Lights, Camera, Cry on Cue! • EP115

2021/10/4

Chapters

Lucas's near-death experience leads him to reassess his relationships, particularly with Brooke and Peyton, causing him to waffle between them.

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Well, hey, hey, hey. Welcome back, everyone. This is episode 15, Suddenly Everything Has Changed. It's all changed. It's all changed. Too much change. Airdate February 24th, 2004. And the synopsis is after his near-death experience, Lucas decides he made the wrong choice. But what does that mean? Did he ever make a choice? That's the whole synopsis?

Yeah, that's what it says. There's a lot happening in this episode. A lot of other stuff happened in this episode. Also, before we get started, hey, we just want to say thank you to everyone who came to our live event. We had so much fun with you guys. We can't wait to do it again. And if you missed it, we will do this again. And we hope that you join us because we really had a ball. So thank you for everyone who came.

Yeah, I feel like slumber parties need to be, that's our brand, man. We are slumber party girls. That's the first time I've had a slumber party without my children in like forever. Ages. If I see my girlfriends at home, we all have our kids and stuff. I had a really good time, you guys. That was exactly what I needed. Babe.

Fantastic. You know, and we also got to be together while we talked to Paul, who really walked us through a lot of the Dan Scott decision making, which we saw on full display in this episode. You know, Paul explained to us that every decision he made was because he loved his kids so much. And so even through all of the like horrific stuff he's doing in this episode, he just keeps ringing that bell. He's like, it's because I love you.

It's because I love you, which is... It's interesting because, and we talked about this with Paul last week, if he were just playing it as a villain, he would be boring. But because as an actor, he is coloring Dan's deeply narcissistic, deeply abusive, on-the-page behavior with...

It's like toxic love is a really interesting thing to explore because so many people go through it. So many people come from, you know, families where there's generational abuse, where there's inherited trauma and you start to see it unfold. He does such a beautiful job with it.

It's such a weird thing to be like, oh, Paul, you do such a beautiful job making us all cringe. You are real good at being terrible. Listen, the Deb stuff is killing me. We're jumping out of order in like what happened in this episode, but not knowing what Deb did. Guys, I don't remember. Is it something as simple as an affair? Because like, who cares? You know? Yeah. And do we really blame her with being married to this sociopath? No. No.

I'm so curious, guys. Was it pain meds? Did she like, did she end up like, because I know that was later. Maybe I'm just jaded at this point, but I'm like, what could she have done that is so bad that she's like, oh, the town can never know about this. Like the town. Who cares? I suppose we have to remember early aughts, small town, women weren't allowed to do anything wrong. Yeah, that's true. It's a different time. Yeah.

Yeah. Now we're out here making poor choices. And being like, what do you want from me? I'm a human. You know? It weirdly made me think of when we all did the time capsule and Brooke talks about how, you

You know, you can basically make any mistake and be any kind of average if you're a man. But as a woman, you're not allowed to. Yeah. And interesting. And I wonder, you know, if we were feeling that, you know, playing high school kids in the early aughts, what were grownups with actual kids like?

What have they been steeped in? Honestly, like what could Deb have done? Let's guess because I figure we're going to find out in the next episode or two. What could Deb have done that would be like game changer, deal breaker? It's also hard because everyone on our show did every wrong thing.

Right. People had addictions. People had affairs. People drunk drove. They did all the bad things. So given the fact that every character on our show has done something ridiculous. Real bad.

Like, what could she have done? Like, the only thing I can think of is, like, if she tried to drown Nathan in the bathtub when he was a toddler, you know? Oh, God. Oh, my God. Horrendous. By the way, that's a piece of information that I could see being, like, horrific and would drive a wedge between Nathan and his mother. But if she's kissing some dude on, like, a business conference... Did she embezzle money? Who cares? Ha ha ha!

Honestly, that's not a game changer. Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to think of what it would be. I don't know.

I don't know. I can't wait to find out. They're really – boy, they know how to draw some things out, but other things they just speed racer through. This whole – I mean, Peyton and Lucas hooking back up again. It was so – it feels so soon. Can't they, like, just suspend our suspense for a little while? They were like, you know that thing in other TV shows where they don't let the characters get together for a really long time so the audience really wants it? We're not going to do that on this show. Yeah.

Yeah. We're going to do the opposite. Tried and true tested method of drawing people in. Nah. No, this is not moonlighting. No, they really just skip ahead. I mean, even in the last episode, you've seen Brooke and Karen sort of begin to have this bonding. And then Lucas wakes up and is just like, Mom, did Peyton come to see me? It's like...

What? And Karen's sitting there going, what's going on? But doesn't even get to ask the question till the end of the episode. Her befuddlement was probably the thing I connected with most in this episode, because even as a viewer, I'm like, buddy, I have whiplash. Like, what is your situation and what's

Also, I really wish that they had – I mean, I get what the show was and what the time that it was on in terms of being in the early 2000s and what was happening on TV and all that. But, you know, nowadays, I feel like storytelling gets a little more authentic in television in this realm. And I really wish that they had gone into the depth of –

Yeah.

go yeah school just started like please stop it quit sending me flowers quit showing up on my doorstep quit not that he did showing you flowers but peace also by the way everyone shows up at Peyton's house they just walk in but we'll get there but guys join us complain that's the song I want Jimmy Allen to write about just walking into people's houses just like

I don't need a key. But anyway, that's right. I just really wish we had spent some more time understanding why, you know, that's problematic. Take that down then for a second, because we've broken down our own characters, you know, like Brooke needs somebody to cuddle her. She needs a mom to tuck her in. Peyton clearly has her own bag of shit. You know, Haley is one of a lot of kids, so creates these really strong boundaries and

Lucas is a kid who I think grew up with a lot of shame because he didn't have a father and everyone knew who his father was, knew who his brother was. And so does that shame kind of...

I guess, encourage him to want to be with one of these popular girls. Like if I'm with the captain of the cheerleading squad, does that validate me? If I'm with this other girl who's even more damaged than I am, does that make me the hero? So he's going between being like, he's going between being the fixer upper and the fixer. You know, each girl presents a different path for him.

