213: What if they were murdered trying to protect you?
49:56 Share

This Is Actually Happening features real experiences that often include traumatic events. Please consult the show notes for specific content warnings on each episode and for more information about support services. Whenever your mind can't deal with such a traumatic event, it just kind of shuts down. It just got too hurtful to think of him in the ground and me still alive. I couldn't understand the meaning in it.

From Wondery, I'm Witt Misseldein. You're listening to This Is Actually Happening. Episode 213. What if they were murdered trying to protect you?

Today's episode is brought to you by Audible. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, or expert advice, you can be inspired to new ways of thinking. And there's more to imagine when you listen. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from their entire catalog. Currently, I'm listening to Daring Greatly by Brene Brown, a wonderful audio title that challenges us to imagine a new way to lead a

love, work, parent, and educate through the power of vulnerability. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash happening or text happening to 500-500.

That's audible.com slash happening or text happening to 500-500. This Is Actually Happening is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. What if comparing car insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite podcast? With Progressive, it is.

Just visit the Progressive website to quote with all the coverages you want. You'll see Progressive's direct rate. Then their tool will provide options from other companies so you can compare. All you need to do is choose the rate and coverage you like. Quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive.

Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Comparison rates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Hello Prime members. Have you heard you can listen to your favorite podcasts like this is actually happening ad-free? It's good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your Prime membership.

To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts. That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcasts to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. Check out our recently completed six-part series, The 82% Modern Stories of Love and Family, ad-free with your Prime membership. I was born in 1968.

I was thrown into a typical middle-class family at that time. One sister who was 21 months older than me. We grew up mostly on a block that was old people. We didn't really have a lot of kids around to play with, so we had to rely on each other for entertainment.

My dad was a welder, you know, being at work during the day, my mom staying at home with this. Both of my parents had mean tempers, heavy hands. I relied heavily on emotional support from my sister. I remember a big fight that my parents had and we hid in the closet. And I can remember my mom yelling at us to pack our things we were leaving behind.

That was the first fight that I remember my dad actually slapping my mom. You know, it seemed like my dad after that became kind of the bad guy. This is the person who is supposed to love and care for me and watch over me. And I'm afraid of him.

My dad was kind of a weird guy. He would walk into like a convenience store and he would stand at the entrance. He would just kind of case the joint is what he called it. I guess that was his way of making sure that the premises were secure. But I just kind of felt a little awkward. He always had to sit in a restaurant where he could face the door.

I was probably in the first or second grade. My dad lost his job and got laid off. So he had to find another job and he ended up being a security guard. So he became kind of absent. There was less of a shadow, a dark shadow over the home. It was like when he was gone, we were good.

Sometimes I would be sitting in the front room with my mom watching television. And if she saw my dad pull up, she'd say, just go to your room. Don't know what kind of mood he is in. So in case he's in a bad mood. So I learned to hide in my bedroom. Just the fear of my dad, this looming presence. So I kind of learned to hide, to escape from things that were hard to face.

My mom told me that I was an insecure child. I think that's where it came from, was seeking to be accepted or having that void field that, you know, my dad couldn't. I don't feel like I could rely on people in my life. Just having that fear of my dad and also not being able to make friends very easily was

It kind of caused me to be shy in ways. But then also, I remember trying to be this funny, goofy kid that made people laugh, you know, and that's what I liked about it.

I can remember my parents taking us to church. One of my early memories of church was that I got saved. I was probably about six years old because I saw all my peers doing this, so I wanted to be included.

One of the things for me was I found out that people were mean at a young age also. My mom was obese. I found out that kids would point and laugh, that they would tease me if they saw my mom, and that would be like another tool that they could use against me. So I really got embarrassed about going places with my mom and my friends seeing my mom.

I was in fifth grade. I was about 10 years old. My mom went back to work, and that's when the dynamics changed. This is whenever my dad started to getting abusive. It went beyond just mental abuse to like, you know, you don't do anything right. You can't do anything good. We'd clean our rooms. It wasn't good enough. None of our friends were good enough.

I started this paper route whenever I was probably about 11 years old. So every day after school, I had to come home and wrap these newspapers and walk my paper route.

