Let's Be Charmed...with Holly Marie Combs
43:11 Share

So I have some big news for vegans and vegetarians everywhere. It's Hellman's plant-based mayo spread and dressing. Made for people with a plant-based diet or anyone really who wants to enjoy the great taste of Hellman's real without the eggs. Hellman's plant-based is perfect for sandwiches, salads, veggie burgers, or any of your family favorites.

To celebrate, Hellman's is sharing some easy, delicious plant-based recipes at hellmans.com. Hellman's Plant-Based Mayo Spread and Dressing. Same great taste, plant-based.

Safety info found at FreestyleLibre.us.

Maybe you've noticed that when it comes to business, the people who succeed tend to be the people who seek out partners with skills or knowledge that they don't have. And that's what Lenovo's free online membership program, Lenovo Pro, can do for small businesses. If you're not a tech expert, that's where Lenovo can help. So you can add Lenovo's team to yours and then lean on them for all your tech questions.

for free. So to join Lenovo Pro, visit Lenovo.com and unlock new AI experiences with Lenovo's ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors. This is Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. Hi everyone, this is Shannon Doherty and today I'm joined by a very special guest, my friend Holly Marie Combs. Hi Holly. Hi, how's it going? As usual, so full of energy. What some people don't know is

is that we knew each other before Charmed. How do people not know that? I don't know. They weren't paying attention. I know, but some people don't know. They didn't watch TMZ very much. Correct. Wait, this was before TMZ. It was. So how did we, how did we meet? Are you saying you don't remember? You just want me to tell the story? I'm quizzing you. Oh, I didn't know there was going to be a test. There's always a test.

Wow, this is a long string of events. So my first husband, my first mistake, was friends with Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Some of you may know his name. And he was dating Lara Flynn Boyle at the time. So Lara was actually the first friend I had in college.

LA when I moved there to do Picket Fences. And Lara knew Roxanna, Roxanna knew you, and Charlie was in there in the middle somewhere. So when I was no longer friends with Lara, then I became friends with Roxanna, and then I became friends with you, and then Roxanna became upset that we became friends.

And what really the story is like you met me and you were like, I don't need any other friend but Shannon. That was the distinction. That was it. It was the only choice. You're like, I don't need any of these other people with her multiple personalities. She covers all of them. It's all good. And so then I became Charlie's daughter's

godmother and then I got fired because of the first husband my first mistake she didn't like that situation then you got hired as that godmother it's all very twisted if you think about it it is it is really twisted so we all right so right I was 19. oh God that means

That means I was 20. No, that means I had like a momentary lapse where I'm like, what am I, 39 now? Oh no, 49. So that means that was 30 years ago. And I just don't think there's enough time in the day to go through all of this. That's a...

It's a long, long, long time. It's a long journey. Right. So we hung out. We did all of this stuff. And when Charmed came around, I remember... We're skipping a lot of stuff here, by the way. I know. I'm going to get to Charmed real quick. We can always backtrack. All right. Well, yeah. I mean, okay. Hold on. No, no. You're right. No. Because you said first mistake a couple of times. I did. Which is really funny because I think...

Um, we paralleled with mistakes. We did. Through our friendship. Um, you know, you're on your third marriage, right? I am. Aren't you? But so far, so good. Well, no, I mean, my third is ending. Right. So, okay. Here's, here's one of my favorite stories about Holly that I want to tell all of our listeners. That, uh, Hollywood often stay at my house because, um,

of my first mistake. The first mistake was no bueno and she needed a little bit of safety and protection and I supplied it along with my German Shepherd, Elfie, who was like shits and three trained and cray cray and loved Holly and she kept people away from the property. Let's just put it like that. She had a couple encounters with the first mistake that didn't go so well for him. And so...

Holly would walk around the house in overalls with a tool belt and she would fix everything in the house that needed fixing. Like I distinctly recall looking at her and saying, it's so weird that there's not a lock on my bathroom door. Like what if I have a guy over and I need to use the restroom? They could just come in. Like that's not okay. And

The next thing I knew, I heard like hammering and there was a lock on the door. And I was like, this is so cool. I was handy. I also needed projects. You were very, very, very handy. Yeah. You, uh, yeah, you, you fixed everything in my house. I actually need you to.

