Friendship Breakups: Right or Wrong?
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Hi culties! It's Issa Medina here, former host and co-creator of Sounds Like a Cult podcast. I wanted to let you know that I'm doing a live comedy show in New York City on August 24th and I would love for you to get tickets. You can get tickets at the link in this episode description. My comedy show is called Problematique where I invite on some of my favorite stand-up comics in New York City to try a new funny problematique bit.

as well as their traditional comedy. It's going to be so much fun, so funny. I'm inviting only my favorite comics in the city and I promise you're going to laugh so hard. It's going to be an ab workout. So if you want to come, get tickets at the link in this episode description or on my Instagram, linked below.

And now on to this week's feed-dropped episode of my new podcast, I'm Right, You're Wrong, where we debate whether friendship breakups are right or wrong. In classic fashion, we look at both sides and then we have a nuanced, giggly, and fun discussion.

A ton of you have listened here on the Sounds Like a Cult feed, but if you like my new show, it would mean so much to me if you went over to the I'm Right, You're Wrong podcast page, subscribed, followed the show, gave us a review, and listened to our episodes over there on my new podcast page. I hope you enjoy. Love you. And this is what my dad would always say is the mark of a good friendship. You see your friend after not seeing them for many years, and it feels like one of you just got back from going to the bathroom.

Actually, that will make me cry. Okay, cute. Oh my God, tears in your eyes. This is I'm Right, You're Wrong, a podcast about the everyday debates you have with your friends at brunch. I'm Issa Medina, and I'm a comedian. I'm Lydia Keating. I'm a writer and content creator. Every week, we debate a different topic. Right or wrong, staying friends with your ex? Right or wrong, Botox and fillers? Right or wrong, stay-at-home moms? To try and answer the question, all of us think about conversations.

Constantly. What does it mean to be a good person in your 20s? Or 30s. Or 40s. Or literally hundreds. Everyone is young and hot and cute forever. So true. Every week, our producer randomly assigns each of us a side to debate. We prepare and come ready to argue the most extreme take, right or wrong. We only have three uninterrupted minutes each to argue our side. And then we get into a little discussion about our favorite word. Nuance!

And yeah, how it's totally fine to agree to disagree. I mean, in this economy, it's actually the only thing we can afford to do. Today's topic, friendship breakups. And just a heads up, this episode was recorded before we started limiting our timed debates, but it's a good one. Yeah, it actually is one of my favorites. And authentic and raw and real. Oh, we are so vulnerable in this episode. It goes, it goes hard. Strap it.

Okay, we have so much to talk about and I feel like we've been holding off. We have. You've been in my house for like an hour now and I have something I'm sitting on. You've been standing in the corner facing the wall, avoiding talking to me just so you could spill. How was your week?

Well, I was in Switzerland. Oh, yeah. And I don't know if you remember when in our photo shoot with Jack. Yeah. We were talking about Xanax on a plane. And you're like, it's just so nice to like know it's there and have it. And you were like, do you want me to give you one? And I'm like, no, no, no. I'm like a seasoned traveler. Like, yeah, I'm like so good. Yeah. And on my flight back, I

I, well, in the Zurich airport, I had a panic attack. Yeah, it was actually really terrible. I call it my Zappa, my Zurich airport panic attack. What happened? I literally don't know, which was part of why it made it so scary. Like, and honestly, today's like one of the first days where I feel like, because after you have a panic attack, you feel fragile. Yeah, because you're scared it's going to happen again. Totally. And like that fear of like physical damage.

was actually, I think, like the main reason why the panic attack got to the point it got to, which was bad. But it was so weird. I was just in the Uber from my hotel to the airport and I started to get a little nauseous. And I was just like, oh, I always kind of get carsick. But then like the nausea felt like it traveled up into my chest. Yeah. And I was like, oh, this is a weird feeling. Like, let me just roll down the window. And then I was like, I found at one point I was like, it's not going away. I'm like, I just felt like,

I'm just like picturing you cracking the window and be like, yeah, just need like a little fresh air. And then you're just like full head out the window. It literally was what it was though. I can't get the air. And the Uber driver, he like couldn't speak English, but he had like the kindest energy and he was like, fresh air, good. And I was like,

I was like, uh-huh. And then tears started streaming. Oh, no. And I just didn't... I really didn't know what was wrong. And then I got to the airport and I was early and was just freaking out at the airport for three hours. And then I had to get on an eight-hour flight. Oh, no.

