Murder in the Hollywood Hills - Ep. 3: The Girl with the Hibiscus Tattoo
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If she doesn't tell...

The roommate. That she's going off to meet somebody and this is what she's wearing. This case never goes anywhere. If another woman who'd been recently propositioned by a photographer hadn't called a tip line and provided police with a description of a possible suspect, detectives wouldn't have had a sketch to show the public. This man approached me and he looked normal. If a parole officer hadn't noticed the sketch looked a lot like one of her parolees...

The detectives wouldn't have known who to investigate. He had only been released from prison on January 20th, 2003. So, yes, one month later and a week after Christy vanished, the detectives got lucky. They had a suspect, but they still hadn't found Christy. And luck rarely holds for long.

It was extremely frustrating, especially since some time had elapsed. We weren't sure if she was alive. We were hoping that she was alive. In this episode, you'll hear about disturbing similarities. The mall, the man, Bond film auditions, and more women. I was watching the news one morning, having a cup of coffee, and the story was on, and there was this drawing of someone, a composite,

And I recognized him immediately. You'll hear how a laptop computer discovered during a routine search turned up some chilling evidence. There were shots of women with the long-sleeved white shirt, a tie, a short black miniskirt, nylons, and stiletto black heels.

And you'll hear about the gruesome discovery in an exclusive neighborhood of L.A. Her hands had been bound, her body stuffed in a sleeping bag. Police say she's been there a while. I'm Keith Morrison, and this is Murder in the Hollywood Hills, a podcast from Dateline. Episode 3, The Girl with the Hibiscus Tattoo. Twelve days after Christy Johnson disappeared, they held a vigil in Santa Monica.

As roughly two dozen heavy-hearted souls gathered outside a big Episcopal church that Thursday night, feelings of hope and dread seemed to hang in the air like an unresolved cord. Twelve days, still no sign of Christy, and though there was also no proof that she was dead, Christy's mom seemed...

somehow reconciled. We wanted to do something as a memorial to Christy's life at that church in Santa Monica. That's Terry Hall, Christy's mom. The chief of police and the captain of the Santa Monica Police Department did come to visit me, and they said that they really felt that Christy was probably not alive.

While family, friends and supporters were lighting candles and singing in Santa Monica, Detective Virginia Obenshain was 11 miles away in West Hollywood, searching an empty building. Her latest stop on a trail of leads. It was a trail that began with the sketch police released based on the description Susan Murphy had given them of the man who'd met her at the mall and invited her to a Bond girl audition.

And then a parole officer called in to say the sketch resembled one of her parolees. She said his name was Victor Palaeologus, 40 years old, white male, about 6'2". In law enforcement jargon, the guy was a 290, which meant he was a convicted sex offender. So then detectives did a computer search and discovered he was already in jail. Mr. Palaeologus happened to be in custody.

February 17th?

That was just two days after Christy Johnson disappeared. It was possible, it seemed unlikely that this paleologus would be their suspect, but when detectives showed the mugshot to Susan Murphy, she said she was 100% sure that was the man who invited her to a Bond audition. And here's the thing, according to the parole officer,

Paleologus had listed 980 La Cienega on parole forms as his address. 980 La Cienega was just steps away from where Susan Murphy and her boyfriend said they confronted the man. The detectives figured if Susan Murphy had been asked to come to that location, so near to where Paleologus was supposed to be living, well, maybe Christie had been taken there too.

It was a two-story multi-use complex. There was a restaurant downstairs, which once was owned by Paleologus. And his apartment was on the second floor, and it was an old dance studio. What did you find there? Oh, he had different pamphlets and mail and stationery from the Century City Hotel. And then downstairs in a basement, we found his items, and among them was his laptop computer.

