Josh & Sav on Racism, Childbirth & Raising 2 Under 2
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Being like an interracial couple that comes with just a whole nother layer of unnecessary hate. People will think that we're like not together. Like we're on the train, on the subway, and this African-American lady, she said, oh, you don't like chocolate. We made something that could have been controversial. On TikTok, you can see like the message request and you can see the block.

comments and stuff like that. And I'm looking at those and I'm like, why do I keep looking at these comments? People were really trying to like cancel us. Every day is different with 202. And I know I didn't push out the baby. I know you guys are going through so much, but I want her to get older. Like now I want them both to be toddlers.

Thank you to HelloFresh and Jenny Kane for sponsoring this episode. What's up, dudes? And welcome back to the Unplanned Podcast. Give it up. Dude, if someone was turning this on as their first thing as they're getting ready in the morning, that's a little too much. That is. Can you

We are joined today by content creators Josh and Sav. Let's give it up for Josh and Sav. So happy that you guys made the trip out here to Arizona after you just moved across the country to Oregon with two kids under two. I don't know. You guys are insane. I don't know how we're doing it, honestly. Still, like, are we doing it? Yeah, I don't know. We literally just moved.

two weeks ago now or three weeks ago yeah two weeks ago and um we our house is still in shambles right now we still have like boxes and stuff and we were packing i was like what are we doing yeah like packing a suitcase but still not unpacked that's something we would do yeah yeah it's like but i don't know we we're excited to be here though we were like we weren't gonna miss this for anything so let's make this trip to arizona take a little trip a little vacay even though like we just moved even though it's so hot and we can't breathe outside

What do you think about the heat? It's like 115 out today. Yeah. And it's September. But it's oddly overcast. Yeah, right now it is overcast. I think what got me was the wind hit me and I was like, yeah, I'm like, oh my God, it's a nice like breeze, but it's like so hot. The wind is like worse than like just still. Yeah. I walked out of the airport with the hoodie on and I was like,

Yeah, I had to change both of the girls in the bathroom into like different outfits because I'm like, it's so hot. Like you guys can't go outside in leggings and like a onesie. Like you need to. Yeah. So anyways, but we love it. It's great.

Yeah. Yeah. It's hot. It is so hot. Yeah. I think this was the last summer that we are going to be here for the months of July and August because, oh my gosh. Well, it's September right now. Yeah. I mean, it is September, but it's a little bit better right now than it was in July and August. Yeah, it's better. Shockingly, it gets worse. You just can't go outside with your kids. Wait, it gets worse? No, it's way worse than it is right now. It's 110 today. What's worse than 110? It'll get up to 125 or something. No, it doesn't get up to 125.

Are you even supposed to go outside? Is it considered unsafe at all? I mean, you just sweat a lot. You kind of just deal with it. But I can only, when it's, I mean, the hottest I'll really take my son out on a bike ride will be like 100. And we're only out for like 15 minutes because the poor thing gets so hot. But I want to take him outside. I don't want him to be inside all day. He gets so sweaty under his teddy bear helmet. Yeah, he gets sweaty. But he loves it. He loves to just like wave at the birds.

the birds but enough about enough about us i'm so curious how are you guys handling two under two right now is is it has it been good has it been bad has it been everything in between like what what's the lowdown on that go for it you started off i feel like we we have different answers like i for me 202 is definitely like it's tough but

But it's a lot easier than it was. Like the transition from zero to one was way harder on me than the transition from one to two. Like night and day different. Like I really struggled postpartum with our first. But this time around, I think my postpartum, like experience my hormones, all that has been so much easier. So I think all around the experience just feels, I'm like, oh, this is like,

Fine. But I feel like you have a different. It's not that I have a different answer. It's just, I don't know that both of our, I love our daughter so much. I feel like I have to, I have to preface that sometimes because I just get attacked because our second one, she's just totally different than the first one. She's like sass.

She is very sassy or whatever. And I just, I'm at a point where I just think I'm okay with having two kids. And only just because, and I feel like that's okay to think, right? You know, but only just because of her temperament. Is that the right word? I feel like I shouldn't use the word temperament with a three month old. But like, we just know. We call our second, what do we call him? We say he's temperamental. Yeah, tiny is temperamental. Okay.

These nicknames for our kids, it's so funny. Yeah, like for a little bit we called our oldest Griffin We call them Bob. I don't even know why we call them the governor the governor. We would know hello governor Like completely different names like even boy name sometimes go ahead and tell like we'll call like like what? Our girls Dante

Like, where's Dante coming from? Yeah, no. Wait, what? Yeah, no, where's Dante coming from? Like, come here, Dante. But we used to call each other random names. That's where it's coming from. It's, like, really strange. Like, just any old name. Yeah. Like, not, like, a cute nickname. Just, like, Zach. What's your nickname? Zach. Zach. What do you call Sav? What's, like, the weirdest nickname you've called Sav? I've been calling her Cheryl lately. Cheryl? Cheryl.

Cheryl. Wait, let's settle this debate right now. Wait, Cheryl? Is that a man or woman's name? I don't even know. It's okay. No, it's okay. Do you guys pronounce it Cheryl? Cheryl. He's trying to say Cheryl. I have an aunt Cheryl. It's Cheryl. I have an aunt Cheryl. He says Cheryl. It is not Cheryl. Okay, it's Cheryl. I literally said that and I feel crazy. It's like Daryl and Daryl. Okay, but I feel like I know a Daryl.

And right now I know someone at home is a girl. You know a girl? I think I know a girl. Or maybe I just called her a girl. I'm literally crying. I'm crying. I can't. Anyways. Two under two. Okay. I think it is. I think this is harder for me. And I know I didn't push out the baby. I know you guys are going through so much. But for some reason, I think a newborn is harder than a toddler. And that's just that. I don't know.

I don't know what it is, dude. But like, I can sit, we were talking before the podcast about how we're both like, you know what? Like, I think, I think two kids is great, whatever. And our wives are like, let's keep making babies. I was going to tell him, I'm like, let's collect them all.

Yeah, and I know this is not true for every couple. This is like, I don't know. But I just feel like, I don't know. There has to be something in the biology there because I just watched her go through all this pain. I'm like, surely she's done with all that. That was not fun. Why would you want to do it again? Thank you for having our kids, by the way. I appreciate that. I don't really look at it as bad. I'm like, yeah.

And Abby's like, let's have another. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I feel the same. Yeah. I think it's just, it's so funny how that works. I think they're just built for this. Like literally. And like you guys even having that conversation

attitude and like wanting to do it that's just goes to how super super uh human you guys are that's what i was trying to say yeah yeah yeah thank you thank you no problem but yeah no it's definitely different and we're learning as we're going to like every day is different with 202 our youngest she's just turned three months yesterday our oldest will be two in a few months and just

Like, there's wins. Like, the wins are, like, seeing our oldest being so cute around her little sister. And now seeing our three-month-old, she's starting to smile. And, like, you know, starting to do, like, little chuckles. So, like, and then, like, she'll sleep through the night every once in a while. And we feel like we're, like, the coolest when that happens. But then she doesn't do it for, like, a whole month. What happened? I punched the mic on accident. Nice. Yeah.

But yeah, no, like there's give or take with it. Yeah, I feel like we have a lot of friends that have newborns right now. All their newborns are so good. Like they don't make a peep. They can like just set them down. Like they literally set them down. And they don't cry. For hours. Okay, whenever people are around us, they're like, she's such a good baby. And I'm like, I feel like she shows off.

When she's around other people. In front of people. Because I'm like, she is a good, like, she's not like a bad baby or like super hard. But I don't know. I feel like whenever we're around other people, both of our girls are like just little angels and like amazing. And then everyone's like, they're so good. I'm like, well, yeah, you're seeing like a fraction of what we experience all the time, you know. But yeah. There's just such a range to what people experience with the newborn stage. Because it's like, he's not bad. He's the best little baby ever. He's just having a hard time.

