on a boat in our skirts and our tank tops. There was something really...

It was like getting back to a core of something. And after we had gone through our first season of being compared and having grown men talk to us about the way we looked and say things to each of us, each of the three of us about why we were, you know, that you're the one that nobody likes kind of nonsense. What I loved about it was that we got to, you and I as performers, but also represent on screen people

Like two girls just being girls. And Joy, you said it. You see the friendship they had when they were little. And it felt like such a homecoming for the characters to who they used to be. But I kind of felt that way even for you and me, Hill. Like I hadn't seen you all summer. We were all very like, what does it mean about being on our show? And

Because at that point it had blown up and we were the only people that knew what it was like to live in that bubble. And so, yeah, I was excited to get back to you and just kind of be like, what are we doing? You know, what are we doing? I don't know. Yeah. And it, it felt like such a nice even return to the like beginning of our friendship before our show was ever on screen for other people. And I loved even when Brooke and Peyton had the blow up about the letter, um,

It wasn't a cat fight. It was two people airing their fears and vulnerabilities and being honest that they were afraid of what it would do to them, what someone else would do to their friendship again. Yeah, great point. They resolved it in such a great way. I was so glad that it was an expression and then it was over. And they were like, oh, no.

I kind of love that they burned the letter, too. Oh, girl. Yes. That's the best part. Because it's pretext. It's really like email was sort of a thing, but you didn't really email people. A boy had to write a physical letter on a piece of paper, and once it was gone, it's gone forever. Forever. Kids, take a note. You just need to write it down on paper, and then, yeah, it's a whole different game. There's mysticism to it when you write it down on paper. I miss it.

I miss passing notes so much. Do you have boxes of notes from growing up? A hundred percent I do. Shoe boxes. Yes. Shoe boxes. I actually, yeah, I have one that used to be a stationary box, I think. And it was full of...

Full of letters that I particularly wrote back and forth with one person. And like I have them from – I would like – I have wallpaper from like hotel rooms that the wallpaper was peeling. So I just like peeled a little more. What kind of hotel rooms do you stay and enjoy? No, it was like 16, 17. I'm traveling for work or whatever. I mean, I don't know.

She's in the rundown motel with the peeling wallpaper. I'm telling you. Yeah. And for some reason, my 16-year-old brain was like, it's okay if I tear this more. Look at dumbass. This is going to be so good. But, you know, like notes, you just find whatever you could find. Napkins, your test, your whatever, and receipts, and you just pass a note. It's so fun. What do we think the letter said?

Good idea. I mean, like, what could that letter have said? He has to have been apologizing. It had to be an apology. I mean, it was very girthy. That was a girthy envelope. It was. Why did whoever was managing our props put so many pieces of paper in that envelope? Maybe it was a direction thing. Maybe they wanted it to look like there was a lot to say.

Because Lucas is certainly prolific, if nothing else. He's a wordy man. He's an author, ladies. Yeah, I mean, he's going to wax poetic for sure. Right. Yeah, our resident author is going to have something to say. Yeah. I bet he apologized. And I bet he was like trying to be, because it had to have been something that could be said to both of you. Well, because up until this point,

We'd given him for trying to game the both of us by like going to Brooke and apologizing, then going to pay and apologizing. So it actually is kind of a great move to be like, oh, I'm acknowledging that I have been a wedge in between you two. Let me address you as a unit. So there's no hearsay. Let me just like,

acknowledge that you two are a unit. Yeah. And so, yeah, I appreciate that this boy is figuring out, oh, I tread on something that was very precious and I should respect it.

Also, Chad's haircut is spectacular. So good. So handsome. I love the shaved head. Upgrade. Major upgrade. Our production always felt like they had to reference our hair changes. Kids don't do that all the time. They always feel like, we have to script in a snarky line about it. Yeah, Craig calls him Felicity. Yeah.

Because he cut his hair off. But he looks so good. It's like it was such a good move. I wonder why he didn't keep that. I don't know. I was a fan. Yeah, I thought it was great. And it gives him such a differentiation from...

