7. Would Maddy, Meg and Jemma get into Oxford?
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Welcome back, everyone. Today we have some very special guests, if you'd like to introduce yourselves. I'm Maddie.

And? My name is Meg. Oh, good job. You know, for as much as you guys were talking before this, I didn't think it was going to be a struggle to say your own name. No, Maddie was going first. I made the eye contact and Maddie was like, yes! Really? I thought the eye contact was you were going to go first. No, I thought it was you. Anyway. A bit of a miscommunication, guys. Which is what we need to talk about. Good segue, Meg. Excellent. She's a natural. I know. So this was kind of a spontaneous episode.

Basically, the glorious Maddie, she's back from Queensland. Darwin. Oh, Darwin. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Well, she's back from Darwin, but she had to travel through Queensland. Sunshine State. The Sunshine State. Yeah. To get to Canberra. And the other day she got back and she messaged me these really cool questions. And it's not really like a typical episode, but I thought we'd answer some of them. Maybe we should talk about what these questions are.

And also, I'm just an add-on, by the way. Thanks for inviting me. No, you're not an add-on. No, you're here to contribute your unique perspective of a 20-something year old. No, she's just my housemate, so we thought, oh, we might as well include her. Okay, continue. No, we value your insights. Yeah, no, I found these questions on TikTok. Oh, is that how you found them? Yeah, there was this guy talking about, like, this college in Oxford, and...

It's just a residential college, but in order to get in, it's a very rigorous selection process and they make you sit four three-hour exams. It's 12 hours in total. Yeah, in total. It used to be five. And then you have to have an interview where there's like 50 people interviewing you and they admit one to two people every year. It's really, really selective. That's just silly. And all of this information is from TikTok. Yeah.

Why is it that selective? Because what do you get out of it? Oh, because you get funding to do research on whatever you want for seven years. At Oxford. At Oxford, yeah. No, at a different uni. No, Oxford's at...

At Cambridge. Like the best university ever. You're emphasising, yes, yes. It's the best university out there nearly. And then you're just living with other people doing their seven years of research. I feel so overwhelmed. But if only two get admitted, what about all those other people? Where do they come from? From previous years? So the college must only have like 20 people in it. Yeah. But because you're there for seven years, it takes a long time to filter people out. That's only 14 people. That's 14 people.

So that's a pretty small college. It's a very small... Wait, is that how the maths would work? Isn't it like... Okay, seven years. Maybe when they set it up, they were like, you know what, we'll be generous. We'll let like 100 people in. And then since then, they've only been adding like one or two people and it takes a long time to filter people out because they get seven years. Anyway, the point is seven years of funding. Maybe they... No, I think what happens is they have the people who are like all the rich kids who have to pay...

And then this is a scholarship for the ones who, like, can't pay, but probably rich kids still get it. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fair. I mean, I definitely could have looked at this college, like, beyond the TikTok that I watched. No, who cares? And, well, you know, I just want to fact check and not be a culprit of spreading misinformation. Good. So, basically, on this exam, they ask a bunch of these, like, very...

abstract, intellectual questions. Yeah, I think they're questions that really kind of underpin the world. Humanity. Good, jinx! Good on you. And they're very interrelated. There's different fields and we thought we would answer some of the psychology questions and see whether Meg, Maddie and Gemma would get into Oxford College. Oh, I really think that we would. I think we would as well. Well, we'll have to see, but maybe we should probably just...

give you guys more of an introduction to tell everyone how we met oh yeah get them get them familiar before we ah yes deep dive so Meg how did we meet well we went to B&G together but we weren't friends yeah and I think we both thought we hated each other I remember you told me like I thought you hated me and I was like oh my god I thought Gemma you hated me no I was so intimidated by you oh intimidated that's probably a better word yeah I was so intimidated by you and then last year during COVID this is how so many strong friendships start yeah I thought you hated me at the start and

And then last year we, who were, I don't even know how. Was it? I don't know. Was it Tanea? Yeah. Or Jasmine maybe? We basically just hung out once. It was here, I remember. And I was like, we had a good conversation in this lounge room of the street that must not be named. And the house. And it's beautiful. Is that where it was? And then we just started hanging out. No, I sent you a message saying I really enjoyed that conversation. Oh, I remember.

Okay, we can't actually talk about what we were doing. Wait, I'm going to search it up because I really want to know what it is. No, I know exactly what it was. I drove you guys to Maccas. Oh, that. That.

Oh, yeah. And then... Can I tell a funny story? Okay, so I hadn't had anything to drink, so I drove them to Macca's. It was me and two others, yeah. And Jasmine and Erin. Someone's birthday. It was someone's birthday, wasn't it? Yeah, it was Jasmine's birthday. Yeah, oh, that makes sense. It was a year ago, basically. Yeah. And so I drove them up to... We got McDonald's, and then I drove them up to Mount Ainsley, and there were these two people having sex in a car. Oh.

And I was driving and Jasmine, I hate to call her out. It wasn't just Jasmine. It was all of us. All of you guys just really wanted to see them having sex. We were doing this loop like three or four times. Yeah, it was foggy. The windows were foggy. The windows were foggy, but like,

I just felt so bad because we kept driving past their car and every time we'd drive past their car, Jasmine or one of you would be like, slow down. Yeah, we'd slow down so much. I was at a standstill and you guys were just staring at this car, but that's how we met. Oh, you're going to go back and find the first message? Well, how about while you do that? Maddie, how did we meet? I think we had chats at B&G. Yeah. But I think we both did a lot of like...

extracurricular shit that like overlapped bossy bossy yeah um what else and you're a very chatty easy to talk to person so yeah I think you're really easy to start off a friendship with and that's so nice you're a good podcaster too oh guys I found the message it actually wasn't that overwhelming like it wasn't very like but I think that's what stemmed our friendship oh hope the foot down went okay I don't know what that means I was about my ex-housemate

Oh! This satanic being who shall not be named. I can't... And I was... Oh! Yeah. I can't even... Yeah. Anyway, that's... And what did you say? I said thank you. Disgrace and mysterious. Thank you. Had a fun evening with you. Thanks for driving also. And then...

Yes. This is a really detailed history. Yes, it is. We might... Must know. We don't need to cut it out. If people are listening to this, they want to hear us, but also... Meg and I live together. Oh, we do. We do. Yeah. Ooh, she's moving her neck closer to me. She's moving it over me. Should I leave or should I go? We...

Well, funny question, I was doing that Centrelink thing last night and I was like, are any of your housemates couples? Like, are you a couple with any of them? And there was like three questions meaning the same thing, but I just wanted to check. Wait, is this Census? Centrelink. Oh, Centrelink. Yeah, and have you participated in activities that you would call yourself a couple? So have you had sex with your housemates? No, do you live with them in the same room? No.

Do you share expenses? There's so many questions about... But we're not a couple, I don't think. Dude, if that's the... Not since I lost check, but I'm definitely open to having a conversation if...

You know, if things change. I actually think if that's the definition of a couple, me and Ariana would count as a couple. Incentively it is. Yeah, me and Ariana would literally count as a couple because we share expenses. Like, sometimes we sleep in the same bed, like, have cuddles. Yeah, they have anything with the word, like, sexual in it. Maybe both of us are asexual.