One time that I think I was a few minutes late and he got mad at me because I wasn't doing it quick enough and I was already late. And the next thing I know, he's got me in a choke hold. And I can remember thinking, you know, I'm going to throw up or pass out. He finally let go of my neck and then, you know, told me to hurry up and get these done.

I was probably between 10 and 11. My mom found out she was pregnant again. And this was very unexpected. And so my dad just blamed her for the whole thing, that this was not his kid, that this had to have been somebody else's. And things between them started to get worse.

I was introduced to smoking. Girls would hide in the bathrooms in between classes and smoke. And pretty soon I went into popping pills and popping pills made me feel good. I also learned that I could lose weight. And, you know, growing up with a father who makes jabs and put downs at a mom who is very overweight and

It makes you realize that that's not something that I wanted to be. And I got to where I would just starve myself. I would take these pills and I wouldn't eat. I can remember me and my sister being in kind of a competition of who could be the skinniest. And that for me was a way, I guess, to also escape my dad.

One of the guys that I was really interested in at school, his name was Donnie. I kind of invited him over while my dad was gone. I was probably about 12 or 13. We were just kind of, you know, making out a little bit, talking. And then the next thing I know, my dad's pulling up in the front yard and my heart just sunk. I stood there thinking, we're caught, you know, he's going to kill me.

He had me standing in the backyard explaining where I was with Donnie. And the next thing I know, he punched me in the face so hard that I fell back against the ground. I mean, I just crumbled to the ground. And I think I might have gone unconscious for a few seconds. The next thing I know, he's picking me up by my foot. So I'm hanging out upside down, just dangling. And he draws me to the ground and

And he tells me now, pick yourself up and go inside and clean up. I mean, because I was covered with dirt after he's dragging me all over the backyard. I got to where I hated my dad so much, like the hate was just overwhelming. And I sometimes dreamt of ending him.

I relied heavily on drugs and alcohols to cope with all this stuff that was just falling apart in my life.

I was also kind of pressured into sex at a very young age. In the girls' bathroom, they would talk about the boys that they were with the night before. You know, that just sounded like something I could do to be included in that conversation because I felt like a lot of times I was an outcast. I feel like whenever I hit junior high, everything that I did was a cry for help.

And not having that circle of friends that I could really rely on, not being the popular girl, I started thinking of suicide. Like, who would really miss me at that time? I didn't feel like anybody would. I was down at this neighbor's house, and I was taking a knife, and I had just barely cut my wrist.

I thought I could do something that drastic, you know, just finish the job.

There was another time whenever I was in the ninth grade that I kind of arranged my mom to discover me. And I put on my ninth grade prom dress and I took a bunch of mixture of pills, drank a bunch of NyQuil and laid out on the bed and passed out. And the next thing I remember is her waking me up, asking me, what did you take?

She called this poison control center and I had to take that stuff that makes you throw up. It was heavily on my mind. Like, what would I do to end my life? It wasn't so much that I wanted to go through the action, but I wanted people to know that I was thinking about it because I didn't feel like I had a purpose for being here.

I didn't feel like I had any parental guidance or support because my parents going through divorce, I hardly saw my dad. It was like, I think every other weekend. By the time I was 16 years of age, I dropped out. I told my mom, I said, I'm not getting anything out of school. I don't want to go anymore. And so she signed me out of school and I dropped out.

Today's episode is brought to you by Quince. It's been a busy season of events and travel, and my wardrobe has taken a beating. A total overhaul isn't in my budget, but I'm replacing some of those worn-out pieces with affordable, high-quality essentials from Quince. By partnering with Top Factories, Quince cuts out the cost to the middleman and passes the savings on to us.

I love the Italian board shorts. They're made from quick-drying material and offer UPF 50 protection for all-day wear, so I can go from hiking to lounging on the beach without a wardrobe change. And compared to other luxury brands, the prices are well within my reach.

