A Formal Affair • EP209
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Fashion, but you're a tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens. Somebody else better bring us in. That's exactly how we're starting the episode. Friends, join us.

Please give us the intro in your super sexy laryngitis voice. The trick is to keep breathing. Oh, yes. Air date November 16th, 2004. Although Lucas takes Anna as his date to the Tree Hill High formal, he finds himself with Brooke at the end of the night. Meanwhile, Hailey's musical obligations to Chris cause her to arrive late at the formal, which angers Nathan.

And Peyton finds herself struggling with the growing temptation to turn to, dun, dun, dun, drugs. Drugs. Drugs. Say no to drugs, kids. Damn. Hugs, not drugs. Joy, I mean, look, I like it. I'm into it. It was better yesterday. It was just a sexy radio voice. Now I just sound like I'm

sound like I've been smoking my whole life. Yeah, right? That's what people always ask me. They're like, wow, you must smoke a lot. And I'm like, no, but thank you so much. No, you've got the sexy radio voice going on, Sophia. It works for you. It

Does it help if I slow it down a little bit and talk like this? Oh, yeah. I'll be your hyper lap dog. Hey, guys, this episode was crazy. Hot. This episode was not. Wait, can you believe that we had back-to-back slumber party episode and formal episode in my brain? I thought, like, it spanned a whole season. Me too. I loved it. I loved it. It's like two major occurrences. I can't believe we got so lucky to have them two weeks in a row. Um...

I think we all said this during the watching of the episode. We all have memories of shooting this episode. Yeah.

Joy was, but Joy was like, I didn't go to the dance. I know for sure. I was like, I've never been crowned prom queen in my life. I feel like I would remember if that happened in my life. No, you were. 100% were. I can't believe you forgot that. I feel like though, because the moment was so robbed of joy because of the conflict between you guys, like maybe that's why it didn't resonate. It must be.

And it was a crane shot. It was like they just pulled out the whole time. It was so rushed. Yeah, it was super rushed. And maybe it was like one of those things that was at the end of the night. I'm sure it was actually at the end of the night, the last shot of the day, because with the confetti, it would have taken way too much to clean up. So I bet actually...

I probably came in for like an hour at the end of the day, they had to wrap and it was like, get this shot with joy walking in. I had to go straight up to the stage. All right. Crane shot one camera on the ground, go. And then, you know, boom, we shot out of the can and go home. But they brought you in at four in the afternoon and probably shot you at like four in the morning. You sat in that trailer all day long. Like knitting at base camp. I bet I was.

This was a fun episode for us because anytime we all got to be together, you've heard us say this so many times, like it just made it special. It felt like we were all the real slumber party together. And we got to dress up, which was nice from the, you know, I liked my Devo shirt in this episode. I loved your dress. How sentimental. You looked like a 1950s beauty queen.

I love you guys. I loved it. The story with this dress is that they didn't, they couldn't get like copies of it. So anytime you have to do stunt work or do a gag, like, oh, I don't know, spilling a whole cup of something on a dress, you're supposed to have multiples. And because this was a real vintage dress, there was no way to get multiples of it. And so our director, John Asher,

didn't want an extra to be the person that spilled the drink on me because they're like, we're not going to trust some like nervous kid who's a background actor. Let's just dress up one of our crew members and have them be the one that spills on her. And so my brother was a production assistant on the show. And a baby.

Baby baby child. He's got a big like gray beard now. All the Burtons grow gray very early. And so they made Billy put on a tuxedo and act. He might have even gotten a SAG award.

card for this because he had a line. Really? Oh, because he said sorry, right? He said sorry. I think he was trying to get like health insurance. And so he was the one that spilled the drink all over me. And when you have to be upset about something, the last thing you want is for your little brother to be the punk ass like spilling stuff on you. It takes you right out of the moment. You're like, dude, don't get up. Well, you did a great job.

Yeah, he did a good job. It was weird seeing it. I'd forgotten about that part. It's nice to talk about your performance in this episode, Hillary. It was a really nice arc, you know, from starting out happy and giddy. And, you know, you really kept track of because we shoot these all out of order.

And all the scenes are shot at different times. So you might have to be happy and joking around one minute. And then the next scene is you in the bathroom with the cocaine and the CD. And that's like serious weeping stuff. So, you know, you did a really great job tracking where Peyton was with the arc of all of it. And that's also a lot to keep track of when you're doing block shooting in a big room.

on a big stage where you're like in the formal where it was, I'm sure that was block shot all, all, um, can somebody, I don't want to talk too much. Can somebody explain what block shooting is?

Yeah, Joy's voice is dying. So if you explain block shooting, you're the director. You two directed. I'm just a silly little actor. I'm just an actress and a powerhouse producer. Block shooting, you know, means, and Joy's bringing up a great point for our friends at home, when you're in a huge room like the one where the formal was set...

to shoot coverage, meaning if two people are facing each other, like Joy, let's say it's you and I. Brooke and Peyton are standing looking at each other. It means they shoot over Brooke's shoulder. I'm literally using all of our names. Haley, Brooke and Haley

It means they would, they would shoot over me as Brooke over my back to joy. And then they would shoot over joy's back over her shoulder to me. And then if there's a two shot, we're both 50, 50 in the frame looking at each other and the cameras. So it actually means you're like pinging around the set over and over. So in a lot of those big, big rooms, when there were big, big scenes and so many of us actors, they would block shoot. So they would shoot over,

five scenes in one direction, like the direction looking at Haley,

And whoever else was facing that way for all the scenes. Yeah. Any other scene where like somebody would be maybe having the stage behind them. So any scene, if Brooke and Felix are talking or Brooke and mouth are talking, if mouth is standing in a position, if anyone is standing in a position in any part of that room where the stage is behind them from a certain corner, then they just rotate all the actors through the different scenes and everybody just steps on their mark and the camera has to only move minimally. Yeah.

