Piano Woman • EP204
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Welcome back, friends. Episode four, season two. You can't always get what you want. Nobody gets a Corvette. It's the opposite of an Oprah episode. No.

It originally aired October 12th, 2004. And the synopsis of this episode reads, Brooke's smug new neighbor quickly makes his presence felt among the Treehill gang and even comes to Brooke's rescue when she is arrested for gasp shoplifting. Nathan and Haley have their first post-wedding argument when he buys her a gift rather than a much needed car.

Lucas's attempt to help Dan with rehab ends in disaster when Dan reverts to his old ways and Peyton tries to organize an all ages club and is pressured to try cocaine to seal the deal. And what's not in this synopsis, two things that feel very important. Andy comes to town and is gorgeous. The Lord hot Andy is here, ladies and gentlemen, and it is real fun to watch Karen flirt with him.

I just want to talk about the piano. That keyboard is so sweet, Joy. Your moment going, oh, I really wanted to keep it. We were all oohing and aahing. It actually made me realize, I don't know the answer to how early you started playing the piano. Was that a high school thing for you or childhood? Oh, yeah. I started playing when I was, well, look, so my grandmother who lived in New Jersey, my grandmother Doris was in- Doris? I love that. That track. Sheep.

So she was, so she, Doris, I'll go, I'll give you a little Reader's Digest family history, a little, give you some context here. So my grandma Doris did every musical theater production you can imagine from when she was young. She just, her whole life she did musical theater and opera and sang in her church choir and just was like our family musician. She had this beautiful piano in her home in New Jersey.

which is the house that I ended up growing up in when I lived in Jersey. And Doris was married to George, and George Lenz was a frequenter on the Broadway stage. Oh, yes. You posted about him before. Yes. So he was in a lot of Broadway shows and worked with Joshua Logan, who was a famous director back in the 50s and 60s.

So cool.

I could be found at that piano always just tinkering around and finding my way through it. And so I started taking formal lessons when I was 16 and we had moved to Jersey and I was in that house and just playing on my grandma's piano. So, and I kind of kept it up. And unfortunately, I didn't stick with it long enough to remember how to read music or how to...

how to play as fluently as I would like to now. So now I can sort of like figure it out for long enough to get one song, but I'm not as good as I used to be. I don't know, Joy. I don't know. You're pretty good at it. Also, I love that you are continuing that tradition because you have people in your home and you're always like putting on shows in your home and your daughter gets to grow up with that. And like to hear you talk about your,

witnessing your grandmother do that. What a cool tradition. It's important to me, especially growing up as an only child. I mean, Sophia, you know this, and I don't know what, I think you guys probably had a lot of people coming in and out because your dad's business was out of the house. But for me, we didn't have a lot of people over. So being at my grandma's and being able to see that parade of people all the time, it's something I really have wanted to give my daughter in her childhood as an only child.

You know, just for my Christmas party, we hired a three-piece band and people coming in and out. And we've got people that come over some Friday nights and we'll just bust open some whiskey. And, you know, she doesn't drink, but, you know, she hangs out. But when she does. She enjoys the company. So, yeah, I mean, music is a really big deal in our home and our family. And I was really excited to be able to translate that to Haley. Yeah.

Did you guys ever grow up with anything? Like, is there anything that you grew up with that became a part of your life, like a tradition that you've carried on as well in your, that came from your family? Yeah, it's interesting. You know, we used to also do really big haunts.

holiday gatherings with our whole family. And I think because, you know, kind of one at a time, my dad and his siblings all moved here from Canada. My aunt Judy came and became a nurse here. And then my dad came to go to art center and then his other sister came. And so it was really interesting, I think for them as a, as a family of immigrants who all chose to move to the same city so they could still be close as a family.

To have that. And then for my mom as well, you know, I mean, you know, my mom, she's like Martha Stewart, like that woman nails a holiday party. I'm sure. Oh, it's unbelievable. Like she builds centerpieces. It's crazy. So I, I grew up with these big holiday gatherings, but I think, as you mentioned, being an only child, um,

I always craved more. Like, you know, my best friends growing up are my, you know, they call them my cousins, but they're like my God siblings, like my God parents' kids. And so...

And they're a family of three. So together, you know, our two families that lived around the corner from each other for so long, we were like a family of four, basically. And we always joke that like we have two sets of parents. And so the sort of like loud, jovial experiences I always loved and growing up in a family that celebrated Christmas and Hanukkah, I was just like, the holidays are amazing. We just get to be together all the time and everybody's loud and there's always music and there's always food. Yeah.

Yeah. And so those are the traditions I've tried to carry on, whether it's like, you know, summers when I'm home hosting Shabbat every Friday and doing like giant non-denominational gatherings that way, or, you know, throwing like rolling brunches on Sundays where brunch starts at 11 and dinner starts at six and you can come for any and all. I love, I love, like you're saying a big open house full of people. Yeah.