Okay. What was on that? There were shots of women with the long-sleeved white shirt, a tie, a short black miniskirt, nylons, and stiletto black heels. Were they like porno shots or more glamour shots? I would say they were kind of soft porn shots. Okay. But the very same costume that he had Susan Murphy wear, the very same costume...

that your missing girl apparently was asked to wear. Yes. As Obenshain conducted her own search, the forensics people picked away at every possible surface, looking for some kind of evidence that would show Christy had been there. Even dogs were brought in. Maybe they could detect Christy's scent. But no, there was nothing. Nothing there that tied Christy Johnson...

to Victor Palaeologus. You have to realize that was 20 years ago, over 20 years ago. DNA was not what it is today. And plus, if a person wears gloves, you don't normally get the fingerprints. And so, the very next day, Detective Obenshain decided it was time her investigators had a chat with Victor Palaeologus, who, at that moment, was cooling his heels at the Men's Central Jail

So we sent officers, or my fellow detectives out there, to go pick him up and bring him back to the station so we could interview him. But there was a problem. Somebody at the jail had evidently tipped off Palaeologus that the Santa Monica police were on their way to talk to him. Because once the detectives from Santa Monica arrived at the jail...

Victor Peleologos could not be found. He was down in the laundry area and he asked a couple of the inmates to switch wristbands with him and said he would give them $5,000 each. It was a matter of life or death. Well, we all know that there is no death penalty for auto theft. No, indeed. But clearly there was something he wanted to avoid revealing, himself especially. Correct.

Clearly an act of desperation. One of the detainees from whom Peleologos tried to buy a wristband was a 5'5'' Hispanic male. Not someone that anyone would ever confuse with a 6'2'' Peleologos. But desperate men sometimes do desperate things. What I'm showing is a photograph of Mr. Peleologos and he wrote under the picture, Este es el...

meaning that this is the person that asked me. What did you think when you heard about that? That was probably about as good an admission of guilt as I could get. Well, true, except that alone didn't prove anything. Did not prove Peleologos had ever met Christy. Did not prove he made her disappear. So when Victor Peleologos finally took a seat in the Santa Monica police interview room that night...

Detective Obenshain was hoping for another stroke of luck. Maybe he would confess or implicate himself in some way. But she was pretty sure he would not want to admit anything to a woman. So Detective Obenshain asked two male detectives to do the honors and she would watch the video feed from another room. I sat back as my partners interviewed him. I did not want to give Victor credit.

another opportunity to try to manipulate a female. And I wanted him to feel comfortable talking to a male, but I wanted my partners to be able to control the situation of the interview or the interrogation rather than Victor trying to control it by me being in the room. Do you really think he would try to do that with you? I think he would. Virginia Obenshain was in her late 40s when I first met her.

But she still had the blonde hair, the blue eyes, and sunny disposition of the prototypical California girl. A career in law enforcement had always been her dream job, though the nuns in parochial school told her it was off-limits for little girls. I remember distinctly

Going to Catholic school and after summer, he came back to school and the nun asked, you know, Johnny, what do you want to be when you grow up? And he says, I want to be a fireman. And then the girls were, I want to be a nurse. I want to be a teacher. And then they asked me and I said, I want to be a policeman. And she said, you can't be a policeman. I said, yes, I can. Good for you. And then you did. And I did. But it wasn't as simple as that, really.

Now, when it came time to choose a major in college, Virginia toyed with the idea of pre-med before settling on business administration. I was going to go into labor law, and at 26 years old, I said, it's now or never. So I quit my job and joined the police force. Wow, so it had been on your mind all that time. Yes. In her 19 years on the police force, first in patrol, then narcotics, then auto theft...

Virginia Obenshain had learned a lot about human beings. Some people were just not on the up and up and simply couldn't be trusted ever to do the right thing. And as she sat watching the video feed of the interview with Victor Peleologos, that conclusion never seemed more true.

I could tell that he was lying. He had that attitude of, I have no idea why you're talking to me. Where's Christy? We need to find her if we can help her. I can't help you. You knew he knew something, and he's not telling you. That must be awfully frustrating. It was extremely frustrating, especially since some time had elapsed. We knew that it was critical that we find her as soon as possible on the chance that she was still alive so that we can get aid to her.

In one particularly telling exchange, interrogators asked Peleologos why he tried to steal a BMW two days after Christy Johnson vanished. Well, he had told my partners that were interviewing him that he wanted to go to Mexico. As she watched Peleologos slouched in the small interview room, nonchalantly batting away her colleagues' questions, Detective Obachain knew she was looking at a criminal. The question was...