Yeah, so they would shoot, let's say there were five scenes that day. They'd shoot out scene number one, looking at the stage completely in all the different sizes, but they wouldn't have to move the lights because that's a big deal when you do the lighting setups. And then they'd shoot scene five and then they'd shoot scene 19 and then they'd shoot scene 21. And then they'd go to the next setup and you'd start over at scene one. So scene one, scene five, scene 19. And so it's a little schizophrenic, like mentally, where you're like, what's happening? What are we doing? Yeah.

But you do this over and over and over again all day. And so that's part of the reason when Joy's referencing, you know, the ability to really track the arc. You're essentially taking your character on a roller coaster, but it's not continuous. So you have to be able to go to the bottom and then the top and then the middle and then the end and back to the beginning in a manner that's very fluid.

And so on a day like we're referencing for Hillary doing this arc for Peyton, you're doing the fun stuff where we're getting ready in your room and then you're moving directly into crying because you miss your mom and you don't know what's going on with the temptation all in one day. And so you have to really be able to track your arc. And it's not easy, especially when you're a kid.

Well, we were kids and also we referenced a couple episodes ago, the confessional, the dare night. That was really the start of all the visiting directors would watch the previous episodes. Right. And then they'd be like, I need that moment in my episode. And so I felt like I had to have these like Peyton breakdowns in everyone's episode, even when they weren't necessarily like natural episodes.

This one was, you know, like I felt what Peyton was feeling. Like I felt sad and I liked that they let me get really messy for it. I don't like when people try to stay pretty while they are falling apart. Yeah. That just kind of like you see it a lot and sort of like.

TV shows where it's like, oh, no, the sky is falling, but my extensions look amazing. This lash strip is not going anywhere. Yeah, I mean, and I think that the way that we looked on our show was very different than the stylized way a lot of young women look on teen dramas today, where, like, they have to have the perfect body and they have to have, like, you know,

good posture and no cellulite. And you know, like all these things, his body is a disaster. I'm like, I'm like, no, that's not true. No, but it is. I've Peyton's got acne and a really bad dye job. And my body is not what you would see in a magazine. And I like that. And I think I, I,

I was insecure about it while we were filming this stuff. And that was something that I put in the back of my mind. Like, no, you look like a real messed up teenager. Like no one looks great during their teenage years. That's when you experiment with stuff. Probably part of the other thing, one of the things that made our show so relatable at that time when a lot of the other teen dramas were

There wasn't a lot of that realism. It was so heightened and stylized, you know? Yeah. No, it was very, very real for me. I'm just like, oh, that's messy. Okay, let's do it. What about that scene in the bathroom? Was that, because that was real crying. That was intense. Yeah. You want to talk about it? I remember filming it and I remember just being like,

Show me what the shot is. Show me how much room I have to move around and then let me go. Like, just leave me alone because, you know, there was certainly stuff I was upset about. And.

feeling like a failure in a space where all your other friends seem to be thriving is not a good feeling. And I definitely felt a lot of that season two. Um, I, I didn't like, I knew what my role was in season one, right? It was like, Oh, you're Peyton. You're the girl between the two brothers. And then in season two, there's just kind of like a vagueness about what Peyton is into or doing. And, um,

And so I felt that. I felt that thing that she was feeling, like being on the outside. So that scene with Moira, I mean, was probably... That was the harder scene to shoot. Because not falling apart is harder than falling apart. You know what I mean? Especially when someone...

gives you the opportunity to fall apart and you feel it coming and you know you have to hold it in. Yeah, like the wave is going to crash. Oh, God. And the way Moira looks at you and like holds you, I was choked up. Like, we're not in the scene and I'm sitting there being like, oh, God, this really, this is intense. Like...

But it's beautiful to watch you because you could see the way the two of you were connecting, that it was all right there. And it made so much, it made it feel so poignant then.

you get the drinks spilled on you. And that's what breaks, you know, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Like, it's beautiful. The setup is beautiful. Well, they wrote it well. This was a well-crafted episode because all of us got those moments. Because Joy, your scene where you're, you know, you've got the lone tear coming down your face and you're just like, this is so f***ed up.

was so beautiful like so beautiful they really gave all of us and Sophia you asking Lucas like the whole line about bad guys lie to get in your bed and good guys lie to get in your heart like so let's I want to get into everybody's stuff Joy let's go back

and do the Haley of it all before we lose your voice entirely. Before you're talked out. Guys, you know what was really hard? It was really hard ordering coffee this morning behind a plastic divider and a mask with no voice. Yeah.

I was like miming to the lady and the espresso machine is going behind her and everybody's talking in the coffee shop. And I just was like, I just started like, can I write it down? I started miming. Can I write it? So she handed me a piece of paper so I could write down my order. Anyway, it's beside the point. Yeah, I...

I wasn't here for the last Drama Queens episode, so I know there was a lot of Hayley singing in that one, which I watched back and I'm horrified at the sync. Why? Because the sync was off and I was pitchy and I just wish I had known that I had been a little pitchy because I would have fixed it. It was just so annoying that they, you know, like, I'm a good singer. I'm annoying. Yeah.

Don't you feel like it's frustrating when you're not in control of the edit? It's like, I can tell you which of my performances was better.