And so no wonder that he's waffling back and forth. It's what we're starting to understand maybe in this episode, right?

for the first time is, oh, as we're looking at what some of the behaviors are, especially for men behaving inappropriately on our show, we already know what our characters did inappropriately. We've been mortified about it for 18 years. Like, we've thought a lot about it. But, like, looking at Nathan starting off as a bad guy, looking at the way that Dan treats his families, plural, I think now we're starting to see, oh, what could the motivation be?

underneath the really at current bad behavior we see Lucas displaying. And what I think is actually really interesting, and this is where, you know, some of the writing comes in, they were really rushing through it. Whereas Dan got more time to unpack his stuff. Yeah. They rushed the drama with the kids. They rushed the sex. They rushed the, you know, betrayals. They rushed us through a lot.

But I think it would have been so nice to see this stuff for Lucas slow down. And actually, imagine if he'd ever been able to talk to Haley about this. Oh, yeah. In any scene, ever. Not just like, I love her. No, I love her. Even just Haley being like, hey, man.

why are you coming on so strong? Like, what is your need here? Because it's actually really selfish. It has nothing to do with these girls. This is about you feeding yourself and trying to get full of whatever it is that you feel like you're missing. So how can we address that instead of you using these other two people to fill that void in your life? I

I will just say I'm very proud of the adults we've become because the things we're saying require immense emotional maturity and we've all obviously been to therapy and I think it's great. We all love you. We did the work, guys. We've done the work and now we see how other people need to do the work. That is the difference between storytelling in 2003 where it was revolutionary for a boy to be tender. I mean, I feel like James Van Der Beek on Dawson's Creek was really the first time I saw a boy exhibiting stereotypically like female behavior and

And so our boys lean into that in the world of One Tree Hill, and that includes Jake with his daughter. 2021, though, we could go so much deeper, so much deeper and really dig into why Lucas is making the decisions he's making. I think he's just been...

rattled by this near-death experience. And so the way you overcome that is by saying, oh, no, no, no, I'm not a victim. I'm not, no, not me. Surely not me. I'm going to go fix someone else who's a disaster, you know, which is Peyton. Peyton's always the disaster. You're always saving me, you know?

To a guy with a hero complex, that's a turn on. And so if he's feeling like, oh, God, no, I was just a weakling who was in a coma for how long? Do we know? Was it a week, two weeks? I feel like it was a couple of... I mean, depending on how many times Karen changed her outfit. They gave her so many variations of purple shirts. They did. Purple shirt. I don't know. It was probably a week. Maybe less. That's a week long coma. But it's been at least a week. Yeah. Friends, we all...

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I am frustrated with Peyton in this episode because she came flying into his bedroom, kissing on him. And my natural assumption as a viewer was, oh, she must know that he broke things off with Brooke. Like he must have texted her or something. Yeah, I thought that too. Halfway through the scene when he's like, I broke up with Brooke. And she's like, what? No way. I'm so mad at her. Yeah. I know. Kid, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah.

I have to say, it's funny, you know, for everyone listening at home, for the three of us to watch these episodes together, because whenever one of our characters does a terrible thing, we go, oh my God, what is she doing? And the other two of us are dying laughing. And Hillary, I really felt for you in that moment, because you were like, she doesn't even know? She's kissing him and she doesn't even know? She doesn't know. And you were so upset. And we all...

were just like why did they do again you got to do what's on the page the script is written it's our job to do it yeah and and you just know that those are the days when you go to work and you're like I really don't want to do this I think this is a bad choice do you remember did you call it out on the day I mean well I mean say something I was always anytime I had to kiss anyone you guys know I was a bitch about it I was just like I don't want to do this um

Yeah. I mean, I think I was really frustrated because it felt like character assassination. It's like Peyton had done all this work to explain why she's such like an Eeyore, you know? And then you just got to go and screw it up by kissing this dude. The second he gets out of the hospital, she had exhibited restraint, you know, in all the previous episodes, you know, where Brooke's holding his hand at the side of the hospital bed and,

pain's just got to go. Clearly, Brooke has been in his bedroom. There's plants everywhere. There's crystals hanging from the blankets. Crystals? I don't know who she thinks did that. Did we even know what feng shui was in 2003? Was that like a new... That was new. I don't know. Now I'm like, is this inappropriate? I don't know. It's cultural appropriation, Brooke. That's what I was going to say. I was like, I don't know how I feel about that. But I will say it's...

When we're thinking about the ways that characters exhibit the things that make them feel validated. For Brooke, it's like, I'm going to take my credit card and go buy all these things and decorate your room so you know I love you. Oh, yeah. You know, that's the only way she's ever known to do anything. And I think it actually draws this really sweet through line later when Peyton is trying to

steadfast and says like, Brooke's my best friend. She came over every single day. You realize that from the age of nine, that's actually been the best validation. Like the, the best version of Brooke is the person who always shows up when someone's hurting. Yeah. And, and I think that creates the kind of double whammy at the end. Peyton's been trying to, to be the best version of herself and keeps getting sucked back into this thing. Oh,

Girl, Peyton should have had this wake-up call before she went flying into that bedroom. She didn't just remember at the end of the episode. I don't disagree. I don't disagree. Brooke's my best friend. There was a lot of sloppiness, a lot of messiness. I mean, Peyton leaving her webcam on. How about Lucas watching Peyton on her webcam while they're texting? Oh, God. Oh, God.

And she signs off the horror, the sign off. But you guys, okay, so instant messenger for you children out there that were not alive for that era.

Like, we'd all pretend we were doing our homework. So, like, senior year in high school, we'd get, like, a family computer where you can get on instant messenger. And you'd pretend to do your homework, but really you were, like, talking to boys. Or someone on the other side of the world, some stranger, because it was instant message. Like, you could connect with somebody that you just make a pen pal. Wait, who were you talking to? Were you talking to strangers on the internet? For sure. For sure. Joy! Listen, I was...

It was a stranger danger. I know, but I didn't get that at the time. I was just like, oh, this is cool. Like an instant message. I can just make a pen pal. Did you meet any princes on the other side of the world that needed you to funnel some money for them? Oh, God, I know, right? No, luckily I was a smart enough kid not to fall for anything like that, but.

I printed out instant message conversations with like certain boys that I liked because it was like, oh, heck yeah. You wanted to save it. Yeah. Jimmy Cain. Sup, Jimmy Cain. We had this like fight where he was like, you've changed. And I'm like, you've changed. You're me.

