Breastfeeding, Our Big Fight & The Highs and Lows of Parenthood
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- I know that you in your heart thought that you were doing the best thing, but it wasn't doing that. It was like you were betraying me. I was like, okay, things aren't working with the baby and now things aren't working with my husband. - I understand that you should lean in the direction of breastfeeding, but with all the quarrels and fights, I was like, can we just freaking bottle feed this kid? - Why do you keep saying quarrels? What is this, Shakespeare?

- I don't know. The highs and lows are insane. You have these really elevated moments of, wow, this is so cool, we're parents. And then like two seconds later, it's like, and it's like, this is horrible. Our marriage is ending. Does that make me a weirdo that I think it's so hot when your boobs are out and you're breastfeeding my baby? - No, it makes sense, I guess. - I think it's hot. - How dare you? I'm just kidding.

What's up dudes? Welcome back to the Unplanned Podcast. Wait, am I supposed to say that part with you? I don't know. Do you want to? Yeah. You could if you want to. You want to do it again? Yeah. Okay. And welcome. Oh, we did. Yeah. Okay. We should just move on at this point. Let's just keep on going. Okay. I just wanted to say thank you guys so much for

all the kind comments on the episode about our birth experience. I saw so many that were like, I know Abby doesn't read the comments, but Matt, tell her that we're rooting for her and we're here for her and we can relate to all the emotions and feelings that she's going through. So you guys are just truly the best. That was so nice. There's so many kind people out there.

It is so nice. Like I said, I don't usually read comments just because it's kind of a self-preservation thing. Yeah, you got to do what's best for yourself. You got to do what you got to do. And I'll let you know when I see some really nice ones. Which, by the way, they're all so nice. It does feel really nice to have, like, such a sweet community of moms that also have been through the same thing.

walk in life. And I was also very encouraged too because I saw so many that were just saying that we're going to get through this and they were, you know, you guys were thanking us for just being real about the status of our marriage and like how things have been hard. We're still married. We're still married. We're still going strong.

But like. Wait, can I say a quick disclaimer? Yeah, quick. If you hear a little grunt or sighs, it's because Augie's joining us today. Yeah. If you're not like a video listener. Yeah, if you're listening on audio. You might hear him and not see him, but he's here just snuggling with me while we do this. It's hard to get away. It's hard.

I also just don't want to. I love all the snuggles. It just gave me hope, though, because so many people were like, yeah, the beginning is really freaking hard, but it just gets better. And I know that. But when you're in the midst of it, it's hard to remember that. It's hard to remember that there's light at the end of the tunnel. But think about it. Like three months from now, we'll look back and be like, oh, my God.

- Oh my gosh, that little newborn sweetie. Like he is just figuring out the world. He's been in a womb. - And everyone's comments about my song. We posted the music video yesterday at the time of filming this and you guys have just been so kind. So thank you. We just have the best community on here. We really appreciate you guys. You're so kind. And thank you to everybody that's gone to Spotify and actually like listened to it. It's crazy to see that you guys are actually listening to the song. - It's so good. It literally gets stuck in my head all the time. And then I'm like, oh yeah,

Matt wrote this song and sings this song. It meant a lot to me. It's just so professional. I don't know why, but it meant a lot to me. Like my older brother, he was never like an artsy kid. He played football. I was taking ballet in high school. You know, like we're just like very different. And he told me that he cried listening to it. So that really meant a lot. I knew that would mean so much to you. I talk about this a lot. You're like, you get feedback from a lot of people. But nothing means as much as like...

I feel like your older brother. There's something to be said there. Yes, I do. I definitely value- Which is crazy to think that's how Augie's probably going to view Griffin. That's true. Yeah, that's true. There's something about that sibling bond. Something you said to me earlier this week was husbands don't understand.

Like they just don't, they don't understand the emotion. They don't understand what you're going through. And so help me understand the emotional rollercoaster that you've been going through that you're currently going through. So first of all, I want to say I'm doing a lot better. And that's why I am very hesitant to use the word like postpartum depression or postpartum anxiety for me, because I first of all know that that's like a formal diagnosis. Yeah. And also like I don't,

I don't think that what I have constitutes that diagnosis. But basically, I tend to call it like baby blues because it just is so circumstantial and it is temporary. And I can feel like it already lifting and I'm kind of like out of that fog. So I'm doing a lot better now. But –

I was saying husbands do not understand because you have, wait, I told myself I'm not going to cry this episode. Hey, if you do, it's okay. No, I don't want to. If you don't want to, that's okay too. You got this. You can do it. It's worth it to talk about it.

Basically, how I've tried to explain to you, it's like I have gone from being the sole provider and, like, home for our son for nine months. And then all of a sudden, he's, like, literally cut out of my body. And my body does not know how to respond hormonally. Yeah. Like, it's just a crazy shift. And it's also just, like, so emotional to think that, like, now he's just, like, out in the world and susceptible to everything, like...

there's evil in the world. There's danger in the world. Like, it's just scary to think that he's susceptible to all that. And it's sad that that stage is over. And then it's just like a huge shift. And dads go through transitions of their own. But like, it's just, you can't, you can't understand that massive hormonal change all at once. I saw on Instagram. What are some, sorry, I don't want to interrupt, but what are some irrational thoughts that you've been having? Because you mentioned the other day that

There are random things that you'll think that just don't even make sense. Like weird fears that you have of something bad that could happen to your baby. So when I get mad, like if he – like I'm like, wake me up. If it's been this amount of time and he hasn't eaten –

And then I don't get woken up. And then I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, his blood sugar dropped. And he's not okay. Like, I constantly check to see that he's breathing, which is, like, so dark. Because, like, I guess that's the irrational thought that he just, like, died. Like, that happens. Or, like, I don't know. Like, what if I trip and – or, like, literally I left him sitting in a little baby carrier thing. Or it was, like, his little travel bassinet. Yeah.

And then I'm like, what if that flew off the couch and he's face planted on the hard floor? I remember driving home from the hospital. I had this irrational fear of what if he's not able to breathe right now in his car seat? Yes, that happens every time I'm in the car. Because I've heard of like situations like that where you incorrectly put your kid in the car seat and they can no longer breathe. And that would be, I can't think of a...