Was he a killer?

As Democrats unite around Vice President Harris, they'll gather in Chicago to endorse their presidential ticket. A new era is here. It is go time. Stay with MSNBC for insights and analysis. The race is going to be close. Everybody should prepare themselves for that. Plus reporting on the ground from the convention hall. Extraordinary levels of enthusiasm from Democrats for the fight ahead. The Democratic National Convention. Special coverage this week on MSNBC.

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The Men's Central Jail in downtown Los Angeles is a sprawling concrete complex that has all the architectural charm of a stack of Amazon boxes left on the front steps. It's the largest jail in the nation's largest jail system, one of the oldest. Inside, thousands of men crowd into spaces meant for half as many. No one would want to go there if they didn't have to.

But on the morning of March 3rd, 2003, a Monday, that is where Detective Virginia Obenshain had to be. Meeting her there that day was Susan Murphy, her boyfriend Mark, and the parking attendant who'd seen a man park Christy's sports car at the St. Regis Hotel the morning after she disappeared. This was going to be uncomfortable. The three witnesses would be looking at a live lineup. Sure, Susan had ID'd a mugshot, but

Picking the right suspect out of a group of six men all standing right in front of her and looking, by intent, vaguely similar? This would be certainly a more definitive test. But even before the six men were let in, Detective Obenshain sensed trouble. Generally, arranging a live lineup is a relatively straightforward proposition. But then, nothing seemed to be straightforward where Victor Peleologos was concerned.

I anticipated there would be a problem with this because he was growing his hair and he was growing a beard. And that's not how he appeared when he approached the girls. So I got a warrant, a search warrant, basically forcing him to shave his beard and cut his hair. I bet he didn't feel too good about that, did he? No, he was not a real happy camper. And so they take you into a room.

where there's a big window. That is Susan Murphy. I was terrified. I really was. Does it look like they can see you? It does. And they explained that the way the lights shoot up and the way the lights shoot down, that it makes it impossible for them to see you. It was a big room. Theater seating. The men in the lineup stood on a platform up front, and Paley Logus was third from the left. Like all the others, he was wearing a yellow jail-issued sweatshirt with a big numeral three on his chest.

His hair seemed to be mussed up, pulled down over his forehead, different from the composite and mugshot photos that had been used in previous photo arrays. You can get up and walk right in front of it to see. I didn't need to do that. I knew who it was immediately. And he was like disguising himself, like acting all weird and like trying to cut. And I just instantly like, what is he doing? And I, you know, I was like, that's the guy for sure.

He's like making weird faces and flat on his hair. He tried to look so different. I remember that thing. God, what a jerk. Susan's boyfriend, Mark, also identified paleologus as the man he had confronted in West Hollywood. But the parking lot attendant? Well, that was a different story. He picked a completely different person. He didn't pick Victor up. Does that end up sending you in the wrong direction or holding you up? No. No.

No, we had enough IDs from the other victims or potential victims. Other victims? Yes. By then, several other women had called the police tip line. Some were responding to media reports of a man claiming to be a photographer who had approached women at the Century City Mall. Some thought the composite sketch looked familiar. And a few had even picked Paleologus' picture out of a photo lineup.

But as Detective Obenshain stood there in the lineup room saying her goodbyes to the witnesses, she knew she had a problem. Without finding Christy, either dead or alive, she was in the unenviable position of having a suspect, but no crime to charge him with. It was about three o'clock that afternoon when she and another detective walked out of the thick-walled jail. They were standing on the sidewalk when both their cell phones suddenly lit up.

