Coming into Our Power • EP210
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Drama, drama queens, drama queens. Hey everybody, happy new year. Hope everybody's doing great. Episode 10 is Don't Take Me For Granted, which is kind of a surprisingly difficult concept to explain to children. I was saying that the other day to Maria, something about being taken for granted, and she was like, what does that mean? I'm like, well, it's like when someone doesn't

you, but they, it's like, I don't know. It's kind of hard to explain. I don't know why I'm talking about this. It aired November 30th, 2004. Cause this is our therapy joy. This is what we do with each other. We're going to work it out.

concerned about his brother's health. Nathan tells Karen who lights up on Lucas about not taking the heart test. Wow, we loved that. Meanwhile, Keith accepts Dan's offer to continue working at the dealership as vice president and Peyton must confront

rumors at school that she is a lesbian, which affects her friendship with Anna while the gap between Nathan and Haley continues to grow. Heavy. Lots of stuff in this one. Each one of us had a really kind of like big episode. You know, the stuff that Sophia had to do with all the Felix stuff and that I was very uncomfortable by the end of the episode because that feeling of being a young woman

having to say yes to something that you don't really want to say yes to because you know the other person really needs to hear it. That feeling of being pleasing, oh, it was so triggering and you handled it so well. And then, Joy, you had your huge episode with Chris and then...

My storyline is probably one of the biggest in the series for me. You know, this is something that we keep coming back to when we meet fans. And so this is an iconic moment for Peyton. Yeah. I was so, I mean, should we just start with that? Do you want to start talking about Peyton? No, let's start with Brooke. Cause we start with the broken windshield in the episode. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Okay. Let's do it in proper order. Yes. Okay. Well, the first, the first thing I have on my many pages of notes is high school fashion. Oh,

Oh, yes. Yes. We need to talk. Oh, yes. Yes. OK. There's plenty of fashion in here. Sophia and I were talking before we started taping. Gus just started back at school. Right. Because he's now vaccinated and he's back at school and his middle school is attached to the high school. And so for the last week, I've been doing pickup. And oh, my God, these children wear sweatpants every day. Sweatshirts, sweatpants.

Those are their cool school outfits. And we're pissed, guys. I'm mad. Because we had to wear tight pants and low rise jeans and halter tops and high heels. Plaid Abercrombie skirts I wore.

Oh, yeah. You had to get ready. You had to get right now. It's like just throw your hair in a low, tight bun and throw some hoop earrings on and go to school like nobody's. You know, I love it now. I don't want anyone to feel objectified. But here's here's my take on it. You get this one little teeny tiny chunk of time in your youth to experiment. And so you need to have a goth year. You need to have a hip hop year. You need to have a tomboy year. Like you need to go through the phases.

the phases. A glam year. Yeah, yeah. You just have to try things out. And frankly, all the mothers in the pickup line are really counting on you to like dress up and not wear a sweatpants. I'm just, it's been totally stressing me out. So for anybody out there listening, like get up at 630 and put your clothes on. Yeah, we like that.

Just like Brooke had to do. Because Brooke did it. Brooke always did it. When I came out in the morning and saw that broken windshield, it also, you know, I guess the idea is a brick got thrown through it, but it looks like somebody took a golf club to that thing multiple times. You got Tiger Woods. That was an aggressive break. It was wrecked. It was wrecked.

Yeah. There's a lot for Brooke in this episode. And a big reveal that Mouth was the one at the end who actually broke her windshield. That didn't totally track for me. I feel like he maybe would have broken Felix's car windshield. It felt like a little misplaced that it was Brooke's. I don't know. What did you guys think about that? You know what I liked about it? I liked how vulnerable he got.

With Lucas walking by the river court. Because he says it was just another party where I was the only one who ended up without someone. And, and what I, I guess the reason I'm glad it was Brooks windshield and not Felix's is it was an honest kind of poking against the way that a lot of men blame women for not being attracted to them. Yeah. And, and we saw mouth own it.

feel bad about it, admit to doing this really inappropriate thing because none of this is Brooke's fault in the first place and try to make it right.