Upgrade your wardrobe with pieces made to last with Quince. Go to quince.com slash happening for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash happening to get free shipping and 365 day returns. quince.com slash happening

This Is Actually Happening is sponsored by ADT. ADT knows a lot can happen in a second. One second, you're happily single. And the next second, you catch a glimpse of someone and you don't want to be. Maybe one second, you have a business idea that seems like a pipe dream. And the next, you have an LLC and a dream come true. And when it comes to your home, one second, you feel safe,

And the next, something goes wrong. But with ADT's 24-7 professional monitoring, you still feel safe. Because when every second counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com today. It was April of 1986. I had dropped out of school.

My sister and her fiance at the time, Johnny, had moved into a house with two roommates, Robert and Robin, and they were planning to get married in August. I can remember going over there quite often and drinking and partying with them.

July 3rd was one of those days where I went over there. You know, we partied quite a bit that night. July 4th, we started our festivities early.

Robert's friends, Virgil and his cousin Forrest, had come over midday, mid-morning, and we ended up going over to this swimming pool. Virgil, I believe he had already started drinking and a little obnoxious, but he was

He was throwing the pool furniture around, which got us kicked out. His cousin, Forrest, was very quiet, very reserved, hardly said anything. But he just gave me kind of an uneasy feeling at that time. Once we got removed from the swimming pool, we went down on Riverside and watched fireworks there.

We went back. It was probably about midnight. I can remember continuing to drink. I know that everybody was kind of drifting off to, you know, their bedrooms to go to sleep. This friend from down the street had joined at some point and his name was Gary and

I can remember him kind of hitting on me a couple of times. He was divorced from his wife. He talked about his little boy. I remember at some point we went to the store to get some more beer. And when we went into the house, Forrest was laying on the couch. His cousin Virgil had left and everybody else had gone to bed.

So it was me and Gary and Forrest that remained up. I think Gary was going to take off. And then Forrest said, well, you guys got some beer. Let's drink some beer. And so we ended up over at the dining room table. And we sat there and had conversation. Forrest seemed pretty reserved and quiet up to that point. That was the first time that he had really been talkative about

Forrest had pulled me away from Gary a few times and he kind of came on to me saying, you know, you remind me of my sister. I feel really close to you like my sister. He did try to kiss me a couple of times at that point. He would move in to kiss me and I would turn or kind of put my hand up and I'd tell him, okay, it's cool. You know, at that point, I really got uneasy about him.

Forrest wanted us to drive out to the lake. Gary kind of whispered to me. He said, I really don't feel good about this guy. He said, you're more than welcome to come down to my apartment. No strings attached. I'll sleep on the couch. You can have my bed. I just don't feel good about leaving you here by yourself with him. You know, I said, sure, that sounds good to me because I kind of wanted to get away from him.

We were getting up to leave and, you know, we just kind of paused for a minute and he was standing with his back against the living area facing me. And I just happened to glance over Gary's shoulder and I just remember crying.

seeing Forrest charging across the living room into the dining room with his hand raised up. And I didn't see what he had in his hand. But the next thing I know, he swung it down at the back of Gary's head and he clobbered Gary on the back of the head. He put it down on the table. What I saw then was a hammer.

Gary just kind of crumbled to the floor and Forrest grabs me by the throat and was pulling me into the kitchen, which was right around the corner from there. And it just, my whole thought was that Gary was hurt and it didn't even dawn on me that he didn't care. I just kept on thinking, Forrest, you got to stop doing this. Gary's hurt. We got to check on Gary.

It amazed me at the time how easily he moved me with just his hand on my throat. At that time, I could hardly talk. I mean, I was more like squeezing words out. And I remember slapping at his hand, trying to get his hand off of me. And he just felt so strong.

He punched me in the face. And so I was kind of dazed. And at that point, I just felt like I was going to pass out. I felt like it was my dad all over again from the time that he had taken me into the backyard that just that punch in the face so hard.

I was confused. I was scared to death because I knew that he was either going to rape me or kill me or both. I had to figure out some way to get away from him. He was so strong and so big. And the way that he moved me into the kitchen and then shoved me up against this cabinet and just laid against me with his body weight, like this guy was

over six foot and 300 pounds easily. I slapped at him. I was trying hard to fight against him. And there was hardly any thing that I was doing that was helping the cause. You know, I was hoping that somebody would come around the corner and help me out.

