Lucas’ Tattoo • EP109
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first of all you don't know me we're all a school drama girl drama about them high school queens we'll take you for a ride in our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens smart old-fashioned but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queens drama queens drama queens drama drama queens drama queens friends we're back did you miss us

I miss you. Hi. I miss you guys. Listen, this really is the best part of my week because I get to like blow my family off and say, oh, sorry, we have two hours. This is our lady time. Tonight, we got to hang watching episode nine with Arms Outstretched, which the air date was November 18th, 2003.

This is after fighting with his father and Haley. Nathan succumbs to the pressure and he takes amphetamines to help him play basketball. So in previous episodes leading up, we've had casual gunplay. We've had like suicidal tendencies. What else have we had? We touched on pills a little with Brooke in the last one. Yeah. Ew, yuck.

Is this what kids were doing in 2003? I just can't even remember. I don't know. Also, as you...

pointed out, well, while we watched the episode, why was he taking them for like four days leading up to the game? Why not just the game? It was excessive. Yeah, so lots to discuss. First and foremost, Brooke's juicy suit at the top of the episode. With stripes, and I had stripes on my backpack. Brooke's just all sorts of stripey. It's a roadmap. Yeah. I was...

I was a little confused in this episode with Luke. He, because he seemed like two different people. Like, like we, we were getting a lot of, a lot of new, a new side of like bad Lucas, I guess. What did you guys think? Yeah. Because, you know, we were talking about what a sort of revelation it was to be watching now and realize that he's like fully playing these two girls, these best friends.

And scripted to do that. Like someone thought that was a good idea. Someone was like, oh, this is perfectly okay for a young boy to like say this to this girl and this to this girl. And while one's passed out, flirt with the other. Like it's so out of control. And then in this episode. She's sleeping. She's asleep. So I'm going to hit on her friend. Like what? And then in this episode.

It's like... It's so weird because it's like they were writing him to be like the broody book guy. But then also they were like, and be like a young guy starring on a TV show. Like, it's so... That's very sexy, the way he said that against you, against the wall when you were showing him your tattoo. Yeah, I was like... Like, I was uncomfortable and I did the scene and I was like, God, this is very overt. It just felt out of character to me. I just see... Like, there's a lot...

Like, okay, I'll give Luke a space to experiment with, you know, feeling out different crowds and like, who do I want to be in different environments? But the way he was interacting with Brooke, I don't know. For me, it just felt out of character. I just didn't buy it. The only thing that makes sense to me about that is he's been a good guy. He came like he was real slow burn with Peyton. Like, I'm going to respect your space. I'm going to try to talk to you about feelings and things and,

And he got burned and it didn't work and she blew him off. And so there's kind of a like, okay, well, screw it mentality. You know, let me try being this other guy. Nathan certainly seems to get everything he wants by acting this way. And so I wanted to see a change. I wish I would have seen a moment. Like they could have written in some kind of moment where he was like, he's standing there looking in the mirror and dying.

thinking about this memory, whatever. And it's like, you know what? He makes a decision. I'm going to go for it. And I just needed something. I needed a switch. I got to see it. That was missing in the writing, him making a choice. And I was thinking that something that I'm realizing as we're talking about it is perhaps some of the

what felt like really different or outlandish behavior, out of character behavior, is also motivated by the fact that it's really the first time we see two of the high school kids in a grown-up environment. Yeah. True. It's a lot of like make-believe. Like, let's be grown-ups. Yeah, they got into the bar so easy, got served liquor. It was passed off so casually, Brooks, like, oh, I made us fake IDs with your yearbook photo, as if that's an easy thing to do.

But so suddenly you have these high school kids in a grown-up space. And as we were watching it, I was like, oh my God, you're right, Hillary. This is an episode where we see

Luke is behaving more like Nathan. But what struck me that I kind of forgot about, you know, we've all been, I don't know what, 21 for a couple of weeks. Like whole three weeks. How old was Chad at this point? Like 24 or something? No, he's only a year older than we are. No, he's not. He's three years older than us, isn't he?

No, he's a year older than us, but he'd been working for so long. He'd been like in Cinderella Story, Freaky Friday. He'd been on Gilmore Girls, Dawson's Creek. So he'd done all of this work before where he was cast as the sexy guy. And that was like what the fan base wanted to see him doing. He seems like a grown up in this episode. Like a college boy in this episode. It came easy to him. It did. It came very easy. Wow. Yeah.

But by the way, like the bar that you guys shot in, we've mentioned on this podcast before. Let's get in Blue Post memories. We love the Blue Post. Yeah. The Blue Post has skee-ball in the back. Darts was a big deal there. And the pool tables. I mean, we're...

Those were jamming. If you could flirt with a boy on those pool tables. I played a lot of darts on a lot of skee-ball. Did you? Skee-ball? They had skee-ball? But I wish I had gotten good at pool. Like, oh, by the way, Brooke Davis is a casual pool shark, which we all forgot. Why didn't we keep that storyline going? Yeah, why didn't we have one at trick? We needed a pool table at trick. I'm annoyed about that. That close over bros was like low on cash. You could have gone and hustled for it. I could have been like, you Victoria. Yeah.

I'm going to go make money pool sharking. I would have loved if that had continued. Also, I would have loved to have had an excuse to get good at pool because I'm not. And I wish I was. I don't trust girls who are. I'm like, what do you look to? But it's one of those things when we watch the scene, like how cool does it look? It looks cool. Yeah, it really does. Did you guys get tattoos in high school? No. Joy, no.

No, I was a clean team. No. But here's what I'll say. I had the boyfriend in high school who had tattoos. My boyfriend was bad. Really? In fact, oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a picture of him. There's like a full spread of him in the yearbook because he had an eyebrow piercing and he had tattoos. They let him come to school with a piercing in his eyebrow? Oh, yeah. He was bad. Wow.

So where are you, boy? He's out there somewhere, probably still being bad. But yeah, he had an eyebrow piercing and like he had a Wu-Tang Clan tattoo on his wrist. And then there was like another one. God, I feel like it was on his leg. I can't remember. But it was like a scandalous thing. Oh, of course. In high school. Yeah. I mean, how old were you guys when you got your first tattoos?

I got mine in Wilmington from a tattoo artist named Sarah Peacock, who is...