And obviously everyone listening knows that Hillary Burton Morgan is also an iconic party thrower. We've waxed poetic about your Halloween parties. So I don't know, where do you think that the craving for like a crowd and a good chat over a good cocktail comes from for you, Hill?

Dude, I grew up in total isolation. We weren't allowed to have people at our house. Like, we were hermits. But you had a bunch of people in the house. Yeah, but there were a ton of kids in my family. And so I'm used to cacophony. Yeah. And...

But then I would retreat to my bedroom and, like, totally hide under my bed. So for me, being able to do both is really important, especially at the holidays when it gets crazy. Like, I'm very much a cancer, so I'm, like, in my shell right now. I'll crawl out, like, probably after the holiday when, you know, everything's settled. But—

I love parties because I love the theatrics of it. I loved growing up in the theater. Same as you, Joy. Same as like your grandmother. I loved growing up in the theater. I loved the idea that we could all bring our talents to the party. You know, whether that's your friend who's a really good bartender or that's your friend who, you know...

is great making finger foods or whatever. You know, I like the idea that these gatherings give everyone an opportunity to shine. So I think that's why we also are partial to, you know, scenes in our show where we're all together, when we're all on the river court, because that coming together just kind of elevates everything in a really nice way. Yeah.

We didn't get any of that in this episode. There was like one scene on the quad with Felix like poking the bear. Yeah, we had the boys playing basketball briefly when we were saying Nathan's so good at the casual conversation, but that was really fast. Yeah. It was all kind of isolated storylines this time. I don't know. I like a crowd. I think it makes everything sparklier. Is sparklier a word? It is now, babe. Friends, we all...

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The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. But Mouth is so cute in this episode. I love when, you know, Felix is doing his like bravado thing going like, yeah, I'm the new guy. And Mouth goes...

I'm the guy who's been here forever. Sweet buddy. That guy. I know. He's so cute. He's great. And they, you know, they're given Fergie lines in this episode. I like when they build our world out. Yes. Um, and it seems like they're trying to balance bringing in new people in this episode while maintaining the texture of our, our core group. Um,

So it's cool to see, you know, the River Court boys show up in the same episode where we're introducing two very big characters because we've got Felix and sweet, sweet Andy. Did you guys have crushes on Karen when he showed up? Because I'm raising my hand. Totally. Didn't we all? I feel like we all talked about it ad nauseum. Yeah. But it also, when I say I feel like, I remember in the makeup trailer, the three of us in the corner with JoJo going, oh my God. Who?

Who is that? Who is he? But it was confusing because it was Kieran and Kieran and Karen. Oh, yes. There was always some like radio confusion about who was needed on set when and how. Yeah, Kieran or Karen, Andy or Moira, what? It was so hard for everyone. We also noted while we were watching the episode that that role in particular,

could have gone real sideways because everyone's so devoted to Keith. Keith is being such a good dad figure to Nathan. He's being such a stand-up guy. He's been so graceful about, you know, Karen not wanting to be with him. Yeah. That this new Andy character flinging his money around could have been played so predatory or...

Just sleazy. And Kieran is instantly likable. Yeah. He's so charming. And what I think is really interesting is he chose to throw away

the dialogue about money and lean really hard into the dialogue about ethics and doing good. And he immediately made it clear in his subtext as an actor that the money never made him happy, but doing good things for people did. And he wants more of that. And you see Karen, uh,

and Andy bond over that in the classroom when Moira lights up. - Sparks. Oh yeah. He's speaking her language. - Their chemistry is fire. I was like, oh, I love this. - And it totally fooled me by the way. I forgot that he was the teacher of the class. So I really just thought they were like classmates. I was totally surprised. It was great. - I was like, oh my God, Karen started dating a student. Wow. And I was like, oh right, Andy's the teacher. Right, right, right, right. - That's right. - Yeah, I forgot. I was so wrapped up in the scene.

points to Andy for pushing Karen because that's the whole reason she decides to take a gamble based on Peyton's idea and open trick. We have Karen. We have Karen Rowe to thank. Karen Rowe as the owner of trick is great because she like barely shows up. Yeah. No idea. It was crazy.

To have female-owned businesses, I liked that that was something that we kind of highlighted in this because as a business owner, it's hard to walk into a bank and have people take you seriously. As a young woman, I have struggled to get people to trust me with investments, with support, and I felt very much...

what Peyton was feeling of like, hey, you are literally the only person I know who's done this. Yeah. I'm going to give you all this like, hey, sorry about my dad bullshit. But what I'm trying to get to here is, that was so awkward, right? Hey, I'm sorry my dad broke up. That actually was totally what a high schooler would do. Like, how do I start this conversation? I guess I should say, sorry, my dad doesn't, and you guys don't want to go out anymore. He's on a boat. Sorry.