But maybe that's part of it, too, because we did talk about how in season one they basically have the same haircut. They morph. Yeah, like they needed them to look more similar. So maybe that's part of the reason, too, that it wasn't until season two that he could look different. Big fan. Huge fan. And I think that the, you know, the work he was doing talking about, I need to go back for my brother. Like, my brother's on the go-home list. Yeah.

I loved that. Yeah, I loved that too. I thought that was clever, writing it on a box, on a moving box. That's a fun little staging thing. What did he say? He said, Dan's an ass, you're an ass. Yeah. Your mom obliterated my heart. Yeah.

I like that they can just be frank with each other about it. Sweet Keith. Hey, Keith, by the way, showing up with that line of like finally laying down and laying out exactly what we have been saying this whole time, that here's this guy whose every life that he's in, he just like – Destroys. It falls apart. You know, he's poison for everybody. And now the one time he's in pain and he's hurting now, everybody's supposed to drop everything, turn their life around and go help him? No. Mm-hmm.

I loved that. I'm so happy to hear somebody finally say that. Yeah, but nobody followed through. I know. I know. The lame answer. Well, he's your brother. Go away. Okay. It's all right. You can't pick your family. What's your point? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But you can pick who you're in a toxic relationship with. Let's talk about the toxic Deb finding Dan on the floor. Oh, my God. And saying, dial it yourself. Oh, my God.

Yeah. But then, okay. So I loved the dial at yourself because I was like, okay, like she's earned this moment, but then it's followed up by the, you're the assiest ass on the planet.

Why did they write lines like that for us? Well, it'd be one thing if we said it because we were children. But to have like a grown ass woman who we've established as like a business woman and savvy and like incredibly intuitive and like together, all of a sudden starts talking like a kid. It was really trite in the middle of that scenario where he's having a heart attack. I think they were probably trying to make it like...

I'm so cool. You're having a heart attack and I can just sit here and be...

Yeah. But it was it just didn't sit right. It also feels like those those terms were always the placeholders for the swear words we weren't allowed to say. You know, if it was real life, Deb would have been like, you are such a selfish motherfucker. Yeah. She wasn't allowed to say that. So then you have this woman, this like chic, smart woman going, you are the assiest ass. And it's like, no, no.

Nobody says that. Well, you know what? She pulled it off. I mean, she committed to it. That's the thing I love about Barb. She commits to every piece of it. And you can tell even when I noticed that in the chapel when she was saying, I thought I was going to lose you. Those are the words on the page most people would say, gonna. I thought I was going to lose you. I thought I was going to lose you.

And even just committing to the phrasing that was on the page is a testament to her ability to take whatever's given to her and turn it into something that sounds natural. And that's really good. So I loved the way that she handled that in the end. And then Dan going to the hospital and everybody thinking that he's going to die. And then him waking up to see Keith.

You guys, we fell out. We fell out. It was such a delicious shot. And we knew. We all were like, he's going to wake up now. He's going to wake up. And then it happened. And we were like, wow. Joy, was it you? You're like, I love TV so much. I love TV, man. It's so good. Because you know what they have to do to make you cringe. Yeah. And then they do it. And it's so satisfying. Yeah.

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But your performance in this sells it in such a strong, earnest way. You're so earnest. Thank you. And I believe Haley and I trust Haley. And I find myself being like, you know, like you made it so easy to believe something that is, you know, way out of bounds. Way. Yeah. Way out of bounds. But it is. It's so beautiful in your voice.

earnestness. And one of the things I will say that I love, and I thought this was great writing is that Nathan is so sure. Yeah. Yes. And, and the, the, all of the, this is a little crazy. Is this crazy comes from Haley. And so often we see young women being the ones who are swept up by the romance and the fairy tale. And, and, and it did something so dynamic to allow the two of you to each represent the

The sureness of the love, but also the very natural fear and anxiety and to play off of each other and to find it and to see Haley find it when she was

tells her parents, you know, I'm not impulsive. I don't make rash decisions. This is what I want. And then to see your parents have the conversation even about their young love story, it did, it grounded this thing that should be totally insane and made it feel so real

real that even me, who's like, oh, I can't imagine if I'd been that insane in high school. Thank God I wasn't. But these two should. I'm in for them. Joy, what do you remember? What do you remember from shooting this episode? Because this was a huge one for you. It wasn't. I actually remember a lot about this episode. I have...

