Oh Nicki, You’re so Fine! (with Emmanuelle Vaugier) • EP120
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Hello fans and hello my favorite girls. So I just wanted to pop in and say hi. As so many of you know,

Me and the gals. I mean, come on, ladies. We are busy. We have stuff going on, and miraculously, we've been able to make our schedules work. But we are on a crazy week while I'm up here in Canada filming my new show, Good Sam, and Joy is also in Charleston filming a movie, and we could not...

no matter how hard we tried, get a moment where the three of us could get on a Zoom together. It was two of us for two of us. And so here we are. The gals are going to take you through this fabulous episode. And I must say, it kills me to not be there with my other bad girl, Emmanuelle Vaugier. But hey, here we are. I know that she is in good hands.

with the gals and this is basically just me popping in to say wish I could have been here with all of you at home and my loves my sisters Joy and Hill I can't believe you get to interview Emanuele without me but I love this I can't wait to listen to this episode and obviously be reunited on the next one I can't believe we're almost at the end of season one what? this has been perfect I love you guys first of all you don't know

Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Episode 20, What Is and What Should Never Be. Air date April 27th, 2004. Wow. Welcome, guys. Welcome to Drama Queens. Um...

Hey, it's kind of a special, it's a special episode today because Sophia is off on her fabulous new show, Good Sam, and we are so proud of her. But she is, her schedule prohibits her from being with us today, but we have an amazing girl in place of her. Another bad girl. Another bad girl. Hillary, take it away. Oh my gosh, you guys. I think we've made it pretty clear that we've got a big crush on Sophia.

on Nikki, our very own Emmanuelle Vaget. So let's just bring her in here. Let's bring her in to hit up episode 20. Hello. Hi. Hi.

Oh, look how beautiful you are. Oh my gosh. It's great to see you. Oh my God. Thank you. So great to see you guys too. My God. Have your ears been burning? Cause we have just been talking about you for weeks now and about what a good badass you are. Well, thank you. I, I was, um, I listened to the podcast episode cause I was like, okay, I got to listen to it. I've seen what's going on. And, uh,

I listened to the one, the Sparkle Pits. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh, no. Wouldn't that have been great? Right. Were you a cheerleader in high school? No. Well, growing up in Canada, it's not as big of a thing. Oh, it's not a thing. There are cheerleaders, but I mean, had it been the way it is in the States, I would have been like all over it because I love that stuff. But yeah, it's not, it's not at all the same thing. So no, I was...

I would have made a terrible cheerleader. - No way, it's not too late. We can start like a midlife squad. Like I feel like people do weird things for exercise. - I'm so into that. - Where are you right now? - I'm in Vancouver, Canada. - Vancouver, fantastic. I geek out over you, Emmanuelle. Everyone knows that Peyton had a huge crush on Nicki, even though it was suppressed.

I think that's where all the tension comes from. Yes, we saw that. So there's so much to talk about with this episode for me, because this was kind of like a sleeper hit episode for me, because when it started, Hillary and I were when we were watching it, we were like,

like, this is kind of, it's just a catch up. It feels like we're just catching the audience up on a bunch of stuff. Nothing's happening. I don't understand what this episode is. And then it's spun into so, but all this tension between Nikki and Peyton, between Brooke and Peyton, between Dan and Deb, the sort of release of Keith and Karen finally letting each other go. And Haley throwing her first party, which we have to talk about at some point. You did such a good job.

Thank you. Yeah, so let's get into it. So I loved seeing Nathan in a new job.

And I loved also the Peyton Lucas armpit action on the basketball court. Can we talk about that for a second? What was going on? Awkward episode overall. Yeah, they decided to kick things off with a little sexy energy of like Peyton stretching out Lucas's shoulder. What was that? Is that a real stretch? Yeah.

But they didn't even show you stretching his arm. It just, the shot was like slightly below his shoulder. So it really just looked like you were in his armpit, like just digging around for a minute. But it only lasted like a few seconds. And then Sophia flies with his leg. What is this? What is this? And it's like this awkward, you know, yeah, armpit moment. Armpit love. That's not what we're going. That's not sexy, guys. That's not fun. I mean,

I mean, so like we have immersed ourselves in like the high school drama of it all, which we see on full display in this episode. When you first signed on for One Tree Hill, what did you know about what you were stepping into? Because you really did come into a tornado. I had no idea. I mean, like they, you know, they brought me in to read. There was just limited sort of information about it. All I knew was I was the new sort of... Batty? Yeah.

You can see. The baddie sort of, yeah. I mean, and all that it was is just what was revealed in the sides, really. And it was the two scenes, like the carousel at

episode which I hear was very controversial like I was like I'm listening to the next podcast I'm like uh-oh what did I what what happened I don't remember anything what am I stepping into um but uh but it was that in the you know the bar scene where I'm sitting at the bar with with Lucas and um and we're talking like the the bus of the crashing of the I remember that being like the audition scene

Yeah. That's all I knew. The magic trick scene where you're like lighting stuff on fire. Was Nikki a pyro? You know, she might have, from the way things look at this point, a little bit of a pyro, a little bit of a witch. Oh yeah. Okay. Let's go down that road. Can we go down that road? Let's do it. Is Nikki a witch? I'm asking as a witch. I think she is. I think, I think she's a, a dark witch. I don't think she's a, she doesn't work for the light. Right. She's not like a, a

a farm witch or a kitchen witch. She's like, no, I strictly work in hexes. Yeah, she's an angry girl. She's an angry girl. She's the picture of, like, what you see when you look up witchcraft in the dictionary and, like, you know, there's some evil-looking, you know, sorceress-type thing over a crystal ball and, like, flames behind it. Yes. But you know what...