- He's literally learning about something he didn't know about. - Yeah, and he's not loving it. Like he liked it better before. - Yeah, it was way easier when I didn't have to work hard yet. - And it's hard with "202" 'cause I see my one year old and just how much freaking fun he is and how his personality is just,

just coming out of nowhere and he just wants me to throw him in the air and like do like I don't know we just have so much fun together and I'm like man I just can't wait to I can't wait for that with with my with my youngest but I also know like I can't I can't wish these years away though that's true that's very true yeah I feel like we're similar in that like right now I'm in the phase of like I can't wait till she's older and I can coach her soccer team and I can like you know take her to dance like do all these things um

And then like the youngest, and Savannah gets on me about this, but I want her to get older like now. I want them both to be toddlers. Yeah, she wants them to stay little. And I get it. I understand because they're babies. And this is why you guys want more kids because they grow so quick. But I'm just like, I need her to be at the same level as Rye.

I need her to catch up. I need her to catch up. Yeah, but she's slowing me down. I truly enjoy it though. Before we started the podcast, Savannah, you were talking about how you had this crazy situation with your placenta. What? Straight to it. And we were like, wait, hold that thought. We got to discover this for the first time when we're just like chatting it out. So what happened? I'm so curious. So have you guys heard about getting your placenta encapsulated?

Yes. Turn into like... Pills. Yeah, I guess like a supplement or whatever. You take it after birth and it's supposed to help with postpartum depression. I don't know. There's a lot of benefits. I don't know all the ins and outs, but...

So I was like, sure. Like, why not? I'll do it. This is with your first or your second? First. Okay. Yeah. So I was like, okay, I'm going to encapsulate, encapsulate my placenta. I like, they send you everything you need for it. Like they send you like the freezer, they send you all this stuff and then you take it to the hospital or like if you do a home. Oh, they do it all for you. Yeah. They do it all for you. So they like,

the doctor, you just have to let them know, like, I'm keeping my placenta. They'll, like, pack it up for you, put it in the freezer, and then you take it. And you ship it yourself. Like, the way I did it. I'm sure there's, like, other ways to do it. But anyway, so I told, like, when we got there, I was like, I'm keeping my placenta, like, just so they know. Because I don't know what they do with them if... Does anyone know? What do they do with it if you don't keep it? Abby donated hers. I donated mine, but the first...

I literally think it just gets thrown away. Yeah. Wow. Okay. I mean, it is just like an organ after all. I don't know. Anyways. But yeah. So I was like, okay, we told them. We gave them the freezer and everything. And then everything was done. And I think after a certain period of time, they can't touch the placenta anymore. Okay.

Right? Yes. Because like infection or something like that. Something like they can't be responsible for like handling it. And they forgot that they were supposed to like pack it and put it in the freezer or whatever. Yeah, I guess like it didn't get out to all the nurses. So they didn't like do what they were supposed to do with it in order for us to like take it home. So it was just in this like plastic little like bin in the sink. Okay.

In the hospital? In the hospital, yes. In our room. Yeah, in our delivery room. And so we're like- Could you see it? Was it a clear bin? Yes, clear bin. Oh my gosh. A clear bin. Savannah's laying right here and the bin is just straight. So they just had to tell you we didn't freeze it, we just left it out? They were like, yeah, they were like, we-

even remember exactly. I don't think they told us. I don't think they told us. I think we just saw that it was there. And we had to get out. Yeah, we asked. We were like, can you guys, like, pack it in the thing so we can take it home or whatever? And then that's when they were like, after a certain period of time, like, we're not, whatever, like, supposed to touch it. And so we're like, okay, well. So I was like, okay, babe, well, I need you to, like, pack up my placenta then. I looked at her and said...

I just saw a baby come out and I don't know if I want to see anything or do anything else. And I was just like, are you serious? And cause I was, I was literally about to go get a nurse and be like, guys, I just do it. Like, I know there's protocol, but yeah, you have the scrubs on, like just, just do it. And they literally said that they couldn't. And so Josh put gloves on and like put, grabbed it out and like did it for me. Yeah. No, I literally felt like I was on Grey's Anatomy. Where'd you get the gloves?

That's a good question. I think I just found some gloves in the room. I was, like, so out of it. Like, I don't know. Like, I just gave birth for the first time. Like, I have no idea what's going on. Were we going home that day? I think so. So, I was like, okay, we got to do. So, wait, so did my placenta sit out then? Was it, like, rotten? Babe, honestly, I don't know. Did you still take it? I took it. It was rotten.

And you had postpartum depression the first time? How long did you take it, though? I actually, this is the thing. I didn't really do it properly because I, like, forgot about it. And then I was like, oh, it was, like, three weeks postpartum. I was like, oh, yeah, I forgot I was going to take that. And then I, like, stopped taking it. So I don't really, I can't speak to, like, if it works or not because I did not do it correctly. But just the fact that, like, you packed it, I don't know, that could play a part in the fact that maybe something's not right.

think it was right with that. Honestly though, because like guys, like I literally like just imagine you're in the hospital room and you're just by the sink and it's just over there and Savannah's in the bed and what was the problem was the fridge remember was across the room or what we had to take it in was across the room. I carried it over and like

It was dripping across the room. And I'm just like, what am I supposed to do? This is not my job. Okay, with birth, did it shock you at how much blood there was? Bro. Like, I wasn't expecting that at all. Both births. At all. Both births. I can't say that.

I didn't ever look or really know how much blood there was, to be honest. Really? Afterwards? Like when you had to, when I walked you to the bathroom, you didn't see all that blood? Well, after like, yes, like that. But like during, like I never saw what was going on. It did, bro. I didn't think it was going to be that much. I felt like it was going to be some blood, like, but like that much?

That was a lot. I feel like I was a little traumatized in a way. Okay. Just because of how... Just because of how... I kept telling Abby after the birth, I was like, thank you, thank you. I was like, you are a superhero. Yes. Like, you are so strong. I don't know how the freak you just did that. You did. You kept saying that. I was just like, thank you. And then she like... I felt so bad because she had to get stitches and tore... Like, we've all talked... We've talked about this. But I just was...

Oh my gosh. I was not expecting that at all. I didn't know what to expect. I think you just see so many like little like happy birth moments on TikTok and stuff. It's like, oh, it's so great. It's peaceful. But I did not expect for that. So... Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, when you're in that room, it's just like, especially the second time when we were... It was like...

Not a war zone, but like, okay. So you've seen the movies and like the TV shows to where like the mom who's pushing out the baby, she's like screaming, yelling, maybe like super aggressive. And like, and I feel like that's what you see on in movies and stuff like that. Our first one, it kind of wasn't like that. It was more like the most peaceful. It was pretty peaceful. She was pushing. And like, that was at this one though. And we shared this on our birth story. I was in a chokehold and,

And I was in a full chokehold while she was trying to push the baby out. She's saying like, I can't do this. I can't do this. I'm whispering in her ear. No, babe, you got this. You're super mute. It was crazy. It was like, you got this. But like, I was getting choked out. And I was like, this is actually happening. And then like, so we decided to not actually show like the birth this time on a social media or whatever. So I'm still filming it though for our sake or whatever. So I'm filming it on my phone and my neck is getting like pushed. And I'm like, I just need to drop the phone. I actually have not watched that film.

footage we haven't watched it I don't watch I don't really want to see no no it'll probably like a WWE match because like it's just like I like the c-section one that was peaceful the other one I watched it once just to approve it before it got posted and I'm like not for me like I don't want to hear any sound I made or anything like that yeah

Like it's like low key embarrassing for some reason. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Like that wasn't me, that was someone else. Right. And postpartum, was it easier with the first, easier with the second? Like how did you guys navigate that as a couple? And I don't know, yeah. What was your experience with that? Yeah, the first time was way harder for me. And so like they say, you know, like if you experience postpartum depression or anxiety immediately,

It can happen again, but it can also not happen again. Or you could experience it with your first and not your second or vice versa. And so I was just prepared, obviously, because I did experience it with our first. I was like, I want to be prepared and know that it is a possibility, but also not live in fear, thinking like, okay, this is going to happen to me again. So I actually had a lot of peace about having our second. And I've had no postpartum depression, no postpartum anxiety, nothing. It's like a night and day experience.

I had no idea about like you just mentioning postpartum depression, like seeing your videos, seeing your TikToks and how like fun and silly you guys are. Like I would have never guessed. And I think that just goes to show that literally anybody can face depression.

any sort of challenge and you just, you don't know. But I'm like, I'm so happy that this, this like other pregnancy, the second pregnancy has been so good. - Definitely. Yeah. No, like with, even with our relationship, it was especially the first time around, like we, we would have only been married for two years. - Yeah. - Yeah. We've only been married for two years, had our first baby and

God knows, like, we don't know what we're doing with this first baby. Like, we can read all the books and, like, go through all the classes and stuff like that. And baby comes and she's the most beautiful thing in the world. But like, oh, we got to take her home and take care of her. OK, cool. What about our marriage? Because, like, we're we're not seeing eye to eye with certain things right now. And that was that took a lot on us. I feel like.