In their eyes. Okay. Anyhow, let's move on. How long are these podcast episodes meant to be? To be honest, like...

We gotta just keep going. We can't. Well, we can stop it if you guys want. But to be honest, like, I just kind of just talk. And here's the thing. Like, it's kind of my podcast. So I'm kind of like, if you want to listen to this, you're happy to, welcome to listen to this. But it's also more like a diary entry for me where I'm like, the people I bring on are people that are really important in my life at the moment. Obviously, guys are important to me.

stop so it's like as much as people might get entertainment out of this they can skip past this if they want yeah but also like a journal thing yeah it's more for me like i know my my audience is not massive like it's just more that i get to have these great discussions it's building it's gradually increasing um but yeah thanks for introducing yourself guys so let's answer some of these questions that maddie found um through her tiktok

some of the Oxford College entrance questions. I feel like this is just going to be more of a discussion just because I feel like it's really interesting to offer different perspectives and like deep dive into it. Yeah, definitely. And I think that question is whether it's not really a right or wrong. No. Yeah. So please think about it as well. Yeah. Let us know. Send us a message on Instagram if you're woefully offended by anything we've said.

Or if you just... Or if you have an addition. If you have an addition, if you agree with us. But if you disagree, we don't want to hear it. Yeah, yeah. Just... I'm just going to block you. Spam. Yeah. Okay, Meg has the first question. Okay. It is. Is the internet changing the ways in which we think? Good question. That's a very broad question. I think it's obvious it is, but... But then I think it depends, like, how you narrow it down. Because, like, if you think about...

internet as an isolated concept. It's also expanded the way we think about things as well. And it's globalised our world. But are we including big data and algorithms into this question? Yes. Or are we talking more about the immense accessibility of information that the internet has facilitated? There's that one example. Have you watched The Social Dilemma? Yeah. You know how there's like...

If you are, like, far left or far right and then you, like... I don't know how it is. If you vote or if you just follow, like, far right politicians, then you get, like, into this spiral. This, like, negative feedback. If you follow, like, centre right and then it takes you on a rabbit hole to an eventful U.N. And you can never see other views. You can never see other views. So it's, like... So it does kind of change the way we think because it's, like, now I feel like previously...

opinions were more up for discussion whereas if you spend a lot of time on the internet especially as we all did last year when we were all inside our homes it's actually harder to get a diverse opinion on things and especially like you can kind of cherry pick the information that you want rather than and also it's so accessible to find evidence for your own opinion whereas previously you had to go read a textbook you had to go to the library but that's like yeah you were kind of forced to read more diverse

sources of information. That's a good point, though, because, like, I feel like with the internet and, like, what do you call it, technology coming on, I know, like, the generations of, like, 10-year-olds now can't think for themselves because they've got phones to search up on Google. Like, when we were 10, we fucking had... Oh, you meant to swear. You can swear, yeah. We had to go out and, like, you know... Make up ideas for ourselves. Yeah, literally, we had to think for ourselves. And that's actually, like, I always think about this. I'm like, are we going to lose our, like, process of this is a bit...

You know what I mean? We can just search on Google, like get our phone literally in our pocket.

for like 10 seconds. Yeah, also it reduces how we entertain ourselves. Like our cognitive thinking is going to be like, fuck, actually. I feel like this can all be so summarised in the Bo Burnham Netflix special that you're watching. Oh, is that that stupid? And welcome to the internet. No, I watched it when I was high, so I didn't know. Anything and everything all of the time. Yes. That is... Is that the one with the fucking... Oh,

The skinny guy? No, the song. Oh yeah, that's the song I showed you. Yes, and I watched it, but I was like, oh my, I was just like looking at it. You were like... But I think that's a really good point also, Meg, kind of off like what you were saying.

Because there's more accessibility of information as well, it means that all these people who previously wouldn't have gone and read textbooks, wouldn't have gone and read... Yeah, that's the point. ...gone and borrowed books from the library, wouldn't have gone to, like, saloons or, like, gone into lectures or gone to university, now actually have access to information. So it changes the way that we think in that, like...

more people are actually like accessing information who previously wouldn't have that's a good point but then the downside of that is that the information that they're accessing can sometimes actually lead to reduced cognition because yeah it's misinformation that's another point that's a completely other point but yeah oh Maddie's got a quote Maddie's got a book

she ran upstairs. Did you hear her? Elephant feet. She's got elephant feet. She was like, she just sprinted. Yeah, we didn't get any. I do get criticized for my elephant feet around here. All the time. Yes. No, it just reminded me of this book that I'm reading at the moment. It's by Thomas Friedman. Great. Thomas Friedman. No, no, he's American. Milton, it's a very Jewish name.

Oh, yeah, it is. Friedman. I actually know... Milton Friedman. I know a guy who lives in Israel. That's what he looks like on the back there. Sexy. But anyway, he kind of talks about the whole concept of the book is that technology is accelerating at a quicker pace than our kind of social ability and the ability of our institutions to adapt to those changes. Mm-hmm.

And the section I was reading just this afternoon, so this is super weird and coincidental, is about social media and the internet. And he points out... No, no, no, I'm not going to read... Yeah, I'm going to read the entire book. Sit down, ladies and gentlemen. This is the beginning of my audible career. Okay, what's my summary? Okay, some...

Sorry. But with the internet, we don't know how to deal with rumors. Rumors that confirm people's biases are now believed and spread among millions of people. Yeah.

Second, we create our own echo chambers, which we've kind of touched on. Third, online discussions quickly descend into angry mobs. Fourth, it became really hard to change our opinions. Because what you post online, you're somewhat wedded to. And on a bit of a tangent, like with celebrities and asserting their political views, I feel like there's a bit of a discussion about this and people are like, oh, they should...

stand up for this issue and that not um whatnot but um i actually think it's really really hard to maintain your political integrity once you stand up for one thing that's actually then you're expected to keep doing it and yeah the internet preserves those thoughts we actually humans hate change though like naturally because change is hard right as in like we all like i think all three of us are very progressive but it requires new adapters yeah like change is good and we need it but also like

That actually, like, the internet kind of, like, makes us be more stagnant in a way because we, like, can't change what we think and change is always... I would actually disagree with you because I find that the algorithm, just in, like, my personal growth, has actually really adapted to the way that my life has changed. Like, previously, like, when I was in a relationship, I get a lot of, like... I'm just going to use the example of Instagram Reels.

Just because it's on the top of my mind. So the Instagram algorithm almost, I find, adapts to what my interests are. It kind of leads into that thing where I get a bit of an epistemic echo chamber because I just put this data in and it just gives it straight back to me. And do you think that your echo chamber is better or more justified because...