- We need some things fixed. - Yeah, I have a couple items that need fixing. - Do you have anything that needs to be put together? - And you're cheaper and funnier than a handyman. - I think so.

Hi everybody, it's Savannah Guthrie from the today show as we head back to work back to school back to everything we want to help you turn your to do list into your today last your morning routine healthy meals and workout plans we've got you covered so you can take it all on with simple solutions to help you through the day everything you need to know before heading out the door so join us every morning on NBC because every day needs today.

Step into the world of power, loyalty, and luck. I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse. With family, cannolis, and spins mean everything. Now, you want to get mixed up in the family business. Introducing the Godfather at choppacasino.com.

Test your luck in the shadowy world of The Godfather Slots. Someday, I will call upon you to do a service for me. Play The Godfather, now at Chumpacasino.com. Welcome to the family. No purchase necessary. VGW Group. Voidware prohibited by law. 18 plus. Terms and conditions apply.

For 25 years, Brightview Senior Living Associates have been committed to creating a vibrant culture and delivering exceptional services, making Brightview a great place to work and live. If you're looking for a rewarding opportunity to serve your local community and grow, we want you to join our team. Brightview Senior Living is growing and actively seeking vibrant associates to join our community teams, including directors, healthcare, activities, hospitality, and dining. Apply today at careers.brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal employment opportunities.

Text BVJOBS to 97211 to apply. I'm going to jump to Charmed. And I was obviously off of 90210. I was very trepidatious of working with Aaron Spelling again and getting involved because they burned me really badly on 90210. And I was probably carrying around a lot of resentment and anger still. But absolutely, you know, working mall rats, like doing different projects and

you know pretty chilled and Holly I picked I picked you up right and we were in my car and she saw like this script sort of thrown in the back seat that's how much you looked at it you saw spelling just through it yeah it's true I saw Aaron spelling and I was like I'm not going down that path again no thank you um but you saw it and you were like have you read it no it's like absolutely not

mm-hmm and I said actually this one is pretty good you you'll probably like it and you said no it says spelling on it and I said I know I understand but if they sent it to you that means they want to work with you on it and it might be a good thing yeah and I read it and then you had your meeting with Aaron coming to Jesus moment

I mean, it wasn't really a coming to Jesus moment. It was for him. It was for him. Like you just walk in and, and it's as if nothing happened. Right. I mean, for him, he, that's how he, how he conducted the meeting was, it was like, kiddo, let's do this project together. It's going to be great. And I was just like, uh, do we want to talk about everything that happened in the past? Do we want to talk about that? You fired me and didn't even have a discussion with me. And like,

All this stuff that transpired on 90210 and how, you know, that was just an ugly situation. But no, he didn't really want to discuss any of it. He just wanted us to move forward. He was moving on. But, you know, you were right. It was really well written. Constance Burge did an amazing job. It was supernatural, but like it had darkness to it as well. And it was funny to a certain extent. Yeah.

And it was like the relationship between the sisters was so powerful and so great. It was funny by accident. Like it wasn't supposed to be funny. Anything funny that happened was totally by accident. That's true. Yeah. But then it worked because, you know, the circumstances were so...

beyond reality that to to have those moments of humor or humanizing moments helped it a lot yeah and you were Aaron offered us different roles well I'm jumping ahead once again so he wanted me for Piper for your role yep and I had auditioned for Phoebe which was painful yes and uh

And we sort of were like, let's switch this around. Let me be the older, let you be the middle. He didn't believe that we were old enough to play those characters. Yeah, it was actually, we were the appropriate ages for the other characters that we preferred. Right. And we preferred them because they were, like Prue felt more authentic to me. She also felt like a different character than Brenda, which was really important to me. Like Brenda on 90210 was such a,

she had so much like teenage angst and and made so many mistakes and was kind of selfish and self-serving in her own way and prue was the antithesis of that right she was

all about her sisters and all about self-sacrifice, which I really liked as far as a career move. And for me personally, I just didn't want to play a character that seemed a little frazzled or like the Phoebe character, which was, you know, a little on that immature cusp. I wanted to play like a very solid, strong woman.

who put her sisters above everything else. Why did you want to play Piper? I don't know. I just felt I definitely couldn't be the youthful Phoebe one. I don't think I was that youthful when I was youthful. And so Piper was just far more appropriate for me at the time. And she was a handful. It was a challenge.