And then it was like, cool, you want to kiss later? And I loved that conversation. It's still tucked in a journal, like in my desk right now. Oh, yeah. Anyway, that's a tangent. However, what I love is that Peyton signed off of Instant Messenger but left the webcam on so he could still see her drawing. But she was like, this conversation's done. I have to stop talking to you. It's actually really funny because I was expecting...

at the moment of sign-off and then when it cuts to Lucas being so wounded because the sign-off is a deep cut. Oh, yeah. I thought the next shot would be Peyton like throwing a black hoodie over the computer and she didn't. She just left it on. I was like, that's really a choice. It's...

She's cruel in that way, you know, and maybe that's what he's attracted to is that she's unintentionally cruel. So it feels like a challenge. You know, Brooke is so just nice to him. Yeah. Pain's a dick. Sorry. You know, it's damage. What are you going to do? Yeah.

Yeah, I get it. He really is waffling back. You're right. You nailed it that he's going back and forth between needing to be with the girl that feels like she loves him and the love is easy. It's available. It's there. And he's just craving love from a praiseworthy source. And Brooke is so popular and so sweet and liked and loved.

That, I think, really draws him in. And then going back to feeling like he wants to feel like he's worthy or capable of helping and being a hero and fixing someone. I almost wonder if that, because Nathan has kind of always been the male version of Brooke, right? He's like the most popular kid. He's the captain of the team. She's the captain of the cheer squad, whatever. I wonder if, in a way, Lucas...

wanting Brooke's approval is it's almost like she says by being with him, she says you're worthy. And by, by being with Peyton, he gets to feel like he doesn't need to prove that he's worthy. You know what I mean? Like, like Brooke approves of him and that makes him feel like,

like he's popular enough but then to be with Peyton it's like he just is and then he gets to choose he gets to be the hero he gets to be the Nathan or the Brooke in a way he's got more control in the Peyton situation for sure um

I thought you were going to go in the direction of Haley just cleaned up Nathan's ass, right? And since they've done everything together their whole lives, is he unintentionally mirroring Haley by being with Brooke? Is it like, oh, we've done everything together. Like, we're going to rehab popular kids now? Okay, I guess so. Interesting. Oh, that's interesting. See what you started? Oh, such an interesting dynamic.

No, listen, this is what I really want to get into because I love the psychology of 2003. The end point we wanted to get to with Hayley in this episode of Hayley singing is a frickin' delight. I love that. But they were like, how do we show that Hayley wants to try new things? I know. We're going to dress her up real sexy. Right.

Straighten her hair. She's going to straighten her hair. Yes. We were joking, you guys watching the episode, because both me and Hillary wear turtlenecks at different points. And Joy, you're in that cute like wrap top. Like ballerina. And we were like, Haley's the last collar post. Yeah.

That's it. Just a full kitten in this episode. Yeah. Was that on the page or had you like asked for that? What was the story? Was what part on the page? What part of it? Getting all sexy. The sexier wardrobe and the different hair and that stuff. No, I don't think I did ask for it. I think that was their way of kind of giving Haley a reason to

come out of her shell a little bit. I mean, it was a little on the nose. I feel like I want to try new things, like, I don't know, snowboarding or maybe singing. It's just like a little on the nose. I feel like we could have drawn that out a little bit more, maybe over a couple episodes, but, you know, whatever. It was what it was. And I'm happy that I got to do that. It was a great song. It's Sarah McLachlan's song. I loved that album. It was a little low. I wish I had...

brought the key up a little bit. Did you pick that song? No, they picked, they, well, they gave me a couple options. They gave me a CD. Somebody gave me a CD in the production office. It was probably Joe Davola. He handed me a CD and he was like, pick one of these songs. So I, yo joy, pick a song. Call me tomorrow. Um,

Yeah, I went down the list and that was one of the ones I liked and it seemed like it was in my register. So yeah, we picked it and I had fun. I played the piano, so I learned basically how to play it. And I was really nervous. I was nervous to sing in front of everyone and...

I thought it was cool. I don't know. I still feel weird about it. It was cool. I mean, in my mind, you sang the whole show. So it's crazy to me that there was ever a before time. And so watching it like begin is exciting. You know, I've totally forgotten. Yeah.

And it feels cool because it was after the mid-season finale. Like this is when we've come back for the second half of season one, you know, after January, we kind of know what's going on. And it was so exciting because we all knew you sang. We knew you came from musical theater and, and to begin seeing it in the show, it's funny because having heard you sing now for, I mean, my God, almost 20 years, I'm like,

You're right. I was struck. I was like, oh, it's low and quiet. And I was going to ask you if it was a choice for you to drop a little and start quietly because Haley was scared, because it was her first time. I would love to tell you that that's the answer because people would love that juicy little detail, but it's totally not. I just picked the wrong key. But it worked. Maybe you did it

did it subconsciously maybe maybe I did because you have a bold like you can belt like almost no one I know and for you to kind of hold it back I was like oh she's playing this baby Haley it was nervous for sure and you know I think opening up as the song went on uh

It was fun. I also don't love my voice in a recording studio. I'm better live, and I always have been. I don't know if I would agree with that. I mean, you're good both ways, babe. Oh, thanks. Well, I just feel like I've always felt like I missed my calling and just being in musical theater for my whole life because I just feel like my voice sounds better live. Yeah.

So every time we would do this show, I would always have to go into the studio and record something and then lip sync it, which I'm kind of terrible at doing. I'm pretty bad at lip syncing. I don't know anyone who's good at it. And then they sync it up on the show. And it still happens in movies too where they sync it up and it's like just a millisecond off.

And I don't understand why they do that, but I wish we had done – and I hope one day I still get the chance to do a musical movie where you can actually sing like what they did in Les Mis. Les Mis.

Because I think that sounds great. But wow, I'm on a tangent. Sorry. No, you're not. All right. We're going to put out a call to action right now. Joy doesn't know I'm going to do this. Oh, no. I want someone to start an internet petition, that means all of you, for Joy to star in Waitress on Broadway. Oh, yes. Well, yes.

My my my business partner at Samuel Sweet Shop's, one of the producers, his wife, Adrian Shelley, wrote and directed the movie. And I want Joy to be the lead in that show. So freaking bad. And I know I'm not the only one. So somebody start a petition. Y'all pass that thing around because I'm fixing to go see my girlfriend on Broadway.