Yeah, my dad was on a boat. But finding other women who have already walked the path that you are trying to walk is super important. And yeah, finding those women in real life has been, I know, really important to the three of us. We've been lucky. Sophia, you have a whole fucking podcast about it. You talked to like Jane Goodall the other day. What? I did. What? You guys.

Jane Goodall. That's nuts. She's so cool. It was so, yeah, it was so special. And it is, it's, you know, even having someone like her on work in progress, what it does is every time that someone, you know, that I look up to, or I imagine that any of us look up to in our endeavors says, oh yeah, I want to give you some of my time.

Yeah. It makes your soul say, oh, my idea is worthy. This is special. It reinforces you in a world that, as you said, makes it really hard for women to take themselves seriously because we show up in places. We go and we say, hey, I want to start a small business. And like eight guys got small business loans, but they don't trust us. It's like, do you know how organized we are? We

We're good at this. That's it. Guys, I'm dealing with like daycare, pickup, grocery shopping, bill. I do it all. If you had a real life Karen Rowe, who would be your real life Karen Rowe? Who is like the woman that you would go to? Anybody? Oh my gosh. That's really hard. It is really hard. Okay. Yeah. My girlfriend, Mondina, not Madonna. Everyone thinks I'm talking about Madonna every time I talk about her. Yeah.

Yeah, but if you are going to talk about Madonna, use an accent like that because she does. No, so my friend, Mondana Dayani, is my co-founder of I Am A Voter. She has launched so many unbelievable businesses, worked everywhere from, you know, being a lawyer to launching a fashion brand to doing voting rights activism to working in nonprofits. There's nothing that she can't do and make better. And so she's always the person that I go to.

with ideas, thoughts, fears, you know, whatever. She's so just such a good sounding board. And she introduced me to another work in progress guest, phenomenal woman named Cindy Eckert.

who is a baller. She is just like this incredible business woman. She's the woman who created this pharmaceutical drug called Addy, which is the female Viagra. She literally had a Senator. You guys, Cindy Eckert had a Senator when she went in making the argument for a basically like more FDA funding to research women's sexual health. Because by the way, Viagra got an emergency approval from the FDA and was approved in six months.

Of course it did. She's my hero. So those two women are just, I'm like, who do I know who, regardless of how they're feeling, always seems fearless, always goes for it, dreams the biggest. Like, you know, so, so I mean, obviously duh, the two of you, but people. I mean, duh, we're already together. So outside,

Zoom, it's those two who I'm always like, um, can I, will you guys tell me if I'm like crazy or is this a great idea? You gotta have people in your life like that. You gotta have people. I've got my friend, Holly Goline is the first person that comes to mind. Holly runs, um, Universal Monsters and, um, she's just putting together this incredible team of creators. And I think, uh, I don't, I'm probably, I don't know how much I'm allowed to say about what she's doing over there, but they're, they're, they've all these, all of the Universal Monsters, um,

are being turned into movies by exceptional filmmakers. So cool. And what I love about her, and she's also, you know, she's a mother and a wife and an incredible creative brain who's been in this industry just working her tail off for 20 years. Yeah. And she is so, she's just so like brazen and brave and has no problem just saying,

Picking up the phone and – but she's vulnerable at the same time, which is what blows me away, is seeing a woman who is a badass in business and who also relies on her vulnerability. And she doesn't try and defeminize herself or something. She's just – she's not trying to be like a dude. She's being herself and, you know, has no problem sharing her thoughts and her feelings and fully embracing –

what she brings to the table, not just as a woman, but as a mother, as a wife, as a friend, as a woman who's just come from the South and had all these crazy experiences in life. And she can walk into a boardroom with, you know, the biggest and baddest in any business, in any industry, um,

And she can run the room. And yet everybody walks out of there feeling inspired. They feel like they want to be better people. They feel seen. I just feel so lucky to be her friend and to be able to pick up the phone and call her and say, hey, here's my ideas. Can we talk about it? You have to find people like that. You, Hillary, who's yours? I mean, I...

I would say like alive or dead. Edna St. Vincent Millay is someone who is very dead. But she was a poet who was basically like

She was like a rock star, you know? She dominated in the male industry. She was real gender bendy. She was real like, I do, I kiss who I want, you know? Yeah, she does whatever she wants. She was super bohemian, living in the village, you know, in the, you know, 1920s. She ended up buying a property up near where I live up here and created that duality for herself between the city and the country. So I really appreciate what she did way before her time

But living up here, I would say Mary Stewart Masterson is the person who has been just like the greatest person for me to learn from because she's an original teen queen. Yeah. You know? For sure. She was an icon when we were kids doing this kind of— Oh, I was excited to meet her at your wedding. Teen drama movies. Oh, you guys spent a lot of time together on the dance floor at my wedding. Yeah.