Yeah. But you guys picked the wrong one. Or like when you, if you try and do a joke, but whoever's editing doesn't understand comedic timing and then you just look like an idiot saying a line a weird way. And then you look like you're not funny. It's so embarrassing. Oh my God. But Joy, can I say something? Because watching the last episode, we were obviously gushing and freaking out because when the stars go blue, it's such a moment. Yeah. In our show. And so Hillary and I were like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And,

I noticed, cause I've literally heard you sing that song 6,000 times. I heard, I heard you the first, you know, pass when Haley's in the booth. And I was like, God, joy is so smart because she changed her key just a little. So Tyler would have a reason to come in and tell her she hadn't hit it yet. And then in the next pass, you're in a different tone. And I was like, I was like, Oh, it's just like, it's a vocal sound.

that not a lot of people have. So I took that as a viewer who knows you like my own family as a choice you made that I thought was so smart. Oh, thanks. That was a choice because that was an octave. So I started in the higher octave. I was like, no, you did that on,

purpose. I know you did. But when you hear us singing together, if you go back and listen, which you won't because you don't have time, but for our listeners, if you go back and listen, when you hear us singing together, first of all, I'm a little pitchy at times and you can tell. And then also the sync is out of whack. So the sync of the music is off. The music doesn't match the words you guys

are singing. Yeah. So that's, that makes us sound like we're off key too. It looked like you were finding it. Like it looked like you were doing the work in the room and finding it. Like it didn't read that you can't sing. Like it was, well, that's good. Well, at least now I feel like coming back to this episode, I felt like we had improved and it sounded a lot better to me in this episode. So that was kind of cool. Um,

And so fun to work with Tyler again and to really see our banter come to life because that was the first time- Your chemistry is so good. That Haley and Chris were alone together and just got to bounce back and forth off each other. And it was fun. It was, what I thought was interesting too is Haley's always been such, we've always talked about this, that she had a strong backbone and she was always-

She never caved to peer pressure. She was always willing to stand up for whatever it was that was important to her. And it's interesting that Chris can sort of do this little manipulation thing on her. But because I guess because the music means so much to her, it's like the one thing she can't resist. Yeah. Like, oh, I guess it's interesting. It was a new time. He's a gatekeeper. Right. And I think it makes sense because Chris,

Whether, look, whether it's some of the stuff we've shared with each other, some of the things our fans have shared with us in reliving this show, things that I know other friends have gone through when, when,

when someone's not exactly hitting on you or didn't really cross a line or when it's really ambiguous and your work and your dreams are involved or, you know, your future plans or whatever, you can kind of, when you're not truly uncomfortable, you can make an excuse for, well, I just don't know this person or their humor that well yet. You know, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt. And I never want to be the kind of person

who doesn't give someone the benefit of the doubt. I want to lead with that kind of optimism, but with characters like Chris Keller, it'll bite you in the ass. And so I think watching Haley, especially as a 16-year-old, trying to navigate, like, is this guy just weird and, like, sticky and kind of annoying? Yeah.

Or is he someone with malintent? And like, we don't know. It doesn't seem like he is. I mean, that's the kind of thing about Tyler. He's so lovable that anything, any shmarmy thing, sticky thing that he says, sticky shmarmy thing, it comes off. He comes off as like the lovable jerk.

It's not like Felix or like Dan where there's just clearly disturbed problems there. Right. No, he's different. Yeah. And Tyler being so lovable informs Chris in a really interesting way. Yeah, for sure. Friends, we all...

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I think it's no secret to listeners of our podcast that we all love Squarespace over here because our lives are pretty chronically online. And I'm going to tell you, I needed a website and had absolutely no idea how to do it. And Squarespace made it really, really easy for me. And I sort of feel like if, you know, my all over the place creative brain can manage to actually make a real website all by my lonesome, anybody can do it. Wouldn't you say? Yeah.

Listen, I wouldn't sell yourself short, but it is helpful to know that if you could do it starting from scratch, then maybe there's hope for me when I finally decide to build my own website. I can't wait.

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The more you love, the more you'll find. From the new to the pre-loved and waiting to be loved. The timeless classics to the one of ones and everything in between. Yeah, eBay. It's the place for new, pre-loved, vintage, and rare fashion. eBay. Things people love. I also want to talk about, and it doesn't have anything to do with your singing, but that outfit combo of the pale yellow dress. Oh my God. And the red lips and the red jewels and the red nails. It's fun. It's fun.

I loved it. Also hilarious that Haley was like rushing out the door, but she had time to do her nails and her hair. And her hair, yeah.

They make press-on nails. Those things exist. It's true. You know what else I really loved thinking about our outfits? I remember, I don't know why we were all so into brooches then, but I remember finding the little brooch that we sewed into Brooke's dress because it was just like a blue dress. And then I remember, you know, you guys were trying so hard to figure out what to put with this vintage dress that was Peyton's mom's.

And somewhere in like the back of my brain, two synapses connected. And I was like, I have a brooch that's that color. The brooch! The brooch that was in your hair! Was that your personal brooch? Yes! Oh my gosh! Yes! Yeah, brooches were all the rage. It was in like Jane Magazine and Marie Claire. Oh my gosh, it was so cool. That was the thing.

I love that. I just remember feeling so proud being like, Hillary, I found it. I found your hair accessory. I found your brooch. It's vintage. It'll look really cool. It looks so pretty. And we were like in the hair and makeup trailer with JoJo like pinning it into your hair and it...

It was kind of like a slumber party meets formal moment for us in real life. And I loved it. Speaking of hair, I mean. Yeah, we're not. What's cool about this is that you can see the three of us as actresses all choosing things that are very different from one another. So we don't step on each other. Yeah. Because there's so much competition of like, who's going to be the prettiest at the party?

And for all of us to make choices about how our hair is going to look and how our dresses are going to look and how we're going to wear our makeup and stuff and to carve out spaces for one another. So we're all special in different ways. I like that about the aesthetics because it's not just saying the lines that are on the paper. Like those choices are part of the storytelling. They are. I remember hearing once that

I don't know if it was Meg Ryan or Julia Roberts or one of the big rom-com girls had a rule that none of the extras in the scenes with her could have the same hair.

So there couldn't be with Meg Ryan. Like I think it was Meg Ryan and I'm sorry if it wasn't Meg and I just got this story wrong, but it's not, it's not negative in any way. I just don't want to tell an incorrect story, but this is what I've heard. But yeah, so there's no other blondes.

in the background, in the extras, in the scene around it. And I remember the first time I heard that, I was like, oh, that's so, you know, bitchy. But then I thought about it. I'm like, no, actually, there's something really smart about that. That's part of the storytelling is being able to identify and, you know, clearly see who are we looking at, who, you know, it's part of crafting, like what a director does with making sure that all the lights are in the right place and what the wardrobe designer does, making sure there's no two people in the same color in the same scene, right?