Oh, that is my literal worst nightmare, which is why I travel with Xanax. Oh, I'm getting a prescription. I'm going to give you some. Girl, I almost texted you when I got back to New York because I was like, I feel I'm worried it's going to happen again. And I know Issa's like my plug. Yeah, I'm locked in. But no, that's scary, but valid. This is a safe space. You can have panic attacks. If I was you, I don't know if this is good. I don't know if you're asking for advice. No, I am. I would literally just like, I...

I don't condone like vomiting. I really don't. Politically? Politically against. It's wrong. Don't do it. It's not good for you. Right or wrong? Vomiting. Wrong. Wrong. It's wrong. But if you're having a little panty, just kind of do it. And then sometimes you just get it out of you. Yeah. Because you do need a physical...

Or maybe you weren't, you were alone also, but like maybe someone can help you. It's like you need someone physically there, like hand on shoulder, breathing exercise. And I tried to reach out to the person standing in front of me in line. She was like, I think I started talking to her first. And then I go, I'm really anxious right now. And she goes, oh. Oh.

She was like so confused. No, I'm seeing my therapist next week. He's like on fucking vacation right now. But I was like... Why did the therapist take a vacation? I don't know. It's so unfair. Wrong. Okay, so tell me about your week. How have you been? Oh, just, you know, fine and dandy. No panic attacks? No, but I had similar symptoms in that I ran at half marathon on Sunday. Yes, she did, queen. It was a sleigh, city...

I ran it with, thanks to you, I know now that I ran it with Lil Nas X. Yes. My guy. Did you see him? No, I didn't, unfortunately. But yesterday I had horrible chest pains. Oh. And I was like, is this anxiety? So I took some CBD and I actually took Xanax the last two nights to fall asleep just because-

I really needed to rest. And when I've been running a lot, like I can't sleep well. It's such an interesting thing that happens to you because for me, it really helps me sleep. It helps me sleep if I run eight hours before I go to sleep. Yeah. But you're not a morning workout person. So you're going to run in the evenings and then that is going to keep you up, which actually is very normal exercise that people say, like, don't work out before you want to go to sleep. Yeah. And like,

The half marathon was really early in the morning, so I should have been totally fine by that night. But then I took a three hour nap after the half marathon. I saw that on the close friends. I was like, honestly, good for you. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I deserve it. Yeah, for sure. That's like a great like that's like the one time where you feel like it's permissible to take a three hour nap. Yeah. Yeah. And so then I was like, I'm going to take a Xanax just to fall asleep. And yeah.

I did. And then I still woke up with like chest pain. But then I realized after I took Advil that I think it's because I didn't wear a strong enough sports bra. And I do have boobs now. Yeah. Which I bought. Mm hmm. And they look great in the shirt, especially. Yeah. I like this shirt. Yeah, it's good. But I I just think that the boobs were really bouncing around for 13.1. Can I ask what brand of sports bra you are? Lululemon. Have you ever tried on? No.

No, but I would love to try it. They actually are crazy supportive. I can give you one because I have like two, a couple of colors. I think it was the problem was that like I, it was a sports bra t-shirt. It was a sports bra tank top. Oh yeah. Those are never. Yeah. And I, I had used it to run like a shorter run before. So I felt totally comfortable. And then I was like,

no, I need to be like choked with my sports bras. The built-in sports bras are cute. Like I love like a workout cami tank, but they're not, they're not going to hold up over like longer than I think five months. Yeah. Yeah.

Right or wrong, friendship breakups. Right. I mean, breakups is like a little much. I feel like, okay, it's valid sometimes. Yes, right, yeah. If done the right way, it's right. This is really hitting too close to home. I'm actually breaking up with my friend right now. Are you distancing or are you like having a conversation, like a breakup conversation? Had the conversation, now I'm distancing myself. Problem, she's my college roommate. Oh, so you live together? Yeah. So distancing won't happen for another month and a half. Yeah.