Because it's a... But it's not... You think it's a more educated one. I don't... Okay, so that's interesting. So I think that the TikToks and the reels that I get are like very spiritual, very new age, very like... Well, that's what you're feeling at the moment. Yeah, very fitness orientated, very like, like I said, spirituality. But I don't have much political content. But it means that...

if that's the main platform that I consume my news from or my media from, obviously I do, like, read the news and do other things, but, like, it's the main online platform I use. The only information I'm getting from it is just stuff that, like, reinforces all the things I already think of. Already, yeah. I already believe. But where did you get, did you, when that first come up, did you search up, was it you, like, I really want to get into, like,

No, it's like, so you just, one of them would come up, you like it. And then, you know, in a couple of weeks, two of them come up, you like both of those. So it like adapts to the way that your mind shifts, which I find good because it's like... But do you have to search it up in the first place? You know what I mean? Like if you've got, so I've come back to Canberra and it's like a full new thing and I have to search up like, you know, what, not what TikTok is, but you know, like those kind of like randomness trends and I don't have any idea. Like is that, would it come up? You are re-entering society. I'm re-entering progressive society. Yeah, from far, from like rural Victoria. Yeah.

No, I think that it's the thing where it's like you interact with enough posts and like obviously occasionally you're going to like run across one that is like more... It's fine. We're pouring some wine. You're going to run across one that's more like... And you're like, oh, that's interesting. And then slowly it builds to you. But it's like both a blessing and a curse in that the person I want to become is reinforced by the media I'm consuming. But I also see that if I was getting all of my...

or my news content from my phone, from Instagram, from Facebook, how quickly it would be just to like slip into one category of thinking. Yeah, and I think it's so insidious that you don't... It's very hard to have the level of self-awareness required to... That's a very good point.

Because the internet can really... Also, don't you think it's interesting that our conversation about the internet, how immediately this conversation became about social media? Because we associate so many of the problems that the internet has produced with social media. But what about the internet more broadly if we look outside of the social media discussion? Yeah. I think also it's changed the way that we can receive answers more.

I don't know, it's funny because then I'm immediately going back to social media. Like, it's changed the way that we receive gratification. So previously, if we had a question, if we were seeking knowledge, if we were seeking stimulation, it would take a bit more. But now we pick up our phones, we go on the internet. It actually makes that cognitive process, like you were saying, a lot easier, a lot quicker. I still want to say it because I was just thinking with social, like, not just social, the internet or any, like, news or evidence thing on Google or whatever. Yeah.

I think it really favors people who are more self-aware, what you were saying, Maddie, and, like, intellectual. Like, I know so many people who have different, like, range of skills and aren't as, like, you know, university educated and stuff and they, like, they get sucked in really bad and, like, scammed. Like, that's a bad case in mind. You know, like, it really, the internet really, like, I don't know, I just find it's really, like, what's the word? Not, like, it...

I don't know what the word is. It kind of, like... People who can get sucked in by... Depending on who you are, you know? Like... Yeah. It favours people who are more, like, educated. One of the other questions on this list was... Is... Do internet users have...

Oh, that's quite... Equality. Equality, yeah. All internet users equal. No, they're not. No way. And I think, yeah, what you're saying is kind of delving into that. Yeah, that's why I'm talking about. They're not. Also, it depends on what you use the internet for. Mm-hmm.

Because I feel like it almost replicates a class structure that existed in real life. Like, if you use the internet for academic purposes, like we would be doing, or for research purposes, or for work purposes, you know, your experience with the internet, you would probably see it more as a tool. Yeah, that's a good point. Whereas if you were someone who is getting scammed, if you were someone who perhaps the internet is showing you all the things that you can't be, or...

You know, perhaps you're growing up in a rural community or in a poorer community. Like, the internet, yeah, it would be beneficial to you, but it might also create problems. It's more just... It could really just be like a... Not entertainment, but, you know, like... You just go on there to... It's addictive. To prove, because... If you've got nothing else to do. Yeah, in rural, literally, there's nothing to do. So you just, literally, what else is there to do? There's no, like...

see yeah so you could say that it's changed the way that we think in that sense because people don't really have to sit with themselves and how they feel that's such a big thing do you ever find that where you're like in a bad mood and you're like instagram we need to think of our own thoughts but we all we can't i remember like talking to a boss of mine a few years ago and um i was he was like quite a bit older and he was talking about like um

breaking up with someone and then he had to take a really long bus ride back to his place and it was like an hour and a half or two hours on public transport and he had forgotten his headphones and he was saying, you know, in hindsight I'm actually really glad that I didn't have my headphones. I guess...

listening to music on Spotify is not really... It's a distraction. It's enabled by the internet. It's a distraction. It's a distraction though from your own thoughts. Yeah. I do that all the time. Like how much do we actually, with the creation of the internet, and I guess we could make the argument for radio and things like that, but now that it's compact, it follows you everywhere, that we've got mobile phones and the internet. It's like a distraction. Yeah. How often are you alone with your thoughts? And has it changed the way we, if we like kind of going back to the actual question, like has it changed the way that we think?

Like, has it made us less resourceful? Because, you know, we have Google Maps at our fingertips. And obviously there's a lot of dialogue about how it's changed our attention span. It definitely has. Well, that's where I was kind of heading is, like, I was thinking, well, just then, it just came up to me. Like, you know, the reason when I, like, get really anxious or, like, you overthink things, which is very common these days. Well, maybe that's because... Anyway, we won't go there. But, like...

Is it because, like, if I use, like, the internet and, like, Spotify and music to, like, distract myself. But, like, you know, back in the day, back, you know, 40 years ago, how did people work with their overthinking thoughts? Like, how did they work with their anxieties? I don't know. I just, like, that's, like, I just feel that way. I find it really interesting with the anxiety thing because I think it's kind of ironic that

The internet really created a lot of services that should inherently reduce anxiety but have actually exacerbated it. Well, it's like the self... What's the image? The body image and things like that. Well, also just like the internet as a means for comparison with anything in your life. It's like we do kind of keep shifting onto social media. Just the means of comparison. I actually might make an argument that it actually has improved the way we think because it's increased...

the possibilities that people feel they have. Yeah, that's a good point. Because it's expanded your worldview. It's back to, like, the spiral of, like, if you're aware of that or if you go down the path, it's like, oh, I don't... Like, I see that skinny... But anecdotally, like, imagine there's, like, someone in... You know, like, we've been using this rural example because I feel like that's a real...

for people who aren't in like centres of knowledge with the internet is really useful for them imagine you know being able to see that like university is a possibility and not having to be connected with someone to the university you know there are scholarships like it's changed the way we think in that like it has expanded our options but also limited them or narrowed

like honed them in to perhaps a specific thing when we think about political opinions but it's also expanded how we think and that we see that more things are available to us but I think at the same time it's a double edged sword in that we definitely do realise there's greater possibilities and we're almost overwhelmed with choice but at the same time we realise our utter disposability oof

Because if you... I was wondering when this was going to turn, like, really existential. I learned that word in French last week. I didn't know what... I can't say it. Existential. You'll get there. But I couldn't... I had to search out what it was. Wait, wait. Back to Maddie's existential point. Yes.

How disposable we are, yes. Because I think that a lot of labour can be really, really easily outsourced through software, through the internet now. Whereas previously that would have been sourced locally. Yeah, but also it's like that's allowed industry to expand and allowed production to expand. That's very capitalist. But if we're thinking about how it's changed the way you think, like I think if you were...

growing up pre-internet, you being kind of one of the best in your field, in your town, your city, your area, wherever you lived, like that was really... Impressive. Yeah. Just part of your identity. Impressive and yeah, but with the internet now...