Hair does become a kind of a big deal with women in storytelling and it's worth making space for each other in that. Especially when you have a haircut like Meg Ryan's haircut or Jen Aniston on Friends, the Rachel. Right, right. Everyone starts copying those haircuts. Right. And so then what? You're going to be in like a sea of Meg Ryans and you're playing like, where's Waldo? Right.

I know. But think about the conversation that had to be had. Like she or whoever this actress was, if it wasn't Meg, had to go to a director or somebody and say, I don't want anybody, any other blondes in the scenes with me. And she, I'm sure, was labeled difficult for saying something like that. Right? Rather than smart. Right. Right.

Because it's a subconscious thing. If she is the focus of whoever her love interest is in the scene, she should pop for the audience the same way she pops for the love interest. Yeah, exactly.

I know. It's interesting. But we did, I like what you were saying. So if we did make space for each other with hair and that's something that I've carried with me in other jobs that I go into, especially if I'm not the lead to go and tell the hair person, like, here's how I was thinking. But if the lead actress comes in and wants to do her hair half up, half down, and mine's already that way, just come over to me and take my hair out and we'll do something else. Like I'm, I defer because I'm not in the lead position, you know? And I think it's important to do that. Yeah.

I agree. And I think it's something that when you point it out in that way, too, you know, with what you were saying, Hill, and Joy, even the way you're filling it in. One of the things I really like about it is to think about how much really shitty pressure we were getting from a lot of the grownups in the room to not work.

Make space for each other and to not trust each other. And we still had that, like that burning little candle to be like, no, but they're, but I, they're my friends. I love them. And like, we, we fought it in the ways we knew how to, we made space.

space for each other in the ways that we could at the time until we all aged together and learned better communication skills together. And like, it really touches me to see the ways that even when we felt scared and confused, we tried to figure out how we could prioritize each other. It wasn't always like that, though. So if I mean, I mean, I don't know, maybe it was for you. I remember being insecure and feeling insecure.

Like, I didn't, but also because there was so much mistrust sewn in there that I remember feeling like nobody's looking out for me, so I've got to look out for myself. So I want to do my hair this way and I'm just going to have to, you know, put my foot down and do it, which then, you know, especially as I continued to go blonde and then curly, I'm sure created some tension with you, Hilary, that we never talked about it. I cut all my hair off, Joy. That's right.

But it was any time one of us was moving into a space...

we would compensate for each other and move into a different space. Like I loved the opportunity to cut all my hair off because you were fulfilling like the long curve. But you didn't feel forced to do that? Like. No, I was trying to get rid of all this damage. I've always carried a little guilt that I thought you were like, I was being stubborn and I put my foot down and you were like, oh, fine, whatever. I don't want to fight with joy. I'll just do my hair the other way. No, babe, you let me off the hook. They wanted.

wanted me to be the curly haired girl and I was trying to cut off all this damage from season two and I was like look joy already has like the long curly hair please let me cut my season three bob oh I'm gonna cry I always felt a little like awkward about that hair matters it matters I loved my season three back at my old set my old younger self I'm like joy you're so stubborn why were you so stubborn

No. Listen, if one of you bitches comes for my gray hair, then we're going to have a problem. You know I can't wait. You know I've been trying and no one will let me do it. No, you guys. When it's my turn, I'm coming to you for all the advice. Yeah, listen, they give men all sorts of credit for being like salt and pepper and whatever. And so I'm going to just, I'm going to pee on that turf. You look amazing.

It's all I've ever wanted. But that dance that we all do, it's so silly to like think it's just about hair. It was about, you know, the wardrobe, about doing interviews, making sure that we rotated. Where do we fit? Where do we belong? Who am I? How do we differentiate ourselves? So we're individuals, but we're also together. But we're a team. Yeah. It's so hard to navigate when you're that young and they've got no guidance, nobody teaching you how to do it.

Now we get to just celebrate it. And we all cheered for Sophia's bang. Yes! Yes!

That bang was not going to move in the beach. It's like a whole can of Aquanet. Oh, I was just about to say it, Jojo. We were at the beach. The wind was crazy. And Jojo came at me with one of those hair shields and a bottle of Aquanet. What's a hair shield? Girl, it's like a plastic. It's like a visor. It's what we wore during COVID. It's a visor.

Oh, my God. No, I'm talking about the plastic. Like it was like a visor with a handle on it. Yeah. Stick around your face so people could spray bottles of hair glue on you. And yeah, that bang. I don't think it moved for a week. But it was so good. You looked like, you know, like a flamenco dancer. Like it was so sexy in the mermaid. Guys, remember mermaid dresses? A mermaid tail. It's so flattering. That purple. My wedding dress was a mermaid dress.

I'm a fan. That's right. I was going to say it. And then I was like, do people know that? Maybe I shouldn't. Yeah, we posted pictures. That's true. You did full lengths. Yeah, I don't know. I just remember how nice it felt for us all to be together and to be dressed up. I have such sense memory of

of those scenes. Weirdly not of the scenes at the formal, like we all were like, there's an Eiffel tower there. Like what? We don't remember that. I can't believe I remember. Same, but the beach, it was so memorable. I think cause we were there for, you know, for days and days shooting those scenes. And all night it was all out night exterior. So it was slumber parties for us. Yeah. And, and I loved seeing the,

I loved seeing some of these characters' insecurities coming out. You know, Peyton really trying to figure out how to deal with her loneliness. Brooke...