And we've said this like in private, but like, I feel like that contributed to like her depression a little bit because like I'm over here trying to figure out what she needed and I'm

I'm first time dad or whatever. And what I was trying to do for her, that wasn't what she needed or whatever. And it was super tough for me to try to figure that out. And that was just causing like some strife sometimes in our marriage. And we saw you guys talk about like the sleep divorce. And like we definitely went through that. And I'll be real. It wasn't good for us. Really? We...

It caused, like, a lot of, like, division. And I don't know if that was the reason why, but, like, I would sleep in the guest room for people at home. I would sleep in the guest room. She would sleep upstairs. You would have, Rye? I forgot. Yeah, you would. No, that was when she started sleeping in her room. Oh, yeah, she would start sleeping in her room. So, and I was closer to her room if I slept in the guest room. So, I would go do the nights or whatever. And I, like, couldn't sleep if the monitor, if I could hear the monitor. Sick.

I didn't sleep. No. Even if she was asleep, I think so that was like a lot that contributed to like my anxiety. It's because you're waiting to hear something and then you'll keep yourself up all night waiting to hear something. Yeah, and I just hear the white noise. I hear that shh.

And that's like all here and I can't sleep. So I had you keep the monitor. But anyways, yeah, you were saying. Yeah, no. Yeah. Like it wasn't good for us. Yeah, it wasn't. And like we would wake up and we just wouldn't be on the same page. You would just like kind of sense just like a weird vibe in the house or whatever with. Right. And then like it could have everything to do with just us not sleeping, like being sleep deprived and all those things. So it was it took a toll on us with that. And yeah.

communication and just like other marriage things that are just natural without having a baby, just having, you know, little things like not sharing how you truly feel when you're in an argument or something like that or what else? Just like communication things that, you know,

problems that we just had before having a baby so it was tough this second time around though what were you gonna say I was just gonna say I feel like postpartum like the first time around was like the hardest thing we've ever been through which is crazy because I feel like sometimes women like obviously I'm the one that like directly was experiencing the like depression and anxiety but like

The person you're married to is also experiencing it. Almost just as much even... You know what I'm saying? Yeah, definitely. For the first time. It was both of us that really... Not that he had depression or anxiety, but you see what I'm saying? He was in it with me. So it was just really hard on both of us. But the second time around...

it like if i i describe it to people and i'm like it's just night and day like it's 180 from what i experienced the first time thank you to jenny kane for sponsoring this portion of today's episode fall is coming up even though it does not even slightly feel like it in phoenix quite yet what has it been like it's been really hot it's still like 110 degrees in phoenix we're still drinking pumpkin spice we're stoked we're drinking pumpkin spice lattes it's been awesome we're getting into the season and we are pulling out our sweaters i

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happy-go-lucky personality, and yet you just get smacked in the face. So quickly. So hard. Yeah. And it doesn't help that you're getting no sleep, and it doesn't help that, like, Abby was telling, we don't know, I still should look this up if this is true, but she told me that, she's like, I saw this on Instagram. It was an Instagram fact that she saw that, like, it's the equivalent, the hormonal change postpartum for women after they have a baby is, like, taking 100 birth control pills. I don't know, don't quote me on that. Oh my God.

Can someone fact check us in the comments? It's the largest hormone shift that any human will ever go through ever. Yeah, no, that makes sense. And literally I'm like, Matt, you do not understand. I am sweating right now. And I don't normally sweat like this. Like I'm sweating a lot. Like not now I'm getting better, but like the first week...

Oh, do you wake up, like, in a puddle? Like, I'm literally, like, the sheets are, like, soft. It's disgusting. It's horrible. I'm, like, I, there's, my boobs are not right. Like, everything's wrong. I emotionally feel like I'm on the craziest roller coaster. I just, like,

I'm hurting. I don't know what's going on in my life. I don't think I'm ever going to do anything I want to do again. Like, and like, you'll never understand. Yeah. Like they really can't. And it's crazy because as much as you try to understand, like they like simply cannot because you'll never feel like what we

felt. Yeah, it's one thing for you guys to tell us. And you can empathize with us, but to actually be able to experience it, that's just never good. They can't. And then a part of me is kind of mad about that. I'm like, you want to take one day? Just one day like this? No, that's so real though because literally there would be times if... Savannah would always say, I like to play basketball as a hobby. So Savannah would be like, yo, go out, go play basketball. I got the girls. Or with Rye, our firstborn, I got her. It's fine. But

I've known this girl for like five years and I'm like, I can see in her eyes she actually does not want me to leave. And I still leave. And now I'm hooping playing like, bro, I should have stayed home because like she actually didn't want me to leave or whatever. But like it's a tough situation because then I come home and maybe she wasn't sleeping and it was like a rough situation. And I'm just like, OK, whatever.

now i kind of know for next time you know it's like i don't know those are things you just learn it's because we want to be the chill wife but then yeah then i let you do it and i'm like okay never mind you get too far before you can't back out anymore yeah it's like oh wait he's actually gone you're like i'm not over committed you're like now i'm mad okay right though it's just yeah no it's yeah yeah that literally happened last night i was like now you want me to feed him because you were not like hopping up for the night the 230 feet and

I had a migraine, so I took an Excedrin migraine PM. Oh, you're zoinked. I was zoinked, okay? But, okay, I was totally going to change his diaper and feed him, but then Abby was like, oh, you want me to do it for you? I was like, okay, I'll make the milk. And I'm like, no, I can do it. And she's like, no, seriously, I can do it. And I'm like, are you sure? And she's like, yeah. And I'm like, are you sure? And then sure enough, this morning, we're getting some coffee at Dunkin' Donuts, and it comes up. I'm like, you offered. Like, what? No.

Why didn't you just... I was willing to do it, you know? Here's where the issue lies, is that you did not also do the morning then. I was like, you don't get to do both. Oh my gosh. We're going to talk about this off camera. It was the double whammy.

And now I got a headache. Now I have a headache thinking about it. Keep in mind, I did do the first night feed. You slept through that one. And I wanted you to. It's 10 p.m. I actually, I tried to get her. I was freaking a cakewalk. I was begging Abby to sleep through the 2.30 in the morning feeding and for me to do it and for her just to get to like, you know, nonstop sleep. Yeah. But she wouldn't do it because I think, it probably is partially because you don't want to get mastitis. You get mastitis twice. You don't play with stuff like that. But I really want you to get good sleep. Like I really do. With our first. Oh.

So this time I'm like, it's not happening. Like I will do everything I have to do. Sorry. A question I want to ask is you mentioned you guys were on like separate pages. What were you, what were you on separate pages about or like what was causing the underlying issue? Yeah. Um,

Well, besides the fact that I was trying to understand my wife when she's going through all of these hormonal changes, especially for the first time, I had no clue what she was actually going through. I'm thinking she's going to push off this baby. We're coming home. All right. Like, the hardest thing is going to be just sleep deprivation. Yeah, you're thinking, like, the hardest thing probably was the birth. Yeah, exactly. And for some, it may be. But, like, that just wasn't the case for us. Yeah, so besides me not knowing...

how to serve my wife in times of where I felt like she needed me. I don't know. Like, what's some other things? Yeah, I just I think it was really just like him not being able to understand what I was feeling. And regardless of like, depression, anxiety, even just like, like you were saying, like the hormones, postpartum, just what we have to like physically go through. I think that caused a lot of like, I felt resentment. Because I was like, well, you don't have to wake up in the middle of the night to feed her like I do. But it

It's like you can't feed her. So I can't be mad, but it's just like those types of- You were breastfeeding. Yeah. Yeah. So just things like that. Yeah. No, definitely. I think another thing was I have kind of-

Not pressured, but kind of been like... Especially when I see her going through tough times with the breastfeeding or whatever. Saying like, hey babe, why don't we just try some other things? Why don't we just figure this out? And I start to make recommendations and things like that. And she's like... I can tell in her eyes, she's listening to me. But she's also like, babe, this is what I want to do. Like it has to be my decision? Yeah, yeah. This is the plan that I want to go with. And in my head, I'm like...