Right. Which I think is the thing about the two of us always is that we kind of like challenges. Definitely. I don't want to be bored. Hence a lot of our mistakes.

All of them. All of them. We're like, well, that's a challenge. That one's a challenge. We can change him. I don't see red flag. It's fine. I can turn that green. No problem. We've got a discount on red flags today. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, I think that like Piper, I just remember reading the script and when you were like, I want to play Piper.

I thought this actually makes sense because you would bring your sort of, you have like a dryness to you, which I love. Like that's my kind of sense of humor is a little dry, a little dark, super witty, clever. And yet there back then, not saying that it's like this now, back then there was like, there was something naive about you personally and very, like still very trusting regardless of your mistake.

You were still very trusting and soft. And it was a good casting call for you to be Piper because you were able to bring the vulnerability to her, the negativity to her,

And, um, along with like your dryness, your eye rolls, which you're now famous for. Apparently, you know, you, you brought a character that I, that I personally felt when I read the script was kind of two dimensional and you really made her three dimensional. Like you gave her so many different layers and so many different colors. You brought her to life, I think in a way that not even the producers or Constance could have

could have seen coming. Yeah. Well, Constance was tough to remember. She, uh,

she based the characters on her sisters. And so she was trying to hold me to what she had created. And I was like, you got to give me a little leeway here. You got to give me a little, it was tough to make everybody happy. You know, the network was against me. Um, only Aaron and you wanted me. You blackmailed the network into wanting me. We'll go into that story. So who, what,

Was the network WB or CW at that point? It was still the WB, yeah. The WB. So I was already committed to the project

And Aaron and I made a calculated decision to take only Holly for Piper and another girl, Dana, for Phoebe. So we go to the network. I'm sitting in with the network. The girls come in individually and read off of me. And it's really like I love telling the story. I hope you like it as much as me because I just think it's such an interesting take on Hollywood and

sometimes the close mindedness of people and someone like you, like persevering and proving everybody wrong, which I love. But so you came in and you read, Dana came in and read and the network, you guys went out of the room and the network looked at me and they said,

Yeah. She just doesn't have like that it factor. And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm like, you know, that like charisma that like, like when you walk in a room, Shannon, like everybody takes notice. And I went, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's because I'm now who I am. Thanks to 90210. Thanks to a network giving me a chance. Thanks to Fox network saying like, okay, let's hire her for Brenda. It's because I was on the cover of Rolling Stone magazine. Like

"You give this girl this part and she's gonna do all of that." - I believe. - They were still sitting on the fence. Erin and I walked out and I remember that you and Dana were standing in the parking lot and Erin and I kind of like walked away from you guys and Erin goes, "Kiddo, what do you wanna do?" "I'll fight for Holly." And I said, "She does it or I don't do it." And Erin goes, "I'll back you." And I went, "Great." So we had our piper.

We did not have our Phoebe. No, I believe the term, the actual term was star quality. She doesn't have the star quality that you do. And that one stuck with me for a while. And I know exactly the person who said it. And she actually called me years later to do another pilot after Charmed. And it was a pilot. It was six women. Mistresses, right? Yeah.

Yeah. And I said, are you trying to kill me? And she goes, no, absolutely not. She goes, I think you're the perfect person for this project. And I was like, why? And she goes, because I know you'll deal with all of them really well. And I was like, God damn it. Yeah.

It didn't get picked up, obviously, anyway. I think they picked up Drop Dead Diva instead. Right. So then, you know, they cast this girl out in New York, Lori Rahm, who was wonderful. Loved her. She fit in perfectly. She brought some...

something like she was quirky, right? Like she was quirky, but took everything very seriously. Yeah. I think she was primarily a stage actress before this and it kind of showed. Yeah. I mean, I, I enjoyed her, but she ended up quitting. She did. And after we got picked up and then they filled her part with Alyssa Milano.

