230. The psychology of flirting
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Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here as we, of course, break down, dive into the psychology of your 20s. Something that I think comes up a lot when we think about love, crushes, dating, romance and

is this like behavioral concept, this behavioral idea of flirting. And it feels kind of strange to be doing an entire episode on flirting because I don't know, I feel like I'm in this long-term relationship. Like I don't really think about it as much anymore, but when you are single or even when you are in a long-term relationship and you want to kind of bring a little bit of passion back into things, flirting is super valuable. And it's also this idea that is closely aligned with conversations

confidence, romantic confidence with attraction. I feel like flirting is honestly just so much fun. You don't know where it's going to take you. It can bring you so much power and self-esteem. It puts you kind of in the driver's seat of a relationship, but it's not always so easy to do and not all of us

quite the expert. So today I thought I would bring someone on to discuss the unique psychology of flirting and I thought I would bring on the literal empath.

expert, a flirting coach, Benjamin Cumrus. Thank you so much for joining us. Hello. Thank you so much for having me on the show today. I am thrilled and delighted to talk about my favorite thing in the world, which is flirting. I'm actually so excited as well. I was like, this is just perfect because it is such like a, I don't know, it's like something that people don't think about all that often, but then when you kind of have it down pat, I'm sure it like opens up.

So many doors. Before we jump into it, can you just like briefly introduce yourself, what you do, who you are, any fun facts that you want to include? Yeah.

Yes, my name is Benjamin. I am the floor coach and Gay Libra self-proclaimed and I got into this a couple of years ago. I had a whole nine to five before I got myself or found myself discovering coaching. I was a city planner for a long, long time for over 10 years. That's what I went to school for more formally. And then when I was exploring a career change, as I think a lot of us were

Contemplating many things during lockdown and during the pandemic, having a lot of time to ourselves. I was living by myself and had all of this time just to like actually be instead of doing right going, just forcing myself to always be busy.

That really wasn't an option. And I knew I had to make some serious life changes, some big upheavals. And a conversation with a friend changed everything. I was just talking to him like I...

what am I going to do? Like, I, what do I do with my life? I was in my mid thirties then I'm 38 now. And he was like, what, what about coaching? What, just what about coaching? I had no idea what that was. I had never considered that before. I had like these ideas in my head. If you've seen movies or TV shows with life coaches, you know, they kind of get played up as a stereotype or like the football coach, something like that. But yeah,

Me as a coach, I don't know. But for the first time in a really long time, he recommended a program to me. And within the week, I was signed up and enrolled. And I explored coaching before I quit my job and then started my business. And

was posting online, trying all kinds of different things. And the video that really changed everything was a video about flirting. And that's when the stars aligned, everything clicked, and I have not turned back since. And that was about a year and a half ago when I really started creating content and talking about flirting. And

becoming, evolving into the flirt coach, which is how I show up today. Oh my gosh. I love it. And I will say like, you bring such like this, like, like it's beautiful energy to this recording where I'm like, yeah, I get why you're an expert in this. And it's so, it's so funny. You being like, Oh, the, the idea of like a coach. And I always think of like hitch, like the, what's the actor in that? Will Smith. Will Smith. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

But you're very, very different, which I appreciate. Thanks for giving us that little timeline. Okay, I'm going to start with such a simple question. When I started, I was like, I thought this would be a great introductory question. I was like, this is such a simple question. And then I started thinking about it myself. And I was like, actually, this is quite complicated. So to begin, what actually kind of defines or qualifies as flirting?

Yeah, so I have a definition that I think is unconventional that maybe you all haven't heard before. But my just like concise definition of flirting is that the flirt is the genuine expression of interest without expectation in the present moment.

