Change in Birth Plan, Considering a C-Section & Revealing Our Secret
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- My mentality with this second pregnancy from talking to other moms, the second baby just slipped right out. It's gonna be so much smoother the second time. And then she's like, "You really need to consider a C-section." - When he was born, he got stuck. It's called shoulder dystocia. - And then she goes and lists the things that could have happened to Griffin. Brain trauma, brain failure, maybe even death. We have had some secrets. - We're sharing some secrets on this episode.

Hey, before we get started, if you could just leave us a review for our podcast, it would mean the world to us. It's been so much fun reading through your reviews. You guys are so, so kind. And leaving a review doesn't take very much time at all. It's literally like five seconds. You can just say, love the podcast and tap however many stars you want to tap and you're done. So please leave a review. We would really appreciate it. Now on with the episode. What's up, dudes? And welcome back to the Unplanned Podcast.

That never gets sold. It really doesn't. You guys, we went to our first NBA basketball game last night. It was so...

fun we are not sports people we're really not we're theater kids at heart and we had a really good time i didn't think i was gonna like it as much as i did i got nervous with when i saw like what you were gonna spend on tickets i was like yeah i don't know if i'm gonna make it worth it but it was so fun i want to go to another one it's expensive like playoff tickets are expensive but i feel like it's worth it because the atmosphere at the games is insane like there's a lot on the line if they don't win the game like they might get kicked out of the playoffs and then

The energy was high. The energy is very high. And it's fun to like jump up and down. Like every time they score, you're like, yeah. I felt like I was on a how to lose a guy in 10 days. Oh, yeah. When she's like, the game's really intense. And then she's like, can you get me a drink? And he's like, yes, one second. It's like the end of the game. And she's like, I'm sorry. Yeah.

That is hilarious. Because I needed snacks and drinks, of course. Abby requested that we get a souvenir cup at the game. So we got a souvenir cup and there was free refills. By the way, when I went to get the free refill, the guy gave me a hard time. So I had to go to a different refill station to get a refill. Why did you say that? He was like, sorry, that's actually... He was like, they lied to you at that stand. It's not a free refill. I'm like, okay, dude. So then I went back to the stand and we bought the drink at. You think that they would be like...

I know. Standard protocol. We specifically asked for the refillable cup. We were like, we want the one with free refills. It's got to come with one free refill if you buy the cup. Yes. Because otherwise there's no benefit. Exactly. Honestly, though, I think it's worth it because we've been fighting so much recently about

we needed a date and we needed to shake things up a bit totally um it was good i think we just like we really enjoyed it um i tried not to like like i'm gonna be honest i think i was mad at you for a whole week straight really last week yeah honestly it wasn't a good week last week no that's not that was a sucky week new week new week new me

Honestly, it was your fault. My fault? I'm just kidding. Jeez. I start a whole new fight. But no, truly, it was like a really good thing to like do something totally different. Like how often do we go to a sporting events? Yeah. We don't. So it was good to like shake things up. And I'm very thankful that you are willing to let me have a babysitter come over and watch her son. Because Abby was like, I don't want to leave our baby at home. And I think like a lot of moms can probably relate to that, I'm thinking. Because for you, I think...

griffin is always on your mind and he's he's on my mind a lot as well but i can i can like you know step away for a few hours and like enjoy a sporting event um it was funny abby looked over at me at one point in the game she's like can i tell you something and i'm only gonna say it once i was like what she's like i miss griffin so much you miss him right now he's in the kitchen eating quesadillas he's eating quesadillas in the kitchen no i'm just kidding but um

Well, I'm kind of not kidding. You know what's weird? I was thinking about this in the shower last night. I'm like, what has made me such an obsessive mom? Yeah. Because for the first, like for at least the first six months of his life, I wasn't like that. Really? Yeah, I don't think so. You think so? No, because remember we left for New York, literally New Year's Eve. You missed that kid so much. We were gone for 24 hours. I did not feel the same way as I do now. I don't know if it's the pregnancy hormones or if it's... Oh, true. Like I just have developed so much of a bond with him in the past months that I'm like...

And I think we've built a bond with each other because now he like prefers me. So then I'm like, if I'm gone, it's sad. He's a mama's boy now. Well, he prefers you too. I'm saying he like, he knows us. No, for the first time today, I took him out of your arms and he started crying when I took him out of your arms. That was not the first time. Really? That was like the first big time. Like maybe one time he was like, ah, like he wanted mom. Like he cried. I was like, bro, I'm your dad. What the heck? So he's chosen you. He wants you more now. He knows it.

But I feel like for a while he was a daddy's boy. For a while he preferred me, especially like at nighttime. No, it's like what every mom says. He prefers me when he's sad and needs comfort. And he prefers you when he wants to have fun and like laugh. Oh, that's a good point. For sure. Because even when he's sad, his cry sounds like...

And when he's happy, he says, dad, dad, dad, dad, when he's happy. Yeah. So sweet. Yeah. So I feel like that shift really happened, but I let go for the night. I only mentioned him one time. I saw a lot of babies there and it made me want to say something about Griffin, but I didn't because date nights are about us and we had fun.

So it was interesting. I did a poll today on the Unplanned Podcast Instagram to ask what you guys wanted to know about us for this episode. And you guys said you wanted to know more about

uh, our birth plan and, um, everything to do with that. And also we got some questions. I got a question. Did your birth plan go as planned for Griffin? And I feel like that's the perfect segue into what we're going to talk about today is, is the birth plan for this, this current baby. But, um, with Griffin things really did it. Griffin's birth are setting a precedent for baby number two's birth. I keep almost saying his name. And it really didn't go as planned, even though we didn't necessarily have one.