So she understands like what we have all been through in a way that makes her really empathetic. But she's also like built the nonprofit up here that's entirely built the film industry. She trained an entire crew base of hundreds of people to do all these HBO movies and HBO series up here. And she's just opened up the film studio up here in the Hudson Valley. Like,

She's got like twice as many kids as I do. I'm just like, how do you have the energy for this? She's, yeah, when you see someone that can like do what you do, but like triple, you're just like, how are they? It's incredible. She's awesome. And so like finding those Karens is imperative. I hope you guys at home all have your Karens. Write us. Tell us who your Karens are. Yeah, who are they?

Who are your Karens? We didn't talk much about Dan yet. Dan and Lucas, this whole thing with the Corvette, if we can pivot. Yeah, there's a lot of confusion around this whole thing. First of all, Dan's been playing dead rollover and just like, I don't understand. I don't understand what's going on. He's playing like there's nothing, like he's a new man. He's asking for new chances. He's

being so sweet and then all of a sudden now he's taking Lucas out and he's trying to bribe him with the car and then he's mad at Nathan for having a job. Is it a bribe or is it all he knows? Yeah, it's all he knows. But it's just, I don't understand why we're wasting time watching people. This is why I didn't like this. I did not like this episode for anyone out there. Are we going to take a vote? Who liked this episode? No hands up. Nobody. I didn't like this episode. And I felt like we were wasting a lot of time watching people

We're just watching people give Dan chances and he keeps running everybody over. It's just the same thing over and over again. Like, I'm bored. I need something new. Okay, rant over. But he was so tan in this episode and he looks so handsome. There's such a good shot in that...

I hate when they do this thing where like in every show, the boys have to raise cars. I'm like, I've seen it a million times. I agree with Joy. I'm bored. Show me something new. Go grease lightning. You're burning the corner. The cherry on that. I've had it a million times Sunday. Was that precious shot?

There is a shot of Paul in the car when him and Chad like zoom around Felix, you know, Lucas and Dan are in the Corvette together and Paul's hair is blowing in the wind and Paul is laughing. And that's just Paul having a great time. Yeah. And I love that that shot made it in the episode. It was great. It was the one redeemable thing in that terrible game of chicken. Kids don't play chicken on the road. But you guys don't do it.

Okay, I need to send you this after we're done taping. So the meme. This is the episode that everyone makes fun of on Instagram where they freeze frame this shot of the boys racing the car. And it is definitely not Chad and Paul, like at all. It's not even body doubles that have good wigs or that look anything like them. It is two totally random men.

That they were like, I don't know, put him in the car. No one's going to care. I just can't believe they had to make a wig. You're telling me in the whole town of Wilmington, they could not find one guy who from the back just naturally had hair that kind of looked like Paul? The whole Southeast, Joy. Atlanta, South Carolina, North Carolina. Oh my God.

It's insane. That wig was... I mean, it's tough in a car with the wind blowing and everything. I get it. I know. We've got to post that meme on our social media for this episode. It's so funny. Because it's pretty horrendous. And I love that. I love it when we get caught being tacky. Yeah. That's...

For me, it's being all one color in this episode. So all of season two, you guys, my skin, my lips, my hair. I am just a beige. I'm a beige. Beige woman. Well, you have that black halter top on that somebody else wears in the next episode. And the...

And that Barbara was wearing in this episode. Oh, yeah. You and Barbara had the same outfit. You had a black halter top and a big black necklace. Barbara had a black halter top and a skinny black necklace and a big black headband. Oh, yeah. And you both had bangs.

Yeah. Well, we're morphing into the same person. I'm doing cocaine in this episode and she's real close to that pill storyline. What is with the mustache twisting cocaine guy who's like, come here, little girl. Prove to me that I can trust you with a deal. Who rips out a little teeny tiny custom mirror and a razor blade? Like what?

Gross. I have never in my life experienced drugs being offered to me as a test. No. Are you cool enough? I worked at MTV for years. I never, ever, ever saw drugs when I worked at MTV. Ever. Right? Because I was everyone's kid sister. Yeah. And they were just like, protect her at all costs. Of course.

When I moved to Wilmington, that was the first time I ever saw drugs. And my reaction was so bad because someone in like a bathroom stall was like, hey, come here. I've got cocaine. And I said, no, I ran. I like ran out of, I'm not going to say the name of the venue because I don't want to incriminate anybody. But I ran and everyone was like, oh God, she's got a serious problem. Oh, yeah.

I mean, that's the reaction I want my kids to have. Yeah. I don't love drugs. It makes me feel weird when people do drugs around me because it makes me feel like I'm overwhelming or I'm not a good enough time and I take it personally, but that's my trauma. And it also ends up feeling like a waste of time that if I'm talking to somebody that I know is high or really drunk, I'm just like, you're not even going to remember this conversation. Why am I wasting my breath right now? It's like really irritating. Gross.