And that I thought was really healthy modeling for kids. Own your shit, man. I appreciate that. Also, and Brooke doesn't want to be with Felix either, Mal. Like, man, you guys should just talk about this. Yeah. Yeah. And when Lucas tells him that and he's like, but I didn't know. You see just that this boy doesn't know where to put his feelings. So he literally throws them toward the person who's hurting his feelings. Girl, did you just make that a metaphor? Did I? Yeah.

I went to college. But then Brooke follows it up with this like lovely interaction with Lucas, which we should definitely dig into because Lucas,

I guess for me, hiding my real feelings has been a journey, you know, since I was in middle school and not wanting to admit to things and to watch you navigate that in a really kind of lovely way. You're trying so hard to be fun and like not admit that there's still an attraction, but it feels really good to be around this person. Yeah. And it ties really well in the episode. The writers did a good job because in the sort of

This episode has a great opening sequence. The teaser's really good with the car,

with what everybody's doing with, with then, you know, Nathan waking up on Lucas's floor, Haley's panic, doesn't know where he is. Turns out Lucas has been hiding Nate for the night. And then Brooke comes in being like, Oh, you're related. Double, double. Ew. If Tudor wife is here, you know, they're teasing each other and that's her default is the joke. And then she kind of drops it and has to say, you know, I, I just thought maybe we could walk to school together. Yeah.

And they start reconnecting and she tells him that she misses talking to him. Yeah. And it's really tender and she's trying to hide it, but there's a sweetness to that that was nice to play.

I've always found that to be the hardest part of any breakup is the friendship that you build in the intimacy of being in a relationship with someone that whenever the relationship ends, it's like romantically we just aren't, this does not work. But I always miss the friendship and the, I mean, if I don't miss the friendship, then I definitely know it was the right person. I'm good. You're done. But there have been a couple of breakups in my life where I was like,

We can't be together, but damn, I really miss the, just the friendship and the talking. And I could totally relate to Brooke in that. Like, can we still just, I miss just, you know, spending time with you and you're a great person and we get along and.

It's nice to have people outside of your typical bubble. You know, like if Brooke has been hanging out with the same cheerleaders and athletes and like the popular kids for the last 10 years, you fall into a rhythm where it's like, what do we talk about? We talk about clothes. We talk about the mall. We talk about this. And so to have that person that comes in from the peripheral that talks to you about real stuff or just about your feelings, or you can just be quiet with like,

Like for all of Lucas's whatever, he does strike me as a person that you could sit in silence with and just like hold space. Yeah. And and sure, it's a valuable energy where I get it. I get why Brooke is like, you're different. And I just like whatever you've got going on here. Yeah. Yeah. It's a sweet kind of tender energy.

Experience and and what strikes me for all three of us is everyone is trying to navigate a new relationship that they don't quite understand.

He's trying to navigate a new relationship with Lucas. Haley's trying to figure out what this thing is with Chris Keller. Is it about music? Is she attracted to this person? It would make sense if she was, he'd be what? Maybe only the second boy she'd ever experienced that with. And, and Peyton's trying to figure out not only what,

This is, does she have a real friendship with Anna or not? But Peyton's trying to navigate a relationship to her own mental health. Yeah. You know, it's, Oh, it's a big moment. I mean that, that moment at the end of the episode where you come to see me and you, you know, you talk about how everything is piling up and you don't want to need help, but you feel so alone. I was like, I was choked up and, and wishing that,

I was really happy to see that on screen and to think about it in 2004. Yeah. And just wishing we'd, we'd been able to, to navigate further into that. But of course it's a drama. So there has to be the device of that's right. When the boy walks out of the bathroom, I was like, honestly,

Stay with the friends. Honestly, like, if this show was happening today, like, Peyton would go to therapy. Peyton would, like, you know, like, work on things in a manner that we can talk about now. But in 2004, the answer to every problem was, who you kissing? You know what I mean? Like, it's always, the solution's always a dude. I don't know. I actually don't know that it's that different nowadays. You think? I mean, I think there is in maybe in more...