And I talk about the flirt as being all about connection. For me, that's the sole purpose of the flirt. It doesn't come in with these angles or these intentions, right? You're just trying to get the phone number or you're coming right away with a physical compliment, something like that. I really try and always bring it back to connection. As I see, that's been a huge part of

my work even as a city planner where I was working in transportation and connectivity and sidewalks and things like that. Connection in a different way. And I'm still continuing with that theme now as the floor coach, just hoping and hoping to bring more connection into people's lives. I hope to inspire them to, yeah, just to express themselves, to put themselves out there, to build confidence. Yeah, that's,

That's what I hope every time I post and talk about flirting. So that's my sort of clean, clear definition of flirting, but it is ultimately always, always, always about connection. Yeah, I like that. So this kind of leads to my next question. Does it always have to indicate romantic or even sexual interest? Or is it just kind of going to be playful, platonic?

Yes. Yes. So when it comes to connection, I think you have three varieties of connection, platonic, platonic connections, romantic connections, and the connection you have with yourself. And you're going to explore all of them in the flirt. It's interesting.

I know sometimes I feel like I don't have the juiciest, ripest answer of the flirt is this sort of salacious, overt expression of sexual or romantic interest. It can be. There's a time and a place for that. Certainly if you're in a relationship and you're – yeah, the flirt can help keep some of that aspect of a relationship alive. And even when you're dating, flirting in the bedroom, something like that.

Love it. But when you're on a first date, you're with someone you don't know, or you see someone at a party, a networking event, out running errands, you don't even know their name. That can never be where you start. It has to start first with connection. So the flirt has many varieties and many forms, but it's ultimately about exploring those connections platonically, romantically, and with the self. And

Yeah. Depending on the actual connection, then it can take many different forms. I'm so interested in this. How do you flirt with yourself? What does that entail? Oh, so it's like how you are showing up to the flirt. Because I am, part of my story is a lifelong introvert. I still am introverted in many ways. I've had

social anxiety my entire life. So just making connections, let alone flirting hasn't been easy, but so much about the flirt is how you show up and what's going on in your mind. Are you judging yourself? Are you being critical of yourself? Are you rejecting yourself? Are you bringing past stories and experiences into the flirt? So the connection with the self as it's related to flirting is about how you are

are showing up because you are a critical part of the flirt. Okay. I kind of get that now. I'm like, okay, so the relationship, like how you kind of flirt with yourself is by, I mean, guessing like flirting with others, but by doing that, it brings a sense of confidence and it brings a sense of empowerment that maybe you previously don't have. Like I'm showing up to this experience. I'm going to just give it a go. I'm going to just put myself out there.

And like a previous version of myself may have been worried about rejection, but this version of myself that I want to create is not someone who does. Is that kind of what it's like? Yeah, it can very much be that. And I think like,

for everyone listening is like some other ways to flirt with yourself are right to wear something that really makes you feel good a favorite color you're playing with your style your makeup your hair could be like it could be flirting with your with your positive self-talk self-talk or your affirmations you could even take it in the direction of like you're flirting with new habits yeah flirting with a new I don't know cooking class or something like that yeah so there's lots of ways to then open up the flirt and think of it

yeah, bring it into kind of all aspects of your life. But it's,

I love it as a tool for self-discovery and just to help people get to know themselves better. And so when you're showing up to the flirt, it's like, what are those thoughts? It's like, is it I'm too weird or I'm too awkward or I don't look good enough? Or like, what is it that's happening? Or maybe you're feeling super, super good. You're like, I got this. You have like your opening line or your pickup line or something like that. So it's ultimately, I think, a great way

build self-awareness around how you like to connect. And with that self-awareness, you can...

Then you can take action on what's happening, what's coming up, what thoughts are you having and why. So I feel like some people are definitely more flirtatious than others. Do you think that comes down to personality or does it just come down to sheer confidence? Like a sheer willingness or not even willingness, just an ability to potentially be rejected or to be...

feel embarrassed or whatever it is. Like, do you think it's personality? Do you think it's confidence? What really makes some people more tapped into the flirt as you call it?