But it's so easy. Can we just like figure out a different plan? I feel like you would be happier. I feel like this. I feel like that. And I literally have to learn and like tell myself like, yo,

Stop. It's not your plan at all. Just listen to your wife. Just listen to see what she's actually feeling, what she's actually going through, and then go from there. So I've learned some things. I just need to just let her tell me. And then I need to get better at this. I see people do this. I don't know if you guys do this, but ask...

your spouse, do you need like a hug or do you need, um, like what do you need? Yeah. Like what do you need in this moment? Like, do you need an answer? Do you like need the problem to be solved? And like, yeah, like I've seen people do that and I'm like, I need to get better at doing that because sometimes I feel like I got the answer. Right. Especially during postpartum and I know absolutely nothing.

Yeah, and that's the thing too. Like I feel like I sometimes wouldn't even voice what I needed because I wouldn't even know what I needed. And even just like in everyday marriage too, sometimes I'm like, I just need to tell you everything that I'm feeling, but like I don't want you to give me a fix.

And like we've struggled with that. Like he'll try to like make it better. And I'm like, I like obviously like that's the goal. Like I want to feel better. But sometimes I don't want you to like say something to make me feel better. Just like hug me and just let me like vent out all my thoughts. And like that's what I need in this moment. So I feel like just communication like.

We've gotten a lot better with that over the years. I'm sure you guys know just like daily things that you learn about each other even still after knowing each other for like ever. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, because how long have y'all been together? We've known each other for six years. We're coming up on four years of marriage next month. Yes. Okay. Yeah. But you guys have known each other for a really long time, right?

We've known each other for like 10 years. We only have been like together together for like seven. Oh, okay. Married for four? Well... You guys are... You got some skin in the game. Yeah, because that goes back to when you were young. Is it when you were in high school? Yeah, we started dating in high school. Yeah, we went on our first date on my 18th birthday. Abby was 17. Okay. But the 18 seems kind of old, honestly. 18 does seem. But we were like...

That was seven years ago. That was right after junior year of high school. He just did kindergarten twice. So it just kind of like. Yeah. Hey, watch it. It's the ADHD. My mom's story. Watch it. That's a fact. My mom refuses to believe that I have ADHD still. Like, I'm like, mom, I promise you I have it. My first kindergarten teacher told my parents, she was like, I think you might want to get him tested. And they were so offended by that. Oh my gosh. And like, looking back, I'm like, I probably should have, which my parents are, I'm okay. I'm sorry. My parents are amazing.

by the way. They're so good. They also watch my podcast. I have mom and dad. But no, they truly are amazing parents. But yes, I have that. Why don't we get on the topic of kindergarten? We're talking about how, why you were 18 going into senior year. How old were you guys when you met? How old were we? We were 20. Yeah, we were 20 years old when we met. Which feels so crazy because we're 27 now.

And that feels like a lifetime ago. But then 20, it's like we were still adults when we met. But how I am now compared to when I was 20 is like a whole different person. Not today for both of us. It was just...

Totally different. Okay, so we met. I don't think we've ever shared this with you guys. So we met in Los Angeles and I was filming a dance class and she was dancing in the dance class. In LA, like that's what kind of like the dancers do. They go to dance classes and they get filmed and it gets on YouTube or whatever. I saw her. I noticed her in the dance class. And mind you, there's like 150 girls in this class. And he noticed me. He says. I did. Well, we're here now. I know.

- I know. I know it's you 'cause you're the only guy with the camera in the room. So like, obviously I saw you. - She says that, but I'm just like, I don't believe it. - Did you slide in the DMs or was it? - I slid in the DMs. - Bro. - Like I, okay, so here's the thing.

I don't know how I found her. And like to this day, I still, I think we had mutual friends and I think I had to do a little bit of Instagram stalking. I mean, I really was in. That's good. That's sweet. Thank you. Okay. Cause I mean, it sounds crazy now, but like I had to like go find like some tag friends and like find her and stuff like that. So anyways, slid into her DMs. I said like, Hey, I noticed you in this class the other day. And a super long story short, she gave me her number without me asking for her

You know what I'm saying? So like, I didn't even like, I didn't even like make a hint or nothing. She was like, Hey, yo, here's my number. If you want to just hit me up off of this. I was like, actually, you know what I said? It's actually like, it's embarrassing. What'd you say? I said, I don't really like get on here that much. So if you want to text me,

I mean like... Like Instagram. I was like, I don't really get on here that much. I'm like, looking back, I'm like, I literally like, it's Instagram. Like, I mean, I guess back then, like we weren't obviously doing social media or anything. Yeah. So maybe it wasn't that weird for me to say, but like now thinking about me saying I don't really get on Instagram that much, I'm like, that was like so obvious that I just... Back then, I feel like people were not...

It wasn't as big of a thing. Yeah, that's true. Right. So maybe it's not that weird. You didn't think it was weird? I didn't think it was weird. Okay. Like you believed me? Or you thought like... I actually didn't. I just thought I was the man, if I'm being honest. I was like, I just bagged this girl's number without even asking. No. Okay. So what was your first date? I'm so curious. What was our first... Okay. So our initial... You tell them our initial first date. You tell it. Okay. No, we went to Chicago.

Shake Shack. Well, I brought Savannah to Shake Shack. I was a part of it.

I was at a church out there in Los Angeles and we were like breaking a fast and everyone was breaking the fast at Shake Shack. And I've been with this church for like a few years. It's like my second family, all those things. And I just bring this like random chick to Shake Shack and everyone's like, oh my gosh, who is this? And like, I'm his second mom and like saying all these things. And like, you were a little nervous. Well, I remember someone like texted you, like a girl texted you and said like, who's that? Like all this stuff. And I'm like, okay. Wait, what happened? Someone texted.

While we were there? Yes, I remember. You were looking over my shoulder? Yeah. Oh, I never knew this. I didn't even know that. Yeah, I'll tell you. I don't want to say it, but I'll tell you who texted you. Okay, cool. Anyways, yes. Nice. And so it was just, I'm meeting all of these people that are like huge and important in his life. And I'm like, I don't even know you. So that was. Yeah, you don't even know me. Yeah. It's like me and the family on the first date. Pretty much. But that wasn't like our first official date. Our first official date. We went to the movies.

Okay. We did a dinner and a movie, and I guess I could have been more creative with a dinner. Hey, I did that too. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend. We went hiking too. We went hiking. Okay, that's good. Hiking is good. I feel like a movie... I'm sorry, this is just my opinion. A movie for the first date is not right. We kissed, though. It was perfect. Okay, so that was good. Oh, okay, yes. Well, we kissed in the car afterwards. Okay, yes. Maybe I would have liked the movie more if you would have kissed me in the movie. Well, I didn't think...

I didn't want to go that route. Also, yeah, okay. I was actually relieved because I was so nervous. I was like, two hours where I do not have to talk. That's true. That's true. I'm just like, I'm just going to sit. Maybe for some, it takes the pressure off, but I feel like you just can't get to know someone if you're in the movies. Yeah. You know? And you also fell asleep in the movie. I did not fall asleep. You fell asleep and you were twitching. I'm taking this story to the grave. I did not fall asleep. I was just rubbing my eye. You were resting your eyes. I had...

Something in my eye. Savannah guys will sleep. And I like, and the only reason I knew she was asleep is because I felt this. I was like, is she twitching? I did not fall asleep. You make that story up. Don't do that. I'm not making the story up. She was twitching and I was like, she

She's asleep. But I didn't say nothing. I don't want to embarrass you on our first date or whatever. When did you ever say anything? I don't know. I feel like years later. Now I'm saying it. You made this up. I promise you I'm not making this up. Anyways, that was our first date. And then we went to dinner. She ordered pancakes. I ordered chicken wings. And we kissed in the car. And that was that. That's what we did.

I know. I just, it's just like a big. But wait, but wait, you guys ended, ended up breaking up though, right? A hundred percent. We broke up so many times. Like broke up. Yeah. Well, yeah. What does that mean? Like we, we thought about it a few times in our dating, you know, years, but like we never officially. I don't,

I don't even think we got that close. No, we never, yeah, we never broke up. But like, what was that like? What is breaking up for us? The thing is, so we did long distance for a year and then like part of a year, half of it we were engaged, half we were just dating. So like the first half when we were just dating, not engaged yet, long distance was like the hardest thing on us ever. And so I feel like that is where we like broke up, but we still talked every single day that we broke up. Yeah. Like there was never a time that we like broke up and I say broke up because I feel like we never actually broke

Definitely. I mean, like, breaking up when we were, like, dating and living in the same city was me, like...