I had a lot of sort of visceral muscle memories of the walking into Haley's house, which we really see her kitchen and everything for the first time. Also, what a strange mislead, the walking into Haley's house and seeing an African-American woman sitting at the table. And then, but it was like as though that's Haley's mom. And then it's like,

It's not. It's just a family friend. But, like, it's just such a random... Why? Y'all, Treehill has a diversity problem. I don't know if we've noticed. Treehill is, like, the whitest town on the planet. Certainly the whitest town in the South. And they were like, oh, we need to fix this in strange ways. It was...

But just so you know, behind the scenes, I think that was a constant conversation that we were always having. Just like, yeah. Yeah. And so we're going to, over the course of the show, see that introduced in like very strange ways. But this was certainly up there with the oddness.

So weird. But anyway, so we got through that. And then I remember, I do remember shooting that scene with Bess and Huey because I was super excited. I was a big fan of Bess from My So-Called Life. And obviously Huey Lewis is such a legend. And I was very excited to work with both of them. And they were such pros and they made it so comfortable. And just, we had a lot of fun. And I felt really...

seen as an actor in the moment when I would, you know, because it was so important that Haley, that her earnestness and her ability to make these decisions for herself at a very young age came through and was received by her parents. And the fact that these guys were such pros and so...

able to kind of catch what was needed within the scene and within the character in order to make the storyline cohesive. I hope I'm making sense. I know this is kind of long-winded, but yeah.

Yeah, I just feel like they knew exactly what to do. So I wasn't struggling to really prove like, I can do this. Please trust me. You know, they were hippies. You know, they knew how to just play this sort of hippie thing. So that was great. And what else do I remember? The wedding. Oh, my God. You look so pretty.

So pretty. So pretty. The dress and the hair. And we got our always and forever. We got our always and forever. It finally happened. And I also remember sitting in front of those CDs and crying in that line, I'm not even a senior. Such a good line. Yeah. Such a good line. I remembered being there and that was my first, was it my first time crying on the show? Was it really? No. Really? Really?

Oh, no, no, no. Sitting in the cafe was. But I hadn't done any other crying since then. And I was new to crying. I used to have a really hard time crying on camera. So I was glad that it. Joy, you cry.

You could cry on a dime. I do now, but I used to for years. I mean, if you ever go watch any of my work on Guiding Light, I was the worst. I was like, ugh. I would just crunch up my face, but nothing would come out. It's terrible. I was really bad at it because I wasn't in touch with my emotions at all. I needed therapy. Cut to our commercial for a bit. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was fun, crying over the CDs. And I loved that scene too. That is really how high schoolers think, isn't it? Yeah. You know, or, you know, we just, one little thing will send us spinning. Yeah. Well, also the difference in the way you look at relationships as a teenager and as an adult is very different. It's like,

I remember being a teenager and thinking that love or attraction was having mutual interests. Like, do we like the same band? What's my favorite color? Do you like my friends? Because I like my friends. What's your favorite movie? So if you had trivia in common, it felt like some cosmic thing where it's like, oh, fantastic, I found my mirror. Yeah.

And I can see myself reflected in this person and we like all the same stuff. Meanwhile, this jackass behind me, when I met him, Jeff just walked through the room. He was like, I don't care about your favorite color. I don't care about your favorite band. What do you want to do when you grow up? You know?

And so the relationship was based on where are you going as opposed to what do you like? And I think that's a much healthier way to... And Nathan wants to go where Haley's going, you know? Yeah. When he says, you're my family now. He was so sure. He was so sure. And James played it so beautifully. Yeah. I mean, the way he looks at you in those scenes, it's so...