Yeah, that's a good question. I think I think everyone has an inner flirt. And when it comes to, yeah, you see people that seem like they just have this natural flirt confidence about them. I think sometimes it could be more innate, you know, if it's someone that is more extroverted, if it's someone that is totally cool and loves receiving attention, because that's part of the flirt too, is you're giving attention energy.

to someone else sharing that, but then looking to receive it back. So some people love, they love giving a compliment because they know they're gonna get some attention back. That could be part of it. Some people have humor that just lends itself more to that kind of in the moment, right? They're not so much in their heads, but I think what truly makes a natural flirt, a sort of quote unquote natural flirt is

not how they look or anything like that. It's their ability to just get out of their head with the flirt. Um,

And not second-guess themselves in the moment. It really does a lot of times come down to confidence. And how do you do that? Like if you're someone who wants the opportunities brought on by flirting, like the playfulness, like maybe more connection or like the ability to kind of express romantic interest and have that like reciprocated connection.

What are some of the strategies that maybe you have used or you've seen other people use to get themselves out of their heads into the present, into the situation? Yeah, that's my motto at the open of all my podcast episodes, to get out of your head and into the flirt, to stop thinking your way through the flirt, more so feel your way through the flirt. And I think one way you do that is by opening up your experience to

And your idea of what flirting is, your concept of what flirting is, and look to make those connections with everyone, regardless of whether or not you think they're hot, right? You want someone to give you attention back. You see someone that has piqued your interest that now you want to go on a date with or you want to hook up with, whatever.

If you're going into the flirt with this very narrow-minded point of view of who you think this person is and you're already assuming the role that you want them to play in your life because of how they look, let's just say, well, it's just the flirt may not be received that way, first of all. But then also you're very much limiting yourself to the types of flirts you can experience and to the types of people that you're going to flirt and then connect with.

So I love just opening up people's idea of what the flirt is, the role it can serve in their lives, being that it's ultimately all about connection. It's playful. It's an energetic exchange. Sometimes I describe it as an act of service. It really is.

That it's an opportunity for you to learn some incredible things about someone else about yourself. And so if if you're struggling with confidence or you just feel like you don't have the confidence to do that.

Think about the times in your life when you have made connections just in the moment, could be with friends. And maybe you don't consider that a flirt, but connection is connection nonetheless. And so you've proven to yourself that you can do it. I really like that. Like firstly, lowering your expectations, not even lowering, but changing your expectations around what flirting actually is and the desired outcome, like going into it.

Being like, okay, well, this is more about me than it is about them as of right now. Like, this is a confidence-building thing for me. I'm just going to try and do it. And then the outcome is whatever it is. Whatever it is. Like, it's a learning process. I want to talk about some more, like, practical ways to flirt. Okay. So...

And maybe this is like very, I want it to be very specific. Like, what do you think are the most effective ways of flirting? Whether it's like asking questions, like physical, what in your mind and your experience like really works?

So I love starting with flirt styles, I think can be super useful. This is something that came from the University of Kansas. There's published research on this. There's actually been four or five, but I've really distilled them down into four flirt styles where there's playful, sincere, traditional, and physical.

And I think I would even add a fifth now, most recently, the demure flirt. If you're on social media, you have probably seen that trend. So I think knowing your flirt style can be super, super helpful. And then it comes back to working the flirt non-verbally and verbally. So ultimately with flirt styles, it's how you like to express interest in somebody, how you like to connect.

Do you...

Like I'm very much a playful flirt. I have elements of sincere. We have elements of all of them, but you probably have one or two that are more dominant. So I'm very playful. I use lots of body language, hand motions. I'm very expressive with my eyes and my face. I play with my tone of voice. So I bring a lot of playful elements. I bring some humor into it. And then I pair that with sincerity where I am asking genuine questions. I'm practicing active listening.

I'm offering compliments that are non-physical. Yeah. Can you break down those four flirt styles by profile? Because I feel like I get those examples where I was like, yeah, I kind of can think of some examples of sincere and of playful and of physical. But what are some of the more detailed criteria or kind of characteristics of each of those styles? Yeah.