Topic of the week, friendship breakups. Right or wrong? Well, I feel you and I are just the right people to talk about it. We got a lot to talk about. We really do. Yeah. I feel just in our regular life, you and I come to this topic quite a bit. Yeah. It's almost how we have come together in many ways. We're the two toxic ones. Yeah.

No, I'm not toxic. We are self-aware queens. We are. No, but I think to talk about friendship breakups, we kind of have to define a couple of things first. Yeah. For it to be a friendship breakup, it has to be someone, I wrote these three things. There has to be length, quality, proximity, and frequency. Oh, you think proximity is important? And not physical proximity, emotional proximity. Okay.

You know, like... Look at you defining things. Yeah. I'm very impressed. Yeah. I would agree with all of... Wait, go through them again. Length of friendship, quality of friendship, emotional proximity, and frequency of communication. Okay. The only one I'm going to push back on is...

I feel like some people have those types of like really intense friendships that are like bright, burn bright, die quickly. That are like three months long. And it's like a fever dream where you're like, I met like my like soulmate, my twin flame. And then like,

people have friendship breakups with those types of people which for me has never happened I could never imagine getting that close with someone in three months I feel like I have been on the receiving end of someone trying to do that with me yeah and I'm like no this is weird yeah but I know people who have had that that's a really good point Diane thank you so much no but actually that's a really good point um because actually I think that's when most friendship breakups happen it's with those big burn bright burn fast and then you have to yeah

Yeah. Well, I actually had a different thought about when most friendship breakups happen. A lot of the times it happens in your early twenties. And I think that is such a pivotal moment in like your maturation as a social being, because it's when you graduate from college and you're moving on into the real world, you get a real job. You have to like literally rely on yourself to have shelter, to have food. And I think that changes your,

the boundaries of um friendship and best friendship totally and I think like a point that goes into what you just said is kind of like um like the way how much money people are making like I saw this TikTok of this girl the other day being like this is a really hot take but like I'm no longer gonna be friends with people who don't make as much money as I make because I went on a trip with this girl and like I offered to pay for the Airbnb because she couldn't afford it and then she like

Didn't even invite me out to dinner like once, which I actually think is kind of fucked up. Yeah, that is like you kind of like there are these like underwritten things where it's like if you're giving you're giving you kind of like give back a little bit where you totally. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it's very unspoken. But in early 20s, actually, I think it happens more.

multiple times in your twenties because early twenties is like, you get your first job mid twenties. Maybe you get your first promotion late twenties. It's like, maybe you stay in the same lane and keep growing or completely pivot your career. And so there's so many different times in your twenties where you're like fluctuating for your quality of life to completely change. And like, it's like, are your friends, your friends fit into that? Yeah. I also like,

when I'm thinking about that time post-college and like, who, who, who are you growing with and who are you growing away from? Like, I also think expectations between friendships like changes a lot. And I don't know about you, but in college, like my group of friends who, a lot of them were also my teammates, like I would do anything for them. Like if they needed something, I would like drop, I would miss class. I would like, like, I will be there for you. And that was like a big,

a big part of like our closeness that I had like, I would say three people I can think of who I had this level of friendship with. And then I, that reminds me of like one of the biggest friendship breakups of my life. Really? My best friend from college. I had blanked. I had a friend like that. Really? Drop everything kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that was almost like that unsaid rule was almost part of like the strength of our friendship. Like it was like pretty necessary that we both, that we had this with each other. Um,

And then when I graduated and like you actually have real world responsibilities, unlike college where like a lot of times people's parents are paying for their housing, for their food, like there isn't real world responsibility on your shoulders.

you leave college and you realize like, oh, I don't have like the emotional space or like the financial or the time space to be able to drop everything for friends anymore. That's only an expectation I would have for a romantic partner. Yeah. And let's talk about it because as a bisexual woman, I do be doing that for girlies. I am dropping left and fucking right for the girls. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, we're not dating. Yeah.