If that makes sense. Yeah, I feel like we've we kind of talked about Griffin's birth in previous episodes. If you want more details on that, I think it's like episode two or three. Yeah. But essentially what happened is when he was born, he got stuck.

stuck in the birth canal it's called shoulder dystocia correct when the baby's shoulder gets stuck behind the pelvic bone of the mother while they're being born and it's really scary because they can't breathe they're they're not able to get oxygen right they can breathe a little bit right i don't think he can breathe i think that's the big scare that's why it was scary um that's why i was pushed out of the way i was like helping i was helping abby but then

It was such like a frantic moment that like nurses were like move dad and then like they didn't like without even really having much time to talk I was pushed out of the way and obviously totally understand. I'm glad they shoved me out of the way I want I wanted them to help you and help our baby But yeah, it was a scary moment in his his shoulder did like have a hairline fracture to it Which luckily I guess his collarbone had the collarbone or shoulder. I guess the collarbone Yeah, so

My only plan going into Griffin's birth, because for me, I feel like... Griffin's birth? Or do you mean... Griffin's birth. Oh, from... Yeah. Was... I was like... I mean, I think subconsciously I planned to have vaginal birth because I was like... There was no reason to think that we were going to have a C-section with him. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, well, I think that's going to happen. I think that I'm going to have medication. Yeah. And I was going to be induced. And I think we knew that as it got closer and closer to the end. Yeah.

And with his size being large and Matt's and his brothers have history of, they were big babies. - I was a big baby. - And I'm a petite person. Like I have a small frame. So I felt comfortable with being induced. I was ready to have this baby.

And I felt like the baby was ready to come. Yeah, but the thing is we never did any birth classes with Griffin. We didn't really do what a lot of first-time parents do as far as like reading all these birth plan books or watching, I'm sure there's online courses about having a birth plan or meeting with a doula. Like we didn't do any of that. We kind of just thought

I mean, I don't know. I mean, if you decide to do that, cool. That's totally cool. We just decided... I think it's a good idea. Yeah, it's probably a good idea to be prepared. But what we also noticed is we knew some people that had this whole elaborate plan for how everything was going to happen. And then it was sad to see them be disappointed almost in a way after the birth because the birth didn't go any way, any which way according to the plan. There's a lot of factors with birth that are outside of your control. You just can't control very much. And so I was like, I don't... Not that it's like...

that sounds kind of bad though because it's like don't plan because you could be disappointed. But like I think it's good to come up with a plan. It's really good to be knowledgeable. But it also depends on the person because like for me, I wanted to enter the birthing process as calm and as peaceful as possible. And for me, I'm kind of weird. And the more I know, the more I'm like, oh, now I'm freaked out. Like I feel like for me, ignorance is bliss. And so I kind of entered Griffin's birth process calm.

Pretty blissful. I don't think there's any part of it. I was excited. I was ready to meet the baby. And I wasn't really as much thinking about the birth as much as I was thinking about life with the baby. And so I just was like, you know what? I really trust the team we have at the hospital. Things will go as they go. For you, was that the right decision? Are you glad that we didn't do all this research before? I mean, you obviously want to be informed. We were informed. We knew the basics of how things worked out. Well, I knew that every person in that room that was going to be there

was very informed. So then I was like, I don't need to know everything. And also I wasn't in a state to be making decisions. True. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't like, I wasn't wanting to call any shots. Like I wanted to be taken care of because I was in a place where I was like, I don't need, I just need to focus on my body and like right now. Like, so it was,

It was the right decision for me. Yeah. And it sucks. It also sucks. Like, again, everyone can do whatever they want to do and that's your decision. But for us, like I kept hearing stories of people who might've done like a water birth and then they like started to go for it. But then, then you have to rush the hospital because something goes wrong or the baby's not coming out or it's just like not a fun situation to be. So I was glad that we like,

with the decision we made, you know, we were in a hospital, people knew what was going on. And when this shoulder dystocia thing happened, luckily the doctors and nurses knew what to do. 'Cause I don't, I had no idea. I didn't even know what that was. I still don't fully understand what shoulder dystocia is. - Well, I feel like I'm treading on like tricky grounds here because birth has so many fields of thought and I think it's so personal to each person.

And I'm like, do whatever you want to do. If you like, however way you want to go about it, go about it. You know, so like I respect everyone's decision for me personally. I want to be in the hospital. Felt good about that. And I felt personally good about being induced. I felt good about all those. I felt good about the epidural. Felt good about all of it.

Well, I think if you wouldn't have been induced, I think you would have gotten an emergency C-section with that first pregnancy. With how things went with the birth, I feel like... 100%. He was a big baby. And you're a little lady. You're so little. Which doesn't mean it's not possible, but it has a lot to do with your structure. And I think that because of...

The way my... And you couldn't know before. But, like, because of the way my bones were and my pelvis, that he got stuck. So, Griffin did get stuck briefly. Just his shoulders. So, his head was out and the shoulders were stuck. And it was an intense moment. I don't remember it super well. I feel like mentally I, like, separated. It felt like it was, like...

Not long like less than 60 seconds. Yeah, wouldn't you say? With him being stuck? Oh, yeah, it was not super long And I think that they had a hard time like getting you out of the way because you were so locked in on me Like and it was an intense moment. It's like a blur. What was it like for you? Cuz you saw everything dude, um, I think there's just information overload for me like it was just all happening so fast and

Did you know something was wrong? Yeah, I did. Especially when I got pushed out of the way. I was like, frick. Like, something's going on. But I don't think...

Griffin wasn't stuck for that long, luckily. No. Like, they got him out pretty soon. And they really went to work. Yeah. So, what they did is they, like, basically, like, put my legs, like, way up. Yeah. And then every, like, a bunch of nurses came and, like, pushed on my belly and then, like, basically ejected him. Yeah. And thankfully, once they, like, intervened, it went really, my doctor said everything after that went really smoothly. Yeah.