Yeah. So playful is the type of flirt that is going to lean more towards humor. You might even like roast someone a little bit if this is someone you know kind of well. You're going to be very just overall playful and expressive probably in your demeanor. Since the sincere flirt really likes to ask questions. Yeah.

and offer compliments. This is the person that is like, maybe they don't bring a ton of humor or jokes to the flirt, but they're in it, they're asking those questions so they can really get to know you and understand you better. The traditional flirt is, this style of flirt is like it's

Like sort of like quote unquote playing it safe a little bit, but that's not how I want to describe it. Like they really follow a lot of traditional conventions when it comes to getting to know someone. So kind of like, hello, how are you? My name is. Like they're not really going to be touchy feely or looking to give a hug or something like that. They're sort of going to really respect a lot of.

boundaries, in a sense, right away. And it can give the illusion of a slower burn style of flirt. But this is just how this person likes to express interest. This is so interesting. Can I interrupt you? Of course. That is so interesting because that sounds like spot on like my partner. Like when we first started dating, I was like, are you even into me? But he would do things like, oh, open the door for me. Buy me flowers. But then I would be like,

Then I remember on maybe our third date, he gave me a hug and it was the most awkward hug I've ever had. Because it's just not what he was used to. But he is definitely like, it's so funny listening to this thing, like, oh yeah, he's totally traditional and very much sincere where he will be doing all the things that you would expect from a gentleman in the 1930s.

So there, I think that's probably his flirt style. Traditional with elements of sincere. Yeah. Which is interesting. Sorry, I interrupted. And the last one is. Oh, the last one is physical. And this one, like our minds tend to go right to, oh, this is the person that is like giving physical compliments right away. They're being, being very touchy feely. Um, two,

To an extent, yes, like when this is someone you get to know, but right away in an initial flirt, this is someone that I feel like brings just a lot of physical energy. They're very animated, like with their body language, they're going to be very open. I think a little bit more relaxed. They may do a little bit of like touching you on top of the shoulder, sort of nudging their shoulder into yours. Like they're going to gravitate towards you.

some touch probably as a means to express interest but that can be conveyed and in a one-dimensional way even though if it's not meaning meaning to be in like intended as like hey i want you kind of thing yeah and then the demure flight which is this new one that you've yeah this recently is it something you've just recently introduced based on like the trend um

Yes, exactly that. I think it would be a very fun fifth flirt style where this is the flirt that's very mindful, right? Very respectable, very approachable. I'm kind of getting like, you know, the flirt that's like a little bit more laid back sort of come to me kind of thing. But I see them as also bringing a lot of sincere and playful elements too. So maybe the demure is a combination of playful and sincere. Yeah.

It's so interesting, like hearing you say these and being like, a lot of them kind of align with like our love languages, right? Like, you know, acts of service being traditional, like words of affirmation, being sincere, physical touch, being physical.

And I feel like that's what you were explaining before. It's like there is no way to go about showing interest in someone. It does sometimes need to be a combination, but you start small. It's like asking a question. I feel like the thing that really holds people back from outwardly flirting is being embarrassed about being called out for it.

it's like yes rejection is a component it's like someone just not reciprocating but it's also like okay someone has noticed that i'm doing it and is then turned off by that but what you were saying if like it can be so small like just asking a really sincere question is a way of like embracing the flirt or like being like very demure and very much like ah i want you to come and

Come and chase B in a way. Also another great example. So do you think that it's better to be like more subtle or more obvious when it comes to flirting? I think it depends. Like it could...