You're so much more aware of, you know, the software developer on the other side of the world who is better than you. Equally as a genius. Yeah, like it's more international. Yeah, yeah. I saw... Oh, it's not really at all related. Oh, it is.

It's like, you know when countries interfere? This is a whole different... Yeah, no, please, no, talk about it. There are so many facets to this question. You know when countries interfere? Like, I don't want... Like, an example of, like, in the Middle East, when, like, America interfered. You know, like, things like that. It's like globalisation in that sense is that... I don't really know much about this topic, but, you know. Yeah, globalisation, yeah. Because there's a question on this exam that was, like, is international development aid good?

Because we're being globalised, that's able to happen. How is it used for manipulation as well? For political reasons rather than just humanitarian. Well, I feel like we're going in a rabbit circle. Should we do the next question? Yeah, I think. Okay, which question do you have, Meg? Who asked that question? Do you want to ask a question, Maddie? Oh, actually, can I ask one? Yeah. This one's like a little bit misc. Okay, it's kind of a bit of a change.

And it's very... It's the same thing. Yeah. Okay. Who is the most overrated figure in your discipline? Oh, I think you're eager to talk about this. The reason I ask is because... Do you want to kick us off? Yeah, I just want to, like, talk shit about the people in my... Not, like, people I know, but, like, in psychology and philosophy who I think are so overrated. Okay. Like, okay. Firstly, Adam Smith...

In my political economy? Like... Okay, I'm going to say she's got it. The wealth of nations. Oh my god. You know, there is more to political thinking than some white guy who fucking... He's Scottish. He's Scottish. White. He was white. He was from Glasgow. I'm just talking about us. He was on Caracalli or something like that. Oh, he's old. Well, no, he's dead. Yeah.

no i'm saying still alive 16th century yeah like i just think that like adam smith is so overrated rational thought so overrated the emphasis on self-interest so overrated and every single course i always learn about it and i'm just like really can we retire the idea that this one person is like the forefather of every single economic and political thought that we've ever had as well oh lame

He's... Like, I just feel like we need to have more of a diversity of thinkers. The other one who I really... Sorry, I'm just, like, kind of ranting. Can I just say a quote from him, I think? Yeah. All money is a matter of belief. Why is it about money? Am I just thinking into this? He's an economist. Fuck money, honestly. What?

Oh, I kind of miss that. Yeah, so it makes sense. Anyway, what's his second? Well, he has this huge emphasis on self-interest, which I do think is rational to believe, but just annoys me. I'm sure, Maddie, you find this as well with PPE. Yeah, no, he's definitely hammered on. Hammered. A lot. The second one is like,

There are all these psychologists who I just... Like, hey, John Watson and BF Skinner are an example. Yeah, you know him, right? No, I know him from Sherlock. He's in Sherlock.

What? Sherlock. How do you know him from Sherlock? Sherlock Holmes. John Watson. Who's that? He's like Sherlock's comrade. He's like companion. Oh, I have not watched Sherlock Holmes. 221B. They live together. Oh, that's cute. Yeah, anyway. Is Arthur Conan Doyle an overrated figure in literature? Is that one of the questions? No. No, is it? No. He's the author of Sherlock. Oh, okay. I'm learning so much.

But yeah, there's also like this huge emphasis on like behaviorist psychologists in the field of psychology. And it really shits me because I'm like, every course you learn about it, it's like, yes, they understood how like behavior and learning occurred. But like, can we maybe... What's an example? Okay, so BF Skinner did like these boxes with rats in them. And he learned that like...

I haven't learned that yet in my first year of course. Condition, unconditioned stimulus. It's great, but it just gets like overplayed and I just feel like there are so many more creative ideas that have come out in the last like 100 years or 50 years that are actually provide a much better explanation than these experiments. And it's like all, I also just, I think it's that general issue where I'm just like getting very frustrated that in a lot of my university courses, they only teach about

white male researchers. Well, isn't, like, this is... Okay, this is another thought from my brother, but, like, university is actually quite right-wing. Do you think so? Yes. Like, the actual... This is what he's... I don't know. I've thought about it a bit, but, like, the actual, like... It's a huge structure. Of course it's right-wing, you know what I mean? Like, the actual... What do you mean by right-wing, though? Like, he's a capitalist or...? No, I think, like, I don't know. This is...

like just random brain thoughts but like the the not the teaching because i'm doing a virus science that obviously is the right wing but like um the actual like teaching style i don't know i'll have to do some more research it's a conservative teaching yeah yeah it's like yeah and like we're learning about yeah we're literally it's very repetitive and like it's structured it's so structured and it's all based on like ideas of like 50 70

even hundreds of years ago that haven't been corrected, haven't been changed, even when they've been proven to be incorrect, even when better explanations are offered. And a lot of these people are very, like, it's very conservative. They're all very traditional figures. I do think the teaching is quite conservative in that I don't think they've adapted to the needs of society and the kind of job market that we're entering because I think that...

Universities are still somewhat living in the past where people were qualified with a certain skill and they used that skill in their career which really carried them through a lifetime. One career, yeah. We're going to have a lot of different careers and in order to stay up to date and...

and be kind of climb the ranks in whichever workforce you're in it does require lifelong learning and I don't think that universities have adapted to that and I think they're conservative in that sense but to go back to the original question thank you for letting me always bring this back sorry I was like you were captivated by that I was like yes

of who is an overrated person in your discipline and I think you'll agree with me on this Gemma because we both do PPE economics is really really outdated oh my god yeah so they still it's like my mum was showing me some of her stuff it's like rational man, rational economic man self interest that's it, it's very exclusionary I know that

Oh God. No, you're absolutely right. And they teach these same models thinking that they've adapted. It's like these models were created like 50 years ago. I think a really, a really outdated concept that stands out to me so much in economics is that when it comes to environment, um, there was, um, the kind of,

traditional response to that was like, oh, well, the free market, when a resource is overused and overconsumed, the free market will naturally redirect us to other sources of production. It doesn't understand the idea of exhaustion of a source. And you're just kind of sitting there like, well, yes, our coal industry

Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, interesting. Or the other idea, it's like, oh, yeah, if we lose jobs in one place, they'll be created elsewhere. Oh, a just transition. Yeah, everything always reaches an equilibrium again. But then you would use that argument in favour of free trade. Yeah. Yeah. But wait, what do you mean by that? I feel like you're using it as a negative argument right now. Well, what I'm saying is that it's not true. Like, especially in isolated industries or in an isolated community like Australia where there are

Like, it suggests that when people lose jobs in one area, new jobs are always created elsewhere. So say we shut down a coal plantation... That's like their skill set. That's what you were saying about their skill set. You know, 45-year-old skillset. They only have, like, a certain skill set. They can't change that. It's incorrect.

right-wing economics is very much like the market fixes everything itself and those new industries, new avenues for disenfranchised people will be forced to open and this is where you come to that big cleavage between left and right-wing economics because when you get

on the left wing it says no, no, no, you need the government at that point to step in and offer opportunities for upskilling or reskilling so that people can have greater labor migration.