It was actually right in the middle. We found out right in the middle of the TV guide shoot that she wasn't coming to the shoot and we didn't know why. And we found out later that she had, she was a member of a particular church and the church didn't like that. She was playing a witch on TV and basically told her she would go to hell. Listen, I,

not the decision I personally would have made clearly, but I do respect her for putting her faith and her values first. - And I couldn't argue with it. Nobody could, they just kind of went, okay, now what do we do? So that's why that TV guide shoot, there's us on each side and then they just dropped Alyssa into the middle of the photo shoot.

What a time period. And Charmed was like a, you know, it was, I sort of look back and think like that first season was sort of the best season to shoot as far as everybody getting along. Sure. I felt, you know, I mean, compared to season two and season three for me, season one, we were all still like new working together and feeling things out. There were obviously things that

you know, we didn't necessarily all agree on. Like, I didn't think it was important to move to a studio lot so that we could have a commissary. There were just a few of those things where you were like, oh, okay, you know. I look at season one a lot and say, wow, we were...

Getting our feet under us like you see the steady improvement from season one to season three season three being my favorite season and Just like the growth like with our writers and I think even the growth with like our acting and we settled into our parts a lot more and felt

a bit more of a freedom, certainly in season three. I can't, I'm not going to talk about the other seasons because I wasn't there. So why would I? But like, you know,

You and I had so many arguments with the producers about our clothing, about our hair. Like they wanted to control every single aspect of us. We could not, we had zero freedom. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, that's Aaron's thing too, with the hairstyles. Like we were not allowed to change our hair for the first, I think six episodes. Like it couldn't even, they didn't even want it to be up. You had to establish your hairstyle first.

and keep it that way because he felt that that's how an audience became familiar with you. Yeah, that's how they identified with the character was a big part of the hair. Right. And listen,

maybe he's right it's a formula for sure formula I mean I like to think that people are identifying with the character because of what we're bringing to it and our performances not in the physical right well one would hope but right I mean when you work that hard and those hours you're working 17 18 hour days you're it's nice to think that it's

because you're talented and people are connecting with the character as opposed to like your hairstyle. - Well, yeah, the job is to create a human, a whole human. It was a little tight. It was a struggle. We were struggling to prove ourselves. We were struggling to prove ourselves to the network and all of that. I mean, we could keep talking about it or we could just reboot the reboot. - We're not talking about episodes. We're not getting into any of that. Promise you, that is for the reboot.

Hi everybody, it's Savannah got 3 from the today show as we head back to work back to school back to everything we want to help you turn your to do list into your today last your morning routine healthy meals and workout plans we've got you covered so you can take it all on with simple solutions to help you through the day everything you need to know before heading out the door so join us every morning on NBC because every day needs today.

Okay, round two. Name something that's not boring. Laundry? Ooh, a book club. Computer solitaire. Huh? Ah, sorry. We were looking for Chumba Casino. That's right. ChumbaCasino.com has over 100 casino-style games. Join today and play for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes. ChumbaCasino.com. No purchase necessary. Full worth related by law. 18 plus. Terms and conditions apply. See website for details.

For 25 years, Brightview Senior Living Associates have been committed to creating a vibrant culture and delivering exceptional services, making Brightview a great place to work and live. If you're looking for a rewarding opportunity to serve your local community and grow, we want you to join our team. Brightview Senior Living is growing and actively seeking vibrant associates to join our community teams, including directors, healthcare, activities, hospitality, and dining. Apply today at careers.brightviewseniorliving.com. Equal employment opportunities.

Text BVJOBS to 97211 to apply. - I wanna ask a question. Are you excited about your new endeavor? - You know, after I recorded the first episode, I said to Chris on the phone, I was like, "Who needs therapy?" Like there's something very cathartic about doing a podcast.

And especially I think when it's,

like my type of podcast where you're unpacking your life. You're basically, you know, looking at everything and in real time going, oh, you know, maybe I was at fault. Maybe I did this. Maybe I did that. Or maybe this person needs to take responsibility. I think it is giving me and going to give me in the future everything that I would be spending $250 an hour for. Absolutely. So I'm very excited about that. I'm saving money. Yeah. Yeah.