Sarah Peacock's really like a great tattoo artist. If you can score an appointment with her in Wilmington, you should do that. Yeah. And she did the S on my wrist for Scott. And then she, she did a tattoo on my ribs, like right before I left town. And it felt like it was right when I was closing certain personal chapters. And I was just like, let's go memorialize this forever.

You had one on your foot, though, when we started shooting. Was that already there? Oh, I got mine the day I graduated high school. Did you really? Yeah. Yeah, I drove into the East Village and got a tattoo on Christopher Street. Wow, Joy. You're just...

I need to know more about like 17-year-old Joy in her apartment driving to the East Village with your Mariah Carey hoop earrings. Oh, my God. I feel like the more I watch Friends, because I'm binging it right now at night. It's like my comfort show. The more I realize I'm Phoebe. Yes. Yes.

I have memories. I feel like I've lived so many different lives, you know, and Phoebe's like, oh yeah, when I lived in Prague and everybody's looking at her like, what? I'm like, wait, I think that's me. I've just always got such random parts of my life that I forgot about. I hope you take this as a compliment, but 100%, yes, you're Phoebe. I mean, our season one nickname for you was Joypeter. That's right. Do you remember that? That's right. It was just because like joy was...

Joy was always so comfortable and like, I'm on a different planet. And what are you guys talking about?

about like agents and casting directors? No, no. We're talking about like Victorian homes and, you know, like we're talking about something totally obscure today. And, you know, have you guys ever created gold jewelry? I remember people used to think I was mad or grouchy a lot because I, well, I have the, I've got my 11s, you know, right between my two eyes, the lines in my forehead. And those are just genetic. My, every woman in my family has those from a young age. And I, but I was always thinking

I'm thinking really intently and quiet. And when I go into my own world, I'm gone. Like you can be talking to me and I don't see you or hear you. And it's not personal. I'm just, my brain can't, I can't multitask the same. I'm just gone. I'm somewhere else. It's a skill set. You don't want to hear it. But people would think I was so grouchy. Yeah.

I didn't ever clock it as grouchy. I just clocked it as she's got better shit going on than what we're talking about. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I love you as Phoebe. And I love you on your planet. And I love your, were you even 18 yet when you got your tattoo on your foot?

Um, no, I had, oh no, I wasn't 18. No, I was still, I was still 17. I think I just, uh, oh wait, actually, no, I was, I was, I just turned 18. You had just, because your birthday's in April. April. I had just turned 18. That's right. I think that's, well, that's why they tattooed me because I could show my ID. I didn't get my first tattoo until I was 23. And here, this is, I've met, well, I'm going to embarrass myself.

You guys, I love Goldie Hawn so much. Oh, yes. And I was closing a personal chapter in my life at the time. Hilary, we have this in common. Just closing those books. Just close them and set them on fire. And I read Goldie's book, A Lotus Grows in the Mud. And it like...

Is that what it's from? It like changed my life. Actually, when our sweet friend Danielle was going through a time, I gave her my copy with all my notes in it. I was like, I never do this. This is the inside of my heart. Read this book. So I think it's been like just sort of passed around groups of women going through transitions. But I got my first tattoo here in L.A. at the Shamrock on Sunset.

And then I got my next couple. I got my next couple in Wilmington. Yeah, man. And I don't know. I've just kind of racked them up ever since. We just have to hide them. I just put them away. Yeah. That's why six of my seven are white.

All my ink is white except for one tattoo. Yeah. Which is really fun. It's like such a party trick when you show people because they're like, what do you mean you have seven tattoos? And you start showing them where they are and people are like, oh my God, I see you all the time. Sophia pulls out a black light and she's like, oomph, oomph, oomph. I'm like, let's go to Sweden. And like once people see them, they can't unsee them. The fun tattoo. Did that symbol really mean fun? Do we know? I don't know. That would be fun to find out. What did your symbol mean? I don't know.

I don't remember what Brooke's tattoo meant. That's another thing. So for one episode, Brooke was a pool shark. And for one episode, Brooke had a tattoo.

They just went away. And I realized that the entire thing happened as a vehicle for them to put that tattoo on Chad's arm for Lucas because Chad has a real tattoo on his shoulder and they were having such a hard time covering it up. Yeah. Was that his real tattoo? No. No, he's got a, it's like, but it's raised. So they were having so much trouble covering it with flesh tone that they needed an excuse to put a bandage over his arm for basketball. Yeah. Yeah.

They couldn't get it to stay on. And when he'd sweat, it would kind of run. And they were just really struggling. And they realized that if they covered it and then put a tattoo over it, it did just enough for the eye on camera to take away the texture of his covered up tattoo. Did they write this whole episode for him just because of Ash? They wrote this whole thing to get Lucas a tattoo. So they could put a bandage on his eye. He could have just put him in a short sleeve shirt.

Right. I literally he could have worn a shirt under his jersey, but they wanted to show off all the boys muscles. So they weren't going to do. OK, our fabulous producers are giving us a note. They're saying he supposedly got the word fun tattooed on his arm in characters that, you know, Chinese Chinese characters. In reality, the Mandarin characters are the equivalent of the word have. No, this is great. This is what I was going to say. I remember joy much like Haley's penis hat.

I remember Mark and the writers roasting Chad because they were like, yeah, you know, we're going to say Luke has got a tattoo that says fun and it says something else. Joy, how'd you feel watching Craig Sheffer lay on the law down? Oh, yeah. Oh, hot and bothered, baby. So exciting.

Oh, he was so stern. He was so stern. That was great. And Lucas, you know, Lucas needed it. And I loved that he, you know, came around and was willing to help him out with his janky tattoo that got all like infected and stuff. The rotten tattoo. It rotted. Drugs and tattoos don't work that way. No. Can we talk about Craig Sheffer's

threats when he goes, what'd you do? Join the Navy? And then he's talking about Lucas's tattoo and he goes, you could get an infection or hepatitis or like HIV. He throws out. He does. Yeah. And then make some like offbeat reference to getting a tattoo in the Philippines, which is so off tone. Like what is this? And then

And then the threats of bread and water. I mean, yeah, he definitely was like, that was real old school. Somebody from the 30s wrote that scene. Somebody that was like, I served in World War II and we got bread and water, see? And you'd get a tattoo if you got really wasted and it would get infected. It's like Reaper Madness. What is this? Oh my God.