Like the flirt in that way could follow more heteronormative gender roles if it's like, well, the guy's going to approach the woman kind of thing. And so like the woman is then giving some of those signals with some body language, some eye contact, right? Pulling the eye contact away. Maybe like the hair gets tucked behind the ear and then sort of like, like, I don't know, tongue, I don't know, bite the bottom lip or something like some of these sort of traditional expressions of,

non-verbal interest we may think of. But it's like from what I hear and doing the work that I do, it's like

I think everyone can approach everybody. But it starts with the point of connection and then letting it build from there. And it can build quickly. It's not like you have to stay in this neutral space of connection forever. But to what you're saying, you never know where someone is at, what they're thinking about, how they're feeling on any given day, if they're up to receive a flirt.

And so just working your way into it, I think, is a great, ultimately a great strategy, especially if this is someone you don't know. You're just out in public somewhere. You're at an event. Mm-hmm.

And I do feel, I really do see what you mean. It's like starting subtle also gives them time to reciprocate in a way. Yes. Yes. I mean, especially like, okay, if you're, you're listening to this episode and you like have someone in mind, you're like, okay, I want to start approaching this person. I am interested in them and I want them to know that like, I'm kind of open to it. Starting subtle and small kind of test that. And it tests that they they're going, that it is a mutual feeling and,

rather than sometimes you know a more obvious come on where there is a lot more space to be rejected or maybe even embarrassed to go for it and to have them be like no I don't think of you that way maybe like that's another way of like conceptualizing flirting it's like it's like testing the waters a little bit yeah before ultimately pursuing them have you found that to be like the case with people that you've spoken to or in your work

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's like, yeah, if you are looking to explore some more romantic interest, like if that is part of your intention with the flirt, it's like you've got to start somewhere. And it could be, you know, we're talking a lot about in-person examples, but if it's online, if you're on the apps, if you're on social media, you want to slide into someone's DMs, it's like,

if you go in to the flirt right away with those expectations of I want this person to receive this flirt in this particular way, I want my interest to be reciprocated in this particular way, well, ultimately you're flirting with another person and there's no guarantee that that's going to happen. And so then maybe you are feeling rejected or you're feeling like you fumbled the flirt or like it just didn't go well. But it's like starting a little bit more

subtly

Making that connection first, expressing that interest, having that interest received and reciprocated, and then you get the flirt back. And like, you can have a lot of fun in this initial phase. It's not as if you're going up to someone and just like, hello, like, it's like, that's, you know, we're not just going with small talk, some back and forth banter here. The flirt is, it's really about energy. It's about vibrations as well. It's much, much more than just,

you know, talking about the weather. I really, really like that. That's not flirting. Yeah. I also, I also feel like when I was flirting a lot more, like,

romantically. It really was like, okay, it's not really about you. It's about the energy that I'm going to bring and hope and like not even hoping, but knowing that what that is, that's going to be contagious. And also being like, okay, if I'm going to step into this situation, I talk about this a lot on the show of like the golden orb theory, which is my idea that if you visualize this like big golden orb, like coming out of you and encircling everyone around you with each breath, it's like propelling confidence. It's

repelling all of this like good vibrant energy and everyone that it touches will immediately like you that's like the kind of energy that I really like to bring to the situations and it was interesting because it's also a really great way of discerning you know whether people are actually

kind of at your level in a sense, like whether they're going to be a good match. Because if, you know, you've got someone who's like, you're putting out all this really great energy and they're just not really picking it up and reciprocating it, or even just not even noticing it or even the worst case scenario, like not enjoying it. It's kind of like, well, okay, this stopped me from going really, really slow and cautiously and

you know, only asking questions and trying to like toe the line between expressing romantic interest and six months later, realizing that this person is probably not for me versus kind of, again, putting it, like putting it out there and seeing what they take for themselves or what they kind of hand back to me. Do you have any other like confidence tricks, like that kind of instance of like a hack to immediately like be in the mindset that is

ready to embrace the flow or ready to flirt no matter the outcome do you have any like tricks for people to get into that state of mind where they're prepared and willing to give it a go

Yeah, I think I do. And I hope I hope everyone listening will like this, as I know, like oftentimes you you think about the flirt as you're dating or you're in a relationship. And so it oftentimes goes in the direction of romantic of expressing romantic interest. And so, like, let's just say you're out one night with friends.