Yeah. And so I don't know if Peyton did drugs in this episode. And I remember being very stressed out about that while we were filming, because then I go to see Brooke. Yeah. What the heck? And I'm like, is there anything noticeable is like, you know, it should be an irritating as people on cocaine are, um,

But there wasn't a shot. It's like what we missed from that scene was a shot of your reaction to everything Brooke had been saying. Like, I wanted to see a shot of your face to know whether or not you were sober.

Like, and you were processing all of that. Like, I can't, I don't even know how to hear you right now. Like you hug your friend, but then there's a shot over her shoulder of your face. Like, Oh God, I'm like really screwed up right now. I'm, I'm, I'm covering right now. You know that you're like totally present and sober and you didn't do drugs. Just something. We had no information. But what did they say to you? Because this is another thing, guys, it's been so long. I don't remember.

Did they say, oh, yeah, Hillary Payton did it? Or did they say she didn't? Guys, is there more? I just remember this... The answer is confusing. My visceral reaction to this episode is like that of yuckiness because I remember not liking filming this episode. I remember the drug... I was just like, what? This is so dumb. It is dumb. It was dumb. I was like, you know, have her...

smoke weed or, but cocaine's just so gross and addictive and like, I'm not into it. And I didn't like that we just kept having to escalate the trauma on our show to try to seem edgy. Yeah. That said, uh,

I remember the conversation with our director being very like, what am I doing in this scene with, you know, like the band guy that was giving her the drugs? And she's like, well, we want you to lean down like you're going to do it. And I'm like, I'm definitely not doing that. And it just being kind of like, it just wasn't a fun day at work. I don't like drugs, kids. I joke about it all the time, but like for real, they're real dumb.

Yeah. Does that storyline continue? Do we know? Does anyone know? Yeah, it's like the whole reason Greenberg comes back. Oh, because he hears that you're... Because I've gone down the dark side. You've fallen from grace. It just was signaling some weird stuff to me that we'll get into, I think, in future episodes where her whole reason for doing it is like...

kind of vague and weird and I get it. Like people self-medicate all the time and I have empathy for that and like, you know, we all function in different ways. Yeah.

I just want to know who was in the writer's room and said, let's have this band guy, you know, give it to her as a test to see if she's cool. And who didn't, like, who said that's a good idea? I think it's a terrible device. There are so many better ways to get Peyton into drugs. Show me your boobs, kids. There are a lot of bad devices. Of course my husband walks into the room as I say that. He can't hear because I have headphones on. So he's just like, what?

conversation are you having right now wait but guys I actually think this is an excellent moment and joy you said it there there are many terrible devices in this episode and we're just gonna gloss right on over one of them but we have to mention it the not even subtle amount of

Again, bad choices in the writers room. How did no one say this is a terrible idea? The not subtle amount of just pure racism that they know between Brooke and Felix is so...

ugly and I hated it then and I hate it now and I I remember the actor who played Felix was also like yeah I feel pretty weird about doing this because I'm Filipino I don't speak Spanish like they hired an Asian man to play a character who was supposed to be mistaken for I

A Spanish speaking person. I just was like, oh my God, the lack of sensitivity on every level was so cringy, like cringe everywhere. Yeah.

We can tell on your face in this episode how not into it you were because you generally are like a flirty lady. Nope. There is very little flirt. There's rage. I don't want to be doing this. I don't want to be here. I think this is inappropriate. It is a very Samantha Jones storyline to me. It is. Looking at these two and, you know, the way that, you know, the way that you kind of

toddled around on your heels after him and, you know, the, you know, pool boy, pool boy. It's, it's very Samantha Jones. I mean, you know, which by the way was the same era, you know, during the early two thousands, we weren't having the conversations that we're having today. And I think sensitivity was like, well, that'll ruin the joke, you know? Right. You know what I will say? I love that. I love that piece of feedback from you, joy, because I,

I was so upset about it. And I knew that they were putting the actor playing Felix in a very weird position. Oh, totally. Because he was like, this is not actually my heritage. This all feels really uncomfortable. Yeah. But I got a big break.

break, you know, it's a big break for him. And, you know, we, we only win so many battles as young, utterly powerless actors. And, um, I will say the, the only way I knew how to do any version of it working was to pull inspiration from Samantha Jones. I appreciate that you saw it and it makes me feel very special as a huge sex in the city fan. Thank you.

Totally saw it. You're welcome. You're welcome. And your outfits were super cute this episode. You guys, I loved those plaid pants. Oh, those were so cute. I loved those plaid pants. I would wear those plaid pants today. I know you would. How many plaid pants do you have in your closet? Okay, listen, that's not fair because you know that I have a lot because you've seen my closet and I feel seen and attacked.