Oh, my God. It's going to fall off, kid. There was also some interesting stuff on the other side of Keith, which is Dan, and how Dan, you know, coming off of the last episode where he was –

It seemed he was, well, he was definitely more introspective. He was definitely processing a little bit more about his life, where he is now, the choices that he's made. It seemed like Dan was really taking some time to think about those things. And that definitely bled over into this episode. So we have him being more introspective now. He's being tender with Nathan in the hospital. He seems like he's really, you know, looking out for Nathan and trying to help and trying to make some changes. Yeah.

And we learn more about why he is the way that he is. And then he blows it all up by not calling Deb, by trying to bail Nathan out and threatening the doctor. And also by telling Nathan it's okay, the scouts won't remember it. Right. Like he doesn't care at all about his mental or physical well-being. No. He's just like college. And the fact that he didn't...

It was more important to him to be the parent that was there for Nathan that he specifically did not let Deb know so that he could be the hero. So he could use it against her. That was rough. He's competitive in every aspect of his life. Yeah. You know, even in like the parenting part. I mean. I'm the favorite. He would pick me just so you know. Yeah.

Yeah, the narcissism was out of control. That's what I was going to say. Like you said it, you know, just it was an exclamation watching his behavior. I mean, you literally went, the narcissism. It's so toxic. And even when he realizes he's been too hard on Nathan and he's saying, you're never going to break my record and all this nonsense that shouldn't matter to a parent. When he comes back.

before the game and says, Nathan, I said that to you because nothing would make me happier than you breaking my record. And there's one beat. And then he says, but I don't think you will. It's like, oh my God, even your apologies are filled with attacks. Can't help himself. Can't help himself. He's a monster. He's a monster. This is like a telltale marker of a narcissist too, is that there's a lot of people who

they'll say, "Oh, this person can't be a narcissist because they have these deep feelings. Narcissists supposedly can't feel anything. They have no empathy." So you think like, "Oh, I see this person crying. I see them feeling bad." No, no, no, no, no. He feels bad because there are consequences for his actions and he's feeling the pain of the consequence. So he is feeling bad for himself. It has nothing to do with anyone else. And you really see that in "Flying Colors" in this episode, I think with Dan.

I wonder if they should use our show in like psychology courses. They really should. Name that diagnosis. I think that's part of why it feels so good.

To finally see Deb Scott raise her voice. Yes. And to tell him to get out and to call him a smug son of a bitch. Oh, that's so nice. That's right. Well, we have a guest who was one of our ladies who we could scream and cuss with back in base camp. So we're going to take a little bit of a break. And then one of our favorite humans is joining us. Don't go anywhere. Friends, we all...

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Listen, I wouldn't sell yourself short, but it is helpful to know that if you could do it starting from scratch, then maybe there's hope for me when I finally decide to build my own website. I can't wait.

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Oh my God.

JoJo, can you see us? No, I can't. JoJo. We're so excited to see you. Everybody at home, this is JoJo Stevens. She took care of us for the majority of my run on One Tree Hill, certainly. JoJo was our key hair and our key troublemaker back in base camp on One Tree Hill. You know where all the bodies are buried. Oh, yeah.

JoJo knows where all the bodies are buried. And also you just were like our solace of all things. I screamed so loud when you came on camera, the dog thinks something's wrong with me. Yeah. I just got off work. I'm sitting in my car. Tell us what you're working on. I know, but tell everybody at home what you're working on. I'm working on the...

The Righteous Gemstones with Danny McBride and John Goodman and Wyatt, Walton Goggins. I almost said Wyatt.

And Edie Patterson, Peterson, you know, I'm terrible at last name. You only know their character names because you've got to look at a call sheet and see who's sitting in your chair in the morning. No, I know the character names better than I know their names. JoJo, you don't age. You look exactly the same. Oh, my gosh. Oh, well. If I hadn't had a little cocktail, I could see all better and I wouldn't have to put my glasses on. I'd say, what the hell?

Hold on. Let's get into cocktail hour with Jojo. Cocktail hour feels real important. Yeah. So last week I told the story about that time that I had to make out with Chad and you gave me a shot back in base camp to give me strength. The Jojo cocktail hour is a legend. Is it continuing on this production? No, everybody's scaredy cats.

Christy's working with me. Brian doesn't drink. Brian Law says hello. Tell us your drink of choice, your trailer drink of choice, JoJo. My trailer drink of choice. Well, it depends who will drink with me. Hypothetically, of course. Hypothetically, vodka. Yeah. Hello, vodka. Chelsea. No, no, no.

JoJo's a vodka purist. God bless. Jo, when you got involved in the show, how did that come about? Who called you? Because you came in right away. I was with Mike Tolan. Okay. He was... Our producer. He was the guy. I mean, to me, he was the one that started the show. And the, you know, leather pants and stuff like that came later. So I was...

if you remember i was going to i was going to exit the show because of the way uh certain people were treating me and i called mike tolan to tell him sorry dude but this is not working out and he said no let me make a phone call the next thing i know i'm in the office of certain producers and i kind of let them know that um

teamwork's my deal and it changed after that so wow good if anyone could lay down the law

You know what? Teamwork was your deal. And it is. And I, cause I remember that being such a focal point for, for us when we were in the trailer, you know, especially when there were things that, you know, we were all, especially with the girls, there were lots of misunderstanding, lots of things that, you know, we were hearing from other people or, you know, as we've said, there was so much division. And I remember that you were constantly working to get us all on the same team, on the same page. And,

And it was a lot of extra effort that you didn't have to do. You know, you were just there to do our sit there to do our hair. And instead, you poured your heart and soul into all of us when we were so young and needed guidance. And I mean, I just I'm so I love you. I miss you. And I'm grateful for your guidance there. Oh, thanks. Guys, you were to ask for one of your episodes.

And you guys were talking about your characters and your, I'll probably start crying, but you were talking about your characters and their relationships.

And you guys were all living your lives and your relationships and everything was so fast. And I wanted you to slow down. But then again, I know I remembered I was, you know, a lot younger then. And I remembered the times when I was building my relationships and how much fun it was and the feeling and getting the butterflies and stuff. But then again, at the same time, you were being pushed, you know, kind of, I don't know, just worked on and yeah. Yeah.

manipulated and stuff. You know, there was good stuff that came out of it stuff, but I was always like, Oh my God, I wish they could just say, I hope you can look back and go, wow. You encouraged me to get in trouble. I remember like being real square, being a real prude. And Joe's like, but he's,

I would go out and have some fun and nothing bad would happen. Every love letter I ever got, I'd show to Joe sitting in her chair. It was good to have a touchstone where I could be like, am I being bad? And Joe's answer was always, no. No.