There's a difference because that is sort of an easy trope to play, but you added more layers and you, that's, I think one of the things we always loved and respected about your performance is that you, it wasn't just, haha, I'm the bad girl twisting my mustache and, you know, perking my eyebrows. Like there was some substance behind all,

where Nikki was coming from and you could see the pain in spite of all of her bizarre antics. And I mean, was there a lot of character work for you when you, because there were so many scenes when you were like trying to get Jake back together with you and you seemed really sincere. And I believe that this is something Nikki actually really did want. She was just in her own way so much. She didn't know how to really go after it and, you know, clean up her life. But I'd love to know about, if you remember Nikki,

Any specific character work you felt like you had to do to prepare for this or to get into it? I remember my main thoughts on it were, you know, it's like you said, it's easy to fall into the trope of like, I'm just going to be the big bad, you know, and come in and the mustache twirling, like, and the big, like, screw you, everybody. Watch me do this. So I try, I remember thinking and saying to myself, you know, there's got to be a reason people

can relate to her, like her, even though she's vile and her actions contradict some of the things that she says or some of the actions that she's had in the past. So there needs to be vulnerability and some sort of redeeming qualities about her that are genuine. But like you said, because there's so much, her life is so much of a mess.

uh that that stuff overshadows uh you know it pulls her out she has moments of clarity and kind of wanting to be that person but then inevitably she's so stuck in that world of like survival and everyone screwed her over or in her head that's you know that's the story um but yes but not falling in like that was the main thing i was like

making a big effort not to fall into the trap of just being the villain, so to speak. Well, she's like the teenage female Dan Scott. You know, both of them have kids that they're not necessarily ready for at a young age. Interesting, yeah. Dan disappeared on Lucas, and so Nikki's trying to do the opposite. She's trying to, you know,

come back and make up for things. And it's not going the way that she thinks it should be going. And that's frustrating. And then every time she thinks she's helping someone like Lucas or

Or she meets Brooke tonight in this bar. She's like, I'm going to help you. I'm going to do you a solid. And then everybody turns on her. I can see why Nikki is just like, I hate all of you. You guys are so messy. I tried to help you. You ruined it. I tried to help you. And this is what I get, even though Nikki takes it always like one step too far.

What cracks me up, though, is in the party scene I'm watching, I was like, okay, mental note, you can't drink that much straight vodka. Like, I'm constantly, like, I'm just downing vodka. I'm like, I'd be on the floor. Yeah, I would, too. Re-pouring it into, like, the... Brooke is mixing, like, beer and liquor, and I'm just like, no, no, don't do that! Terrible idea! No!

Had you ever worked in Wilmington before? No, that was the first time. And I loved Wilmington. It was like such a, I mean,

Just such a quaint, sweet town that I wish I'd gotten to see more of. I think I ate at every restaurant on that row. Oh, yeah. One main road. Yeah. And and I remember like always like either like Paul ended up having similar schedule. We had time off. So we would all and I would hang out a lot. And I distinctly remember where he lived in downstairs. There was a restaurant. He would keep like a case of deluxe in the back.

Yeah. I don't know. What was it called? It was Deluxe. And it was Deluxe. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They had that like fabulous steak that was like blue cheese on top of some like, you know, back then we were all mystified by the fancy food below Paul's apartment. But Paul's a good date. Paul's a good person to explore any town with. Yeah. Were you at the Riverview Suites?

I was. It was like our dorm, really. Because Antoine was there. Who else was there while you were there? Jake, Brian, Jake, Brian Greenberg. Yeah. Yeah. I think we were neighbors at one point. Like it was, yeah, it was like, it was like a dorm. It was, it was pretty, because yeah, everyone was there. That was the, it was that hotel. And then there was the other hotel at the end of the row there.

It was down. Oh, the Wilmontonian? No. No, you mean the one on the water? Yes. Yeah, it was like a Hilton, I think. Oh, okay. I remember thinking, I was like, oh, that's a fancy hotel.

We've also been raving. We've been raving about Greenberg on this show, too. I think we get in trouble because we put him on a pedestal and we're just like, Jake, Jake, Jake, Jake. But he's so easy to love. Jake, Jake. For you, had you and Brian ever met each other before or you were just immediately, you know, thrust into this young parent lifestyle? Yes. And we were thrust into it. You did good work together. Yeah.

Oh, thank you. He was easy. I mean, like he was really easy to play. I mean, everybody was so wonderful and great to work with. It wasn't like, you know what I mean? Like everybody was solid and just brought, you know, brought their A game to the table. And it was like such a pleasure to be on set with that. Well, I'm just going to say it too. Emmanuel, we were all intimidated by you because you were so good and you were so pretty and you were just like a force. And so I think we all brought our A game because we're like, I

I mean, I can speak for myself and be like, please like me, please like me. I think you're so cool. Oh my God. Thank you. You're so cool.

I remember just being like, okay, all these guys know each other and they're, you know, it's like being the first new kid at school. Cause I was like, oh, they're all. And I was like, I hope they like me. I hope I'd be like, okay, I'll just stay quiet and stay to myself. I know Paul. So was that the Canadian connection? Is that how you two connected? You know, yes and no. I had run into, I can't remember if that was the first time.

Paul and I actually hung out and became friends. But I remember coming up to him-- maybe it was there-- and I said, you know, the first time I met you, it was when I first moved to LA. I was like 19 years old. And I was walking down the street in Beverly Hills with my little teeny tiny white teacup poodle. I remember the poodles!