or like city environments, there's a little bit more of an openness to go to therapy or to talk about, oh, my therapist, this or that. But I think the majority, at least of America, you know, in smaller towns, you know, they still have a way of doing things that were... Obviously, there's something that's so lovely and charming and wholesome about all that. But I think there's also...

still maybe a stigma around therapy or, you know, struggling with or trying to do something that maybe seems progressive and then you don't want your friends to, to make fun of you or it's for seeing a doctor about your emotions or mental health can, can still be, um, something that is, is looked down on. So I, I, I do love, I don't know where I'm going with this, but I guess I,

I don't know that it's so much different today than it would have been back then. Well, you know, what's interesting is I think you're right in a lot of ways, Joy. Like, I think that, yes, we're in a stage where we might be more open about it, but a lot of people are still scared to admit that they're struggling. And I think that that is okay. I think that

It's important, even when we get to talk about this stuff, to say what we wish the girls we played, the ways we wish they might have been supported. Yeah. It begins to open it for all of us. And, you know, what's really interesting to me, I got to be part of this talk yesterday, and the guy who...

came from the sort of clinical expert side of mental health was saying that so often it's being left alone in your pain that causes trauma. You can experience a traumatic event

But when you're then left alone, when you don't have anyone to tell your story to, when you don't get those words out of your body, that is what sinks the trauma into you because you don't process it. So true. You guys are going to make me cry. It's so true. Even a friend. I mean, if you think therapy is bougie, if you look at therapy and it's like, oh, it's bougie to go see a therapist. Oh, you got a therapist. You know, my lucky you. Yeah.

okay, fine. But find a friend, find someone that you can get it out of your body. And that's why I love that scene between us so much because Peyton reached out to her safe container. Yeah. And you see both of these girls feeling alone. And because of the TV writer drama, Felix coming out of the bathroom moment, Peyton leaves, but then you see Brooke

While Felix is talking to her, also feeling alone. Yeah. Yeah. And these kids are just trying to figure out where to either express their pain or how to medicate with it. And Brooke medicates with a boy. Yeah. Yeah. And Peyton is about to medicate in a very bad way. And then, by the way, who shows up but a boy, but it's Jake Jagielski and we love it. Yeah, that's a different boy. We love that moment. Guys. I was so thrilled.

But wait, wait, we have to go back. We have to go back. Let's go in order. We have to go in order. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Let's go in order because I'm very excited to talk about this Peyton storyline. But I do want to address one thing, which is the Felix friends with benefits blowing up in everyone's face. Yeah. My topic for pondering, which we don't have to spend too much time on it, but does friends with benefits ever really work?

I feel like somebody always loses an eye. Wait, have either of you like done, like, okay, have you done this? Yes.

I'm too emotional. If I'm like with someone, I have to be in love. Yeah. I'm not. I can't. Y'all, I'm reading my journal from high school because I'm working on my next book. And so I just pulled out like all my journals. Oh, no, I had a great time. Like it was awesome because because if you are up front in the beginning, right, and you maintain that boundary, like you, you absolutely like keep you can't ignore it. You can't say it once and then.

But you're not combative about it like Brooke is. Brooke is like, don't even look at me in the face. Don't touch me. Like, you just sit there and take it. Brooke's like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman. No kissing on the mouth. No kissing on the mouth. No, I mean, there were kids that I had grown up with since kindergarten who we kissed, like, senior year in high school. And, like, we all knew we were going other places. But it was so fun and just like, oh, my God, you turned into a hot dude. Like, congratulations. Woo-hoo!

I'm so proud of you. I think if there's... If the friendship is real first, like if Brooke and Felix had been actually friends first and built off of that and then like kissed each other sometimes, fine. But to meet a brand new person and be like, we're going to be friends and we're going to kiss and it's never going to go further than that, that's bullshit. The friendship has to be real first. Friends, we all...

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But this is exactly what we were talking about a couple episodes ago. It's like sometimes, like you said, you might have grown up with someone, Hillary, and then at 17, you're like, oh my God, my friend from childhood turned into this hot guy. Look at that jaw. You know, you might in a stage of your development say, and I know I said this in the last episode, but I'll repeat it. You might go, well, I know I love you. Am I maybe a little in love with you?