That's like storming out and leaving and like going somewhere for hours and they will like text each other and then we're fine It was never like you were like this is final. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I don't think has it ever been I think only one time and I was during long distance and with long distance Have you guys ever done long distance? We did. Well, we lived two hours apart. Long distance is long distance though I take that like I feel like if you can't physically see your significant other whenever you want It's so tough because like you're going through this was my point like if

you're dealing with like thinking about what the other person is doing and like you're not even in a negative way just like you just want to be around them because it's you used to and it's like easy to happen but you're just so in the unknown and I feel like that can just cause so much like division and just so much like just unnecessary just anger towards each other and that was our whole thing like I would always um

Like just want to physically be with her. And like we would get into little itty bitty arguments for no reason and just starting to break up with each other. And it's like you're literally 2,500 miles away. Like we're not breaking up. Yeah, we were across the whole country. Holy crap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's like that's legit. It was tough. And we tried to see each other like every single month. And sometimes that didn't work. And it was the breakups weren't like legit breakups. But I don't know. Marriage is much harder, though. Than dating? Definitely. Definitely.

Yeah, I think so too actually. I mean because you're choosing your spouse through everything. Like I feel like when you're dating, you don't see everything. You don't see all the stuff that... Bro, and the infatuation is so crazy. Oh, bro. It's like it takes over. They're the perfect person in the whole entire world. They have no flaws. They can do no wrong. And your parents who you hear, you know, maybe bicker here and there. You're like, look, my person is actually perfect and I found the perfect person in the world. So it sucks to be you guys.

Thank you, guys, because we are never going to fight. Yeah, never going to happen. That's what you think. I remember when we were first dating, I was like, we'll never fight. I remember you said that. I think we've got to fight until that night or something. Probably. I remember.

Yeah, no, it was, what are we going to fight over? We got into a fight. I went to Vegas and this sounds like I didn't go to Vegas and like go party with dudes, but it was, no, I didn't go to Vegas. Okay. But no, I was like, I was underage anyway, but it just seems it was the worst situation. We got into an argument and then I go to Vegas with like my friends and they were just like arguing and I'm trying to enjoy my time and it was over. What was it over? Do you remember? No, I don't remember. You used to tell me this story.

I thought you were going to take that one. It's okay. Yeah, we don't know. Anyways, that was like our first big fight. See, that's the thing you never remember. Yeah, because obviously it probably didn't matter. It just shows you how there's so much that you should just move on from because you're not going to care. You're not going to remember what it was. Right. A day, you know, in one day. You're just like, what was that fight about? Actually, Abby remembers. I won't remember. Yeah. I remember for a week and then I forget. And then you're like, don't remember. You guys opened up on your podcast about getting canceled. And when I saw that title, I immediately was just like,

Yeah, same. I was like, no. Like, I hate when I hear about other creators getting hate because there's nothing worse as a creator. Obviously, like, there's so many perks. Like, I don't want to, like, act like it's, you know, I'm sure there's people in much worse situations than getting that hate. But when you do get it, it feels horrible. Yeah. And so, I don't know if you guys are comfortable sharing about that. I was just, like, curious how you navigated that. Yeah.

Because when you get a lot of people just coming for you, it's not fun. Because you've been on the internet for a while. Yeah.

Yeah, we have. Since 2017. Yeah. Do you want to tell a little bit? I feel like you are better. Yeah, no. So like because we've been on social media for, yeah, for so long, 2017, like we started off with doing YouTube when it was like pretty, I would say like kind of easy to kind of grow on YouTube back in the day, like 2017. So we were around like the prank and challenge days. You guys were doing the pranks? Yeah, we were doing all the fake pranks. Are they still up on our channel, by the way? They are. That's great. Yeah.

Yeah. That's crazy. Did you guys fake any pranks? Oh, we faked the majority of our pranks. Like they were majority scripted. Would get the views. Yeah, we've definitely like. And everybody, here's my favorite thing is like you tell people that they're fake and then people are like, no way. No. They still don't believe it. You know what's crazy though? Before we started though. I told you.

I would watch these pranks because I was like, this is like what we were trying to do or whatever. Yes. And I would be like, okay, babe, like this one's real. And he's like, Savannah, no, they're not real. I'm like, no, this one has to be. He's like,

I think I've tried like one, like maybe throw like a spider in the shower and like scare. But anyways, the ones that like went viral and did good, they were scripted. Thank you to HelloFresh for sponsoring this portion of the episode. Something Matt and I have been talking about a lot recently is decision fatigue. I feel like I'm educating him on this because having two under two has made

my brain kind of short circuit in a way it never has before. I'm trying to be better about like looking for things. Like if she put the diaper somewhere and I'm like, hey babe, where are the diapers? I'll try to look for them first. Yes. And making some decisions yourself, right? Yes. And one last decision we need to make during the day is what is for dinner? And that is why HelloFresh is great because they've planned the meals for you. And not only that, but they've already shopped for the ingredients and pre-portioned everything.

perfectly for you and your family. And they taste so good, you guys. And if you're like me and you are not very good at cooking, I've actually made Abby these meals before and it's really nice. It's just a step-by-step process. They're pretty much dummy proof. Honestly, yes. And the great thing is, is that they don't just have dinners. They also have breakfast and kid-approved lunches and snacks.

Our toddler, he is an eating machine and he can eat these meals and loves them as well. I didn't know they had kid approved lunches and snacks. Is that like a new thing? That's pretty cool. I think that's fairly new. Spend less time shopping and cooking and spend more time with your family. That's why we love HelloFresh mostly. So go to HelloFresh.com slash 50unplannedpodcast and use code 50unplannedpodcast for 50% off.

off plus 15% off the next two months. That's 50 unplanned podcasts for 50% off. - Gosh, we are just rolling with the deals today. That's a really good deal. My mom would be all over that. My mom loves to save money. So she'd be like using our code. - Send the code to Teresa. - I should send it to Teresa. - I'll text it to her. You never text your mom. - Okay, we'll send it to Teresa.

and back to the episode because we've done social media for so long and we've seen the ins and outs and with us even being like an interracial couple on social media that comes with just a whole another layer of unnecessary hate that we feel like we just we're just like oh okay this is gonna be our life whatever we get it and just in the world that we live in now it's just a thing you know so we on tiktok

This was like a couple years ago or whatever. There was just a TikTok. I won't go into details of the TikTok. I don't know if it's still up now, but it's not up on our page. It got taken down by me, but I think people stitched it or whatever. We made something that I guess could have been controversial for...

us as an interracial couple and a lot of people from both, uh, ethnicities didn't like that and just start stitching it and just like start coming for me a lot. Um, they came for like, yeah, it was more so you just basically saying like, you know, you're with this African American black guy just for like clout, just for like the babies and like all these things. And a lot of people were saying that like I was racist and I'm like,

How does that work? But yeah, so getting hate publicly that way, but then like getting the messages in the DMs and like this is when we already knew about the hate in the DMs and the messages and comments that you get. But for some reason, this affected me way more than it affected her because I'm like getting like called out my name crazy. I'm getting like my character, like,

My character's being jeopardized or like you guys are talking about me and like stuff that's so not true. And stuff that I've never heard before, especially when it's talking about like my wife. When it comes to like my family and stuff now and even just like you guys are parents, you guys get it. When it comes to your kids, nothing's on the table. Like it's totally different. So I'm getting messages like this and comments and people are stitching and like saying this about me. And I'm like...