Oh, I love it. I love that you just said that because the whole time you were saying that joy, I was like, but what's the Broadway show you want to do? That was going to be my question. And I like that Hillary's like, this is the one, you know, I'm going to be bossy about it. So in, oh, that sounds amazing. Yes. All right. This is what you do when the love of your life, the apple of your eye, the bag you would beg for can wait no longer. You ready?

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Do you remember when we all went and saw Wicked? Oh, my God. It was right around this time. It was when we were going back and forth for MTV. Mm-hmm. And we all went, and I don't even remember what theater it was at. It was the original cast. It was Christian Chenoweth. Yes. And it was Dina Mazzone. And it wasn't just the three of us. We had James. A bunch of people came. Yeah, we had a lot of cast members. Everybody went. And we had those center orchestra seats. Oh, my God. I mean, those seats were unbelievable. It was amazing.

It was so amazing. I saw Wicked in San Francisco before they had come to Broadway because I had read the book and heard they were making a musical out of it. I was so excited because I was a huge fan of the book and Gregory Maguire's previous books, Politically Correct Bedtime Stories, which is hysterical if you've never read it.

And I fell in love with Wicked. Then I heard they were making a Broadway show, so I followed it. And then I went to San Francisco to see this preview with Kristen Chenoweth and Idina Menzel. And when I got there, the performance, Kristen had been in a fender bender or some kind of car accident where-

she was hurt and she was wearing a neck brace as Glinda and she had a rhinestone choker around the neck brace. I mean, the scene where she's like supposed to, you know, doing, she's popular and she's like, yeah, toss, toss. She's like shaking her hair and she's, her whole body's just like,

Oh, that's so cool. Oh, my God. The audience was dying. The fact that she worked in this neck brace into the character and just didn't – she wasn't like, no, I'm going to stay home and not work. Like, she showed up. You sounded like her. Yeah.

She showed up and performed even in this neck brace as Galinda. And we were... I mean, she is such a pro, man. Wow. You guys, I'm going to admit something to you. Gus and I listen to Broadway radio when we drive to school, when we drive to the city all the time. Us too. All the time. And when they play Change for Good...

Like, I think about U2 every time I hear that song and I cry and I've like taken video of it. Sometimes I'm like, I'm going to send this to them. And then I chicken out because I'm like, no, I'm being like too sentimental. I'm being too like, when they sing that duet, I think about the group of us, like taking the escalator into the theater, you know, because it's like, you know, right there in the middle of Times Square. And so you take this escalator and,

And I just think about all of us being so tentative with each other in that first season and where we're at now. And it makes me weep.

I remember that when we were in Wilmington when the show was so popular and we had the soundtrack in our cars. Oh, my God. And all three of us would sing to each other. We would sing that. Loathing, unadulterated loathing. Oh, my God. And we would do it. Remember? And Sophia, we would sing popular in the car. We would all sing along to popular. That was the show, man. Oh, my God. It was so good.

That was such a good show. Joy, you need to do a show. That's a big, huge no-duh. Joy needs to do a show, and I almost feel like at some point, not necessarily next, because we still have a lot of our own castmates to bring in, but...

y'all, we have nine seasons of this show to watch. I feel like maybe at some point we should do a slumber party that's wicked themed and invite the ladies. Let's invite Kristen. Let's invite Adina. Like, why not? They are drama queens. Like, are they ever? The, the queens. Oh my God. Okay, wait, should we start talking about our show again? Yeah, sorry. Wait, listen,

Back to the kind of genesis of Joy singing in the show. Joy, I've heard you tell the story about how they figured out you were a singer at like conventions. But for the, you know, 300,000 other people that haven't been to one of our conventions that listen to these podcasts, how did they figure that was your button to push? Anyone who spends longer than a day with me will realize that I sing every

Unconsciously. Like I will walk around singing. It's a comfort for me and I just do it. I think growing up as an only child, there was just some kind of, I feel like there's another person there. I'm really sad. Maybe that's why I talk to myself so much.

Hey. We're finding out all kinds of interesting things. Look at us. I know. So I sing to myself. It's like having a little radio with me. And I, you know, it's just a little habit that I have. And when we were filming one of the scenes on the rooftop, the golf course rooftop, it was on the top of a parking deck.

And so I would go down on the second levels. I'm also, because I'm an introvert, it's hard for me to stay on set with everyone all day long and I'll be on set, but then I tend to get really overwhelmed by all the people and I need to go find some place to be alone.

which often drives our PAs and AVs crazy because they're like, where the hell is Joy? We got eyes on Joy. We got eyes on Joy. We don't know where Joy is. If there's a piano in the building, she's at the piano. If there's a craft table near the building, she's at the craft table. Yeah, safe spaces, babe. And if there's neither of those things, good luck. She's under a desk somewhere. She's in a corner. Look in the corners.

you post a video in a tree house on your last movie set. That's right. I found a tree house. I'm always off. I've learned now to communicate. This is where I'll be. But anyway, I was in the Gulf

parking deck set and I went down to a lower level and the acoustics are great in parking decks. If you're a singer, you know this. And so I just started singing. I was probably singing Wicked or some great show that was out. Aida. Aida. Oh, don't get me started on Aida. Girl. Every story. Okay. Okay. Anyway. Parking deck. Parking deck. Parking deck. So we're in the parking deck and...

Mark and some other people are driving by on their little golf carts and they pull up and, um, uh, hear me singing. And, um, and then he asked me when I was on set, he was like, was that, was that was you singing? Huh? I said, yeah. And he's like, do you want to sing on the show? And I was like, uh,

Yeah, I guess so. Sure. And me being stupid. I was so stupid and like, is it going to confuse people? I'm like, maybe I should have two separate careers. And I don't know if I want to like bring my singing into Hollywood. I'm still a New Yorker. And like, I feel like a musical theater person. So emo. Such an emo, you know, artist. So dumb. So dumb. So I didn't.

embrace it as much as I wish I had but I was glad to do it and we had fun and I'm glad that they wrote that in and it became an interesting thing for Haley as obviously as we went down the line I got to go on tour and

write my own stuff and have it on iTunes. It was cool. It was really cool. And I got a recording contract with Epic Records. I mean, there was a lot of cool stuff came from that. So yeah, that was neat. It makes me wonder what they would have done with Hayley if the singing thing wasn't there. You know what I mean? It's so integral to who she is.