I bought a new pair of boots today because I was like, well, I saved money on therapy. So I like it so far. I also love the fact that like, you know, I'm in sweatpants and slippers.

Absolutely. Can't beat it. This is an interesting question. I don't think anybody's ever asked us this. And like you and I do a lot of conventions together and fans get to ask us questions on the panel. And they're usually, you know, about like certain episodes. Like what would you say the similarities are between us and the differences between us? Because people really look at us as like sisters. So it's kind of an interesting question.

Similarities, we definitely have the same sense of humor. Like when we did the travel show, we could entertain each other. We don't really need other people. Really don't.

I don't know. We were just always terribly compatible. I mean, I basically lived with you and Rob for quite a while. I don't know how Rob feels about that still to this day, but we sort of ate the same. We traveled the same. We hated people the same. Got in bar fights the same. Made the same mistakes. Right, right, right.

You know, we just have, you know, very similar personalities as different, you know, we come from very different childhoods, but we're just very similar. We do holidays the same and there's not a lot of people I can say that about. Right. Yeah. I think one of my favorite trips of ours that is actually not in the travel show is when my parents, you and I went to Ireland.

That really should have been the travel show. I don't know what we were thinking. It should have. The network didn't want to pay for the whole, you know, overseas trips. But that was definitely one of the most fun vacations I've ever had. Just you and I like walking around Ireland and sneaking out of castles so that my parents didn't see us sneaking out. And meanwhile, they were watching us from like their tower room. And we were of age, people. We were still of age. Yeah.

And then we got caught because one of the castles was you had to take the little, the castle ferry over, but we got back too late. Oops. How did we get back? We had to call a guy who knew a guy that had the thing that came across the moat thing. And we were too loud coming in apparently. And your mother was up and your mother was waiting and it still feels terrible. Yeah, it really does. Lisa was very upset with me. Yeah.

- She was, she was upset with us both. She was like, "It's dangerous, two girls going." And meanwhile, we just went to like the neighborhood pub. - We went to the pub, as one does. - Yeah, and we had a blast, like hanging out with all the Irish people and trying to mimic their accents and getting to know them and hearing like the story of Ireland from people who actually live there. - There's some great photos from that night.

Do you have them? Yes, I do. I actually don't have that many photos from Ireland, but I need some. I recently realized that I do not have nearly as many photos as I thought I did. Like just saved up over the years. I don't know what happened unless they always included like a boyfriend and I was mad and like ripped them up. They're probably in storage somewhere. I have found like some photos where it's like ripped in half.

So I know that there was a guy that I was dating next to me in the photo, but I've now ripped him out of the photo. But I apparently really liked how I looked in the photo. So I didn't want to just throw it out completely, which is hysterical. There's quite a few of those. And then I have to like try to backtrack and like buy my outfit to figure out who was in the photo with me. Like fashion determined who I was with. So yes, we had Ireland. So we're similar. How are we different besides like our childhood?

You drive a lot faster than I do. That's true. I'm an aggressive driver. Yes, you are. You're a lot. How do I say? Not like a neat freak, but you're much more tidy than I am.

Yes. I do admire your drive, though. I can see keeping things in order. Yeah. See, see that that wood thing behind her has to be at a certain diagonal on the counter. And it cannot be five degrees this way or that way. It has to be this way. That one right there. Just when I place things. Yeah. Yeah.

I like them, like I take my time placing stuff in my home. Yes. And because it's my sanctuary, right? It's where I feel the safest. So if I've spent, you know, months just looking for the right piece and I then spend hours figuring out exactly where it goes and at what angle and somebody comes in and moves it, it

it tweaks my brain a little bit. Yes. But I'm not OCD, but I do like things very much in order. I'm very, very like, you know. Look, you had to look to check to see if it was right. I did. I'm like craning my neck. I'm like, is it?