I got to like get off TikTok. And what's crazy, I was in like the silence about it. Like Savannah didn't know that I was like dealing with this low key, like kind of depressed and kind of like, you know, really down on myself because I don't want her to get affected by it.

by it I'm like if she sees what these people are sending like because you like on TikTok you can see like the message request and you can see um the blocked uh comments and stuff like that and I'm looking at those and I'm like why do I keep looking at these comments they are literally and you can't stop you can't stop it's just in your brain you're like you cannot get it out

Bro, and I'm getting crushed each comment that I'm looking at. People were really trying to cancel us. It was to a point where, and I think it's still there, you can search Josh and Sav on TikTok and you'll probably see some stuff, but the third one down says canceled. And I'm like, what? Off of a TikTok that we didn't even do anything? And then that word canceled is used so much. And when you're under a microscope on social media, it's just like,

People are just looking for like you to do something wrong. Like they want to find something wrong that they can like flip it. Even if, you know, there isn't anything obviously. Right. Yeah. But so yeah, eventually, I mean, like we talked about it and like we,

It got taken down, like, for me. Like, I couldn't deal with it. I started to, like, report it. I started to, like, get our management involved. Like, trying to, like, can this stop? Because, like, it is literally affecting us. And we just had to just, like, keep going and just, like, literally just know who our identity was in. Like, not...

think what these other people are saying even though like every now and then i still do look at those comments and like it doesn't get on me now as much as it used to but um it's tough sometimes when people are like coming for your character and things like that it's like almost frustrating like how tough it can be because you're like i'm an adult you know like yeah i'm a grown man like i don't know these people and and so then that's just what reminds me i'm like when i'm

if our kids ever want to create like their own stuff online that's where I'm like no because I'm like if it's hard for me imagine how hard it'd be for a kid that doesn't know their identity right now they are like trying to figure it out and like we didn't have this like

social media when you were growing up at that age. So it's like, oh gosh, imagine. I know. And I'm so curious, as an interracial couple, has that only been isolated to social media or has there ever been something in person where someone's said something rude or mean or something to you? Yeah, what? I was just going to say, yeah, sometimes... Actually, I think this just happened the other day when we were...

We went out to eat or something. And, like, people will think that we're, like, not together. You're kidding. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And stuff like that. Where were we? Yeah, we were in our new city. Was that a spaghetti factory? Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, I think so. And they, I think I came in after the fact. And I think I had the stroller or something like that. And they said, like, table for three or something. And we were with her mom. And I'm like, hmm.

I'm back here. But I don't know. Sometimes, like, I can't read too deep into things like that. Another example I do have, though, we were in New York one time and there was this like we're on the train on the subway. And this lady, this African-American lady was just kind of just staring at us. Older lady. And I was just like, maybe she's staring because she likes my shoes or she likes her shoes or like, I don't know, like I only think the best of people.

So it's time for us to get off the stop. And she kind of like ups and downs. Savannah walks off the train. She kind of like ups and downs me and says, oh, you don't like she said, I think she said, what did she she said? Oh, you don't like chocolate.

Oh. And like looked at her. I didn't hear. She was gone. Looked at her and like looked at me. And it didn't hit me because I smiled. I'm like, why did I just smile at that? But it hit me like a few seconds later. Don't you hate that when you walk away and then you're like, I would have said this in the moment. Like I should have said something at that moment. But a few seconds later, I was like, hmm, that makes a lot of sense. Like the whole train ride, she was kind of like up and downing us and not really, you know,

Not looking that friendly. And then I get off and she says that. And it goes back to show like... Because we see the comments on social media. Those are just going to be there. We get it. Like, oh, why aren't you with a black girl? Oh, why don't you just date your own race? We see all of that. And that's just whatever because...

comments are just whatever but when you say it in person and it happens to you in person it's honestly it becomes more real because it's like there's actually hateful people out there that actually feel like that and I think what blows my mind is I'm so naive like I grew up had no idea I just thought racism didn't exist I just thought I just thought it like growing up you just don't even I don't know in school you read the books about like the civil war and stuff and you're just like wow that's horrible that that that

happened back then. That like, I'm so glad there's like not even a tiny inkling of that anymore in our society. And then you get older and you realize that there's like, it's like, no, it doesn't just go away in 200 years or less than 200 years. It doesn't just like magically disappear. And I feel like if you just talk to somebody who's in an older generation, those ideologies are still like present in like little ways, I think. So that's just...

I'm glad that you guys have it seems like you haven't had like a lot of incidents in person I'm surprised you get those comments though even but the comments are crazy it's insane and it's just I mean they're just it's just because I don't know like I don't really understand the reason behind it um

You can say it's, you know, like, we have, like, a large following and things like that, and people just want to just do the negative comments just to do it or whatever. But I don't know, like, to your point, Matt, like, even, like, we've had conversations just because about, like, race and, like, the things that happen in, like, the world and stuff like that just because, like, she's been interested and wanting to learn about it. And I think that, like, advances the conversation when it comes to racism in America and, like, you know...

Caucasian people, white people not really knowing and understanding about it. I

I love that, you know, because when I can like have that conversation, like, OK, baby, like this is how I felt before or not from her. But like in general, this is how I felt before. This is how my my people feel. My culture feels about certain things. It's it's good to have those conversations and like you willing. Yeah. Willingly wanting to have. Yeah. It's actually crazy, too. Like this is kind of like off topic, but like both my parents are cops.

And so like that aspect, like I never saw like the whole side of what like you can feel about cops and like the difference because I'm like,

I grew up, both my parents are cops. I'm white. I don't experience racism. Literally, it's not possible for me. And I would say that I was uneducated just because I was unaware. As a kid, it's just I didn't know about it. And you did, obviously. So just things like that we've learned each day. But yeah, in person to see that people still... Like you said, you feel like it's just something in the past, but people still to this day...

racism is such a real thing and they'll go out of their way to say something. It's so big. Like, it's like a big thing to us only because like when we found each other, we weren't thinking about race. So like in our brains, in our heads, it's just like, you know, just another person. And then when we see the comments, we're like, oh, wait, that...

You guys are thinking that and we're not thinking that at all like that. It doesn't make any sense. I'm curious how that was like when you guys first started dating and like we're going to get married like with your families and your close friends. Like was that even a conversation amongst them? Right. I don't know.

It's funny you say that because, well, I don't know when the podcast with your dad that we shot. It's going up tomorrow, so it'll be up before this. Because he actually just said that the first time that he met me over FaceTime because we didn't live near our family. And he said that when he saw that I was white, he was kind of shocked because he'd never seen you date a white girl. I've never dated a white girl in my entire life. So for...

And it was nothing to, and I've said this so many times, there's nothing to white women. I think I almost got canceled for this too. I've said this on our podcast. It's on TikTok right now. But it's nothing to white women. Like my wife is white. I love everyone. I love everyone. Pink, turquoise, whatever. I just never...

dated or had a preference. I never just chose to... The people that I dated were black. It's literally that simple. So my dad... And I did it so random too. I was on FaceTime with my dad. We were on a date and I was just FaceTiming him like, hey dad, we're out right now. He's never met her, never seen her. I say, we're out. He's like, huh? And then I was like, oh yeah, there she is. And

I showed her and then like that was that. And now we just found out we shot a podcast with my dad the other day. And he said he was like, yeah, when that first happened, like I didn't I wasn't expecting her to be. We never knew that. Like until just literally the other day that he was like shook to see that I was like white or whatever. Right. So, yeah. But yeah, just like little things like that. I don't think there was ever anything like that.

thank God, like our, in our family directly that there was like a racism issue or, cause there is, it's such a real thing to where like some parents will not allow, like I've even gotten DMs of people being like, my mom doesn't, or my parents or whatever, doesn't approve of me dating like a black guy. Like, do you have any advice? So it's, it's a real thing. So like we are so grateful, you know, that that wasn't like the case for us, but it really is a real thing.

Have you guys seen that YouTube video? There's a YouTuber in the UK that flew to America to make a video called I Pranked the America's Most Racist Man. I know exactly what you're talking about. Dude, we went to college like two hours north of that town, okay? No! And we... We went hiking right in that town, basically. So I grew up in St. Louis. St. Louis is a city. It's just like I was a city boy, okay? I don't know. I didn't know the...

St. Louis is not the South, but like Southern Missouri starts to become more South. And if you dip into Arkansas, because we went to school in Springfield, Missouri, and if you drive like an hour South, you're in Arkansas and you see Confederate flags. And I'm like, no way. I'm just like, there's no way this is real. Like there's no way that in 20, I mean, I guess it's, we were in college in like 2020, but-

I was like, there's just no shot that this is going on. But yeah, that was that. I wanted to ask, so now you're raising children together. And I'm sure that's been a conversation too with parenting. I guess what that experience is like.