Listen, next time we do a photo shoot, we're all going to wear Sophia's plaid pants. I'll bring everybody a pair of plaid pants. You know what I did like, though, as much as I hated that? This is where we begin to see the actual, like, fear and self-doubt in Brooke. And Hillary, you said it. People self-medicate in all kinds of ways. Yeah. Yeah. And this is when we begin to pull the curtain back and realize that Brooke has always been

self-medicated with money and boys. Yeah. And now one of her tools to pretend she's okay, to pretend she's really secure in herself is being taken away. And she starts leaning hard in the other direction. And I just...

I just loved those scenes between us. Well, the best line in the episode is, I love being rich. I'm good at it. Oh, honey, I want that on a shirt for you. It's so good. It's so good. I also loved the ability in playing her to be able to lean into everything.

this really rare opportunity to have a mix of real vulnerability and pure comedy. Yeah. Like that scene is so funny to me and it's also so sad and you don't get that a lot. So I loved that opportunity as an actor. No, that was perfect. Um,

Those kinds of like vulnerable revelations in this episode were the redeeming things. And Lucas, Chad had one as well. When he gave the whole little speech to Nathan, he's like, Dan almost died. And I was like, I guess I'll never get to know him. And so now that we get the second chance, I feel like if I don't get to know him...

am I screwing up again? You know? And I know a couple people who have had parents pass at a very young age and really struggle with that. It's like, oh, I missed that chapter where I was going to figure out what made you tick or, you know, like what made you behave the way you behaved when we were kids. There's a lot of remorse. And so Lucas-

you know, leaning into that was sad. That's a sad thing to have to figure out at such a young age. Yeah. I agree. I wish I had more to say about it, but I think you nailed it. I thought that those scenes were really beautiful. And yeah, I agree. It really hits the nail on the head. There's

There was that moment where the three of us were watching the episode and we saw, you know, Chad come out from the back and hear Moira and Barb. So Lucas comes out. Here's Deb. Oh, yeah. You know, talking. And we're like, don't be a mom. Do it. It's not your responsibility. Don't take the bait. We're all screaming at the TV. But but him taking the bait.

You see that it's because this young boy is trying to determine, am I going to miss something? Could I maybe be the answer for this person? It's so much responsibility and emotion to try to navigate as a teenager. I'm glad we got to see it on our show. We did scream at this TV like it was a horror movie. It's like, Dan is the haunted house. No, Dan, no.

Don't go in the hall. Don't go upstairs. Don't go upstairs. That's what I was just going to say. Oh, man. Well, you know, and Dan's got that killer line in this episode, too, where he's like, it's hard to be less than what you once were. Yeah. And...

What a depressing thing to say. What a depressing thing to feel. That sums up Dan's outlook on life. Anyway, it's why he thinks he's such a victim of everything and everyone, because he thinks that life robbed him and has turned him into something less than who he was. And it's like, that's actually the crux to me. It looks to me to be the crux of all of his behavior, everything that he does. Yeah.

He's just, you know, he's a victim in his own mind. It was weird to me that the turn, I mean, maybe I wasn't paying attention or something, but the turn when Lucas tells him that Nathan's working at his shop and all of a sudden it's like Dan just drops the act that he's had on for the last couple of episodes of being a reformed

You know, formed guy. He's a nice guy now. And then all of a sudden he gets that and he's like, we're done here. And turns around and starts walking back. Like he's done with the walk. He's done with Lucas. It's just throw it all out. It doesn't matter. All of it. But we knew this was coming. Nobody believed that you were actually changed. Yeah. I will say...

There were two moments that felt weird. And then suddenly them kind of like being in an argument in the car. Remember, Joy, you said, did they delete a scene? Like what if they cut out a scene? They had to have cut a scene out. It was so random. It was so random. But what saved it a little bit, those weird turns that they put in for Dan, for me, was Keith going, he's emancipated. Yelling at him like, who cares? Like the kid,

Come on. Like you can't end his marriage. I just loved it. It was Craig. Shepherd delivers that line. Oh, well, what? The scenes between Nathan and Keith this episode were magic. Yes.

a family project i thought i was gonna cry so sweet and innocent like genuine and sincere oh i loved it i loved it it was so sweet you know even that moment oh and they played it so well when keith is giving nathan advice on how to you know fix whatever the fan belt or something in the car i wasn't paying that close of attention to the car fix that car part all the car part um when

when Nathan goes, "Oh, well, my dad never taught me this stuff. You know, he didn't want me to..." And then he realizes and Keith knows and instead of it turning into some shameful moment, it turns into this sweet thing where he says, "Hey, we can do this together. Like, I'll teach you.

Yeah. You said a good thing. Do you remember what you said in that moment? Probably not. What did I say? You go, ooh, Keith slept with Dan's wife. Oh, yes. Now he's parenting Dan's son. I was like, oh, snap. That was, you know, it was, there was like a look on Dan's face when he found out that he was working at, that Nathan was working at the dealership. Yeah.

It was all just so triggering because it was like, you f***ed my wife. You're fathering my son. Like, I am about to explode here. You know, like, you're running my business. Like, right now, Keith is in charge of, well, he's not in charge of Deb, but he was for a minute. He's in charge of all the things that Dan loves or says he loves. Yeah.