beginning to reveal that her nuclear emotion is the feeling of betrayal. And like when she feels betrayed, everything's off. You know, a little bit of old Nathan comes out when he feels abandoned by his one safe person and he starts to get a little salty and he's drinking with the boys. And you started to see

in the cracks of these people. And I liked it. In the cracks. That's what this whole episode is. It's all the little cracks. It really is. And you, when we were watching the episode and Brooke flipped out on mouth, I was like, why is she like this? You said you had thoughts, Joy, and I want to know what they are. Yeah. Well, that was it. What you just said about betrayal. I mean, everything that we've seen of Brooke up to this point indicates that she's used to

being betrayed. She's used to the other shoe dropping at some point. And whether it's a perceived betrayal or a real betrayal, it's hard when you're that young to differentiate. And I feel like Brooke just had a lot of history of that. And so at the first sign of someone, a

especially like mouth a friend who she considers to be, as you say, a safe place. Above the other stuff. Yes. She doesn't have the wherewithal or the maturity to understand or to appreciate, rather, that he's coming to her offering this information as a gesture of honesty. Yes. She can't understand that yet. All she hears is,

You lied to me. That's it. There's nothing beyond that because all of Brooke's walls so far of what we've seen is that they just go up. As soon as she's lied to, the walls go up. I love Brooke so much in this episode too. Yeah. Because she's not just like seeing, talk about an arc too, right? Like going through all these different emotions and dealing with the different guys and she's just a giant overpowering.

Open wound. All over everything. But she's so strong. It's like, it's like in William Wallace coming out of the like, she's wearing blue.

Just standing up like, you can't take me down. I don't care how many knives you thrust in me. I will prevail. Yeah. Yeah, she's even cool with Anna. You know, like the boy thing is hard. My best friend has a new best friend thing is hard. And she's just kind of gracious but firm. I mean, with Felix, she doesn't embarrass him in front of anybody else. She's like, you, back room, right now.

This is how it is now. That speech that she gives him, she's like, oh, girl. Did that feel good? That felt good. Oh, it felt so good. It felt so good. It was a fun line to deliver. And I just, I think all my pissed off, like pent up feminist rage was just like, you will be the focus of this. And it was nice because I really, yeah, I kind of felt like in that moment to really go deep on the Braveheart story.

Metaphor. I really felt like I was holding a torch for so many of us, you know, and to say, like, you're not getting in my bed and you don't get my body, you don't get my heart. She really she sets a boundary for herself. And I like the point you made, Joy, that, you know, she doesn't have the adult emotional maturity yet.

to necessarily see all of the nuance. But what she does do for a young person that's impressive to me is she knows she's not being respected. And she's like, good, I'm out. Yeah, I deserve better than this. And, and I love the strength of that, even though it's messy. And even though it comes from her being hurt. I love that she starts to say, you know, I'm, I'm throwing down a boundary. It's great.

You can feel disrespect in your gut before you understand it in your head. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. That is true. It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th. Take

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Brooke sitting on the beach alone. Yeah. And, and you see each of our women alone at some point, Brooke's on the beach, Peyton's in her room, Haley's at home reading that letter. And that moment for, for Brooke to be sitting there when Lucas comes up and all three of us were like, Oh no, don't do it. Don't make a mistake. And instead of coping,

with a guy she's coped with before, she has a friendly conversation. She admits to him that she feels like a joke. She says the good, the bad guys lie to get in your bed and the good guys lie to get in your heart. And yes, she's talking about Felix and she's talking about Lucas, but she's also talking about mouth. And, and the way that he offers her

a perspective. Yeah, what was his quote? Oh, it was so good. He talks to her about how you're not a joke. He says people lie because they don't know who they are. And you do, Brooke. And everybody else is lying because they hope that no one figures out who they are before they figure it out themselves. And

I just, what a profound moment for these kids to have. That's so true, actually. Am I wrong? But Brooke has really only lied intentionally out of a strategy almost. I don't know that I've seen Brooke lie out of insecurity at any point in these two seasons. Wow. I don't think so either, yeah.

And what an interesting thing, because Brooke witnesses Haley's lie about working with Chris Keller. Out of an insecurity. In the supper party episode and is like, huh. Yeah. Interesting. And so all these people are trying to figure out how to tell the truth. And Peyton tells the truth to Anna. Yeah.

You know, when Anna confronts her about the cocaine and says, well, is it about this, about Jake? And you say, yeah, that and everything else. That killed me. A kid acknowledging that things have piled up and just made them feel so sad. Yeah.

Because things do pile up. If you don't fix it, it becomes like a speed bump. And then one more thing piles up. And one more thing piles up. And it becomes a barricade. And so you've got to fix the speed bump. That's an easy thing to handle. So the other stuff doesn't accumulate. I'm still trying to figure out how Anna got her drunk ass to Peyton's house. Because...

There was so much emotional work in this episode that like, like the functional stuff, they're like, don't worry about it. It's fine. No one cares. How did Haley paint her nails? How did Anna get to be? How did this stuff happen? We don't know. There were taxis in Tree Hill because Emmanuel, what was her character's name? Nikki. Nikki. Because Nikki, um,

Took a taxi at some point. Remember, she met Jake outside the Twin Dixie in a taxi. Took a taxi. I don't know. Yeah. Oh, that's right. The supermarket. But Brooke was going to walk home. There was no Uber back then. So, yeah, I don't know. I also loved that. Like, I'm going to get home without you. And then being like, actually, I really don't want to walk. I loved that too.

That's Brooke telling the truth. Like that's the thing. That's like the punctuation mark there. It's like, I'm just going to tell the truth because I don't need to pretend that I'm tough. Get me home. I'm tired. I don't want to be poor. I'm good at being rich. Yeah. Help me. Help me. It's so great. What else? Do we have adult stuff? Was there any adult stuff in this episode? Dan told Deb the truth. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, guys.

I've said it before. You said it. And I feel guilty about it, but it's toxic. And I still am rooting for the two of them to get back together. Because I don't want them to sabotage anyone else. I do think Deb deserves better, but like, they're very sexy together. They're very sexy together. And if they could figure it out, if they could help each other out.