And you could give it a try and then you're either going to be together or you're going to go, no, we're actually just friends. This was cute. You're super attractive. Like, let's go back to being buddies and go get a beer. Like that, if you are honest, yes, I do get that. But I guess what I couldn't imagine is being in a situation like that, that just goes on and on and on and on and on. Yeah. Yeah.

Somebody falls in love. At some point, it starts to make you acutely aware of the fact that the other person is really only interested in you for one thing or even two things, friendship and sex, but they don't want the actual intimacy of relationship.

And you start to feel like, like what, but what's, is there something wrong with me? What's the one thing that's holding you back? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because everybody does want to be seen and loved for who they are in all the good and all the bad. I mean, that's fundamentally what we're all looking for. So if you've got somebody who will take you for all the good, but when the bad stuff shows up, they're like, eh, listen, I really only wanted this for, for convenience and comfort. Yeah.

then eventually you're just going to start feeling. You know, I always loved the exact opposite, especially when we were in our early twenties. Like,

the dudes that were there for all the shit and really loved it when you were messy and they'd be like, baby, I'll kiss you. But then when you were up, they just like disappeared or went on tour or like, you know. Well, because they were intimidated. They were like, oh, I know how to fix this wounded bird, but when she's succeeding, what is it I could do for her? Well, talk about fixing wounded birds. That's Lucas in this episode, like wandering around.

Looking for problems to solve. I mean, you nailed it, Hillary. God, I was so proud of Peyton in that moment. Being like, no, you're not my friend. You don't just get to walk in here. You really stood up. And Hillary, God, you played the scene so beautifully because you want a friend and you're about to open up. And then when he sees the drawing of Jake and asks you the question, your anger at him.

You're guessing because of my art, you don't actually know anything about what's going on in my life. Oh, it was such a good moment. Yeah. And like Peyton didn't know that he'd walked to school with Brooke that morning or brought her home the night before. And like, but she knows there's enough damage there. Like, you know what? This is not real. This is phony. Like, yeah, everyone else on the quad saw me crying. Why are you here?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Can we talk about the epic moment? I, I will never recover from how much I love this storyline for you and Daniela Alonso because she's so good. She's great.

But the poem that you read to her, the thing on, you know, the little, the little, the mini record. Well, it's, it's song lyrics that are based on this poem that kind of was popularized in the 1950s. And it's actually at the Holocaust Museum because the original words are,

Or first they came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak out because I was not a Jew. And then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for me.

And so those lyrics being popularized and put into music geared towards a younger generation where we could see ourselves in like the junkies and the prostitutes and the people who have been marginalized. And it's like, babe, you have to speak up. Yes. I think our creators knew that that was subject matter. That was very important to me. Mm hmm.

Because in the early 2000s, we didn't talk about bisexuality. We didn't talk about sexuality ever because the assumption was if you're a girl, you're a straight girl and you like boys. And that's it. And I had done an interview with Angelina Jolie on TRL.

like season one because I'd flown back from while we were filming to go back and do it. And I asked her about this movie Foxfire that she did where she played either a bisexual or a lesbian teenager. And I told her it meant a lot to me. And I remember like people around me being like, are you outing yourself? Like, what are you doing? Really? Because I talked about kissing girls in high school. It wasn't.

Oh, yeah. And everybody was so everything had to be labeled and in a box. So it was like, if you're talking about that, then you must be making a statement. And I was putting my career in jeopardy by even hinting at it. And so our our bosses really did take a lot of stuff from our real life and apply them to the show because I think they thought it would help us tap into it. But.

I was Peyton in high school, you know, when Boys Don't Cry came out. Oh, my God. I'd been waiting for that movie for like a year. And I was obsessed with it. I loved that movie. Gosh. I just I loved the moment.