And then Forrest brought a knife up to my face that he got out of this butcher block that was right next to us. And he said, I want you. I remember him punching me a few times. It seemed like he was hitting me to make me unconscious. I can remember making some noises, like maybe I was hollering. I yelled his name a few times, just trying to get him to say something else.

Then Johnny comes around the corner and I thought, okay, he's going to save me. I'm going to be okay. He reaches out and he grabs Forrest's hand and he says, hey man, be cool. And whenever he brings it down, Forrest just plunged a knife into his stomach. And I can remember seeing that Johnny's look was

It was just almost like he disconnected. And Forrest just drug that knife across his midsection. And then it just came out the other side. All I can remember Johnny doing is grabbing his stomach and walking back out of the kitchen.

The next thing I know, I'm shoving Forrest as hard as I possibly could. And I ran after Johnny. I didn't even think about Gary anymore. I just had to get away from Forrest. And as I got to Robert's room, Robert is standing outside the room saying, what just happened?

I just followed Johnny. I didn't say anything to Robert. I was in such a panic. And I think my mind was just trying to deal with the whole situation and it just shut down. Like I could not think any logical thought past that point, just trying to make sense of what just happened.

Johnny had just laid down on Robert's bed and I grabbed him by the hand as hard as I could. I jerked him into the bathroom and propping Johnny up on this toilet and trying to get him to stay. And he was non-responsive. He was just holding his stomach. His eyes were just kind of rolling around in his head.

I kept on grabbing his face and saying, Johnny, you're going to be okay. We're going to be okay. And I kept on trying to shove his intestines back in his stomach. And I kept on thinking, if I can just get them to stay, you know, he'll be all right.

I can remember my sister coming up and knocking at the door and she's almost like whispering. I had to get up close to the door to hear what she was saying. I was like, is Forrest still out there? And she said, no, he's gone. He went out the back door.

So I unlocked the door and I let her in. I went out to the dining room and Gary was still laying on the floor and Robert was calling for the police. So I picked up the hammer that Forrest had hit Gary with and I started hitting stuff. I just started freaking out. It was like it was finally coming to reality what just happened.

I wanted to be outside. I wanted to be safe, but I was angry. I think that's whenever I was able to let loose of my anger that this happened. The police show up and I had the hammer still in my hand. And one of the police officers said, you've got to put the hammer down.

By the time the police got there and they got me to settle down and they got me to put the hammer down, I went into just crying, just pure shock. I went over to Gary and I rolled him over and it looked like he looked at me, but then his eyes just kind of rolled back in his head. And the police officer that was standing next to him said, ma'am, you're not going to be able to do anything for him.

As I got up, I put my hand next to his head and it was a puddle of blood. We stayed there actually until the ambulance showed up and loaded up Johnny and took him to the hospital. And then the police took us downtown and took statements. I was kind of afraid that we would be in trouble for some reason.

Maybe because underage drinking or whatever, but I was still very numb and tired. I hadn't slept. So I was still going on pure adrenaline. We went to the hospital.

At that time, Johnny's mom and his stepdad had come up there. And I think at first, everybody was kind of afraid to approach me. So I didn't talk about it a whole lot. They had been able to take Johnny into an emergency surgery. I remember just thinking that Johnny was going to be okay, that he was going to pull through.

They tried to find his source of bleeding. He was bleeding internally pretty bad. I don't even remember any more of July 5th. I don't remember eating. I don't remember any other activity than setting up in the hospital and just hoping that

When I woke up Sunday, July 6th, my mom had told me that they decided to take Johnny off life support. He just continued to lose too much blood, and so he had passed away. I was pretty devastated because I was pretty sure that the doctors could fix him and that he would be okay. Me and Johnny was pretty close, and...

For my sister, I felt really terrible because they were going to get married August the 23rd. And it was just so much guilt that I took on at that time.

I knew in the back of my mind that my mom had tried to talk to me about coming home and I wanted to stay there and party with them. My sister told me while we were waiting in the hospital that if I hadn't moved him, he wouldn't have lost so much blood. And so I took on a lot of guilt.