We're just friends. Yeah. And you don't have a job. And I'm unemployed. And I like truly like the last, I think the pandemic was, thank God I found the therapist I found when I found her because I have gone through so much with her.

Where I'm like learning, I've learned about boundaries so much. And like, I used to blame other people for me dropping everything. They never told me to drop everything. It's like, I've had friends who have never asked me to drop everything. I have literally like dropped everything for them just because it's like, I wanted to be there for them. And then I'm like, I've just learned so much about being like, oh, like you didn't ask for that.

I just expected the world from you because I was giving you the world and I need to learn how to set boundaries. Yeah. Because I feel like on being on the other side of that, when someone does something that's like kind of outrageously generous and selfless, I'm kind of like, whoa, what are you doing? Cause like now I'm a little uncomfortable because I don't, I'm not looking for the type of friendship where I would do this for you.

Yeah. And I don't want to let you down. It does create like, not that I think you were coming from a selfish place, dropping everything, but like in a way it gives like from a gay place. Yeah. Gay and like wanting to manufacture that closeness that like, honestly, we're all looking for and we all want, but like some people don't want because they're either fulfilled in another relationship or they don't want it. Maybe specifically with you. Yeah. But like so rude. Yeah.

is not in love with me, which is very clear. No, but yeah, no, it's true. And I think like, I think the, I've learned a lot about the boundaries that I need to set. And that being said, there are some times where I'm like, I talk about this with my therapist all the time, but I,

really I love being there for people like I love like helping people through things I love giving advice and so now it's like I'm learning to not expect it in return necessarily yeah it's kind of like

That same rule of like, oh, let me get you a drink. It's like if I get drinks, it's because I want to get drinks. It's not because I expect you to get drinks next time. It's because I'm like, slay, I'm feeling so generous. Like when sounds like a cult first started to pop off and I was starting to make money for the first time in my life. Such a great feeling. Girl.

Anyone who was my friend can tell you I was the nicest bitch. I was buying drinks left and motherfucking right. I was putting $300 dinners on my tab. I was talking to my friend Amanda Miller the other day and she was like, I met you right when Sounds Like a Cult was popping off. And she was like, my first thought about you was, this girl is so nice. And

That's because I was making money and I was like, why not spend it on the people you love? Yeah. Which kind of proves my point of what I'm saying, what I was saying earlier about like your college friends, like you would do anything for each other because in a way you kind of did have that money. It wasn't yours, but like you had it. And so you had the money to give you at the generosity to get the dining table.

like swipes. Yeah. You had that like ethos of like, I can do anything for you. Yeah. Cause I love you. Yeah. And then, yeah, when you, I guess like don't have that, you're coming from like that scarcity mindset that I think, yeah. Limits how close you can be with people. Totally. Exactly. Yeah.

And so I'm going to be a little podcasty right now, but just to like bring it back to like the definition of like what is a friendship and then what, what, like how do we define a friendship and how do we define a breakup? I think we've kind of landed on like the friendships that we're talking about in this debate are like,

really good friendships. Yeah. So are we, but are we including the, the, like the fast burn as well? Okay. So I think it's like, maybe I think you're definitely right on like the length of the friendship. It's almost like maybe three months. It's almost like, you know, when you like meet someone on hinge or in person, like you meet someone that you date for three months, it's almost like a bigger heartbreak because of what could have been. So I think we include that.

We include best friendship and three month fast burn friendships in this debate of the friendship breakup. Okay. Is it right or wrong? Okay. To completely and to define the breakup. Is it right or wrong to completely cut somebody out of your life? Right. That's the breakup. Yeah.

Right or wrong, friendship breakups? Right. I think it's depending on the friendship. If they're serving you, they're going through a hard situation, wrong. Be there for them, stick it through. But if it's just shit and you know it, trim the fat. Some friendships are temporary and you have to move on depending on what happened in the conflict. But it's always sad.