Like, definitely. I've even gotten like comments or questions like obviously we've talked about like regardless of like social media or what people have to say. But I get like the question of like, well, how are you going to know like how to do your daughter's hair and just stuff like that? And I'm like, I just find it honestly so like.

ignorant I guess yeah because I'm like regardless of like how my daughter's hair is I am her mother so like I will learn how to do her hair no matter what it takes you know what I mean yeah so for someone to like just like those kind of things are silly but like for us we know that and especially for me now to like know that racism is a real thing and that like we will have to raise our children with a different especially for me a different lens than if I would have

married a white guy and had white children. Yeah, no, definitely. I just know like,

When they get older, like right now they're super young. But as they're getting older, having just those conversations of like, hey, having those real conversations with your kids. You know, like when there's no cameras, like no one's around and no one's forcing these conversations where you're just talking just like, hey, it might be a little different when you go to school. Like people might want to touch your hair and let's talk about boundaries and let's like, you know, things like that. Like that's what we're going to be implementing in our daughters as they get older because like,

like she said, unfortunately it is a real thing or whatever. And if they see like a mixed looking kid or whatever, or like, you know, they say like the light skin kids or whatever, they could get picked on or,

or just because of their like I got picked on in elementary school because of because I was black or whatever like they would call me brownie just because I was in fourth fourth or fifth grade and it was crazy I thought it was funny until I went home and like told my parents or like yeah hold on like something's not right so like it's a it can happen in elementary school and uh granted I went to like an all-white school too so like I stuck out like a sore thumb but like it shouldn't be the case though when your kid is going to school they shouldn't have to think about

that. So I think starting super young, if we even decide to put our girl in public school or, um, you know, our girls, what did I say? You said girl. I know I do that because the oldest is like, she's the closest one. Okay. Both of our girls. Um, if we put them in public school, we'll see if that ever happens. But, um, yeah, just talking to them at a young age, letting them know their identity, like building them up, affirming them, um,

saying like it's okay to look how you like this is how god made you like this is it um and not having them think any anything else so if you could please share this podcast with your nanny that you had as a kid i don't know if you did actually have a nanny but that would be great if you could if you could just share it or maybe if you know someone who's a nanny yeah what about like the nanny's uh son's dog's cat yeah they listen to it like if they're lonely by themselves

at home a cat might really like this that might be the most perfect person to share it with I feel like cats could really get something out of this podcast especially this conversation I can tell that you guys are definitely cat people just from you bringing that up yeah that's wild because I'm not a cat person but like I feel like the cat would leave like the best review ever yeah yeah but if you could just share it with your nanny's cat that would just mean the world to us and share the podcast now back to the podcast

We love having these conversations too because we have friends just like you guys that are in this space that show their kids. And then there's some like you guys who don't show their kids. And we are part of the crew or whatever or couples that we do show our daughter when it comes to

social media and like Instagram and things but our only thing is our content isn't about them and it'll never be about them with us we started YouTube just us obviously like it was just a couple's channel until this day I consider our channel a couple's channel people can put family on there just because yeah you know we have a family now but I think a family channel is in my opinion is like a channel strictly about your kids and

Kind of just like their lifestyle. Yeah. And like the family range or whatever. But right now, we don't feel... I don't know what the word is. Like convicted, I guess, if you will, with showing our kids on social media. Yeah. Mainly because of just how we're doing it. Literally hit me up in like a couple months or so. My answer could change. Like right now, we don't see anything...

We don't feel like the need to like change anything about what we're doing. Cause like you said, our, we always have just made sure that it's like centered around us. We don't want it to be centered around our children, but that's not to say like there are people that do not like center their content around their children, but they do feature their children a lot. And that's fine. Like my thing is I'm like, you make the best decision like for your family. Um, but yeah, right now I do think we are kind of navigating that more. I don't know if it's with having our second, but yeah,

But just thinking about maybe not showing them, like, how do we navigate that if we decide to stop showing them? Like, I will say, I feel like if we ever make that decision, we won't make it like an announcement, I guess, if that makes sense. It'll just be like a personal decision. And honestly, like, people may not even really notice. Yeah. But maybe they will. I don't know. Can I say that about, like, you guys? Like, we didn't notice a big shift. That makes me really happy. In your content. Yeah.

Which I think is great. Even like, I'll just get super specific because like I'm a, I study YouTube. Like I know YouTube. Not like I know, but like I just love everything. So like, I'm the same way. I see like you guys thumbnails and I see like your recent thumbnail with your son and his birthday party. And it's like the, it's him in the thumbnail, but I think it's the back of his head or something like that. And yeah,

It was about your son in a sense. Or you guys were wanting to show like to celebrate your son. But like it wasn't. And it's not like, oh, look at me, guys. We're not showing our kid on social media. It's just more like...

I don't know. It's just natural. Yeah, you can still document and show your life without if that's what you want, like to not show them. And I think what it is is I think some people, I think it's so easy just to have the camera on your kids because like you love your kids and your kids are so cute. And like people, even people that don't do social media want to like show their kids anyway. But I think it's like there's like this slippery slope that you can go down because it is so easy just to vlog your children where like you might end up in a situation where they get a little bit older and they're like,

I hate this. I don't want to do this. This isn't fun for me. I don't want, I want privacy. And so we didn't even think of like, there's just, there's so much going on that like we, we just started to like really think through all of that. And like, we made the decision not to show our kids faces on social media, but yeah, I, I'm glad that you guys are like thinking of it from that, um, that perspective because, um,

It's just, it's crazy what's out there. I read a book actually recently, Jeanette McCurdy's book. Have you guys heard of that? I've heard of the author. Like, I'm glad my mom died. And it was just about her experience in the industry as a child actress and how, unfortunately for her, she was taken advantage of by her mom. And it just really opened my eyes to like what can happen. So yeah.

Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, no, and even... Oh, you go, Matt. No, you go ahead. No, Abby, go. I wasn't going to say anything. You go, Matt. You can call me Matt. It's fine, it's fine. What were you going to say? I was going to say, like, it's important, I think, that, like...

If you want to show, like, it's good to see parents, like, showing their parenting experience. Yes. It doesn't necessarily have to, have to or not show the kids involved. Yeah. I love watching moms and knowing their experience. I think the majority of people, like, we have so many friends that show their kids online. I don't, like, and they're great people.

I don't think – I really truly think that the majority of people have no ill intentions, but it's that like select few that do have ill intentions and that are just trying to, you know, make money off of their kids. I don't want to sound – No, I hear you. But it's just – and that's where it's like, okay, this is weird. And that's why for me, I was like, okay, I want my – I want all of our stuff to be about us and to tell our story because I never want to get close to that. Like how you guys do it. Yeah. No, definitely. I think even like having –

the conversations between you and your spouse and like for us like having those conversations behind closed doors like okay how are we going to do this so you won't go down that slippery slope because if you go like if you're like kind of unsure and like say I'm like filming our daughter and deep down inside she's like

I don't want to do, we've had like this moment. I don't know if we've ever shared this. Like we've had a moment when our daughter was like super young and I think she was trying to hit a milestone or something. We wanted to highlight that milestone. We wanted to just show everyone that she's, I forgot what it was, that she was doing something and she wouldn't do it on camera. And we literally were like, it was probably like five minutes of us like having the camera on her face, like saying like, hey, like,

we'll try to catch her doing it like it was like blow kiss or something yeah it was like something so simple and we looked at each other we're like we're like what are we doing what are we doing like literally what are we doing like this is not okay this is not like we had a real moment we were like no we are not turning into that type of channel that type of those type of parents in the first place yes it's cool because like we always have our phones out we're always filming photos and videos all the time that's something totally different but like

The fact that I was going to go and edit that and post that on YouTube on the day that we upload...