And again, I'm just so impressed with him, you know, as the baby brother of our bunch. Like, James being 18 at this point. Oh, my God. I guess he would have just turned 19 because this was the beginning of season two. Huzzah, he's 19 and he's figured it all out. Wait, no, because we always started in the beginning of July and James' birthday is not till the end. Yeah. So he's still 18 when you guys shot this. Wow. And the fact that he brought...

that kind of a genuine earnestness to this boy. You know, he showed up with vulnerability and a kind of steadfast energy that you usually don't see in young boys. You see that in healthy older men who've also been to ding, ding, ring the bell therapy. Therapy! Yeah.

therapy on this show. And it's, it's beautiful. Do you think that came from him having such bad relationships modeled for him that there was something like, usually when people grow up having bad relationships modeled for them, I would say, usually they tend to model the same thing that they saw. And it's just a repeated cycle unless somebody intentionally.

changes that. But it seems like he's been doing a lot of internal work. Nathan seems to have become much more introspective over the last season. And I don't know, it seems like maybe he's ready for this in a way that he's so sure because he knows he's seen so much of what he doesn't want. He knows what, I don't know. Sometimes a bad example is the best example.

Because this is an entire series about kids breaking generational curses. You know? Oh, yeah. Every single character in our show is like, I don't want that. You know? I'm not going to be... You know, Hayley's parents are kind of transient. So what does she do? She doubles down and is like, I'm queen of Tree Hill. You know? I'm going to have these strong roots. Yeah.

has absent parents and decides to become, you know, a super intense parent and commit to the town and stay put and focus on community as opposed to like fame and fortune in a city. Every single care. And obviously the boys breaking the Dan curse. It's yeah. It's what the basis of the show is. So to see our male characters doing it is exciting. Yeah. I agree. This person, George just walked in. She's like generational curse. Did someone say my name?

My Me Too baby over here. You're so quick, Hillary. I love it. You're so quick. What I appreciate most about the Hayley-Nathan storyline is that your parents were introduced and we got full Hayley context that we didn't receive at any point in season one. We'd heard like rumors about what your family was and without any exposition. Yeah.

Like no one says, no one says like, Haley, you're 27 sisters, you know, but by your mom yelling, Haley's pregnant, pregnant out the window, we know that you've got older sisters and they've been down this road before. Yes. You know, like they just flesh out the family in a seamless way with, and I hate exposition. So the way that they did that was so masterful. It's really smart. So we have a,

I mean, I don't want to go to listener questions too quick unless we can sort of incorporate it in if it doesn't bother you guys, because we have a listener question that's particularly, it's about this topic, which is, do you think Hayley and Nathan's young marriage had a positive or negative effect on younger viewers? And that question was from Dominique. Hi, Dominique. Hi. It's a really good question. I actually did wonder about that when we were filming it. I was like, is this?

are teenagers now going to want to go out and get married? I did too. I wondered. Do you guys... Obviously, I'm still very connected to everyone I went to high school with and to my hometown. And so...

You know, I really turned my nose up at like being with the person I was with in high school because I was like, I'm getting out of here. I'm going to New York. But what I can say over 20 years later is that the relationships of my friends who are still with the people they were with in high school are some of the healthiest marriages I have examples of. Really? Because we've known each other our whole lives. Their weddings were like class reunions. And...

there's a shorthand there where now that we're starting to go through really traumatic life things like, you know, child loss and our parents getting sick and dying and really like big issues to be with a person who's known you your whole life. It's not for everyone. It certainly wasn't for me, but I,

It is for some people and it can really be beautiful. And being able to recognize that now all these years later, it's fun to watch Nathan and Haley because I have examples of Nathan and Haley's in my real life and I'm rooting for them still. I love that. I love that too. And I think that's a really great point. You know, it's not for everyone, but I guess that's kind of...

of the larger reality in general, right? Jeff was like 37 when we were in high school, guys. LAUGHTER

But, you know, it was for these two characters. Certainly wasn't, you know, for Brooke or for Peyton. We as characters, we were in really unhealthy relationships in the representation of our humans in high school. And so I guess that's really it. You know, I can't fathom.

being married to, you know, a person I dated in high school. But I can say, you know, my sweet baby cousin, Shelby, who is the light of my life, who you both know, she was like all in on our show. And when she fell in love with her high school sweetheart, Nick was like, we're going to be Nathan and Haley. And me being, you know, her older family member who gives her advice was like, oh my God, we've modeled this for her. What have we done? Oh my gosh. And they're married.