I'm sure there's so many other horrible things that could happen too. I don't even want to think about those things, but I can't think of a worse thing happening to a parent where it's like you put your kid in the car seat incorrectly and now they can't breathe and they pass. Like that just scared me. I almost pulled over on the way home from the hospital to check on him. But luckily, this makes me sound so bad, but I put on the self-driving feature for like...

five seconds and like just went back there made sure he was breathing and then got back on to driving it makes me feel good to know that you think some of those things too because sometimes you make me feel crazy where it's like yeah abby that's not true like while i don't want you to be like oh that's a valid fear like i want you to tell me it's not true i don't want you to be like it's nice to not feel alone and those like crazy thoughts what's funny is because they're fleeting but like

They're intense. We've had that sock, that... What's it called again? That product... Owlette. Owlette that tells you if your kid's not breathing. We've had that sock for over a year now. We never used it for Griffin. See, we were hesitant because I feel like it's going to make my irrational fears more. We've heard of those stories of parents that the alarm goes off and they freak out and go wake their kid up, but then their kid's fine. The sock just fell off or something. Yeah. Which I'm sure it's great. I think the product's awesome. That's why we bought it. But we just haven't even gotten...

We never got it out of the packaging. Yeah, I just... I don't know. I also feel like there are natural instincts to parents. Yeah. And so that's why I'm, like, hesitant to use that because then I feel like it's...

Well, I think what made me feel better is in the hospital, it's not like they provide you with like a medical sock in the hospital or they're not monitoring. If it was serious enough in the hospital, they would monitor your kid at all times because it's not like they had a monitor on Griffin or Augie when they were, you know, freshly born for the first couple of days. They're just chilling in that bassinet or in your arms. Which is honestly kind of scary when you think about it. Like they were, their environment is totally different. Who's to say that they are going to adjust everything?

So well, like... Yeah. It's kind of scary. It is scary. And that's why the feeding thing gives me so much anxiety too because, like, he has been fed through the umbilical cord, through the placenta for the whole...

duration of his existence. Yeah. And then all of a sudden he has to learn to eat and I have to learn how to feed him. And it's just like, oh my gosh. And they need to eat so often. Their tummies are so small. Don't take this question the wrong way, but I want to ask, why do you care about breastfeeding so much? What is it about breastfeeding that matters so much? You know, there's actual hormonal reasons to that. Okay. Like, I don't think that breastfeeding is the only way, but there's like strong emotions tied with breastfeeding.

Really? Like it's just part of your biology? Yes. Like a lot of women – okay. And in fact, there's some people that have like a condition. I'm not going to speak on it like I actually know this condition. But it's where you have like a strong emotional – like a very strong emotional response to like when your milk is letting down. Like when – like you don't know what down is. It's like when your milk just like –

starts flowing. And so some people like actually have to stop breastfeeding because it is linked directly to like depressing thoughts or like thoughts of like rage even. Oh gosh. There's something hormonal about it. But also I think it can release like oxytocin too. I feel like it can affect women so differently but like there is just like a hormonal reason why feeding your baby is like

So it's such an intense experience, but only for like a short period of time. It's so interesting to me because I feel like so cute. I feel like breastfeeding has probably been the number one source of our fights and quarrels and disagreements for the past two weeks of being parents to this new kid. And so I just find it so interesting because like it's it's something that you clearly really, really care about. And obviously I want I want.

what's best for you. I want what's best for the baby. And regardless if you breastfeed or not, everything's going to be fine. You weren't breastfed. Your mom didn't breastfeed you. And look, you turned out great. You know, you're an amazing person and you're beautiful. And it has nothing like no one knows who's a breastfed baby and who's a formula. Yeah. Like literally as adults, that doesn't, I understand that you should, you know, according to research, lean in the direction of breastfeeding, but

with all the corals and fives. I was like, can we just freaking bottle feed this kid? Why did you say corals? What is this, Shakespeare? I don't know. I don't know why I'm using the word coral. On your social media and like your fun research things that you'll look up in Google, like you're not looking up breastfeeding. Not at all. But like ever since we had Griffin, our first...

that's like all my social media is and all things I'm like researching. We used to share, we used to share the same TikTok account and I would know after. We still do. Well, we still do, but I actually, if I'm ever watching, I don't, I barely watch TikTok, but if I do, I'll watch it on my personal account because you've curated the For You page completely to you. It's all about like cooking, getting ready in the morning, taking care of your babies and breastfeeding and like birth. I wouldn't watch that content on my own. Well,

oh yeah, it's just interesting to me in this stage of life. But it's like I have consumed all this and so it's like I know all the different fields of thought and like, you know, everything about breastfeeding, not that I'm an expert, but it's constantly information about that is being shown to me and I'm looking it up. And so it's like I realized that early on in our baby's life is critical if we're going to have like

a very successful breastfeeding experience. Obviously, if things don't happen right away, you can, there's things you can do to make it, you know, a successful experience later on. But in general, it's going to be way easier off if you get good at it early on. And so. So the first, the first couple of days of Augie's life,

breastfeeding was a big challenge and it was really hard on the both of us, especially you. And so like, how did that make you feel? Like when you were trying to feed your kid and you couldn't, they weren't latching, things weren't going right, lots of screaming, lots of crying.

Mainly from the baby. But like, how did that make you feel when you weren't able to feed your baby? It's literally like a fight or flight response. It's like triggered. I don't know why. Like the thought of your baby not being fed is just like, it creates panic. Okay. For me at least, like especially early on. Like obviously I know my rational brain, there's formula, there's things we can do to get him fed. But in the moment, it feels like,

Yeah.

It's like mama bear where it's just like, it's not me anymore. It's just like, get this baby into a place where he is comfortable and happy and healthy and thriving. And it's like, I don't care about anything else. And when I would suggest to use formula, what was your... Oh my gosh, it was like you were betraying me. Okay. It was like you were...

Like not aligned. Betrayal is a strong word. So like literally in your mind, you're thinking, he doesn't care. You're the enemy. I'm the enemy for suggesting formula. Yeah, it felt like you're working against me. Really? Okay. Which is why I suggested, I was like, you need to talk to the lactation consultant about how you can be a good partner to a breastfeeding woman. Yeah. Because I know that you and your heart thought that you were doing the best thing by suggesting that and like relieving me.

Yeah. But it wasn't doing that. It was adding more because I was like, OK, things aren't working with the baby and now things aren't working with my husband. And so it's like I wanted us all to be aligned and like working together. And so those are certain things that like feel like they undermine. Are we talking about our big fight right now? Is that where is that what this is?