Like you're dancing and you see someone that's super, right? You find really attractive. You may be seeing them around a few times and you want to go and approach them and flirt. But maybe like the last one didn't go well. You're fearful, you know, oh, they're already taken. They're actually here with someone and you didn't know. Or they are, right? Their person isn't here or they're going to reject you. And then it can just like sour you.

The rest of your night you're feeling embarrassed and just like you know, I've been in that situation plenty of times and so

One thing that I love to work with is thinking about the flirt as ultimately an act of service, going into it with no expectations, right? You're not going in there expressing romantic interest or intent right away, but just looking to bring a smile to someone's face, to uplift your mood and their mood in the process, to have a laugh, to share a moment.

And have it be that, have it be truly that in the present moment. And you will oftentimes be surprised what unfolds after that. I really like that. Again, back to those like lowering your expectations, not of yourself, but of what someone else might be willing to give back, which is really okay. Yeah.

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Taking care of my body using natural ingredients is an act of self-care. More importantly, self-love when the products I'm using are kind to my skin and the planet. That's why I love using Wilde and their refillable natural deodorant, body wash and lip balm, which are vegan, cruelty-free and use high quality natural ingredients without any nasties. Not only do Wilde's refill scents smell delicious, they're also good for your skin.

They also have the smoothest cream formula and leave you feeling fresh for 24 hours. Check out some of their best-selling scents, Fresh Cotton and Sea Salt, Ocean Mist and Cherry Blossom. We all know that taking care of the planet means taking care of ourselves and Wild makes it so easy to swap your everyday deodorant, body wash and even lip balm for a more sustainable alternative. Their cases are

100% reusable with compostable refills meaning no more single-use plastics I have the B case for my deodorant and I just need you to go online and see how adorable it is like I never thought deodorant could be so decorative and smell this good wild is truly shaking up the throwaway culture of everyday bathroom products with refillable products that actually work

Get 20% off your order with my code POY20. Go to wearewild.com and use code POY20 at checkout for 20% off all products or head to the podcast Instagram at thatpsychologypodcast to find a direct link on my link tree. Enjoy.

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Did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. And what does that look like? A thousand pep talks. A million I've got yous. Some very urgent I'm coming over's. Because, I don't know, let's face it, life can get even crazier than a season finale of Grey's Anatomy. And now here we are, opening up the friendship circle. To you. Someone's cheating? We've got you on that. In-laws are in-lying? Let's get into it.

Toxic friendship? Air it out. We're on your side to help you with your concerns.

Talk about ours. And every once in a while, bring on an awesome guest to get their take on the things that you bring us. While we may be unlicensed to advise, we're going to do it anyway. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I want to talk about something else here because I think we're talking about flirting a lot in the sense of like casual connections, people you've just met, strangers even.

How can we incorporate flirting into like long-term relationships? Because it's kind of like, it can't just be something that you only pull out when you want to get someone. And then as soon as you've got them, you know, you stop the show. How do you kind of keep that as part of a healthy relationship? It's a good question. Cause I, I like I've said that the flirt is the one thing that you'll have forever.

from your first meeting, even before the first meeting, all the way through the relationship. Like this is the one continuous thread that is gonna, like the first date starts with a flirt. The second date, you get there through the flirt and so on and so on. And should it blossom into relationship, the flirt is what is in many ways carrying, like it's a part of it. It's a part of it for sure. And being that the flirt is all about connection. So ultimately, how do you all like to connect

Like, what is something that you both enjoy that is super fun to do? If it's a poly or open relationship, that can be part of this discussion too. And so it's ultimately doing things that make you feel really connected to one another. And so sometimes I'll work with couples or one part of the couple where they're feeling disconnected and it's because they're not having...

a lot of quality time. It's maybe they don't feel considered when they're communicating, right? It's sort of like, oh yeah, sure. Sort of very being brushed off. So if you're not feeling truly seen in your relationship, of course the flirt, it's like, that's probably, that's going to go out the, out the door. So there, there are some foundational things to work on perhaps around communication, around just understanding one another.

respecting boundaries, needs, like some of that. But flirting can also be a huge part of what is going to have a relationship, be healthy and remain healthy as it's a way to connect to one another. And so I oftentimes like to share this one example. This is from my mom and stepdad. And what they do is they got this pack of action figures. That's these little figurines, I think from the dollar store here in the States.