You counseled all of us through not only the moments when we were falling in love, but the moments where things were falling apart. I mean, we were joking a couple episodes ago. We were just dying laughing. I was like, where do you think all the engagement rings went between us? Because everybody's got a couple. Oh, God. I just... You're right. We...

We wanted to like prove that, you know, we were all grown up and we had everything figured out. And I will give you so much credit because you held us and you mothered us and you gave us great advice, but you never told us what to do. And I can't imagine how many times you had to bite your tongue because we did some stupid. I never bit my tongue with joy, would I?

You want to talk to Joy? I don't know. I'm sure. I'm sure you had to. I love when Joy went through her experimental hair phase. Remember when like you would put the little tiny braids in your hair and then you have unicorn hair for like a second. How Joe. Okay. So hair is obviously something that we talk about a lot on the show because that was how we all tried to express ourselves or, you know, just, you know,

feel like we had a little bit of control over what we were doing. How exhausted were you doing 300 hairdos on 300 different girls? Let me tell you, when I interviewed for a job after One Tree Hill, it looked like I had, you know, a lot of resumes are like long and, you know, 50 things on them. Well, I had to point out that on my time on One Tree Hill, I did over 500 hairstyles.

So then that kind of opened their eyes. So everybody listening out there, if your hairstyle is just starting right down the number of hairstyles, God. Yes. Oh, gosh. I mean, you were fighting humidity with two girls with curly hair. You know, one of them had to be straight and one had to be curly, but it all had to be done with an iron, which doesn't stay in humidity. Water just lets it all out. So that's a big challenge that you were constantly battling. And also, guys, right now,

These days, I mean, and after we left, you know, it's just me, Christy, and a third. After I left, I think there was like two or three more people hired and, you know, and another trailer and a whole team for a second unit. And nowadays, doing four people is unheard of because, you know, it's like many movies, you know, per episode, you know, episodic. But, oh, yeah, we shot in the rain. If it didn't rain, it didn't rain.

You girls were out in the weather. And what that means for the folks at home when JoJo says if it didn't read. So a funny thing can happen sometimes on camera. It can be raining.

But if the drops are small, they won't quote read on camera. You won't be able to see them. So they would put us out in the actual rain and, you know, come and blot us down with a tissue every couple of days. So there weren't drops on our faces, but we'd be standing in the rain. And then they'd look at Jojo and be like, can you just clean up their hair? She's like, it's wet. It's like Hillary. Hillary's hair would totally change. Yeah. Um,

And Joyce would too, depending on how much we had blowed it dry or if she pulled down her ponytail after the first take and said it wouldn't show. Probably wear the poncho that everybody but you hated. I didn't hate it. I thought it was cute. Ponchos were in by then, but I don't know if that leather pants knew that.

By the way. Okay. So the one that shall not be spoken of will forever now be known as leather pants. Jojo has branded it. It's done. It was good at nicknames. Started out blue jeans and went leather pants. Wow. Oh,

Hey, JoJo, because I think some of the technical stuff is really interesting to people, especially like, you know, some of the language we know, like does it read, whatever, whatever. And you just said if there's anybody listening who wants to be a hairstylist, write down what you're doing. I'm actually curious because I do think there's probably a lot of people listening to this show who are into the film industry. Can you explain to people listening who might be curious about your line of work, like why

What is day-to-day life like on set for a hairstylist? And what's the difference when you're a key hairstylist or you're the department head for hair? What do those things mean for you?

For film industry curious listeners at home. Hello, curious listeners. You can have a team of yourself and two more or three more. And depending upon the size of the TV series you're on or the movie. I haven't done a movie in a while. But episodic, after doing movies and doing episodic, it is so...

hard. It's much harder than a film or features, but the family unit that you build with, um, and everybody knowing your name is so much, just, just means so much more. Um, and probably had, you're pretty much, you know, you're in charge of, um, well on the show I'm on the guys, you know, really let us be involved in the creative process. So we've actually got, I got to help create these characters and their hairstyles and stuff. Um,

So you do that and you make sure the scheduling is right. And it turns out sometimes the department head turns out to be more about making the schedules and paperwork and sending in budgets and ordering and ordering and ordering. But you're doing a lot of management work when you're the department. Yes. And you get yourself a good team and you get to do both. That's that's that's the juggling that you do.

And then you're on set making sure those hairstyles look awesome all day. And sometimes you have to make that same hairstyle look the same for eight hours when, in fact, on the show, it might be one second or one minute. And then you also have to be a therapist. I would say I just lived it a little bit before y'all did. Yeah.

So I think you were well suited to us though, Joe, because you like bartended back in the day. Like your, your experience back in the day was kind of what we as young actresses were living and just like going out in a town, going to see bands, like just trying to get involved and,

and you really coached us through it. We always had good music in the trailer. We had good coffee in the trailer, we had good music in the trailer, and we had good vodka in the trailer, and I don't know if you can go wrong with that combination. JoJo, what are some of your strongest memories from your time on One Tree Hill? I want to say flashback, but when everybody was dressed up, there's so many. Watching Lee Norris cheer,

That was absolutely one of my favorite, favorite

You worked so hard. You did so good. Whereas the real cheerleaders, all you girls, like, oh, we've got this. We've got this. And then there's like hundreds of real cheerleaders. And then y'all had to learn your routine. Oh, my God. Listen, that episode's coming up, Joe. And we were terrible. Y'all cracked me up. Y'all were like mad at each other, but not really. But then mad at yourself because you didn't get the routine. And we've got this. We've got this. Whatever. Whatever.

There's like 400 extras watching us. Lee Norris is jammed. I mean, he was so good. I hope everybody that's listening hasn't seen that episode so they're going to really know what Lee can do. Oh, he practiced for so long. But always when we had to do...