Because it was something, you know, as you share your experience, standing up for our community was really important to us. Yeah. You know, as artists, as people who, the arts have often been a safe haven for queer people. Yeah. And a place where we build real community.

community of solidarity. And I remember when we got this script, I remember the punk rock poem version of the first poem that is, as you said, famously at the Holocaust Museum. And I remember, God, even now just talking about it, I have chills and I have chills when I watched you read it in the episode. When you made her read it, it

it did feel like someone was not just giving us a history lesson, but telling us how history was ours, telling us how we could change it by, by giving us the punk rock anthem in the early aughts. It was like, you guys, it's your fight. Now it was our fight in this generation. And now this version, this is, this is your generation's fight. And I, I just, I,

Oh, it like, it, it makes me want to cry. Like that you in this episode were able to speak for so many people and say, I'm not going to be quiet. I'm not going to roll over and let someone be harmed. You know, whether it is you or it is a friend or it is a classmate. And it was such an important lesson and enjoy. You said it while we watched it.

watching Peyton use her art as protest was fucking sick. It was so sick. That's what inspired me. I mean, I was like, yes, this is what art is for, inspiring. Whether it's encouraging you, whether it's healing you, or whether it's motivating you, it is meant to inspire. And

Um, I loved seeing that, that, that defiance, the against the structure and the rules and, um, against principal Turner against principal. He was so lovely by the way. Like what a good dude. I love that guy. I love that guy. But it's such a, it's like, I, I,

I would love to have, I mean, how cool would it be to see a teacher who understands that? Because you're in a school because school is supposed to be a real education. This is not just about learning what two plus two is and what year the Declaration of Independence was signed. Like we're supposed to be learning how to think for ourselves, not what to think.

So I love that Peyton set such a great example for that. And man, when you walked in, when I saw you with your spray paint can, I was like, I know what she's doing. And you walk in the hallway with that shirt on. And I was like, this is what, if I was a mom, if I was a mom. If I was a mom.

Mom of a teenager. Hilarious. But this, if Maria was in this situation, this is what I would want her to do as a mom to see a young girl taking charge of somebody trying to bully, oppress her, you know, whether it was true or not, doesn't matter. It was not the point at all. It was a harmful slur. It was intended to be bullying and maligning. And she just took the power right back. And, um,

stood up for herself and stood up for a bunch of other people. And I just was, and then at the end when he was like, you lose the shirt or get suspended. She's like, yep. Well, here's the next level. Let me tell you how much I would have supported my daughter in that 100,000%. I've been like, yeah, baby, come on home. No problem. But bring it.

Yeah. It was a trigger. You know, those rumors existed about me growing up. My best friend and I, everyone had a different story. And we were voted best friends senior year in superlatives. And we held up signs that said not lovers with arrows pointing to each other and like the end of the year. And it's cute. You know, it was like a thing that I had to be able to navigate and laugh off. And so I took this episode very, very seriously. I was very seriously.

And really scared about this episode because I didn't know if I was being called out or if there was a kid at home who was going to hear Peyton say, I'm not gay and get their feelings hurt that she was denying it. Like there was, it just felt like so much responsibility and I really, really didn't want to screw it up.

And even like a month ago, I got a DM from a guy who was like, I came out because of this storyline. Like you guys gave me the tools to be able to handle coming out in a small town. And those those kinds of things mean a lot to me. I was really mad that Peyton was taking her shirt off. Like when we talk about that, what was frustrating for you about that? So, look, we'd fought the whole first season to not take our clothes off, hooking up with dudes.

And our bosses understood that if it was tied to something I was passionate about politically, you know, like socially, chances are I would probably do it. And so, you know, it's not like Peyton had it on a jacket that she could take off. It's not like Peyton had it on her backpack or like something. But she wouldn't have gotten suspended for taking the jacket off. I mean, it had to be a statement. Taking the shirt off also felt like they were...

building towards a moment of a little bit of eroticism where it was like, oh, we're going to see Peyton in her bra. Like Hillary's never done anything in her bra before. This will be the thing that gets her in her bra. And so I went into the fitting with my, this is how like much of a hoarder I am. I had my real like thin triangle top bra from 10th grade. Like that was like my training bra.