Well, we've had several fights about that. But yeah, that was the big one. That was the first one. That was the first one. In the hospital? Yeah. When you told me to leave the room, you told me to leave because you wanted some space for a little bit. Did you actually want me to leave or was it just like you wanted to see how I'd respond? I think in my heart of hearts, I wanted you to step outside and then come to this amazing realization that like,

this isn't about me right now. Okay. Like Abby's going through it and she is just trying to be the best mom she can be. And we're aligned in the same journey. And so I just want you to come right back in like maybe a minute later and just be like, Hey, I'm sorry. Like I see that you're struggling and I want to come alongside you in that. So when I walked across the street, I went to go get us donuts. I never saw a donut. Because they were out. How is Dunkin' Donuts out of donuts? Don't talk about Dunkin' Donuts like that. I love

I love Dunkin' Donuts. It's literally in the title. I'm like, wait a second. You're Dunkin' Donuts. You could have gotten me bagel minis. They didn't have anything. They were completely out of donuts, bagels. I'm like, what even is this place at this point? You know what I'm saying? That's like McDonald's running out of hamburgers. I don't believe you. I swear to you, they did not have donuts. They didn't have bagel minis? No, nothing. The stuffed everything bagel minis. Nothing. Maybe, okay, they might have had the bagel minis.

They don't have those in the case. They have to heat those up. It got heated. So you're like, I need you to leave. And so I was like, okay, I want to be respectful of what you need right now. Whenever I say I need you to leave, I just want you to like not leave actually. The problem is I, the way, and look, I'm working on it, okay? But like I need, with communication, I need like clear, direct communication. So if you say leave, I'm like, oh, she wants me to leave. So I'm going to leave. But I think it was more complex than that. What am I going to say? Hey, Matt, I need you to step outside.

for one minute and then come back in and say that you're completely wrong and that you want to hear how I'm feeling emotionally. - Actually, yes, that'd have been great if you could have told me that. - You would have done it. You were so mad you would not have done it. - When you give me very clear instructions, I'm like, thank you. 'Cause it just helps me. 'Cause then I don't have to read your mind. It's so much easier for me. - You act like you would have done it if I said it, but you wouldn't have. - No, if you would have said, hey, can you step out for two minutes and then come back and we can talk through this again, that'd have been like, oh yeah, totally.

I don't think that worked. I was just as disappointed as you were that they were out of donuts. I really, I knew that. I did not care about donuts. I was like, if you're going to leave, I just, ugh. Your parents came in the room right after that. And I feel like that was really good. No, it was. It was bad? Well, it was good and bad.

I feel like when your parents are present, it's good because it helps calm the situation with any parent. If it's my parents, your parents, or another couple, because then it's like you don't, I think emotions aren't brought into it as much. It's more of just like a logical conversation. And I feel like that's easier to work with. So your parents were there and you were expressing how you felt. And I was expressing to you that I cared about, you know, your needs. That was sad. Aw. It was sad. Why was it sad?

Every freaking podcast episode. You're making me tear up a little bit. Why? I don't know. You seem really like, you seem really defeated in a way. I don't know. No, I'm not defeated. It was just sad because I think it was like the first time where like I was like...

Like you can't be everything for me, you know? Yeah. And like in that time I needed my mom. Yeah. And that was the first time since I was like 18 where I was like, gosh, I really needed my mom right now. Cause like she knew exactly what I had been through and that's why community is so important. Like to be with other moms and to like talk about these things. I think it's really easy to see other moms killing it. And that's encouraging also and important. Like,

But then it can feel lonely when you're going through something that everyone pretty much goes through, but no one's talking about it. And you're like, man, why am I struggling? Like, why can't I pull myself up by the bootstraps and get there? And so it was really good to hear my mom, who I view as such a strong woman. And like she did this and she also is telling me,

how she felt the same way and she was kind of like talking about how it was hard for her to understand her own emotions postpartum and like all those things and in that moment it was really good because I think you also got to hear a conversation and

And you got to like, I don't know, what was that like hearing that conversation? It was really sweet. It was really sweet to have your parents there. They came at the perfect time. They really did. They really, really did. And it was sweet. The nurses were very helpful because I know you were very emotional. And the nurses came in and were consoling you a little bit. And I was consoling you as well. It was hard not to be embarrassed in that time. I also want you to see my perspective too. Yeah, I was going to ask, what's it like for a dad to watch movies?

their wife go through like a hormonal breakdown. I'll be honest. It was really hard. Yeah. Because not only was I trying to take care of you, but I was also trying to take care of our baby. Yeah. And so I'm like, look, I know how important it is for Abby to breastfeed right now. I know it's really, really...

special to her and she wants to do this, but I also got to make sure that my baby's getting fed. And so when he wasn't latching and there's lots of crying and just, it was not a good situation. I just wanted our baby to be fed. And I'm like, I know that formula is not the end of the world and we'll probably just do some formula and then our kid will eventually figure out how to breastfeed.

but in those moments I was like, man, we just need to make sure that he's being fed. Cause it's cause with all the screaming and crying and the intensity of the situation, it wasn't helping you. It wasn't helping our son. And so that's why I did suggest formula. But then to you, that was like, wow, he doesn't care about the breastfeeding journey. He doesn't care about me. He doesn't care about my baby because breastfeeding is the best thing for my baby. So I think from your perspective, me suggesting formula was like, wow, he's,

he's the enemy when really I was just trying to do the best thing for you and our son in that situation. Yeah, and I get that now, but...

I think in that time, everything just felt different because of hormones, like the intensity of the situation. We actually had to stay at the hospital an extra day with our first son because of the breastfeeding situation. I think a lot of new babies come out and they don't understand. I think both of our babies were just not patient because my milk hadn't come in yet. Neither one of them really cared about colostrum. Well, they're a Howard and Howards eat a lot of food. Yeah.

Well, so does... And so does... So does Mama. So does Mama. We eat a ton of food. And so our kids are just hungry. And so they weren't getting their food immediately. You see how fast I eat. I'm a very fast eater. Like, colostrum is very thick. And it's like, there's not a lot of it. So then... And they're like, what the crap is this? They're like, we just want to guzzle. They're like, I don't want a little snack. I want a full course meal. What the crap is this? I know. So I think both of our kids were just frustrated as heck because they wanted to eat a lot. Because it takes like three days. And your milk wasn't like...

It wasn't pouring out like it is now. Now, oh my gosh, like you have so much supply. We literally have four gallons of frozen breast milk in our deep freeze. Yeah. I don't even know. I don't know how that's possible. That's insane. You deserve an award. Okay. I have studied this because also I was like with our first, I was like blaming myself. I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm making myself have too much milk because I'm

There are things you can do to like kind of change how much milk you're making, like change your supply. But there's also, it turns out there are some people that are just over suppliers. And I think that was, that's me. So yeah, not blaming myself this time around. You do have crazy supply. And I thought it was funny. I think there's a lot of,

differing opinions on the use of nipple shields. If you guys don't know what a nipple shield is, it's like this silicone little shield that goes with your nipple to help protect your nipple and it makes it easier, I would say, for the baby to latch. And so you've had a lot of success with those. You used a nipple shield the whole entire time you breastfed our first son, Griffin. By the way, this is not medical advice. We're not doctors. We're just regular people talking about regular stuff. What's worked for us. What's worked for us.