Totally. Yeah, I really don't know. That would be interesting to find out. I mean, I kind of feel like they didn't really know what to do with Haley, especially watching these last few episodes. I mean, she was like the whitey of the kids. She popped in and would like give advice. Yeah.

Camilla. Camilla. We needed one of us who wasn't a complete just twirling mess. Hayley is my favorite character watching everything back because she is what I want girls to be. Like the boundaries, you know? The security. That, I think when we were doing the show, I didn't necessarily clock that because we weren't having a conversation about like,

how girls protect themselves and how you move throughout the world in a way that is open, but not, you know, you're not prey for people to like pick off. Haley really embodies that. Like if George goes the Haley route, let's do that. It's good stuff. Yeah, man. We want to talk about the Karen Jake connection because that was, I loved this so much. I loved seeing her,

light up when he said, she's my daughter and recognizing a kindred spirit and another kid that she could help out. Oh, it broke my heart. Yeah. And it's interesting what

Moira in that scene as Karen was able to convey, she didn't say a word, but the way she reacted. And then as he was talking, made a face and they stayed on her, like the editors stayed with her. And I almost felt like I could hear her inner dialogue of, oh, you're a single parent too. It was so pure the way she saw him. And then the crib at the

That's what Paul was saying when Paul was on our show last week and he was saying what's great about Moira is she's always thinking. And that's so interesting to cut to as an editor. You want to cut to the person that's thinking. Whether they're talking and thinking or just sitting there listening and thinking. That's what Moira does. That's a perfect example. I liked, you know, if the idea that Karen has moved through this town with this cloak of shame. You know, she's like the Scarlet Letter in town. If...

The freedom that comes with knowing you're not the only one is really helpful. We went through that with the whole Me Too thing. It's like, wait, I'm not the problem. I'm not the only one. And so it would be interesting if it were like a high school girl that Karen were connecting with. Like, cool story. Yeah.

But the fact that it's a boy that she's already recognized, like, this is a really good kid. I'm hiring him because I think he's a good kid. He's nice to my son. He's good on the basketball team. He's responsible. And oh, my God, he did the same thing I did for an adult to get validation from a kid is. Yeah. I mean, that's. And I wonder if there's a layer deeper as well. It just strikes me as you're saying this, Hill, because.

The story, the stereotypical story we always hear is that a young girl gets pregnant and then gets dumped. And here is a young boy. Somewhere his girlfriend had a baby, but he's the dad. He stayed. I wonder if there's something...

underneath it, something unconscious or subconscious that makes Karen love him even more as an upstanding young man because he chose to stay and do the work. Baby, everybody loves Jake, even Karen. He's just George Clooney. Damn it. Damn it, George. Stealing Ryan away from us for a great job.

Okay, Brian... Sorry, Brian Greenberg. What... Jake. God, Joy. You can call him whatever you want to call him. I can. He makes everybody flustered, ladies. See? What is his name? Cute boy with a...

Good boy with the bangs. With the bangs. If anyone wants to message his wife, Jamie, and tell her how much we love her, too, she is the coolest. He deserved a really cool wife, and he certainly got one. But there was no shortage of Greenberg crushes back in the day. For sure. It's really fun, though, when you...

When you can giggle with your friend about how much everyone was in love with him as a kid. Everyone. And then go, yeah, and you grew up and now we're all kind of in love with your wife. Yeah. Jesus, no joke. Well done, dude. Yeah. That tracks. Well done. Jake calls Karen Miss Rowe and then she says, Karen, call me Karen, please. And this is kind of an off-topic question, but did you guys grow up calling adults Mr. and their last name, Mrs. and their last name, or just their first name?

Well, I'm Southern. So it was like, you know. Me too. Mr. Kevin or that's Miss Shirley, you know, like. Miss Lori. Yeah. Because I guess in Texas, it was always the last name and maybe that was just the circle. But in New Jersey, it was definitely always the last name. Oh.

Oh, yeah. Mr. and Mrs. Jordan or whatever it was. You just never said your first name. Oh, my gosh. It would be so disrespectful. But here and now in California, maybe it's a West Coast thing. Sophia, I don't know how you grew up. But here it's – Maria has two friends that call me Miss Lens and everybody else calls me Miss Joy. But I won't – I don't – she has one friend that calls me Joy. Oof. But I've known her since –

She was in kindergarten. And I don't know, it doesn't bother me. It's like whatever. Bunch of hippies, man. She's like family. Calling grownups by their first name. I know, I know. I remember, I will say, and maybe it's because, you know, my parents are from, you know, the East Coast and Canada. I don't know, but...

It was very, you know, Mr. Mrs. Miss last name. But I had a friend in high school whose parents insisted on being called by their first names and their kids called them by their first names. Their kids that I went to school with didn't even call them mom and dad. It was a first name. So it was like, it was more business partners, family quirks.

Yeah. They were like, you are the CEO. You pay your rent. I'll drive you to school. So it's funny because, no, I didn't really ever do that. But I do see more of that trend that you're talking about, Joy, where...

you know, friends, kids would, you know, they'll call me Miss Sophia. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, that's precious. It makes me feel like an elementary school teacher. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. It's sweet. I don't like the joy. There's only one girl that I allow her to call me joy.

And it still irks me a little bit. Begrudgingly? I love her so much. It looks begrudging. Yeah, it's begrudgingly. She's squinting, you guys. She's squinting right now. You're like this little girl. I love her so much, though. And I feel like at this point, it would be so strange to ask her to be more formal with me. So I'm just like, it's fine. Whatever. I love you. Class it up. You can't re-wrap that present. Right.

Well, like when we were growing up too, the other thing that you did was you called people aunt and uncle, even though they weren't your aunt and uncle. Like neighbors were always like, you know, aunt and uncle. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. You got to call grownups, grownups. I was the needy kid that called other people's parents, like mom and dad, just to like be funny. I'd be like, dad, I'm home. And they'd be like, oh, Kimmy Gibbler's here. Like, gross. Get her out of here. Yeah.