And it's not sexy. It's not padded. It's not a push-up bra. It was ratty. It was like, you know, when like fabric gets all pilled and stuff. Yeah. It was a gross, ratty bra. Nothing sexy about it. Oh, I loved it. Oh, that's nice. But it was just like a Walmart bra from Sterling, Virginia that I'd had in the back of my drawer forever. And I also didn't want to look like I... You know, a lot of times when we have to get naked and you're like, oh, I'm going to do sit-ups or I'm, you know, like I'm going to like prep for it. I also didn't want girls to see...

a body that was prepped for it, if that makes sense. And so I went out the night before with my boyfriend to Outback Steakhouse and got a Bloomin' Onion and got like a big, you know, like I just really, I didn't want to feed into any of the, I'm in a bra of it all because that wasn't the point. I needed it to be unsexy. I needed it to be sad and vulnerable. And, you know, I'm slouching as I walk away. Like it's just,

I love you, Hillary. I love your heart. The posture of it was really important. And I didn't ever want anyone to make it perverted. Because it... Yeah. I took it so seriously. If it had felt sexy, like if she'd been in an outfit, it wouldn't have had the same impact. It felt...

Exactly that unprepared for surprising. It was it was a split second decision made in a moment. It's like, you know, as adults, we joke like, oh, it's laundry day. I'm wearing my ugliest underwear. Like you you want that kind of.

Rawness, not like some chic, lacy bralette. That was not the point. And you nailed all the stuff that we've been shopping for in the lingerie store for the first two seasons. We're there every five minutes. You nailed it because the the simpleness of it allowed for the protests to be centered. Yeah. Yeah.

It wasn't about your body. It wasn't about sexualizing you. And I don't think it came off that way. I mean, I don't know how you still feel looking back and watching it if you still feel like it was a group of writers trying to make you be naked. Does it feel better now? It may have even been intended to be, but I didn't, to me as a viewer, it did not come across that way. How do you feel about it? I see what it means to other people and there's value in that for me. Oh, I get like, I just didn't want to fuck it up.

Yeah. You didn't. You did it so beautifully. Well, it's fun now. Like, it was kind of jarring. The last convention we went to, kids showed up with spray-painted shirts that said dick on it. And, like, we know that's, like, a bad word, guys. You can't. Like, we don't say that. And so I – but they were taking ownership of it, which I loved. Oh, I fucking loved it for them. But I can't walk around with that shirt on.

No. It's one of those things where it's like... It was a best case scenario. The bra situation was the best case scenario. I think just... That's what... I read a lot of scripts. I'm sure we all have read scripts where you're just like, of course, and now the girl gets naked or like, oh, of course, and now she's in her bra and why is she in her bra in this scene? There's no reason for that. But there are...

I mean, are we are artists. So are you wholly an artist or not? And for me as an artist, my entire body is to be used for art in the correct context. So and that's fine. Look, some people want to only be, you know, want to reserve their bodies for just their private life and, and they only, you know, use a particular portion of them for, for art. And that's totally fine. Not everybody's supposed to do the same thing, but yeah.

As someone who feels like totally embodied as an artist, I totally relate to that as just your body is your body. It's part of your artistic expression. And it didn't come across to me as sexualized at all. It felt like it was a very specific choice. It was a shocking choice, but not titillating or sensationalized. Well, there was no titillating with...

The fight was always in the fitting. You know what I mean? Like, had we been on a different show that had this scene, it would have been art and it would have been safe. But because we had already been fighting for like a year and a half for these things, it was just like, is this just a different angle for the same end result?

Because it's pushing on the bruise next to the cut. So you're kind of like, what is this? What is this? Even if it isn't meant to be that, when you've experienced the same thing with the people who treat you.