And so I think a really overrated person in the field of economics would be Gregory Mancu. Wait, wait, wait. Gregory Mancu? Gregory Mancu, yeah. I've never heard of him before. He wrote... We didn't do macroeconomics in the same year, but he wrote the textbook that I used for macro. Oh. Yeah.

I didn't use a textbook because I was just like, this is all pretty simple. Yeah, no, that's fair. I received it for free. Definitely not something that I would have paid money for. No. Also, I ask anyone who is also at the ANU, when you watch an economics lecture, watch every single lecture, you will never see a picture of a woman. Dana. Oh.

Jane is a lecturer, but I'm saying in the slides, you'll never see a picture of a woman. It's all... I don't know. I keep going back to this very feminist critique. It always goes back to gender. You know how in economics... Always goes back to gender. In economics, when they thought of the concept of GDP, they did try to work out how to include domestic labour into that equation, but they were like, no, it's too hard to measure labour.

So they just didn't do it. We're too intricate. We're too distinct. And they were like, maybe we could ask, like, I don't know, someone who understands this. And they're like, no.

No. We won't ask a woman. Their opinion would be too hysterical. Too dramatic. They wouldn't get it. They can't even read. Yes. When they're not scientific. Yeah, exactly. They're just cleaners. All the academic cleaners in the kitchen. Yeah, sad. Speaking of which, we probably need to clean the kitchen or something. Oh, God. No, it's anti-feminist.

yeah to clean the kitchen in this room we are surrounded by the matriarchy we are oh you really are there's literally like nude it always comes down to gender i'm wearing like naked woman earrings key message in this fight but just comes down to gender i hope you're listening and it's over our oh that's really good yeah congratulations all right

Next question. Next question. All right. I asked that question. Maddie, your go. Oh, okay. So there was the... Was it not your go, Meg? No, I had that. No. It is definitely my turn. Maddie wants to go. She's kicking at the heels. There were a few questions. So we could do the... I did it around the 400. ...music question.

Oh, yeah. Oh, the... Oh, no, the... Yeah, the music one or the deaf versus blind community or... I feel like we can't really talk on that because none of us are deaf or blind. That's very true. We're a third party. Yeah. Well, that's a question.

But that's not a question on the list. I know exactly what question you're going to ask. What's the question? The question is, like, can we make commentary on, like... Things. Well, the government fucking does. None of them are blind as F, are they? I... You know? Some of them might be. I do think that they have advisors. Okay, I thought of that while I was... I wish the government

They're not deaf or blind. Yes, what they call people that stand on behalf of people. Advocates. I found a good psychology question on the list. There is evidence that people give more to charity when asked by someone wearing a designer label. What should we make of this? Whoa!

What do you mean? Like Gucci. Are they like saying that people with, I would immediately jump to you, are they saying that people with designer labels are more trustworthy? You know what I mean? Good. But why are they more trustworthy? Because they're rich. Yeah. People like have this stigma about. And is it like, oh, well, this rich person is asking me to give money to charity. So they probably give money to charity. Yeah. And that's an indication of wealth. And I want to seem wealthy. And I want to seem wealthy. Yeah. And I want more tax deductions. Yeah.

I think Meg's point is really good. It's like if we see someone wearing nice clothes, we trust them. We believe that they'll be honest with our money. It's like our whole values in Australia and Western society are based on like success and money. So many aspects.

like that kind of concept, I feel like you can extrapolate to so many different aspects of life. It's kind of the same idea that underpins the whole it's not creepy if they're hot. Oh, yeah. Or attractive people do better in job interviews. Yeah. There was a study in psychology. I just learned that last week, actually. Yeah, attractive people do better in job interviews. Yeah, and if you like...

phone, you know, video call attractive person, you trust them more because they're attractive. Yeah, so a designer label could be seen as attractive like more culturally because it's like, yes, an indication of wealth. So beauty is such a big thing in our society. There was this Netflix show that I watched earlier this year called The Serpent and it was about this guy that like murdered a bunch of backpackers in like the Southeast Asia. It wasn't that he was hot, it was that he was a fellow...

And I feel like when you're traveling. So you're in that group identity. You are more inclined to trust a fellow foreigner than you are a local person. But that's actually, I just had a thought. Apparently in Vietnam, in Saigon. This is such a tangent.

No, I mean, in Vietnam and Saigon, this is no, in any touristy area in like Southeast Asia or wherever, the touristy area is the one where people get drink spiked. It's not the local area because it's always the touristy area because people are like, oh, they're fucking tourists. Like,

They're dumbass people. They're rich, but they're so unaware of the culture around them at the moment. But that's interesting because this is such a designer clothes. Like maybe, maybe if you've got someone in designer clothes asking you to give money, it feels less like they're begging for money. Oh, oh my God. Cause it's less like they don't need it, but like, oh my God, that's so true. That means it's like the rich people always own the business. You know what I mean? They're giving it to someone rich.

I don't know if that makes sense. But no, I do. I do know what you mean. I was also going to say it's an idea of in-groups and out-groups. So people who are wearing designer labels form this kind of in-group that A, you also want to be a part of. Yeah, you want to be a part of that in-group. You want to be rich. It's a whole Western society wanting to be rich again. And a way that you can seem like you're part of the in-group is by donating. That's firstly the social pretense of wanting to appear wealthy.

But secondly, it's the thing of, like, I could be this person if I gave more generously. Like, I'm going to look like this individual if I give more generously. Like a very giving, like, generous... Yeah. Or if this is an attribute that rich people give, I'm going to give and then I'll be wealthy, like, or, you know, I'll attract people. That's rude. Not rude, but it's, like, the people... It's not the people who are being the... What do you call it? The advocates for these charities. It's not their fault, but, like...

They're calling on individuals like us who are definitely not rich people. There are billionaires that could donate 1,000 times what we could donate. But they call upon individuals like us. You see people in World Vision in the supermarket in Civic. And they're calling on people like us. Should there be a maximum income? Oh, no, no. Okay, I just had a really good idea. Oh, my God. Okay.

Another facet, if they're wearing designer labels, it makes the company look more trustworthy because it makes them look more professional. It makes them look like they know how to spend their money more. It makes them look more capable because if their employees or the people who are asking for money look like those that are a symbol of wealth and a symbol of doing well, you might think like, are they actually know...

because if this rich person is supporting them, a rich person isn't going to waste their money. But then I would think, like, if I saw someone working for, like...

I don't know, what's a good... World vision. Yeah, like, and they were wearing designer clothes, I'd be like, wow, fast fashion. Yeah. Are these clothes made sustainable? I'd actually trust someone who's wearing, like, not... Like, who is still clean, but who is wearing, like, ethically made clothes. Yeah. Or, like, second-hand clothes. Because I'd be like, oh, my God, they actually care, like, you know, about fast... Not this is about fast fashion, but, you know, about, like, that's still in... What's the word? Like, less economically developed countries. You know? Mm-hmm.

I think it's all about appearances and what appearance of the company attracts, like, what you're attracted to. What the audience is of the company's advertising. If you want a company that you think is trustworthy or, like, if you want one that seems ethical, like, how do you navigate that in terms of presenting a brand? What was the question again? Sorry. Oh, I completely forgot. What was the question again? Sorry, Maddie. We went on a big...