Nothing traumatic happened to my body. I mean, I tore, but that happens. It wasn't anything serious with that. Griffin was okay. He had a hairline, collarbone fracture. Nothing was serious. He was fine. They didn't have to do any interventions on him afterwards. Everything worked out. But there are some situations where that happens and the outcome can result in some...

scary results. Yeah. And, um, that's kind of like what I heard going into the 24 week appointment. Yeah. So here's the deal, you guys, um,

Um, Abby is so close to the third trimester now. Are you? Wait, I thought it's 27 weeks that you're in the third. Or is it 28? I think it's 28. Dude, we're less than a month away. I'm two weeks away. We're... Yeah. Oh, wait. No, no. Less than a month. Three weeks. You're so, so close. And so Abby had the 24-week appointment. That's almost two weeks ago now, right? Yeah. And with that appointment, we got some... We got some big news. So basically...

I went, I've never gone to a baby appointment alone. Well, yeah, let's talk about that because Griffin was unfortunately sick and he was sick because I got him sick and I got him sick because Abby got me sick. So our whole entire family got sick. It was all going around. I've heard of so many people getting sick recently. I don't know. Yeah, sickness is in the air. Okay, so our whole family got sick. And we didn't want to bring Griffin into the appointment. Yeah, and we didn't want to get him a sitter. And it was a bummer because that was the first pregnancy appointment that I ever missed.

You did miss. Wait. The second baby. Shoot. With the second baby, things are changing. I did miss one already. You're right. This is the second appointment that I've missed. Yeah. Because with that one, I was busy trying to get our luggage back after we traveled in from. Yeah. We had a whole fiasco with our luggage getting stuck at the airport because then we flew into Tucson by accident or not by accident. There was a storm. We couldn't land in Phoenix. We landed in Tucson. We drove. We rented a car, drove home. Anyway, it's a long, crazy story. We actually made a vlog about this.

that is I think the vlog is titled getting our life back together anyway that whole thing happened I did miss a pregnancy appointment and you know what it's really fine because like I feel like having pregnancies so close together I'm like pals with everyone in the office I know the drill I feel like way comfortable in there it's just more like if it's an ultrasound like of course I want you to be there for an ultrasound to see the baby but like this one was just a routine like they weigh you they measure your belly they send you on your way or so I thought so I

I go in, I get weighed, and then I'm just waiting for the doctor. And this is the same doctor that delivered Griffin. And we've known from the very beginning that

This woman, I feel like, is good in a crisis. Like, the situation with Griffin, like, the shoulder dystocia, she was calm, collected. She got it taken care of quickly. And, like, I felt really safe with her there. And, like, during the birth, it was amazing. Now, the appointments leading up, I wouldn't say she's the most –

what fluffy person would you say like she's not like warm and cozy yeah i think there's a big difference like you want your doctor to be a good freaking doctor like it doesn't

if they're like all super warm and cozy and like bubbly, right? Because someone could be all warm and cozy and bubbly but suck as a doctor. You don't want that person to be your doctor. Yeah, I'd much rather have her be the way that she is. She's good. She's a very good doctor. But then most of the time I prefer for a nurse practitioner to do the appointments because then I can like ask all my silly questions or like any like little concern I feel comfortable presenting to the nurse practitioner whereas our doctor I'm like a little bit more hesitant because I'm like, I don't want to bother him.

Which not to say, I'm sure there's doctors out there that are very good at being doctors and also like the bedside manner and, and yeah, very like warm and cozy and bubbly and stuff. Um,

Yeah, I'm sure those people out there exist, but it just happens that Abby's very direct. Yeah, it's just very like, hey, this is just how what's going to happen. And I am not a direct person at all. Like you'll never find me be blunt, really, which is actually funny enough. I think that's a cause for some conflict in our marriage because I like when I get feedback, I love receiving. Oh, yeah. Hey, Matt, you could do this better. Change this. Like I do like encouragement, but I just like people to tell it. Tell it to me straight with Abby. If Abby's like, hey, Matt, um,

Can you take a look at this TikTok that I made? And I'll be like, yeah, this is great, but I would change this, this, and this. And she's like, you hate it. You never say this is great first. You're always, you get two seconds in the video and it's like, I wouldn't do that. You're right. You're right. You're not going to give me it. I work. I work. I need to keep working on making sure I use the poop sandwich method, which is where with a poop sandwich, you say a kind thing first, then you give your critiques and then you end with a kind thing. Also, I think I'm good at taking criticism from other people.

but just not my husband actually yeah better than me you don't i think for me you don't want me to give any criticism at all you really just want encouragement even if you're asking for criticism i think you're really just saying flatter me tell me nice things which is what i do to you no but i actually the thing is i really want you to give me real like feedback and criticism i just want to look no i know that was just really nice but i want you to give me real feedback like i i love i love constructive criticism

Anyway, how did we get here? Our doctor did not deliver a poop sandwich that day. She did not deliver a poop sandwich. She just gave you poop on a platter. She gave you poop on a platter. So, I'm sorry.

Why are you laughing so much at that? The way you said that was just so funny. She did not give me a poop sandwich. She gave me poop on a silver platter. And essentially she just walked in there and was like, hey, we're going to have to do a C-section. And you're just like, what? Like walk me through that. Yeah. So she just like comes in. She's like.

you know your husband was a large baby griffin was on the bigger side um this baby's already measuring big did my mom say that i was nine pounds i think i was like you were over nine pounds was that like nine two or nine four you were over a nine pound baby but your brothers were over 10 pounds yeah so i was the runt i was the little baby at nine pounds two ounces um and so she was like you know

you know what? People, small ladies deliver large babies all the time. Yeah. And I think there's a lot more factors than size involved. Totally. But anyway, so she comes in, she's like, Griffin, you know, Griffin had shoulder dystocia. And then she goes and like lists all of the things that could have happened to Griffin. What did she say? Because of shoulder dystocia. She like mentioned brain trauma, like brain damage. Yeah.