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Welcome to Cheaters and Backstabbers. I'm Shadi Diaz. And I'm Kate Robards. And we are New York City stand-up comedians and best friends. And we love a good cheating and backstabbing story. So this is a series where our guests reveal their most shocking cheating stories. Join us as we learn how to avoid getting our hearts broken or our backs slashed. Listen to Cheaters and Backstabbers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

I thought it was strange that she was specifically asking him to call her Karen. But maybe somebody in a writing room was a young dad. She's like, how old are you, Jake? That's right. You just call me Karen. She's like, it turns out I'm no longer in love with Keith and I'm on the market. In 10 years, I don't want you to think of me as Miss Karen. I just want you to think of me as Karen. I feel like if Greenberg would have stuck around the show, they would have gone that route with him. I would not have been surprised if he hooked up with a teacher. Would have.

Loved it. Yeah. You know what's interesting, though? As comical as it is, there is this rift. You know, we're all now fantasizing about Karen and Jake. It's fine. It's fine. It deserves an asterisk because don't forget, you know, Brian Greenberg was 23. This is okay. Yeah, he was like well into adulthood. Not an actual high school kid because, you know, someone will write that comment. But we do. We have this big rift. Yeah.

with Karen and Keith. And God, that scene at the end, I forgot about this. You know, none of us were in it. So it's not like we would remember filming it when Keith is trying to get a bank loan. And it's, it's the cycle of what keeps people in situations of financial insecurity that we as a society are really having now. We understand it. We have the transparency. We can analyze the data. We can,

You weren't really doing this then. And watching it now really like, I don't know, guys, it just broke my heart. Seeing that woman, you know, the actress hired to play the gal at the bank, like,

who says, well, your monthly earnings are not that high and what your mortgage would be doesn't really, she essentially said it doesn't make us feel secure to give you a loan and you just withdrew your life savings. And he says, yeah, but I had to pay medical bills. My nephew was in an accident and she's kind of like, sorry, that sounds like a you problem. And so many people in our country go through this

And go through versions of this and like the numbers out there, you know, the staff that gets thrown around a lot now is that the average American is a $400 emergency away. Oh, my God. From going bankrupt or becoming homeless. We just saw that during the pandemic, you know, the despair that that comes after a rejection like that. Yeah.

impacts so much of your life. And we're, you know, we know what's coming up for Keith a little bit. We know that he will spiral. And it's sad to watch the beginning stages of that. It's not fun. And when someone who does have a wonderful work ethic and he does just try to show up and do their best, doesn't get the help that they really need and honestly would absolutely deserve. Like if Keith got that loan, he would prove that he deserved it. Yeah. And would he?

not because it's a TV show and writers love drama so they might have torpedoed him anyway. But I realize that right now I'm leaning into Keith as a real person and I'm like he absolutely would have paid them back guys.

I don't know. Keith strikes me as the kind of guy who's not great with money and would have like made some bad choices because he seems like he's constantly running into whatever his demons are that create problems in his life where he can't ever quite get on top of them. I mean, I feel like that's a pattern established with him. Yeah. Yeah, they did definitely put that they put that hat on.

That was sort of the character. Which is super real. I mean, there's a lot of people who don't know how to handle money because they're just afraid of it. Especially like talk about dissecting a character. You look at a guy like him who I don't know what his story was growing up with Dan, which actually. Hi, Georgie. Hi, Kyle. George has entered the chat. Do you want to say hi to everybody? Here, come here. Say, hey, girls. Hi, Gail.

Okay. Hi, lady. Look at this mop of like a 1920s curl. She's got joy hair. She's got like the big curly joy hair. A bright smile too. Hi, baby. Are you going to be on a TV show? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I miss it when their voices are like this. Honestly, she'll make herself, we call it her Clint Eastwood stare. She'll just sit in front of the mirror and make herself cry and like squint at herself. And I'm like, girl.

Get that Emmy! The Emmy! I'll never forget talking about how hard it was to get to tears on set. And Joy, you were like, well, don't you just do this? And you showed me this thing, and you just held your eyes. And then you just had these big tears dripping down your face. And I was like, oh, f*** you, dude. Are you serious? And you were just like, oh, you have to learn this. And I was like, who are you, you magician? No!

So, hey, maybe, do you think you sat in front of the mirror like George in practice when you were a little wee one? No, I couldn't cry. I couldn't cry my, like, almost my entire adolescence and teenage years. And the first two years I was, first year and a half I was on the soap. I absolutely could not muster tears. It was like I had a huge emotional block. Yeah.

I spent so many years shoving tears down when I was in high school and when I was in middle school because I just didn't want it. I wanted to be tough. I didn't want anybody to ever see me cry. Totally.

Totally. Sometimes I would let it go if I was totally alone and nobody was around. But otherwise, I just got really good at like feeling the emotions come up to about my throat and using my entire body to just shove it all the way back down. I don't like that. No, it was terrible. And then when I went to act and I was trying to perform and cry and do a scene where I was sad or audition or something, I just could never. I could never cry. Couldn't do it. You were the best. Even when I was –

I did that Stephen King movie when I was 14. Oh, my God, Joy. I was so jealous. I was so jealous. There was a scene at the dinner table. I was supposed to cry, and I couldn't do it. And I was like, can we just have...

have somebody stick a pin in my foot under the table while I'm doing this scene so that I can it'll like make me tear up and they did they wouldn't actually I was like no like stick me in the foot with the pin like stick me and they wouldn't do it there was some insurance they're like this 12 year old is method she's serious we cannot end without talking about Sophia crying in the mall because you did such so good okay crying in the mall and

and then chewing Peyton's ass at the end of the episode. Powerhouse performances, babe. Yeah. That mall, we all kind of remembered that mall as being a not fun day at work. Oh, it was so uncomfortable. What was your side? Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. You pointed and I was like, which one? Oh, yeah. No, on my computer screen, you're there. I am...

I just remember I was actually still so nervous because I was like, I don't know how to cry unless I'm really upset. So the sort of like, God, I just think about it. I'm like, what do we do for a living? Just like emotionally manipulate ourselves? Anyway, sidebar. But I was really struggling and I have a hard time, which I realize makes my choice of a job super weird. I don't love to be looked at, especially by strangers. It like...

It is the thing that creates a lot of social anxiety in me. And I remember that day because I had to sit on that bench in one of the hallways of the mall in Wilmington. And you guys approached from the rotunda where the carousel was. Oh, yeah. And you like came down toward me, you know, down the hallway.