For more than an hour, officers had been trying to reach them, but there was no phone reception inside the jail. Thing was, said the caller, there was action in the Hollywood Hills. A little afternoon that day, hikers had spotted what they thought was a body 75 feet down a steep slope off of Skyline Drive. Three hikers were up in the lookout mountain area, and one of them walked a little further down the hill, confirmed it was a body.

and then found a neighbor and asked the neighbor to call the police. Back in the city room of the L.A. Times, reporter Andrew Blankstein was watching the breaking news on TV. So I remember very distinctly that the helicopter shot from above where the body was discovered. Andrew Blankstein is now an investigative reporter for NBC News. And then I remember...

having the conversation, getting a call, making calls with sources, first talking about that this is the body of Christy Johnson and then the suspect. Yes, by then the media knew all about Victor Palaeologus, though his name had not been reported yet. While Blankstein worked his sources within the LAPD, Santa Monica detective Obenshain was trying to figure out how she would get down the side of that steep hill to where the body was.

I wanted to get a closer look, but it was rather treacherous going down the side of the mountain. So they arranged to have the fire department send out a ladder truck, and they basically dangled me off the end of the ladder as they extended it. What do you do when you're up out on the end of a ladder? I mean, that'd be terrifying. You hold it together because I am terrified of heights.

But at the bottom of the ravine and off to the side in a neighbor's yard were about 30 news vans. And I said, oh dear God, I can't show my fear. It was dark by then and turning colder as the detective was slowly lowered down the slope to the place where a woman's body lay crumpled and partially wrapped up in a blue sleeping bag. Her hands were bound behind her back with a shoestring. Had to be her, but problems happened.

That month had been one of the wettest LA February's on record. The hillside was a slick, muddy slide, saturated by rain that would almost certainly have washed away any forensic evidence that might have been found on the body. And besides... She was decomposed from the shoulders up, so it was very hard to identify her. But the body did have the same type of tattoo that Christy had on the small of her back.

Oh yes, the tattoo. That scrolling, purplish, hibiscus tattoo. Well, there was no doubt in the detective's mind as to who it was lying in the mud on that cold, soggy hillside. It would take a while for the medical examiner to gather dental records and make an official identification. So in the meantime, Christy Johnson was toe-tagged. Jane Doe, 28. She was wearing a zip-up hoodie.

Underwear, nylons, and the stiletto shoes. Not the miniskirt? Not the miniskirt and not the shirt. Two days later, the autopsy made it all too obvious. Christy's death had been violent. Hands tied, ankles bound together. A scuff on one of the stilettos suggested her body had been dragged at some point. Her hyoid bone was crushed in, and she also had a radiating fracture of the skull.

Meaning what? Well, they couldn't really pinpoint how she got the radiating fracture, but we're surmising that her body, she was strangled and her body was dumped over the side of the hill. And she must have hit a rock or a log or something, perimortem. Perimortem. That means Christy Johnson was likely on the brink of death, but still alive when she was rolled down that hill.

There was no trace of her attacker's DNA. Not a bit. Not under Christy's fingernails and not anywhere else, for that matter. The wet weather had done its worst. As to time of death, now it seemed certain that Christy Johnson had died within hours of leaving her apartment to meet a man she hoped might make her a star.

As Democrats unite around Vice President Harris, they'll gather in Chicago to endorse their presidential ticket. A new era is here. It is go time. Stay with MSNBC for insights and analysis. The race is going to be close. Everybody should prepare themselves for that. Plus reporting on the ground from the convention halls. Extraordinary levels of enthusiasm from Democrats for the fight ahead. The Democratic National Convention. Special coverage this week on MSNBC.

Hi, everyone. I'm Jenna Bush Hager from Today with Hoda and Jenna and the Read with Jenna book club. There's nothing I love more than sharing my favorite reads with all of you, except maybe talking to the exceptional authors behind these stories. And that's what I'll be doing on my podcast, Read with Jenna. I'll be introducing you to some of my favorite writers. These conversations will leave you feeling inspired and entertained. To start listening, just search Read with Jenna wherever you get your podcasts.

Terry Hall was on a flight to New York when her daughter's body was found on that muddy hillside, scheduled to appear on some network news shows to raise awareness for Christy's case. So it wasn't until after she'd landed that Santa Monica Police Chief James Butts was able to deliver the terrible news. I will be a victim of Christy's murder.

for the rest of my life. That's Christy's mom, Terry. And anybody who loved Christy or knew Christy is also a victim of this murder. Christy's brother, Derek, was at work in an airplane hangar in North Carolina when he got the call from his dad. He just called me and just asked me where I was. Was I okay? Can you sit down, please? Because we have to talk.