Well, it's probably the oxygen. If you don't get oxygen fast enough. I mean, she was like listing the things that could have gone wrong, like very, very major. Now, when you first called and talked to me about all this, I think you were really shaken up. So I was trying to just be an encourager. Well, yeah. But can you walk me through, now that it's been a little bit of time, can you walk me through like what all did she actually say? Well, I don't remember everything because I was just kind of like, I feel like in my mind, she was literally like,

Your baby could have had brain trauma, brain failure, maybe even death. Like she like... She did mention death? I don't know. I feel like my brain kind of just over... It was just like an information overload. It was information overload. So she was just listed all these super scary things that could have happened potentially. And thank goodness they didn't. Which I think she was just wanting to inform you. I think she was just wanting you to be aware of that information. It was a fact. It wasn't like... But no poop sandwich was used. No poop sandwich was used. And then I think...

I just like got quiet. Yeah. Like I was kind of like silent and then I was like, okay. And then she's like, basically she's like, so then that means that she's like, well, did you deliver him early? I was like, yeah, upon your recommendation, like I was induced at 39 weeks. And then she's like, well, I can't induce you any earlier, which I wasn't asking to be induced earlier, but like that would be the other, like, I think in the past, like your mom was induced quite a bit earlier than 39 weeks because of the baby size. Yeah. And, um,

They just don't do that. They want the baby to stay cooking as long as possible. They're safest in there and they're developing and that's really important. And so anything before 39 weeks would not be safe for the baby unless there's other circumstances involved. Did you cry? My voice started getting shaky when she was talking about everything that could have happened to Griffin because I was like, oh, that's the worst thing. As a parent, I think something could have...

gone like happened your baby so now my voice like started getting shaky and then she's like so like I would feel like we she's like I think that her phrasing was like you really need to consider a c-section yeah and I was like so shocked by that for some reason and I think like my mentality with this second pregnancy is

While I do feel like I had minor birth trauma from the first birth, my thinking was like from talking to other moms, they always said like the second baby just slipped right out. So then I was like, oh, well, like it's going to be so much smoother this second time. I forgot about that. Yeah. So then I was like thinking that this wouldn't be like – I definitely wasn't anticipating that. I was thinking like, okay, my doctor would think like, okay, now that we've had – she's had one baby, like the second baby would be a lot smoother. But then the fact that she had like a lot of concerns about the birth for the second baby –

Kind of like threw me off. And then I was like surprised and caught off guard. And then also scared because of everything she was saying. And so then I was like, okay. All right. And then I think she could tell I was like a little bit like taken aback. Slash like not happy with that. Yeah. And so she was like...

like well I mean it's up to you ultimately like whatever you want to do and then I was like well the only thing I really care about is that my baby is yeah arrives safely and healthy and then I also know there's so many moms that deliver their babies via c-section so I was like I know that it's gonna be safe for me and so I was like well the only thing that matters is that the baby comes safely she's like yeah so we'll keep monitoring it but we just need to start that conversation now

Why did that have to happen at the – okay, not the one appointment, but the second appointment that I missed? Like one of the few appointments that I'm not at. Why did that conversation happen without me there? I think you would have been a lot better at like asking questions. Yeah. Whereas like I was too afraid to ask questions because I thought that I would cry. Really? Because I was just feeling so taken aback. Now being at this place two weeks later, I'm like it's not a big deal. Like whatever –

You know, maybe I have one, maybe I don't. Likely it looks like I might. Yeah. Because, like, I just want the baby to be safe, arrive safely. And, you know, if that means also that the baby can stay in the womb longer to continue to, like, develop, then, of course, I'm down for that. Do they do C-sections early or at 40 weeks? I don't really know. I think they might.

I don't know. What's nice too, I guess like, have you officially made your decision to do a C-section? Not officially. Okay. But I think that it's like looking like that would be the case because it's like none of the risk factors are going to change for the second baby because my bones aren't going to change. Yeah. You know, and you are at an increased risk for it to happen again. Yeah. The baby's already measuring large again. So it's just like, I don't, I don't see any of those risk factors changing because

Unless I talk to her more and I feel like I'm going to take my doctor's recommendation. Yeah. Have you done some of your own research? I think you were looking some things up. So I started to do some of my own research. Okay. And I'm definitely going to continue to do that. I have time. I'm like at the time of filming this, I'm 26 weeks. So I have time. Crazy. Dude.

We're so close. I know, but there's still time to do research and I've already started. So it's like the more I learn about it, the more I'm like, you know, no one knows how they were delivered. Like really? Unless you ask, like it doesn't. That's true. It doesn't really. No one knows how a mom delivered her baby either. Just by like.

It's like it's birth is birth and it can look a lot of different ways. Totally. And I think I even though I went in with an open mind, I still had these preconceived like in my head. I was still like, but I'll deliver vaginally. And then now I'm like, wait, what? Why am I so thrown off by this? But it's like because I didn't actually have like as open of a mind as I thought. Totally. You know, that's what it's looking like now. I'm hearing that news on that day.

Tears. Yeah, I remember. So I got a phone call from Abby and she was just bawling. And I was like, whoa, slow down. Like, what's going on? What's going on? And you were trying to like get your words out and talk to me. Well, the first thing I said was the baby's healthy. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, everything's OK. I was like, OK, good. Yeah. And I remember you saying to me, I feel bad for...

being so upset because our baby's like so healthy and like I need to be thankful for that which is which is valid like I think it's it's important to recognize like the worst thing would have been hearing something's wrong with the baby totally but I think your your feelings were still valid in that your expectations for what the birth would look like the birth plan whatever even though we don't have like a true our birth plan was so loose it was it was such just like a hey we'll just go in and do this regular vaginal delivery and

That was flipped upside down though because it was told, hey, you probably shouldn't do a vaginal delivery. I think also the background of having just gone through a major like abdominal surgery with – I had a double hernia repair between the two pregnancies. I was like, ugh. Yeah. I don't want to go through that recovery again because I think the recovery from the double hernia repair was way harder than –

my recovery postpartum. Yeah. Also for me in general, like the idea of surgery, I'm like, I don't know why I'm just like, oh, I don't love it because especially surgery I'm gonna be awake for.