I was going to the coffee bean to get a nice blended vanilla ice blended because that was my treat for the day and I'm walking up and all of a sudden this great dame rears up on its hind legs and like it's like oh my god and I look over and Paul this tall handsome you know dude he's like oh hello and starts talking to me and and that's how I met Paul

You're like, is your animal going to eat my dog? Yeah. It almost ate my dog. That dog was bigger than I was. That was Damascus. Was that Damascus? Was that his name? Damascus, yeah. Of course Paul had a great day. Of course. Bed tracks. Friends, we all...

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Brooke and Peyton. Let's start with there. And we're getting into this great fight, which, well, let's start with Brooke and Peyton. This fight is legendary, Emmanuel. I hope that you know that people bring it up all the time. And I'm always like, we had fun that day.

It was so... It looked so real. It was, you know, it started out a little dynasty and then it went into another level of... Tackle. It looked very real. Like a good scrappy street fight. I was like, okay. We've got the dynamic of like...

the failed romantic relationships in this episode, whether it's like Nikki and Jake or Brooke and Peyton and Lucas, you know, or Deb and Dan. But those friendship relationships, you know, this breakup between Peyton and Brooke holds a lot of weight and it's devastating. And I think that they're more broken up about that than necessarily the

Brooke and Peyton need each other. They're kind of alone in the world. I mean, I haven't seen Peyton's dad in a while. Again, who knows what's going on with Victoria and Brooke's dad. And she's always just alone. So to see these two girls who have clung to each other in the storms of life be alone.

you know, thrust away from one another by some dramatic circumstances is hard to watch. And I felt really bad for the two of them. And especially at the end when they were laying in bed, just talking. And I felt I could see the two little girls, like, how do we get back to each other? We need each other, you know? Well, it felt like cheating, like watching Brooke and Nikki have fun together in the bar and then roll into that party. I was like, what the, what is this? Like, yeah.

Friend cheating. Have you guys ever had a friend cheat on you before? Ooh, sure. Yeah. Yes. High school. It's that much more like that's just a big deal. Cause it's everything to you and you haven't sort of figured out like, okay,

I can take a step back and it's not the end of the world. I can go talk to someone else for a week. Like what is loyalty? Cause I, you know, you're still trying to figure things, those concepts and themes out when you're in high school, the concept of loyalty. If, if I don't like someone, um,

Is my friend therefore obligated to not like that person because I don't, because if you're my friend and that person was mean to me, then you stick up for me by not liking them too. And then we're both a force against that person. You know, I mean, that's definitely how a lot of high school, that's how I thought in high school in a lot of ways too. So I think that plays out. For sure. Obviously. And I don't think it, I don't think it helps that the person that Brooke is cheating with

is also someone connected to Jake, who Peyton has shown like a little bit of interest in. Yes, another. And then the Lucas revelation is just.

Well, it's like all the cards are put out on the table in every relationship in this episode. Like you said, Joy. Yeah. Everything comes to a head and it just, it's sort of like, bam, here it is. Now what? You know? Yep. Well, yeah. And it's when you meet people that are similar to you who have all the same interests as you, it's hard not to be competitive. So it tracks that they like all the same boys. They like the same girls. They hang out in the same places. Yeah.

And so that bars that serve high schoolers alcohol. Is this bar? Every time anybody from our show goes there, they get served even though they're underage. Did you party at the Blue Post when you were in town, Emmanuel? If I did, I don't remember it, which would be probably a yes. Yeah. It was a good time. It was a great time. The bartender...

The bartender who's had all the scenes with you is a guy named Dean, who we made friends with because he was a part of the improv comedy scene in Wilmington. And he hosted the karaoke nights at Level 5 for a long time. So it was like they got our bartender to be the bartender in the show. I love that he did give one look when you ordered the vodka for Brooke. He just like kind of threw a look over his shoulder like, hmm.

She's in high school. I know I'm not supposed to serve her, but it's in the script. So whatever. Did you party in high school? Towards the end of high school. Yeah. Park parties were a big thing in, I don't know if that was a thing. What's a park party? Park parties, like, cause you were underage, right? So you like,

Everyone would be like, okay, let's meet at such and such a playground at such and such a school. And they'd bring their beers and you'd sit until the cops came and then you'd all make a mad dash for it, hide your booze in the bushes, and then run off.

it was the most ridiculous thing but it's like if we couldn't find somebody's house then that's what we would go do yeah um so that was our party parties we're gonna this is the like urban legend stuff i would hear about as a child like you'd go and there'd be graffiti all over the playground you're like who's this right those park party kids that's right yes roughing up the place did you guys party in high school

Well, so I was a real clean teen. Like I had a group of friends and we didn't drink and we didn't smoke and we didn't hook up with dudes, but we would go to the parties and just kind of, you know, when you know, you're going to get made fun of. Yeah. Judge, when you know you're going to get made fun of. So you just like own it real hard and you're like, oh yeah, I'm going to, you know, make it a thing. We ended up making fun of it in the show. I didn't party much either. I was a pretty, I was a pretty tame person.

Kid, I mean, I definitely relate to Hayley feeling like nobody's going to show up if I throw this party because I have for sure thrown a couple of fetts. I don't know. That nobody, that like very slim picket shows up at and I'm just sitting there alone. No.

Oh, wait. Okay, so let's talk about the Hayley party throwing it all because I loved how John Hughes this storyline was for you. You looked the part. You had like the 16 candles top on, which I love so much. So cute. My hair got increasingly more curly as the episode went on. And I don't know if that was the weather or if it was me being like,

I don't care if it doesn't match. I want it curly, which is totally possible that I did that when I was 20. It was every single girl in every single scene, meaning that our hairdressers on the show had to pass us off to other people. That's what it is. Oh, that's what it was. Yeah, that's right. We were all just kind of crammed into the room together and it was like, just make it work, make it work.