And you guys were going to walk up and it's the whole, you know, Brooke's crying about Lucas breaking up with her. Haley realizes that Lucas and Peyton haven't told Brooke and she's pissed. Peyton knows she's caught. It's this, it is a true triangle moment. But when the cameras were pointed at me and you guys were on the other side, they couldn't close the mall. They, they, they didn't like close the hallways. So by the time we got to my coverage, um,

hundreds of people were behind you guys. Just like looking and reaching and pointing and taking pictures. And I was like, I don't know if I can do this. Yeah, because everybody had called their friends by that time. Oh, God. We'd been there long enough that... Yeah, hours. Hours and hours and hours. Everybody was like, come down here. Uh-huh. They're filming One Tree Hill. And it's not that people aren't nice. It's just weird to be looked at like a zoo animal. Yeah. And there was no... Why was there nobody being like...

Like, corralling the crowds. We didn't have a lockup. It was season one, and they wanted it to be a scene because they were trying to, like, convince the network that we were a hit, you know? Like, that was on purpose. Yeah, because normally they would lock off a hallway, they would put up some barriers so we could all work in private, and they didn't do that. I think they were, like, you know, sending pictures back to L.A. of, like, look how many people showed up. Right. And...

remember years later you know how nice it would be when we all were working at Karen's and everybody was super cool I will say our fans are generally so respectful people would line up across the street we could go over at lunch and take photos and kiss babies and say hey this was just so close and we were I mean this was my first job like I didn't know what I was doing and

And I was just so scared. And the way it felt to have hundreds of faces staring, I couldn't get there. Oh, you did, though. Eventually I did. And I will say it's so interesting to realize how much we all love each other's characters, but also our own. Like, God, I go hard in the paint for Brooke Davis. And I'm just like looking at this little baby girl, like sobbing. And I'm like, oh, I feel so bad for her. That was really...

doesn't know. It was so good. Such a good scene. It was so raw and real and vulnerable. And then, you know, the way you turned it around when you came into Peyton's room when you showed up unannounced and just walked in because this girl who lives alone never locks her door. And you walked in her bedroom and just

You just gave it to her. And you knew the whole time, too. That's what was so interesting. You didn't let her have it at the hospital. You held on to it for like a day or two. Yeah. Why didn't Peyton wait for Brooke to like drive her from the hospital? You know what I mean? Like Peyton just like bolted. That was so rude. What's interesting to me, though, is because remember in the beginning when there's the scene with you guys in the bedroom where Peyton and Lucas are in the bedroom and I was like, oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. Does Brooke find out on the webcam? Oh, yes.

Like, I didn't remember. I wasn't sure. And when she goes in to check on Lucas and comes out and is pissed. Oh, I was like, why is she so pissed? I was like, oh, she turned on and saw that computer. The computer's in the shot when she walks in there and turns around. And I was like, it's the webcam. Oh, no. And I think there's something really interesting. I'm realizing now this was a great job done by the writers. Yeah.

Because Peyton has said to Lucas, I'm not going to do this. Like, this is my history with my best friend since I was nine. And he says that kind of shitty thing where he's like, oh, you know, we're not going to betray her any more than we have. And you just like hold the line. And again, writing, everybody relax. But the writers did a thing where they really leaned into the history of these two girls. Yeah.

Which I think informed the rage that Brooke comes in the room with. Because she doesn't go to Lucas and say, fuck off. I can't believe you hooked up with my best friend. She's like, you're my best friend and you did this thing behind my back.

And like, you didn't tell me. And that's what changes everything. And it's like, oh, oh, God. Because how hard would it be to tell your best friend that you're in love with their boyfriend? Oh, my God. But to Brooke, she's like, there's a right and there's a wrong. And this was wrong. And oh, man, I had to really bring I had to bring a lot of pent up anger into that scene. And it was.

Was boiling. I have a question about Peyton's hair. Oh, Christ. Because you have... No, listen. You have beautiful hair. You have big, beautiful curls. And we saw them for sure in the pilot and, like, several times throughout the first few episodes. And I know there was a lot with humidity, but I was just wondering what the, like...

It changed so much. It was like, I loved the curls in the beginning. And sometimes your natural curls showed up. And then sometimes they were crafted curls. And I just wasn't sure. I never asked. And I was, I don't know. It just occurred to me to ask you. Peyton's hair goes on a journey, you guys. This whole series, Peyton's hair is a journey. And what I love is that Miley Cyrus has that like bleach blonde mullet right now. And I'm like, it's easy to Peyton.

It validates me. No. So the humidity was a big deal. And then doing my hair every single day, every single scene. You know, what you didn't see behind the scenes is there was like a butane curling iron that in order for my hair to match, they would have to use that butane curling iron to wrap it after every single setup. Yeah.

But why didn't they just use your natural curl? Because it quit. It quit. They would... Like, you'd put gel in it or you'd put stuff in it to get it to scrunch up. We didn't have all the...

nice serums and things that we have now back then it was like la looks gel you know and nice throwback yeah girl come on i'm og um it would suck up the humidity straighten out and then they'd wrap it and you know it just started falling out in clumps also oh god i was a disaster guys my hair was just like falling out in clumps uh

Which is fine, you know. You always looked beautiful. It was just always so, it was like I never quite knew what I was going to see with your hair, like which hairstyle it was going to be. And I liked those crafted curls. I liked your natural curl. I liked your cuts. I thought it always, you always had something really cool going on. I liked that short bob that you did. The bob was my favorite. That was a good one. I loved the bob. Yeah, it was cute. I did a bob once. It wasn't good for me.

I think I liked your Bob so much. And then Victoria Beckham got a Bob. And then I was like, oh, no, I've made a mistake. I've made a terrible mistake and it's going to take four years to undo it. I thought that one. I did that Bob in season eight, I think. You did. You looked good. Yes. I don't know. Hey, before we get into superlatives, I just want to mention that one line that made us all gasp.

When Lucas finds out that Dan saved him from Keith and says, what am I supposed to do with this? I feel like that is the overarching message of this whole episode. Because it's either Karen saying, where am I supposed to put this? Peyton with her feelings, where am I supposed to put this? Brooke, you know, like everyone is kind of thinking that same thing. Where am I supposed to put this? Mm-hmm.