It's a vulnerable position to be in when you thought that you had total control over everything. And Keith has become the person that everyone Dan loves leans on because they don't want to lean on Dan.

And he looks so good with that fresh shave and that handsome cleft chin. And his cute little chin. Aww. I love, we call it a superhero chin in my house. You do? Because Gus, my son, we call it a butt chin too. But we're like, yeah, Gus, if you want to be a superhero, you have to have a chin like that. And so he's convinced he's going to grow up and be a superhero. Aww, that's smart, Mom. That's good.

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Or a creamsicle. You know, when the ice cream truck rolled by, it was, let's get out there and grab some cold treats. Stapped. Yeah, I think what I've realized, sadly, as an adult, is that mostly when I wanted a cold treat, I probably just needed to drink water. I think I'm learning because, you know, summer is heating up, as it does every year. And the thing that gives me my hydration fix and my treat is...

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Guys, we have listener questions. Should we try? Should we? Probably. Okay. So we have the first one is from Bethann and she asks, why was there never a Christmas episode of One Tree Hill? By the way, Merry Christmas, everyone. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas. Uh,

Yeah, you did. This is our Christmas episode of Drama Queens, but not of One Tree Hill. Why was there, closest we got was Thanksgiving. So why was there never, why didn't we ever do a Christmas episode? Were we off the air in December?

Yeah, I don't think we ever aired the week of Christmas. We went through the end of November or like December 10th, but then we would always go off the air for three weeks for the holiday break. But even December 10th, that's still in the month of Christmas time. The holiday, we didn't do, we didn't, you know, nothing.

Yeah, we didn't even have like a pagan solstice thing or nothing, man. I feel robbed. A midsummer. A midsummer. Horrifying. There's time, girls. We'll just. I'm into it. Yeah. I got a big back deck. Come over. Yeah. Have you guys ever done a Christmas episode of a show? I'm trying to think if I have. I don't. I mean, besides all the Christmas movies that we. Oh, Christ. I totally blocked him out. I was like, hold the phone.

the phone. I mean, we've lived in Christmas land for a while. You know, I will tell you, for all the years that we couldn't necessarily get back together and, like, there was all the pressure to do a reboot, do this, you know, like, people, it's the question that everybody asks always, always, always. And so taking control back and just, like, casting our friends in Christmas movies is

And getting to work with our friends in Christmas movies was such a healing thing for me. And plus, like, you know, you get to kiss all the boys that you didn't get to kiss on the show. I was like, Buckley, I missed this train on Tree Hill.

Come aboard the Christmas mobile. Yeah, it was... I love that I got to work with Antoine in a lot of those. Yeah. And Tyler and I have done three together at this point. And...

You do those jobs because they're fun and they're short and they pay women well, which is very important in our industry. And it's programming that like my kids can watch because Lord knows they can't watch this show yet. Oh, my God. Not just your kids. Are you kidding? I spent many a cold winter freezing my ass off missing you guys in Chicago. And I would just watch your Christmas movies and be like, there's my friend.

friends. Merry Christmas. Joy, did you do one with Chantel's husband, Victor? Yeah, I did. And that's the other fun thing is that we're all like interconnected in a way through them because it's a very small Christmas bubble. It is. It's so great. It's one of my favorite things to do. I really love it. But if we did do a Christmas episode of one, two, what would be like who does what? What happens? Well, someone's going to end up in the hospital. Somebody has to. Somebody has to.

Who is throwing? Is Brooke throwing a party? Who's throwing a big party? If we were going to go, okay, if we were planning our fantasy Christmas episode, it makes me think of that giant Thanksgiving episode joy that we did where everyone went to Nathan and Haley's and like the one I directed season seven or something. You directed that? I directed that one. You did? Yes. Oh my gosh. It all blurs together. I can't wait. Well, then that's why I loved it. But I would want to do something really big like that. But I also feel like

We didn't get to travel that much until the later years. And I think we deserve to go somewhere really fun in the snow. I want to do like a winter wonderland Christmas episode. We should cut down a Christmas tree and decorate and have a snowball fight with all the kids. Like I really want to lean in hard.

Yeah, I'm in. I'm going to request a living nativity. Like, I'll bring the donkeys. I love it. Haley can just have another baby. We'll just stick it in the manger. No, I'm definitely not having another baby, but I will bring you livestock. Haley will have a baby. She's the one cranking them out.

churn them out i love that plan yeah what's you guys's fantasy and because kids are only allowed to work so long my twins can take shifts you know like we can have one boy and the nativity but it'll be the two you just talk to one at a time exactly it'll be like the olsen twins they play one character let's do christmas carols around the piano and well you know somebody i'll cook karen i'll cook

We'll just have everybody do some sort of trope attached to their character. That was the thing that I missed on our show is that when we had big events like weddings and stuff, there were always parents that were missing. You know, like when Peyton and Lucas got married, dads weren't there. She has two alive dads that weren't there. So in a perfect world, any gathering that we're all going to do together would have –

All of the living relatives show up. Everyone. Yes. I agree. I agree. I wonder if we could get Craig to come back. Yes. He could be the ghost of Christmas past. Yeah. If we're doing a fantasy. That's it. We do a Christmas carol. A one trio Christmas carol. Who's the Scrooge? Who's the Scrooge? Yeah. Dan?