No, no, that's fine. It wasn't one that I initially kind of flagged to do, but then it popped up and I thought, oh, that's a bit of psychology. It was. It is. Yes. No, it was why are we more likely to donate to charity than we are by people wearing designer clothes. Oh, that does relate to what we're saying. I thought we were on a complete tangent, but we are on the right track. We are.

We still do with charity. We were kind of. Yeah, but I think that's a really interesting one. When was the last time you guys donated to charity?

I used to do it like monthly. They conned me into doing a monthly thing to the Wilderness Society. Oh, I knew you were going to say the Wilderness Society. They fucking conned me. And they were like, I was like, they might do $5. I was like, yeah. And then he didn't say it was $5 more than what I was paying. So I paid $15. And I was like, and then I rang up and I cancelled. I had to ring up because I couldn't just do it online. And then they made you feel bad? Yes, probably. I can't. And I was like, I can't afford it. I'm a student. Like, I always use that though. Because I'm like,

I'm a student. When Darwin went into the snap lockdown when I was home and the Fringe Comedy Festival that was the week after got preemptively cancelled and they gave you the offer to donate the money from your tickets.

to charity and my friend bought like $300 worth of tickets and she was like yeah yeah I'll donate it and then a couple of days later her car broke down and so she emailed them I need that money back fair enough no

honestly you retract my joke they're like sorry like a struggling artist has already spent their life I've decided that I'm really I want to self interest yes Adam Smith maybe he's right oh fuck I remember the one that really gets me is Doctors Without Borders I've heard that is that Medi- Medi- Sans Frontier I don't speak French yeah it's because it's Medi- Sans Frontier no it's Medi- Sans Frontier okay

I think medicine on the front yeah that's it um Maddie's like I don't know

She'll say it in Chinese and I'll say it in Russian. Yeah, I'll say it in Russian, you say it in Arabic, she'll say it in Chinese. We love that. And we can just all show off. I feel like this could really lead well into the other question. Oh yeah, but can I just go through that one? Yeah, but I just want to say, if you haven't want to donate, you should definitely donate to Doctors Without Borders because their ad campaign videos get me every fucking time. I literally will watch them if I want to. This is an advertisement channel. I know, I know, I know. This is a podcast. Okay.

sponsor me okay next sponsor me from us your question what about the happy one or the multi or the multi yeah that one's good I feel like that could segue well from guys we're only like 36 minutes in we have heaps of time well we're definitely getting into all souls wait yeah all souls what's all souls this is a college that's the college oh Gemma I don't think

I don't even know what it's called. I'm obviously not fucking getting it. No, you're not. Hang on, I need to find it. No, the question was... Does multilingualism mean multiple identities? Boom. Boom. And I think... Well, I said that because... Well, we all speak different languages. Yeah. And definitely being in a different country... Yeah. Like, you can't take on... Like, it was French. You, like, take on the accent. It's like the whole vibe. You need the accent. Otherwise, you can't... If you speak French without the accent...

So why is the accent important? You're not speaking French. Because it's like, you don't, like, you can't. Yeah, they're snobby. You can't. If you don't speak the accent, you're not, it's like, what the fuck is this person doing? They're like, je suis Megan. Like, you don't say that. Je suis Megan. Like, you just say it, like, nicely. That's part of the identity. Yeah, it's part of the identity. Exactly. Exactly.

Did you hear that? What was that? No, but this morning there was actually like 1,400 caroling. Oh, there was. Yeah, it was caroling. Did you even go to that? I did, yes. And Jazz was asleep. I was like, surely Jazz is going to wake up. I don't know. There's one there. There's one every northeast, southwest. Never a toogie wee peek.

Oh, very good. But I remember when I used to speak, when I was in Russia, I would, like, my Russian was so Australian. So I'd be like, I would just use, like, I would just say, I speak Russian, and Russian says, like, what you may say is, я говорю по-русски.

That sounds Russian to me. Yeah, but I would say, Yeah, but you don't know until you go over there because I learned French before I went over and I was like so Australian. But when I went over, I was like, fuck, why am I saying this? So are you both saying that the different identity would come from the different accents?

I feel like it's indicative of the different identity you step into when you go to that culture. But language is literally interconnected with identity. I did see New 12 and I stick by it. How? You've got to explain it. Okay, I didn't go that well in English, but I can try to explain it.

No, it's just like the words we use, the syntax, the semantics, the meaning behind everything we say. Like Aussies, we shorten things and that in its way, it's like we say smoko and we say servo or whatever. And that in its way is like we're lazy. We are. We're lazy and we're like... Or casual. Yeah, casual and lazy, I think. In a very generalised, stereotypical way. But like...

Compared to, like, yeah, French, where it's, like... Eloquent. Yeah, like, it sounds beautiful. And, like, all these, like, you say these sayings, like, these phrases, and because you say these, you know, like, metaphors, you sound...

Yeah, eloquent. More like fancy. And maybe that's a part of... I feel like it is... You do have different identities because it's like what you... The language really shows what people value in that culture. And even the way of like forming sentences. I also feel like when you step into a different culture and you speak a different language, you start to identify with different people. And just by inherent nature, you'd start to identify with people of different backgrounds and of different like cultural values. Are you okay, Maddie? You're a bit uncomfortable. I'm getting a bit hot.

Oh, me too. We should turn the heater down. Maggie, you're close. We're sitting next to the heater, guys. No, but actually, that's a weird example because, like, in the Arab world, it's beauty for women is very big. Like, it's like, well, like, to be fair, like,

there isn't much natural like outdoorsy stuff which is what I would usually be into so that even like the in when I was over there I like obviously I don't actually do like anyone else and stuff but I like I would love and like everyone vibed getting their nails and everyone vibed having their hair and makeup really nice I can actually do this

And I don't, like, in Australia, I love to go in the outdoors and I love to be, you know, as you know, like, all this sporty stuff. Then when I was in Jordan, I was like, oh, I can, like, I can't do that because there's no option to do that. I'll go to their culture and I'll do my hair. And it was just a gateway into accessing that. Yeah, I know. It was just like... You feel more immersed in it and therefore you feel more like... Yeah. All right, Maddie actually lived in China for a while, so let's talk about her to her. So we've all lived in the countries that we...

We speak a language of. So I feel like it's kind of difficult because then when you're back in Australia, I have not spoken Russian to anyone for about a year. It's so hard because the context around you is Australian. No one speaks Russian here. I feel like when I first lived in China and I didn't speak good Chinese at this point and the job that I had in Guangzhou back in 2017...