And Chad did a good job of delivering that line. I felt bad for him there. He really did. And you know what else I liked too is that he takes that energy of where am I supposed to put this and puts it into his retort when Lucas responds to Karen and says, I don't get it. Dan does one good thing and you cut him slack and Keith makes one mistake and you shut him out. Yeah. Ooh, that one, that cut deep for me too because you realize...

where people put their feelings and how they feel them doesn't always make sense. And it is messy. I feel that a lot in my life. Where am I supposed to put this? Where am I supposed to put this? Yeah. I,

I'm curious where Brooke's going to put all that anger in the next episode. I'm not going to lie. Frankly, I'm scared. I know. And what's Haley going to say? Because Haley's been the one who always says, what are the two of you doing? And this is the only episode where Haley realizes what's going on in that mall scene. And then we don't hear her give it to someone. And I'm like, oh, is it coming big next week? Because I don't remember. But if it is, I'm excited to see it. But it wasn't her place. I think it was just like, well, I'm... This is awkward. No.

Yeah, I can't wait to see what happens next week. All right, let's – should we spin a wheel? I want to spin it. Joy, we need you to write a song for this, like just a little musical ditty for the wheel spin. Spin the wheel.

All right. The winners who would marry a celebrity most likely to marry a celebrity. I mean, we shouldn't even do that in real life because that's weird. It is weird. Let's do which character is most likely to marry a celebrity. Rachel, right? Yeah. I mean, exactly what I was going to say. Yeah. That's a big no duh. Yeah. Yeah. Any of the boys. We have a girl. Do we have a boy that is most likely to marry a celebrity? No.

Why do I think it's mouth? Because he's so freaking lovable. Because he's just the most lovable person. I feel like, you know, like, like who's the... Oh, I know who would marry a celebrity. Who's the girl? Jake Jagielski and Ditch Us in season two. And then that show begins.

Oh my God. I love it. Guys, we have cute listener questions this week. One came from an anonymous fan and I kind of think Hillary, you nailed it. This person said, what is a song that will randomly play? And you immediately think of a scene in one tree hill. I,

I feel like it's when the Wicked soundtrack comes on and we think about each other. Yeah. I mean, that soundtrack really hits hard, guys. Those women singing at each other like, man, we fought a whole bunch, but I love the hell out of you. I love you. Yeah. That's us.

Is there a song that makes you think of a scene? Like Joy, now when you hear Sarah McLachlan, do you think of season one Haley or is that not a thing? And maybe that's just for me. When I hear that song, I do. Yeah. No. I mean, some of the other stuff I sang later on, I think I remember. A song I'll randomly play and make me, I mean, always the Switchfoot song. Dare you to move.

Yeah. I mean, that one always gets me. And of course our theme song. And yeah, no, I think it's that switch foot song is the one that really reminds me more than anything else. Do you have one?

It's not necessarily just a song, but yeah, very similarly. If Dare You to Move comes on, obviously anytime I hear Gavin, I start to giggle, which is weird for people who are with me who don't necessarily, you know, when you hear a song like playing in the background and no one else has noticed it yet. So I'm just laughing. Hyper aware. What? I'm like, do you hear it? Do you hear it? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think there are.

songs that were big deals. I mean, my God, do you guys remember when Kid Cudi came and played at Trick? Like that first record he released, I couldn't hear a Kid Cudi song without thinking about all of you.

That's not what lasts for me now, but there's always been moments where certain songs have hit on our soundtrack. I would say that Tegan and Sarah song, Don't Confess, is one for sure. And then Peyton has a conversation with like Ellie in season three where she talks about the song she hates the most is I think Celebration because it's the song that was playing in the hospital when her mom died. Yeah.

And like, I'm pretty sure that's what it was. And even if it's not, anytime I hear that song, I'm like, Payne's mom died. Like it ruined the song in real life. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Ruined. We need to reclaim that song for you. Okay. Next slumber party. Truly. We're having a dance party. All right, Joy, this question's for you. What hand did you have in Hailey's music? Did you write the songs yourself, co-write, or was it something the network handed you and you had to put your vocals to?

No, I wrote my own songs. Yes, you did.

Yeah. Some of them were good. Some of them were not good, but they let me sing them on the show anyway. Well, I'm curious. I kind of want to piggyback Justin's question here because, you know, you said that the first time you sang and you sang the Sarah McLachlan song, they'd given you a CD and they let you pick what you wanted to sing. When did it transition from Haley singing covers of popular songs to you, Joy, writing music for Haley? Do you remember? I think

Only that one. And then Halo was something I wrote with Cara Deaguardia. Cara Deaguardia, I always forget which vowel is at the end of her name. But she's a wonderful songwriter. And we got together and worked on that. I mean, she really wrote that song. I think I probably was like in the room and maybe said a couple things. But that was mostly her. And...

And then after Halo, I just brought them some of my own stuff. And I was also – by then I had a contract with Epic. And so I was doing a lot of my own music there. And we were trying to cross some of that over onto the show. And –

Yeah, I think it was right after Halo and then we did Quicksand and there was a couple of others. There was the one for the USO show, the kind of bluegrassy one. I could never quite find my groove, like my niche musically. I was just all over the place because I do love so many different styles of music and I write for so many different genres that it actually became a hindrance because I couldn't just pick a lane. Yeah.

So that's kind of why I think Haley's music was all over the place too. Oh, but then I did, we did, we belong also that Pat Benatar song. So it was a mix. It was a mixed bag. I mean, some of my stuff, some covers, um,

But they were pretty flexible with me about it. Everybody worked with me and wanted to... Oh, and then we did the one with Tyler. That's right. When the stars go blue. When the stars go blue. Yeah, that's like the biggest one ever. Yeah, it was a mix. All right, you guys. Next week, the first cut is the deepest. Oh my God, is that the Sheryl Crow episode? Sheryl Crow. Sheryl Crow. Sheryl Crow. Oh my God. We all showed up to work that day. Oh yeah. Woo. Yeah. Episode 16, season one. Guys,

We have done 15 whole episodes together. God damn. I love this. Happy anniversary. Yeah, I love you guys. Turner's permit. Thank you so much to the fans for tuning in with us. This has been a really fun ride and I'm excited we have a long road ahead. See you soon. Bye guys. Bye. Bye.

listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time. Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama, Drama

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Lights, Camera, Cry on Cue! • EP115

Drama Queens

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Lights, Camera, Cry on Cue! • EP115 01:04:00 Share

Drama Queens

Chapters

Shownotes Transcript

PodQuest PodQuest Podcast Discovery Engine

Lights, Camera, Cry on Cue! • EP115