Okay, so Lydia and I are going to debate friendship breakups. Are they right or wrong? Like, is it right or wrong to completely cut a friend out of your life? And I'm going to argue that it is right. It's actually...

only right. And doing anything else is wrong because it's important to fully cut off people because it allows you to focus on your own growth and your own mental health and the ability to not be triggered by your relationships. So that's like kind of the first reason. The second reason is because we're all on our own path. And just because I cut you out of my life doesn't

doesn't mean that you don't like the person right like I think there's this theory on TikTok that's called it's I don't know if it's a TikTok theory or it's like a psychology theory but it's like the let them theory yes you heard of that one so there's that theory that it's like let them

If they don't want to talk to you anymore, let them. If they cut you out of their life, let them. There are so many things in life that we cannot control. And what you can control is who you surround yourself with and who you choose to love and who you choose to give time to. And some of the few things that we have like in this life is like time and resources. We have unlimited love for sure. Mom vibes. I love that you just said that. It's really wonderful. But we don't.

I'm a good person, but we don't have unlimited time. And so I think if you want to prioritize your time on the people that you do love, it's important to sometimes snip, snip. And my final point is stats. I have some stats. Um,

According to the American Survey Center, we make just 29 real friends in our lifetime and only six of them last. Wow. And then there was another study which chartered the social lives of 2,000 people and it showed that we lose touch with almost 50% of friends that we make. Wow. I would guess actually even higher. Yeah. I would have guessed higher. And so my question is,

what kind of person are you going to be? Are you going to be the kind of person who lets that drag out? Or are you just going to cut it off and save time? One of the biggest lessons I learned in grad school, and it has to do with like nonprofits and also business as a business person,

One of the best things that you can do is to recognize failure. If you recognize that you're failing in someone, end it, cut it off, move on to the next. And that's like a business mindset. Sunk cost sort of thing, right? Yeah. Or avoiding sunk cost. Yeah. A lot of like CEOs and people will say like, if your business is failing, move on to the next business. And in a way it's like, why don't we approach friendships in that way? You know, if it's failing and you recognize it's failing, cut it off, move on to the next. And

And so my closing argument is that in order to move on, grow as a person, become the best person that you can and find those friendships that you are going to have for life, you have to break up with the friends that aren't working. And that's why friendship breakups are correct. Okay. Wow. Thank you.

I am arguing against friendship breakups and why they shouldn't happen. And I prepared some, you know, I prepared some research and some arguments. My biggest argument against friendship breakups is that there is so obviously a better alternative, which is just distancing yourself politely from someone.

Less dramatic, much chiller. And well, the most important thing is that it leaves room for you to potentially grow back into that person and into that friendship. I think a thing you talked a lot about is growth. And I totally see that. Like we are ever changing beings and you never are. You're always an active becoming and it's important to surround yourself. It's important to surround yourself with people who support your growth and

But as much as it's important to grow and live many lives, you don't want to outgrow your past life so much that you become this untethered being floating through life, bouncing from one identity to the next. Because most of all, we are defined by our relationships. So if you cut ties one after the other and you set the precedent that friendship breakups are okay, who do you become?

I think also one of the great, great, great joys of life is rehashing shared memories with friends. And what a beautiful thing it is to be sitting with an old friend on a couch talking about something that happened five years ago when we were juniors in college and we were at that basketball frat. Girl, you're aging us. You actually made us younger. Oh, okay. Five years ago? I don't think I was a junior. Two years ago. Two years ago, I was four years old. Yeah.

Like that is like one of, I don't know about you, but I love nothing more than catching up with an old friend and bringing up shit. And like, well, even, you know, my, um, my storage unit got broken into and I called my friend and I also told her about my panic attack. And she was like, this makes this tracks. Like you've always, since you were like five years old, been afraid of home invasions and of intruders. She's like, you literally slept with a knife next to your bed. And I was like,

Oh my God, you're so right. And then we were like chuckling about that with each other. And what a beautiful thing it is to have a friend who has known me since I was five years old. Have you had moments where you've been in and out of each other's lives? For sure. But I hold on to that friendship. Partly because on principle...