That is weird. I don't understand why with C-sections they can't just put you fully out. I'm sure there's some reason. I'm sure we could just Google it and find out. But that is interesting to me that you have this massive surgery and you're awake. Like there's just a sheet in front of you and you can feel your body like moving and stuff. Yeah. That's so interesting. I don't like love that. And they like take your organs out and like rip your abdomen. I mean, the people that do these surgeries have done it so many times. No, and that's the thing. I'm like, they know what they're doing. And like so many people get C-sections. So I'm like,

it's gonna be fine like but I was just like oh gosh like that's and here here's ultimately what it boils down to is that like I thought that I could enter the second birth with confidence knowing I've done this before but this doesn't feel like anything I've done before so then I'm like I'm starting at square one again when it comes to the birthing process you know yeah and postpartum process because that's something else I've been looking at a lot is like what is

postpartum recovery like from a C-section because it's got to be pretty different. Yeah, and I've heard it sucks. I've heard it's not fun. But I will say you had a lot of people though when you had your hernia surgery reaching out and saying, hey, by the way,

I feel for you because hernia surgery recovery was even worse than recovery from a C-section is what a lot of people told you, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I think like knowing that you can do a hernia, like a hernia repair recovery, you had a double hernia repair. So I think knowing that you can get through that, I think you got this. It's not like I feel fear, really. At this point, I'm like, oh, it's whatever it is. Whatever is whatever. Like, I think that it just is a bummer that

I thought I could enter this with like some, like I said, like some confidence. Whereas it's like, it's not that I don't feel confidence that like, I don't have the confidence that comes from someone that's, you know, lived and experienced before. It's just like, I have confidence just in the medical team and, you know, technology.

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We'd really appreciate your help in pushing the podcast out to more people. And now back to the episode. Or you can even like share it with a friend. Hey, yeah. Could you share this with a friend? Okay. Thanks. Back to the episode. There's no set decisions, but I feel like I'm at a point where I'm just kind of like flustered. I think, okay. I truly believe that everything's going to be okay.

Regardless. Oh, it will be. Like, with whichever decision you decide to make, I think everything's going to be okay. So, that's good. But it definitely is important to take a doctor's advice seriously. Like, I think sometimes...

We can think, oh, I feel a certain way. Like, I don't know. It's probably best just to go with a medical expert's advice because they've gone to school for that. And like, what the freak do we know, honestly, right? Not exactly. It's just hard because I feel like

There is like a little bit of like shame. Shame. Attached to it. You feel shame for doing a C-section? I personally don't think I do, but I feel like I feel the effects of like a culture of people that. Really? So you feel like, oh, you didn't have your birth naturally or like vaginally, then you didn't give birth to your baby. It's like you feel like you missed out on like.

stage of motherhood. That's what, so is that where the emotions came from when you were told? I guess I'm crying now, but like, I guess maybe, I don't know. I'm sorry. I don't know why I'm crying. I think it's just hormones, but yeah. But like, I didn't have like that experience with Griffin really either. So yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not expecting to cry. No, I think I'm, I'm so sorry. Like that. I, I don't even, I don't know what that's like. I don't know what that feels like to, uh,

what to deliver just like the regular way I guess and then being like to feel that you're told oh you can't do that sorry like I don't I don't know what that's like well like they didn't say I couldn't do it but I think it was just like I don't know maybe it's just comparison like you should never compare like my experience with somebody else's experience or like

Like this in your mind, my experience with my previous experience in your mind, are you being, is there a voice in your mind that's like, oh, you're less of a mother because you're not doing. I sure hope not. But I don't know if you were to really deep dive into my psyche. I don't know. Yeah. I don't feel that way truthfully, but like, I just feel like because there's so much pressure to like do things in a natural way. Oh, like in our, in our modern movement of like moving to natural. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

It's like I already know that I'm not going to read the comments on this podcast because I know that there's going to be like a lot of people that are against epidurals or inductions or C-sections or like tell me like your body was made to do this so like you shouldn't.

a C-section or things like that. I don't know. So... I think there's a lot of opinions on this topic and I think it's because... It's hard. Like, everybody... Most people go through this and... Like, everyone goes through this in some way or another because either... Everyone.

- Everyone's been born. - Exactly, everyone's been born. So everyone's had a mother, everyone's had family members or friends or colleagues or somebody that they know go through this. So I think that's why everybody has an opinion and I think that's why it can be so toxic at times.

For instance, like parenting advice. Like we will show our family and then people will give us unsolicited advice about our family and how to parent our kids. Yeah. And it's like, well, we didn't ask you. You know, we didn't ask for your opinion. Well, and here's the thing is everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. And I'm sharing it on the internet. So they're entitled to have their own opinion on my own opinion. Oh, everyone is definitely entitled to that. But I think that... Whether or not you have a C-section has no bearing on your value as a mother. I know. Like you are just as much of an amazing mom as...

Getting it, going through a vaginal birth or a C-section. Both also have their challenges too. Or as an adoptive mom who don't experience the birth process at all. Yeah, you're still a mom. Yeah. Exactly. So it's just like, and I know all that stuff. I think that... Your value as a mom is not dependent on the way that you bring a baby into the world. Exactly. And I know that. I truly do know that. It's so weird. Like, I don't even know why I'm just like getting upset about it, but it's...

It's so weird. I will say it did shock me. I think when you were really emotional about it, I think it did shock me. I shocked myself being emotional about it. Yeah. I was like, wait, why do I care so much? Yeah. But also I think sometimes I forget that like- Hormones are crazy. Hormones are crazy. Yeah. Like you woke up from a nap the other day.

And you woke up from the nap bawling. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, what's wrong? And you were just – I didn't know. I think you were just sleepy. And I think like you didn't know how to feel. And I think you were just so over it. And I think you felt really uncomfortable that day too. You might have had a headache that day. Yeah. Sometimes it's just like it all piles up and then I can only cry. Yeah. Yeah.