If they could just clean out like that infected pus from the wound of their relationship and sew it shut. They could just have a little scar instead of sepsis. Like I would root for it if they would just do the work. They need a better therapist than the one they had in season one. They really do. Because Dan walks all over that therapist. They need somebody who's going to whip that man in shape. It would have been great if Dan and Deb had like a whitey therapist. Yeah.

Well, Joy, you kept bringing up all the HIPAA laws that were broken. Who is the doctor calling Lucas? First of all, okay, he calls Lucas, who is a minor without a parent's consent, and then tells Lucas that he's got information from a different doctor that Lucas did not release. A different doctor. That is Dan's doctor. Right, right. Lucas didn't release this information. Right.

Then the doctor on the phone with Lucas after giving him a lecture then tells him private medical information from his father. Yeah.

And then the doctor calls Dan and tells him everything that happened with Lucas. I'm like, who is this doctor? He needs to be fired. It's like not even the doctor. It's just like a drunk, you know, like physician's assistant. That's like, I don't know. They told me to make a phone call, whatever. It's amazing. Those are those are the things, guys, listening at home that sometimes as actors, you read a script and you go, oh, my God.

This is important to the device of the story. It's completely ridiculous. It would never happen. But this is where we just have to take creative license and say, okay, because otherwise we're going to go crazy as evidenced by the fact that we are going crazy about this 18 years later. Yeah.

That shit drives me crazy, though. It's so lazy. I know. It is lazy. Because it could have been an office assistant who is like, you know, 19. You mixed up your files. Called the wrong person. Or she's chewing gum and she's watching a soap opera on TV and she's like, yeah, yeah, the results came in and she's talking to, oh, sorry, I thought you were Lucas. You know they just didn't want to hire somebody else. They didn't want to write it. They didn't want to spend because they built us a miniature Eiffel Tower and they spent it already. That's right. That I've...

Okay. School dances, though. You guys were like, our school dances didn't look like this. You said yours did, though. Oh, girl. Parkview High School Dances. I'm going to post pictures this week for Parkview High School Dances. Someone remind me. Yeah, me too. I'm going to try to find mine. Let's post some school dance pictures because we

We had some pretty epic, you know, there's like a catalog, right? That you, if you were in student government, your job was to raise money all year long. And then you would buy these kits and they would come with like a big backdrop and like some things made out of cardboard. Oh yeah. And so you would decorate the whole gym with these like themes and on all the tables, there would be like, I want to say we did like,

Like a whole like Arabian Nights one. And it was like, you know, like little lamps on the tables. And like, it was like beautiful. It's like my Saved by the Bell dream. Every time I would watch Saved by the Bell and I was like, why are their dances so amazing? Because you'd go to the football game on Friday night. And then Saturday morning, the student government kids would get up at like six in the morning, go to the school, decorate all day, make the balloon arches, and then go home, quickly shower, and then still look like shit.

at the dance like you can always tell who like those kids were tell us what songs i want to know what song you remember the most was always played at like every school dance besides like the macarena or the funky oh my god casey and jojo all my life that's the second i said it you both were like girl but you feel it in your bones i've got a sense memory yeah yes

Yeah. That's embarrassing. This is the slow song that I've been waiting for. Oh, yes. But it was also the era of like, like great party rap, you know, like I, you know, when Snoop and Tupac and Biggie, like Jay-Z, you know, like,

School dances were great because the party music was great. And then you'd have like your slow songs like, fine, okay, whatever. I remember going to prom and my boyfriend getting so excited because they played The Cure. And he was like, I can't believe they're playing The Cure and like lost his mind. And he just, he was such a sullen boy and he had such like a goofy grin on his face that I was kind of taken aback. I was like, I don't know if I'm attracted to you anymore. It's strange.

Wait, Joy, what was yours? It was played at Paradise by the Dashboard Light, that Meat Loaf song. That song, that's when the DJ was smoking outside because that song is like 20 minutes long. Exactly. I know. It was always so epic. And also to play in a high school dance, which is hilarious because it's all about like having sex in the back. Hooking up in your car. Yeah.

back in the car. I'm like, how did the teachers allow this song to be played? Because they all were standing against the bleachers going like, yeah, this was a bop. This was a jam. Yeah, those songs last forever and ever. Yeah.

I tease my son. We listened to 90s on 9 in the car. I've said that before. And Gus, the first time he heard that song by Belle Biv Devoe, Poison, he was like, what is this? And now it comes on the radio every time we get in the car. And I'm like, Gus, it's your favorite song. And he's like, Mom, it's not my favorite song. But I told him when I chaperone his school dances when he gets older, I'm going to make sure the DJ plays. That girl is poison. Oh, it's so good.

What are they saying? Oh, she'll remind us to put pictures up. Fantastic. Okay, real quick, we need to talk about High Flyers because Nathan finally reveals Haley's lied to him about the whole Chris Keller thing, but he has also lied about High Flyers and the reveal. You played that reveal so good, Joy. Thank you. So sweet. It was nice to see. I like seeing Nathan and Haley together.

for the first time. It's realistic. Yeah.

Because it's been kind of like sunshine and glitter. Yeah. For a while. Especially where their dreams are concerned, right? Because they really succeed as a couple, but couples are made up of two individuals. Yeah. And now that their dreams are requiring potential sacrifice or anyone else being in the mix, going away for high flyers or working with Chris Keller, things aren't so easy. And it's nice to see them having...

a little bit of the reality that so many people have to deal with when they try to be in relationships. Yeah, exactly. Sacrifice is a hard thing as a kid. It's a hard thing as a grownup. Yeah, it is. It really is. I like it. I'll do it.

Nobody does, but that's why it has to be worth it. I mean, there's always... Exactly. I kind of always say like, there's really no such thing as freedom. You're always saying no to one thing in order to say yes to another thing. I mean, to say I want to live life totally free with no constraints is impossible. I mean, we have constraints with the laws of physics and just the universe. Like there's always... There's always constraints somewhere. Yes. So...