But you brought that up. The lactation specialist heard you mention the nipple shield and she was very hesitant about you using that. Both of them. Both of them were. And I get it. I understand like in the medical field, nipple shield's probably, it's probably ideal to not use it and just to breastfeed, you know,

regular nipple out, no shielding the nipples, no nipple protection. But for you, it's worked. And so it's like, can we just freaking use the nipple shield? It works for you. I guess there's a concern there that it can limit your milk supply. But I'm like, look, dude, we got a milk machine over here. The pediatrician actually suggested using it then. That was funny when we went to the pediatrician. Because it slows the flow. Yes. And so it's like, there's just so many differing opinions on everything with that. And so it just kind of just...

What field of thought do you align yourself with is what you have to go with. And so for me, I'm just at this point where I'm like, I need to align myself with whatever is the path of least resistance while my emotions are still so high and my baby's still so new and figuring out the world so much. I'm like, I'm just going to make things as easy on us as possible because –

It's already like a stressful enough time. Totally. That's how I feel about it. But yeah, I knew that you... To the core, we had the same goal. It was just so frustrating that we couldn't find the same means to that goal. And...

I couldn't express how I was feeling. And I also definitely couldn't listen to you express how you're feeling. So it was just a dumpster fire. Yeah. We were just at odds. That was the weirdest thing. It's like we both wanted the same exact thing. And it was so frustrating because I wanted to be the most at bliss. Yeah. Because it's like that's what you see in the movies, right? Like you see...

the husband and wife like have their baby and they're happier than they've ever been like happily ever after and then we were having our like worst fight of our life you guys i just want to make a psa for any husbands listening i'm sure there's probably not many because it's we're talking about nipples the people listening to this are definitely women for sure it's probably like 90 women listening to our podcast but i get that if you're a dude listening in

You gotta, and I wish I could go back and tell myself this, but you gotta just have the thickest skin when it comes to these conversations. Did I say anything that mean to you? It was pretty intense. I mean, it wasn't exactly what you were saying. It's how I was saying it. Because when you're like...

you know, yelling, you know, like that. I feel like it just really built up the intensity and it's just like, you got to really just like take a deep breath. But sometimes I'm not even yelling. It's just, you're very, very sensitive to my tone. No. Yes. I would say your tone can get a bit aggressive. Yes, exactly. Well, you're sensitive to my tone. Well, I think any person would. I think it's just very, I think...

And it's okay. Like, I'm not blaming you because that was it. What are they related to? After you have a baby, isn't it? It's like they said, I don't know if this is true, but like they said on Instagram, it's like you've taken 100 birth control pills for the nine months of your pregnancy. And then in three days, your body's down to, it's like taking nothing. I'm confused. But essentially, it's just this massive hormone shift. Yes, it's the biggest hormonal shift ever.

Anyone will ever experience. And we got this information from Instagram. So who knows if this is true. This is just like a random Instagram reel that popped up. But yeah, I think my advice for other guys is to have thick skin. Don't take it personally. Even when it like gets really hard, you just got to have the thickest of skins possible.

So, and I'm sorry. Oh my goodness. Because I said something and I immediately took it back. Because I said, because our argument got really, really heated. Let's not. Yeah. Let's not. Let's not even go there. You said things you didn't mean. I said things I didn't mean. And that happens. Yeah. And these like high emotional times. So. And we're going to, we're already coming out the other side. So it's great. Coming out the other end. Yeah. Coming out the other end. No, I'm kidding.

Ew. Sorry, that sounded gross. Okay, you've now gone through a C-section and a vaginal birth. Which one is more difficult? If you had to do it all over again, which one would you choose to do? There's no easy way out of birth is what I've determined. Like last time on the podcast, we kind of like,

thought that we had found the easy way, but it catches up to you. And there's unique challenges to both deliveries. Yeah. And plus, even within like C-section and vaginal delivery, there's such a range of what that can look like and those experiences can be. There's just really no easy way out. Like it's a challenging, refining experience. Yeah. But I will say...

Obviously, for me, the recovery has been the pain. There's pain either way. The pain came on the back end this time. And it's frustrating to be in pain at this point because now you have a newborn. And I needed a lot of care.

Yeah. When our baby also needed a lot of care. So it was super inconvenient. And I felt like useless. I was like, I can't take care of... Like you were having to do a lot of things with Augie. And I can do virtually nothing for my older son right now other than just like...

sit and talk with him and like I can make his food, but I can't put him in his high chair. And I can come and talk to him in his crib, but I can't take him out because I can't lift anything heavier than our newborn for six weeks at least. Your parents moving in with us has been our saving grace. Saved our life. It's saved our marriage. For sure. Like, can you imagine trying to do all of this completely on our own? Well, so many people do it and I know that we would have done it, but it's just made it such a...

a brighter experience. Yeah. Because like our son has, is thriving. Whereas like it could have been really hard for him to watch us be fully consumed and then no one's like paying attention to him. Well, here's an example though. So like last night, Augie was not sleeping. So I was up essentially all night long with Augie, got no sleep. I finally was able to get some sleep around,

5 a.m. I guess so I got like a good stretch well we had to wake up to feed him at 6 a.m. but I I ended up getting six hours which is like I can I can function on six hours yeah but to get those six hours of sleep I had to sleep until 10 a.m. and start my work day later in the day I'm also very privileged that I get to set my work hours with our line of work so I'm very lucky that I get to do that but what that allowed us to do is you got a full night's rest I got

You know, I've got six hours of night's rest. I got six hours too. I watched that six hours. We both got six hours of sleep last night. Because I still have to wake up and deliver the milk. But then since your parents are living with us, they were able to wake up this morning at, was it 6.30 or 7 a.m. with Griffin? I think he woke up at 7 today. Yeah. And so like we were both able to get sleep. And if it weren't for your parents here, that would have been one of us would have had to get. It would have had to been you. It would have been me because you can't get our son out of bed. You can't lift him up for the next day.

Four weeks because you're two weeks in. So it's six weeks total. And that's really hard. So they've been there. I can't even drive a car right now. So it's. Yeah. Tomorrow is the day you can start driving a car again. And I'm driving to my appointment. Is that frustrating? Yeah. But I mean, I'm mostly staying home anyway. So. It was funny. We were saying we were saying after the birth that it felt like we cheated birth.