and I know I'm now talking about personal stuff and I didn't mean to, but on principle, I think there is something so important about having friends who knew you, knew earlier iterations of yourself. Because we've changed, like we both have changed so much. I've changed so much. But I think there's,

this like inherent importance in staying continuing connections with people who knew you before you tried to become all the things you wanted to become. And then the other thing that's like more of a pragmatic reason why friendship breakups are just like so extreme is

is that you are jeopardizing also your mutual connections with that person. Like then, then your mutual friends have to go through this dance of who, whose side am I taking? Who, who is my friend? We were talking earlier before we started recording about how painful it is when you see a friend of yours hanging out with someone who is, um, your declared enemy. Yeah. And that, and then, so you're basically forcing all your friends. Once you go through a friendship breakup, you're forcing all those mutual friends to have to,

to pick a side. And then that inevitably is going to lead to hurt more hurt for you because friends that you like are going to pick the side of the friend you're breaking up with. And it's going to be painful unnecessarily because this gets to my main thesis argument, which is that I totally get the impulse to want to no longer be friends with someone, but there are ways about it that protect peace.

in a way that's better for you and for them that don't require this big dramatic conversation of like, we're done. But then there's also the friendship breakups that go no contact. So my question to you is like, how long can you go no contact with someone until it's declared a breakup or it's declared you're both just taking your time? Like how many times do you ignore someone's text before someone gets the point of being like, oh, we're no longer friends? Because you're saying...

you can have space between people and then you can come back together. How long, like for example, you and your friend who have known each other since you were kids, how long would you say you would have had to go without talking to her for you to be like, yeah, we're not friends anymore? I think with this friend, we could go 15 years and I would see her and we would, and this is what my dad would always say, is the mark of a good friendship. You see your friend after not seeing them for many years and it feels like one of you just got back from going to the bathroom.

Actually, that will make me cry. Okay, cute. Oh my God, tears in your eyes. But yeah, I just think that like a friendship breakup where you fully ghost someone or you have a conversation of like we're breaking up is the most extreme. And there are steps before that that basically allow for more healing and potential healing

of the friendship years down the line. And what's the harm in that? Breaking up with your friend is the wrong thing to do because it doesn't leave any space for healing. I think breaking up with a friend is the right thing to do because you can't be friends with everybody and you need space to take care of yourself. Okay, so Lydia, what do you actually feel about friendship breakups? Do you think they're right or do you think they're wrong? I actually think generally I think they're right.

And, um...

As much as I do, like, stand by what I said, like, I genuinely do think that friendships that last many, many years are, especially friendships from your childhood, those are very precious relationships, but not all of them are built to last. And so the ones for me that have lasted are unique. And a lot of them have faded away or we have had somewhat kind of, like, dramatic changes.

I wouldn't say endings, but like dismantlings. Yeah. Um, so the reason I think like this conversation, this part of the conversation is so important is because there's so much nuance in everything that we're talking about. We were just debating the extremes, right? Like, is it right or is it wrong? And the thing is everything you said, I also completely agree with in that, like it is maybe healthier to take space. So what I was going to say about this friend is like,

This was one of my best friends and I will name him by his name. His name is Nick. She's naming. I'm naming. She's got the names. Because I... She's brave. Because I'm brave and I have formally decided to categorize it as a friendship breakup. That does not mean I'm not open though if he reached out to me and was like, hey, I miss you.

But the reason it's a breakup in my mind is because I'm done. I'm done, baby. I'm done putting in the effort. That was one of those relationships where he was my best friend from college. And I started to do that check where I was like, oh, we only ever talk when I call him or we only ever talk when I reach out. And then we planned the ski trip and it was like my birthday ski trip. And a week before the trip, he's like,

Hey, he actually, he didn't even text me. He texted my friend Tori and he was like, Hey, I'm not coming on the trip anymore. Like I did get a job offer, so I feel good, but like I haven't signed the paperwork. So like, I just want to like take it easy on spending money. Texted her, did not text me. And Tori's like, Hey, can, Hey, like Nick isn't coming anymore. Do you think you can find someone else to like fill in the Airbnb? And I was like,

it's a week out my guy. Like what? So I texted him. I was like, dude, are you serious? Like, it's fine if you cancel, but like you kind of have to pay for your part of the Airbnb. Like it's really expensive. He didn't text me back. He has not texted me in two years. And this was the best friend from college. This is my best friend from college. Like there's videos of us in college where like he would like take off my makeup for me. Like it's like, it's really sad. And there's a lot of parts of me that feel like,