He just took a deep breath and said that they found her body and that Chrissy's not with us anymore. And I think a lot of that stuff in those next couple days was really fuzzy.

The next morning, Police Chief Butts was on the network morning shows to say the police had a suspect in the Christy Johnson murder case. I want to give my condolences on behalf of the city of Santa Monica to Christy's parents. It's a very, very sad day for them. We are focused on a subject of interest that we feel has very strong links to both the incident that I talked about last time to the woman in January and to Christy Johnson.

Butts went on to say that though the suspect was already in custody on an unrelated matter, he had a history of assaulting women under similar circumstances. In one of the incidents that he was convicted for, he named the same specific movie production that he mentioned to the first witness and to Christie. And we purposely have not identified him because we don't name people that aren't arrested and charged. Chief Butts may have wanted to avoid publicly naming Victor Pediologos

But L.A.'s newshounds were undeterred. Reporters have sources and sources talk. There's an old detective that once told me that what police don't say is just as important as what they do say. Former L.A. Times reporter Andrew Blankstein. And this was one of those cases where they didn't say a whole lot. And I knew actually that said a whole lot, that this was a bigger problem.

bigger deal, not just because in some ways it fit this image of somebody who was young and naive and had big dreams and was killed, but this idea that there's just certain people that take advantage of that in ways large and small.

That night, 16 days after Christy Johnson went missing, two local TV stations broadcast a photo of Palaeologus. The next morning, the Los Angeles Times published his name. The cat was out of the bag. Now, a smart defense lawyer might be able to argue that future witnesses might be influenced by that unfairly. Oh, and there was a new witness the very next day.

But influenced unfairly? Didn't seem like it. I was watching the news one morning, having a cup of coffee. Christy Johnson being missing had been in the news for a while, a few weeks. Her name was Kathy DeBono. The story was on, and the photo that they showed of him was an immediate recognition of who he was. So Kathy called the tip line that very morning.

I just told them my story. Were you called down to look at a six pack, as they call it, at a bunch of photographs? Yeah. Yes. And when you saw that group of photographs, was it really obvious? Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. No question.

Kathy's story went back to the late 90s. She was a 28-year-old actress at the time. She'd had bit parts on a number of TV shows, recurring roles on Chicago Hope and the old Star Trek sequel, Deep Space Nine. Kathy was on the lookout for a new opportunity. And that, she said, is when she met the man police suspected of killing Christy Johnson. Where? Why, at the Century City Mall.

Just where Christie met him. It was the later part of 98, early part of 1999. What happened? I was there shopping by myself one afternoon. And I was approached by a man who asked me if I was an actor or a model. And I said, yeah, I'm an actor. And then I just stopped and waited to hear what he had to say. Which was? He told me he really liked my legs. I was wearing shorts.

And that he was working closely with the James Bond movies. And that he were looking for new people, people who weren't so recognizable to be in promotions for the James Bond movies, James Bond girls, posters, advertisements, promotions, things like that. Maybe a billboard even, possibly. Yes. Yeah. He talked about billboards. Sure.

That sounded a bit scammy, but at least plausible to Kathy. After all, she could look the part. Six feet tall, with long dark hair and the athletic build of the college volleyball player she once was, Kathy could see herself in the role of a Bond girl. He actually asked if I would sit and talk to him for a minute, which I did. And he wanted me to leave the mall with him that day.

and go take pictures at a colleague's house. He had a studio in his house who could take pictures right then and there and sort of get me submitted or get me started. He talked about big bucks. He named numbers of money that I can't recall today, but it was a lot of money. And I suggested that he call my agent and set up an appointment through her. What did he say to that? He didn't want to do that. He wasn't interested in talking to my agent. He

He started to make the argument that it was more money for me if I didn't go through my agent. She wouldn't have to take her cut. It would slow down the process, which, of course, was just a red flag for me. And anyone who asks you to leave a mall right then and there with them is a red flag. Yes, the warning lights in the back of Kathy's brain were blinking. But the man talked a good game and he didn't look like somebody who'd be dangerous. Was it like he was coming on to you? No. No.