And they're the greatest young married couple on earth. And they're, you know, now in their late 20s. And they're perfect. And I'm like, wow, you guys did it. And I love it for them. And so I think you're right. It's like, it's a case by case basis.

And if it's not supposed to work, it surely will not. Yeah. But when it does, it's beautiful. Anything in life, we make the choices that we make based on who we are and what we're capable of knowing at the time. So if somebody feels like they're really ready to get married in high school and they're

Well, not in high school, but like, I guess they're almost out of high school. God, I don't know. You're right. It's not for everyone. But if somebody has the moxie to do it. I know. Wait, okay. So what else happened in this episode? What do we need to talk about? We need to talk about Deb flipping out. Yes, that's the one. Oh, yes.

Deb needing to place her deep guilt anywhere but on herself and taking it out on Nathan and Haley. When she said, you shut your selfish little mouth, I was like, oh my God. Between assing his ass on the planet and you shut your selfish little mouth, like, Deb's a totally different person in season two. She is all over the place in this episode.

But then it got it. It broke my heart. As soon as she berates Haley and Nathan and then walks out and just loses it. Yeah. Because you realize, you know, she doesn't mean it. She's just lashing out in pain, which is no less damaging, especially to children. My God. But yeah.

Oh, what was it like to shoot that scene with Barbara? When you put your hand on her and then she felt your ring, I was like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. It gave me so much anxiety. It was so good. I forgot that was coming. I totally forgot that was coming. And as soon as she started feeling my ring, I was like, oh my God. Oh my gosh, she's gonna ream us right now. She's just such a pro. That's one of the only scenes I don't remember being in

I don't have the muscle memory of that.

In this episode, that was one of the only scenes in the episode that I didn't remember. So you were as shocked as we were? 100%. Totally shocked. Totally shocked. Also, by the way, just a side note, because I heard the rest of the last episode that you guys did after I left. And you were saying that, Hillary, you were saying, did anybody buy that Brooke was teamed up with Peyton to- Oh, no, with Nikki? With Nikki into leaving town? With Nikki. Guys, I bought that 100%. Did you really? You did? I really did. Because, you know, again, I haven't really seen the show. So I thought, okay, this-

This goes... I could see this storyline with Brooke carrying out longer that she still has a lot of anger to work out and now she's being evil with Nikki more and...

I bought it. So when Nikki left and, you know, Peyton comes in, I knew by the time Peyton showed up, I was like, wait a second. I know what's going on here. But there were some good misleads. Oh, I love that. There were some good misleads. And this thing with the ring was a good surprise moment, too, for me. I did not see that coming. Well, and then when Karen finds Deb in the hallway and then they continue their conversation at the cafe...

You know, I'd forgotten about the Keith in front of the fireplace of it all. And so when Karen's like, Keith really needs to come back. He's so good in a crisis. And Deb just has to take it. Literally having the worst day of her life. Yeah, he's good in a crisis, aren't they? Yes, yes. So good in a crisis.

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Or a creamsicle. You know, when the ice cream truck rolled by, it was, let's get out there and grab some cold treats. Stacked. Yeah, I think what I've realized, sadly, as an adult, is that mostly when I wanted a cold treat, I probably just needed to drink water. I think I'm learning because, you know, summer is heating up, as it does every year. And the thing that gives me my hydration fix and my treat is...

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drama at checkout. That's 20% off your first order when you shop better hydration today using promo code drama at liquid IV.com. One of the things I really loved speaking of Karen and the cafe was her scene with you joy. I don't know if you remember that one, but when Karen sits down with Haley and, Oh, it's just so beautiful when she's saying, you know, I was, I was in love in high school once and,

And it faded. And my wish is that it doesn't fade for you. It was this gorgeous, like tender moment of advice. And it was really honest, but tempered with so much generosity. You know, I loved that scene. Do you remember? I don't remember a lot of it. But what I do remember is that it was, I think it was the first scene I had with Moira where it was,

and emotional. I don't know that she and I had had, she'd had a lot of those with Lucas and a lot of the, I've been around for a lot of banter and stuff, but not a one-on-one. I'm going to give you mom motherly advice right now. Kind of a scene. I actually would have loved to have seen something between Bess and Moira. I wish we had gotten to see some Karen and, and Lydia and,

Because I have to assume they were friends, right? Like if you've grown up with Lucas. Yeah, totally. You know what it is? You're the last of all the kids. And as someone with multiple children, you don't make friends with the little ones. You've already done it with the older kids. I'm friended out, guys. Done. Totally. That makes so much sense. Yeah. And isn't Haley the youngest of like five or six or something? So that would mean that Lydia is older than Deb and Karen. Yeah.