Because it was so easy though. But like we went back in the operation room. Boom, our baby came out right away. It was truly a blissful experience. It was. It was so quick and easy right then. You were getting pumped full of drugs and feeling great. And I think I'm sure people, once they see our birth log, I'm sure by the time people are watching this episode, the birth log will be out. But we're just like, wow, this was so easy. Like the C-section is the way to go. But it's also very difficult because we hadn't yet, or you hadn't experienced

the pain of recovering for the next couple weeks. You also hadn't experienced the frustration of not being able to lift up your own son because... And might I add, I feel like the transition almost hit me harder hormonally. Really? Because I was...

It happened so fast. Okay. I think I was blindsided. Yeah. Whereas I wasn't blindsided because I had already gone through labor, like a long labor. With the first birth, you weren't blindsided. And then I was like, man, this was a journey. This was tough. But this time it was like, oh, we got the hard part done. Woo-hoo. And then it didn't hit me for a little bit longer because of just the whirlwind that it was and there was no challenge to it at that point. Yeah.

I don't know. I think it just hit me like a ton of bricks this time around. And also because I was like, man, maybe I'm just not going to get it this time. I got it last time, but maybe not this time. And I definitely got it. Sorry to interrupt, but it would mean so much to me. And I also know it would mean a lot to Matt. If you were to go to Spotify right now and stream this, stream the song.

Yeah, or download it. I guess you can download it. Download. You can like it. You can just listen to it, save it, all those things on Spotify. Falling in Love, Matt Howard. And just make sure you listen to him on Spotify because this song is really, really, really good, special to us. And it'll get stuck in your head in a really good way because there's some songs that get stuck in your head that it's like, okay, get this thing out of here. It's so annoying. This one has been stuck in my head ever since he played it for me two weeks ago. And it just –

Brings a smile to my face and it makes me feel things, but also doesn't make me cry. So that's great. Well, it actually does make me cry. Aw. It's just beautiful and you really gotta listen to it. I can't believe it's my husband. It sounds like...

Thank you. And you're hotter than Shawn Mendes. You think I'm hotter than Shawn Mendes? That means a lot. And he's a good looking man. I appreciate that. Stream it. You can stream my song on Spotify, Apple Music. And I think you can follow me on there too. If you guys want to follow along, I think I'm making a goal this year to release a single every single month starting now. So follow along and put out some more music this year and we'll see how it goes. I'm excited for this. I'm really excited. Write more songs about me. I'll write more songs about you. Yeah, I can do that.

And our kids too. Yeah. That'll be fun. That's very sweet. Thanks, guys. Now back to the episode. I know we decided between ourselves to not talk about having kids for the next two years. We need to just give ourselves some time to breathe and settle. And we didn't want to like really decide anything yet. But if we were to have another kid in the future, which again, we're going to discuss that in the future as a couple. We're going to reevaluate that. Privately off of the internet.

Off of the internet. Off of the internet, discuss that and figure that out. Which route would you choose? Would you choose to do – it's called a VBAC, right? Would you choose to do a vaginal birth or would you choose to do a C-section? Well, the reasons that we chose C-section this time will still be present for the future. Oh, true. So I would do the same thing over again. Shoulder dystocia, 100%. But okay, put all that aside, right? Let's pretend that the shoulder dystocia never happened. Which route do you think was –

a better experience, I guess, for you? Well, saying that I wouldn't have had a shoulder dystocia the first time. Yeah, like if you could choose if there was no shoulder dystocia, which one? I would do that. You'd do the vaginal? Yeah. You're kidding. I would still say C-section. Okay, I'm not you. I'm not you. But I feel like...

I feel like the C-section is easier, I think. I don't know. Maybe there's an emotional side I'm not seeing from you. You're about to make so many people mad again. I really hope I don't offend you. No, you are. I'm so sorry. If I offended you, I love you. Because neither one is even remotely easy. Of course they're not. They're not. Yeah, they're both very difficult. So I'm just saying I think that the way I felt afterwards. What I didn't see you go through though with the C-section was I didn't see you in so much excruciating pain that you couldn't even talk.

Because when you were in labor, um...

You told me afterwards that like, hey Matt, you know how I wasn't talking? You're like, I was in so much severe pain that I couldn't even make a noise. And that to me, that to me was like, holy crap. Like I've been in some pretty severe pain before. When I had my back surgery, there was a moment after getting my tumor removed where I had this crazy pain in my back and it was horrible. And I just started screaming and my mom was crying and like I was 12 and it was just like really scary because I was in so much pain. But I can't imagine being in even more pain than that to where you can't even make a noise. Yeah, I mean, I think,

Ideally, too, it's like if you're not induced and you don't need – like ideally you don't have Pitocin, which makes the contraction stronger and closer together. And I think the combination of being on full Pitocin with no epidural, I think that intensity of pain is something that I will not experience any other time. It seems like with a vaginal delivery, all the pain is up front. It's in the beginning and then it's like – There's still pain afterwards.

but it's nothing. Nowhere near what it's like for the C-section. But with the C-section, you have none of the pain of beforehand and it's just a slow drawn out. If it's scheduled. If it's scheduled, but it's the slow drawn out process after the fact where you're slowly recovering. Yeah.

Um, pain wise, would you say that you would take like completely disregard the emotional side? Would you say the pain is more manageable with a C-section than the pain of birth? Yes. Because it seems like what you're saying is the emotional side of a C-section is frustrating because you can't pick up your other kids and there's all these emotional ramifications that are hard to deal with. And the pain just lasts longer. So it's like, I'd rather it just be intense and shorter. I mean, it depends on- But it's more of a, it's more of a dull pain.

It's more dull than a full labor contraction or pushing out of it. What's that like with your body changing right now? Is it relieving to see your belly go down when you've had this massive belly for so long? It is. I think the C-section flap is something that I am kind of shocked by.

It's just like a little... I've never heard you call it that. Is that the term? I think that's what it's called. The C-section flap. Flap or pouch. You had staples in there. I thought that was really interesting that you literally had... I know, not everyone gets that. A lot of people do, I think, dissolvable stitches. So when I saw the staples... I think there's still dissolvable stitches in like... Inside of you? Internal layers, but not...

And she put staples on the outside. Yeah. That looked almost like barbaric. Just seeing your body with like a bunch of staples. It was so swollen. It was funny when we asked the nurse, we were like, how do they put those in? Is it just a staple gun? And she's like, yep. Yeah, it's pretty much just a sterile staple gun. I was like, great. Love that. They didn't hurt. They didn't hurt to take the staples out.

But is that relieving to see your body like change? And it looks like you're right now currently two weeks postpartum or I guess 13 days postpartum. You look like you're pregnant in the first trimester. Am I supposed to be flattered by that? I don't know. I'm just being honest with you. I don't know. We keep it real here. Yeah, I definitely still obviously am experiencing swelling and extra weight and my uterus is not even anywhere close to down to its normal size. So it is...

that it's like going down because the belly was such a barrier, but I am limited mobily because of the incision and like pain from that. So I feel like I'll be able to feel a lot better once I'm a little bit further down the recovery line. I'm probably botching this right now, but don't you have diastasis recti again where your like abs are separated? I'm pretty sure I do.