It's just a matter of figuring out which ones you're willing to live with and which ones are worth saying goodbye to in order to or saying hello to or whatever in order to have something else. So, yeah, I mean, that's a really hard thing to navigate in relationships as adults, let alone as kids. But I don't know, maybe it's easier when you're young. Maybe it's easier when you're older.

You haven't experienced all these different options and you haven't traveled the world and been with all these different people. Maybe it's easier when you're younger and you can just say, yeah, okay, the simple thing is I love you more than I love, I don't know, whatever the thing is. I don't know. I think it's harder. Or I love myself more than I love any of this or you and I need to do what's best for me. Right.

when is it what's best for me is actually what's best for us or what's best for us is what's best for me. I mean, it's just so hard. It's so confusing. Once you've lived your life a little bit, at least you can say, I've got this bag of stuff that's mine. Yeah. Right? When you're super young, it's like, oh, it's never going to happen for me.

okay, because I'm picking you, you know, like it's, I don't know. Unless you can do sort of what, like what Maria Menounos was talking about in our episode with her and her husband about the way that they seem to really grow together. And she didn't have to sacrifice all that stuff. And which is again, why it's so important to find a partner that, you know, that you can grow with. Cause I've heard this before by people who've been married for a long time that, um,

that you're never married to the same person. You're married to 10 different people throughout the course of your relationship, right? If it sucks right now, wait two years. It'll be better later. Just hold on. And I think that's true. I got two years. There's got to be a foundation of agreement and same values and shared... I guess shared values is the fundamental thing. But

and person, you have to like each other and you should be attracted to each other. And then beyond that, you're going to both be morphing so much as life goes on. Yeah. You got to be able to support each other in your individual pursuits, but also feed the relationship as its own entity. Right. Well, and I think what's so beautiful too about if you're in that right kind of relationship is

is that when you do have to make a sacrifice, you can look at the practical landscape of your life and go, I can only spin this many plates. Okay. And it doesn't feel like a ding on who you are to have to spin plates, not just for yourself, but also for your relationship. And one of the people who I think is so smart about this

I don't know if we've talked about this or not, but basically referencing what you're saying, Joy, Esther Perel, you know, her whole thing, like her gazillion time bestseller book, Meeting in Captivity, about how people...

stay in relationships that are filled with desire when they've been in those relationships for decades. She said something that I think is so beautiful. She said, most people have an average of three marriages in their adult lifetime. And the lucky ones have all three marriages in the same with the same person. And like, I love that, that you can give yourself the permission to

To meet your partner, to remarry your partner, to be mysterious again. Like what a what a sick goal. Yeah, I like that. I like it. I like it a lot. Do we think that Nathan's ever been hurt by a girl before? I mean, we know he was with. Good question. Do you know what I mean? It's like he gets so hurt.

He's not a dick when he tells her to go find that letter. When he tells, you know, Haley, like, go look at my top drawer. But you can see that he is like, I just got burned so hard. Yeah. How's he going to react? Is he going to...

Throw walls up and, you know, this because that's sort of how he's gone about things. But he can now because he's in it to win it. He's married. Well, you see it coming. You see something I love that James did in the episode is at first when you say you're going to be late.

Yeah. You can see him go, ah. And when Haley says, you didn't even want to go anyway. Mm-hmm. And we find out he's been fibbing to plan. Oh, the carriage. The carriage. The carriage. Oh, gosh. But you can kind of see him...

take the hit because he goes oh I created this she doesn't think I wanted it go yeah but then when you make it and everything's supposed to be perfect and you guys get crowned and then he hears Chris Keller then he's like go home and find a letter you know like and and I wonder where will he land on the scale of broing out and being you know angry and putting his walls up versus you

you know, being willing to meet you in the middle. I'm so curious about what happens next week. I am too. Considering we totally forgot like major plot points. I forgot everything about this episode. But you guys, it's so fun. It's like we actually get to be fans of our own show. I feel like I know what the audience felt. I'm like, God, I actually also can't wait for next week. I highly recommend everyone wait 20 years to go back and evaluate whatever job.

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia and with the help of law enforcement brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.

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That I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We have any viewer questions? Oh, yeah. I feel like we do. What do we got? Oh, I like this question.

Oh, Nicole wants to know, Brooke's winks are so cute in this series. Was this your personal touch or were you scripted to do it? That was all me, baby. The, like, the winks and the eyebrow raises and the things that just felt like her, there was such a physicality to her. And if I may say so myself, I also, I brought in Hi Friend because that was me. Hi Friend. Oh.

Yeah. Hi, friend. Hi, boyfriend. That all came from an inside joke with me and my best friend from college. And it was really fun to, you know, put little nods to real life. Did that come from you? I've said that. I've been saying that for as long as I can remember. But it makes sense that that came from just being around you. That's so funny. I say it now. I'm like, hi, friend. Hi, friend. Yeah.

I like our tics in the show. We noticed at the beginning of the episode, we talked about how we remembered filming that scene in the mall together, like buying the dress. But it's funny, you know, we talked about editing when they cut stuff up, you don't know what take they're going to use. And it just looks like I'm slapping your ass like 10 times. Because...

I probably like did it once at one take and then another time at another take, but they're like, we're going to use all the ass slaps. So we need just a highlight reel of Davis winks of Peyton fondling other women and enjoy. What was Haley's tick? Oh, I feel it's this right here that, Oh, stop.

No. The scowl. My double, my 11s on my eyebrows. I love them. Yeah. Done. Done. Thank you for the question, Nicole. What else do we have? Oh, and here's one from Grace. Did you have any tricks to learn lines in a hurry on set? Oof. Did you guys learn your lines the night before? Or did you learn them that morning? Oh, yeah.