No, he wasn't lascivious at all. He didn't try to touch me. He didn't try to flirt with me or come on to me. He was very businesslike, very professional. Describe what he looked like. He was about, I would say, 6'2". He was a little bit taller than me. I'm 6 feet tall. He was wearing a suit, a nice gray suit. He seemed like he could be legitimately in the business and...

talking to me about a real opportunity. So she was curious. What was this guy up to? And he went on smooth as silk as he rolled out his pitch. Then she asked him for a business card. He presented me with a business card that looked a little tattered, a little old.

And he told me I could look at it, but he would really like to have it back because it was the last card that he had. At this point, of course, I realized there was no real opportunity here. This was just some guy trying to rope me into something distasteful. The warning signals in Kathy's brain were blaring now. Still, she said she was intrigued by the man's audacity.

As the daughter of a New York City detective, she figured she'd maybe play along. Go to this photo shoot, see what happened.

I took down all the information on that card, and I did call my agent and give it to her and had her follow up and call that number. Did it seem legitimate based on that? Well, the person whose card that was called my agent back after she had left him a message and said, tell her not to go to this meeting. That is not me. I don't know who has my card, but tell your client not to go.

Whoa. Did you get that message before you were to have a meeting with him? Yes. That night, Kathy called her father in New York and told him what was going on. She asked if he thought the local police would go along with her, maybe as part of a sting operation. But her dad said no, no crime had been committed yet. Detective De Bono knew his daughter well enough to know she would probably go through with the meeting anyway.

So he cautioned her, do not go alone. I just felt like I wanted to catch him doing I don't know what, but I wanted to corner him. I wanted to catch him. Isn't that a little dangerous? Yeah, probably. Yes, it is. And I wouldn't recommend it. But I went and got a friend of mine who was a stuntman on the show that I was working on, a big, strong, tough guy. And I asked him to just come with me.

The next day, Kathy DeBono and her stuntman sidekick drove to an address in the Hollywood Hills where she'd been told the photo shoot would take place. So you took your friend with you. Yes. Grew up there. What happened? Nothing. Nothing? Nothing. I was instructed by him to wait in my car in an area of the block where he told me to park. He said, bring your car here, park here.

Someone will come out and get you, show you where to put your car, show you where to park your car, and then lead you to the house. And there you sat with the man in the car. Yeah. And nobody came. Nobody came. Do you think he was watching the car? My assumption is he was looking from somewhere and saw my friend in the car and just aborted his mission. A close call to be sure.

One that some other actress might have shrugged off as one of those things that can happen in Hollywood. Just part of the scene. But not Kathy DeBono. The experience stuck with her. And as you will see in future episodes, would lead her to study the mysterious Mr. Palaeologus. Learn who he was. Where he had been.

and then meet him again under circumstances very different from those of the Century City Mall. Next time on Murder in the Hollywood Hills. He grabbed me, pulled me by my hair, dragged me back to the bed, and I knew that this was it. He grabbed my neck with his arm and started to choke me. As reporters, we talk about falling through the cracks of

He was somebody that seemed to just kind of skirt the law. I'm not asking for anybody to take pity on me in this situation, okay? But at least let the facts come out before you make judgments, okay? Is that why you're doing this interview?

Let the facts come out. I've had a lot of issues that have happened in my past I'm not proud of. But I'm not going to sit back, okay, and let myself be steamrolled over on something that I haven't done. Murder in the Hollywood Hills is a production of Dateline and NBC News. Tim Beecham is the producer.

Brian Drew, Kelly Laudine, and Marshall Hausfeld are audio editors. Carson Cummins and Keanu Reid are associate producers. Adam Gorfain is co-executive producer. Paul Ryan is executive producer. And Liz Cole is senior executive producer. From NBC News Audio, sound mixing by Bob Mallory and Katherine Anderson. Bryson Barnes is head of audio production.