Yeah, you can see it. I probably sound like an idiot. I probably pronounced that. I think it's diastasis. Diastasis. Is that our best guess? No, no, diastasis. Diastasis? I don't know. I think, I'm sure both are wrong. It's an ab separation, but I got it with our first and I never got it healed before we got pregnant again. Yeah, so you have it again. Because I had a hernia surgery. How are your hernias feeling, by the way? Like, are they still gone? That mesh is still there? She said it stayed intact really well. Perfect. What shocked me about the C-section recovery, Abby, is...

All the bleeding that you had still, not from the incision wound, but from your uterus just like bleeding out. I think they have to clean everything out. Yeah. And it's like, I assumed with the first birth that that was all like more of your...

I guess I'm going to say... Like from the tear? From, yeah, your vagina tearing. And I thought it was just all this blood. But really, it's like your uterus internally is changing and shrinking down. And you've had so much blood coming out of there, even with the C-section. That shocked me. I wasn't expecting that. Yeah, I don't know why. I think early on, I thought that if you had a C-section, that didn't happen. But you still have to basically...

a period after you have a baby. Yeah. But like a long one because it's been two weeks and it's still happening. How do you like sleeping in separate beds? Because I know that in the beginning, you don't like it. You think I like it?

Well, because you're actually getting sleep now. Well, yes, but I like sleeping with you. I'm a very codependent person. Our fighting has gone down significantly since we started sleeping in separate beds. And you know why? Why? Because we're both getting sleep. We're not sleep deprived. Oh, yeah. That's the main. Okay. The two main things that made the first days out of the hospital and even in the hospital so intense and like why we were like just like warring with each other.

Keep in mind, we weren't the whole time. Like there were some really good moments. Of course. Yeah. Of course. But then the bad moments really stuck out because they were so intense. The highs and lows are insane. You have these really like elevated moments of, wow, this is so cool. We're parents to this beautiful baby. I love him so much. And then like two seconds later, it's like, and it's like, everything's going wrong. Like we're, our marriage is ending. This is horrible. Like it just, it's crazy how you have the most extreme of extremes happening.

Back to back. Kids bring that out of you. Yeah. Kids really do bring that out of you. But it was because of the hormones and the exhaustion. Because even after we finally got like a few hours of sleep, it felt awful.

Like, okay, wait, this is something we're going to make it out of. We're actually thinking rationally. So here's kind of how we are running our nights. Yeah. Because especially because I was recovering from surgery. Let's talk about that. So Augie and Matt sleep together. Yep. In our guest bedroom, which is also my office. In our guest bedroom. Yeah. Matt will come in and wake me up to pump every time Augie needs something.

To eat in the night. And then we give him a bottle of freshly pumped milk. Which we're pumping because that way- He falls asleep during a feed. Yes. So it gets him full fast.

And it also relieves stress of breastfeeding in the night, which now I feel like there wouldn't be stress of breastfeeding in the night. It's faster too. But it's just way faster. And yes, we both have to be up for it. But I feel like you would be up for double or triple that time. Well, because he keeps falling asleep nursing right now. Once he gets a little bit older, I feel like we're not going to worry about –

I feel like he won't have such a hard time staying awake, but he's just such a sleepy newborn right now. He'll just snack a little and then fall asleep. And then we would be getting up multiple, multiple times. And we have a slow flow nipple bottle so that he's like not getting a ton of milk. It makes him like really work for the milk that he's still able to breastfeed and use a bottle. So it's like the best of both worlds. But he eats a lot. He's been eating three and a half ounces and he's only, he's not even two weeks old. Yeah.

So that's crazy. He likes, he's a Howard. He just likes to eat. That's just who he is. But I'm glad that we did that. And that's what we did with Griffin. And I remember about a week ago, I was like, Abby, we need to move to bottles in the night because it'll be better for you. It'll be better for me. And it just doesn't make sense for us both to be up in the night drinking

Um every single time something happens so by sleeping in separate bedrooms Um when augie's restless and he's very noisy I can get up with him soothe him help him And if I if I go through a night like I did last night where I get you know Two hours of sleep once abby's up in the morning. I can then sleep in till 10 a.m And actually get rest. I think it's really good too because it's like he gets dad bonding time In the night and then he gets mom bonding time in the day. Yeah, and

Not that I don't see him throughout the night when I'm like pumping him with you guys, but I don't know. I think it's good for both of us.

To have like our time with him. Yeah, it was, I think where it gets really challenging is if you have two bad nights of sleep in a row. Like last night was really hard on me because the night before I was up till 2 a.m. working on the final revisions to our, sounds so stupid, but like to the music video we posted of my song and like our first memories. It's not stupid.

as a family, but I wanted the video, I wanted it to be perfect and I wanted it to be, the inspiration for that music video was really the movie Up, 'cause I loved the way that it made me feel like seeing the main character in Up go through all those big life changes and it just like, I cried watching the movie Up with you a couple weeks ago, 'cause I could just so relate to him

And it just made me really appreciate life. And I was like, I want this music video to do the same thing. I want it to really show the good and the bad. I wanted it to be representative of like the hard things in life and the best things in life all in one. So I was up really late just making sure that it was accurate and representing like all these elevated moments of having her baby and being so excited. But then also the really hard moments of being up really late at night and not getting any sleep at the hospital. And so- I feel like the hard moments-

make the best moments the best. That's true. That's what makes them the most... If you didn't have the bad, you wouldn't appreciate the good. Yeah. Right? And so that's why I feel like having kids has been the best thing in my life, but also the hardest. But I think when you experience bad things, you need to know that it's only temporary. It's like when you work out, right? I don't necessarily love...

the actual workout itself, but I love the way I feel afterward. Like it's challenging in the moment, but I go through a workout because I know like, hey, I'm going to get through this and I'm going to feel great about myself. I'm going to feel powerful. My oxytocin or dopamine, my dopamine levels will be elevated after this because I know it's good for my body. So it's like when you go through the challenging things in life, if you can just recognize, hey, this is going to make me a stronger human, I'm going to be better for this. And I can then appreciate all the good things more so.