No, I, I learned them really because I was on that soap for years. So yeah. And I learned my lines really fast. I mean, if I had like a character to really prep for, or if I had a big monologue, then I would turn it into a song. Oh, wow. Yeah. So, um, if I would go to, um, a song that I knew really well, um,

Like, I don't know, whatever, bye bye Miss American Pie or something. And then I would take the paragraph that I had to learn and put those words in place of the lyrics in my brain. And I would learn that way so that when I was up there talking or giving my speech, I was just running through the song in my head. And the words would just kind of come out and I wouldn't be thinking about them. That's amazing. That's a good trick. That's so cool.

I'm going to do that. Yeah. I mean, I worked at MTV forever, so it was like live. And you had to look at a cue card during the 30-second commercial break and then go out and just know all the information. Oh, hell. Oof. So, like, you know, I learned a lot.

that morning i try i don't want to like fixate on it too much because then it doesn't feel like it's just coming out of my mouth you know because i over rehearse i know when i've like done it too much and i'm just tired and over it um and the words start to sound weird you're like what does what does presence what's presence what is that presence yeah that's not a word you're like i've i've turned the words into shapes they're ruined forever can you imagine doing a fincher film

where you have to do like 120 takes. I would lose my mind. I would love to, but I also think I might have a nervous breakdown. Yeah, I know. I had an audition for one the other day and I was like, I don't think I want to. This seems like a lot. I feel like...

maybe some other things instead. But no, you guys, we had a director who called us two take wonders. They were like, you guys get it in two takes. Who called us that? I don't know. Because I remember being like so flattered by it, but also like, wait a second, are we just like short on time? Or do you really mean that like we do it in two takes? I think we got it. We learned how to get it fast. We all did. We learned the really great balance between the technical and the artistry. And that's something that I've

always tried to remember is that there is a technical side to this. And so one of the things I really like to do, I like to go back to Grace's question. I like to

go through my script a lot. Top to bottom, make notes, work on subtext, think about, you know, what's really being said, tie together themes from, you know, scene 12 to scene 67. Like, I really like to have the full picture of it. You've got one of those serial killer boards where you have all the red string that ties everything together. Yeah, I have this, like, program on my iPad. It's like Homeland. It's

Fully. What program do you use? Oh my God, Scriptation. I will give you a tutorial. It's going to change your life. Oh, yes, please. It will change your life. And I just love it. And so for me, what I find is...

I want to know the story so well and the scenes really well to where I can make sure when I have jargon or a monologue that I've got it, but I can have a little bit of that freedom on the day so that the scenes, so that the dialogue hasn't turned into word shapes in my mouth. Word shapes. That's what I hate to say. It's just word shapes and I hate it. Yeah. Yeah.

Love it. Word shapes. Let's spin a word shape wheel. Word shaped wheel. Who is most likely to have a nervous breakdown over their dialogue? No, that's not a disability. Ooh. Joy with your sexy voice. Who is most likely to secretly be in the CIA? I mean, okay. You know it's me, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Joy. She's like, oh, I've been performing all over the planet with my band. But really, I'm, you know, I'm an operative that's using these gigs to gather information. I could see you doing that at like our Paris conventions for sure. Yeah. All right. Most likely to. I don't know what character. I mean, whatever. You don't have to choose me. It's really. I choose you. I choose me.

I choose you. It's perfect. It's like, who were the dames that did it? Julia, wasn't Julia Child? Yeah. Wasn't she an operative? Who were the other like famous lady operatives? Yeah, that's where she met her husband. Ava Gardner. Ava Gardner, yeah. Josephine Baker. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Performers are very good operatives. Yeah. You know, there was a whole program in the CIA in the 60s.

where they placed agents in Hollywood as executives at a lot of the studios to push particular government agendas in movies. There's a whole program about it. You can go read it. I'll send you the info. It's really interesting. Yeah, wait. There's a... Somebody...

Somebody was just telling me, and of course now I can't remember, but about, it was either a book or like some really in-depth article about how as soon as we, once we started doing serious space missions with NASA and like realized we were definitely not alone in the universe. Yeah.

Like, the government was like, y'all have to make some alien movies that aren't scary because people are going to freak out when they find out there's aliens. Is that when we got Alf on TV? They're like, give him Alf. Yeah, 100%. Like, what was the, that's where we got Coneheads for sure. It's like, well, they're nice and funny. E.T. Alf Coneheads. Yeah. They're friendly.

So I buy it. I believe it. So good. What character, though? I don't know. Kieran, I guess, maybe? Yeah. What's his name? I mean, Deb's job. Listen, Deb's job was always very vague. Very vague. And it stressed her out enough that she had PTSD and coming home to Dan was just more than she could handle. Yeah.

She turned to the pills. Oh, and remember she put on that black cat suit once? What was this? The thing that's coming up. Her and Karen are on a billboard. On the billboard. Oh my God. Deb. I'm down with Deb. I buy that. We got to tell Barbara. She'll love it. I love it. Oh, you guys, this was fun. I miss you. I wish we were all in party dresses together. Thank you to everyone who put up with my gravelly voice. I'm sure it was irritating to listen to. You did, baby. Yeah, get better.

You did great. Drink some honey. And guys, we'll see you next week. We will see you for season two, episode 10. Don't take me for granted. Wait, I have to say one thing. This episode premiered that song by Patti Griffin, the rowing song. And it's when I fell in love with Patti Griffin. I'd never heard her voice before, but,

that album is so beautiful. And if you don't know Patty Griffin, go get the 1000 kisses album. I mean, go get all of them, but yeah, just throwing that out there for music fans, Patty Griffin. That's your bonus. Go get it. Kids love it. You're listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at drama Queens, OTH or email us at drama Queens at I heart radio.com. See you next time. We school drama, girl, drama,

Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

It's back to school season for the kiddos, which means it's the perfect time to get your vacay on. Beaches are empty, resorts are quiet, and cheap Caribbean vacations has fall vacay deals up to, wait for it, 45% off. Plus, you can score more site-wide savings and take an extra $50 off your booking now through September 5th. Take

Take this as your sign to pencil in a vacay this fall and turn back to school season into back to beach season. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to find your next all-inclusive vacay offer and September 5th.

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For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