Do you remember when we had to do that stuff? They'd be like, well, we'll have someone come show it to you guys right before you have to film. And we were like, we can't learn a whole ass dance in 30 minutes. What are you guys talking about? Like, we don't know what we're doing. Y'all were so funny when you were, the 10 minutes you had to be taught, you know, before we shot it. Y'all were so funny. I had to walk away. I was like, oh my God.

Because that feeling of like trying so hard to focus and also knowing that no matter how hard you focus, you are just going to fail. Yeah. And there's all these people standing there looking at you. Did you come up with like, well, let's just be bad, you know, and make it look like we meant that or something. We were like, let's just start

start doing the robot and the can can we made up all that yeah oh my gosh not everybody can be a winner um yeah that was a good one Jojo was also great I would have these Halloween parties where we always had like a theme right oh yeah you're the only person I know that didn't have to decorate her house for Halloween I know

It's true, though. I mean, I lived in Squalor and Haunted House. Spooky. A coffee table that was a coffin. I did. I did. Oh, my God. I forgot about that. That's right. When I moved in with Jeff, he's like, you can't bring any of that. That is too much. Too much. But Joe would come decked out. I'm going to post some pictures from our Halloween parties.

Everyone would get to the house at like 9 or 10 and then JoJo will have sat in like hair and makeup for like three more hours. So by the time she gets to the party, she's already like half gone. I mean, I'll set it up.

You would set up and then you would disappear. You came as JoJo, the dog-faced girl. Yeah, because everybody liked to call me that because of my name. So Rachel decided that she would make me. And I remember drinking or eating. Rachel was our makeup artist. Oh, my God. I remember that hair. Oh, my God. I almost gagged just now thinking about it. Because I almost...

It was our carnival theme party. What'd you do for the, Oh, you came dressed as a princess to our fairytale party. That was a good one. Were you like an evil queen? Yes. It's good to have a bartending hairdressing friend to take care of you at your party. Yes, indeedy. I just remember when you had the big, you put up the big screen and you're at one of your houses and you showed movies and stuff.

Yeah, I didn't get a TV. I just had a projector and I painted a giant, yeah, like a reflective screen on the wall. That was at my old, that place on Orange Street. And I had big velvet curtains and I loved antique shopping in Wilmington. That was so fun. I want to know some secrets. I want to know some like, what's some like fun stuff that we can talk about that's like fun trailer secrets that we would have forgotten or, you know,

things that maybe like some of us don't know because others weren't there okay so the secrets are joy didn't know what a hickey was oh my god and the other secret barbara ellen woods they asked her to be in uh bra and panties on the billboard thing remember oh that's right and she asked me that's right oh i mean i don't know what do you think why why why why i said you know what barbara

I can't remember. I just said, you know what? I don't know how old you are or whatever. But you know what? I remember reading that an actor, a real famous actor said she wished she would have done more in her 40s or 30s. You know, when she was in her 50s, she was saying this.

And I said, you know what, Barbara, you got a rocking body. Freaking show it off. Just do it. Guys, JoJo literally said that to me two months ago. She was doing my hair at her house in Georgia. And she's like, Hillary, you're covering up too much. It's time. She had to do it on TV in the middle of all those crew members in bra and panties on a damn TV.

billboard and stuff. And I said, if you don't want to do it, don't do it. But you know, do it. Don't do it because they're making you do it because you want to say, look at me, I'm fucking rocking this body. And she did it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You did always add that perspective to a lot of the stuff that we had to do where it was like, you know what? Some of this is really kind of misogynistic and whatever, but if we own it,

and do it our way and posture it in the way that we're comfortable. It helped so much to know that there were women on our team and we had to do some of this stuff. I mean, like the sex scenes that we had to shoot as teenagers. Oh my God. I had to leave the stage if I heard, you know, because the sound is so much louder when you're, you know, when you're on stage.

Especially when you... It's horrible. That kissing thing, I loved all of you so much. I said, if I have to listen to the kiss one more time, I'm going to throw up. I mean, I just have to, you know...

It felt voyeuristic and I didn't like it. You were there for all of the battles that we would have about those scenes and about like what we were supposed to wear and, you know, how in depth the scenes were going to be and us fighting for our characters and knowing that we were in a position of young high school girls looking up to us and being and really caring about the message that we were putting out for them. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I remember that too. I remember that you were always there. You heard all of it and you were constantly giving us advice on, on,

never telling us what to do, but like helping us sort out what our thoughts actually were so that we could present an argument to the people that we were in charge, that we were butting up against, that was intelligent and adult and, you know, that we could really present ourselves in a way that was effective. Jojo, thanks for hanging out with us. Are we your favorites? Can we tell the other kids that we're your favorites? You like us the best. I think everybody knew that.

And I love you guys so much. It's not a day that goes by that I don't think about you. And say thank you for the stuff that you taught me. We love you so, so much. And I miss Paige. Oh, puppies. I know. Joanne, can I tell you something? I tell a story no less than once a month.

And I'll never forget it. And I think this is probably something I know it's a thing that I needed to hear. And I know it's probably something that so many of our listeners at home need to hear. You know, so many of us are really good at showing up for other people and loving our friends while doubting ourselves. I mean, it's it's what kept the three of us, you know.

What let us be manipulated for so long when we were little girls was that we, each of us like sat in the corner looking at the others being like, wow, they're so amazing. And I'm the odd man out. Like we didn't know how to turn it around and we didn't know how to get over the hurdle of just asking. And I remember being in your chair one day and I just was venting.

And I was like, and I'm bad at this and I'm failing at this and this isn't working. And I was just like really on a moment of criticizing myself so aggressively the way that, you know, we all negative self-talk, but I was doing it out loud in front of you. And you went and you listened and then you went,

And I could just feel your hand getting like more frantic in my hair. And finally, you threw the brush on the counter and you spun me around in the chair. You grabbed me by the shoulders and you shook me. And you looked me in the eye and you said, you watch your mouth. You're talking about my best friend. Oh, my God.