It just puts it all into perspective. Yeah. I feel like the most challenging things you do in life are the things that will build the most confidence. Because it's like, this was really hard and I did that. And I feel like that is why like being a mom, like while it will strip you of confidence, sometimes it's also the thing that I'm most confident in. So it's like, I don't know, we're talking about like

People talk about mom shamers all the time. Yeah. And, like, while it sucks to be, like, to hear those things. And I feel like not, I definitely know that moms that aren't even on social media get mom shamed all the time just in their life. Yeah. You know, it's not just exclusive to social media. But that's why it's, like, those comments don't really, those just bounce off of me because it's, like, I do, I know that I'm a good mom. So it's, like, I don't.

Not that I will never like question decisions I make or things that I've done to be like, okay, I probably could have done this better. There's something I could have done here that like maybe I could handle this differently in the future. It's not that. It's not like blind like, oh, I'm doing everything perfect. But it's like I know my heart like I'm a good mom. Yeah.

Do you think I'm more attractive now that I'm a father to two babies? I don't know why, but it's like every baby we have, you just get sexier. Really? Yes. That's so funny to me. You don't think I'm sexier now? No, I do. I was going to say, people say online all the time that there's nothing weird or taboo about breastfeeding, but I think it's so sexy when you breastfeed our kids. Why is that? Does that make me a weirdo that I think it's so hot when your boobs are out and you're breastfeeding my baby? No, it makes sense, I guess. I think it's hot. But also...

How dare you? I'm just kidding. I don't know. I'm sorry. I think it's... I personally think it's hot for you. Like, I'd just like to check you out. I don't know. I don't know how to respond to this. I'm sentenced. You're seeing your wife, like, nude. But I'm fully supportive of, like, women making whatever choice they want to make as far as breastfeeding in public. Because I think, like, culturally, we got a little weird with that with, like, oh, it's okay for a guy to be topless in public, but it's not okay for a woman to. I think that's wrong. But culturally, though, like...

I'm call me call me a sexist or whatever but like I don't want my wife being topless in public personally I I hate to say that but like it's well it works out great because I also don't I guess it's just kind of how I was raised but at the same time morally though morally though I really do think that like if you wanted to be topless like it's like don't tell my wife what to do with her body you know like I feel I don't know I just kind of think that's kind of how I feel at the same time

I mean, I understand both things you're saying. Like for people to tell a woman- Good thing I don't want my boobs exposed in public. Like for instance, I don't like wearing shirts. But if a mother were to be breastfeeding in public, I wouldn't think anything of it. Yeah, but like in our culture, it's okay for me not to wear a shirt. I don't wear a shirt all the time on TikTok. But like if a woman- In some locations, most locations you do need to wear a shirt. I actually wear shirts a lot more now. I do. But like-

If a woman told me, Matt, you have to put a shirt on. If you were in a restaurant, you couldn't just take your shirt off. That's true. I'm not going to just take my shirt off in a restaurant. Yeah. Every, like feeding your baby should not be viewed as like,

something that is like taboo taboo and if you're a guy no matter how you feed your baby but yeah for me personally i'm more comfortable covered up but i think like if you're a guy and you're uncomfortable if a woman is like has her boob out like just look away you know in public i think they should always look away yeah no that's what i'm saying if they're just uncomfortable like i think it's just always respectful just to look away and so like true in those instances where like we were feeding griffin in public like on a plane especially yeah if it was like

- But in like a high intensity situation, I didn't care if I was covered up. Like I was like, I just want my son fed. And so I don't care if there's like, if 60 seconds where I'm exposed here, they're like, I just want him taken care of right now. And then once everything's calmed down, I'll get covered up for my own comfort.

Partially out of respect for the other people around me. They might not want to see that. Yeah. And so it was just a mutual thing. But it's like my first need will always be feed my child. Yeah. And I think in those instances, I like would prefer for other men to not see my wife topless. I think they should just look away. So I was just – but I think if you're a guy, you're not always aware of what's going on around you. That's true. Like I can't be fully aware of everyone around me on a plane. No, that's for everybody. That's not just for guys. So if you accidentally glance over and you're like, oh, I just saw this woman's boob. That's fine. Just forget about it and move on.

Go back to looking at your phone or your Kindle. So, yeah, I think in those situations, I definitely was... At that moment in time, trust me, I'm not feeling like super sexy. Like I'm just feeling like a mom that's meeting her child's needs at that moment. Yeah. Yeah, that's a heated debate. Honestly, you've just kind of cracked open. I really did. And I don't... And it's a very complex issue. I can see both sides. I don't want to like...

I don't know. My feelings on it are complex too. My feelings are just like... Ultimately, women should be able to feed their baby however they want to. However they're comfortable. Exactly. If I'm more comfortable covering up, then that doesn't mean that I am like... I don't know. I'm weird about it. Yeah. But it also just means...

I don't know. It's a complex argument. I can see, like you said, I can see both sides. Yeah, I think it's interesting. Like in some African cultures, I want to say like in different tribes, like women don't even wear tops and they'll just like feed their babies whenever. I don't...

I think Americans are uniquely weird about it. Yeah, we're very protective. From what I've heard. And I think it's kind of, it probably stems from like the Protestant roots of our nation. Like, I'm getting really deep. Bro, the Puritans came over here on the Mayflower and they're just like all, yeah, very, very strict and proper. I'm not going to start talking about history because then we're just, I'm going to get myself in a whole world of trouble. Can you believe that people? I start spouting off misinformation.

Jumping in here really quick to say that it would be awesome if you shared this podcast, especially if you shared this podcast with someone that you shared the podcast with the previous episode. I don't think that made any sense, but if you shared the previous episode with someone, make sure you've shared this episode also because it kind of goes

together and they might think I'm emotionally unstable. That's true. If they just listen to that one. And we left people on a cliffhanger with the episode about our birth story because we talked about having a fight, but then we didn't like explain what the fight was. And then this episode, we actually explained our fight, which was like pretty vulnerable. But we talked about it in a very appropriate way, I think, you know, still making sure that our marriage is like. We keep our privacy. We gotta keep our privacy. But we let you guys know that. But we wanna keep it real. Yeah, we got issues. Yeah, we got issues. Yeah.

But if you could just make sure that you share this episode with them too, they might be like worried that we're not okay. We're okay. We're okay. So share this so they know that we're okay. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Back to the episode. You can't laugh right now because if you laugh, it hurts. No, I know. I've been laughing though and it hurts really bad. I'm so sorry.

That's frustrating. I love a good laugh. I love to laugh. Yeah. Yeah, my dad was making me laugh and I literally couldn't. I was like, stop. Yeah. Griffin was making me laugh too and I was like, everybody knock it off. Stop being so dang funny. He's so freaking funny. He's just a whole... We just got his haircut the other day. Oh.