I loved Haley throwing the party. I love the idea that this is her sort of popularity coming out and she felt so nervous and insecure about it. I love that everybody did show up. So she didn't end up feeling alone. But then of course the cops came and the whole thing got smashed. And you had to hide your drinks in the bushes.

Then we had to stash our drinks in the bushes. And that was it. The next thing you know, she's at the police station. Damn. Damn. Yeah. I don't, I'm trying to think if I was ever, you know, we had the police called on our parties when I lived in that haunted house in Wilmington. Manuel, did you ever come over to my house? No. Girl. Haunted house. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I think it was like right after you left, I moved into it. And we would have Halloween parties where the cops would show up. And thankfully, like, James didn't answer the door because the rest of us had just turned 21. Like, we were barely skating by. Right. Otherwise, the bushes in downtown Wilmington would have been... James gets his first job. Nathan gets his first job in this. What was your first job? Oh, okay.

I believe, oh, I worked at Muffins. Marvelous Muffins.

Yes! I love that. That's so good. Marie, what was your first job? Oh, my God. I worked so many jobs trying to save up money to move to New York City. So I started at Sports Authority, which was like a nightmare. There was a man who was— That's not a match for you. Babe, this dude was a felon who—the rumor was he'd murdered someone. And he worked in the back area where you would have to go do returns. Yeah.

And he was always like, you look like Nikki Kidman. And I was just like, oh, you don't know her well enough to call her Nikki. Nikki Kidman. And then I finally quit there and got a job at the supermarket, the same supermarket chain where my mother and my father met when she was a teenager and where my brothers all worked in the pharmacy. And it was just too much. And then I started working at a Buffalo Wing factory once.

And I said, I was like bartending. It wasn't totally legal, but it was the year Coyote Ugly came out. And I was like, I'm going for it. Did you audition for that? Girl, no, I was working in a real bar. The deal was I was allowed to pour the beer. I wasn't allowed to walk it to the table.

Which I think doesn't make any sense, right? If you're underage, you're in need. The other way around would make more sense. Yeah. Like, you could pick it up and walk it to the table and that was it. But you had no business pouring it or being in contact with the open bottle. Tips are tips, friends. Yeah. I was a clean teen. I was safe bet. What about you? You were making movies, Joy. Yeah. I mean, my first jobs were TV jobs, like carpentry.

commercials and pilots and stuff like that. But my first regular non-circus job was, um, I worked at a, um, I think I worked at the French connection. Oh, that's a good job. Um, this, the clothing store, I think I was in there just like dressing the mannequins. And I, all I wanted to do is do window dressing. And then when I moved to New York city, um,

When I was done with my soap opera that I was on, I got a regular normal job at a perfumery. And so I got to like make perfume for people all day, which is super fun.

You had told me when we first met that you were going to go work in a florist shop because you sent me flowers. You sent me flowers for something and you came to my house and there was baby's breath in there. And you were like, I told them not to put the baby's breath in there. It's techie. I hate baby's breath. It's so techie. Joy rearranged the flowers. I did. Don't get your girls flowers with baby's breath in them. Just take it out and then wrap that in a brown paper towel.

or something. Don't leave the plastic on. Don't do the plastic. Don't do the plastic. No, I did work at a florist in L.A. That was my first job. I got to L.A. and I was like, I need a job. So I went into a florist shop and they hired me. It's a skill set that's lasted you forever. Was it a walk down memory lane to see Nathan get this job, Emmanuel, kicking it in the mall? No.

Mall rats.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are your non-negotiables, Rob? Exercise is pretty much a non-negotiable. And getting into therapy once or twice a month has sort of become a non-negotiable in the last couple of years for me. You know, the same way that when I wanted to start getting in shape for the first time, I hired a personal trainer to show me the ropes of the gym and teach me how to not hurt myself while also getting stronger physically.

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Or a creamsicle. You know, when the ice cream truck rolled by, it was, let's get out there and grab some cold treats. Stacked. Yeah, I think what I've realized, sadly, as an adult, is that mostly when I wanted a cold treat, I probably just needed to drink water. I think I'm learning because, you know, summer is heating up, as it does every year. And the thing that gives me my hydration fix and my treat is...

is Liquid IV because they have all these nostalgic summer flavors that hit the market this summer. Like their sugar-free Rainbow Sherbert. It has taken me back to childhood in the best way. And I actually feel like I'm doing something good for myself when I drink it. And listen to some of these flavors. They have Raspberry Melon, White Peach. I am a big, big fan of the Green Grape, in fact. And I just kind of love that it's easy. Tear, pour, live more.

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And what about that carousel, the infamous carousel in the mall? How did you feel about that? I mean, it was the first episode I was, I didn't rewatch that episode yet, but, um, uh, do you remember when we were filming it, like how you felt about it when you saw the script come in and I don't know, what did you think?

you know, I was like, well, I'm the, you know, I'm the seductress and the villain in this. And, you know, I guess this is, this is what, uh, what I'm doing. I just remember extensive wardrobe talks about what it was I was going to wear because I had to straddle him on the carousel, you know, like all this stuff. I was just like, Oh,

Did you ever think when you were a kid and you were like, I want to be an actor, that it would boil down to like straddling wardrobe conversation? Oh, yeah. So when she straddles him and takes her top off, what bra should we wear? And also, like, you know, like how stretchy should the skirt be so that she can like really straddle him? Yeah. Not just like a polite side saddle. No. Western saddle. Yeah.

I just could not get over the fact that they were in a mall after hours and the carousel lights were still on and there were no security cameras. No one stopped them. It was like there were too many. By the way, the security guards at that mall were just like, cool, this is great. Did you guys see the monitor? This is fun. Let them go at it for a while. It's cool. A4 on the carousel, guys.