Hormones are so wild. And you know what actually takes me off? What? What? What are you going to say? This is probably what last week was about. What? I'm allowed to talk about hormones, Matt. You're not allowed to talk about hormones.

When you're like, oh, you're hormonal. I'm like, literally send shivers down my spine. I listened to a video about how to. What did you do? I was like, okay, we need to. This is, we're going back to our fight from last week. It's like, we need to. Something needs to change. Okay. I don't even think there was one specific fight last week. I think it was a series of. It was a series of unfortunate events is what it was. But I.

But I was watching a video on YouTube. I like to just like listen to like podcast clips and just like I listen to a lot of podcasts on YouTube. Honestly, that's where I get my podcasts. But I was listening to a video about like a dad, like giving giving dad advice. And it was like it was really, really good advice. And something he said was like, don't take it personally. And it's like it's hard because like I think if someone's like a

butt cheek to you i'm not referring to our marriage no i'm not calling you a butt cheek but just like in life in general like say someone just some random person being mean to you don't take it personally because like you don't know what's going on in their day you don't know what's going on with their hormones you don't know if they just found out that their dad died you don't know you don't know what the freak's going on and with you as my wife like even though it takes a it takes you have to take a stance of humility and selflessness and you have to just like

You have to just say, okay, I know that this, someone yelling in my face might make me mad or like someone saying sassy, like being told something sassy could hurt my feelings. But with what you're going through, you're going through a lot. You're going a baby. I can't take it personally. If something happens, even if you make a sassy comment, if you, I don't know, whatever it may be, don't take it personally. And I thought that was really good. Well, and I think I could exercise restraint more sometimes. Yeah.

Sometimes it just feels like when you're pregnant, like you're going through a conflict like within your own body all day. And so then if anything else goes wrong, you're like –

this yeah also I was thinking about this Abby because this guy was saying don't take it personally and he was also I don't know if this is the right wording but he basically was saying like you're the problem like all these issues that you want to blame on other people he was like you're the problem like it's easier to fix yourself it's easier to change yourself than to change other people so if you can change yourself and your outlook and your perspective then you're gonna be happier and imagine if we both thought that we were

the problem. Exactly. If we both just take on this view of like, I'm the problem. Don't take it personally. I think we would just be way happier. Yeah. And it takes humility and it takes selflessness to have that. When you have two people in a marriage doing that, I think it leads to a much happier marriage. But

It's like we have three people though because we have me, you, and the pregnancy. That's true. Because I don't want to claim everything that pregnant Abby does when she cries after a nap or when she has a temper tantrum. But it was so funny hearing this guy say, you're the problem. Don't take it personally. I'm like, that is so different than our culture right now. Like our culture right now is like –

Everyone else is the problem. Everyone else is the problem. Society is the problem. Your parents are the problem. Your friends, their problem. Like, like you, I'm so sorry what you've been through. Like all it's the world that is, is making your decisions for you. That's interesting because in psychology, remember learning about the locus of control? What is that? Like the,

Okay, wow. I don't actually know a lot about this, but I remember them saying like you could have an internal locus of control where it's like all the problems I'm experiencing, I can problem solve and fix them. If you have an external locus of control, it leads to like mental illness because it's like imagine feeling like...

You know, there's everything wrong and there's nothing I can do about it. And so it's like kind of like learned helplessness maybe? It's like, oh, like I can't. And so, yeah, that's interesting. No, it's really interesting. And I think it's fascinating because I think culture in the past –

has had a very, very harsh view of that. I think like our parents and our grandparents were probably told, you're the problem, figure it out, suck it up. And so they had this very hard view to one side. And now I think to balance that out, our culture is like, no, it's okay. It's not your fault. You don't need to take responsibility for your own actions. It's other people's fault. Like your decisions are not your own. And so people feel they can just play the blame game and blame everyone else except for themselves.

And I think both are equally wrong. I think we need to find a middle ground, right? That's the most issue. Exactly. And I love like Aristotle was... I'm sorry, I'm talking about philosophy now. Aristotle was a philosopher that talked about how balance is like the most important thing in life. I forget. It's been a while since I had my philosophy class in college. Balance is my word of 2023. But balance is so important because if you go too far to the side of everyone else is the problem, not me, that's so unhealthy. And if you go too far to the side of like...

I'm the only one like it's all my fault. You gotta go to a middle ground. And so I think what I realized is like, I'm blaming, I'm blaming you too much. I'm blaming external factors too much. I need to freaking take on full responsibility and just be like, I, I need to, you know, I don't want to use any appropriate, inappropriate words, but I gotta suck it up. And, uh, just, I was going to say balls. I was gonna be like, I need to grow some balls. I need to grow some balls and just be like, I'm the problem. Don't take it personally. No,

Yeah. No, I'm just kidding. But that's interesting. You know when you were talking about like when someone's like everyone else is the problem. Like what was me? Doesn't like everyone say that these days? You know what kind of made me think about was my Starbucks adventure last week. What happened? Remember I told you I went to Starbucks to get a chai latte. I'll keep it short because I truthfully I have no idea what's going on in this woman's life. Like I wish her well. She probably does. Yeah.