I was the only foreigner there and something that I really struggled with linguistically was when people would ask me to do things in Chinese and the requests sound

much more direct in Chinese than they do in English because in English we tend There's no please or thank you isn't it? Yeah you don't use please and thank you as often and Chinese doesn't have as many filler words Oh yes the fillers like yeah yeah May you please May we really and especially women we love to hedge our language I'm really sorry I'm sorry to bother you but if you have time could you maybe possibly please do this if you've got the chance yeah

Rather like, do this. But something I also really thought about. And just on the accent topic quickly with like Chinese, I think it's a whole...

different ball game there because it's a tonal language so it's kind of like if you don't have somewhat of a good accent you're completely like you actually don't you're misunderstood yeah you can't speak it so being adopting the language means that like you do have a different identity because otherwise you can't communicate with people so it's like you have to is it because you can't speak the language without having the accent

Basically the language... Or, yeah, at least having... I think you have less flexibility with your pronunciation when it's a tonal language. And then you think, what do they think? Like, you know what I mean? Like, what do French people think when we speak Aussie French? Like, do they like... Oh, when they hear Australian English. Yeah, but I suppose they would just think of it, they could understand it, like, what the fuck is this? But actually, can I say this about what you were saying, like, when you go to France or when I was in, like, Russia and, you know, the accent was such a huge part.

perhaps people who are speaking French or people who are speaking Russian who come to Australia

are equally like, oh my god, I feel like I can't actually get into this culture because the Aussies have such a strange accent. That's why it's so important to travel and understand that because we all understand. If a French, if like a, you know, whoever, like an international person came to Australia, it would be like, oh, that's so, like they're speaking English, like that's amazing, you know. But they're like, oh, but I can't understand Aussies. I often got that was like when I was in Russia, like people couldn't understand my English.

like sometimes even though they spoke English it was American English and then I'd be there like heavy on the vowels as much as the dialect interesting nasal yeah

Do you find, because whenever I go back to Queensland, my Australian accent just like... That's what, like, no, I noticed when my brother went to Queensland, when he came back, his accent was so Queensland. I was like, get out. Did you notice that when we were in Queensland? Was my accent stronger or did you not really notice? I didn't notice, no. Well, you're going to say, Maddie, you had a point. I saw you opening your mouth. Oh, another thing I wanted... Back down. Yes. Back down. Today.

To the ground. Drop it low. No, another thing that I find really interesting about Chinese, particularly now that we're having a huge conversation about pronouns, is that in spoken Chinese, there is no differentiation between men and women. Everyone is ta. Ta.

Wait, is that you or is that he, she? He, she. Oh, really? That is cool because Arabic is the complete opposite of Russian. Yeah, everyone is ta. It's only when you write and you want to say ta, blah, blah, blah, as in a woman, that you use a different, you use a female radical. Yeah.

Interestingly, when you use the ta character for a man, it's not a male radical. It is the person radical because man is the default human. And when you say they in Chinese... Wait, is man the default human in Chinese? Oh, in general. In general, because in Chinese, what's the default human? Is it person?

Like, you know what I mean? If you were referring to, like, what's that object over there? So say it's a chair. Would you say that most objects are male? Or it. Or it. Or it. Oh, it's so good! Chinese is not gendered, but the it is also ta. Oh. Yeah, but a different character. That's interesting, because, like...

But also you don't use that word that often in Chinese because Chinese doesn't... You don't really repeat the subject after it's been mentioned for the first time. Yeah, that's the same as Arabic. So that doesn't really arise. But when you want to say like they and you use the ta character plus the character that indicates like the plurality, you use the male ta character. And something...

as well words like jealousy in Chinese, that has a female radical.

And I think that's interesting. So back to cultural identity, if that shapes the way that you think about gender. But English, yeah, that's good. That's actually been researched quite a lot, is like the genders of certain nouns. Based on how language shapes your perspective. Because English doesn't have genders, does it? Not really. You say like vehicles are she's. You know, like in that sense. No, but isn't like...

You know, like... That lamp over there, I'm still going to need a lamp. It doesn't change. It's not her... It's like in Italian, like, lamp might be feminine. Yeah, in French. Yeah, or, like, whatever. I don't know, like, the radical, whatever. Yeah. But, like, English doesn't have it, but then English, I feel like every English-speaking country, there's definitely gender issues. Yeah. But I searched up what are the matriarch... I remember this. What are the matriarchies in, like, the world? Yeah. And I can't remember, but there was one in, like...

kind of China area. I just remember that. Somewhere there, there was like a huge matriarchy society. Yeah. There's one in East Africa as well. Yeah. Like, it's interesting. It'd be really cool as a psych, kind of talking about psychology, like, and linguistics and the intersection between linguistics and even sociology, like doing a triple discipline on this topic. It's always, always heaps of fun, but,

Like, it would be really, really interesting to think about perspectives on gender and respect around gender and gender hierarchy based on how language treats it, which kind of comes into cultural identity. Oh, yeah. It's so interconnected. Yeah, it's so interconnected. Like, the language you use is, like we were talking about with the deaf-blind thing, language is primarily your main mode of communication. And it becomes almost, like, unconscious and implicit. So if your language is treating a gender...

in a certain way, even just in its semantics. How does that translate? Or where did that come from? Like in Russian, it's like, oh my God, it's just like everything is gendered.

everything is gendered if i touch an object it's a female object now like they is a in arabic it's they she or they yeah but the distinction between genders is so much stronger yeah but how would you if you were like on like what's the word non-binary yeah he couldn't learning other languages that's just another thing how would you become you wouldn't have an identity in another language because you're not you're not a you're not a that you're not like a or in chinese yes but in arabic and russian

You're not a they. You can't be a they. You can't be plural. You can't be. You can't. That's really hard for our growing world though. Because how are people who are non-binary or... How does their identity fit in with their linguistic background? It's very historical. Languages are very historical. You would definitely get into Oxford College with that response. That was funny. That was so fucking true. Was it? I'm going to quote myself.

Yeah, that was really interesting. I did not even think about that. I have to re-listen to this because I forgot what I was saying. Oh, yeah. Anytime you need a bit of a positivity into it. I am a genius. Yeah, I forgot. How about we just send this to Oxford and be like, here you go. What are your thoughts? Yeah. We would like some constructive criticism. Three PhDs, please. Funded fully. One for each of us. And I would like to work on...

I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I would do climate change. It's too big. What would you... Okay, wait. Kind of an inter... Like, a bit of a movement away. What would you do your PhD on if you could in the next five years? Maybe fires in Australia. Something to do with bushfires. Something local, though. Yeah. What would you do your PhD on? Or gender. That's so... Gender? Yeah.

It's so hard to narrow down. I think I'm really interested in social media and democracy, but I'm also really interested in the Australia-China space. Is the Belt and Road a new form of imperialism? I don't know what that means. I would do my PhD on false memories and the prevalence of false memories. Is there such thing as a true memory? No, there absolutely is not.

There is absolutely no... Okay, this is too much. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Psychology, I could not do my... It's just sociology and psychology. I would just... My brain would just go... How is it, as a psychology student, do

Do you find it hard to navigate the duality of kind of having that elevated self-awareness of why you think the way that you do and what kind of like thinking traps you're susceptible to and at the same time still being susceptible to them? You know what? It really sucks because you would think, so this is the thing with unconscious processes.

being aware of them doesn't actually do anything. So I have this issue all the time. Is it like involuntary? Yeah, it's involuntary. Absolutely. I get stuck in thinking traps all the time. And I know why they occur. I know it's really crazy because I'll go into my therapist's office and she'll be like... Yeah, that's true. They tell you why it happens, but you can't... But I'm like, I already know. She'll be like, oh, we should do this. And I'm like, yeah, but the other day she was like, we should do DET. And I was a dialectical emotional therapy. And I was like...

oh, but I know that it has this downside and it's actually not going to work for me because I know that this is an issue with it and actually I didn't have this background. So talking about it will actually be worse for me. And she's really... But it's very, that's very specific. That's like a one line thing. You know what I mean? Like every individual...