Yeah, it was. I mean, those scenes are always awkward and kind of, you know, whatever to shoot. And yeah, it was what it was. I think. I mean, I didn't put a whole lot of thought into it at the time. You know, I'm sure looking. It was normal back then. Yeah. You know what I mean? For sure. In these days and times, that would have been a completely different conversation and a like, OK, we're rewriting this.

Yeah. Well, and also Nikki's a little bit older than us. We've talked about that as well. Was it clear that Nikki was in college? Cause she says sometimes like tuition, but then she also talks about being a teenager. Did you know? She was supposed to be a few years older. It was never really addressed like specifically in this, you know, in the scenes or in this sort of, but yeah, like referenced, but not really talked about. So yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I like that she's still going to high school parties. Yeah, she's going to high school parties and it's seducing, like, high school boys. Oh, my God. You're the Matthew McConaughey. It's, like, dazed and confused. Yes. It's so good. Perfect. Well, Barbara had some lingerie action in this episode as well. Yeah. Yes. Which I think...

We remembered her not wanting to do that. We have to ask her about it. I'm not sure. You know what? She was pissed that she had to pull the shirt up over her head because it just is an awkward thing to do on camera. Yes, yeah. This would have been like a button thing. Yeah, button down would have been great. Yeah. But it worked. When I watched that last night, it did kind of catch me off guard. I mean, I was like, okay, I get what they were going for. But in my head, I was like, ugh. Yeah, but it felt like – it just felt a little –

It felt like a forced moment, not because of the acting, but the writing felt like a forced moment to me. She was actually really upset and he was totally gaslighting her in that moment and just pulling all of his manipulative shit. Suddenly now she's turned on by. I just wish there had been some sort of if he had...

I don't know if there, if the fight had, had felt a little bit more like he was fighting for her in, in some new way rather than him attacking her. And suddenly you're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're wrong. You're

Insane. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe Dan has strong pheromone action. Yeah, it could be. It could be. I mean, and she was drinking. So I guess that sort of, you know, listened to her up a little bit with this whole conversation. Moral of the story, friends, don't drink with your ex-husband. Yeah, God.

But, you know, it was what really got me about it. I mean, when they started making out, it was like, oh, wow. You know, the first time we get to see Dan and Deb really being romantic with each other. That's not a tender thing, but like a passionate romance, which we'd never seen with them before. But what really got me is that the end when he comes back and pulls that classic narcissist of I'm the one leaving you now. Yeah, yeah.

I'm going to bring you back in. Oh, he just keeps proving over and over. Yes. Well, it's like, yeah, I got, I got what I wanted. I wanted that one last sort of like, see how great we used to be and you, and now I wanted you to want me again. And for me to be able to show you what it's like for me to leave when you want me. Oh, it's just, he just keeps proving over and over how broken he is. This is why I've got a theory guys.

your favorite body of water is it resembles your personality right like there are people that are like the ocean and they come and they come back to it and they go out and they come back to it and they go out and they come back to it i have always been a river person the water's never the same ever it just keeps on running downhill man and so once i'm gone i'm gone forever it

It's never coming back. And I'm saying to all the Debs out there, don't kiss them again. Don't do it. Don't do it. Just get it out of your system. I'm a lake person. I don't know what that means. What does that mean, Hillary? Deep waters. Ooh, so deep. Deep waters. Sometimes you'll never touch the bottom. Whoa. Whoa.

Yeah. So the water, sometimes I'll just stay in places. I shouldn't stay. The water doesn't bring you a canoe. I'll come get you down your river and bring me a canoe over here. Emmanuel, what are you? What body of water are you? Oh,

I'd say I'm a mix between the, the, like a river and the ocean. Like I have been guilty of being the ocean before, but when I'm done that wall, like there's no, like when I'm truly done, the wall comes up, it's over. There's no going back. Like I can't,

um, make my, like I, when somebody's crossed that line, I'm just like, okay, now, now it's really like, there's no going back for me. Cause that trust is broken. Everything. It's just too broken. It's when you're like the intercoastal waterway and you turn into salt water at a certain point, you went from being freshwater. Yeah. Now I'm salt water. Yeah. Salty. Salty about this now. But then, yeah, no. Um, talking about salty, sad tears, uh,

Lucas telling Keith, I wanted you to be my dad. This breakup between Karen and Keith, we said while we were watching, we're like, it's like watching your parents get divorced, except they were never married. So you don't get the same grief process, you know? Like Nathan gets to have that grief process of my parents are a mess and

But Lucas had fantasized about Karen and Keith being his parents. And now it's falling apart. That dream is dying. It's hard to watch a dream like that die, especially as a kid when you, I mean, he had been holding on to that hope, I think, as much as Keith had. Mm-hmm.

and it was hard to it's hard to see that die it was a really sweet moment too between the two of them i i was like wow that was really touching and like and for him as a as a young man to go and actually have that conversation

like how hard that must be too. Well, and you're getting to see multiple sides of Lucas because you were dealing with sexy Lucas in the beginning. And now you're seeing, you know, like the conversation you guys had on the porch a couple episodes ago and like watching him today be like, Hey, listen, I kept your secret. I'm trying to be a good person. You know, Chad does a really, really good job at playing the,

Those little boy feelings of like, yeah, I'm like, I just want my parents to get along. I don't want my dad to leave. I don't you know, this girl is going to make trouble. And I just really want Haley to have a nice party. And, you know, when he goes into little boy mode, he doesn't really I love that when he does that. Yeah, me too. Not every dude's up for it.