Um, that was his last straw maybe with like me not empathizing enough with him for his job or like he maybe felt like I would have gotten really mad at him if he had talked to me first. But that was kind of what I was referring to of like, I'm an empathetic person. I can hear you out if you come with me, if you come to me with like space and vulnerability and an apology, kind of like you said, I'm there to like hear you out. But like,

You don't even give me the space. You went to Tori. Yeah. Now you're not talking to me. So like I categorize that as a friendship breakup, even though we didn't ever have a conversation, which is why I think there's so much nuance. Totally. And that is so interesting because I'm like...

I'm trying to understand where you are with it. And it seems like you've closed the door on it, but like the screen, the window with the screen is open. Yeah. And you're willing to let like you have forgiveness in your heart. I've already forgiven. Yeah. I've already. But I think the root of the issue for me with him was already the lack of effort. So I'm like, why should I be the one to check in? Yeah. When I was already doing all that before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm in an interest. I'm like kind of in the middle of potentially a friend friendship breakup right now. And for me, I'm like really twiddling my thumbs about like whether I want to like do it or not because it's the one we've talked about. Yeah, it's the one we've talked about and it's the one where he was like, I just need space.

And she was like, can we have a date where we like talk? And I was like, great idea. And the date's like coming up like a couple of days. Yeah. We said it like three months ago and now it's coming up. And I weirdly feel like I still feel the same kind of like dread and like frustration that was there three months ago, which was the reason why I asked for space. And so I'm kind of like,

Why? I don't want to get into all of the reasons why I felt like I needed this space because it would just take too long. And also, yeah, I don't want to air her business. Well, I think...

To your point of like just even like the substance of it. Like you guys kind of set a date and that's inherently confrontation. And so I feel like you're like in a place where it sounds like you are okay with putting space on it and you haven't... You don't feel good. Like there's no resolution inside of you. So a confrontation maybe feels like it's not the move right now because like you haven't gotten over whatever it is that you were feeling. No. Yeah. And I want to... I do...

I don't think I want to like break up with her. Yeah. Because like I said, I really do cherish long friendships and I don't have that many of them. Yeah. Like,

part of the complexity of our whole relationship is like i don't feel like she really wants to hang out with me did you ever watch francis ha yeah do you know the line that's like don't treat me out don't don't treat me like a one-hour brunch friend yeah where and this is go this is like kind of goes back to the whole thing i was talking about like yes of like wait we saw each other in college at our lowest lows like i know like everything about you

and you know everything about me and like we we are best friends and now all of a sudden I feel like in this adult life that we're in you're like slotting me into like an hour and 15 minute calendar chunk there is no worse feeling than than feeling like you're slotted into somebody's calendar correct I saw a TikTok of this girl being like I love my friends where we get it's a three drink dinner

Did you see that one? No, but I didn't. Yeah, it's like a three-drink dinner and you have no plans afterwards. Yes, that's what I want. Where is the night taking us? I want to hang out with my friend who I'm going through this rift with. I want to hang out with her and her not have anything to go to afterwards. I want us to just fucking chill together. And she always has...

like five plans still packed in the day. And I'm like, okay, like I just feel like I'm at this check in a box. Yeah. Yeah. That is kind of getting into the reason for it. But, but this is also getting into the reason why I don't really feel like hanging out because it is so stressful scheduling a hang. Because again, like I am this, like we have to find like the small sliver in our calendars where also I feel like I do a thing, just a little moment of self-awareness where like, if I feel like they're being hard to, yeah, I'm like, well, I'm unavailable.