I remember my sister having to call all the places that they had already reserved for their wedding to explain that he had passed away. I kind of felt like she was this young widow already. They hadn't even tied knots and she didn't have that opportunity. And I took that away from her. Several weeks later,

Right after it happened, I just remember walking around, not feeling much of anything. I didn't want to talk about it. And it seemed like nobody approached me to talk about it. I think everybody didn't know what to say. So it was kind of like I was put out on an island, basically.

We went to Gary's funeral and his sister came up and kind of wanted details of what happened. And I told her he was trying to help me. He was trying to help me out of the situation and that Forrest attacked him to get to me.

After the funerals, I just, I wanted to put it behind me. But in the same time, I didn't know how to move forward from something like that. I know that there was a couple of times that we would go to the cemetery and just drink at his graveside. Whenever your mind can't deal with such a traumatic event, it just kind of shuts down.

It just got too hurtful to think of him in the ground and me still alive. I couldn't understand the meaning in it. You know, here I was a person that walked around thinking of suicide all the time, and I was the one saved. In September, I found out I was pregnant. And, you know, I was thankful at that time that I hadn't been raped.

And so this baby was not a product of that event. So I felt like there is some reason in the universe that I was given this opportunity, I guess, because I saw it as a new start. It was a chance to move from this horrible traumatic event and into something good and

You know, I had somebody else that now I was going to be taking care of. Something else big that I could deal with. At the point, I didn't know how I was going to do it, but I felt like this was a good chance to change who I was. I wanted to become someone else's.

I was probably about three months along. I knew it was Johnny's friend, David. And in the back of my mind, I thought this would mean a lot to Johnny. Me being with his friend, David, who he set me up with at one time. And I know it would just mean a lot to him. I told him, "I am three months pregnant with your child."

He just broke down and got all emotional. And he said, well, I'll help you. We can raise this child together. So we got a little apartment and started our life together. I had a baby girl, my first child, and I was amazed and overwhelmed all at the same time.

Having this baby, it made me grow up. It kind of helped me become more responsible. I did go back to work with my mom at a microfilm company. I felt like I was accomplishing something good. I felt like I was taking care of her and I was doing something good for once in my life.

This season, Instacart has your back-to-school. As in, they've got your back-to-school lunch favorites, like snack packs and fresh fruit. And they've got your back-to-school supplies, like backpacks, binders, and pencils. And they've got your back when your kid casually tells you they have a huge school project due tomorrow.

Let's face it, we were all that kid. So first call your parents to say I'm sorry, and then download the Instacart app to get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes all school year long. Get a $0 delivery fee for your first three orders while supplies last. Minimum $10 per order. Additional terms apply. Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co-founder of Angie. When you use Angie for your home projects, you know all your jobs will be done well. Roof repair? Done well. Kitchen sink install?

done well. Deck upgrades, done well. Electrical upgrade, done well. Angie's been connecting homeowners with skilled pros for nearly 30 years, so we know the difference between done and done well. Hire high-quality certified pros at Angie.com. Around 1989, I found out that I was pregnant again

My husband was a drinker and he also smoked pot. We fought and there was times when we got along great, but there was a couple of really good fights that we had that he managed to bruise me in a couple places. He blackened my eye one time.

I left and I went to my mom's. And then the next day, my mom would drive me back with baby in tow. I had anger issues and they would usually surface whenever drinking. I had a lot of anxiety. I started feeling just really disconnected. I struggle with my thoughts.

I can remember having panic attacks. I remember, I think I was at the bank and I had just pulled up in my car and I just froze because this person was standing up close to the entrance of the bank on the stairs and he looked pretty similar to Forrest. And at this time, Forrest had not been found. He was still on the run.

I didn't know if it was him or if it was somebody that looked like him, but I remember just panicking and not being able to move out of my car and just waiting until he left. I couldn't move. I really didn't notice my panic attacks until 1990 that I realized I was having anxiety and panic attacks later.

They caught Forrest up in Virginia in 1989, and I had to go to court. I was the sole witness of these two murders. And I had to remember everything that happened that morning three years later. And that was such a struggle for me.

A lot of the memories that I had from that time and before, I just shut out. I completely shut out anything that was painful. It was soon after Johnny's funeral that my sister kind of got hooked up with Thomas.