Yeah, he does it very well. He really embraces that. And I think that's what we loved about Lucas in the beginning. You know, the sort of college bad boy Lucas we all were really thrown off track with. And it didn't it felt really insincere, probably for a reason, because this is Chad's sweet spot as an actor, I think, being in this zone with Lucas.

The sincere, you know, a little little there's a little boy that wants to come out that, you know, is vulnerable. And I think that he really did a nice job with that. Well, we didn't get to see you hold your baby in this episode, Emmanuel. But we saw Karen holding your baby, which is.

But a useful tool because it allowed us to visualize what Karen, Keith and Lucas were when he was a baby. And it allowed us to visualize what they potentially could be, except she's just not in love with him.

Did you feel at the end, like when she's fixing his tie and he finally, like he, or no, not, sorry. After that, when he comes back and says he got, he's got the job and it's finally real and he's leaving. Saw like a moment of sort of hesitation and kind of like going, oh crap, this is,

Maybe I screwed up. Wait a minute. I don't know how I feel about this. I saw that moment in her eyes and it was so beautifully played and so subtle, but it was like just her whole demeanor changed. Moira's really good at that. She's so good at subtext. She's so good at...

her eyes to express what's not on paper. Yes. And that question mark is what makes the performance like fun. You know, if we knew that Karen really didn't love him, we'd be like, okay, move on next. You know, who's she going to kiss now? But that question mark is really,

I don't know if you have gotten to interact with the little girl who played baby Jenny. Have you guys ever met after like, Oh, like later? Yeah. Grace Holcomb. Well, there was, there was several babies when I was there. There was, there was,

You had a couple different ones? Yeah, there was a few different ones because and then as she got older, then there were twins. So I don't know. I haven't. You would be so proud of her. She is in her freshman year of college. She is like a nationally ranked golfer, like on like PGA, you know, like she's going to be. I love it.

I love that you stayed in touch and tracked with her, Hill. That's awesome. Well, because her mother was a stand-in on Dawson's Creek and on our show. And so that's how we got baby Jenny, because her mom has been a part of our film community in Wilmington for years. But she is the most remarkable young woman. Like during the pandemic, she started a candle company to raise money for charity. And she's just so cool. She's so, you would be so proud, Nikki. Yeah.

of your little baby. Cause she's so my little girl. Yeah. I mean, I don't remember what happens, but does Nikki maintain custody of Jenny? Like what happens? I feel like I disappear. Like I just up and go one day. I think so too. I think you do too. I think it's like, I think it actually seems like you're getting your together and it's actually going to start to something's going to work. And then you just disappear again. Yeah. Cause women are the devil.

Of course. We can tell who writes what episodes, guys. There's so many. I'll tell you what, though. Nikki and Brooke in that bar was so delicious. I really did enjoy watching all that wickedness. Just, you know, it was so fun. It was so fun watching you guys in this episode. The one-liners between you two. I could watch that whole show. It's like the dark Laverne and Shirley. Yes.

Well, the comment that she makes, like the brush off she gives to the guy before... Oh, rough. I was like...

Ooh, that is special. It was delicious. That was harsh. Yeah, well, we can talk about Sophia because she's not here. They gave Sophia so much heavy lifting because she would have to go from being so emotional in certain scenes to also like scathing and evil and brutal, you know, with the one-liners. And the scripting for Brooke is so fun in this episode because it really does...

There's a wide range of stuff that she has to cover. And that defense mechanism that young women put up is a strong play for Brooke. It's like, well, if you're going to hurt my feelings, I'm going to make sure I cut your head off. It's the praying mantis move. And I'm drawn to it.

Right? Like Nikki is being self-destructive and anyone who can see through the veneer of like, oh, I'm tough. I'm tough. I'm bad. I'm lippy. Um, can see that this is a girl that is hurting deeply. Yeah. Did you have any conversations with anybody about what that hurt was or, or you just had to make it up on your own? I just made it up on my own. I mean, I think, um,

Yeah, I don't think it was like a specific conversation with anyone, like any of the writers or people involved. I think it was just something that I, you know, I recognized that there was a lot of scars and history there. And to bringing that to the table was important in sort of the, you know, the evolution of the character and just her, you know, presence on screen. What was people's reaction to you?

Like, when these things aired. Yeah, do you remember? People would, like, there would be, people would be like, oh, my God, you're Nikki. I love to hate you. And, like, you know, like, they would come up to me and be like, oh, my God, I hate your character so much, but it's so much fun to watch. And I was like, thank you. That's great. That's so great. Wait, so, okay, what is...

What was crazier working on a teen drama or working on two and a half men? Cause you, you have been able to handle a lot of different personalities. I mean, well, the behind the scenes stuff counts too. Yeah. I mean, I don't like, see, I generally have stayed like with the two and a half men stuff. I stayed out of that whole, you know, like I was there. That wasn't something I was directly involved with. Like it was, yes, I was involved with it, but not that way, you know? So it didn't,

it didn't change my relationships with anyone on the show or with Charlie or with, you know, and then, um,

So, yeah, I don't know. I tend to try to stay out of the thick of the drama. And you've always been very professional. I mean, as I definitely remember when you came down to Wilmington that you were so you were just so professional. And that's one of the reasons why we were so intimidated by you, too, because you just you knew exactly what you were there to do and you showed up and you were kind to everyone and everything.

you know, knew nobody had to tell you how to find your mark or, I mean, you were just a consummate professional and you weren't involved in any of the behind the scenes drama or anything. And, you know, it's really, it's nice to, it was nice to be around that. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I thought, I think also too, like I wasn't there for, for one tree hill. I wasn't there, you know, for every episode, I'm sure when it's different when you're there day in and day out for months and months and years at a time, inevitably there's, there's stuff that comes up and, you know,

situations and issues come up that you deal with appropriately at the time. But yeah. And also being young on a show like that is a completely, it's like high school, but with money. Yeah. Oh, totally terrible combination. It's not a good combo. Can we, well, we can always come back to that too. Sorry. I just wanted to, cause we haven't talked about Peyton yet in this episode. And I, I just wanted to say that like, it was really nice to see Peyton.