Yes. They didn't go to high school together or anything. Right. So they may not really. But I loved sitting with Moira and just having, I joy loved being able to have a vulnerable moment with Moira, even though it was through acting. It felt comforting to me because I think I had, I'd craved it as an actress and I, and I craved it as, as a person who really admired her, that I was kind of like taking what I could get. I was so happy to have an excuse to just,

be all doe-eyed and hold Moira's hand and share vulnerability with her. It was really cool. I loved that. Well, see, I interpreted that a little, like the scene, a little darker because when Karen says...

I was in love with high school too. What she's not saying is, and it was with Dan. Yeah. And we know what a bad guy he is now. And Nathan is very much his son. Yes. And so it felt to me a little like, I'm supporting you, but I'm also warning you. Yeah, that was there. That was it for sure. For me at the time, like as Haley, I don't think Haley was really...

I don't know if she was catching all that. I feel like she was. Well, when we're kids, we hear what we want to hear. Yeah. As an adult, I hear what I want to hear. It was definitely a warning of like a be careful, but also I'm here for you if everything blows up.

When it all blows up, the cafe will be here. I'll make coffee. Exactly. Yeah. You know, I like how messy the grownups are on our show. I've said this before. I feel like if I got this script as an adult for one of like Deb or Karen's roles, I'd be like, oh my God, awesome. Like great. Yeah.

Because the stories are so fleshed out and fun and I don't know how many shows are doing that, you know, younger generation, older generation thing. Even Dawson's was like pretty much just about the kids. You only saw the grown-ups every once in a while. So, I don't know. Are there shows that we need to be watching that the viewers can tell us about that have both grown-ups and kids? Yeah, I would

I would love to know. What are the favorite teen shows right now that are in this genre? Because I'm not, I don't have my finger on the pulse of that right now. Well, I don't have a teenager, you know? I'm like, we're watching a lot of Craig of the Creek. Yeah, write in and tell us. I loved, did you guys see Generation on HBO? No. Girl, if it's not on Nick Jr. or like, you know what?

It was one of my pandemic shows. I loved it so much. And I just found out they're not coming back for a second season, which really bummed me out. It's a really beautiful look at a bunch of kids in high school. But yeah, not a lot of their parents either. I wonder who's doing the kind of balanced kids at school, parents, you know. It feels like Stranger Things. It's like the only show. You know what I mean? Yeah.

The only thing we didn't have in Tree Hill was like aliens and the upside down. A monster in the walls. Oh, my gosh. That would have been season 10. This is another listener question. Courtney says, do you feel one character had a harder life than others? And were you ever like, wow, your character was really dealt a bad hand? Yeah. Yeah.

I'd like to confirm this. Yes. To this day, I still like have kids coming up to me like, how many dead moms do you have? You got shot and assaulted twice in your own home that you had to live in all by yourself afterwards. Like, you know, Peyton's crazy train was relentless. I think it's made me a much more apathetic person in real life because I'm like, well, at least it's not Peyton Sawyer's drama. Like, what's the worst that could happen to me?

Yeah, she was a rough one. Yeah, it's funny. I get a lot of that too where people are like, man, Brooke Davis just had it really rough. How many times

get punched in the face. Oh, all the time. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I got attacked and stalked and beaten and like left and dumped and betrayed and cheated on. Oh baby, baby, baby. Everything was just like terrible. Yeah. But you know, then better. But yeah, oh, the drowning. Yeah, I drowned after we left Hill. Yeah, I was in like a gnarly. God, I can't wait to get to the stuff that I wasn't there for because I'm going to be such a fangirl and be like, what?