It has to be someone who we're rooting for to come into the light. It has to be Barry. Barry's so good at playing a grump, and then he's so sweet. I love it. Camilla, Camilla, Christmas is really difficult this year.

Oh, gosh. Sweet. Do we have other questions? There's one more. There's one more. And it says, if you could only spend Christmas with one One Tree Hill character, who would it be? But Hillary, I think you answered it. We want to be together. Yeah. We don't play that game. No.

No, that's kind of, it defeats the purpose. Yeah, we're a cult, guys. We all need to be together, and we're all going to get matching tattoos, and it'll be fantastic. All right, are we going to spin a wheel? Spin a wheel. Spin, spin, spin, spin, spin a wheel.

There we go. Ooh, interesting. Oh, Lord. Well, I guess he was introduced in this episode because he had the cash to do it. Most likely to go to space. Yeah, I think you nailed that, Joy. Andy. The subtle drop of Andy's net worth in this episode. I think it was meant to be alluring.

Do we think it was meant to be like a, ooh, he's rich too. Did he say, I missed it. Did you just flat out say I'm worth 500, oh, 50 million? 50 million. He said he sold his company for $50 million because he wasn't happy. I sold my company for $50 million. Yeah, God. Ugh. Just doesn't taste right. I don't know. I think it was meant to be impressive and so shocking for a small town like Treehill. Yeah.

But they could have, you know what I'm saying? Some kid with a newspaper or a magazine could have walked up to him and been like, are you Andy blah, blah, blah, whatever his last name is. So someone else could say it. Yes. Somebody else just says, man, I'm like, I admire you so much. Like I followed your business plan. I can't believe you sold your business for $50 million. It's so amazing. Blah, blah, blah. And then you see Karen's reaction. Why does he have to say it?

Girl. Well, well, well, I don't disagree. That would have been cool. Also, I'm in my head. I'm seeing newsies just like, hey, mister, I see you. That's what's happening, first of all. But where's Kenny Ortega when you need him? He only said it in the scene on the river after she said, it's a lot of money if my Google searches are true. Then he told her.

So she admitted that she searched his net worth on Google. Okay, so it's not so bad. Yeah. I missed it. It's less cringy. It's not first coffee date talk, friends. Save it for date three. I'll give you $1,000 for a cup of coffee. I hated that line. Oh, God. I just think blanket statement, no one, but no one should be rich enough to do shit NASA can't do. Just pay your taxes, please, so kids can go to school. Pay your taxes.

Yeah, yeah. That'd be great. And if you want to go to space, go work for NASA. What are we talking about here? Right? Where they actually like train you? I don't know. That's a rabbit hole. So in real life, though, which cast member do we think is like, yeah, sign me up. This is going to be fantastic. I would go. You would. Guys, I went to space camp. I would go. Oh, that's right. I loved it. What's your favorite planet?

Honestly, because of the color scheme, Jupiter. I would not have guessed that. Really? It's so something that would show up on that Instagram overheard LA page. What's your favorite planet? Honestly, because of the color scheme, Jupiter.

I sampled the colors of Jupiter's storm to do the paint in my house. Like that's a thing I would say. I didn't get in this moment. I'm realizing I should. Cause it's all my favorite colors. All those sand and terracotta tones. Bring it home. Yes. I love it. Oh, you guys. All right. Well, this was kind of a want, want episode, but I had fun cutting it apart with you guys. I did too. I love you both. We had some real fun glimmering things. Um,

Next episode is episode five, one I actually remember pretty well. Do you guys remember Dare Night? Oh, yeah. Dare Night. I Will Dare is next week, ladies. So prepare yourselves. Oh, dear. Here comes trouble. I just know Brooke Davis is going to do something stupid and I'm going to feel embarrassed. Real bad.

You guys, it's been real. So we will see you so soon. We hope you had a wonderful holiday. Thanks for hanging out with us. Thank you. Happy holidays, everyone. Yeah. Thanks for making us a part of your holiday. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH. Or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're school drama girl drama about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our Comet Girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be smart, old-fashioned, but you're tough, girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens.

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Oh, I love everything about being in my 40s. I feel more successful. I love like my work. I love my family. I like I feel so secure in everything except some of my hormones. And and what I'm learning is that everything is tied to this like gut health and internal health. And so when I can find a company that's

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.