happy and like having a great time like she was she and you and lucas had such a good rapport and you know there was like great music going on and you just seemed so light and happy until the very end when you know nikki was like you know you know the happy stuff is harder for me to play i always am really judgmental of my own performances with happy stuff because i know i'm really yeah yeah yeah

But the one thing that I like about it is that it makes Peyton more juvenile, you know? Yeah. It's really hard to sexualize or just kind of misinterpret, like a goofy kid, you know? And when Peyton's, like, being happy and just like, this man's neat, mister, you know?

I appreciate those moments of childishness, if that makes sense. Yeah, for sure. I like that she's committing to this, like, platonic thing. And I...

I believe her. Like, I believe that she's legitimately trying to be platonic with Lucas because if she can just make that work, if she can just like prove like, hey, we're just friends, regardless of how I've felt in the past, regardless of how I may secretly still feel, maybe Brooke will take me back. You know, it's yeah, it's like she's doing the work. I loved it.

guys ever done those scenes, though, where you have to pretend like you're having the best time ever or that you love something so much? Like, metal? I'm listening to 80s metal, guys. It's the coolest! And you just...

I don't know. I always feel so phony doing it. It's way easier for me to cry. Actually, like watching the episode, I was like, wow, she's just so like cool and fun and free. Like it seems so free and not like in very comfortable and in your, just in your body and just kind of like it. I was watching those scenes. I was like, wow, it's really,

they're really nice to watch. So it doesn't, it doesn't come across as disingenuine or, or that you're not actually happy about it and, and that you don't actually love metal. I love metal. Can you imagine me going to pick my son up from school? Like just like metal down, slipknot get in the car, Gus.

It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th.

take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back to school season into back to beach season go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer ends september 5th all right this is what you do when the love of your life the apple of your eye the bag you would beg for can wait no longer you ready you

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

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Well, do we have any fan questions? Where are we at with that? Oh, I like fan questions. Ooh, these are interesting. Well, we're talking about music. Go for it, Hill. Okay, so Ashton asks...

So many of the bands, artists, and songs I loved in high school were featured on the show. Jimmy Eat World, Fall Out Boy, Jack's Mannequin, the list goes on. So my question to you guys is, what was the soundtrack to your high school experience? And who were the heavy hitters on your mixtapes and mixed CDs? That's a great question. Oh, yes. Yes.

Dave Matthews. I mean, the Under the Table and Dreaming Dave Matthews album was everything. I remember we took a senior trip to Greece. That was our class trip. What? Senior trip. I know. Crazy. I went to Myrtle Beach, Joy. You went to Greece.

I went to Myrtle Beach. That's so awesome. And I had that soundtrack on my Walkman, and I just remember walking the streets of Greece. I was totally brokenhearted about a boy, of course. He was on the trip but not paying any attention to me. It was like the most heartbreaking romantic thing ever to be wandering through these streets.

Grecian streets listening to Dave Matthews band, but that, and then that jewel album and Fiona Apple, when Fiona Apple came out with, was it criminal? I can't remember the name of the slow, like honey off that out is like leave that whole record. Yeah. And the jewel pieces of you album, those, those three were Cheryl Crow too. But yeah, that was the major soundtrack of my life. What about you guys? Very well. Hey,

I mean, Alanis Morissette, when she first came. Oh, yes. That was... I remember listening to a lot of Alanis Morissette. And then Madonna. Like, I was a big 80s music person. Yes. Anything 80s. But Madonna, I distinctly remember. And I was, like, really young. I was maybe, like, in second grade or something. And I...

I had my little tape recorder thing with the Madonna or no, it wasn't second grade. It was like maybe fifth grade. Cause I'd gone to the mall and like saved up enough money to like buy, you know, the Madonna, like a virgin. Was it a cassette? Like a virgin in my bed, like dancing around. My dad walks in. He's like, and he's like, what are you listening to? I'm like, Madonna, like a virgin. He's like,

Nope. You shouldn't be dancing to things you don't know about. And then he just like shut the door and walked out. I was so confused. And now I look back and I'm like, oh, yeah. That was a rough one. I was a little bit lost the first couple years of high school. And then I really got lost.

obsessed with androgyny and discovered Boy George, David Bowie, Annie Lennox, like all in one fell swoop and just felt like I'd found my safe space. And I had pictures of Boy George from Culture Club all over my bedroom, all over my locker. I had a whole like block of class that was just student government. And I used that time not to run our school effectively, but to use the printer to

to print out pictures of boy George. And so my...

So it totally tracks that, like, the second I got to Manhattan at 18 years old, I was like, where are the drag clubs? Tell me where to go. Yes. Oh, it's so good. Yeah, that was my scene, just driving in my Cutlass, listening to Culture Club. It was the jam. But let's talk about then, like, what would our characters be doing in 2021? You know, we talked a number of times about how unsettling it was that people just kept walking into Peyton's house. Peyton's house.

This episode was gross. Just everybody just at all hours walking into her house. I know. It's like turning around and finding Brooke standing there over her bed with the light shining through the slats in the windows shades. I was like, I get that she's about to lay down. It's going to be a sweet moment. But it's a bad way to kick it off. So I think that Peyton in her adulthood is going to be very, very.

There's going to be a lot of triggers for her, you know, like, yeah, no one's coming into her daughter's room, you know, door open feet on the floor. We have monitors ring doorbells everywhere. Everywhere. It's just ring cameras everywhere.