And even now it makes me want to cry. It was such, I mean, you shook me out of some things. And I realized I would never let anybody talk about any of you the way I was talking about myself. It was such a wake up call. And I tell that story to anybody who was having a bad day. I'm like, well, you know what my friend Jojo said to me one day? Because it's just,

Oh, it's so good. It's so good. You also said, was it you or was it Kelly Jefferson who said my second favorite thing to me about a goat? Kelly Jefferson. Was it Kelly or was it you? It was Kelly Jefferson. Kelly Jefferson. You can also tell me how to eat a whole cupcake without messing up your lipstick. Okay. All right. We need Kelly Jefferson on this show. Kelly was our makeup artist. We'll have to have her on next. Kelly Jefferson told me, you know, all of us ladies, we went through some...

falling ins and outs of love. And I'll never forget Kelly one day when we were all venting in the trailer going, oh, girls, come on. She goes, love and hate are just two horns on the same goat. That's so Southern. It's so Southern.

good so the two of you really gave us some jewels for our crown can we do it again yeah love you Jojo we love you so much I love you Jo bye tell Dean we love him bye Joy bye Sophia bye Haley bye honey bye oh my god oh my god wow it still brings me to be able to just pick right back up with people you know right back up

I feel like I got really lucky because I went to go visit Jeff on set on The Walking Dead a few years ago. And I didn't have George yet. So I bring Gus to set. And Taylor, who is the key hairdresser on The Walking Dead, had done our pilot. She was the hairdresser on the pilot.

And it's only when she didn't sign up to do the whole show that JoJo came in and took over. And they're like best friends. So Taylor comes out of the trailer and goes, oh, my God. Wait until you see who's here. And the door flies open and JoJo comes running out. And we just like burst into tears. And it was Jeff's like, why are you crying? What is going on right now?

But it's so nice to have those friendships that are only born from like being together 18 hours a day, every single day. And they last forever. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, being on set the way we all do it.

both with the location and the hours. You know, I joked with a friend on a job recently that it's kind of like an arranged marriage. Yes. Like you just show up and you're married to this whole group of people. Yeah. Because you see these people way more than you see anybody you might actually be married to or know. And you're just like in it for a decade. And you got to figure it out. Yeah.

Yeah. You got to figure it out. Yeah. All right. Okay. We're going to take a quick break and we'll come right back and have a little bit more to talk about with this episode. We had some Haley and Peyton connecting. We had some really nice acting work from James Lafferty. And we also have a spinning wheel of most likely two and some listener questions. So stay tuned.

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One of the things that I'm realizing after reminiscing with JoJo, our favorite gal, is

on planet one tree hill is that she had that energy for us that you saw in Deb tonight when she was like, you smug son of a bitch. I will stab you in your sleep. I'm like, I believe Barbara would do that for us. And also Jojo's that kind of woman. She is the one who's like, you mess with my girls and I'll bleach all your hair off. Yeah. By the way. By the

Like a little nick on the ear here. Oh, you want a haircut? A little. Yep. Oh, I'm sorry. Is that my curl iron? I'm so sorry. Oh, no. Yeah. She's one of those people who will come to your defense. What a treat. Yep. She's amazing. But it was cool to see Deb's escalation over the course of how many episodes has it been, Joy? Well, I guess four since she appeared, I think. Yeah.

But yeah, it's been a slow burn. And as we've said, she's handled it with class the entire time, leading by example, setting an example of how to be patient and kind and loving, but still have boundaries. But this was the last straw. You cannot keep a mother from her injured son. No way. Yeah.

Yeah, I liked seeing her blow a gasket. And I think it, you know, Barbara talked about this herself. She's like, once they saw what I could do, you know, that three episode arc, it gave them ideas for other stuff. And so you see the seed being planted for like,

intense Deb later down the road. The one that's like yelling to people for fun, you know, like we're seeing her maybe enjoy it. Yeah. Like this feels new. That's right. I really liked the scene that you and I had Hillary in the, with the library. It feels good to have Jojo on for this episode in particular, because as someone that grew up with all brothers, I always had difficulty understanding,

communicating with girls my own age. I could communicate with like older women because I grew up doing theater with them and I could communicate with like little girls, but girls my own age, I struggled with. And Jojo was such a good girlfriend coach. Like Jojo, if I took something the wrong way, other people might feed into it and be like, oh, that is messed up. And Jojo was always like, grow up.

Like, what's the problem? Okay, that sounds dumb. You know, like, she was like, be a good girlfriend. You show up, you listen. It's not about you. You know, like, yeah, she didn't mince words, which I needed. I needed a firm hand. And and she was like,

You know, a lot of people treat actors with kid gloves. And I think that was crazy. Well, so that was a problem on our show. I think every other department has a department head, right? Yeah. Who sets the tone for their department can reprimand people. There's no department head for the talent department, right? So we don't have meetings. Well, number one on the call sheet usually, you know, is supposed to set the tone.

But we were kids. You're talking about kids? Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah, when a kid is the number one, it's a recipe for disaster. Because when you're a kid, you don't know what you're doing. Yeah, what are they going to tell Moira, you know? Right. That's a bad idea. Oh, Moira. Moira should have been the department head of the office. Yes. God, she would have been great. We need a department head in...

In our group. And so for me personally to have JoJo be like, be a good girlfriend and value your female friendships more than boys. Yeah. You know, she was always that cheerleader. Yeah. But the scene, yeah, the scene with Haley and Peyton is so important to me personally because we'd struggled with all the sexuality stuff. And I think it's the first time really that Peyton sounds like

jealous that Haley is a virgin, you know? And I think there are girls really like that out there. Yeah. I know there are. I was one for sure in high school. I mean, and that's why it was important to me to,

read the line that way. Cause it was written on paper as like an embarrassed, like, well, so what if I am like, don't make fun of me, blah, blah, blah. And I like most of the girls that I went to high school with were virgins for, I mean, I don't know what happens after they graduated, but at least during, you know, during the time that I was there, like that, that was the majority. And, um, I just wanted to represent that as a, a normal, um,

You know what I mean? So I'm glad that they allowed me to do that as well. I think it's important especially because for so long, and I know we're having different conversations now, but we certainly were not in 03. For so long, virginity was represented as this thing

That like made you special, but also made you prude and that guys would try to take, but you shouldn't give them, but then you shouldn't not because then you're a tease. And then you're ruined if you do suddenly. Yeah, like it was all wrapped up in the male gaze and in the like traditional Madonna whore complex and all this gross toxicity. And it was so refreshing to me that

not being in the scene with you guys, just watching it, to see two girls with two different experiences, neither of whom... With the same boy! Yeah!