Yeah. I know. Whenever someone asks me for my avails, I'm like, let me let, let me check my calendar. I open my calendar. It's like open every day, nine to 5 PM. I have like one show at 8 PM. It's like,

I know, but then like the problem with us. Someone should make a meme of like a dog standing in front of an empty calendar and it's like, let me check my calendar. And they just have like one walk a day. I know, but I do think this is like something so specific to us where we both don't have a job, but

Yeah. We have a job. We have jobs. We have jobs. We have jobs. We just start in charge of our own calendar. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I choose to leave it blank. And that's a choice of a self-employed body. And also, by the way, it's like someone who has a day job, like you're not...

glued eyeballs to the screen nine to five it's like people are scrolling people are texting people are sending each other memes you know especially except for my boyfriend oh yeah he's literally a chef yeah yeah yeah which by the way when when's that guy gonna cook for us soon soon he cooks for you all the time but yeah yeah on the patio when I have my party yeah some of you guys might be invited and if you're not invited take that as a sign that you have been broken up with exactly

Um, so we've debated this to the extreme. Yes. I argued that friendship breakups are right. You argued that they're wrong. And then we talked about how there's obviously nuance and it's okay. First of all, that's why we're making this podcast. It's okay to agree to disagree. But what do you think? Um, like how has my opinion changed? Has it changed? And where do you stand? Yeah.

Well, I definitely found when I was preparing for this podcast, convincing myself that I was like, oh, wait, the argument I'm arguing for is actually the correct argument. And I find myself after talking with you like right back kind of to maybe like the middle of like, yeah, there's nuance. It's really context dependent. And there isn't really a blanket right or wrong rule for friendship breakups. How do you feel? I agree. I think that.

If there was a third option, which would be to, I think it's right to be okay not talking to someone. But like, I do think that like a conversation, unless someone did something like objectively wrong, horrible, like had an affair with your boyfriend or like stole money from you, unless it's something like that requires confrontation, the best option is to

fall out fall out and if you need to have a talk of like hey I'm just taking space right now I don't want this friendship to end I just really need the space which is kind of what I did like I think that's a good I mean it's kind of worked out for me where I still have a lot of love for this person but I'm like I love you so much I just need some space yeah um you're really persuasive thank you you really are you have a you didn't even know what side you were arguing in this game

And then you just crushed it. So I'm like, yeah, you won. Okay, thanks. I think that it was pretty equal because you convinced me to. I also know that you were doing a really good job because I was taking everything you said so personally. I was like, did she read my diary? Yeah.

Yeah. That one thing though that I said about being like an untethered like being just floating. Yeah. Like when I'm depressed. Yeah. That's like that's the visual I have in my brain of like who I am. I'm like I'm connected to no one and nothing if I just deleted. Yeah. That's like someone's like worst enemy is thinking of yourself as like not having friends. Yeah. Because you've set boundaries or something like that. Yeah. I saw this hilarious reductress meme that was like I protected my peace and now I'm bored. Yeah.

That I think that is the title of it. It's like, yeah, I protected my piece and now I'm just like a floating non, non important spec in the universe who has no connections to anyone. Yeah. We've talked about, no, we've talked about this. I think we've talked about this a little bit with, and then we should wrap it up. But like, that's why I think it's so important to be in tune with politics, even though they hurt sometimes, even though it hurts to know the truth and the realities and the hardships of the world. Because I think that,

like in order to truly feel joy, you have to also feel sadness. And I think like emotions are,

They run along a spectrum and it's like you said, it's like if you protect your peace fully, like you're just floating around. You're living under a rock. Yeah. But also floating on a rock. You're under a rock floating in the universe. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for listening to this episode. Thanks, guys. You did the right thing. Yeah, this was right. Correct. Correct. Morally sound for you to listen to the whole episode. And let us know what you think. Are friendship breakups?

right or wrong vote on the poll on instagram tell us your stories also if it feels cathartic to share in any comment section whether it's youtube instagram your friendship breakup story please do yeah we over we're here to overshare we're here on the internet so yeah and like and subscribe baby yeah

I'm Right, You're Wrong podcast was created, hosted, and produced by Lydia Keating and Issa Medina. This episode was edited and produced by Alexandra Trigvadotir.