Is it right? So that, that I will say you're much more okay with diagonals and angles where I have to have everything straight or it drives me insane. I will be OCD about that. This bag is crooked. I'm going to straighten it. So you, you are happy just putting like furnitures and, and, and desk on angles. And I'm just like, why did she do that?

Only because everything else is straight lines. Like I'm not the person that enjoys a lot of arches and any of that. Like my house is, as you know, it's very square or rectangular. It's straight, straight, straight lines. So then I like to soften those straight lines by moving furniture at like a slightly off kilter angle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That tweaks my brain. I think we're both...

I wouldn't say that we're germaphobes, but I do think we're both very conscious of that. Yeah, try to be, sure. But we're going for how we're different. I think from my point of view, those differences have become less as you've gotten older. Oh, yeah. No, I blame you for everything. Exactly. When I tell people to fuck off now, I'm like, that's Shannon's fault. I don't know where that came from. You know? Yeah.

You're one of many who blame me for everything, so it's all good. I've heard it a lot lately. Yeah, I mean, I think like in the beginning with Charm, for instance, you were much more of a people pleaser, a producer pleaser. You had your thoughts, you had your opinions, but you were far quicker to acquiesce.

than I was. Oh, definitely. I mean, I barely made it there. So I had to be like, okay, sure. But then you started finding your voice. For me, your voice really started becoming much more strong in the third season. Like you were gaining it in the second season, but by the third season, I felt like,

you had your voice and you were willing to use it, you know, for the good of the show. Like it was always about improving and better scripts or, you know, people actually showing up and doing their job and not complaining about it. I mean, it was very important to me and I don't know how, I mean, it always was to both of us. It was always very important. And even to Alyssa in the beginning, because here we were these like, you know, these,

these child performers coming out of those trenches, trying to have some sense of normalcy as grownups and wanting this not to fail.

you know, we had that in common in the beginning that we all wanted this to be good and wanted this to be sort of like our foray into being grownup actors and to be taken seriously. And that's, you know, that's a tough jump for kid actors to suddenly, you know, be able to do this and be suddenly women, you know,

You know, because we were still young. We were surrounded by a team of men, aside from Connie, really, in the beginning. Yeah, you know, we had something to prove, for sure. And so by season three, it's like you have to believe in yourself. You have to find your footing, or you're going to just constantly look like you don't know what you're doing. And we cared.

Like we cared about the work. We cared about what we were putting out there and we cared about like you and I were always like towards the beginning. We were like, yeah, we'll we'll stay here. We may be exhausted. We may be tired. The crew wants to go home. We want to go home. But listen, if we don't have it, we don't have it. We'll like stay and we'll get it because we cared about what was going on that screen.

yeah, you know, and very dedicated. And, um, I don't know where that came from necessarily, but it was just, you know, a dedication to, to making it right and making it well. And, um, it's a work ethic that I don't think you can really manufacture. It is work ethic. Um, and it's,

It's work ethic along with being grateful, right? I think that we were both always very grateful. Gratefulness does not equate to not having an opinion. Right. You can still be grateful and look and say, you know what, this script is not great. Let's do a polish on it. Or, you know, this doesn't feel right.

natural to me, this relationship on this show, like between these two characters isn't working, like you can still have an opinion, but be grateful for being there. You just want your opinion valued and heard. Right. And respected, even if it gets rejected at the end of the day, as long as it's respected and heard, it's okay.

Oh, many times, you know, and I've been, I've been accused of taking the show too seriously at times. And I've been accused of being too involved at times. You know, there were times that I watched dailies every day and I would call the editors and go, why did you use that take and not that take? Like I was overly involved at a certain point. Um, but it just, because it mattered to me, I didn't want it to suck. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, we both always talked about like the comparison is sort of practical magic, which was one of our favorite movies. Yeah, it was a great book. It was my one of my first favorite books. I remember we referenced that movie a lot on occasion, a lot and on occasion to our producers and to our writers like, okay, look at how they did this, particularly I think with the like CGI. Yeah. Yeah.