I wasn't even thinking about that. I was just thinking like neither of them's being judged. Like you make your choices as a woman and you do what you're ready for period. And it doesn't have to do with anybody else or a boy or what anyone else is going to say to you. And I loved that, that neither Haley or Peyton was shamed in that scene. Neither of them was made better than the other. They were just being supportive. Yeah.

It's really beautiful. It's beautiful. It was beautiful. And you guys played it so beautifully. And Joy, I love that you made that choice to be like, so what? Like, I like me, you know? Yeah.

It was such a good vibe. I'm into myself. Well, it gave everyone permission. Yeah. Yeah. I really wanted to. That was a really intentional choice. And I remember that they... Because I remember the way that it was written. I remember it was like she was supposed to be embarrassed. And I just was so... I don't know if I had to fight for that or if they just let me. I don't remember. When we watched it, I didn't remember us shooting it. And the more we talk about it, the more I remember... Like now...

Now I'm remembering the muscle memory of that scene. Ooh. And I remember it being a conversation. I remember it being like a thing that,

That you were very concerned about and you were like, this is how it's happening. And that's the only way it's going to happen, which was awesome. Yeah. Well, we were all very conscious. As I said before, we were conscious that there were young girls looking up to us and there was already a lot of sexualization happening on the show from a, from a male perspective. And, um, it just, it was so, uh, it was just so important to me that, that there was, uh,

demographic represented in a positive way, you know, so that girls just that weren't making that choice did feel comfortable with it and had somebody to... Weren't getting tattoos and getting drunk in bars. They just had somebody to identify with that was like, you know, I like the way she's doing it. And that they felt it wasn't like an embarrassment. It wasn't posturing or trying to like make up for like, oh, no, I like it. It's fine. I'm a virgin. Well, leave me alone. You know, none of that. No, it was just...

I wanted it to be confident and totally comfortable with who she is. But anyway, we've talked enough about that. And I want to talk about James in this episode because he is so damn good. So good.

I remember he was working with a coach too, an acting coach, which is such a testament to, I mean, he's 17 or 18 at the time and so committed to this work, so committed to doing a great job and showing up on, with the work done and prepared and ready to just dive in and commit fully emotionally to the scene. Not a lot of young guys have that.

have that in them. Well, there's also a lot of ego. Like, I don't need a coach. I don't need a coach. You know? Right. James was so willing to do whatever it took to find it. And his voice was the thing that really captured my attention because it was like, oh my God, that's a sick, sad kid. Yeah. When he comes to Haley after the hospital incident,

That sound is heartbreaking. His voice sounds like broken glass. Yeah, it does. It was such a great choice. And I loved, too, thinking about the connection of these two scenes. The moment between you two ladies in the tutoring center...

makes it so clear when he's apologizing for his behavior, for pressuring her physically, saying that she was the one he looked at before he really blacked out. And he admits his terror. He says, I was terrified. And then asks to stay. It's so clear that he just wants to be held. He wants to sleep next to her.

And, and I don't know if that would have been as clear when she shuts the door, if it hadn't have been for the scene between the two of you and, and Haley owning her, her choice to, you know, wait to be intimate. And, and it, it just gave it, it gave it this innocence and this vulnerability that, oh, that's a beautiful scene between you two. Thank you. I loved it too. I thought, um, I liked also that, uh,

I didn't remember shooting the scene, so I was a little unsure of what was going to happen. And I was like, is this going to go in the direction of Haley now is going to be willing to sleep with him because she feels bad for him because she wants to take care of him in some way? Because that's a bad, hey, at home, don't do that. Yeah, that's not the way. That's not the way. But yeah, I was a little unsure, but it felt to me like when she shut the door, it was more of a choice of like,

I'm going to do something that I'm not supposed to boy sleep over. But it's like Haley's parents trusted her and she wasn't – I'm having a boy sleep over to have sex with him. I'm having this boy sleep over because he needs me and I'm a good friend and I'm a good person. And I'm going to cross a line that I'm not supposed to, but it's not really –

doing anything that's breaking her own boundaries. Do you know what I'm saying? Sorry if I'm babbling. Absolutely. Because there are so many incremental lines as a young woman, especially before you choose to be in a physically intimate relationship. Like, you know,

When he ruins it in the beginning of the episode and you guys are making out and then he tries to move on you and you're like, get out. It's like, oh, remember a good old fashioned just high school makeout? Yeah. Like how sweet. They're so awesome. And like, I mean, we might know your husband. We can tell him. But like there's all these things, you know, the first time you sleep next to someone.

It's such a big deal. And the beauty and the like sweet, youthful innocence of loving a person and like curling up and just going to sleep. It's so nice. And to be able to go back into that high school space and take all of the much smaller, you know, increments is really lovely that we get to do it with these two. And that...

Granted, he pushes her too far, but she stands up for herself. He gets out. He realizes he was pushy. He apologizes. You know, relationships can be a little complicated in those ways, especially when you're young and fumbly and terrible. Young boys can be terrible. And I think to figure out where everyone's boundaries are,

It's lovely to see it between two characters who are at different levels of sexual experience. I remember being told, like, well, once a boy has sex, like, that's all he's ever gonna want, you know? Like, don't date the boys who are loose because they'll expect that from you. Always date, like, the square boys, which I never did. But...

That was like a thing. You know, you can't put Pandora's box like you can't close it once it's been opened, which I think is bullshit. And also it gives this notion of like all boys will be boys. Their hormones way too much power and it gives them excuses.

It's like, no, you're going to listen to a woman. Consent is not a, who said this? Oh my God. Oh, Taylor Tomlinson. She is one of my favorite comedians. And she said, consent is not a feeling you feel. It's a thing she says. Yes. It has to be clear. Like, and, and, and I, we talked about this a while back, but this actually feels like an important thing to kind of get in the weeds on. Being a human is messy.