Yeah, or intrusive thoughts as well. I'm like, I know exactly why I'm getting intrusive thoughts. I know exactly... I know all the process behind it, but, like, I still get them. It's a two-edged sword again. Yeah, it kind of sucks. Yeah. Or, like, my OCD as well. That's, like, the whole thing about... I always... I think this all the time, and I know it's quite, like... I would say it's not privilege, but just, like, privilege in the fact that I have...

We all have quite big brains, you know? Big brains. Big brains. Maddie has a tiny head though, so... Really? I feel like I have a big head. Medium head, I would say. Like, mine's pretty big. Yours is big, Gemma, yeah. I have a fat head. I don't know. My parents used to call me a square... I used to have a square head. My parents used to...

Tease me. Wait, wait, what was the privilege thing? It's like, would you rather, this is, I don't think this is a very ethical question, so we wouldn't be on that question on that board exam. But like, would you rather be, I think I've said this a lot. Oh my God, we've talked about this. Intelligent and have mental health anxiety issues, overthinking issues, or dumb and not, because you, and not even think about it, because you're dumb and you won't think about it. Don't soften your words, man.

Okay, would you rather be smart and have to deal with, like, fucked thinking or would you rather be dumb and not have to think about it? But then also if you're dumb, you get susceptible to capitalism and you get to, you work for nothing and you work hard for nothing. No, but that's not true. Yeah, but, no, but that's like lots of people, yes it is in census. Yeah, in census. In lots of cases, people don't know what's out there. Meg's getting very, her eyes.

is like manic right now she's like they don't know what's out there some people just don't know what's out there they haven't had that they should go on the internet access and they or they haven't and they don't know what they can literally like do things they can do what they want for so much easier they can have such a good life but they haven't seen it and like they're working so hard I don't know it really depends because like I had this like awful experience at the start of the year

It changes where I'm like, it's so fucked, but it's like, I know that being an intelligent person means that like it comes with so much, like the amount of time I'm in my own head is like absolutely sickening. Sometimes I just wish that I could just like pull out my mind and like put it on a table so I could just like be this like little figure that just doesn't think about stuff. Does not thinking about stuff necessarily mean that you're not intelligent or is it just that you're better able to silence your thoughts? I don't know. Meditation, baby.

Maybe if you just meditate heaps. That means you, like... If I didn't... If I didn't even have to think about meditating and my thoughts just, like, went through. It's just, like, guys. I feel like they just don't think... So guys are dumb. Men don't think. No, but they're not dumb. Okay, yeah, that's actually... Maybe emotionally. The intelligence... I don't know what... Like, internal intelligence. Every man I've ever known has been a little bit stupid. Yeah, but they just, like, don't... They don't care. It's more... Like...

It's not like they don't care in a bad way. They just don't care. Like, they just, like, let things flow. I don't think that's true, though. I don't think that's true. I don't know. Lots of... I don't know. Maybe a lot of... I feel like there are some that I've met who are very... But this is more about, like, anxiousness rather than intelligence, you know? Okay, we're... Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Maddie, answer the... Sorry, Meg. I didn't mean to disagree with you. No. I think... I think that...

Being of a higher intelligence naturally makes you have a greater degree of existential awareness. Oh, yes.

Can make you more depressed. But I think that at the same time, I think it also allows you to have maybe richer experiences, form deeper connections. And I think the downside of that is that the things that you feel to perhaps a more like heightened extreme in a good way that you might get to feel, um, at an above average level to, um,

Um, someone that is like uninclined to thinking in deeper ways. Um, and you appreciate the same time it comes with feeling the lows more acutely. So it just depends whether you want to kind of have, um,

consistency and a more plateaued stable emotional life but that's like shit because like it's all relative like if we're happy it means we've had to have sad times you know absolutely but yeah there was another question how do we how can we know if we are happy all right i might just might have to move on to that in the next segment another point um i just feel so bad like why

I wish everyone, like, you know, do you ever feel so bad about, like, people, like, why aren't they, you know, they could do so many things. I don't know, I just feel like... You've got guilt. Yeah, like, I just want everyone to be, like, a second... It sounds like you're judging them through your metric, though. Maybe they are happy doing that. Yeah, I know, that's a good point. That's a very good point. But it's like...

Yeah, that's a very good point, actually. But it's beautiful that you recognise their potential and you're like, if I had that potential, this is what I would do with it. Yeah, but everyone's brains are wide different, I suppose. Maybe they don't want that. It's like my cousins. I love them to bits, but they want very different things to me. Yeah, that's a very good point. Yeah, I feel like when I was younger, I would often be like, oh, don't they see? We are the most... Each individual is their own most important person. Yeah, absolutely.

thank you all for listening we realized maddie just realized that we have to go fucking clean up the kitchen ask the question let's oh we have one more question to leave with you yeah here's a good question for you let me just find we banish the poet who get who has to clean the kitchen so the first one is how do you know whether you are happy

big one I really wish we'd answered that maybe we can do a part two okay next time yeah yeah who's listening Maddie's funny one is I already said it should we banish the poets

Yes. Have a think. Oh, my God. Remember when I was dating my... Oh, I know Meg hates it. I'm talking about men at the moment, but like... Disgusting. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. He used to write me poems that I literally wouldn't want to fucking throw up. It was like, I saw this really funny meme the other day. It was like, open to Snapchat expecting it to be a dick pic, but it was a poem which is somehow so much worse. And I was like... I was like, yeah, that's so true. Anyhow, some beautiful questions coming out of this. I hope...

as you were listening you kind of got to think about them as well i think it's a really good like kind of mental exercise like we were really in this moment just like discussing things you know all that worry about like whether the internet is like fucking with our cognition and it all will be okay yeah if you just answer some of these questions no need to overthink if you ever think it's okay we all do it okay maddie's the existentialist what i'm the mediator and meg is the passionate one

I'm an Aquarius. I'm an Aquarius. I'm a Pisces. We're all water babies. No, isn't Aquarius... Get coaster. Not water. Aquarius. It's Aquarius. It's like Aquarian. It's Aquarian. It's not an Aquarian. It's an air sign. It has Aquarius.

It's Aquarius. We're a water bearer, but we're an air sign. Air sign, yes. No, that is absolutely... Yes, water bearer, air sign. You're telling me that cancer is a water sign, but Aquarius is not a water sign. Yes, I am. Fuck that. I'll show you. Pisces...

Anyhow, I forgot we were recording. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed our beautiful guests. They mean so much to me and I think they're amazing. So I really appreciate that they came on. Thank you for having us. No, it's okay. Follow me on LinkedIn. Oh, no. I'll put it in the bio. I'm just kidding. Follow you on Strava. Strava, yes. That's a good one. LinkedIn Strava. And follow me on Instagram at 20psychologypodcast.

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