Because our CGI was really rough. It was limited. It was a very long period of time. It was what we could afford at the time, for sure. Yeah, it was not great. But, I mean, it was pretty successful. Like, I think everybody was kind of, I think the network and spelling people, they were all like, wow, this actually, like, premiered well. And it kind of kicked off well. And then, like, the audience fell in love with it.

the concept and fell in love with the characters and the sisters and we were able to connect people in a way that that they weren't connecting before yeah it was a big it was a big premiere for the wb at the time um and i remember aaron saying it was the first time they had gotten a full season pickup so early the first season went pretty well and that was the the only time that

that happened because every season after that, they sort of made us wait for it. And we never knew if we were going to be canceled or not. For me, the way that

Things were on 90210 and like standing up for myself against all the men. And I think that got carried over into charm to a certain extent because it was still the same group of producers, right? And it was still producers who they started getting a little bit better about pretending to listen, but they weren't really listening. And whenever I would say something,

that was constructive about trying to improve the show or about my character.

they would kind of like go uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh and then smile and walk away and then i remember that like my attorney or my agent or my manager would always get a phone call being like you know shannon needs to stay in her lane and you know she's an actress and that's her job and she can't tell us how to run a show and it's always like my god like when when do things become collaborative

Things were very collaborative with Kevin Smith and Mallrats and a bunch of the other things that I did. So going back into this situation with spelling, I was like, so things haven't really changed that much. They're not evolving with the times. And I will say, again, that we were...

We were definitely ahead of the time of like the women's movement that has happened in the business. We were sort of pushing for our voices to be heard. We were, you know, rebelling against like the patriarchy, if you will, like the men who just wanted us to stay in a box and wear skin tight clothes with their boobs hanging out and, you

you know, keeping our hair a certain way and all of that stuff. Like we were sort of already pushing up against that and saying, no, no, no, we have a little bit more to offer than all of that. So let us bring everything that's within us

to the show. Like, let us be the creatives and the talent that you hired. You need to trust us at some point. Yeah. Which wasn't by design though. It just happened organically. And I think the fact that we knew each other from before and we kind of stuck together and creatively, we wanted more and we wanted better and we wanted more realistic portrayals of

women, you know, there were just some times where like the dialogue just didn't sound right. It didn't sound like a person our age would talk like that. So it needed to, well, it was because, you know, 45 year old, 50 year old guy was writing it. So it was like, you know, it had it, all of that happened organically. I don't remember ever feeling like we were being a pain in the ass.

you know, it's, it's, I couldn't have done it any other way. I couldn't have just been a puppet. Like that's just not in me. But I definitely look back on all of that and think, you know, we were, we were some of the very first trailblazers in, in sort of petitioning, if you will, for, for women to have a voice that actually mattered.

in a male-dominated business and certainly in a very male-dominated set with producers who were used to things being done a certain way and keeping their actresses, you know, sort of in a box. Mm-hmm.

We were show ponies for sure. We were show ponies. And I think people get confused when they see so many women writers on Charmed and say, well, there were women behind the scene, but there wasn't for us. The only producers we got to see were spelling producers, which were all men. And, you know,

the writers had a writer's room that was all the way in Hollywood, very far removed from us. And they didn't get to visit. They didn't get out much. That room stayed in the Aaron Spelling building by design. And

And, you know, there wasn't, you know, women writers on set aside from Connie. And, you know, eventually we saw how that went too. You know, she was pushed out creatively, financially, and in all the ways of the show that she created based on her own sisters by the group of guys. Yeah.

I also don't remember that many female writers in the first three seasons. That's because they never got out of the building and, you know, they just didn't get to visit a lot. And also the problem was, is that Brad did a polish on every script. So it didn't matter if we had like a great script from Daniel or Zach and Chris, it came out

feeling and hearing sounding the same because Brad did a polish on every script. And I was like, how many times am I going to say we're screwed? Every time there was a, we're screwed. It was Brad Kern. I was like, I know. We're talking about the show runner, uh, producer, Brad Kern, uh, who was an interesting fella. Illustrious. Yeah.