A lot of Johnny's friends at the time ridiculed her for being with somebody so soon after Johnny was, you know, put in the ground. A lot of things were said that were mean. And I just thought at the time, like, you don't know how a person is going to cope with this. And she needed some kind of comfort.

Our relationship was kind of strained, but as long as we were drinking, we had a great time. We could talk, we could party, we could cry about Johnny if he came up in conversation, but we tried not to think too much back because it was just too painful for both of us. Once her and Thomas fell apart, me and David started fighting quite a bit.

One day, we had had a huge fight, and I left with the kids. We went to my mom's, and I sat over there for a little bit. And whenever I thought everything had cooled off, I went back home, and every stitch of my clothing was thrown up against the front door. I couldn't even get in. He had totally emptied my closet and just thrown everything up against the front door.

I was not happy. I felt like trying to move toward sobriety, trying to move toward that fresh start. So I applied for a city job where I would be working in the permits department.

You know, nobody knew my past. Nobody knew what bad things I had done, what I had come from. So I was pretty happy there. I had become friends with a certain plumbing contractor over the phone. So we decided to meet up and just talk and have coffee.

I had somebody who would listen to me, somebody who I could be anybody with.

There was a time after work that we had met up and I had gotten into his car and we were sitting there talking and he leaned over to kiss me. And the next thing I know, my husband is jerking his car door open and pulling him out. And this whole time I look over and my son is standing at the front of the car, bawling his eyes out.

And I thought, he's witnessed all of this. My husband, after yelling and cussing, he grabs my son, hauls him back to the car, and screeches out of there. By the time I got home, he was already packing his stuff and loading up his car to leave.

I knew that I had crossed a line, but I was also relieved that this was the answer to get out of my bad marriage. And it worked. It was an escape from everything that connected me to Johnny. This was another way for me to get rid of that part that I didn't want to belong to anymore.

As soon as David moved out, I felt free for the first time in a long time. My sobriety had happened shortly after the divorce. In my mind, I kept on moving forward to this fresh start. It meant that I had to face some of the things that I hadn't dealt with.

After I got clean, I wasn't dealing with as much anxiety. I felt more clear-minded that I could think better. I started seeing a therapist. I started diving into working out, going to the gym. I hadn't worked out in a couple of years, and I figured that I would take up running.

I would just run and I would pray and I would talk to God and I would mostly wrestle with things that I didn't understand. Like, why did I have to go through with this? Why did you give me a father that was abusive and that was very distant, didn't love me? I wrestled with, does God love me?

There wasn't a whole lot of answers that I got back, but it just felt like God was teaching me to pray, teaching me to surrender. In this time that I was running, I thought I was just exercising, and I was actually learning to surrender to God. He was literally ripping everything from me.

the guilt and just the pain of remembering these things that I had held so tightly onto that was not beneficial for my spiritual growth.

I remember at those times that there was a lot of anger that surfaced and a lot of it came up of my dad. I would just question God about giving me a family, a father that was so angry, that was so hateful and abusive. Questioning God about, you know, who he makes your parents. Didn't get a lot of answers, but I got angry.

healing. I received his peace. You know, we're not going to have the answers on this side, but we can have peace. After I had my daughter in 2007, I'm starting a new family with a new husband, and I had my second set of kids.

There were a lot of things that were resurfacing for me. I didn't know really honestly what was going on, if it was postpartum depression. I just know that I had a lot of baggage and that I had started drinking again. I didn't want to repeat those old habits.

I knew I needed to get reconnected into church, and I absolutely fell in love with the church. I liked the pastor, met several people that were just really nice and welcoming. So I felt like this was a church that we could really connect to. And that's also where I found the Christian Counseling.

They had a place called the Hope Center. So, you know, I got this new fire and I wanted to start serving, wanted to work in the church, do whatever I could to be involved and to be included in this church.

The Christian counseling was also very helpful because I'm getting this introduction to this whole new world where people were accepting and friendly and just part of the body of Christ. And it was a great feeling. I had to forgive things that were in my past wrong.