And they hide them all over the house. And maybe on these action figures, like there's these little notes or maybe like the action figure is like holding something random like a flower from outside. Or maybe it has this little note that says, I love you. Or something like that. Not a ton of...

time that really went into creating this moment of connection. And so I think just exploring, you know, maybe that was an example that you really like if you're out there listening and in a relationship, I think it's bringing those really genuine moments of connection into the relationship where the whole point is just to say, I see you. I'm glad you're in my life. I love you. And that's the flirt can serve you there. Yeah. Yeah.

I really like that idea. That's actually very, very sweet. It's so cute. I know. It's so cute. And it's almost like maybe part of being flirty is being childish a little bit and really tapping into that part of you that's going to be willing to not be serious all the time as adult life kind of makes us serious and it makes us think about big questions and responsibilities and all these things. And it's like, actually, no, get back to like the real innocent,

oh my god gentle gooey part of your relationship and tap into that and it's so cute because um my grandparents who are you know my grandpa's about to turn 90 and he is so flirtatious with my grandma still and i'm sure like that part of their relationship like the more sexual side of their relationship like has probably died down a little bit but you wouldn't be able to tell because it's like yeah he's always like

you know, has these gorgeous pet names for her. It's like spoiling her. And it's kind of like, okay, I can see that this is actually a deliberate strategy that you are using not to keep the love alive, but to keep

This like spark of flame rather than just something that dwindles. So do you see that a lot with couples where it's like, what you're really missing here is just finding ways to connect and appreciate each other through the flirt? It's, yeah, because like as sometimes a relationship can become

really transactional. It's like, it's just about doing things for one another. If like you're both super busy, you're building careers, you're raising a family, perhaps it's just, okay, I'm doing this. You do this. It just becomes, you're playing your roles that serves a purpose to an extent. And this relationship becomes very transactional. Well, then it's like you're,

To people kind of cohabitating perhaps. And it's like, where's the flirt? Where's the romance? And I feel like that's just as valuable as all the other things that you would do for someone. Like I think sometimes...

the bare bones of a relationship are not enough, showing up for them is great. And like doing the dishes is great. And saying, I love you is great, but even having quality, bare minimum, it's like, and sometimes like I was talking to someone about this the other day and she's like, yeah, you know, when your partner says, I love you, but like, you know, they don't actually like love you in that moment. They're just saying it because they look, they know that they are, that they love you in general.

And it's really like taking the time to be like, no, like this is a conscious decision of mine to be like actively present in this relationship. And to, again, something you said earlier, like to use this as a service, like this is a service to you to keep this relationship alive. So my final question is any final tips, tricks, practical advice, pick up lines, anything that comes to mind that you think

Can elevate the flirt for people. I mean, this could be a whole other episode. Yeah. Just on this one question. I mean, I think, like, hopefully it's come through in the interview today that I am very playful and I love to have a lot of fun. So I think...