I was like, oh no, this doesn't, this doesn't make sense. You guys also, I mean, you guys really blew up on TikTok this year. Congratulations on that. Like, I know that's like, it's, it's not easy to do. Um, I thought, I thought your videos were super creative and, um, love like the interview style that you guys had with taking this, like this, this thing that had been a thing for a while interviews, but then like doing that as a couple. Yeah. Um,

Was that your idea, Josh? Like who came up with that? Was it my idea? Yes, babe. I don't know what to say. It was my idea. But like you said, interviews have been on social media. People are doing them just going like in random and public and just interviewing people and strangers. And I don't know what it was. I just had the idea of, all right, let me just interview my wife and just see what happens. If you guys go back and watch the very first interview, Savannah –

was like not on not that she wasn't on board but she was like I didn't know what was going on yeah she didn't know what was going on and she was like stop you already know these answers to these questions that you're asking or whatever like let's stop doing this this is weird or whatever and then I'm like babe just like

Go with it just like improv so like I'm a theater guy so like improv just comes like I'm just natural to me and like for Savannah I'm always teaching her. Yes, and you guys know yes, and yeah Good at it though Sometimes and I'm like I like rebuttal or like go the opposite route I'll be like no and he's like no like just just agree with like what I say the fourth wall

Literally, I'm like, babe, don't break it. But so yeah, I was like, okay, let's just see what this does. And she was pregnant at the time, which I honestly think kind of helped. People love pregnancy content. They do. They eat it up. And we wanted to navigate...

pregnancy just a little different this time or whatever because like there's just ways to do it and like you guys do it a different creative way and another couple will do it like so we were just like all right let's just try this and give like updates or whatever and the first few were on accident and then people start catching on and we were like these are fun let's just keep going and like she's just hilarious i literally just like i like i

I say, babe, I'm just going to turn the camera on. I'm going to ask you what your name is and let's just see where this goes. And we did that and she just goes off the rip and her thing has been her flirting with me. That was another thing. It was like an accident that that happened, I guess. The first time. Because I was actually flirting with you. And then it became kind of like a storyline and everyone loves that I'm coming on to you. And now people actually, some people actually think that I'm just the interview guy.

That's really funny. People don't actually know that we're together. They'll see us probably just on their for you page and they're like, wait. When we had our second daughter, they were like, wait, you guys are married? Now you guys are married. You meant doing interviews. You're choking. Then we did an interview on our love story after that. We just kept eating it up. So...

So, yeah, I mean, it happened on accident. It's just something just so fun and, like, creative. Like, I feel like as creatives, we're always trying to, like, push the envelope and just do something different, but not...

too crazy or different or whatever something that you know people have done and probably we can borrow it and see what happens but um they're fun they're super fun you guys interviews are hilarious i just think it's like a way i i really like i really wanted to make sure that we were like making ours different by the way and i always and i always tagged you guys because early okay we were on tiktok early on where everybody would copy everyone verbatim and not tag it was like the

to do and it was so frustrating because abby was especially abby would come up these like really really good ideas and people like word for word would copy our video that's wow and just like not tag and then everyone would do the trend and and then no and it's just like okay it was only annoying when other people would come and be like you copied this no they would tell us that we copied wait and you're like wait a minute and we're like shut up so so i saw like it it

You guys started a trend. Everyone started doing these interview videos. And I'm like, okay, I think this is hilarious. I really like this idea. I want to do it, but I also don't want to just copy your idea. So I tried to make it different. I really hope that I did it like... Yeah. One thing we love to see is just like, it just shows everyone's personality in a different way. Like you're interviewing someone that you love so much and you probably know all these things, especially like the pregnancy interviews. Like...

I know the stuff that she's saying or whatever, but like, it's just so curious to see like how she's going to phrase it and like for people to see her bubbly personality and things like that. So watching other people's personality different from like when you guys are doing like your day in the life vlogs and stuff like that. I'm like, that's cool. That's different. It's just something new. Yeah. Do you feel burnt out at all with those? Like, have you done enough now where you're like, okay, I want to explain different low key? Yes. But at the same time,

no what do you think i've i think you well i feel i don't know we've talked about it you go yeah you go no what were you gonna say well i feel like for josh he's always like trying to just come up with a new creative thing yeah so i feel like now that we've like done it for a season it's like okay we can't just like keep doing this over and over type thing like you want everything to be like new and fresh and fun right so i think it's

I don't know, because now it's almost become like our thing. So it's like if we stop doing it, you know, like people might be like, hey, like, why don't you guys do that anymore? But I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't feel like super burnt out with it. I do just like kind of want to...

Throw some fresh things in there. Cause if we don't, then we're just, I don't want to just be seen as like the interview couple or whatever. And as a creative, we just love to just spice things up in the first place, but I don't know. I'm not burnt out just yet, but definitely just throwing them in there. Yeah. Periodically. Like now it's only for like monumental things kind of like we just did a moving one and we recently just did a, um,

Oh, yeah, a moving one. That was it. Yeah, no, we did one, like, in our new house and stuff. So, like, it's just, like, it has to be special to do them now. But I don't know. It's been, it happened on accident. And then we were just like, all right, let's just keep going. Yeah. You guys are funny. I love those. Oh, man. Yeah, I just, I thought of super creative. Such a fun new take on something that's been around. Yeah, and very relatable. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.

I love watching people go through pregnancy and stuff too because then you're just like that was another aspect of it yeah I feel like a lot of people could relate because they would hear like my symptoms or like what my cravings are like each week or whatever and I feel like they just kind of had like a reason they would know that like each week we would do like the update and so they would like come back and be like what's your craving this week whatever yeah because if you're following someone that's in a similar stage to you're like oh okay like I'm gonna be like that two weeks from now it's just

- Oh right, yeah. - Yeah, for sure. Yeah, 'cause we were, we're just two months apart. - Exactly pretty much. - Yeah, because Starlee was born on the 8th and then, yes. - I was born on the 10th. - On the 10th, yeah. - Basically two months apart, exactly. We were joking before this, we were like, wait, our kids should get married because it's like you guys have two girls and we have two boys and they're like the same exact age difference, which is so funny. - You know what I thought about the other day though, Matt? - What? - I am gonna be on the boys' side of the family.

I want to be the husband's dad. Does that make you sad? Whoa. I've thought about that same thing. Because girls really stay tightly knit with their family, but the boys don't as much. I have to remember to call my parents. So I'm going to have to like know my place, like step back a little bit, you know? I know. That is crazy to think. It hurts a little. Because I thought about that like just the other day. Me thinking about this when our kids are literally babies. I want to move out. Yeah.

No, I was thinking... She cries about that. I was literally thinking, I was like, our girls are going to give birth one day. What are we going to do? Oh, gosh. Oh, my gosh. But it's so far in the future, but I think about these things all the time, but yeah. Oh, okay. That actually makes me glad that I have boys for a second. Yeah, you know. You don't want your...

I don't want your kids to go through that. I know, right? But then it's so exciting. Yeah, because then you get to be there for them. I don't know. It was really sad. We were in the hospital for my brother and sister-in-law's birth, and my brother's father-in-law was there, and I could just tell he was just so worried about his daughter. Yeah. And that's not fun. Yeah, I can't imagine. At all. I can't imagine either. Birth is so hard. My daughter giving birth to her son or daughter.

Yeah, it's crazy. Are you going to be like that intimidating dad that just like shows up at the boyfriend's house? Bro, I have no clue what type of dad I'm going to be. I feel like I'm going to have to be like both worlds. Because like, would you consider, I think Savannah is a little bit more strict than me. Yeah, I was going to ask who's the strictest. Oh, yeah. You think I'm strict? I feel like, well, like if Raya's like cutting up or something, I feel like you'll like put your foot down. Oh, she pulls my hair. It hurts.

Yeah, if your kid's pulling your hair, it brings out a different side. Yeah. I don't know. Sometimes when you say no, I'm like...

Don't talk to my son like that. Okay, okay. Yeah, that's how she is. I feel like it's not mean at all. You're like the sweetest dad. I do the craziest stuff. Me too. I think your dad went on a bike ride with me and Griffin. And then I think he told your mom. He was like, I think Matt might have been going a little too fast on the bike with Griffin. And I'm like, dude, Griffin loves to go fast. Dude, this is his favorite thing in the world. We're just guys being dudes, okay? Oh my gosh. Josh and Sav, yeah.

Congrats on your move. Congrats on your babies. I'm so excited for you guys. Congrats on your like on blowing up on TikTok. Your podcast seems to be doing really well, too. So just really excited for you guys. And thank you for making the trip out to Arizona. Check out their podcast. Yes. The For Us podcast. The For Us podcast. We're just on there just chatting about just stuff that we're chatting about now. Yeah. Just like, you know, life, relationships, social media, all this stuff, ins and outs. So we love you guys. You guys are the best. You guys are the best.

This was really fun. It's crazy how much I can relate to especially the social media side of things with you. I don't know. This has been really fun and I'm just excited to talk tomorrow on your podcast too. Let's do it. As always, this is where we say peace out. 3, 2, 1 Peace out dudes!