One of the hardest truths for me in all of this is that we all fall short of the glory of God. We're all broken. I have done a lot of things through my life that I have hurt other people. Maybe I have not even recognized it. I know I hurt my sister. I've hurt my mom for some of the things that I used to do after she divorced my dad. I put her through all kinds of hell.

Knowing that we are all broken and that we all commit sin in our lives hurting other people, I think it's easy to forgive other people when you think, "I would want to be forgiven."

The first time that I was actually thinking over what I would say to him face to face, it just became very easy for me to say, Forrest, I forgive you and know that he's fighting his demons too.

We found out some things about him while we were having to testify in court. He came up in a broken family. His father was also very abusive. So he didn't have a good start either. I just keep on thinking that our reality is that we are in a very broken world.

I felt the same way about my dad. Even if I didn't personally face-to-face tell him that I forgave him for all of these things, God knew my heart. And so it was more for me than it was them. It was a freedom that I would feel even if they didn't know.

And it is such a release and it is such a weight taken off of your shoulders whenever you are able to let go of those past hurts.

I struggled forgiving myself for a very long time. In fact, I held on to some of the things that I wasn't getting answers for, and I didn't realize that I was still carrying that weight.

I know that I buried a lot of that stuff that happened to me early on. And I would just say, don't wait so long to seek some kind of help. Time isn't always a healer. Years and years can go by and you're still going to feel that trauma.

Shortly after it happened, sometimes it felt like it was just that day or the day before. It took a long time for me to be able to move away from that.

I was walking with a friend one day and I had kind of told her over not full details, but what had happened that morning. And she told me, she said, well, honey, it's not your fault what happened with Johnny.

There was a little detail that we found out whenever we went to court and was testifying that he had planted knives all over the house. Forest was planted there. He had a plan in mind to take somebody alive.

It doesn't make sense that Johnny would have passed away anyway. But if I hadn't been there, it might have been Holly. Either it was me or my sister. I can actually count myself blessed that I am a survivor, that I didn't let this thing be the end of me.

I am a new creation and this doesn't identify me. None of my past is what identifies me today. I think the hardest part for me has been how it has affected everybody that was involved. I mean, nobody walked away unscathed. My sister, especially.

I was able to pick myself up out of the ashes and dust myself off. But I somehow feel like I kind of left her. I feel like she didn't want to move away from that, that one day. I think as much as I've changed, I wish we were closer that she would be able to see the person. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

that she would be able to see the person I am, that it would encourage her to do the same. I know that God has his timing for everything. I just wish it hadn't taken me so long. It wasn't an overnight process. It was many, many years before

I don't have all of the answers that I need, but it was well worth it because I have actually changed to a person that I can feel good about.

Today's episode featured Haley Ross. If you'd like to reach out to Haley, you can contact her at K-A-T-T-A-N-N-I-E at yahoo.com. That's K-A-T-T-A-N-N-I-E at yahoo.com.

From Wondery, you're listening to This Is Actually Happening. If you love what we do, please rate and review the show. You can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the Wondery app, or wherever you're listening right now. You can also join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app to listen ad-free. In the episode notes, you'll find some links and offers from our sponsors. By supporting them, you help us bring you our shows for free.

I'm your host, Witt Misseldein. Today's episode was co-produced by me and Andrew Waits, with special thanks to the This Is Actually Happening team, including Ellen Westberg. The intro music features the song "Illabi" by Tipper.

You can join the This Is Actually Happening community on the discussion group on Facebook or at ActuallyHappening on Instagram. On the show's website, thisisactuallyhappening.com, you can find out more about the podcast, contact us with any questions, submit your own story, or visit the store, where you can find This Is Actually Happening designs on stickers, t-shirts, wall art, hoodies, and more.

and more. That's thisisactuallyhappening.com. And finally, if you'd like to become an ongoing supporter of what we do, go to patreon.com slash happening. Even two to five dollars a month goes a long way to support our vision. Thank you for listening. Wonderland.

If you like This Is Actually Happening, you can listen to every episode ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Across America, BP supports more than 300,000 jobs to keep our energy flowing.

Jobs like building grid-scale solar energy in Ohio and producing natural gas with fewer operational emissions in Texas. It's and, not or. See what doing both means for energy nationwide at bp.com slash investinginamerica.