Oh, my handsome little guy. Yes, we both got our haircuts together and it was the cutest thing in the world. Poor memory. And we got this picture, too, of our two boys together last week. I've sent it to everybody in my contacts. Everyone in our family has seen it. And it's just like they'll have to recreate that photo when they're older. My milk just came in. Oh, no. What is that? My sister-in-law described it. Yeah, how do you describe that? My sister-in-law described it like a, oh, my gosh, it's happening. Sorry. Like a wind-up toy. We're like, oh, my gosh.

And that's exactly when she said that, I was like, you nailed that feeling. Oh my gosh. It's like cranking up a wind-up toy behind your nippies. Oh my gosh.

Okay, sorry. We're going to have to end this pretty soon. Yeah. Does that hurt? Does that hurt when it just all floods in at once? It's just a really tight pain. What's the difference between that when your milk comes in and then a letdown? Because those are two completely different things, right? No, they feel pretty similar. Oh, really? Yeah. So a letdown is like they open up the floodgates and all the milk just rushes out? It's like a tight feeling. Yeah. It's like, oh, I just want to be relieved. Okay.

And so that happens while you're breastfeeding, but then the... It can happen multiple times while they're feeding. Like you can have more than one. Usually there's like at least two letdowns for me. But does it feel like, does it feel like your body just like shot a bunch of milk into your boob? Like right now, is that what it just felt like? You just got a rush of... It doesn't feel like that. It feels like a tight, a tightness. Yeah. I don't know how to like adult, like a screw. Do you like having oversupply or does it get annoying that you have so much supply of milk?

in the beginning it's a little bit annoying but it really is it's a it's a blessing because yeah it's a lot of pressure to be the the main the sole source of food for your child so um it's good to know that we have like means if i need to do something what's your plan for your breastfeeding journey do you think you'll do six months i think i'm gonna plan to do a year

Shoot. I was hoping you'd say six months. I thought I was going to say six months. And then I was like, realistically, what am I hoping in my mind? It's your decision. But also I'm like, man, it'd be really nice to get to go on a trip together in six months. I could just pump. That's true. But I feel like when you do breastfeed, you definitely are more...

Locked down to a certain location for sure. No matter what, being away from your baby is not ideal at this stage. Like you just want to be with your baby because you've been with him for nine months. It's like being away. It's just like, oh, I think your heart. That's why my heart hurts so much.

so much sorry to interrupt my heart hurts so much for the women oh my gosh i'm gonna cry again it's okay most people have to go back to work in america after like six weeks yeah that is not right my mom did my mom did that with me and my brothers my mom did that my mom was a civil engineer

She was a boss. She was a boss woman. And that's the way it still is with teachers in most school districts. It's really nice, too, that, like, women... Because you're still... I mean, you've really been taking more time on. But I guess technically right now, filming our podcast, you're technically working right now. So it's nice that there are options. It's not the same. Yeah, that's true. I feel so... But, like, it's nice that there are options now for women to maybe, like, work part-time from home. And so you can still, you know, do...

a career and then be be a mom yeah um there's options for dads and options for dads like that too but you're right that would suck some people aren't don't have an option and it just is really sad there's so many people there's so many people in so many different circumstances and our hearts go out to you guys regardless of what your situation is i just think about like teachers they have to work up into the point where they're like literally about to pop yeah until they literally go into labor they work up to then that's on their feet all day with all these little kids and then

They go have their baby and then they have to be back six weeks later. But keep in mind, in that six weeks, they had to make sub plans for their sub. They're still worried about what's going on in their classroom because those kids are like almost like their biological children, too, because they're taking care of them all day. They have such a bond with them.

And then it's like, okay, imagine any other job where you leave and you still have to like do everything from afar like a teacher does. And how underpaid they are. It just makes me mad and so sad mostly. Our job is so weird and we are so privileged to get to work from home and work on the go. Like I say, that is why I literally am so thankful for this job. Like more than, oh my gosh, it just makes me cry because it's like this is priceless.

Yeah. This flexibility. And I never want to not acknowledge that privilege. What I do want to say though, and this is probably just something that self-employed people run into. I don't think in four years I've been on a vacation where I actually was just fully present and fully intentional on vacation the whole time. Because in the past four years, every single trip we've taken, I've worked every single, like pretty much every day. I don't think there's been a day that I didn't work.

And some days it was just a tiny bit. But I think it's really important to like completely unplug from your work. Especially with how your brain operates. Yeah, my brain is like all in, you know. So I want to do – I want us to take a fully intentional trip at some point in the next –

Six months. I don't know. Or we just completely unplug and like don't do anything but spend time together. And I feel like that'd be so good for our marriage. For sure. And we can we can do that. We can do that like in little increments. Like we can do a date night and like for two hours, like no phones, no talking about kids or work and just talk about us. But it would be awesome to do a trip where we're just like fully present, fully intentional.

don't you know just like fully focus on our relationship yeah it's super hard for me not to think about my kids though right now yeah which is I actually won't be able to do that it's the motherly instinct yeah I won't be able to do that like every time we're away from them I'm thinking about them yeah

Which is okay. That's totally okay. And I love, I love being a mom. Like literally changes your brain. Yeah. Oh my gosh, Matt. I have to tell you something really quick. Wait, okay. What's up? While I'm already crying. Okay. I was on Instagram and my Instagram knows exactly what to show me. And it was a mom and his son at a wedding and it was his first day or it was his mother, mother, son dance. The mom had the song, like they had the song picked out and then they switched it to the song that she sang it to him as a baby. And it was, you

He sang to them. And so, like, they were playing, like, a country song that was really sweet. And then all of a sudden it switched to You Are My Sunshine. And he just melted into his mom. It's like he became a baby. It was so sweet. And I was like, of course it had to be the same song that we sing our boys every night or, like, all the time. It was so sweet. And I was just like, I love having our boys. Yeah.

okay i'm done crying do you need to go feed do you need to go feed augie yeah i probably need to go feed him it's cute seeing him in that onesie because that's the same onesie that griffin used to wear all right it's like there's so many emotional things thank you guys for tuning into this episode we have some really exciting ones coming up in the future let us know in the comments if there's any guests that you'd like us to have on to interview it's really fun interviewing people i think it's awesome yeah i

I can't be this vulnerable every time. Yeah, seriously. It's not natural. We need to bring other people on this podcast to share their feelings. But no, I just think like naturally, like if I'm on an airplane, I like to talk to the people next to me and like learn their life story. And so I think it's so much fun to have people on. Literally yesterday, Matt, I was like, why are you following this person? He's like, I think I met them on an airplane once. But yeah, just go ahead and comment down below. But we'll see you guys in the next episode. And if you haven't already subscribed, hit the like button, you know, left a review. We'd really appreciate it.

And as always, three, two, one. Peace out, dudes.