I think Haley has been such a goody two-shoes her whole life that she probably is like living out some wild years right now. That's my instinct. Throwing parties all the time. This was just the first taste. All kinds of parties. What's Nikki up to? Did she ever get herself together? I feel like she's like 20, gosh, 20 years later. I mean, I feel like she's living in a small town, working at a diner, trying to make ends meet.

And just, you know, like she's just living a very sort of quiet life and maybe still facing her demons and hasn't quite worked. Interesting. She's not still at the pool hall. Now she's like the salty broad in the corner. Hey, kids. Porn drinks, summer cigarettes. You need a fake ID, kid. I know where to get one. Oh, my God.

Okay. So, tell us what you're doing now, because that's what I want to know. What are you working on now? I'm well, right now I was working on Supergirl earlier this year and then that's great. Thank you. And then I did like an independent movie and then I spent the summer showing my horse and playing with ponies. So that's basically, you know, now it's like pouring rain here. And I'm,

I'm kind of like the horse loves it here. So I'm like, okay, we're going to stay here for a while and hang out because there's more space and just, you know, where, where is your horse normally? Um, well I was in LA. Um, so you shipped, shipped him up or her up to Vancouver. Um, last year at the end of last year, I shipped her up, uh,

You should have just ridden her. I would have watched a documentary of Emmanuel just riding this beautiful stallion across the border. Or is it a mare? What's the right word? It's a mare. Yeah. I'm learning, guys. It's a lady. What's her name? Bunny. My horse's name is Buddy. Buddy? Yeah. So what kind of horse do you have? He's a quarter horse. He's just a dark, dark, dark brown, almost black horse.

Quarter horse. And he's 19 years old. So he's, you know, he's had a good long life. But he's just kind of happy to be grazing right now. He's not. He's kind of an asshole. He hates when I ride him because he's just like, I'm just not into it. I put in my time, woman. We like ordinary things. His name was Bunny when I got him. And I just didn't like it for a male horse. I wasn't into it. And it didn't seem to fit his personality at all, to be honest. Because he's an asshole.

Yeah. So I called him Buddy because I didn't want him to, like, at 19 years old, get a new name. But I feel like Buddy was a little closer to it. This is the Christmas movie I want this year, where Emmanuel's horse teaches Joy's horse the true meaning of Christmas and gets him to stop being so grumpy. Yeah.

Nikki could disappear and be a cowgirl. That's an alternate lifestyle. Like if she went out west to Santa Fe. Yeah, she became a barrel. Yes, there we go. I like that better. I like a brighter future for her.

And she found herself because she started working with horses like therapeutically and she, yeah. And she found healing in that and then decided that that was her true passion. And, and it was healthy for her to be in that world. She could totally show up on Yellowstone. Like her and Beth would be best friends. Great. I love it. Should we spin the wheel guys? Yeah, let's do it.

All right. You know how this works, Manuel? We have our most likely to every week. And this week it is most likely to be listed on the Fortune 500. So we pick a cast member, a real life person and a character most likely to make it on the Fortune 500. James Lafferty.

Is he money? Excellent with money. He makes very good choices with money. And why does mouth work for every answer? Yeah. I mean, mouth is good at pretty much everything. Who made money? I mean, Brooke made money with Clothes Over Bros, right? That's true. Yeah. Yeah. That was a big company. I was going to say Brooke. Yeah. Yeah. That does track. And Sophia, by the way. Sophia has...

300 jobs at any given point, hence her not being here today. She is the most entrepreneurial person I've ever met in my life. And I'm just like...

I'll have what she's having. Well, isn't she in Canada too? Like I heard on the, because I was, you know, stalking you guys on the episodes, trying to figure out what happens on, on drama queens. But I heard she was in Canada. I'm like, she is? She's in Toronto. Yeah. She's there. A couple of our friends are up there right now and yeah, all the fun stuff's happening in Canada. When are y'all coming to New York?

I'm just sitting here waiting. That's why originally I came up here was just because this was the only place that was kind of open, you know, and I was like, you know what, I need to get out of Dodge for a little while. And then I just was like, I really like it up here and everything's virtual. So like, what doesn't really matter. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Oh man, I'm so glad that you were able to join us today. It's just so great to see you and talk with you again. And it always makes me happy to have our family back on this show. So thank you so much. Well, thank you for having me. And I was so excited. I was like, yes, I'll come do this. This sounds like so much fun. And then when I listened to the episodes, I was like, this is really going to be fun.

I loved fighting with you. I loved, remember they made us like crash through that coffee table. And that was the first time I'd ever had to do like a really big stunt before. And it was scary. Didn't you like get cut by the fake balsa wood? One of us got cut, but we wanted to be tough girls. I think so.

So I don't, I remember being really sore after like the next couple of days, like I'd worked out like 12 hours straight. Cause we shot that for like all day long and you know, and then the- - 300 takes. - Yeah, 300 takes, all angles everywhere. I mean, it was fun though. Like it was a fun, like the energy was so high that day. It was really good. - No, we had a great time. - Then you just kind of go. - Well, you have to come to a convention because then we can do pictures.

Yeah, I feel like fans need that photo. We'll just put a coffee table in front of us and the fans... It'll be pre-broken, so all you have to do is just lay down on it. You got a problem with me? Yeah. I love it so much. Emmanuel, you're the best. Everybody, give it up.

Thank you guys so much. Everybody tune in next episode. Number 21, the leaving song. I still, I still don't know what's going to happen. I love this rewatch because I'm surprised every week. Danger, danger. Have a great week, everybody. Bye.

listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time. DramaQueens DramaQueens

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