But she just – Probably experiencing a rough patch. Yeah. So – but it wasn't funny. Okay. And true. Like we don't know if she has mental illness. We don't know if she – like we don't know what her life story is. You're right. So yeah. But what happened was I was at Starbucks working. So I was there for like a decent amount of time, like a couple hours. And I was just drinking my chai latte. And when I walked in, there was a woman that was sound asleep.

next like at a table yeah she didn't appear to be homeless um i don't know what's going on in her life but she did have like a huge suitcase so she looked honestly like a tired traveler like she was clean well-fed like things she looked okay and um but just sound asleep and finally after about 30 minutes a manager walks over and is like ma'am can you please um

Like, you can't sleep in here. Like, you need to take it somewhere else. And she immediately got really disruptive. Like, yelling at the manager. Like, blaming everything else that, like...

on like her sleeping like everything everything was like making her mad and she was you know throwing insults at the manager throwing like making accusations at him and like the the starbucks itself like she wasn't being appropriate like the way she was handling it and so then he was like finally like they went back and forth for so long he just walks away and he's like you need to leave and finally she like makes her way to leave and as she's exiting the starbucks

I mean, I don't think there's one person in the Starbucks that would think that this fall was a real fall. Yeah. She executed the most dramatic fall outside this, like leaving like the doorway, you know, the suitcases on the ground. She's like laying there, won't move, wailing. Like. Did she like chuck her stuff everywhere? Yeah. Like there.

Like there's no visible injuries. She's wailing and she's saying that the, she's making accusations about the Starbucks. She's blaming the workers. Like trying to like threaten to sue or something. Yeah. She was making threats and then she demands free drinks and food. While she's on the floor. While she's on the ground. So the manager, doesn't the manager say, I'm going to call an ambulance. He's like, this looks serious. I'm going to call an ambulance. And then she gets so mad that he's going to call an ambulance. And he's like, ma'am, like, I don't know how you're going to, if you're not able to get up, then you need an ambulance. Cause she won't get up.

either and she's blocking the entrance that people can't come in finally they coax her to sit in a chair prop her legs up they give her an ice pack there's no visible injuries which is the most ridiculous because the fall was so dramatic this makes me so mad at our generation bringing her all these free things and she was threat making threats the whole time even though they did everything she wanted she was making threats i was like that just reminded me of that that just makes me i i

I hope she gets to a place where she doesn't feel the need to do that. I don't like it when like older people make fun of our generation or like the younger generation's so crappy. But like that right there is that that pisses me off. It was a little bit. It was a bit dramatic. Just just being dramatic and trying to act like you're not the problem just that you can get. It was entitlement is what it was. She just thought that she could get everything for free. I don't like entitlement and I love when people take...

Take self-responsibility and just grow up. And I don't know. I'm inspired. And then she sat there and did all her whole makeup as she – did I tell you that next? She did her makeup. She was drinking her free drinks and doing her makeup. She was drinking her free drinks and then doing a full face of makeup sitting there. What? I was like –

She really just made this Starbucks her home in which everything in the fridge was hers and she was comfortable. Anyway, where do we go from this? So we were talking about... Well, we have some exciting news that we haven't shared is that we have some helpers moving in with us coming in.

Coming soon to help with the two babies because we're going to have our hands full. Yeah. So postpartum, from what I've looked up, recovery from a C-section is longer than a vaginal delivery. And so I was feeling like a little bit overwhelmed with recovery. We've planned this for a while. But then I remembered that we have had some secrets. Some secrets. We're sharing some secrets on this episode. It's a secret. Should we whisper it?

Because my parents are moving in with us. Abby's parents are moving in with us. They're moving in in June and baby's coming in August. And we are so truthfully excited. Isn't our podcast studio literally going to be their living room?

We're going to have to do some remodeling. I got to take a video for the viewers right now. This is so funny. Right now, we've got like junk everywhere. This is, you know, our lighting and camera equipment. But right now we have like all this stuff over on the side. I don't even know whose mattress that is. I don't know whose mattress that is either. So anyway, we will clear this up. Do you actually know the story behind that mattress? I don't know the story behind the mattress. It arrived in our pod to our house with a mattress pad on it. And it had period blood on it. That is... Wow. Okay. It wasn't mine. It wasn't mine.

Let's donate it. Because I never had a period. Anyway, we have all this stuff over here, but we're going to make space for Abby's grandparents because they're, I mean, Abby's parents who are Griffin's grandparents and our future second baby's grandparents. So yeah, I think we need extra hands. And we are just like so grateful that we are in a position where they are willing to come and like actually live with us. It makes us so happy because there's no better person to watch our children than our own parents. Yes. When we can.

Like obviously we want to – we're the primary caregivers of our kids. And what I love too, Abby, is when you were a kid, you would go over to your grandparents' house on Friday or Saturday nights? Friday nights. Every single Friday night even through high school, right? Yeah, unless I was like hanging out with friends. That's crazy. We would spend the night at our grandparents' house and we had just like the closest relationship with them. And that was your parents' date night and so we're going to have to do that same thing. I think it's going to be so –

Honestly, I just love having lots of people in our house. And you know what? It's a recent thing. It's really a Western culture thing to not... The more I'm reading that book, Hunt, Gather, Parent. Yes. And the more I'm reading that, I'm realizing Western culture, we've somehow adopted this very individual mindset where when it comes to parenting specifically, it's like we make it extra hard on ourselves. I don't like that. Why can't we do more things as a community? Yeah, it does take a village to raise a kid. And there's so many... It's like why...

The people that know the least about parenting are the ones that are expected to take on 100% of it. Well, I think we're just happier. Like I think if we live life in a community, we're just so much happier. I've spent so many days now that we like content creation is our job. And so like I've spent so many days where I don't leave the house and I just sit and edit.

And like it can after a while gets depressing. Like I'm pretty content being being alone. I love having big ideas and seeing my big ideas come in, come to fruition. It's really fun to work on a video that you really are passionate about. You're a visionary. I love it. Yeah, I love it. I love being a creative. But like if I'm isolated for too long, it's depressing. And so I'm so excited to have your parents in our house. Like people ask me, are you how do you feel like your in-laws living with you? Yeah, most husbands.

would not be really stoked about their in-laws moving in. But I also do think our house sets us up for success in that we have a wing of our house. There's two rooms, this room, which is our podcast studio, and there's a bedroom right behind the wall that I'm facing right now. It's a wing makes it sound like it's not a wing. It's really massive, but there

is a there's a separate like area like living room yeah so we have two rooms in our house that we really have not been using and those two rooms become abby's parents like space which would be nice that we have our own space and we don't get in each other's hair um and i'm hoping that that can work out for a long time yeah they live out of state right now so yeah i have not lived in the same state as my parents since i was 18 holy frick dude we're almost 20 i turned 25 in a month

I've not lived with my parents since I was in high school. That's almost seven years. That's crazy. So it's going to be – I'm like really – I mean I'm really close with them. So even though we haven't lived in the same state, like it's not going to be a crazy transition I'm assuming. But I mean living under the same roof again, that's going to be interesting. It will be interesting. And it'll be – so they're moving to Arizona where we live and they'll be eventually finding their own house in Arizona. But then Matt keeps saying he's like, I just want them to stay.