Treating you like you're their property, it gets triggering. But probably because of all those fights and all the fights you won and the times when you didn't end up that way, that's why this paid off so much. Because it wasn't just like, oh, Peyton's in her bra again. Peyton's never in her bra. All those fights were leading up to this moment, you know? Yes. So good on you. Hey, thanks. Daniela really sold this because...

in a different actress's hands, this girl that's kind of flip-flopping between Lucas and maybe Peyton or like, you know, like all this kind of like weirdness and ambiguity would have been messy. But because she is so slow and methodical about the way she gives out information and she's so kind of vulnerable,

you feel for this little animal you're like oh my god like honey what what happened to you that you can't that you're that you feel like you have to pretend um and i love that lucas is like giving her this speech where he's like he's like hey man this isn't gonna work out and she's like okay he's like i have feelings for someone and she's like me too yeah

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To Peyton's last scene with with Brooke, like to get into that room and to come and ask for help. But that's to say she doesn't want to ask for help. That was. But that those are words that I wish I could use as a grown up. I think when you are a person who the world has expectations for you, like, oh, you handle stress so well.

Having to admit at any point, like, oh, hey, like, no, I don't, is hard. And so Brooke's probably been applauded by her parents, like, oh, you're so responsible and mature and you can live by yourself. And Haley's been told by her parents, like, honey, you can go get married. Like, you've always been a good decision maker. And Peyton's been told by her dad, like, no, you're good. You can handle this. Mm-hmm.

it's not hard to ask for help if you're a person who's always had a support network. It's hard to ask for help when you're on a pedestal and everyone expects you to continue to function at a high level. She calls her dad, which is a big deal, and he doesn't pick up. And so she's reaching out for help in these places where every kid should be able to find it. But for me, like the Brooke and Peyton of it all,

I don't know. I just think I loved that scene so much because I think we were probably experiencing that in real life, like not having a place to put things down. Because especially at that age, who could we talk to? Our friends from home were still in college. They didn't know what our world looked like. They couldn't understand what it's like to have a mortgage or to deal with commissions with your managers and having to answer phone calls and tone meetings and like,

There wasn't a language that you could share with your regular support network. So we were living that in real life while our characters were also living that. Just like, where do I put this down? Yeah. Yeah. I love how tender you were in your little twin bed. Just like, honey, come here. Stay. It would have been such a fun night if Felix wasn't there. It would have been so great. I know. Oh, Felix. Yeah.

And you see, I just, I don't know the parallel of those two. Peyton feeling so alone and Brooke saying, you always have me. And even on the quad saying this, all those girls are jealous. You look better than them. Like she's just coming out with the perfect best friend for this. She's such a mama bear with her best friend. But in the end scene,

You realize that to Brooke, nobody else exists in that moment. She's like, I'm here. We're doing it. Everything's going to be okay. And then this guy walks out and she has to confront her own way of trying to feel better because she has nobody in her home who's supporting her either. And she's not going to pile it on Peyton right now because Peyton's struggling. And you just realize these kids, they just have no idea what to do with their pain.

We need a safe word. It's like the gift of the magi, you know, where each person is giving up the thing that is important to them to be there for the other person. Yeah. It's so easy for Brooke to be there for Peyton and for Peyton to be there for Anna. Like sometimes when you're in the depths of your own shit, it makes it really easy for you to kind of pivot and focus on someone else's problem. It's helpful, actually. Yeah. Well, until you're like, oh, but now I'm just like faking it with my friend.

Oh, yeah, because I've been pushing my own thing away for so long. So we need like a friend safe word where if like we all say the same word, we know that we're all in the cauldron and we're all bubbling. Everyone should have a friend safe word so that you don't even necessarily have to discuss it. But, you know, like I've got a thing. You've got a thing. Cool. Let's just like drink smoothies.

Well, speaking of mama bear energy a little bit here, let's pivot to Karen, who I was just saying this was like the ultimate Irish family background of Moira coming out. I just loved it so much because we've never seen her in Angry before. No. Well, maybe at Dan once. But yeah, that's like two seconds. She tore it.

and she went after his friends. Oh my gosh. Don't mess with Karen y'all. Oh, when the, when the boys on the river court are like, nah, we talked to your mom. Like they're scared. That was the best. But her yelling at him and, and just reminding him that he is her child and he lives under her roof and he is a teenager and she will make him get a test. I was like, Oh, she just keeps punching. It was phenomenal. Oh, so good.