Okay, like getting into a friendship is messy. We all talk about the messiness of our friendships and our confusion at 21. It can be a little messy when people are trying to figure out, especially people who could potentially be interested in each other, like,

Does this person like me as a friend or does this person like me romantically? Sometimes it means, you know, you get hit on by a guy and you have to be like, not into you that way. Let's be friends. That was so nice. No, thank you. Yeah, no thanks. I'm flattered. Thank you. That's okay. That's normal. Having to figure out your boundaries is normal. And then there's obviously the other more complex nightmarish spaces of,

Abuses of power and harassment and things that we've also all been very open to. And I think what can be really sticky for everybody is figuring out as we're trying to get much clearer as a society where in society,

our own experiences there, you know, as one of one, like where is there room to make a mistake or to ask or to say like, Hey, I'm very interested in you. And I don't know if you feel the same way. And if you don't, that's okay. Not trying to make you uncomfortable. Like how nobody knows quite how to do it. Right. And, and so one of the things I like is that

We didn't smooth it over in the story and like make it all seem perfect and squeaky clean. Like Nathan screwed up. Haley stood up for herself. He said, I'm really sorry I pushed you that way. Like I like that we showed how you can overcome a mistake if you're willing to be communicative and be a good person. Communication is everything. It is everything. And by Haley closing the door at the end of that scene, she,

To me, that says apology accepted and I trust you not to do it again. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. You know, which is sweet. It's also I'm jealous having watched this episode that you're seen turned out like loving and nice. And Peyton was left at a door for 27 minutes. Oh, my God. It's the longest scene of all time between the three of us.

Holy shit. Like, what is that? I don't know. Guys, I was on a soap opera for two years. That was the longest I ever saw. The longest unspoken look to look to look to look. I will also say this is the second time in the first nine episodes that Brooke Davis has been used purely as a device to like make something happen for another person. So at the party, she's a nightmare to stir up the drama so everyone fights. Yes.

And now I've had to get a tattoo so we can cover Chad's real tattoo. And then, but like, interestingly, even though they were pretending to be grownups at this bar, there were moments of sweetness, like working Lucas, joking about weird science and talking about what they're into. It was fun. I loved that scene. Yeah. And then you get right back into like some ding dong boy. Always wanted a girl to say this to him. I come out of that bedroom going, you're ready to score. Yeah.

It's so gross. I missed that. I didn't hear that. That's what you said. All right, superstar, you ready to score? It's so disgusting. I would never. And the fact that the two girls never say we're best friends and we don't even say sup. Yeah. Yeah, nothing. No.

Can we just promise that if we're ever kissing the same person in the, you know, the next 70 decade or 70 years, if we see each other, like, let's say sup. Yeah. Sup. Yeah. Sup.

That's what we could do. Most likely to have a stare down. Most likely to be in the world's longest soap opera scene. Me and Hillary. I want somebody to cut together all of the soap opera stares. Like the longest soap opera stares in history. Just the stares. That's what I want to see. I would love that. Oh, speaking of the amazing things our fans do for us, and we did talk about Brooke and Lucas having this pool shark evening at the Blue Post. Yes.

One of you guys tweeted me a photo of my plaque from the Blue Post Beer Club that is still up. And I just want to say thank you very much. I really like it. Round of applause. Round of applause. Round of applause for our awesome fans. All right, let's spin the wheel. Oh, guys. Guys. Most likely to marry someone 25 years older than them. Yeah.

We're not at 25. On our show, it's Rachel. Yes. That is true. And in real life, Hillary, how much older than you is Jeffrey? We're at a strong 17. Pretty great. Listen, what I like is that to him, I'll be 26 forever. Like forever. Forever.

which is great. Like that's, that's the upside. So if you want to be a pet forever, you know, joy, do we know how much older than you? Craig Sheffer is. Cause I might still be single. I'm just saying, I could break my record. What a love story. That would be guys. No, listen, I think, I think, I think it was a girlhood crush. I think I'm like, I've moved. Yeah.

It's all in the clear, but Joy, realistically though, you could beat my record. So we're going to open up the search. Watson has a question for us and I,

I'm going to go on a limb and say in the first nine episodes, from an acting perspective, what was the hardest scene to film, whether complex or emotionally and physically grueling? Because if we try to do that for the whole nine years, we're going to do a whole other episode. So far in these first nine episodes, what's been like, you know, the most complex for each of us to do?

I mean, running red lights felt real irresponsible. That was terrible, you know, because no one could really explain it to me. I had trouble with that, but I also had trouble with the whole like thud magazine. Like, it's my art, Lucas. It's my art.

That was hard for me to give that speech. Art is important. Art really, really matters to me. I felt like Zoolander, honestly. It's for kids who can't read good. Joy, what do you got? I don't know. I don't think I've had to do anything that was difficult yet. Everything. I mean, the most difficult thing for me as an actor was the basketball days when I just had to sit there. And, you know, that's just like a mental exercise in Zen practice.

Your ability to just like zen out. No, I haven't. Not yet. Not yet. I haven't had anything. What about you? Yeah, you just had so much like great, charming, like. Yeah, it was all pretty light for me. Real talk. I think the thing that was hardest for me was.

Yeah, like hooking up with random dudes on camera just felt so gross to me. Like, I don't know about this. Also, I don't know. You hear horror stories. And I remember just thinking, like, is it inappropriate of me to ask to guarantee that none of these people has, like, herpes before they put their face on my face? Yes. Like, it always just made me feel so nervous. And then the party episode was hard. Like, Brooke being...

what felt to me like cruel and having to find interior motivations to create reasons for that, I was just like, this feels sad. Yeah. I like this question from Katie. If Brooke Haley and Peyton were in high school today, what would their Instagram handles be? I mean, I guess I'd be TutorGirl23, right? Yes. TutorGirl23. Oh, for sure. I mean, Peyton.

hers was like punk and disorderly. There was one. Like she had punk and disorderly. That was your weapon. It would be something like grumpy, like go away, you know? Yeah. You know?

Don't look at me. Yeah, don't look at me. I feel like I see people who do this and I'm like, wow, that takes a lot of confidence. So I'm going to borrow from other people. I think because mine is just my name. I think Brooke's Instagram handle would probably be at the Brooke Davis. Yes, of course she would. There are people out there who are at the and then their name. And I'm like, damn, that takes confidence.

Confidence. I think that's what Brooke would do. Yeah. Strong move. That was a good question. Thanks, Katie. Well, thanks, everybody, for joining us for this episode of Drama Queens. Can't wait to see you next week. What a great one. Next episode is episode 10. We're getting into double digits, babies. It is called You Gotta Go There to Come Back, which is kind of what we're doing with this podcast. You know, we're coming back home. Oh, my God. Hey, it's cute.

We'll see you next week. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH. Or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We schooled Drama Girl, Drama about them high school queens. For a ride in our Comet Girl. Drama Girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama Queen. Drama Queen. Smart girl.

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