It'll just be nice. Going to the Suns game last night, I was like, it would be so great if we didn't have to find sitters and we could just be like, hey, we're going to a Suns game. Can you watch our babies? It's just so convenient for us to get to go do things and we trust your parents to watch our kids. I feel a lot of peace as a parent with my parents watching my babies. The

And the thing is, it's like, it's not like we're forcing them. Like they want. No, your mom loves watching. Yeah. They want more than. It's kind of, I think you get your emotional side from your mother because every time, every time we leave, you're like, after we stay with your parents for a week and we leave, your mom cries every time. So do I most of the time. But now I think it's like, she has such a strong connection to Griffin. Like she, she just hates seeing Griffin get older and older without her like being there. I know. Every time I'm like, oh, he started doing this. She's like, he's going to be all grown up by the time we get to Arizona. I'm like, mommy, we'll even be one. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's going to be a big transition for them. They lived in the same town their entire lives. The same small town in Illinois their entire lives. It's weird. And so I think there's a lot of anticipation. So I think that living with us for a little bit is going to be a good transition for them because it's like they don't have to figure out a new place to live, like all these other things. Totally.

It's going to be so fun in our house. Like sometimes- Should we do a shout out for your dad? Abby's dad is a dispatcher for a trucking company. Yeah, you should. And he needs a job. So if you are a trucking company owner and you're looking for a dispatcher, Matt Biswell is your guy. He's like a load planner, fleet manager, any of those types of things. I'm just saying buzzwords because I'm like-

No one really knows what their dad does. You know what I mean? No one knows what their dad does. I don't know what the freak my parents do. So it's like, I'm just going to say the words I've heard him say. Fleet manager, dispatcher, shipping. And he's done this job his whole life, which is kind of scary. I'm like, I don't think your dad has ever...

yeah i mean he's just he's just done the same job in the small town his whole life this is big your parents are moving here i'm excited he has a lot of other great qualities though too that make him a good employee your dad is a your dad is the best employee very dedicated man like our parents generation like your dad does never work misses a day of work no he has like so many sick days built up doesn't even take him he won't take i'm like just take a day off he's like i'm not sick i'm not gonna just say you're sick and just enjoy a day you have a sick day he would never he

He's a man of integrity. Yeah. But so yeah, I'm so excited because imagine you just like waking and we have like family. I don't know. It's going to be really sweet. And I think that it's really something that's not that uncommon in the past, but now it's like sounds so different.

It's so weird nowadays. Well, what I told Abby is like, it'll be so nice being at the NBA game last night. I was like, what if we like stayed out and like went to the club or like went dancing or something? Like we can stay up late and like do pretend that we're, I don't know, parents without kids and...

for a night and then like we could sleep in the next day because your parents are there to watch our babies, you know? And we fully trust them. We fully know that you're okay. Yeah, and on the flip side, like – Because I think for you to do fun things right now, it's scary for you to do fun things. You're like, what about my babies? Like who's going to watch my baby? Who's going to take care of my baby? But having family, it's like, hey, we can sleep until noon after some fun Friday night festivities because we know that family is there. Yeah, and on the flip side of that too, it's like –

having extra hands in the house it's like oh maybe someone could make a run to the grocery store and i can just like stay back with my babies and not like have to leave and do you know little errands like just more hands in the house will just yeah i think it's gonna be so joyful yeah there probably will be uh unexpected hiccups though how are you feeling today

That was a big change of pace. But like I want to – I don't know. I feel good. I've been getting a lot of stomach aches recently. We got some good sleep last night. So I feel like you're – Yeah. I'm feeling rested. That's good. I just had a cup of coffee. I think this week is going to be a way better week than last week. It's got to be. I mean – It has to be. All right.

What happens? There's only up from last week, right? Yeah. One of us just moves out, I guess. I'm just kidding. I am so excited for our upcoming podcast episodes. We have some things in the works for some really cool guests to come on. Wait, let's say when the weeks are. We don't know. We're still planning it out. So we got some really, really cool guests coming on the show. It's going to be a blast. And I just, I love interviewing people. I'm such a curious person. I don't know who freaking gave us...

what like what makes us able to have these kinds of guests i don't freaking know dude i'm just kind of going along like if you would have told me this i would yeah even now i'm like shocked but we especially would have told me this like oh yeah three years ago i've been like wait what we had a big celebrity reach out and they yeah we had someone reach out big big celebrity and i'm just like what like are you kidding me so it's cool i can't believe this i hope i don't say anything

I'm I'm I'm crapping my pants over here. But what if I cry? What if you cry? No, I don't want to cry on it. It's OK. No, not with the celebrity on. Anyway, we love you guys. Make sure that you hit the like button and subscribe again. It really helps us out a lot because it quickly read a review. Oh, yeah. What what's a good review that we had this week? Well, we could read a bad one. Read. Oh, yeah. Read the one at the top, whether it's good or bad. Read the read the very first review. Here we go.

Amazing. Five stars. I love the podcast. You guys are so nice and kind. The podcast is my favorite thing to listen to. Wow. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys, so much. Really, really. When we see you in person, too, and say you listen to the podcast, it's like the sweetest thing. It makes me so happy. We really appreciate you. We'll see you in the next episode. Have a great day. As always, three, two, one. Peace out, dudes.