Yeah. I was such a fascinating letter from him that at some point I'm going to read on this podcast. It's just fantastic. It was after I was gone from the show and him experiencing that show without me and a deep, deep apology letter of like, oh my God. Mm-hmm.

which, you know, is great. You're like, okay, but you don't want to hear it after the fact. You want to hear it, you know, you want to be protected in that moment. So going back to like us as women, I think it was also, you know, three women on a show supposed to, you know, in its own way be an ensemble, but I was cast, you know, first. The show was originally sold to the WB based on me. So obviously that's all, that's going to be there. That's just natural. But

once those like magazine covers started happening and you know one person is being asked and the other one isn't or you're and and I experienced this on 90210 as well with like cover rolling stone and everybody was super mad at me because I did the cover rolling stone and didn't request everybody else and I was like okay it's cover rolling stone I'm not saying no to it um and

I kind of felt that I didn't kind of feel it was happening of the competitiveness was kicking in. And I'm not saying with you, I'm saying with Alyssa and myself that there was a lack of female support. And I personally was never, you know, I've had the same publicist for, I don't even know how long, Leslie Sloan and

You know, she could come on the podcast and be like, Shannon never cared about somebody else getting a cover. Like it just wasn't like in my wheelhouse. And I actually, even though it was supposedly good for my career, I, we were working so hard. I was like, like to then go on your weekend and do a photo shoot was kind of a nightmare to begin with, but yeah.

There was a competitiveness with Alyssa. I heard that she addressed it in her book. Obviously, I'm never reading her book because it's sorry, not sorry. So right there, you know, it tells me like, you're not freaking sorry. Like, why have you mentioned something in that case? And there was also competitiveness about you, which was really interesting of, you know, trying to pull you away from me and that, you know,

you know, transpired in that second season. And it was, I know for me, it was an incredibly rough season. You know, you were going through health stuff. You were in the hospital and my dad had been, as you know, in and out of the hospital nonstop and hospitals scared me to death. And I, you know, waited 24 hours after your surgery to go. And then it wasn't even easy for me to get in. I was like,

being told I couldn't even get it. Alyssa and her mom, like they were blocking people from seeing you. And at the time you didn't know. And I remember you texted me and we're like, dude, are you going to come to see me? And I could feel like your, you know, your pain of feeling like I'd abandoned you. Right. And,

but I also felt like my anger at the situation of not being allowed to come see you and like how a sort of family had like swooped in and and caused like this sort of weird divide between the two of us that then continued throughout season two where I think I cried every single night of season two. What is your take on season two because it was really interesting.

And you can go like broad strokes. Watching season two. I like season two because I feel like we were more ourselves than anything. I agree. But, you know, there was a lot going on behind the scenes. Um, I think it was pretty obvious that, uh,

You know, I was raised by teenage parents. I didn't have a big family. And so you're right. When a family swooped in and tried to be, you know, basically adopt me, it was very seductive for me. And I also wanted, you know, I wanted everybody to get along. I wanted the show to be successful. And that was part of that. There were no angels. There were no demons. We all had bad days. We all had good days. We all could have behaved better.

at certain points, but there was a lack of awareness of a bigger, broader picture of just being, like you said, grateful to have a job and to be doing something that we liked and to be in a position of power to do something that we liked was not something that happens easily or normally or routinely.

Well, we are out of time for today, but there is so much more I want to talk to you guys about. So everyone, please join me next week for part two of my interview with Holly Marie Combs. Until next time.

Maybe you've noticed that when it comes to business, the people who succeed tend to be the people who seek out partners with skills or knowledge that they don't have. And that's what Lenovo's free online membership program, Lenovo Pro, can do for small businesses. If you're not a tech expert, that's where Lenovo can help. So you can add Lenovo's team to yours and then lean on them for all your tech questions.

So to join Lenovo Pro, visit Lenovo.com and unlock new AI experiences with Lenovo's ThinkPad X1 Carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors.

That's F.

I'm Victoria Cash, and I want to invite you to a place called Lucky Land, where you can play over 100 social casino-style games for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes.

So what are you waiting for? The best way to discover your luck is to spin. So go to LuckyLandSlots.com. That's LuckyLandSlots.com. And get lucky today at Lucky Land. No purchase necessary. VTW Group. Void where prohibited by law. 18 plus. Terms and conditions apply.