What? Yeah, it was wild. Were you really drowned? Yeah. And Peyton didn't come home? What a bitch. I know. You missed my wedding. God. I know. Travesty. But what are you going to do? Haley, what happened to Nathan? I heard Nathan was kidnapped or something so James wouldn't have to work. He was kidnapped by the Russian mafia. What?

In Tree Hill. In Tree Hill. Ooh, baby. Dan somehow, I don't know. And then I had to like go undercover and try and fuck. Stop it right now. You put on a hot outfit. You Liam Neeson'd your own husband? Yeah, I tried like going undercover. Joy dressed up like a hot streetwalker. You were a prostitute? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was great. What? What?

What happened to our show? Oh my God, you guys. I'm going to drink so much bourbon and watch seasons seven through nine and have the best time. Yeah. We'll get there. When we get into full jumping the shark, we are definitely going to have to just start making cocktails. We need a shark sound effect that Easton can put in when we're like, shark. Speaking of sharks and oceans and things, perhaps my favorite part of this episode is

is when Keith and Lucas are like reasons to stay in Charleston and they're like, we don't have a view like this in Tree Hill where we then establish that Brooke and Peyton are definitely at the beach in Tree Hill and Haley gets married in front of the most beautiful body of water in Tree Hill. Yeah. And Brooke's dad has a boat. Guys, who?

in a beach house and dance like the whole show. I don't know why they didn't just go take... I mean, they had the money. I don't know why they didn't just take Craig and Chad to Charleston and walk on Rainbow Row or something. Like, there's just so... Yeah. There's so many interesting things to see in Charleston. I don't know why they didn't do that. Because they shot...

Their stuff, for the viewers at home, the stuff with Chad and Craig, when Keith and Lucas go to Charleston, they just shot on Wrightsville Beach. That was in Wilmington still. It was just a different side of the beach. Carolina Beach, maybe. I don't know. But it was just so surreal. No, it was Wrightsville.

When they were looking out Keith's apartment window, it was looking at Dockside. Yeah. The restaurant at the beach that we used to go to all the time. I was like, this is so funny that they're. I mean, Charleston is like, it's a four hour drive. It's like a 15 minute flight. Totally different world though. Yeah. But it's a totally different world. It would have been so easy to just. That's so funny. Who knows? No views like this in Tree Hill. Even though this is Tree Hill. Except every single one of them.

What did you guys, just speaking of cocktails, what did you guys have over Thanksgiving? What did you guys drink on Thanksgiving? Well, I was telling you guys the reason I'm hurting so bad is because Rose Byrne introduced me to something called penicillin.

Oh, yeah. Good old penicillin. But it's like a whiskey situation. From the 30s. Yeah. What is this? It's like a bourbon and ginger and what else is in it? Cocktails. It's so good. I think there's honey in it. It was magical. God bless her. I'm going to look it up. I love a penicillin. Yeah. We did sort of like a potlucky situation. And because Grant and I had to travel, we did all the wine. Shocking. Yes. And you guys are good at that.

Yeah. I mean, we literally have a wine suitcase now. It looks like a camera. Yeah. You know, like camera equipment travels in those Pelican cases. It's like one of those, but just for wine. No, it's not. This is a real thing. You guys, it's a real thing. It's so incredible. His parents got it for us and we were like, oh, sweet Dave and Paula, this is ridiculous. We will never use this. We use it all the time. It's the best gift. Yes. Yes.

So you travel with it empty and then you buy wine wherever you go and bring the wine back? Or in this case, because we were coming, we were traveling in for Thanksgiving, we brought wine. So all of the stuff that we've been sourcing at home and like from all the natural vineyards in California, we brought all of this amazing wine to Oklahoma with us and

And yeah, we did like an eight bottle tasting for everyone. And then some of us decided to finish the bottles that weren't empty. And so I also- Some of us. Some of us. Some of us. A few of us. Shall remain nameless. And so I also, like Hillary, have a terrible headache today, but honestly, it was so worth it. Did you guys ever read, speaking of hangovers, did you ever read the Steinbeck book?