Well, and Joy, to your point, like the payoff, she's always been sweet. She's always been gentle. She's always been understanding. And so for a year and a half, for that to be her tone, and then all of a sudden, like, oh, yeah, the hell hath no fury, like a mother lied to. That's it. A mother who was lied to because and her son's life is at risk. There's no messing around. For basketball?

Yeah. It's so insane. No, not okay. Last little thing on the docket here is my sweater. No, I'm kidding. The last thing on the docket is Dan. We should talk about that sweater. This is an episode about us all kind of coming into our power in different ways because you, you know, we meet Haley wearing all sorts of dorky shit. And then as Dan,

Haley is coming into her music, coming into her personhood and like making these like big decisions for herself. You also are coming in with like, this is how I want to look. This is how I want to present my character. You bought that sweater. Yeah, I found that sweater. I bought it and brought it in. It was so cute. I love it. I have visceral memories like I can feel it and smell it. I loved that sweater. Where did you get it from?

I don't know. I think it was like J. Crew or something. Really? Yeah, it was probably. I was going to guess Island Passage. The shopping in Wilmington wasn't extraordinary. We had a few great shops, but yeah, but I agree. And Haley really was trying to figure out how to come into her own in this episode. I mean, it was so interesting to watch a young couple fight, knowing that there is a solution, but that's a big challenge.

bite to take out of life. I married you. I want to be with you forever. I want us to do everything in partnership. And yet, this is part of me. I can't say no to this massive part of me just because you're uncomfortable. And yet, I want to honor your feelings. I want to respect where you're at. I want to make space for you and your own insecurities because you're human too. And

That's a big thing. How do you deal with that as a couple? I mean, I know grownup couples that struggle with that big time. Totally. Big time. So to learn that as a teen, that's not easy. Really hard. And something I love about watching the dynamic between the two of you, you as Haley, you're trying to take ownership of your dreams and desires and say, it's not about that. This is about my music. And then you see James saying,

You see on his face, Nathan seeing through Chris's bullshit. Yeah. And knowing Chris is a threat. And he's right. Even if Haley doesn't know, Nathan knows. And so interestingly, they're both right. Yeah. And that's hard. There's the rub. It's so good. That's the rub. Yep. She doesn't understand. But even, but here's the weird part is that even when she does finally understand Nathan was right, Chris is after me.

But there's still an opportunity for me here. Am I willing to get on the bus and still pursue the opportunity that came through this person that had an alternative agenda? Yeah.

Ooh. Gosh. Is it? And is she attracted to him? That's it. Is it an alternative agenda or is it both? Can he both? Can Chris Keller both like her music and her talent and want to cultivate that and be a part of it and be attracted to her? Or do you really think it's just like a bait and switch? Ooh.

I don't think it's a bait and switch. I think he, I think it is both. It's a full package. The hard part. It's that's the hard part. And I bet for her, it's easier to see both because she says, okay, it really sucks that he lied. He is hitting on me. Gross. But I love Nathan. I'm in control. Nathan. I can do both.

And, you know, is she throwing herself into the lion's den a little bit? It's a really juicy place to be. I like it so much. I love it so much. Oh, my gosh, guys. We are so deep on this episode. This was a big one. I love this episode. This honestly might be my favorite episode so far. Really? I agree. And we haven't even gotten to what might be the most explosive thing that happened this week, which is Chris Kemp.

Chris Keller kissing Haley. We screamed. Oh my gosh. And she doesn't run away. She doesn't run away. She stayed in the kiss. Oh man, guys, we've got a lot to talk about and we're out of time. So surprise, surprise. Episode 10 is going to be a two-parter. We will see you back here next week and we will have who's coming. What a dream boat.

Chris Keller himself is coming on the episode. We'll see you back here for part two. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at DramaQueensOTH. Or email us at DramaQueens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're school drama girl drama about them high school queens. Pride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. DramaQueens. DramaQueens. You can see those more.

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Boy, I've spent definitely a significant amount of time in therapy in my life. And I think there's just so many layers to life that can be hard to navigate. And having somebody there to just talk through things really makes the days easier sometimes. It's a simple truth. No matter who you are, mental health challenges can affect you. And how you manage them can make all the difference.

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