Just coming back to the part of the episode about your flirt style, maybe you really relate or identify with one of them. I think reflecting back to parts of this episode where we talked about what the flirt is, that it's about connection, that it comes without those expectations in the present moment. So having some of that flirt framework in place. And then when it comes to flirting in real life, it's like,

have those one or two ways that you like to introduce yourself, that you like to start initiate the flirt. It can be with some eye contact, smiling, that kind of thing. So just to give you like an as an example, say like I were at the club, the club, and I saw someone cute I wanted to flirt with. And so instead of just like going right up, tapping them on the shoulder, like, hey, can I buy you a drink or something like that? I might, you know, kind of

Make eye contact with them at some point, like around the bar on the dance floor. Come over to them. Be like, hey, I saw you looking at me from across the way. And then make a joke. Oh, my God, do I still have my name tag on? Or, oh, is my tag on Inside Out? Is my shirt on Inside Out? Or something like that. And then bring some humor into it. Hopefully have them smile, laugh. And then at that point introduce myself. Hey, my name is Benjamin. How's your night going?

Yeah, and I really, really like that. You're in the flirt at that point. Introducing yourself can be a part of it. And then detaching from any and all expectations. At that point, maybe that's all, maybe that's the whole flirt. Or maybe...

we go to the dance floor. Maybe we go outside and talk more. Who knows? Yeah. I really like that. Who knows? And also that, sorry, I'm already, I'm continuing this conversation even though I was like last piece of advice, but I will say like one thing that you just mentioned there was like the self-deprecating humor as well. Like if you want to take, if you want to take the pressure off, maybe, you know,

Just make fun of yourself. Bring a little bit of lightness to the situation so that neither of you feel like, okay, wait, there's expectations here. If this person isn't interested, they need to immediately shut me down or I need to be immediately conscious of them not liking it. It's okay to just be a little bit, again, I think this is a repetitive thing I've been saying and that you've been saying is just be playful with it.

It's a big part of it. And the flirt is so much, it's about possibility. It's about opportunity. And so if you find you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to flirt, like even I, I'm not in a flirting mood all the time. I don't flirt with literally everybody. So if you're not feeling up to it or you feel like, or someone you think they were flirting with you and you didn't pick up on it or someone you wanted to flirt with. And, you know, now that say you're at the club and that

Time has passed. Oh, my God. I'll never see them again. There's always another flirt. You didn't mess it up. It's okay. So just take the pressure off yourself where sometimes I feel like we –

We feel like we have to perform in the flirt where we have to show up as a certain person where, oh, now I want this person to see me as sexy or flirty or fun or whatever. Like what you're, because you did an episode on this somewhat recently about this idea of perception and how we're perceived. And I think this is, this happens in the flirt too, where sometimes we show up as the way we want to be perceived versus showing up as truly perceived.

ourselves. And this is back to the point of connection with the self. It's like, yeah, I want you to just show up as you, whoever that is, whoever you are, wherever you are.

It's to be you. Yeah. It's one of the hardest things in the world, though. Yeah, I know. I know. I love it. We're like, just be yourself. But it's like, no, it takes a while. But this is part of it. Yeah. Yeah. This is part of it. Just being like, yeah, okay. This is part of it. Yeah. I'm open to whatever happens. Like we talk about in the fear of being perceived episode. It's like...

that you need to sometimes the best way to get over your fear of rejection is is through exposure and just being like okay they might not be reciprocate might not reciprocate and they'll still be okay so i feel like that is a great place to end i want to say thank you so much for coming on for this episode where can everyone find you

Oh my goodness. I would love for everyone to come flirt with me on Flirtstagram, which is Instagram. Flirt Talk, which is TikTok. There's FlirtTube, YouTube. I'm very much about branding. And my podcast, Flirtations, new episodes dropping every week where I talk about flirting, yes, but also lots of dating advice as well. I really focus on, in my work, the flirt through defining that relationship. So this early phase of

of dating where it's like sometimes what's happening? Yeah, I know. It's always up in the air. But that actually...

I feel like if you're going through a single period at the moment, a low confidence period, definitely check out Ben's stuff. It's incredible. It's amazing. And as always, if you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to give us a follow, leave a five-star review. Wherever you are listening right now, maybe share with a friend who needs a little bit of advice or needs to be on Floatstagram, whatever it is. And make sure you go and check out all of Ben's work. Until next week.

stay safe stay kind and be gentle with yourself we will talk very very soon

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