That's a hard thing to say three times fast when you're hungover. Steinbeck book travels with Charlie. Oh, it's so good. Steinbeck in like in his later years decided he needed to hit the road again and packed up a camper van with his dog and was like, honey, I'll be back. And just like went and drove around America and wrote this beautiful book about

about traveling with his dog. And he talks about how, um, you have to, you know, wear your, your hangovers with pride because they're a consequence for a well-lived life and a good time. And I just love it. So on days like today, I'm like, you know,

We earned this. Last night was great. I'm sensing, I'm getting an idea here where we need to do a Drama Queens hangover tour of the United States with your wine suitcase. Like how many cities can we take your- And we can bring Maggie. Yeah, great. We'll bring a dog and bring a wine suitcase and we'll just go on a tour. Send us what town you're in, kids, and we'll show. It's like the mall tours we did, but adult. Yeah, inspired by Steinbeck and-

And red wine. It'll be great. The drama queen's hangover tour. What were you drinking, Joy? What did you make this year? I also had some whiskey. I had a nice old-fashioned, but with honey syrup instead of simple syrup, which I really liked. And I don't like old-fashions that are too sweet.

But I do love a good, you know, it's got to have the Luxardo cherry. It's got to have a little orange twist. I thought that went nicely with, I make cranberry sauce every Thanksgiving. I have my same recipe that I've been making for years. And it also has some vanilla and orange in it. So I mix that up with my.

With my whiskey. It was a very nice Japanese whiskey. Oh. Nice and smooth. And my friend had, you know, the ice cubes that are round that are proper for. Oh, yeah. Good stuff.

Joy, I like your voice when you talk about liquor because it gets really like tender and soft. And I feel like you need like a whole podcast of you just being like, and now you pour the whiskey over the ice. Yeah, that's right. It's like that Saturday Night Live skit. Like sweaty balls. But the kids don't know what I'm talking about. Sweaty balls.

Hold on. Before we end the show, I just want to say my favorite part of the last week was that Saturday Night Live last week did a skit about a karaoke bar in Wilmington, North Carolina. They specifically call out Wilmington, North Carolina, and I feel assaulted. Oh my God. Please go and look up this skit from SNL. They're like, coming at you from the karaoke bar here in Wilmington, North Carolina. And I feel like someone's making fun of me.

Of all of us. Yeah. Yeah. I saw, I saw a couple of friends from Wilmington post about it. I'm like, hold on a second. And sure enough, I want to be at that party. There we are. I want to be at that party. So that was our behind the scenes. Oh boy. Should we spin a wheel? Yeah, I want to. I'm so happy that we got to start off the new season. I just, it was really fun to see season two start up and,

There's so many adventures to be had. Who is most likely to cry watching a movie on a plane? I mean, who isn't? I am totally. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're all suckers. All right. Okay, let's pick somebody that's not us from the show. Who's our crybaby? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe Antoine. Honestly, Antoine. Oh, you're not

I love that. Yeah, he feels big feelings and doesn't like for people to know. Yes, he does. I've seen Antoine get tender. Yeah, that's right. I think you nailed it. That's it. I love that. I mean, when he starts talking about like Phil Collins and like songs that like move him and, you know, like, yeah, Antoine would definitely be the one to watch, you know, something. That's awesome.

Something truly touching. The notebook. Yeah. That's right. Okay. But what character on the show? Well, you know who gets really emotional in this episode? Why not skills? Oh, who? Whitey. Yeah. I was thinking Whitey because he does get, he's in that hospital bed, like thinking about life and getting emotional. I don't think Whitey would watch a movie on a plane.

Yeah, but what if he watched like Turner classic movies on a plane and was just crying watching Casablanca? Damn it, James Cagney. Gets me every time. He like can't turn the TV off. He doesn't know how to like change the buttons. These newfangled things. Involuntarily is weeping. Yeah. Well, I hope you all cry on airplanes. It's good to feel things. And then it is.

And then do therapy. So that's our show, guys. We hope that you guys had a great weekend and that you've got Advil and whatever else you need to get over your hangovers. Yeah. Next week is episode two. It's truth doesn't make a noise. I don't really know what that means. I can't wait to find out. Have a great week, ladies. Bye.

listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time. We're cool drama girl drama about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. DramaQueens. DramaQueens. You can see there's more

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